Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: When the country's peak arts body, Creative Australia, decided to
Speaker 1: dump Australia's representative at the Venice Biinali. It's set in
Speaker 1: motion and existential crisis for the arts. The artist in question,
Speaker 1: carloor T Subsabi, was removed from the role just days
Speaker 1: after his appointment, following an article in a news Corp newspaper,
Speaker 1: a set of opposition questions in the Senate and a
Speaker 1: phone call from the Arts Minister Tony Burke. Now the
Speaker 1: boss of Creative Australia has faced questions about why he
Speaker 1: made the decision he did and whether there was ministerial interference. Today,
Speaker 1: chief political correspondent for a Saturday paper, Karen Bullow on
Speaker 1: the controversy at Creative Australia and what it means for
Speaker 1: artistic freedom. It's Thursday, February twenty seven. So Karen, let's
Speaker 1: begin in the Senate two weeks ago. Now, there was
Speaker 1: this very interesting hearing that really set this story in motion.
Speaker 1: So tell me about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So this has been a massive controversy for the arts,
Speaker 2: but it all goes back to this really intense moment
Speaker 2: in Senate question time on the last we believe to
Speaker 2: be the last question time before the election, we have
Speaker 2: the Tasmanian Conservative Liberal Senator Claire Chandler.
Speaker 3: Minister, Senator Chandler, thank you President.
Speaker 2: She's someone who's was previously known for campaigning against trans
Speaker 2: people in women's sport. She's got this arts portfolio, something
Speaker 2: that she got in the very recent opposition reshuffle, and
Speaker 2: she's aiming for a hit and she gets it.
Speaker 3: My question is to the minister representing the Prime Minister,
Speaker 3: Senator Wong. The Australian government funded organization Creative Australia has
Speaker 3: announced that Khaled Sabsabi will be Australia's artistic representative to
Speaker 3: the Venice Biennali. Mister Subsabi features the dead Hezbala terrorist
Speaker 3: leader Nazreela in his artworks, with such appalling anti semitism
Speaker 3: in our country. Why is the Abenese government allowing a
Speaker 3: person who highlights a terrorist leader in his artwork to
Speaker 3: represent Australia on the international stage at the Venice Bienali.
Speaker 4: Excellent, thank you, Senator Chamber. Minister will So.
Speaker 2: Where Senator Chandler got this information was a column was
Speaker 2: published the day before in The Australian this appointment had
Speaker 2: been highlighted, in particular the past work of Khaled Subsabi
Speaker 2: and Penny Wong is blind sided by this question.
Speaker 4: Border Border Senator. I wasn't aware of this until you
Speaker 4: asked me, and we'll get advice and I share your
Speaker 4: concerns about Hbella.
Speaker 1: And Karen the Venice Binali. That's an important event. Last
Speaker 1: year Australia actually won the Goldline Award at the Bnali.
Speaker 1: So being chosen for that role as Australia's representative is
Speaker 1: a big moment for any artist. But tell me about
Speaker 1: Karled Subsabi.
Speaker 5: My name is Karaled Subsabi. My practice is made up
Speaker 5: for many things and that's progressed over.
Speaker 2: He is renowned as being the first person of Islamic
Speaker 2: faith to win the Blake Prize for Religious art, and
Speaker 2: that was a very big deal at the time. He
Speaker 2: was born in Lebanon. He came to Australia escaping the
Speaker 2: Civil War in nineteen seventy eight. He is someone who
Speaker 2: looks into themes around Arab culture, dislocation and migration in
Speaker 2: his work.
Speaker 5: A lot of people almost missed the point of my
Speaker 5: artwork or the essence of what I'm saying in my artwork,
Speaker 5: because my work's been called extremist in the past and
Speaker 5: all sorts of things. Yeah, my artwork essentially is about
Speaker 5: humanity and commonality.
Speaker 2: So there's two works that have caused the greatest controversy.
Speaker 2: The work You is a video installation showing the now
Speaker 2: assassinated Hesbelalida with light shining through his face and hands.
