1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Britney Saunders and welcome to Big Business, the 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: place where business is far from boring. And today I'm 3 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: recording on Gadigall Land. Now I somehow managed to build 4 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: an empire from the garage underneath my house and I'm 5 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: here on Big Business to share it all with you, 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: from the winds, the huge mistakes, the challenging times and 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: funny moments in between. So whether you're in business already, 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: you're wanting to start one, or you're not even in 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: business at all and you're just looking for some inspiration, 10 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: or you just want to hear a good story of 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: the tea, this is the podcast for you. Coming up 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: in today's episode, I'm going to be taking you through 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: our hiring process at Fate, which I had touched on 14 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: in a previous Bonus episode. And I'm also going to 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: be talking about the red flags to look out for 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: when it comes to hiring staff. And as you know, 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: time is money. So let's get down to business. Let's 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: go down, let's get down the business now. I've got 19 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: a lot to say in this episod and I hope 20 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: I don't go all over the place. But what exactly 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: do I mean when I say, red flags when it 22 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 1: comes to hiring. I feel like that's a really negative 23 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: way to put it, Like red flags to look out for. 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in a mean way, but to 25 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: simply put it, these are warning signs or indicators that 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: an applicant might not be the right fit for your business. 27 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: They can appear at various stages of the hiring process, 28 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: from reviewing resumes and applications to conducting interviews and checking references. 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Little red flags can pop up at any stage. And 30 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: what scary is, and I've said this already in the 31 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: previous episode, is people's red flags, or employees red flags 32 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: can pop up when they're already employed, and that's when 33 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: it gets really bloody messy. I now I have almost 34 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: seventy employees. I think it could even be more. It 35 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: is going up and up as each day goes past, 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: which is crazy because it was not that long ago 37 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: that I remember saying, oh my god, I've got twenty staff, 38 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: and now it's seventy and I'm like, oh my god, 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: imagine when it's one hundred. But with how many staff 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 1: that I now have, it's safe to say that I 41 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: have a bit of experience when it comes to hiring. 42 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: And trust me when I say that I have had 43 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: my fair share of red flags pop up over the 44 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: years that I have definitely brushed aside, and I've had 45 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: them bite me in the bum later down the track. Now, 46 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: identifying these red flags, red flags in little quotation marks 47 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: is crucial because making a bad higher can be incredibly costly, 48 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: not just in terms of money, but also time, morale, 49 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: and productivity. Think about it. Every hour that you spend 50 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: training someone who isn't a good fit is an hour 51 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: that you could be spending growing your business or supporting 52 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: your existing team. I cannot stress to you enough the 53 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: people that you hire for your business will either make 54 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: your business or completely break it. We've all heard this 55 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: saying higher slow and fire fast, and there's a good 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,119 Speaker 1: reason that that quote exists. Hiring someone, even as casual 57 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: as it can seem, especially in those early days of business, 58 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: it can just seem like, yeah, whatever, she can come 59 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 1: work for me. It is such a crucial decision and 60 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: a delicate part of your business journey. The one thing 61 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: I advise to all of you when it comes to 62 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: hiring is to take your bloody time with it. I 63 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: touched on this already in a previous episode. But let 64 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: me start by taking you through what the typical hiring 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: process at FATE looks like and where any red flags 66 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: would pop up throughout our process, and what some of 67 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: those red flags can look like. Now. In my early 68 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: days of Fate, the hiring process was super simple. We 69 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: would put our job ads up on Seek. That's the 70 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: only place that we have ever put our job ads up, 71 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: and that's the website that we continue to use. Shout 72 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: out to Seek. The amount of money that I've spent 73 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: with them over the years, I should be on some 74 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: sort of VIP tier for the amount of ads that 75 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: we run. But we would put up our ads. We 76 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: would then shortlist the suitable applicants and then we would 77 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: invite them into our office for a face to face interview. 