WEBVTT - Credlin | 14 October 0:00:01.930 --> 0:00:06.620 Peter Credlin, live from News 24. 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:09.770 Good evening, welcome to the program. 0:00:09.869 --> 0:00:12.809 Tonight, as I said to you last evening, I'll bring 0:00:12.850 --> 0:00:16.410 you more of my special investigation into taxpayer grants awarded 0:00:16.450 --> 0:00:19.950 to the Melbourne Muslim Group, my centre, and links to 0:00:19.989 --> 0:00:24.189 the Melbourne Imam, Samir Abu Hamzi Matadi. It's a group 0:00:24.210 --> 0:00:26.610 that's been drawn into the spotlight on the weekend as 0:00:26.650 --> 0:00:30.670 the AFP confirm they're investigating claims it's linked to the 0:00:30.750 --> 0:00:34.870 Fly Dubai co-pilot who allegedly tried to down that recent 0:00:34.930 --> 0:00:38.930 flight en route to Israel. Here's what else is on 0:00:38.950 --> 0:00:41.710 the show this evening. More questions tonight too for the 0:00:41.750 --> 0:00:47.160 Prime Minister. Taxpayer grants in the spotlight in Canberra. Multicultural 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:48.739 groups under close scrutiny. 0:00:48.740 --> 0:00:50.820 $ 300, 000. 0:00:49.260 --> 0:00:56.340 Cancelled today for an Islamic media organisation which claimed anti-Semitic 0:00:56.420 --> 0:01:00.820 tax in the lead up to Bondi were fake. Pressure 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.600 mounting on Labor over its support or lack thereof for 0:01:03.660 --> 0:01:07.300 small business on the brink as Minister Anne Arley struggles 0:01:07.459 --> 0:01:11.300 again in question time. We'll cross live to Sophie Ellsworth 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:13.840 in the UK where an alarming report found that four 0:01:14.140 --> 0:01:19.200 in five new jobs created in Britain since 2014 have been. 0:01:19.060 --> 0:01:20.420 Filled by migrants. 0:01:21.100 --> 0:01:23.500 And Annika Wells today trying to convince us the government's 0:01:23.620 --> 0:01:27.620 use of fake online accounts has got nothing to do 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:28.819 with censorship. 0:01:29.420 --> 0:01:33.000 We think that we should be able to mark tech platforms' homework. 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:35.260 They should not get to mark their own homework. 0:01:37.569 --> 0:01:40.830 But first, as I foreshadowed, I want to revisit the 0:01:40.870 --> 0:01:45.660 Melbourne Muslim Organisation identified by authorities in the United Arab 0:01:45.819 --> 0:01:50.360 Emirates in connection with the investigation into the fly-to-buy co-pilot 0:01:50.380 --> 0:01:53.860 accused of attempting to bring down a passenger aircraft en 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.740 route to Israel. According to the UAE Attorney General, the 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:03.460 accused co-pilot became acquainted with individuals associated with a Melbourne 0:02:03.500 --> 0:02:08.280 Islamic organisation known as My Centre while studying in Australia 0:02:08.300 --> 0:02:13.310 at Melbourne's RMIT. My Centre is registered with the Australian 0:02:13.370 --> 0:02:19.210 Charities and Not-for-Profits Commission under the name Multicultural Youth Centre Limited. 0:02:19.810 --> 0:02:24.389 And there's another organisation with direct historical ties to My Centre. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:29.419 It's called the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australia, 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:37.280 or IISNA. According to the Charities Commission, both organisations share 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.850 the same registered address. But the connection goes much further 0:02:41.889 --> 0:02:48.980 than that. My Centre's own official website confirms that AISNA 0:02:49.500 --> 0:02:53.970 announced plans to establish My Centre back in 2010. In fact, 0:02:54.010 --> 0:03:00.100 the website identifies IISNA as having been founded by Melbourne 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.380 Islamic preacher Samir Mokhtari, also known as Abu Hamza. So 0:03:05.419 --> 0:03:10.060 these aren't simply two organisations that share an address. My 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:17.510 Centre's own published history establishes a direct connection between them both. Yesterday, 0:03:17.570 --> 0:03:20.549 the man at the heart of these organisations, Sumir Bakhtari, 0:03:21.330 --> 0:03:25.490 issued a statement rejecting the claims that the Fly Dubai co-pilot, 0:03:26.050 --> 0:03:29.270 that he was radicalised in Melbourne after coming into contact 0:03:29.669 --> 0:03:33.330 with the My Centre Muslim group. But he can't deny 0:03:33.389 --> 0:03:36.830 this from his own social media accounts. 