Speaker 1: I got atenments you projects. It's Tiffany and cooking. It's
Speaker 1: doctor Cam McDonald coming at you live from bloody Well
Speaker 1: to us live from Queensland, looking like some kind of
Speaker 1: covert operative who's just about to, I don't know, go
Speaker 1: and execute somebody or assassinate somebody. He's in a back alley.
Speaker 1: I'm not even joking. It looks like a back alley.
Speaker 1: He's got a hoodie on, tiff Can you describe what
Speaker 1: I can see for our listeners, perhaps with some more
Speaker 1: I don't know color.
Speaker 2: It looks like some sort of rambunctious, troubled youth that's
Speaker 2: up to no good, not at all, don't Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, why don't you tell us where you are and why?
Speaker 1: When you first started, I thought you were in your
Speaker 1: mum's buddy cupboard or something. But then I saw a
Speaker 1: bit of sunlight coming scrop. Where are you and why
Speaker 1: are you there?
Speaker 3: I like, I started making some very strange sounds on
Speaker 3: Friday m so I had to go take it into
Speaker 3: the service mechanic, and I also had an appointment down
Speaker 3: at the Gold Coast, and fortunately there's a train station
Speaker 3: right next to the mechanics, So two hours later I'm
Speaker 3: in Rabina Town Center. I've got Harps's podcast that's on.
Speaker 4: I'm currently standing next to a three twenty.
Speaker 3: Four to seven parcel locker because it's the quietest place
Speaker 3: that I could find, near the car park, near the
Speaker 3: bus station where I got off. This is how we're
Speaker 3: doing it.
Speaker 1: This is this is high level. But you know, here's
Speaker 1: the thing, as you quite rightly said, and you're fucking around,
Speaker 1: but you're probably half right. You're like, nah, And I said,
Speaker 1: are you okay to do this? Don't? And you went, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, I'm good. I was born for this. And
Speaker 1: isn't it so funny? How or so interesting? I guess
Speaker 1: is a better word that in the middle of what's
Speaker 1: obviously not an ideal situational circumstance where you could quite
Speaker 1: easily be distracted and perhaps I don't know, not want
Speaker 1: to do it, you go, well, fuck, all I'm doing
Speaker 1: is talking, So how hard can it be. It's just
Speaker 1: in a slightly albeit not ideal situation.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, I can talk in dark alleys,
Speaker 3: I can talk in front of people.
Speaker 4: I prefer talking and dark alleys.
Speaker 3: Actually it feels like it's more important. And I keep
Speaker 3: taking my head around the corner just to look a
Speaker 3: little bit, you know, look like I'm up to no good.
Speaker 3: But really we're trying to save the world here with
Speaker 3: this content. That's the irony of it.
Speaker 1: So when you learn launch your personal podcast, you can
Speaker 1: call it the Dark Alley with Doctor Cammick.
Speaker 3: Into the depths.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we go where the others don't. That'd be good,
Speaker 1: that'd be good. Yeah, tif, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm really good. I'm really good, smarty.
Speaker 1: When Monday you just went and had your shit rubbed
Speaker 1: by a bloke.
Speaker 2: It was the best? Yep, thank you.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I find funny about massages? People
Speaker 1: tend to love it or hate it. Like a lot
Speaker 1: of people like, oh fuck, I hate people touching me.
Speaker 1: I hate massage. I hate hands on my body. And
Speaker 1: then other people are like, oh yeah, Like I love massage.
Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a massage slut. I used to
Speaker 1: have one every week for like years. I'm like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and I haven't had one for a while, so I
Speaker 1: assumed maybely I should get some speech therapy and a massage.
Speaker 1: Are you a massage person? Camp?
Speaker 3: I love a massage. I have to say, though, if
Speaker 3: I leave it for longer than three or four months.
Speaker 3: I don't want to go back because I just know
Speaker 3: how painful it's going to be unwinding the things that
Speaker 3: I've wound up, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: So if you're getting a regular one, I'm right.
Speaker 3: Into that, but.
Speaker 4: I don't, so I'm scared of the most of the time.
Speaker 1: It's so funny, you know how we say, among other things,
Speaker 1: that emotion lives in the body and all that. One
Speaker 1: of my not that I've seen this person for a
Speaker 1: long time, but made of mine, was a masser. He
Speaker 1: is a massure and he would say to me, at
Speaker 1: least once a day, someone that is massaging cries, and
Speaker 1: sometimes out of control crying just because not because they're
Speaker 1: having a chat about anything, not because he pushed some
Speaker 1: kind of emotional button. But it's just when I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. Everything's I'm sure you can explain
Speaker 1: the physiology and the psychology doctor can, but there's something
Speaker 1: goes on where there's some kind of psychological emotional, physiological
Speaker 1: release and people just go on and even they don't
Speaker 1: know what's going on, but it happens right.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. I'd have to say that.
Speaker 3: I've had the fortune of being exposed to lots of
Speaker 3: weird and wonderful things in my life. It's if you
Speaker 3: were talking to a very conventional doctor, they probably wouldn't
Speaker 3: recognize it, and that's okay. But being in the world
Speaker 3: that I have, sort of mixing between both of those
Speaker 3: worlds without a doubt, And if we were to get
Speaker 3: down to it, if you have a stress response, a
Speaker 3: lot of that feeds into your fashion. There's a tension
Speaker 3: in your fashion, there's nervous system active, there's even physiological changes,
Speaker 3: organ changes and uh and well one hundred percent. There
Speaker 3: seems to be regions of the body that are associated
Speaker 3: with different emotional responses and different things that you go through.
Speaker 3: And I believe the link for us, if we were
Speaker 3: to investigate that further, would be in the fashia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fascinating tip. Have you ever felt like balling while
Speaker 1: someone's rubbing your ass or your hamstrings?
Speaker 2: Not in the massive ads, but definitely in yoga. That's
Speaker 2: happened to me twice, which is I guess similar like
Speaker 2: those back bends. They get right in there really, yeah,
Speaker 2: because it really opens up the front of your body,
Speaker 2: which I believe or maybe it's your hips or something,
Speaker 2: and that's where a lot of your emotions are stored. Twice,
Speaker 2: I've had an unexpected massive emotional breakdown in the middle
Speaker 2: of the yoga class.
Speaker 1: And did you what did you do? Did you try
Speaker 1: and fight it like a little fighter, or did you
Speaker 1: just I can go with it. Dr Luk at Doctor Cam,
Speaker 1: he's looking over his should he's about to get attacked.