Speaker 2: This is in the collection of the Museum of Contemporary
Speaker 2: Art in Sydney. And then there is the two thousand
Speaker 2: and six work thank You very Much, which shows thee
Speaker 2: the awful impact images from nine to eleven and it
Speaker 2: shows the then President George W. Bush right at the
Speaker 2: end saying the phrase thank you very much. And it
Speaker 2: turns out that the piece thank You very Much is
Speaker 2: the piece that has most concerned the Arts Minister, and
Speaker 2: it was the work that the head of Creative Australia,
Speaker 2: Adrian Collette, was unaware of until it was brought up
Speaker 2: by Claire Chainler in senate question time.
Speaker 1: Okay, so the controversy begins and it's around his previous work,
Speaker 1: not his current work. News Corp runs an article about it.
Speaker 1: Chandler gets up at question Time and starts asking these questions.
Speaker 1: What happens next.
Speaker 2: The wheels moved very quickly. We have a question that
Speaker 2: is asked at around two thirty five in the afternoon.
Speaker 2: Immediately after question Time, the Public Affairs area of Creative
Speaker 2: Australia immediately contacting Adrian Collette. This is somehow also being
Speaker 2: transmitted to the Arts Minister Tony Burke in the house.
Speaker 2: Within an hour, Tony Burke, as soon as he gets
Speaker 2: out of question Time, is calling Adrian Collette to find
Speaker 2: out essentially what the hell to find out about these
Speaker 2: artworks that he was not made aware of previously. In
Speaker 2: that phone call, Adrian Collette informs the Arts Minister that
Speaker 2: the board has already decided to meet to immediately discuss
Speaker 2: the appointment of them for the B and Aali Next
Speaker 2: thing we know, according to Adrian Collette, about four point
Speaker 2: thirty in the afternoon, the artist is made aware that
Speaker 2: the board is being gathered to discuss this urgently. Six
Speaker 2: o'clock the board members gather apart from one Larissa Brent,
Speaker 2: who is unavailable and is away, and then within an
Speaker 2: hour it's all over. The decision is made unanimously in
Speaker 2: a very difficult board meeting. A little bit later, about
Speaker 2: nine point thirty, A very short statement goes out to
Speaker 2: inform the world that the appointment is no more and
Speaker 2: then opens a greater controversy.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break the phone call between the
Speaker 1: boss of Creative Australia and the Arts Minister. Karen, you've
Speaker 1: said that the Arts Minister, Tony Burke, as soon as
Speaker 1: he gets out of Question Time, calls the head of
Speaker 1: Creative Australia, Adrian Collette. So tell me how much more
Speaker 1: do we know about that phone call and what was said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a lot of interest in this phone
Speaker 2: call that happened straight after question Time. We don't know
Speaker 2: the full context and information in that conversation. There is
Speaker 2: much discussion in the art world that perhaps some undue
Speaker 2: pressure is put there. But Tony Burke says in his
Speaker 2: interview on seven point thirty that when he spoke to
Speaker 2: Adrian Collette, it was immediately made clear to him that
Speaker 2: the board had already decided to meet over this that day.
Speaker 1: Did you give him any instruction or give him any
Speaker 1: sense of your view of the decision in that conversation.
Speaker 2: I was very clear with him. I made clear to
Speaker 2: Adrian Collette, who I've known for more than a decade.
Speaker 3: I said to him, if you just.
Speaker 2: Whichever whatever do you decide, I will support you and
Speaker 2: I will support Creative Australia. I was very clear in
Speaker 2: that the Minister, who has only done a little bit
Speaker 2: of media post this decision, has insisted that he's at
Speaker 2: arm's length and that's what the legislation that sets up
Speaker 2: Creative Australia insists that there is an arms length process
Speaker 2: on decisions between the Minister and the body itself. But
Speaker 2: there's still question marks. We know that the Arts Minister
Speaker 2: is very personally invested in the arts portfolio. He's had
Speaker 2: that portfolio in the Rudd Gillard years. He's personally insisted
Speaker 2: to the Prime Minister that you keep this portfolio, despite
Speaker 2: the that the reshuffle last year he was brought into
Speaker 2: Home Affairs to essentially shut down the controversies that were
Speaker 2: continuing prior to him getting the portfolio. I think you know,
Speaker 2: when he got Arts, much discussion was well how does
Speaker 2: that fit? And you know, it's kind of interesting the
Speaker 2: way that it's turned out that there is this national
Speaker 2: security bent now to this discussion in the arts. So
Speaker 2: this will be something that personally stings him, and there
Speaker 2: is this whole view that in trying to shut down
Speaker 2: this controversy, it's created a bigger one and that Australia
Speaker 2: is looking terrible on the international stage.