0:03:37.670 --> 0:03:40.890 We don't believe in a state called Israel. And I 0:03:40.910 --> 0:03:43.030 swear by God, the Almighty, it's just a matter of time. 0:03:44.510 --> 0:03:46.750 before Palestine will only have one state. 0:03:47.750 --> 0:03:48.390 Only one state. 0:03:48.730 --> 0:03:51.190 The state of Palestine. I've always said and I've always 0:03:51.250 --> 0:03:56.170 believed that these Zionists are not normal. They're blood-sucking human beings. 0:03:57.590 --> 0:04:01.360 They're scavengers. They're not humans. I swear by Allah. 0:04:02.990 --> 0:04:05.790 Nor can the Imam dispute evidence that he gave in 0:04:05.870 --> 0:04:09.350 court in the 2008 trial of convicted terrorist Ben Barika 0:04:09.370 --> 0:04:12.940 that many Muslims, he said, regarded Osama bin Laden as 0:04:12.980 --> 0:04:17.750 a good man, him included. And he admitted there in 0:04:17.790 --> 0:04:22.870 the court proceedings to watching videos of Islamist beheadings. Nor 0:04:22.930 --> 0:04:26.390 can Samir Mohtadi hide from a sermon he gave in 0:04:26.390 --> 0:04:29.400 2003 where he said it was permissible for men to 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.839 rape their wives in marriage and to beat them provided 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.700 that no bruising occurred as a result. Comments that when 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.640 they surfaced, then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd called out as 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:41.200 he should. 0:04:42.140 --> 0:04:44.039 But as un-Australian as. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:48.080 Those views are, as shocking and reprehensible as they are, 0:04:48.700 --> 0:04:52.150 they are not my focus tonight. Instead, I raise some 0:04:52.190 --> 0:04:58.289 serious concerns about this Islamic organisation and Labor too, state 0:04:58.330 --> 0:05:01.230 and federal, given the hundreds of thousands of dollars of 0:05:01.290 --> 0:05:05.740 taxpayer money that's been handed over. Most concerning is the 0:05:05.779 --> 0:05:09.670 fact that the independent auditor for my centre is issued 0:05:09.700 --> 0:05:14.330 a qualified audit opinion in last year's documentation because it 0:05:14.410 --> 0:05:19.150 could not fully verify its cash donations. And this is 0:05:19.310 --> 0:05:24.510 especially interesting because similar concerns about cash controls were raised 0:05:24.570 --> 0:05:30.790 in the organisation's 2021 and 2022 audits. And there's another 0:05:30.850 --> 0:05:35.150 concerning finding in last year's audit where the auditor reported 0:05:35.210 --> 0:05:38.990 that he could not obtain the documentation for a Victorian 0:05:39.110 --> 0:05:46.010 government grant worth almost $ 240, 000. The auditor also said he 0:05:46.050 --> 0:05:50.610 was unable to verify whether the grant revenue had been 0:05:50.730 --> 0:05:56.910 recognised in accordance with the agreement's requirements. Now, interestingly, that 0:05:57.110 --> 0:06:01.680 qualified audit report was signed in August last year, just 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:07.000 months after the board was reshuffled and a new constitution appeared. Now, 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:10.850 I don't know whether the constitutional changes were connected to 0:06:10.990 --> 0:06:16.510 earlier audit concerns, but the timing certainly warrants further questions. 0:06:17.230 --> 0:06:19.330 Some of the other key findings in the auditor's report 0:06:19.350 --> 0:06:23.650 include the following, that my centre's financial statements disclose an 0:06:23.690 --> 0:06:28.860 amount of $ 1. 