Speaker 1: Can you please not die in the middle of the podcast?
Speaker 1: In fact, don't die in general, but really fuck up
Speaker 1: the show if you know you capitulated midcomb, especially once
Speaker 1: we're in. If you're going to die, die soon or
Speaker 1: just after the show.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I'll tell the hoodlums.
Speaker 1: Don't die it or we love you, go and tiv Sorry.
Speaker 2: Actually just remembered three times happened. First time was many
Speaker 2: many years ago in a Bickram yoga class. First something
Speaker 2: ever happened, and that was quite overwhelming, and I ended
Speaker 2: up rushing out of the class, which is against the
Speaker 2: rules in Bickerm yoga. It's like it's totty here. You're
Speaker 2: locked in. Nobody leaves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right I did.
Speaker 2: Second time was after I lost coaching my last whippet
Speaker 2: and I was in a yoga class. I stayed in
Speaker 2: there and just sobbed on the mat. That was beautiful.
Speaker 2: And the third time was in India when we recently
Speaker 2: went and Jem's partner she takes and we were doing
Speaker 2: some pilates and backbends, and it was after our first
Speaker 2: night there of all sharing our stories quite deeply and vulnerably,
Speaker 2: and again the little backbend and next minute just sobbing
Speaker 2: on the mat.
Speaker 1: I wonder what that's about, that particular movement for you?
Speaker 1: And did you when when you had it in the
Speaker 1: yoga studio after was it coach? When Coach died?
Speaker 3: Did you?
Speaker 1: Did you? Did you just fucking let it all out?
Speaker 1: And did anyone come up and go? Are you okay?
Speaker 2: They're very like I was. Well. I went with a
Speaker 2: client of mine, a friend and client, and she had
Speaker 2: said to the yoga teacher had ran into her walking
Speaker 2: coach once so that she had told her that I
Speaker 2: was coming and I was probably gonna be quite upset
Speaker 2: because I've lost that little doggie. And so you know,
Speaker 2: people just they hold space. That's beautiful like that and
Speaker 2: everyone understands. And I wasn't loud. I was just you
Speaker 2: could hear me sniffing and sobby and oh this is
Speaker 2: this is a good space to be held if I'm
Speaker 2: going to have a car I'm just because it's an
Speaker 2: emotion that it doesn't come from from your thoughts, like
Speaker 2: those the times when that happens, it's just you. One
Speaker 2: minute you doing yoga. In the next minute you're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: we're going to have a cry. Now. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: where this came from.
Speaker 1: Speaking of now this is a big left turn, but related.
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact term, but it's something like
Speaker 1: exercise induced orgasms. Have you ever heard of that?
Speaker 3: Cam?
Speaker 1: Have you heard of that?
Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of exercise is no?
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, this is real, Tiff, can
Speaker 1: you look it up. I used to train this lady.
Speaker 1: This is twenty twenty years ago, and she was quite strong.
Speaker 1: She was an athlete and whenever she would do hanging
Speaker 1: leg raisers.
Speaker 2: But ahak of those. And I'm not having the pleasure.
Speaker 1: No, But it's a very individual physiological And that sounds
Speaker 1: like I'm being silly and inappropriate. It's actually not. But
Speaker 1: it's something that happens, and it happens. It's like it's
Speaker 1: more common than you think. It's like maybe one in
Speaker 1: one hundred people or something.
Speaker 4: So is this instead of getting a stitch? Is this
Speaker 4: what happens?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, people literally, No, they're nicknamed orgasms because often they
Speaker 2: show up when you're doing call work, like crunches, planks
Speaker 2: and hanging leg raisers.
Speaker 1: There you go, hanging leg raises, and when she would
Speaker 1: do that, she would fall to around and go I
Speaker 1: can't and I'm like, you're right. She goes, and then
Speaker 1: she would be really embarrassed but kind of laughing and
Speaker 1: having the best time ever. I'm like, what the fuck
Speaker 1: is going on? And she goes. You cannot tell anyone.
Speaker 1: So here the park. I am on an international podcast.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Donna. No, that's on her, but yeah
Speaker 1: that's your Donna. Yeah, babies from Bo Morris. I hope
Speaker 1: you're doing well. It's been a while, as that's still happening.
Speaker 1: No it No, that's not who it was, but yes,
Speaker 1: it's it's a real thing. And so we had to
Speaker 1: get a work around so we could work her abs without,
Speaker 1: you know, without being too distracting for the rest of
Speaker 1: the members.
Speaker 2: Intrigued.
Speaker 1: What else does it say?
Speaker 2: There's ten to fifteen percent of women have had at
Speaker 2: least one that's probably more than who have had one
Speaker 2: with regular sex with their partner.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, isn't it. That's interesting? Wow?
Speaker 3: Well I wonder if the people that can have that
Speaker 3: are also the ones that are having it.
Speaker 4: With their partner.
Speaker 1: Oh good point.
Speaker 3: Wow to be the same population.
Speaker 1: Wow wow. Well, enough about orgasms and uncontrolled crying in yoga.
Speaker 1: We were going to talk today about intrinsic motivation. Dr
Speaker 1: cam I have I've talk about motivation more than I
Speaker 1: want to. I don't mean in this conversational kind of sense,
Speaker 1: but just in terms of it. You know, it seems
Speaker 1: something that comes up regularly in my work where people
Speaker 1: want to know, you know, how do I stay motivated? Craigan.
Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, this is not a quick answer. And
Speaker 1: when I get introduced as a motivational speaker, which I
Speaker 1: understand it, but I fucking hate that title. It's like,
Speaker 1: that isn't what I am, but you know, good intentions.
Speaker 1: And then I kind of have to explain in a
Speaker 1: nice way without sounding like a spoilt brat, why I'm
Speaker 1: not that and what I am, And then what I
Speaker 1: think the role of motivation is, and not only the
Speaker 1: role of motivation, but what motivation actually is like what
Speaker 1: is it? Is it a state? Is it a driver?
Speaker 1: Is it an emotional and or psychological experience? Is it
Speaker 1: a frame of mind? Can we generate it? Do we?
Speaker 1: You know? So when we talk about external or extrinsic
Speaker 1: and intrinsic motivators, what are we chatting about, doc, Well, I.
