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Speaker 1: Five nights with Matthew Pantalas unless you're under sixteen and

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Speaker 1: you're not on social media anymore. The band comes into

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Speaker 1: effect on the tenth of December next week, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of parents are looking well, maybe they

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Speaker 1: are looking forward to seeing what their kids look like

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Speaker 1: without their heads down on their phones on social media.

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Speaker 1: But there are some probably going through a bit of

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Speaker 1: grief in that the kids are besides themselves in not

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Speaker 1: being able to use social media. Moving forward, some are

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Speaker 1: finding ways around. We talked yesterday last night about an

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Speaker 1: upswing in new social media platforms that are trending in

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Speaker 1: the Apple Store and Google Store where people are jumping on.

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Speaker 1: I think it was Yelp was one and Lemon eight

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Speaker 1: was another. They're just trending up and up and up.

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Speaker 1: And I see tonight on the news reports of kids

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Speaker 1: you know under sixteen who are saying born in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty five and submitting a photo and it's been accepted.

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Speaker 1: So their set, but there are plenty others who are

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Speaker 1: concerned about it. Now. The Aligned Counsel of Australia is

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Speaker 1: warning that the ban is potentially going to trigger a

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Speaker 1: series of serious and avoidable unintended consequences. Let's find out

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Speaker 1: some more. Aiden mclindon is with the ACA and he

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Speaker 1: joins me, Now, Aiden, good.

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Speaker 2: Evening, Good evening, Matthew, how are you all right?

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Speaker 1: Thank you?

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Speaker 2: Program?

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Speaker 1: What are you concerned about? What serious and avoidable unintended

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Speaker 1: consequences do you fear.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think with anything, particularly in government, when you

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Speaker 2: have policy on the run, there's always going to be

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Speaker 2: an equal opposite reaction. And in this instance, I mean,

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Speaker 2: for example, Instagram has been around for fifteen years, then

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Speaker 2: to all of a sudden have this holistic policy to

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Speaker 2: say that's it, We're bringing the guillotine down. Look, that's

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Speaker 2: all well and good, and you might have good reason

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Speaker 2: to market that, but the reality is it's not been

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Speaker 2: able to be policed. It's not going to certainly not

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Speaker 2: going to stop many of the children under sixteen who

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Speaker 2: are able to access these platforms anyway. And one of

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Speaker 2: the key unintended consequences is the fact that many, many

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Speaker 2: children will go to the dark Web, which is, for

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Speaker 2: those that don't know, is a hidden layer of an

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Speaker 2: incident that is not indexed by the standard search engine,

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Speaker 2: so it as a special software to access lock of

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Speaker 2: the tour browser, which is cor browser. But what that

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Speaker 2: actually does. It actually breeds a whole new dark web

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Speaker 2: of people and particularly predators, where of course, you know

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Speaker 2: their target audience is children. Now, those children, who often

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Speaker 2: referred to as digital natives, are far more advanced in

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Speaker 2: terms of technology to the even their parents. You'll own

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Speaker 2: the government, you know, they're sort of fifteen years off

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Speaker 2: the market here. And to sort of just this broad

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Speaker 2: brush policy to say, oh, that's it, the guilloteam comes

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Speaker 2: down in six days and everything's going to be fine.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to be policed, and I would dare

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Speaker 2: say that Asio and the federal police are going to

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Speaker 2: enter into a space of the absolute nightmare trying to

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Speaker 2: control the numbers of cases that are going to inevitably

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Speaker 2: increase as a result of this poor policy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I note a line in the release that you've

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Speaker 1: put out today. In over regulated environments, organized crime always

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Speaker 1: steps in. Wouldn't the opposite happen if it's over regulated

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Speaker 1: and people are looking at it closely, how does organized

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Speaker 1: crime get a toe hold?