15 million recorded as a financial asset under 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:34.200 the name Maktari MS in 2024, which had been reduced 0:06:34.260 --> 0:06:39.520 to a zero balance by June 2025. Now, this could 0:06:39.580 --> 0:06:43.120 be a loan, but that's not clear. What we do 0:06:43.180 --> 0:06:49.110 know is that my centre's longstanding director, Sameer Mokhtari, the Imam, 0:06:49.580 --> 0:06:52.940 also known as Sheikh Abu Hamza, the man who gave 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.750 that evidence in the Ben Brika case, according to Osama 0:06:55.770 --> 0:06:59.330 bin Laden, and the beheadings. Now, I've checked all the 0:06:59.410 --> 0:07:03.370 publicly available records I can and haven't been able to 0:07:03.430 --> 0:07:07.670 establish his middle name or confirm the identity of the 0:07:07.750 --> 0:07:13.520 individual listed in the accounts as Mokhtari MS. But the 0:07:13.540 --> 0:07:17.400 shared surname does raise the legitimate question about whether the 0:07:17.420 --> 0:07:22.340 borrower has any connection to the organisation's leadership, although again, 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.730 currently no evidence to confirm that. But given the substantial 0:07:27.930 --> 0:07:33.530 amount involved, $ 1. 15 million, I think it's worth investigating who 0:07:33.570 --> 0:07:37.670 received the original loan, why a registered charity advanced anyone 0:07:37.670 --> 0:07:41.239 $ 1. 15 million in the first place, whether it was a 0:07:41.420 --> 0:07:46.560 related party transaction and how the amount was ultimately settled. 0:07:47.420 --> 0:07:52.580 In the audit report, questions are also raised about a 54% 0:07:52.580 --> 0:07:57.540 increase in cash donations with the auditors specifically qualifying the 0:07:57.620 --> 0:08:02.980 accounts because controls over the collection of cash donations before 0:08:03.020 --> 0:08:09.080 their entry into financial records were insufficient to establish completeness. 0:08:09.980 --> 0:08:14.200 There's also been significant changes to the My Centre board. 0:08:14.780 --> 0:08:20.530 In 2024, it listed just three directors, Sumia Mohtadi, Jalal 0:08:20.590 --> 0:08:22.510 Suid and Murat Salik. 0:08:23.220 --> 0:08:24.820 But between February. 0:08:24.540 --> 0:08:29.700 And March last year, five new directors were appointed, including 0:08:29.980 --> 0:08:37.040 Ali Abdullah Mokhtari, Omar Mokhtari and Hamza Mokhtari. That means 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:40.570 that four of the organisation's seven directors all share the 0:08:40.610 --> 0:08:45.250 Mokhtari surname. And just two months after this change, On 0:08:45.270 --> 0:08:48.730 the 2nd of May, the day before last year's federal election, 0:08:49.450 --> 0:08:53.530 a new constitution appeared on the website for the charities regulator, 0:08:54.110 --> 0:08:58.170 restricting membership to a limited number of trustees, all having 0:08:58.270 --> 0:09:05.790 substantial power over appointments, financial policy and property transactions. So 0:09:05.990 --> 0:09:10.230 just who are these trustees and who ultimately approves the 0:09:10.290 --> 0:09:13.650 organisation's substantial financial dealings? 0:09:14.340 --> 0:09:15.040 That's a question. 0:09:15.820 --> 0:09:18.900 Also worth looking at is My Centre's disclosure of another 0:09:19.059 --> 0:09:24.360 multi-million dollar transaction, this one with an outstanding amount of 0:09:24.420 --> 0:09:29.559 almost $ 1. 5 million from the Islamic Information and Services Network. 0:09:29.250 --> 0:09:32.690 Of Australasia, IISNA. 0:09:33.429 --> 0:09:36.710 This is an organisation also connected to Samir Moqtadi and 0:09:36.750 --> 0:09:41.650 it shares the same registered address as My Centre. According 0:09:41.750 --> 0:09:45.079 to the documentation, this is associated with the acquisition of 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:48.960 land in Mickleham, whereas the Herald Sun reports today there 0:09:48.980 --> 0:09:53.380 are plans to build Australia's largest Islamic centre, including a 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:57.809 new mega mosque, separate sex primary schools and high schools, 0:09:58.290 --> 0:09:58.990 as well as. 0:09:58.910 --> 0:09:59.949 A retirement village. 