78 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: That was our interview process, and this is a pretty 79 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: standard way of interviewing and hiring. But over time I 80 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: found that we wasted a lot of time by jumping 81 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: straight into the face to face interview, as we'd be 82 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: meeting with candidates who were simply not the right fit 83 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: at all. You would just get people coming in who 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: just clearly weren't the right fit for the role, or 85 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: they had applied with no idea of what the role 86 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: was that they'd applied for. And it costs you a 87 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: lot of time and money and energy and effort if 88 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: you're just jumping straight into a face to face interview 89 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: straight up, because you know you'll spend all your time 90 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: scheduling them in. You'll get it booked in, you've got 91 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: people involved in the interview. They're coming in, and then 92 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: you've kind of got to conduct the interview even if 93 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 1: they are absolute no straight off the bat, even though 94 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: if you're like, yeah, this person isn't the right fit, 95 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: you then still got to do the interview. So then 96 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, you spend fifteen minutes like explaining the company 97 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: and everything to them even though they're just as straight 98 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: up not suitable. So when COVID came about, that's when 99 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: we obviously all really saw the world video calls boom, 100 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: and it was then that we implemented a video call 101 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: into our interviewing process. So we'd put up our seak ad, 102 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: we'd shortlist the applicants, then we'd lock in a Zoom 103 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: or Google meeting call as the first part of our 104 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: interview process. We would chat to them. We'd then move 105 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: on to the next round, which was face to face, 106 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: and by doing this it felt a little more streamlined 107 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: as we weren't wasting time with just face to face interviews. 108 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: Things did feel a little more streamlined by having these 109 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: two elements of our interviews, the video calls and then 110 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: a face to face, but we still felt like there 111 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: was something missing, so then we implemented a third part, 112 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: which actually is the first step of our interviews. And 113 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: this part of our interview process has been an absolute 114 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 1: game changer for us as a business, and that is 115 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: a written element. I did talk about this in a 116 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: free episode and my producer Xander said, I hate written interviews. 117 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: I hate them, but implementing a questionnaire as the first 118 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: step of our interview process has been an absolute game 119 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: changer for us and I'd highly recommend it to anyone. 120 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: God don't do it. So in a nutshell, this is 121 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: what our hiring process now looks like. We put up 122 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: our ads on Seek, we go through the applicants and 123 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: shortlist candidates that we think might be suitable. Those shortlisted 124 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: candidates are then entered into our written segment. I know 125 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: what to call it, a segment which I'll explain to 126 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: you in detail shortly of what that looks like, because 127 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: I don't want you all think and I'm getting people 128 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: to write essays. Successful applicants from our written segment are 129 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: then offered the video interview, and then those that are 130 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: successful in that move on to a face to face interview. 131 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: So there is three parts. If it's necessary, we then 132 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: might do a fourth if we feel like there needs 133 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: to be one more conversation, we could offer them the 134 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: job on the spot, or depending on the type of 135 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: role that they're applying for, there might be a little 136 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: bit of a physical element at it as well, like 137 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: a trial, especially if they're coming to work in our store. 138 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: We want to see what they're like with the customers. 139 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: They have to do a physical exam like lifting weights, 140 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: climbing up robes. But that's a little look at the 141 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: overview of our hiring process. So let's take it back 142 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,239 Speaker 1: to round one, the written element of our interviews. Why 143 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: did we implement this, what exactly do they have to write? 144 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: And why has it been an absolute game changer for 145 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 1: our business? Now, Like I said before, when you hear written, 146 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: I don't want you to think that we're getting people 147 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: to write us an essay. In fact, it's quite simple. 148 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: We send potential applicants a few basic questions about them 149 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: or about the role that they're applying for. They can 150 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: be as simple as what made you want to apply 151 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: for a role with fate? Or what three words would 152 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: your friends use to describe you. Another one that we 153 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: like to do, it's more of a personality one is 154 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: tell us an intro in fact or a fun and 155 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: interesting story about yourself. We also might throw in a 156 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: question about the role that they're applying for, like why 157 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: are you interested in this role? So? What are some 158 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: red flags or warning signs that we look out for 159 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: in this first round? A big one for us is 160 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: we're looking at people's writing skills. Why did you say that? What? 161 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: Sander's got something to say? Xander's got something to say, 162 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: he's scrunching off his face. 163 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: I just think that's so savage. 164 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: Why to be looking at their writing ste but. 165 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: In such a good way. It's something I've actually never 166 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: thought about, because like when I apply for interviews, I mean, 167 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: I know my writing skills are great, but like I've 168 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: actually never thought of that. That's why employeers probably do that. Yeah, 169 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: so put the dumb ones out like that's a flu. 170 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: But this is the thing, so we that's the first 171 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: thing that we're looking for is how they can write, 172 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: because a lot of our jobs, even though we're online 173 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: and whatever, a lot of our jobs have to do 174 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 1: a lot of like we do writing, especially if they're 175 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: coming to join our customer service team where we are 176 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: emailing customers every single day, if they're joining our social 177 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: media team and they're going to be writing captions. We 178 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: put these questions to our applicants and if they're writing 179 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: back one huge paragraph with no full stops and all 180 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: lower case letters, how they ever going to send an 181 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 1: email to one of our customers. 