WEBVTT - The truth about men who kill women

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<v Speaker 1>News stories about violence against women have been coming hard

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<v Speaker 1>and fast these past few weeks. These stories of women

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<v Speaker 1>and sometimes children killed, usually by a man they knew,

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<v Speaker 1>and often in a terribly violent way, are hard to read.

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<v Speaker 1>I find myself torn between not wanting to know about

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<v Speaker 1>the particular horrors of another death and seeking all the

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<v Speaker 1>information I can get so that maybe I can work

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<v Speaker 1>out how we've ended up here. Why it is that

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<v Speaker 1>all the education campaigns and talk of respect for women

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<v Speaker 1>seems to make no difference, and every few days another

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<v Speaker 1>woman dies. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven AM and

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<v Speaker 1>today I'm talking to Australia's Sex Discrimination Commissioner, doctor Anna

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<v Speaker 1>Coody about why our domestic violence problem is getting worse.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, July twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>Two, doctor Cody.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for taking the time to speak

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<v Speaker 1>with me today.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Ruby.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that you were last on seven AM when

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<v Speaker 1>you'd just begun as commissioner, so a year ago now,

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<v Speaker 1>and it strikes me that it would be a tough

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<v Speaker 1>time to be Sex Discrimination Commissioner, because it's a hard

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<v Speaker 1>time to be a woman in Australia. At the moment,

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<v Speaker 1>fifty two women have been killed by men just in

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<v Speaker 1>the first half of this year, and there have been

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<v Speaker 1>several terrible killings in recent weeks. Why do you think

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<v Speaker 1>this is happening?

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<v Speaker 3>I agree it is a really hard time to be

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<v Speaker 3>a woman in Australia right now. When I hear of

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<v Speaker 3>another homicide, I feel shocked. I feel I find it

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<v Speaker 3>deeply upsetting to hear of another woman who has been

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<v Speaker 3>killed in some of the most sadistic and horrific way,

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<v Speaker 3>and now in a position of responsibility for trying to

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<v Speaker 3>make some change in that, I feel that as a weight.

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<v Speaker 3>I definitely feel that as I have a responsibility to

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<v Speaker 3>try and make as much change as I can, really

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<v Speaker 3>trying to understand what policies need to change and how

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<v Speaker 3>I can influence that policy change. So it's both personal

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<v Speaker 3>and then it's sort of like I've got this real

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<v Speaker 3>responsibility to do something about this. How can I do this?

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<v Speaker 1>And do you feel like you understand why men kill women?

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<v Speaker 3>I think I have glimpses of it. I think the

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<v Speaker 3>fundamental cause is gender inequality and very rigid stereotypes values norms.

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<v Speaker 3>But that doesn't mean all men kill all that all

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<v Speaker 3>domestic and family violence ends in homicide. So the actual

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<v Speaker 3>homicide part of it. The evidence is that there's three categories.

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<v Speaker 3>Some who it's more sort of haph has it, it's

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<v Speaker 3>alcohol related, drug relate, and in some ways it's the

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<v Speaker 3>same violence but it just tips over into homicide. And

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<v Speaker 3>then there's the other where there's the course of control.

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<v Speaker 3>We're sort of typified by a typical white, middle class

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<v Speaker 3>professional men. And the third scenario is where someone's had

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<v Speaker 3>a crisis in their life. So it's often older men,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, They've had a mental health incident or had

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<v Speaker 3>a particularly difficult sort of crisis in their life and

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<v Speaker 3>then they sort of go downhill and then suddenly kill.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a bit more about what the government is

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<v Speaker 1>trying to do. It was elected partly on this platform

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<v Speaker 1>to address violence against women, and it has a plan.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the National Plan to End Violence against Women and Children.

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<v Speaker 1>It was launched almost two years ago. Now with this

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<v Speaker 1>target of reducing female intimate partner homicides by twenty five

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<v Speaker 1>percent each year, we're obviously not even close to being

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<v Speaker 1>on track for an outcome like that. So tell me

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<v Speaker 1>what you think of the National Plan.

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<v Speaker 3>National plan in its self has good objectives. It's how

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<v Speaker 3>we implement it. We really need to see a decent

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<v Speaker 3>investment of money policy change as well. While the ending

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<v Speaker 3>Violence payment that the government announced in its most recent

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<v Speaker 3>budget is a one off and welcome response, it's not enough.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to change some of the ways in which

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<v Speaker 3>social security gets measured. So assuming that income is shared

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<v Speaker 3>in a family in a couple is a wrong assumption.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't happen in violent relationships. Income is not shared.

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<v Speaker 3>And we also know that the unemployment benefit is absolutely insufficient.