Speaker 3: Mean the thing that inspired it is I'm about to
Speaker 3: walk into a school and then they're running a program
Speaker 3: with the students where they already run a strengths based
Speaker 3: kind of program where they say, hey, you did this
Speaker 3: really well, congratulations on your strength, and then they put
Speaker 3: a little ticket up on the board, whatever it might be,
Speaker 3: and they now want to send it home. They want
Speaker 3: to get the educators to send it home to the
Speaker 3: parents so that the parents can see it as well,
Speaker 3: and so that there's a full get it around the
Speaker 3: child effect on that they're getting feedback from the school
Speaker 3: and at home consistently. And one of the things that
Speaker 3: came up was there's a couple of educators there that
Speaker 3: are a little bit resistant to doing this because they
Speaker 3: feel like telling a child, you know, good job their
Speaker 3: strengths whatever it might be, robs them of their intrinsic
Speaker 3: motivation because it's externally delivered, and it got me thinking,
Speaker 3: you know, everything, everything that's changing our state some sort
Speaker 3: of external input that we then develop into our internal
Speaker 3: motivation whatever it may be. We are constantly in reaction
Speaker 3: and response to the environment all of the time, and
Speaker 3: it's just started getting me thinking about, well, there has
Speaker 3: to be a useful input that still generates intrinsic motivation
Speaker 3: in an individual or provides the environment that it does.
Speaker 3: And it got me thinking about, well, what state, what
Speaker 3: physiological state does somebody need to be in to have
Speaker 3: more intrinsic motivation, And that sort of led me down
Speaker 3: the pathway. Okay, well, how a person will get into
Speaker 3: that physiological state is going to be quite different depending
Speaker 3: on the person that they are as well and so,
Speaker 3: and it all depends on from what I'm seeing, it
Speaker 3: all depends on the way that you are giving the compliment.
Speaker 4: But also there's another little layer in here as well around.
Speaker 3: The right compliment, the right strength can actually return someone
Speaker 3: back to the physiological state that then supports intrinsic motivation
Speaker 3: as well. And say, I was just I was fascinated
Speaker 3: to unpack that today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that is super interesting. I think more broadly,
Speaker 1: if we zoom out from praising someone or giving them,
Speaker 1: you know, only positive input, which of course is great,
Speaker 1: but to be able to give them, you know, all
Speaker 1: kinds of feedback, constructive and what some people might call critical,
Speaker 1: which I think critical gets misrepresented. Critical gets intertwined with
Speaker 1: hurtful or judge. I don't know, you know, it seems
Speaker 1: like it gets a bad rap. Well, let's know, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just thinking critically and consciously and strategically about
Speaker 1: what you're doing and maybe how it could be better.
Speaker 1: And me, who's maybe got a few more runs on
Speaker 1: the board. Did you just come across someone cam's glaring
Speaker 1: at somebody.
Speaker 3: It's a nice seven year old who has given me
Speaker 3: a weird look. So it's just not gave them a Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm good with oldies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you should maybe took the take the
Speaker 1: hoodie off, I mean the top it. But yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that we praise is good to a point. Like
Speaker 1: if a kid only ever gets praise and never gets
Speaker 1: anything but accolades and pats on the back and approval
Speaker 1: and you're amazing, I don't know that that sets them
Speaker 1: up well for life beyond the praise bubble agreed.
Speaker 3: I just don't think you'll find a child who's getting
Speaker 3: that life, And I think there is it is. I
Speaker 3: would say almost. I don't want to say impossible. Almost
Speaker 3: impossible to go through this life without the majority of
Speaker 3: the feedback that you're getting being neutral or judgmental. I
Speaker 3: would say there. And I would say there's a difference
Speaker 3: between praise and also supporting a person back into a
Speaker 3: state of safety. And I think that there's a because
Speaker 3: safety is a very important part of the physiological response
Speaker 3: that allows you to have intrinsic motivation too.
Speaker 4: Yes, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 3: If you're just giving phrase and like, no matter what
Speaker 3: you do, and here's a trophy for you know, falling
Speaker 3: over before you even stepped up to the sopper pitch
Speaker 3: type thing. Yes, I think that's where they're getting an
Speaker 3: undriden It's not leading them back to themselves. It's in fact,
Speaker 3: in painting a false picture. It's disconnecting from them from
Speaker 3: themselves even further. And I think that was the thing
Speaker 3: that really came across, is how can we return people
Speaker 3: back to feeling good in themselves?
Speaker 4: And from there there's some good things that happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there ever a time where we go people
Speaker 1: don't have to feel good about themselves all the time
Speaker 1: because it's not a normal human experience feel good about
Speaker 1: yourself all the time as opposed to self loathing and
Speaker 1: you know, self flagellation. But it's like, oh he feels shit,
Speaker 1: well he probably should feel shitited for a little bit
Speaker 1: because he did something shit. And this is this is
Speaker 1: part of being human. It's not to try to drag
Speaker 1: everybody out of every emotional hole they find themselves in
Speaker 1: and to make it better. You know, sometimes I think
Speaker 1: you know while still knowing, Hey, by the way, you're loved,
Speaker 1: We love you, but you fucked up, but we love you.
Speaker 1: That's that doesn't ever decrease or go away. But you're
Speaker 1: loved and valued and needed and wanted, but you did
Speaker 1: some dumb shits. So just sit in that.
Speaker 3: I love that. And that's That's a very important difference
Speaker 3: from projecting onto somebody and saying I'm in a bad mood.
Speaker 3: You've done something that's wronged me, you've made you've made
Speaker 3: me feel this way, and I'm doing this specifically to
Speaker 3: make you feel like with without that love attached. But
Speaker 3: then at the same time, presenting an environment where someone
Speaker 3: can find a boundary is really really powerful to say, hey,
Speaker 3: you cross this boundary and as a result, there's a
Speaker 3: consequence to this, and then they're allowed to respond or
Speaker 3: react with emotion to that. But it's this I believe
Speaker 3: that the state that someone's holding when they're holding that
Speaker 3: boundary is one of one of care and one of neutrality,
Speaker 3: allowing the response rather than trying to create someone to
Speaker 3: feel bad. I don't think you're feeling bad enough. I'm
Speaker 3: going to make you feel upset. That's that's not the
Speaker 3: that's not the way to do it. You know.