182 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: I'd see that and be like gen z. 183 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: So that's one of the first things that we're looking 184 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: out for. Is as weird as it is, and it 185 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: feels like we're going back to school, is we're seeing 186 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: can people use proper punctuation, grammar? How are they writing 187 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: their sentences? And you'll be surprised at how many people 188 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: do send us like two paragraphs worth in their answer, 189 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: but it's all one massive sentence with like no full stops, 190 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: no commas. And this is just basic stuff that we 191 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: learned in primary school. But that in itself helps us 192 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot, especially if they are joining our customer service 193 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: team where we are sending like one hundred emails every 194 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: single day. We need someone that is going to be 195 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: able to write emails because we're not going to teach 196 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: people like the correct way to write an email or 197 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: use punctuation or whatever. What else do we look out 198 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: for in these written answers, And mind you, they are 199 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: the most simple questions, but what we look for as 200 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: well is how much effort they put into their answer. 201 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: So an example of this is if we have asked 202 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: them the question what made you apply for a role 203 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: with Fate? If they just write back, I just wanted 204 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: a new job, or it seems fun, or you know, 205 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: something really simple like one sentence, compared to an applicant 206 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: that might write, I have applied for a role with 207 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: Fate because XYZ and I think I would be a 208 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: great fit. Because like, we're going to notice those applicants 209 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: that have gone the extra mile with their answer, because 210 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: they're going to stand out amongst the ones that just 211 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: have written one sentence. So it's not so much about 212 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: the answers to the questions, it's the way they're writing 213 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: and just the effort that they're putting into it, because 214 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: I know, for me, if someone's not going to put 215 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: in an effort to answer some really basic questions, how 216 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: they're going to put in an effort in role, especially 217 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: for us, where this young brand and we're all super passionate, Like, 218 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 1: we're looking for passionate people to join our team. And 219 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: if they're just going to write like I just saw 220 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: it and thought I would apply, like, then what are 221 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: they going to be like towards their role? We want 222 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: to find people that are passionate about the positions that 223 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: we have advertised. By narrowing down the bull early, you 224 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: ensure that only the most promising candidates advance to the 225 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: next stage, making the video call around more productive and focus. 226 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: And I thought i'd add in here it almost feels 227 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: weird to be talking about this when I'm talking about humans. 228 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: When using terms like narrowing down the bull and sifting 229 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: through people, it almost feels a bit wrong. But in business, 230 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: you want to be obviously a decent human and be 231 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: open to giving everyone a chance. But at the same time, 232 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: you're running a business and you have a role to fill, 233 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,719 Speaker 1: and I think that's something that you need to keep 234 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: in mind throughout the entire hiring processes. You want to 235 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: be like, oh, let's give them a chance and let's 236 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: see like even though they had really poor grammar, let's 237 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: give them a chance. But in business, as much as 238 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: I wish I could be that way like, you can't 239 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: because time is money, obviously, So onto the video interviews. 240 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: Video interviews obviously give us the chance as employers to 241 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: virtually meet our applicants and get a better feel for 242 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: who they are as a person. So what are some 243 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: of the things that we look out for in this 244 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: part of the process with video interviews? The first thing, 245 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: obviously that our attention goes to is the candidate's environment 246 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: and how they've presented themselves. Even though we're inviting applicants 247 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: to do an interview from the comfort of their own home, 248 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: if the camera pops up and they're sitting there in 249 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: their uti with KFC on their bed in the background 250 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: and their rooms a bit of a mess, that's definitely 251 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: going to raise a flag to any interviewer. Would you agree, center. 252 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 2: I would agree, And that's something that I'm extremely conscious 253 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: of when I go into a video interview, is what 254 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: is my background showing like, is it professional? Is it clean? 255 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: Is it like showing that, like, I'm coming into this 256 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: interview presented. Well, that's one of the biggest things that 257 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: I make sure that I kind of cover when I'm 258 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: going into an interview process. 