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<v Speaker 3>So for any woman who's got children over fourteen, then

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<v Speaker 3>she's stuck with the unemployment benefit and that is not

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<v Speaker 3>a living support system. So that needs to change, so

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<v Speaker 3>that some of the ongoing supports within the social security

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<v Speaker 3>system need to change in order to support women leaving

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<v Speaker 3>violent relationships. We've seen one of the best ways of

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<v Speaker 3>reducing domestic and family violence in First Nations communities is

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<v Speaker 3>to involve First Nations women and First Nations men and

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<v Speaker 3>communities in designing the measures that are needed. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>we've seen in just reinvestment projects in Marangurka and Burke

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<v Speaker 3>a reduction in domestic and family violence by thirty percent

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<v Speaker 3>in that community. Those are the sorts of holistic responses

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<v Speaker 3>that the National Plan is supportive of. It's recognizing the

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<v Speaker 3>handing over of some of that control and ensuring that

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<v Speaker 3>First Nations communities and first nations women are instrumental, are

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<v Speaker 3>at the center of design.

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<v Speaker 1>And something that we've heard a lot from the Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister and others is that domestic violence is a cultural issue.

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<v Speaker 1>That we need to address attitudes towards women in society

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<v Speaker 1>in order to address domestic violence. And we've had ad

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<v Speaker 1>campaigns around that, around respect being the starting point, and

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<v Speaker 1>those campaigns, I mean, they are heartwarming, they're certainly well intentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>but should we be asking the question now are they working?

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<v Speaker 3>We need to do more research on what actually works

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<v Speaker 3>for behavior change. What we want to see is behavior change.

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<v Speaker 3>We need to understand what is it that we actually

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<v Speaker 3>need to do to stop that homicide. Absolutely we need

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<v Speaker 3>to also change attitudes and values, and some of the

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<v Speaker 3>statistics coming out of the Personal Safety Survey in twenty

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<v Speaker 3>one twenty two showed that there was a shift in

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<v Speaker 3>some of those attitudes. But the most recent statistics are

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<v Speaker 3>horrific and we know that Australia, you know, of the

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<v Speaker 3>OECD countries where the eighth worst in terms of the

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<v Speaker 3>G twenty countries. So we have a serious problem with this.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think we need to make an ideological shift then,

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<v Speaker 1>to change the way that we as a country think

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<v Speaker 1>about and talk about domestic violence.

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<v Speaker 3>If we think about a similar threat, if we think

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<v Speaker 3>think of up to forty women depending on how we count,

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<v Speaker 3>who have been killed this year and we're only just

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<v Speaker 3>halfway through. How many women have been killed, and the

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<v Speaker 3>investment that we put into that, and there has been

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<v Speaker 3>a substantial investment, But is that enough? But if we

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<v Speaker 3>do draw an analogy with what sort of resources go

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<v Speaker 3>into addressing terrorism, for example, and how many people have

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<v Speaker 3>been killed by terrorism in Australia in the last five years.

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<v Speaker 3>We have a huge investment in anti terrorism actions, do

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<v Speaker 3>we have an equivalent investment in anti domestic and family violence?

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<v Speaker 3>So I think we do need to think about it

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<v Speaker 3>differently in recognizing how it is intrinsic. It's intrinsic to

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<v Speaker 3>how we are in Australia and that's a horrible thing

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<v Speaker 3>to acknowledge. So how do we stop it? How do

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<v Speaker 3>we stop it being a part of the identity of

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<v Speaker 3>who we are as Australians.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's talk more about this idea that we should

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<v Speaker 1>treat domestic violence with the same urgency as we treat

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<v Speaker 1>domestic terrorism. That's a concept that Rosie Baddy first raised

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<v Speaker 1>when her son was killed by his father eleven years ago. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the idea of family terrorism. And I suppose when you

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<v Speaker 1>think about terrorism, the idea or the fear there is

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<v Speaker 1>that a terror attack could affect any person, so the

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<v Speaker 1>innocent public is at risk. But there is this common

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<v Speaker 1>perception that domestic violence isn't a public risk, that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a personal one. And that sort of goes to the

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<v Speaker 1>heart of the issue, doesn't that people don't necessarily see

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<v Speaker 1>domestic violence as something that could happen to them or

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<v Speaker 1>to someone that they know until it does.

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<v Speaker 3>And yet we know it. We all know people, all

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<v Speaker 3>of us in our families got family members who've experienced

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<v Speaker 3>domestic and family violence. It is prevalent. We know it

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<v Speaker 3>touches all of our lives, and yet we want to

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<v Speaker 3>believe that it doesn't, that it is someone else somewhere else,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's not. It is absolutely an intrinsic part across

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<v Speaker 3>all classes, across all cultures. Then maybe it is that

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<v Speaker 3>fear of it impacting on us, And I think a

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<v Speaker 3>lack of drawing connections between even if it doesn't affect

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<v Speaker 3>us personally, how it may affect our children, or the

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<v Speaker 3>way in which our society functions and thinks about the

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<v Speaker 3>role of women and the role of men, and how

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<v Speaker 3>limiting it is for men if they you know, I

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<v Speaker 3>think there's a continuum in terms of our very gendered

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<v Speaker 3>ideas and stereotypes around what is masculinity and what is femininity.