Speaker 1: One of the tough things I reckon about this doctor
Speaker 1: Cam and tiff Et l everyone else is that, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's like the people that are guiding the big
Speaker 1: people that are guiding the little people don't have their
Speaker 1: own shit together, you know what I mean, how many
Speaker 1: of us, including me at times, are fuck ups. And
Speaker 1: then you bring your own fucked upness into that situation
Speaker 1: where you don't realize just your energy and your words
Speaker 1: and your present presence and the way that you interact
Speaker 1: with that kid consciously or not impacts that kid. You know,
Speaker 1: So having this high level social and situational awareness and
Speaker 1: social and emotional intelligence, you know, forever around your kid.
Speaker 1: All that. I mean, that's I would think that's somewhat impossible.
Speaker 3: I would agree with a lot of experience around that.
Speaker 3: And all I'm doing is thinking about this stuff all
Speaker 3: day long. And then I've got the extra lens of
Speaker 3: specifically knowing the words that are going to affect my
Speaker 3: kid's genes the most, Like I have information on that,
Speaker 3: and I still find myself failing it daily, you know,
Speaker 3: And this is the and I just think about, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously I shared a few podcasts ago now about my
Speaker 3: subconscious clearing that I had, Like some of the baggage
Speaker 3: in my subconscious was from Mum, you know, like from
Speaker 3: my memory. And it couldn't be something that I've made up,
Speaker 3: but it could be Mum saying, no, don't give him
Speaker 3: a hug. He's in trouble to dad, you know that.
Speaker 3: And that's that's innocent. That's like, no, he's in the
Speaker 3: corner getting punished. But what I needed in that moment,
Speaker 3: my little soul needed some love. I mean, that's so innocuous,
Speaker 3: and so there is no chance.
Speaker 4: No chance.
Speaker 3: That you can't mess up that you can't bring your baggage.
Speaker 3: That you can't and you've just got to understand that
Speaker 3: that's part of the human journey. Like every single person
Speaker 3: is going to have something subconscious that's influencing their belief
Speaker 3: systems and you're going to be projecting that without even
Speaker 3: knowing it, and silently you can project it.
Speaker 4: It's fascinating.
Speaker 3: So this is why one of the big things that
Speaker 3: I'm going to do in this session is I'm going
Speaker 3: to take them through an experience of what it feels
Speaker 3: like to be in your happy, flow based, cared for
Speaker 3: state and how do you actually feel Do you feel passionate?
Speaker 4: Do you feel like you're actually motivated to do something now?
Speaker 3: Because if people can get an experience of that themselves
Speaker 3: and this is then they're much more likely to be
Speaker 3: able to pass that on. And probably I've heard Jordan
Speaker 3: Peterson say it before, but I've seen it in action
Speaker 3: many many times, and that is you know, it takes
Speaker 3: so few moments of a strength based complement and celebrating
Speaker 3: someone for who they are to completely change their day.
Speaker 3: Yet yet we don't do it as a culture. We
Speaker 3: don't we aren't specifically looking for how can I lift
Speaker 3: this person up. How can I make them feel better?
Speaker 3: How can I celebrate just who they are and tell
Speaker 3: them that they are enough just by being who they are.
Speaker 3: It's it's not in our normal vocabulary or our in
Speaker 3: our normal interactions. So there's such a powerful opportunity there
Speaker 3: to really raise that.
Speaker 1: How old did these kids stock?
Speaker 4: So the primary school?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: Primary school?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's right time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're forming subconscious patterns right now, and like to
Speaker 3: think that you can embed some really powerful identity of geez,
Speaker 3: me just being me is enough Geese. That's a that's
Speaker 3: a cool thing to amplify as you get older, because
Speaker 3: that is that. I don't know, I find very few
Speaker 3: people don't have some sort of story I'm not good
Speaker 3: enough for, I'm not worthy, Like is it just seems
Speaker 3: to be written into.
Speaker 4: Our experience.
Speaker 1: When is the time where you might say, with a kid,
Speaker 1: where you might sit down one on one quietly, Not
Speaker 1: that you want to do this every day because it
Speaker 1: becomes ineffective, but you know, it might be once a month,
Speaker 1: might be once a year where you just you identify
Speaker 1: patterns of behavior and patterns of communication and even within
Speaker 1: yourself that are problematic with your kid or you know,
Speaker 1: whoever the person is doesn't have to be a kid.
Speaker 1: But where you would say, can I chat to you?
Speaker 1: And then you just sit I don't know. You walk
Speaker 1: to a park, you sit on a bench and it's
Speaker 1: just you and a couple of trees and no phones,
Speaker 1: and it's thirty minutes, or it's ten minutes, or it's
Speaker 1: you sitting out the back of the in the backyard,
Speaker 1: but just where you step out of the busyness and
Speaker 1: the routine and the mania of a busy day, which
Speaker 1: is all of us. We're all ver busy, and just
Speaker 1: go I want to talk about this.
Speaker 3: It's interesting you asked that, and I've got a I
Speaker 3: actually think that that's it serves some people. Well, my
Speaker 3: son is a as were spoken about, he's a little connector. Ultimately,
Speaker 3: what that means is that what is happening in the
Speaker 3: moment is the thing that is in the moment.
Speaker 4: This is the thing that matters right now.
Speaker 3: And if I was to pull him aside for something
Speaker 3: he did two weeks ago, yes, he would just get
Speaker 3: lost in the conversation straight away. Whereas and so I'm
Speaker 3: finding that I need to consciously make that moment in
Speaker 3: the moment and I need to deal with it in
Speaker 3: the moment. However, there are like my niece and nephew,
Speaker 3: for example, have a very different makeup, very future focused,
Speaker 3: but also are a lot more logical and linear in
Speaker 3: their thinking, and they do well having a structured conversation
Speaker 3: about things, whereas I've just found that it's not even
Speaker 3: though that's my preference, it's not being successful with my
Speaker 3: more emotionally driven son. If I deal with something in
Speaker 3: the moments, hey, hey mate, quick one, how to think
Speaker 3: about this? And I have to say it in quite
Speaker 3: a specific way for him to grab it. I can't
Speaker 3: do the lecture thing. I can't do the explanation thing.
Speaker 3: I've got to get him to I've got to trompt
Speaker 3: a feeling out of him with a situation. How do
Speaker 3: you think that would feel? Do you think this would see?
Speaker 4: How do you think that would feel to them?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 4: So it's just different language.
Speaker 3: Whereas I can really with my niece and nephew, I
Speaker 3: can just break it down exactly the way that I
Speaker 3: think about it, and they grab it because their brain's
Speaker 3: a lot more similar to mine. So I think there's
Speaker 3: absolute value in it. It's the way and the timing
Speaker 3: of it. Will differ up for people.