259 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: And my advice to all of you out there, to anyone, 260 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: like if you are applying for a new role, I 261 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: would say, even if you feel like you don't need 262 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: to look presentable because maybe it's just a really casual 263 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,719 Speaker 1: workplace or whatever, like, I'd always make the effort to 264 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: just look presentable. And I'm not saying like you need 265 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: to have an amazing background and like a suit on 266 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: or whatever, but I think it definitely pays to always 267 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: present yourself in a professional way, Yeah, because it says 268 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: a lot about you. And you'd be surprised how many 269 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: people do just jump on interviews and they're like basically 270 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: in their dressing gown and pajamas. 271 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: I've got a funny story. Before I started my role 272 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 2: here as a producer with Nova, I had a blonde mullet. 273 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: I shaved it off before the interview, and I remember 274 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: telling my dad that I had the interview, and he goes, 275 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: did you have the interview with you mullet or without mullet, 276 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: so without he goes, thank God, you'll get the job. 277 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Again, like this is where the human 278 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: element of that comes in. Obviously we don't want to 279 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: judge people by their looks, but I think that you've 280 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: got to draw that line, and we do want people 281 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: that are going to show up and present themselves in 282 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: just a neat kind of way, because it just it 283 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: goes a mile to like dress nicely. And I know 284 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: some people can often get confused of like what do 285 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: I wear to an interview, like when they don't know 286 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: exactly if there's a dress code or whatever. But for 287 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: me personally, like I would always say just always present 288 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: yourself nicely. Me in any occasion, I'd rather look too 289 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: much the part than like not the part at all. 290 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: Another key area that we're obviously watching out for when 291 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: on these video interviews is their communication skills. Effective communication 292 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: is crucial no matter the role that they're applying for, 293 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: and it's during this interview process that we're also analyzing 294 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: whether this applicant would be a good culture fit at FATE, 295 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: especially for our head office positions. As much as we 296 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: are hiring applicants that are equipped and skilled and ready 297 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: to do the role. We are thinking about their personality 298 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: and if they are going to be a good culture 299 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: fit for the team. A red flag when it comes 300 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 1: to communication skills for me would be if someone is 301 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: coming across a little too strong. And again, I feel 302 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: mean for saying that, but you would be surprised. And 303 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm all for powerful women, you know, and like being confident, 304 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: but a lot of times in interviews, people can come 305 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 1: across really strong, like you know, maybe they're nervous or whatever, 306 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: but some people can come across really strong, and then 307 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: it gets our brains thinking, you know, if this person's 308 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: coming into our office, are they going to be that 309 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: same way to everyone? And is it going to throw 310 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: the culture and the balance off, Like are they going 311 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,440 Speaker 1: to be bossing people around or are they going to 312 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: have a hard time having someone give them directions or whatever. 313 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: So they're just all these little things that we're always 314 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: looking out for in interviews. It's important in interviews to 315 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: always be taking note of all the really obvious things 316 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: like are they freely, do they have the skills to 317 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: feel the role they're applying for, does their job history 318 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: align with the role in all the obvious things, But 319 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: it's also important to take note of the smaller things, 320 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: just the little tiny things. Examples could be is the 321 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: applicant continually cutting you off or talking over the top 322 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: of you, or have they bad mouthed their current or 323 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: past workplace a little too many times to the point 324 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: where it seems strange, Or maybe they've told you information 325 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: or a story about their personal life that feels a 326 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: little bit off. When we're interviewing people, not only are 327 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 1: we looking at the obvious things, we're also just picking 328 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: up on tiny little things as well, or things that 329 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: could be tiny, little red flags if they've said something 330 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: that's a little too personal or told you a story 331 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: about their partner or their life. We just take note 332 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: of absolutely everything. 