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<v Speaker 3>Those are constraining for men and boys, so deeply constraining

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<v Speaker 3>and leads to things like really bad mental health statistics

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<v Speaker 3>for men. So we know that there's a complex way

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<v Speaker 3>in which domestic and family violence, driven by some of

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<v Speaker 3>those really gendered, rigid ideas, impacts on all of us.

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<v Speaker 3>But maybe we're not the one being physically hurt or

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<v Speaker 3>emotionally hurt, but we are impacted in our society, all

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<v Speaker 3>of us by the prevalence of domestic and family violence.

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<v Speaker 1>And making this kind of ideological shift to thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>domestic violence as akin to terrorism, that would seem to

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<v Speaker 1>me to mean that we would then be asking that

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement would take a harder line on violence against women,

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<v Speaker 1>so police would perhaps have more resources or more power.

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<v Speaker 1>Given some of the significant failings that we've seen from

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<v Speaker 1>police when it comes to domestic violence. Do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that it's a good idea for law enforcement to have

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<v Speaker 1>more of a role in this space.

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<v Speaker 3>I think depending on how law and were to use

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<v Speaker 3>those powers. I think acting on breaches of our prind

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<v Speaker 3>of violence orders is really significant. But I also think

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<v Speaker 3>what we saw in Burke in the Mari Andngooga project

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<v Speaker 3>was actually police working cooperatively with community responding to what

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<v Speaker 3>they identified. So it was very much a collaborative response

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<v Speaker 3>rather than a punitive response, and so I think we

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<v Speaker 3>have to reimagine rather than a law and order rather

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<v Speaker 3>police serving the community type of response. It must be

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<v Speaker 3>really hard to be a police officer going to domestic

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<v Speaker 3>violence incidents on such a frequent basis. I would think

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<v Speaker 3>that would be a really difficult part of their work.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think it is about training people to have

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<v Speaker 3>an empathy and an understanding, being able to properly identify

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<v Speaker 3>who the victim is, having an agendaed understanding of how

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<v Speaker 3>domestic and family violence plays out, having the complexity of

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<v Speaker 3>understanding around cultural and racial implications within domestic family violence,

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<v Speaker 3>as well as LGBQTR plus so there's a lot of training,

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<v Speaker 3>so I don't I wouldn't assume it was a more

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<v Speaker 3>punitive law and order approach.

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<v Speaker 1>So Anna, do you have faith that the current government

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<v Speaker 1>has the right priorities in their sites when it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to gendered violence and that they're going to invest in

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<v Speaker 1>the way that we need to see.

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<v Speaker 3>I think this government and I know that the Minister

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<v Speaker 3>for Women, Katie Gallahay, is deeply committed to change in

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<v Speaker 3>this area, as it's the Prime Minister, as is the

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<v Speaker 3>Attorney General who has reviewed the family law system. We

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<v Speaker 3>know that family law system is also functioned to keep

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<v Speaker 3>women in violent relationships. So yes, I am. I am

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<v Speaker 3>hopeful with some of the measures, but we need to

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<v Speaker 3>see in the MAIFO and as a result of the

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<v Speaker 3>rapid review that the government has announced, we need to

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<v Speaker 3>see some really concrete and large scale investments in this area.

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<v Speaker 1>Anna, thank you so much for your time, Pleasure Ruby.

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<v Speaker 3>If you or.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, the one eight

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<v Speaker 1>hundred Respect Hotline is available twenty four hours a day

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<v Speaker 1>one eight hundred seven three seven seven three to two.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, Donald Trump has made his

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<v Speaker 1>first appearance at a campaign rally since the attempt on

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<v Speaker 1>his life last weekend. During his speech, he distanced himself

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<v Speaker 1>from the conservative think tank Project twenty twenty five, which

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<v Speaker 1>has set out an agenda for the Trump presidency. Project

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five has been criticized for its authoritarian goals,

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<v Speaker 1>including an expansion of presidential power, a dismount of federal agencies,

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<v Speaker 1>and a dramatic increase of America's military capability. In his speech,

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<v Speaker 1>Donald Trump said I don't know anything about it. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to know anything about it, and Australians have

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<v Speaker 1>been worn to exercise caution as scammers try to capitalize

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<v Speaker 1>on the CrowdStrike triggered computer outages. The Home Affairs Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Clara O'Neill said individuals and small businesses had been receiving

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<v Speaker 1>emails from people pretending to be CrowdStrike or Microsoft in

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<v Speaker 1>order to gain access to private information, including bank details.

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<v Speaker 1>Microsoft has estimated that the outage impacted roughly eight point

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<v Speaker 1>five million computers around the world. I'm Ruby Jones. This

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<v Speaker 1>is seven am. See tomorrow