0:10:00.890 --> 0:10:03.800 According to the Herald Sun, concerned locals say they oppose 0:10:03.820 --> 0:10:07.060 these plans for the mega mosque, noting that similar plans 0:10:07.100 --> 0:10:11.939 for a nearby Christian school were rejected because of traffic concerns. Now, 0:10:11.980 --> 0:10:17.120 right now, Labor's State Planning Minister Sonia Kilkenny, well, she's 0:10:17.179 --> 0:10:20.120 got this application for the mega mosque on her desk 0:10:20.710 --> 0:10:24.110 after they applied for a ministerial planning permit back in May. 0:10:25.090 --> 0:10:28.090 With a state election due in now just 46 days, 0:10:28.770 --> 0:10:31.830 pressure will be piled on Kilkenny to approve the mega 0:10:31.850 --> 0:10:35.070 mosque lest Labor get thrown out of office and the 0:10:35.110 --> 0:10:39.559 plans get cancelled by Jess Wilson. Worth noting also is 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:46.439 the almost $ 36, 000 donation from my centre to the Mokhtari-connected organisation, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.260 Islamic Information and Services Network. 0:10:51.100 --> 0:10:51.820 And there's more. 0:10:52.420 --> 0:10:56.380 Last year, my centre received $ 1. 17 million in rental income 0:10:56.940 --> 0:11:01.440 from the related entity, My College Limited, and that's up 0:11:01.540 --> 0:11:02.860 from just. 0:11:02.590 --> 0:11:03.660 $ 486, 000 the previous year. 0:11:07.770 --> 0:11:13.640 That's a whopping increase in rent in the order of 140%. 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:19.700 My centre has also had a $ 150, 000 unsecured interest-free loan 0:11:19.740 --> 0:11:25.400 outstanding to my college with no fixed repayment terms. So 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.380 what's this all mean? We now have a charity receiving 0:11:29.500 --> 0:11:34.790 substantial taxpayer funding from both state and federal Labor governments 0:11:35.340 --> 0:11:39.160 holding more than 20 million now in assets, engaging in 0:11:39.220 --> 0:11:45.460 significant related party transactions and receiving a qualified audit opinion 0:11:45.820 --> 0:11:47.360 concerning cash donations. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.540 To date, taxpayers have paid out. 0:11:50.500 --> 0:11:54.089 Hundreds of thousands of dollars to this organisation, My Centre, 0:11:54.630 --> 0:11:57.390 handed over by State Labor, the Allen Labor Government in 0:11:57.429 --> 0:12:01.730 Victoria and the Albanese Government in Canberra. Just on the 0:12:01.770 --> 0:12:07.180 information in audit reports alone, Legitimate questions are there about 0:12:07.250 --> 0:12:11.270 financial transparency, governance and what sort of due diligence has 0:12:11.330 --> 0:12:16.189 been undertaken by state and federal Labor governments before your 0:12:16.270 --> 0:12:21.010 money was handed over. In particular, I'd be interested to 0:12:21.070 --> 0:12:24.699 know whether the Victorian and Commonwealth governments reviewed those qualified 0:12:24.820 --> 0:12:29.500 audit opinions, those related party transactions, and looked at the 0:12:29.540 --> 0:12:33.739 financial controls before any of this money was handed over. 0:12:34.540 --> 0:12:37.040 After all, everything I've told you tonight is all there 0:12:37.100 --> 0:12:41.110 in black and white in the signed 2025 financial documents 0:12:41.670 --> 0:12:45.730 that are all filed and publicly available on the federal 0:12:45.770 --> 0:12:50.770 government's own Charity Commission's website. Now, given that the Australian 0:12:50.820 --> 0:12:53.880 Federal Police have confirmed to News24 that they are now 0:12:53.940 --> 0:12:59.160 investigating alleged links between the fly-to-buy co-pilot accused of terrorism 0:12:59.820 --> 0:13:05.240 and members of Melbourne's Muslim community, including and connected to 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:10.929 My Centre, well, surely all funding to My Centre must now. 0:13:11.150 --> 0:13:12.449 Be immediately suspended. 0:13:13.330 --> 0:13:17.010 In just two months' time, on December 14, Australia will 0:13:17.030 --> 0:13:21.839 stand still to commemorate the one-year anniversary of our worst-ever 0:13:21.940 --> 0:13:27.560 terror attack on our nation's soil. And the idea, the allegation, 0:13:27.580 --> 0:13:32.380 that taxpayers are funding any organisation or any individual in 0:13:32.490 --> 0:13:36.650 any way potentially connected with radical Islam should see urgent 0:13:36.990 --> 0:13:42.050 and immediate action by the Prime Minister. What we cannot tolerate, 0:13:42.090 --> 0:13:45.990 what we must never tolerate, is a government that willfully 0:13:46.110 --> 0:13:49.850 buries its head in the sand or a judiciary that 0:13:49.890 --> 0:13:54.429 bails individuals accused of crimes connected to Islamic State, like 0:13:54.470 --> 0:13:59.880 Mohammed Bakit in Melbourne or the recently returned ISIS brides. 