333 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: I want to jump in with like another perspective on 334 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: this last year, I went through a bit of trouble 335 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: with getting a new job. I left a previous workplace 336 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 2: because I wasn't quite happy with the culture. I didn't 337 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 2: find it very positive, and so coming into interviews, I 338 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 2: had noticed in myself that I perhaps was coming on 339 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 2: a little too strong because I was so and I 340 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: don't want to say desperate, but so anxious to land 341 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 2: the job that you kind of find yourself doing everything 342 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 2: you can to prove that you are the right person 343 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 2: for the job, and sometimes you're doing that even though 344 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 2: you could be that right person. I can understand why 345 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: it can come across differently to the employer. Yeah, and 346 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: I think some advice if you've come from a workplace 347 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 2: where you haven't had the best experience, never bad mouth them, but. 348 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: You can say it in a different way. 349 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 2: You say it a different way. You can say, you 350 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 2: know what, the I didn't quite enjoy the culture in 351 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 2: that workplace, or I didn't align with the values of 352 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,479 Speaker 2: that workplace, and it kind of softens that negativity that 353 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: came with it. 354 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you do, if you do get the 355 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: role eventually, I'm sure you will then speak with your 356 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: new work place about your experiences that you had at 357 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: the past one. But it can be a bit of 358 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: a red flag if someone comes in and they're like, 359 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: I work here, they were bitches, they did this, they 360 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: talk behind my back, Like, of course, we're going to 361 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: take that person's worry for it. 362 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: They very well may have been that way. 363 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: Yes exactly, but us on the other side, we're like, 364 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: oh shit, Like obviously there's always two sides to every story. 365 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: But we're always weary with that kind of stuff. It's like, 366 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: of course, we want to believe this person if they've 367 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: had a horrible experience at that company, but also that's 368 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: not our business or our thing to worry about. And 369 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: is this person speaking truthfully or you know? So, Yeah, 370 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: that's great advice, and that would be my advice too, 371 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: is you can say that you've had a bad experience 372 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: in the past, but it is better to keep it light, 373 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: especially for those first interview rounds, and just say, yeah, 374 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: I was working here, but I didn't quite enjoy the culture. 375 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: You can say little soft things like that, and then 376 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: once you get the job with us, you can tell 377 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: us all about them and we'll hear all the gossip 378 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: about your past workplace. Another thing when it comes to 379 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: hiring is if there's one thing that interviewing and hiring 380 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: people has taught me, it's the importance of trusting your 381 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: gut above all the technical shit. Trusting your gut is 382 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 1: something that I think we all sleep on. Whilst data 383 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: and structured evaluations are obviously essential, don't underestimate the power 384 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: of your gut instinct. Nine times out of ten, your 385 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: gut feeling is always right, Like I think it always 386 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,119 Speaker 1: is in life, and the same goes when hiring people. 387 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: An applicant could be ticking all of the boxes, even 388 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: to the point where they feel like they're almost too 389 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: good to be true. But maybe your gut is trying 390 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: to tell you something. So what do you do in 391 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: that instance where something just feels off? And I've experienced 392 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: this myself, So what are some things you can do 393 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: if you are having that gut feeling. One thing that 394 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: you can do is reflect on past experiences. Think about 395 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: previous hires and your initial feelings about them. What were 396 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: the outcomes. This can help you understand your intuitions better. 397 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 1: The next thing you can do discuss it with your team. 398 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: If you have a gut feeling about a candidate, talk 399 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: it over with your hiring team. They might have noticed 400 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: similar things or can provide different perspective. I'd say it's 401 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: also really important when hiring anyone to have a second 402 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: person sitting in on all of the interviews. It's great 403 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 1: to have that alternative opinion, and that's what we do 404 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: at FATE. There's always two people in the interviews. And 405 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: even if you don't want it to be intimidating, because 406 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: I know you know, if you jump on an interview 407 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: and there's two people on the other side of the screen, 408 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: it can feel a little more intimidating. Have one person 409 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: on the screen and someone just sitting on the other 410 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: side of the computer just listening, like they don't even 411 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: have to see the person. It's just a second set 412 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: of ears to give a different opinion. And what we 413 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: found as well with that is it's so good having 414 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: two people's opinions because they'll both pick up on different 415 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: things in different ways. I'll interview someone, not that I 416 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 1: interview people these days, but in the past, I'll be 417 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: listening in on the interview and the other person that's 418 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: conducting the interview with me will be like, well, I 419 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: like this, and then I'll go but she said this, 420 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 1: you know, and there's just two different opinions looking at 421 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: the one situation. It's really beneficial. So if you have 422 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: the opportunity to have that second person in there, always 423 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: have that second person. If your gut is giving you 424 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: a weird feeling, the other thing that you can do 425 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: is just dig deeper. If something feels off, ask more questions, 426 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: dive deeper into areas that triggered that gut. Feeling, just 427 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: to see if your concerns are valid. And the last 428 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: thing I'd suggest is take your time, don't rush the 429 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: decision making process. Sometimes giving yourself a bit of time 430 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: can help clarify your feelings and thoughts about a candidate. 