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Speaker 2: Well, the reality is it's left up to the private

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Speaker 2: companies to look at it, not the government. So it's

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Speaker 2: not going to be policed. The government is not going

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Speaker 2: to enforce it, so you know, the existing accounts, they're

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Speaker 2: going to be limited that access you know obviously for

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Speaker 2: the under sixteens on various platforms, but the worldwide where

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Speaker 2: it's just that it's an endless you know, aren't exhausted

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Speaker 2: this list of access points that is literally trying to

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Speaker 2: throw a net into the ocean and hoping you catch

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Speaker 2: a while. It's the reality is that the horse bolted,

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Speaker 2: you know, more than twenty years ago, and now we've

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Speaker 2: got this clunky government policy that really is going to

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Speaker 2: push it underground create a black market. Effectively, similarly with

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Speaker 2: what the acting CEO for Barbara Mavritis actually mentioned was

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Speaker 2: the tobacco industry, I mean against to the point where

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Speaker 2: it's becomes so overregulated the government no longer actually has

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Speaker 2: control over that industry anymore. And that's exactly what I think.

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Speaker 2: Where the Aligned count of Australia, it's said that you know,

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Speaker 2: they've got forty member groups representing over two million Australians

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Speaker 2: and not one of those member groups have coming forward

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Speaker 2: and so that's a good thing. So you know, there's

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Speaker 2: obviously some massive alarm bells there that need addressing and

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Speaker 2: it's only a matter of time before this will be

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Speaker 2: hauled before a parliamentary inquiry as to what went wrong.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so pushing kids to go you know, underground as

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Speaker 1: it were, to get on the dark web, do you

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Speaker 1: reckon kids?

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Speaker 2: Know?

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Speaker 1: I mean I don't know how to find the dark web?

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Speaker 1: Well you do Google dark Web.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting point. And as I said, there's

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Speaker 2: a search engine called tor t Are. And you know,

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Speaker 2: these are very basic things for as I said, the

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Speaker 2: digital native, you know, going on the days. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're probably that age group where we had the old

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Speaker 2: knock your brick on our hip. We walked around, you know,

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Speaker 2: flashing them on the front part of that because we

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Speaker 2: could afford a mobile phone. But these children are so

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Speaker 2: advanced in terms of you know, how user friendly it

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Speaker 2: actually is and how to get around and circumvent some

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Speaker 2: of these rules that are put in place. Now. Obviously

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Speaker 2: it's going to be disconnected anyway, because you know, it's

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Speaker 2: global and all of a sudden Australia has gone off

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Speaker 2: which I would say unhinged policy. And then you've got

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Speaker 2: the Federal Communications Minister Anika Wells, you know, blowing one

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars just come back from three day trip

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Speaker 2: to New York spreaking something that you could have done

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Speaker 2: in an email. And this is symptomatic of a government

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Speaker 2: that has lost touch, that is basically looking for headliness.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's fine, it's going to solve everything. But this

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Speaker 2: this has not had any thought clarity put into it.

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Speaker 2: And I think what we're going to see now is

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Speaker 2: parents are obviously many parents are going to use their

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Speaker 2: emails to access some of these social platforms. But more importantly,

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Speaker 2: you know, people are over sixteen. They are going to

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Speaker 2: be forced into proving their age. And that's brought with

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Speaker 2: the whole litany of dages in terms of you know,

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Speaker 2: we've seen one of the biggest data breaches in Australia's

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Speaker 2: history throughout US back in twenty twenty two. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: nine point seven million people, you know, all their information,

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Speaker 2: the phasian recognitions, that's all updated. I mean we have

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Speaker 2: to start asking a question, you know, this regulation, what

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Speaker 2: sort of world do we want to live in where

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Speaker 2: every single movement's going to be tracked? So, you know,

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Speaker 2: this is equally important in terms of the over sixteen.