0:14:00.500 --> 0:14:04.500 We can never, ever tolerate that as Australians, but sadly 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:09.060 this is what appears to be happening again and again. 0:14:13.809 --> 0:14:15.689 I know there's a lot of financial detail in there, 0:14:15.710 --> 0:14:19.050 but it is your money and it matters. Head to 0:14:19.070 --> 0:14:22.480 the News24 website for more. Let's go to Cameron now 0:14:22.500 --> 0:14:25.780 for the headlines with our political reporter, Cam Redden. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:27.280 Good evening. 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.640 The Prime Minister and Treasurer are publicly jostling for. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.440 Credit over the ATO credit card intervention. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:39.350 Andrew did text me last Thursday morning and by Friday 0:14:39.410 --> 0:14:42.690 morning we had an announcement. 0:14:43.170 --> 0:14:45.630 Prime Minister and I were in discussions on Wednesday of 0:14:45.670 --> 0:14:48.740 last week. He had a view and I agree with it. 0:14:48.980 --> 0:14:52.340 How much more humiliation does the Treasurer have to endure 0:14:52.740 --> 0:14:55.680 before the Prime Minister puts him out of his misery 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:57.120 and sacks him? 0:14:57.180 --> 0:15:00.770 The bloke who is in danger of being sacked is 0:15:00.830 --> 0:15:01.650 sitting right there. 0:15:02.380 --> 0:15:06.280 Labor will introduce its controversial digital duty of care bill tomorrow. 0:15:06.300 --> 0:15:10.620 Australia's digital duty of care will set basic safety standards 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.630 for the online services we all use every day. 0:15:14.150 --> 0:15:18.350 This is effectively the broadest state surveillance regime I've ever 0:15:18.410 --> 0:15:19.490 seen in Australian law. 0:15:19.990 --> 0:15:22.390 This has a really bad stench about it and I 0:15:22.430 --> 0:15:24.609 think the government needs to go right back to the 0:15:24.630 --> 0:15:25.050 drawing board. 0:15:25.070 --> 0:15:26.010 We won't be supporting this. 0:15:26.350 --> 0:15:27.290 Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra. 0:15:31.410 --> 0:15:33.290 All right, let's bring in now my panel senior fellow 0:15:33.350 --> 0:15:36.590 at the Menzies Research Centre, Nick Cater, and Deputy Executive 0:15:36.610 --> 0:15:39.840 Director at the IPA, Dan Wild. Well, welcome to you both. 0:15:39.890 --> 0:15:41.750 I'll get into all of those issues in a moment, 0:15:41.790 --> 0:15:46.920 but I don't want to miss Labor's new trust tax legislation. 0:15:46.940 --> 0:15:50.800 I mean, concerns about restructuring costs for those with a 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:56.500 trust now could result in a $ 13 billion hit to business. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:58.880 This is extraordinary. Have a listen. 0:15:59.990 --> 0:16:04.880 Today, the Sydney Morning Herald quoted one Labor MP saying, 0:16:05.500 --> 0:16:09.060 tradespeople were told for years to use trusts and are 0:16:09.100 --> 0:16:11.880 now being made to feel like the government is coming 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.520 after them. When will this minister start listening to Australians 0:16:16.580 --> 0:16:21.000 who have a go, axe Labor's toxic taxes impacting thousands 0:16:21.060 --> 0:16:23.480 of tradies and stop waging. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:24.440 War on small business? 0:16:26.150 --> 0:16:30.320 There's a whole lot of Labor MPs now, Nick, leaking 0:16:30.380 --> 0:16:34.300 to the newspapers, clearly unhappy, not just with this issue, 0:16:34.540 --> 0:16:34.840 with the. 0:16:34.820 --> 0:16:37.000 Broader carriage of the budget. 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.800 And, of course, you saw there from Cam Redden, the 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.460 Prime Minister really at odds now with his Treasurer. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.650 What do you make of things? I think it's astounding. 