Speaker 1: I remember, I don't know how long it was ago,
Speaker 1: Tiff might tell me five months or something ago. Tif
Speaker 1: and I had a bit of a rough patch for
Speaker 1: no logical reason, and it was just like we're both
Speaker 1: a bit fucked off at each other for nothing in particular, right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what it was. But I remember one
Speaker 1: day we had something of an emotional conversation which went
Speaker 1: from emotional to not emotional to just really healthy too.
Speaker 1: And I would say in you know, I don't know, Tip,
Speaker 1: was it twenty minutes on the phone or something like.
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember where it happened. I was out walking,
Speaker 1: and I don't know where you were, but I remember
Speaker 1: exactly where I was when they had we had a
Speaker 1: conversation and you're a bit upset and I was a
Speaker 1: bit upset, and there was a bit of miscommunication and
Speaker 1: misunderstanding and a few assumptions that were incorrect on both sides,
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah blah. I reckon since that
Speaker 1: one conversation, like, our relationship has been one hundred percent
Speaker 1: healthier than it was even before, don't you think ever? Ever? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like it's just like, oh, well, I wish I had
Speaker 1: that fucking conversation before, because this is not that hard.
Speaker 1: You know where I had to go. You know, I
Speaker 1: with this what I think this? She said, this is
Speaker 1: what I think and feel, and I went, this is
Speaker 1: what I think and feel. And we both went, ah, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't mean that, and I went, I didn't mean
Speaker 1: that and we both went ah, shoulder strug all right
Speaker 1: then or good?
Speaker 5: And it's I know that won't work for everyone, but
Speaker 5: for me that when you like just take a little
Speaker 5: bit of time and space and you're not hurrying, you're
Speaker 5: not doing it off the back of something else, or
Speaker 5: you're not rushing to somewhere or.
Speaker 1: With that in mind, what do you think of the
Speaker 1: idea of adults asking children for feedback on their performance,
Speaker 1: as in saying, your kid, as a dad, how am
Speaker 1: I going? What do you think I could do better?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: I know that's a you know, that's going to be
Speaker 1: a bloody nightmare, maybe or maybe not, because I would
Speaker 1: like to really understand what if I was a dad,
Speaker 1: what I am like through their eyes? Like what is
Speaker 1: the CRAIGIEXP into the dad experience? Obviously this is my PhD,
Speaker 1: but you know, what is it like being around me
Speaker 1: for them, not what do I think it is, but
Speaker 1: what the fuck actually is it?
Speaker 3: I don't know if they've got the language for it, right,
Speaker 3: I mean, and you cannot, I think, to get to
Speaker 3: get them to articulate something that you know that makes
Speaker 3: sense at an adult cognitive level, I think would be
Speaker 3: a stretch.
Speaker 4: There would be feedback that you could get on. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean, they're definitely.
Speaker 3: I mean from the experience, there's definitely to say, like
Speaker 3: do you feel like I'm listening to you all of
Speaker 3: the time? Do you feel like if you went in
Speaker 3: with some guided questions as to the types of things
Speaker 3: that we know is important just to the human experience,
Speaker 3: I think you could get some some good stuff out
Speaker 3: of that. The there's so much, there's so much consideration
Speaker 3: that's outside their sphere when it comes to being a
Speaker 3: you know, like the way that you manage emotions, the
Speaker 3: way that you put things to a side, or as
Speaker 3: a mother as well, like mums put so much to
Speaker 3: the side to you know, to be the mother and
Speaker 3: to be centered and to be balanced for the child
Speaker 3: and to forego things.
Speaker 4: So it's a really interesting question.
Speaker 3: I mean, definitely, I would argue that they're constantly giving
Speaker 3: that feedback all of the time indirectly. Yeah, I'm just thinking, Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a really good question. I think some kids would
Speaker 3: be able to do it quite well. There's some kids
Speaker 3: that are able to articulate their thoughts in a really
Speaker 3: powerful way. They're able to break down things with structure.
Speaker 3: Other kids are a lot more emotionally driven. Other kids
Speaker 3: will want to please you and will give an answer
Speaker 3: that you want. So I think you would have to
Speaker 3: ask the question specifically if you go on for a
Speaker 3: very specific outcome. What do you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would just be an interesting exercise.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I think different kids are going to
Speaker 1: give you different levels of you know, honesty from one
Speaker 1: of a better term and insight. And also I agree,
Speaker 1: you know, whether or not they actually to be able
Speaker 1: to one identify clearly what they feel or think and
Speaker 1: then articulated in a way that's meaningful is you know,
Speaker 1: another challenge. But I was thinking while you were talking,
Speaker 1: this my first real experience with this kind of interactive
Speaker 1: feedback and you know, kind of situational on social awareness
Speaker 1: and what am I like and what do you think
Speaker 1: of me? And all that stuff, was when I worked
Speaker 1: at sin Kilda Footy Club, which was a long time ago,
Speaker 1: and there was a dude called is still a dude
Speaker 1: called Ray MacLean who runs I think he still runs
Speaker 1: an organization called Leading Teams And sin Kilda was one
Speaker 1: of the first clubs back in the day to bring
Speaker 1: in an external contractor. And some of it was rough,
Speaker 1: where we just plugged a dude up the front, a
Speaker 1: player up the front, and everyone just went, here's what
Speaker 1: we think. And I mean some guys were good with it,
Speaker 1: some guys weren't good with it. Some guys, you know, understandably.
Speaker 1: And that's also, you know, to what you were saying,
Speaker 1: what will work with one person, which actually could be
Speaker 1: quite empowering and helpful, insightful and directive for somebody else,
Speaker 1: could be a comple complete social clusterfuck where it's just
Speaker 1: this doesn't work at all, and now I hate you
Speaker 1: and fuck off and don't talk to me. So that's
Speaker 1: the other thing. We're trying to apply one single idea
Speaker 1: or methodology or protocol to forty different athletes in other words,
Speaker 1: forty different human beings and thinking you might get some
Speaker 1: kind of consistent accuracy or feedback or you know, it's
Speaker 1: it doesn't work either.
Speaker 3: You have to assume amazing emotional intelligence. Like I know
Speaker 3: plenty of my friends if they got some really bad
Speaker 3: feedback from their kid, it doesn't miss them like it
Speaker 3: hits them, and it changed their response and there'll be
Speaker 3: defensiveness and they'll be justification and they'll come around to it.