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Speaker 2: So we're going to be caught into the net of

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Speaker 2: having to, you know, over verify themselves just to use

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Speaker 2: some of the basic things that they've always used. And

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Speaker 2: that's why I think what we're seeing here is, I

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Speaker 2: think is very simplistic policy, and I think there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of dangers that are kind of come out of it,

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Speaker 2: and there's things there's going to be a lot of

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Speaker 2: data breaches, and I think people's privacy is going to

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Speaker 2: be once again compromised, and I really don't think the

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Speaker 2: government has given it any the necessary tension that it warrants.

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Speaker 1: I ate, and I don't know about you. You probably are

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Speaker 1: as well. I'm on I think five different platforms and

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Speaker 1: I sort of go to the most days and browse through.

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Speaker 1: But if any one of them wants my idea at

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Speaker 1: the age of sixty one, that'll be probably the end

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Speaker 1: of it. I ain't providing a driver's license or anything

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Speaker 1: else to them. They can go and get nodded.

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Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, I blame you. I think there'll be a

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Speaker 2: few million people behind you in the care I think

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Speaker 2: there might be some people haven't looked into it enough,

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Speaker 2: but unfortunately, at some point in time they're going to

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Speaker 2: probably wish and they attracted that information that they're given

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Speaker 2: to a private company and yeah, and this is going

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Speaker 2: to have a lot of impassed on business as well.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I think what we're seeing now is

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Speaker 2: just policy with his disastrous you know, it's like all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden saying that, you know, no more soft

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Speaker 2: drinks to kids? Is that a good thing? Yeah? Probably?

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Speaker 2: Can you police it?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Can you enforce it? No? Are the parents going to

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Speaker 2: buy some course?

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Speaker 1: Again?

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Speaker 2: Really, the government's really got to start looking at itself

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Speaker 2: and say, hang on, this is ridiculous. What they should

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Speaker 2: be doing is a parliamentary inquiry into monitoring some of

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Speaker 2: the predators online now and strengthening some of the you know,

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Speaker 2: the usability and the availability of information. It's been disseminated

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Speaker 2: that children far too early for their brains can handle.

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Speaker 2: I mean something effective like that, you could say is warranted.

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Speaker 2: I think what we're seeing here is just another disaster,

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Speaker 2: a policy ex flawed. And I really do feel that

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Speaker 2: there's going to be a much much larger group of

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Speaker 2: vulnerable children as a result of this.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you reckon that? And you touched on

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Speaker 1: parents and what it's going to mean for them. This

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Speaker 1: is a chance to step up and parent a little

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Speaker 1: bit more, isn't it? And some would be right, I

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Speaker 1: don't know exactly what their kids are doing, but with

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Speaker 1: the change, you'd want to be ensuring that your kids'

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Speaker 1: grandkids aren't on the dark web. They're not looking for

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Speaker 1: a you know, a backdoor into social media of one

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Speaker 1: form or another and potentially exposing themselves to harm by

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Speaker 1: pedophiles or anyone else with an untoward interest for whatever purpose,

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Speaker 1: financial or whatever. So this is a chance to step

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Speaker 1: up and parent, is it.

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Speaker 2: Not well, absolutely, But at the same time, you know

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Speaker 2: it's all going to a lot of it comes to

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Speaker 2: good parenting and lot every parent has its strength and

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Speaker 2: weakness for various reasons. In that the problem is, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you want to put as simplistic as good parents

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Speaker 2: and bad parents, I think the bad parents again, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be you know, it's going to be business

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Speaker 2: as usual. They're going to still access the platforms they

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Speaker 2: wish to anyway. And the good parenting, well, you'll probably

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Speaker 2: find a lot of those kids under sixteen probably aren't

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Speaker 2: even on those social platforms, or they have parents that

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Speaker 2: have stincd it to their phone and are very aware

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Speaker 2: of the movements and have timelocks on it and also

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Speaker 2: website locks on. So there's a lot of mechanisms in

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Speaker 2: place to support parents, but really the focus should be

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Speaker 2: on the education to the parents through the schools say hey,

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Speaker 2: these are no gos those because your children's vulnerable. And

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Speaker 2: I think that would have been much more of a

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Speaker 2: practical outcome and certainly made an environment faith. But what

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Speaker 2: I've said is that I can see here he's going forward.