0:16:48.670 --> 0:16:52.130 The Treasurer just seems to be an amateur, rank amateur 0:16:52.350 --> 0:16:55.510 in policymaking. And was there nobody in Treasury, was there 0:16:55.530 --> 0:16:57.460 nobody in his own office who pointed out that if 0:16:57.500 --> 0:17:00.320 you make a change like this to a trust, which 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.820 businesses and small businesses and families have used over the 0:17:03.860 --> 0:17:06.899 years to get them, you know, in order to be 0:17:06.940 --> 0:17:08.760 able to set up their business and get the right 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:11.700 return on the risk they're taking, that it will have 0:17:11.740 --> 0:17:14.930 all sorts of ripple through consequences that you're probably not 0:17:14.990 --> 0:17:17.750 even aware of. You know, I just think that the 0:17:17.910 --> 0:17:21.129 amateur nature of the way this policy was put in, 0:17:21.190 --> 0:17:24.149 they are now reaping the benefit of that. But from 0:17:24.190 --> 0:17:26.649 a small business point of view, of course, it's cumulative. 0:17:26.910 --> 0:17:29.830 You know, small business is resilient. I mean, they will 0:17:29.910 --> 0:17:32.070 work through the night to fill in their BAS if 0:17:32.109 --> 0:17:35.860 they have to. But you just get one after the other. 0:17:36.060 --> 0:17:39.899 And with the tax office now coming down like a 0:17:39.940 --> 0:17:42.459 ton of bricks on anybody who's a minute late with 0:17:42.500 --> 0:17:45.020 their BAS statement and sending them a fine of, you know... 0:17:45.590 --> 0:17:48.510 All this adds up eventually. And of course, the tax 0:17:48.550 --> 0:17:52.300 office changes on credit cards. And that is the point 0:17:52.340 --> 0:17:55.080 at which businesses start to say, look, this is too hard. 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.280 We're going to get out of this. 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:03.530 How do you think business feels, small business, Dan? There's 0:18:03.740 --> 0:18:08.730 all of these pay rises, 25%, 30% for government employees 0:18:08.830 --> 0:18:11.170 that they are, small business, are paying for in their 0:18:11.210 --> 0:18:14.149 taxes like we all are. You've got the IMF saying 0:18:14.170 --> 0:18:16.129 that our inflation risk in Australia is some of the 0:18:16.190 --> 0:18:18.570 worst in the world. We've got talk of high unemployment 0:18:18.590 --> 0:18:21.719 headed our way. We've got now reports today of a 0:18:22.020 --> 0:18:25.600 fifth rate increase. They were saying two before, then they 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.919 said three, now they're talking about five. And yesterday when 0:18:28.940 --> 0:18:30.530 he was trying to gee up court, because the Prime 0:18:30.550 --> 0:18:32.990 Minister's saying, don't worry, we'll be right, we'll be kicking 0:18:33.030 --> 0:18:33.350 with the. 0:18:33.310 --> 0:18:34.369 Wind in the fourth quarter. 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:40.100 Well, the economy is not doing well. As you just 0:18:40.180 --> 0:18:42.880 pointed out, we have high inflation and now the risk 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.180 of rising unemployment. There's a term for that, which is stagflation. 0:18:46.740 --> 0:18:48.649 So this is a real issue. And we've talked about 0:18:48.670 --> 0:18:50.150 this a couple of times, but I want to sort 0:18:50.170 --> 0:18:52.510 of hammer it home, which is that the issue we 0:18:52.530 --> 0:18:54.830 have is a government that is not focused on actually 0:18:54.930 --> 0:18:58.830 growing the economy. It is focused on redistributing what is there. 0:18:59.310 --> 0:19:02.359 I could not name... a single policy that this government 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.100 has that is aimed at actually growing the economy and 0:19:05.140 --> 0:19:07.700 making all Australians better off. But I could name a 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.520 hundred policies they have at redistributing what is already there. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.740 We have a situation where demand is very high because 0:19:13.780 --> 0:19:16.000 of all of this government spending. The RBA has made 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.100 that very clear. We've had mass migration, so more people 0:19:19.140 --> 0:19:22.159 coming in spending more money at the same time as 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:25.550 the productivity of our economy is flat or declining. So 0:19:25.690 --> 0:19:29.250 our supply capacity, our ability as an economy to generate 0:19:29.740 --> 0:19:32.920 wealth to produce wealth is declining at the same time 0:19:32.980 --> 0:19:35.240 as demand is going up. So this is why we 0:19:35.290 --> 0:19:40.149 have the combination of rising prices, slow growth and rising unemployment. 0:19:40.170 --> 0:19:41.210 So this is a real issue. 0:19:41.530 --> 0:19:44.030 And I guarantee you, if the economy keeps going backwards, 0:19:44.410 --> 0:19:47.130 the government is going to do stimulus, which means more 0:19:47.170 --> 0:19:50.600 demand on a wheat economy, which will mean even higher prices. 0:19:50.700 --> 0:19:53.699 So I'm not confident that the government knows exactly how 0:19:53.740 --> 0:19:55.340 to deal with these issues whatsoever. 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:58.879 One of the ways, Nick, you know well, that we 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:00.680 pay our way in the world is what we export 0:20:00.740 --> 0:20:05.370 in terms of resources, mining resources in particular, but also agriculture. 0:20:05.850 --> 0:20:10.020 We had that decision today that Tanya Plevisick's very dubious 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:11.699 push to block. 0:20:11.460 --> 0:20:13.060 The $ 1. 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:15.629 3 billion Blaney gold mine has been overturned in the 0:20:15.690 --> 0:20:19.630 federal court. The whole Indigenous heritage order that she put 0:20:19.690 --> 0:20:25.600 on the project about the whole blue banded bee dreaming story, well, 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:29.520 that was found to have lacked respect procedural fairness. You've 0:20:29.540 --> 0:20:32.310 got this whole issue with scope three emissions where Angus 0:20:32.350 --> 0:20:35.270 Taylor says we will take them out. We will not 0:20:35.310 --> 0:20:39.470 allow Australians to be punished for who burns our coal 0:20:39.550 --> 0:20:41.390 overseas or anything like that. 0:20:41.430 --> 0:20:43.270 It'll be treated like every other export. 0:20:43.869 --> 0:20:47.710 I think there's a reckoning coming about the economy and 0:20:47.970 --> 0:20:48.909 the budget bottom line. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.150 Yeah, you're right, Peter. And look, the consequence of this 0:20:56.530 --> 0:20:59.110 decision is, well, it's very welcome. It's good to see 0:20:59.130 --> 0:21:02.030 the checks and balances kick in. It is open, I understand, 0:21:02.050 --> 0:21:05.410 to the federal government to appeal this decision. Let's, for 0:21:05.450 --> 0:21:09.100 goodness sake, hope they don't. But from the point of 0:21:09.140 --> 0:21:11.280 view of the activists who are driving this kind of 0:21:11.340 --> 0:21:14.960 thing through lawfare and other means, a win for them 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:19.270 is a bonus. But their real intention is to slow 0:21:19.310 --> 0:21:22.909 the whole process down, lock companies up in courts in 0:21:23.190 --> 0:21:26.870 green and black and red tape so that eventually they 0:21:26.910 --> 0:21:29.270 give up because they can't afford to keep putting capital 0:21:29.310 --> 0:21:33.360 into a project that's not producing any revenue. So I 0:21:33.460 --> 0:21:35.740 really hope the government just lets this one through now 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:38.240 and doesn't prolong it any longer because this is the 0:21:38.300 --> 0:21:41.659 way that we've got to drive this country broke and 0:21:41.740 --> 0:21:45.740 stop producing the wealth which has benefited my generation and 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:49.800 your generation but won't benefit the next generation unless we 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:51.910 allow business to get on with what they're doing. 0:21:53.810 --> 0:21:54.969 Dan, I want to go to the issue of this 0:21:55.030 --> 0:21:58.200 digital duty of care. And again, we saw Arnica Wells, 0:21:58.260 --> 0:22:02.760 it'll come into the parliament tomorrow, basically cloak it all 0:22:03.140 --> 0:22:04.680 in protection for children. 0:22:05.330 --> 0:22:07.230 Well, 16-year-olds aren't on social media. 