431 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: Sleep on it and see how you feel the next day. 432 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: Let's get onto reference checks. My first question is do 433 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 1: you always need to do reference checks? First? I think 434 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: you have to think about the roles responsibility level. For 435 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: high state positions such as senior management or roles with 436 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: significant financial responsibilities, reference checks are going to be pretty crucial. 437 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 1: Reference checks provide an additional layer of assurance that the 438 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: candidate is reliable and it has a proven track record. 439 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: For entry level positions, while they're still beneficial, the necessity 440 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: might not be as critical and you might weigh other 441 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: aspects more heavily. For example, with us, if we're hiring 442 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: a retail store casual like, we're probably not going to 443 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: go to the effort of them calling their references, you know, 444 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: because they might be younger, and they've just had a 445 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: couple of jobs so far, they've done the physical trial, 446 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: we've seen them interact with our customers. There's no need 447 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: to then call their references kind of thing, Whereas if 448 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: you're hiring, I guess for a more higher level, then 449 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: maybe you do want to do some reference checks before 450 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: making such a big commitment and have someone coming high 451 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: up in your business. I feel like over the years, 452 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: references have really changed. I remember when I was out 453 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: in the workforce and I had my resume, like I 454 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: just had my references written there on my resume. But 455 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: now it's changed. I can understand why. I'm all for 456 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: you getting to the point where the employer needs to 457 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: ask for them. I don't think there's any point in 458 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: people having them on their resume for you to call 459 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: it any given point. And also I always think of 460 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: people that are in sticky situations when it comes to references, 461 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: like maybe they've seen the job ad and they're like, 462 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: oh my god, I really want to apply, So then 463 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: they're going through the interview process while still employed, so 464 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: of course they're not going to put their current manager 465 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: on their resume. So it can be a bit of 466 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: a sticky situation for a lot of applicants when it's 467 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: like I'm happy to give you my reference, but I 468 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: don't really want to because I'm still working there and 469 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: they don't know that I've applied, and what if I 470 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: don't get the job, then that's really awkward if they 471 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: don't get the job. So it can be a bit 472 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: of a tricky area for everyone involved. But if people 473 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: don't want to give you references for whatever reason, that 474 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: may suggest that they have something to hide or a 475 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: lack of strong professional relationships, give or take, you've got 476 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: a it's a tricky one. One thing that I always 477 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: think is how easily people could lie when it comes 478 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: to their references. And like, I'm sure people do this, 479 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: Like I think people would put people as their references, 480 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: but maybe it's like their auntie or their cousin or whatever. 481 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: Like I think people would do that often. And we'll 482 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: always give people the benefit of the doubt and think 483 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: that they're being well and true. But one thing that 484 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: I would do, if you are getting a gut feeling 485 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: about an applicant, Mind you, by the point where you're 486 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: going to call a reference, you don't really have any 487 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: more gut feelings about them, like you're feeling pretty confident 488 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: in them. But if for whatever reason, you are calling 489 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: references and you have a weird gut feeling or whatever, 490 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: I'd go as far as asking the reference really specific 491 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: questions that no one could lie about, like so what 492 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: was your role, what's your role in the company, And 493 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: like I'd ask the reference person questions if for any 494 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,160 Speaker 1: reason that I was suspicious. But for us, if where 495 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,959 Speaker 1: getting to the stage where we're calling someone's references, we're 496 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 1: pretty keen on this person, like we want to give 497 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: them the job kind of thing. Another thing to also 498 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: watch out for is overly positive references. It might seem counterintuitive, 499 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: but references that are excessively glowing without any mention of 500 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: any areas for improvement, it can be a bit suspicious 501 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, no one is perfect, 502 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: and a balanced reference usually includes both strengths and areas 503 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: where the candidate can grow. If a reference sounds more 504 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: like a promotional pitch than an honest evaluation, it's worth 505 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: considering why that may be. I myself have dealt with 506 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: this personally. An applicant that was applying for a management 507 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: role with us seemed almost so amazing that it was 508 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: too good to be true, and we were just having 509 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: this gut filling myself and two of our managers. We're like, 510 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: oh my god, we love this applicant, but this all 511 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: seems too good to be true, Like she seems way 512 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: too overqualified and amazing, and like she knocked us out 513 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: out of the park with her interview. Like we had 514 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: that gut feeling, and so we called two of her references, 515 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 1: and the two references also absolutely knocked our socks off. 516 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: It was just it was this gut feeling that we 517 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: all had, but we went ahead with offering the applicant 518 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: the position, and a couple of weeks later, it absolutely 519 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: bit us in the butt and we were completely ghosted 520 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: when the person was meant to be starting their position. 