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little more about Creative Australia, because
Speaker 1: as you say, it sounds like this board meeting was
Speaker 1: very tense, very difficult, and it's clear that there is
Speaker 1: a lot of unease within Creative Australia around that decision. Now,
Speaker 1: so tell me a bit more about the fallout.
Speaker 2: So immediately after the board meeting, there is a series
Speaker 2: of resignations. We had a resignation from board member Lindy Lee,
Speaker 2: who is an artist, a renowned Australian artist, and she
Speaker 2: expressed how difficult the board meeting was, but she was
Speaker 2: unable to talk further about it due to confidentiality. There
Speaker 2: are a number of senior positions in Creative Australia who
Speaker 2: also felt that they had to go. And then we've
Speaker 2: started to see a number of significant people in the
Speaker 2: arts community complain about what has transpired. But it's been
Speaker 2: noted to me that it's not really something that the
Speaker 2: bigger institutions have stood up and said anything about this
Speaker 2: is something that has been left to large figures such
Speaker 2: as Lizanne McGregor, who is a former director of the
Speaker 2: Museum of Contemporary Art in Sydney. She's stood up and
Speaker 2: discussed how chilling this whole event has been for the
Speaker 2: entire arts community. People in the arts community say this
Speaker 2: will mean that going forward, people will have to look
Speaker 2: at the backgrounds of everyone at every past piece of work,
Speaker 2: so people may not put themselves forward for example, or
Speaker 2: people will be more careful about what they do and
Speaker 2: express themselves. And liz Ane McGregor, she tells me she's
Speaker 2: getting emails calls from all over the world asking what
Speaker 2: a stratire is doing considering its reputation for fostering the.
Speaker 1: Arts, and what about the artist? What about Karled Subsabi?
Speaker 1: What has he said about where this has left him.
Speaker 2: We've only had a couple of statements from Khaled Subsabi
Speaker 2: and Michael Dagostino. They're united as this artistic team. They
Speaker 2: are asking for privacy while acknowledging thanks for the support
Speaker 2: from the artistic and wider community for their work. They
Speaker 2: are deeply disturbed, both professionally and personally by this decision.
Speaker 4: They're deeply shocked going forward.
Speaker 2: Also the question about the future of Creative Australia and Collette.
Speaker 2: He was asked whether he would resign and he said no,
Speaker 2: he would not. The chair Robert Morgan also was asked
Speaker 2: whether he would resign and he said no. Asked also
Speaker 2: about an apology for the artists. Well, this is now
Speaker 2: in the hands of lawyers and publicly there is no
Speaker 2: apology from Creative Australia to the artists. Ultimately, it looks
Speaker 2: like the bin Aali Pavilion will be empty in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six.
Speaker 1: Karen, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Also in the news today, Ukraine and the United States
Speaker 1: have agreed to the terms of a deal which we'll
Speaker 1: see the two countries jointly develop Ukraine's critical minerals industry.
Speaker 1: Ukraine has an estimated sixteen trillion dollars worth of the minerals,
Speaker 1: much of it in Russian occupied territory where fighting is ongoing.
Speaker 1: President Trump has said the deal will compensate for the
Speaker 1: billions of dollars in US support since the start of
Speaker 1: the Russia Ukraine War, and the Prime Minister has announced
Speaker 1: an increase in federal funding to help deliver the Melbourne
Speaker 1: Airport rail link, bringing the Abeneze government's total funding commitment
Speaker 1: to seven billion dollars. The project is designed to operate
Speaker 1: via Sunshine Station, where Anthony Albanezi says the additional two
Speaker 1: billion would help create a new rail hub. I'm Ruby Jones.
Speaker 1: This is seven AM and I'll be back tomorrow with
Speaker 1: Politzer Prize winning writer Geraldine Brooks talking about Anthony Albanesi's
Speaker 1: hopes of re election.
Speaker 2: Mon