Speaker 4: But you know, there's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that with the right lens you
Speaker 3: can check out the feedback that you're getting from your
Speaker 3: child all of the time, based on their behavior and
Speaker 3: various things like that. But yes, even in that situation,
Speaker 3: like we know that some individuals are much more geared
Speaker 3: towards the external perception of status and if they don't
Speaker 3: have it, it's it's really damaging and a lot of
Speaker 3: them so and that the same person is very future focused,
Speaker 3: so to be told about all of the things that
Speaker 3: are wrong with their past, the things that they've done
Speaker 3: in the past, that just plays on their mind. They've
Speaker 3: dropped their status. They're now having to focus on the
Speaker 3: past rather than thinking, well, why don't you just tell
Speaker 3: me what I can do better, rather than how I'm
Speaker 3: really bad, whereas somebody else loves that past orientation is
Speaker 3: very very open to feedback, isn't so worried about the
Speaker 3: status of things, and so it doesn't have the same
Speaker 3: impact on They can take a lot away from it.
Speaker 3: They're not so emotionally charged by the whole thing. So
Speaker 3: absolutely there's But at the same time, if you've got
Speaker 3: a if you're wanting to build a culture of we
Speaker 3: talk about everything and you know, then that's one way
Speaker 3: of going about it. But I would say that and
Speaker 3: even from the session that I'm thinking about later on today,
Speaker 3: is in order for somebody to receive feedback really well
Speaker 3: and grow, for someone to feel like this is a
Speaker 3: really good environment and I now want to get better
Speaker 3: and I'm now motivated, and it to be intrinsic.
Speaker 4: They have to feel safe.
Speaker 3: And so if a person is feeling incredibly threatened up
Speaker 3: the front, you need to have an incredible safety mechan
Speaker 3: around that situation so that they have time to process it,
Speaker 3: they have time to be caught on the other side
Speaker 3: of it, they have time to be you know, like
Speaker 3: to be then loved. I don't know if that happened
Speaker 3: at s and Kilda, but there needs to be a
Speaker 3: safe environment in order for healing to occur. That's why
Speaker 3: you need to sleep. That's why you heal when you sleep.
Speaker 3: That's why you're immune system comes on when you sleep.
Speaker 3: That's when you can't take a kid out of trauma
Speaker 3: unless you've actually got them into.
Speaker 4: A safe place.
Speaker 3: That's why psychological consultations they take you into that dangerous
Speaker 3: spot while you're in a safe place.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 3: And if you're now on a team and then straight
Speaker 3: away you're running out under the paddock afterwards and you
Speaker 3: haven't had a time to decompress, then you're out there
Speaker 3: thinking about what are these blokes actually think of me?
Speaker 3: You know, should I even kick to them? So it's
Speaker 3: an interesting one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, and in their defense, they were still very good.
Speaker 1: I mean they were very good, and they were really
Speaker 1: breaking ground, you know in this psychological, emotional, social intelligence,
Speaker 1: interaction awareness kind of space, and you know they're still
Speaker 1: around and they've really evolved, and it was for the
Speaker 1: most part, it was good. But even if you've got
Speaker 1: the best model or the best whatever, the best protocol
Speaker 1: and the best intentions, even now you know, you go,
Speaker 1: even with all we know now and everything, you're still
Speaker 1: you're still going to get some bad outcomes just because
Speaker 1: you're dealing with so many different human beings. When you
Speaker 1: go into something like today, what are the what are
Speaker 1: the outcomes that you want to get? Like? What are
Speaker 1: the intended out So when you talk to the teachers
Speaker 1: or the principal or whoever, it is like, what are
Speaker 1: we looking to get out of a day like this
Speaker 1: where you're spending with you know, some primary aged kids
Speaker 1: in terms of what we might see off the back
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's a group of about twenty educators and
Speaker 4: the leadership team.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I thought it was with kids.
Speaker 3: It is for the kids, right, for the kids, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: But regardless, the outcomes are actually the same even if
Speaker 3: this is happening for the kids too. The number one
Speaker 3: thing is they have to feel safety during the session,
Speaker 3: and that's generally I do some sort of visualization that
Speaker 3: takes them to a place where they can feel safe,
Speaker 3: and then I get them to talk about their experience
Speaker 3: to somebody else about that sense of safety and what
Speaker 3: it means to them.
Speaker 1: Can I interer up for one sec. Are you talking
Speaker 1: about the teachers need to feel safe or are you
Speaker 1: talking about when the teachers do this work with the kids.
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: No, yeah, I get the teachers to feel safe, right, right?
Speaker 3: And the reason for that is because you can talk
Speaker 3: theory and science at them the whole time, but they'm
Speaker 3: actually feeling. The thing that we're trying to get the
Speaker 3: kids to feel is easily the most convincing evidence that
Speaker 3: they can collect on the day. So we talk about
Speaker 3: the theory normally, I give them the experience first. I
Speaker 3: make sure that they feel something, because they get them
Speaker 3: immediate response, oh jeez, that is really nice. That does
Speaker 3: feel good. I do like that person and the effect
Speaker 3: that they have on me. That does make me feel
Speaker 3: better and more motivated and more clear. And so you go, great,
Speaker 3: have a chat to your friend about it. And then
Speaker 3: we explain some of the science as to why it
Speaker 3: happens the way that it does and why it relates
Speaker 3: to the thing that we visualized. So they go, okay,
Speaker 3: well that now makes sense. That gives them the principles
Speaker 3: then to say, well, how can I translate that to
Speaker 3: another person? And so by the end of it, they've
Speaker 3: already got a structure that is built of the way
Speaker 3: they're feeding these positive comments to the kids. What I'm
Speaker 3: looking to generate today is for them to say, holy crap,
Speaker 3: if we don't do this, it's negligent. You know, if
Speaker 3: we don't, if we don't really support these individuals and
Speaker 3: then get everybody in their life to reflect this stuff
Speaker 3: back to them. I mean, if we do it, it
Speaker 3: makes such a powerful difference. If we don't, then we're
Speaker 3: robbing them a little bit. And I want that sort
Speaker 3: of comparison so that when the logistics of hey, you've
Speaker 3: got to fill out this sheet and you've got to
Speaker 3: hand this sheet in at the end of the week,
Speaker 3: and you're going to be tracked by the head of school,
Speaker 3: like when all of that's liff comes around, I want
Speaker 3: it to be framed in a ultimately and intrinsically motivated
Speaker 3: place of I've got information, I know what it feels like.