0:22:07.250 --> 0:22:09.050 The government's already got a, well, we know they are, 0:22:09.070 --> 0:22:11.090 but they've already got a law in relation to that. 0:22:11.530 --> 0:22:14.370 We know if it relates to pornography or child exploitation, 0:22:14.410 --> 0:22:15.090 we've got. 0:22:14.910 --> 0:22:16.170 Laws about that now. 0:22:16.670 --> 0:22:20.480 If it relates to terrorist propaganda, we already have laws 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:21.740 in relation to that. 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:24.060 They are all illegal content. 0:22:24.500 --> 0:22:28.800 This is about trying to regulate harmful content, not illegal content, 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:30.720 just things that the government doesn't like. 0:22:31.650 --> 0:22:32.889 All credit to the IPA. 0:22:33.150 --> 0:22:36.950 Thank you for getting Michael Schellenberger to Canberra the other 0:22:36.990 --> 0:22:41.330 day and briefing as many politicians as he can. Give 0:22:41.369 --> 0:22:45.190 me your honest assessment. Can we defeat this legislation? 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:51.480 Well, the legislation can be defeated. Obviously, it won't be 0:22:51.500 --> 0:22:54.639 defeated in the lower house. It'll pass tomorrow. I assume 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:56.760 it's going to pass tomorrow unless there's anything that changes, 0:22:56.780 --> 0:22:58.459 but it's pretty sure it's going to go ahead. But 0:22:58.500 --> 0:23:00.740 it can be defeated. Look, this is the third time 0:23:00.780 --> 0:23:03.980 that this government has tried to engage in widespread censorship. 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:09.310 The first was the misinformation laws back in 2024, and 0:23:09.350 --> 0:23:11.870 they were ultimately defeated. In fact, they were so toxic 0:23:11.930 --> 0:23:14.390 that they weren't even voted on in the Senate because 0:23:14.430 --> 0:23:16.770 they were going to be defeated. Earlier this year, in 0:23:16.790 --> 0:23:18.910 the wake of Bondi, they tried to put in hate 0:23:18.970 --> 0:23:21.440 speech laws. Now, they got the hate group laws through, 0:23:21.780 --> 0:23:24.160 but they tried to do hate speech laws as well. Now, 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:26.680 they were so toxic that they didn't go ahead either. 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:30.040 So I am confident that this can be defeated, but 0:23:30.420 --> 0:23:33.510 it is going to take some public engagement to do so, 0:23:33.570 --> 0:23:36.070 because the only way the government can pass this is 0:23:36.130 --> 0:23:38.510 if they do a deal with the Greens in the Senate. Now, 0:23:38.550 --> 0:23:40.609 what's interesting about this is the Greens used to be 0:23:40.630 --> 0:23:42.409 the party of civil liberties. You know, when I was 0:23:42.450 --> 0:23:45.169 growing up, they were there to protect people's freedoms and 0:23:45.210 --> 0:23:47.340 civil liberties and the right to protest and so forth. 0:23:47.730 --> 0:23:51.300 And to their credit, they did oppose the misinformation laws 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.020 two years ago. I don't know why they're now supporting 0:23:54.060 --> 0:23:56.240 these laws. They've indicated that they will support the laws 0:23:56.300 --> 0:23:59.020 in some form. But I think a lot of pressure 0:23:59.060 --> 0:24:02.410 that is put on politicians from Labor and Greens will 0:24:02.430 --> 0:24:06.450 work because you've seen Albanese and Annika Wells. They can't 0:24:06.530 --> 0:24:07.109 explain it. 0:24:07.690 --> 0:24:07.850 Right. 0:24:07.890 --> 0:24:11.070 When they are subject to questioning, they cannot explain or 0:24:11.109 --> 0:24:14.920 defend these laws because, frankly, they are indefensible. So, yes, 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.859 they can be defeated, but it is an uphill battle. 0:24:17.900 --> 0:24:19.940 We've got about five weeks to do so, by the way, 0:24:20.020 --> 0:24:22.440 because it'll be the last sitting week in November that 0:24:22.460 --> 0:24:23.580 they try to get it through the Senate. 0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:27.300 Yeah, they'll try and ram it through with a guillotine. Dan, 0:24:27.380 --> 0:24:30.920 you're a great campaigner. The IPA are great campaigners. How 0:24:30.980 --> 0:24:32.280