521 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: I'm talking ghosted, like not showing up, not answering calls. 522 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: I have no bad feelings or whatever, but it was 523 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: the most confusing thing that we've ever experienced, because like 524 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,040 Speaker 1: what do you do? And it's like we should have 525 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: trusted our gut when we were saying, this applicant is 526 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: too good to be true, like it was so amazing 527 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: that it almost seemed like a lie, and then we 528 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: were just ghosted. And what do you do when you've 529 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: hired someone, given them the job, done the interview, done 530 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 1: a bit of training, this, that and the other, and 531 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 1: they just ghost you we called the emergency contact and 532 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: that was also weird, like it's a weird thing to experience, 533 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: But that right there is an example of you need 534 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: to trust your gut when things don't seem right, because 535 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: your gut is always right. To sum it up with 536 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: reference checks, Whilst they're not always crucial, they can be 537 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: a gold mine of information if conducted correctly. When calling references, 538 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: make sure you're thorough, ask probing questions, and look out 539 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: for any red flags to ensure you get an accurate 540 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: picture of the candidate. References are your chance to verify 541 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: the information provided during the interview process and to uncover 542 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: any potential issues that weren't immediately apparent. So let's wrap 543 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: up with some actionable tips to help you refine your 544 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,679 Speaker 1: hiring strategy and ensure that you're bringing the best people 545 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: onto your team. First and foremost, like all things in business, 546 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: it begins with you create a structured interview process. Consistency 547 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: is key when evaluating candidates. Develop a standard set of 548 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: questions and criteria for each stage of the interview process, 549 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: from the initial application to the final interview. This not 550 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: only helps you compare candidates more effectively, but it also 551 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: ensures fairness and reduces unconscious bias. When I started Fate, 552 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: we had no structure in anything we did. I know, 553 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: I've said this a billion times, and over the years 554 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: we've really built those structures. So even when it comes 555 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: to things like your interviews, have structures in place, have 556 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: the same questions that you are asking every single person 557 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: for every single interview. It makes everything fair and it 558 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: also makes it easier for you as well, because you 559 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: know what each interview is going to essentially look like. Next, 560 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: incorporate multiple perspectives whenever possible, involve those other team members 561 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: in the interview process. Having different viewpoints can help you 562 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: catch potential red flags that you might miss on your own. 563 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: While it's important to trust your gut and the impressions 564 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: you form during interviews, always back these feelings up with 565 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: concrete evidence by doing reference checks, even skills tests like 566 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: if there's a physical element. Obviously not lifting weights, but 567 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,959 Speaker 1: getting them involved in your business for a trial shift 568 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: can always be a good option. And finally, don't rush 569 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: the process. Hiring the right person takes time, and it's 570 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: worth investing that time to avoid costly mistakes down the road. 571 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: If you're unsure about a candidate. It's better to take 572 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: a little longer to make the right decision than to 573 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: hire hastily and regret it later on. Trust me, being there, 574 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: done that, and that's it. Thanks for listening, my friends. 575 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: I hope you've all gotten a thing or two out 576 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: of today's episode. I'm going to leave you with my 577 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: tip of the week, and that is verified that references 578 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,719 Speaker 1: are real. I think there could be people out there 579 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: who are shady and getting their auntie to pretend that 580 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: they're their manager. If you are ever doing reference checks, 581 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: even though you're at a good point by that point 582 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: and you know you want to give the applicant the job, 583 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,479 Speaker 1: ask the person on the other end of the phone 584 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: just a few questions to verify that they are who 585 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: they say they are. Anyway, make sure to subscribe internal 586 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: notifications so you don't miss out on any of my 587 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: future episodes. I upload a main episode every Monday and 588 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: my bonus episodes on Wednesdays. And if you haven't raded 589 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: me five stars yet, I would really appreciate it. Until 590 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: next time, make sure you chase after those dreams as 591 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: if they owe you money.