Speaker 3: I actually want to do this for the kids because
Speaker 3: it's going to make me feel good, right.
Speaker 1: I want to be a contrarian for one minute, not
Speaker 1: because I necessarily. I definitely don't disagree with you. I
Speaker 1: agree with you, and everything you said makes sense. But
Speaker 1: I have a question that is a kind of a
Speaker 1: juxtaposition of that particular idea that you just shared. My
Speaker 1: question is, so we want people to learn, grow, evolve,
Speaker 1: be resilient, be able to deal with uncertainty. We want
Speaker 1: them to be able to adapt, deal with the unknown, essentially,
Speaker 1: cope with hardship, because life is hardship. Is it ever
Speaker 1: okay to create a situation where people feel unsafe? They're
Speaker 1: not unsafe, but they feel unsafe And this is part
Speaker 1: of the growing and learning and teaching.
Speaker 4: Understand. Give me an example that you're thinking of.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just thinking of like, you know, some times
Speaker 1: when I would train people, and I will train people
Speaker 1: hard as tiff nose, right, and it is not the
Speaker 1: most comfortable, safe, joyful, pleasant. It's all optional though, and
Speaker 1: I'd say you can stop any time, but I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say that. The experience they're having is I feel safe.
Speaker 1: Neither necessarily do I feel under imminent threat. But I
Speaker 1: just think that And maybe safe or unsafe is not
Speaker 1: the exact terminology. But I'm thinking, like we talk so
Speaker 1: much about resilience and being able to be the calm
Speaker 1: and the chaos equanimity, you know, dealing with all of
Speaker 1: these real kind of life experiences, the good, the bad,
Speaker 1: the peaks of troughs, a fucking ugly, the beautiful, Like
Speaker 1: we've got to deal with all of it, not just
Speaker 1: the peaks and not just the beautiful and not just
Speaker 1: the comfortable. But I think if we always train people
Speaker 1: in a comfortable environment, what happens when they step out
Speaker 1: of the comfort, when they step out of the safety
Speaker 1: and the known and the certain into the opposite? Have
Speaker 1: we prepared them for that?
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 3: So the thought that goes through my mind when you
Speaker 3: say that is the equivalent of uh, let's say stress,
Speaker 3: like they're going through stress when they're exercising really hard
Speaker 3: as opposed to the safety is a recovery space. Yes,
Speaker 3: So in my mind, what you're doing firstly you create
Speaker 3: well for me, straight up exercise, you become unsafe. Let's
Speaker 3: for the purposes of this experience, when you're testing yourself
Speaker 3: above and beyond.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: The safety environment then is getting enough sleep because that's
Speaker 3: where your recovery happens. It's eating enough food because that's
Speaker 3: where your recovery happens. And if you were to consistently
Speaker 3: miss sleep and consistently miss your nutrition, eventually that same
Speaker 3: environment that was tolerated but a little bit risky will
Speaker 3: now start to cause injury because there isn't a recover
Speaker 3: from that stress that's being placed on somebody. So if
Speaker 3: you're couching that exercise firstly in an amount that's appropriate
Speaker 3: a progressive overload, and then you're ensuring that they get
Speaker 3: an appropriate amount of recovery. Then that's that wrap around
Speaker 3: of safe environment to risk to safe environment again where
Speaker 3: the healing can occur.
Speaker 4: Because the only point of having.
Speaker 3: A stressful like the only the benefit of having a
Speaker 3: stressful experience is if there is some sort of recovery
Speaker 3: on the other side of it, that's where you learn
Speaker 3: about it. If you're just constantly under stress, you just
Speaker 3: constantly waste your body away, that's you see an ultra
Speaker 3: marathon runner. They're a shadow at the end of their
Speaker 3: one hundred cases. So the equivalent for me cognitively and
Speaker 3: emotionally is allowing someone to go into a space where
Speaker 3: they're challenged is great, and then collecting them on the
Speaker 3: other side and helping them learn and helping them recover
Speaker 3: and helping them grow from the experience is the gold
Speaker 3: I would I would say particularly for educators as well,
Speaker 3: seventy percent of them at a moderate or greater risk
Speaker 3: of depression and anxiety. I would say that they are
Speaker 3: constantly in the example of training without sleep, most of
Speaker 3: the time they are constantly feeling overburdened by life.
Speaker 4: They're feeling like.
Speaker 3: They're having to manage curriculum plus their workload, plus their
Speaker 3: duties to parents, plus the ever increasing needs of neurodivergence.
Speaker 3: And what that brings to the classroom as well is
Speaker 3: that they are constantly living in a less than happy place.
Speaker 3: They're often not being educated on how to eat well
Speaker 3: and sleep well and exercise well to recover those things.
Speaker 3: And so often my intention when I'm in a session,
Speaker 3: I agree with you one hundred percent that we should challenge,
Speaker 3: But most people I find don't even know how to
Speaker 3: navigate back to safety first. And so I guess a
Speaker 3: lot of the work that I do is about helping
Speaker 3: people find safety because heaps a challenge already in their life,
Speaker 3: they just handle it better once they know how to
Speaker 3: return back to safety.
Speaker 4: So that would be I agree, And I think you
Speaker 4: know perfect.
Speaker 3: Like the example you used before in a sporting team
Speaker 3: is you need the whole gamut. Like you need to
Speaker 3: make sure that you are challenging people with their training,
Speaker 3: you also need to be maximizing their recovery mentally and
Speaker 3: emotionally as well.
Speaker 4: So I agree, I agree, that's what came to mind.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because and this sounds like bullshit, but it's not.