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Speaker 2: Is it going to push a very very dark underground

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Speaker 2: and increase in the vulnerability of our children. And I think,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately this policy will be held before a parliamentary inquiry

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Speaker 2: as to why I was put there in the first thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just before I let you go, AID Aligned Council

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Speaker 1: of Australia. Who are you? What is the Aligned Council

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Speaker 1: of Australia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good, good question. So the Aligned Council of Australia

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Speaker 2: is a We've got about forty member groups right around

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Speaker 2: Australia and they represent lots of different things. From the

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Speaker 2: World Council for Health Australia, We've got the National Institute

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Speaker 2: of Integrated Medicine, Parents with Questions, Children's health affair in

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Speaker 2: Australian Medical professional society, a whole range of varied groups

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Speaker 2: who have come together in the last five years to

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Speaker 2: say that you know what I think. Together under an umbrella,

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Speaker 2: we are strengthened in terms of what we do, and

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Speaker 2: what they do is to represent ordinary Australians, to ensure

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Speaker 2: that they're informed, educated and protected on government policy, and

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Speaker 2: to ensure that we have the autonomy of Australian democracy

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Speaker 2: because we've seen it eroaded quite rapidly in the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years and we represent over two million people

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Speaker 2: at this stage and that's growing every week. So we're

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Speaker 2: certainly a very common sense organization that will sort of

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Speaker 2: influence policy from the outside, call it out for what

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Speaker 2: it is, and certainly, you know, embrace good policy and

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Speaker 2: put our two cents in on behalf of those member

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Speaker 2: groups in terms of what could be done better on

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Speaker 2: all levels of government, local, state and federal, because I

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Speaker 2: think we're getting it to a tipping point now where

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Speaker 2: we've got a lot of supposed representatives in our parliaments

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Speaker 2: that are probably driven by self interest or being driven

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Speaker 2: by external interests which are not in the interest of

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Speaker 2: your everyday Australian. So yeah, it's quite a formidable organization

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Speaker 2: building rapidly, and issues such as the one of the

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Speaker 2: under sixteen social media band. I think we'll know, and

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Speaker 2: that obviously cost of living issues are going to be

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Speaker 2: numerous as those that will be quite active next year

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Speaker 2: as the board strength and to welcome building for member

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Speaker 2: groups right across the nation. So I think you'll hear

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Speaker 2: a lot more fromas in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Okay, look forward to it. Good on you, Aiden, thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time tonight.

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Speaker 2: Good on you Wise, Thank you match.

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Speaker 1: Aiden McClinton, who is a political advisor to the Aligned

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Speaker 1: Council of Australia, the group he was just referring to

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Speaker 1: in their membership base all right, twenty one past eight.

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Speaker 1: The social media band kicks in on December ten, and

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Speaker 1: some platforms have already begun the process of removing people

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Speaker 1: aged under sixteen or the ones they've determined to be

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Speaker 1: that so interesting days ahead. Over the next week, parents

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Speaker 1: would be stressed, I imagine as a result of their

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Speaker 1: kids being stressed about the potential demise of their social

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Speaker 1: media accounts, which and personally minor over sixteen, but they're

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Speaker 1: not on social media anyway. I think I'd be broadly

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Speaker 1: supportive of what the government's trying to do. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I sort of don't have a dog in the fight

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Speaker 1: either way, really because personally at least, but I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's a bad idea. But I think aidents made

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Speaker 1: some very good points, and kids are very good at

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Speaker 1: circumventing issues like this. They go around, they find a

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Speaker 1: back door, and the concern is if they do end

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Speaker 1: up on the dark web, and you can imagine how,

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Speaker 1: hey do you do that spreading around the school yard

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Speaker 1: for instance. So it potentially has it's risks, but time

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Speaker 1: will tell