Speaker 1: Literally this morning, I was at the cafe and I
Speaker 1: was talking to a guy who played about two hundred
Speaker 1: games of AFL, so, you know, very good, not a
Speaker 1: super duper star, but a very fucking anyone who plays
Speaker 1: five games to me as a hero, right, but and
Speaker 1: there's five games more than I ever could have played
Speaker 1: in anything professional, but so really good player. And we
Speaker 1: were talking about he's now coaching a team, and he
Speaker 1: was talking about how they went on the weekend. They won,
Speaker 1: but they were shit in the first half, and they
Speaker 1: got their shit together, and we're talking about dealing with pressure,
Speaker 1: and we both spoke about athletes that either we've played
Speaker 1: with him or coached me worked with, who were genetically gifted,
Speaker 1: who were skilled, who could run a fucking five K
Speaker 1: time trial in you know, fifteen or sixteen minutes, who
Speaker 1: could like they had all of these gifts and skills,
Speaker 1: but in the middle of a game, in front of
Speaker 1: you know, seventy or eighty thousand people at the MCG,
Speaker 1: they just couldn't deal with the pressure. So despite the
Speaker 1: fact that they had all of the physiological and skill
Speaker 1: kind of attributes they never really succeeded because they just
Speaker 1: couldn't manage their mind to manage their body. And this
Speaker 1: is you know, it's so interesting. And I think that
Speaker 1: even with like I've watched Tiff over the last two
Speaker 1: years go from being let's see, not terrified but not
Speaker 1: super confident in front of audiences to now where she's
Speaker 1: very skilled. Like it's the same woman doing the same thing,
Speaker 1: but the confidence and the capacity to form under pressure
Speaker 1: and freestyle and b in the moment and just deliver
Speaker 1: has really evolved. You know, like she doesn't have more potential,
Speaker 1: she has more skill, but she doesn't have better genetics.
Speaker 1: She doesn't act like everything's the same, except she's evolved
Speaker 1: in the way that she needed to evolve. And I
Speaker 1: think that that whole You know, whether or not you're
Speaker 1: a politician or an athlete, or a corporate speaker, or
Speaker 1: you building an organization and trying to change the world,
Speaker 1: you know, how well you can perform under pressure is
Speaker 1: almost the overarching determinants determinant of successful failure.
Speaker 3: I agree. I agree. And the reason that Tiff has
Speaker 3: got better, oh it has it was because she was
Speaker 3: putting herself in an uncomfortable place, and then recovered and
Speaker 3: then reflected, collected, put herself in a more uncomfortable place, again,
Speaker 3: reflected and collected, put it on. And it's that progressive
Speaker 3: overload which is really important. So I agree that controlled
Speaker 3: discomfort is a brilliant thing. It's what exercise training is
Speaker 3: all about. Like to make it the easiest analogy ever.
Speaker 3: So yes, it's the cycle of challenge and recovery, challenge
Speaker 3: and recovery where you can learn from the things.
Speaker 4: I think that for me is the key.
Speaker 1: Okay, two things before we wind up. I may have
Speaker 1: asked you these at some stage, but if I did,
Speaker 1: it was years ago. So I want to revisit these
Speaker 1: two questions that I sometimes ask new people to the show.
Speaker 1: Question number one is what is something that you believed
Speaker 1: that you don't believe anymore, or something that was really
Speaker 1: part of your teaching or your ideology or and you
Speaker 1: might have just changed the way you do it, or
Speaker 1: you might have done a complete one idea and thought
Speaker 1: I think now I don't think that anymore because I've
Speaker 1: got new information or awareness or knowledge. What's something that
Speaker 1: you've done a version of a one ad on?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that knowledge is the most important thing for me,
Speaker 3: Knowledge was the most important thing.
Speaker 4: That was my strength. I loved collecting knowledge. I loved.
Speaker 3: But now I know that it's it's the feeling that
Speaker 3: is created in people. For some it is the knowledge,
Speaker 3: for others it is But even on stage, like particularly,
Speaker 3: you know, I used to think, if I just feel
Speaker 3: my slides and just fill people's brains with content, then every.
Speaker 4: Of the world's going to change.
Speaker 3: And what I realized now it's the emotion that people experience,
Speaker 3: and it's the practicality of them being able to put
Speaker 3: into place and it you know, just the way that
Speaker 3: I explain things now is so basic because you just
Speaker 3: don't need the detail in order for people to feel
Speaker 3: it and then do it. So that's probably been a
Speaker 3: huge change. And I still see that in myself now,
Speaker 3: like I'll the first time I present new content, I'll
Speaker 3: be over I'll be overboard with the information that there'll
Speaker 3: be too much of it. That's still an old habit
Speaker 3: that I go into sometimes.
Speaker 1: All right, last question is two. Part Part one is
Speaker 1: what are you great at? Uh? And there's nowhere you
Speaker 1: going that you just have an awareness that you're very
Speaker 1: fucking good at that thing. And Part two is what
Speaker 1: do you need to be better at?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I know I'm great at going away collecting
Speaker 3: information and turning into something that's that's fun to listen
Speaker 3: to where people can get an insight from it and.
Speaker 4: Do it in a in a fun way.
Speaker 1: School. I like that school.
Speaker 3: And then the things that I need to be better at,
Speaker 3: I would have to say, discipline around routine really yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I get things done. I get things done, but it's
Speaker 3: more scattered than I would like it to be. So
Speaker 3: it's there is a really nice rhythm that comes from
Speaker 3: me being routined from doing the same thing, from tracking
Speaker 3: the same metric. But there's part of my brain that goes, yeah,
Speaker 3: let's do something different, and I just I just see that,
Speaker 3: and I know that if I stayed on the original track,
Speaker 3: then things will just move along with a little bit
Speaker 3: more ease.
Speaker 4: We still get there, but I know, I know I
Speaker 4: could be better.
Speaker 3: At that tip.
Speaker 1: How often or many times have you and doctor Cam
Speaker 1: been in the same room?
Speaker 2: Have we been in the same room camp?
Speaker 3: Have we ever? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, zoom rooms. Yeah, but you've never you've never met
Speaker 1: in person?
Speaker 4: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, I thought that well, doctor Cam.
Speaker 1: When you do bump into Tip one day, treat yourself
Speaker 1: to a boxing session with her. I think you'll enjoy it.
Speaker 1: All right mate, We appreciate you. Tell people where they
Speaker 1: can hear you up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just the best way to go is just
Speaker 3: search doctor cam and then the Shay Group, Shae Group,
Speaker 3: and then depending on whether you're a health professional and
Speaker 3: wanting to look at precision health and medicine, whether you're
Speaker 3: a corporate that's looking at well being, schools that are
Speaker 3: looking at precision learning, precision leadership, gyms that are wanting
Speaker 3: to personalize your membership experience. That's all of that can
Speaker 3: be found at the Shay Group website at doctor cam.
Speaker 1: Get the up. Butto cup all right mate, we'll say
Speaker 1: goodbye here but good luck for today and have fun
Speaker 1: with those teachers and we appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Thank you, appreciate it