WEBVTT - The Late Debate | 15 August 0:00:02.320 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome to the Late Debate. 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:07.280 Good evening. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.560 I'm James Macpherson with Liz Storer and Caleb Bond. Coming up, 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:14.760 council parking permits being sold on the black market. We'll 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:16.760 tell you what's going on there. And when we look 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.880 at the papers, Queensland Premier Stephen Miles throwing huge amounts 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.439 of money at a mining giant, though we won't say 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.479 exactly how much, and a Melbourne council's radical plan to 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:31.440 lower power prices. But first we've got massive breaking news 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:32.560 here on the Late Debate. 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:34.639 About hour ago that. 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:41.160 Australian breakdancing sensation Rachel Gunn aka Big Girl ray Gun, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.440 she broke her silence about that Olympic Can we call 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:48.960 it a performance? Finally talking about what happened, releasing this 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:50.720 statement on Instagram. 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.000 Have a listen, Hi, everyone, Raygun here. 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.440 I just want to start by thanking all the people 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:00.760 who supported me. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:06.680 I really appreciate the positivity and I'm glad I was 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:09.760 able to bring some joy into your lives. That's what 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:14.759 I hoped. I didn't realize that that would also open 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.520 the door to so much hate, which has frankly been 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:20.560 pretty devastating. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:23.880 I don't know about hate Caleb, but she certainly brought 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:24.600 a lot of joy. 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:26.720 I mean, I laughed myself silly at that performance. 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.360 How I was glad that when I actually watched it live, 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.520 because I had the unfortunate chance to sit down on 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:35.240 the couch at about half past midnight last Friday and 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:37.679 watch it live, that I was about a bottle of 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:40.000 red deep at that point. Because if I wasn't a 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:42.160 bottle of red Deep, I may will have cried myself 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.520 to sleep that night. I mean, look, you know, I 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.080 understand that it's hard when you're in the public eye 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.040 and you get criticized, etc. But if you go to 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.520 the Olympic Games to represent your country, the whole country 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:59.040 expects you to do well, right, and she didn't do well. 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.200 She went there to compete in a sport where you 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.360 are judged. It's not a well, I mean sport. I 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.040 use the word loosely great breakdancing is. It's not a sport. 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.040 I'm sorry. It ain't a sport. But it's not like 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.760 running or golf or whatever, where you can do it 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.119 based on a score. You have to be judged by 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.840 judges who decide whether or not they liked your performance 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:26.680 based on various techniques and whatever that you have used, 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.240 you are judged. She went to the Olympics to be judged. 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.000 She was judged by the judges. They gave her a 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.480 big bat zero, and then the rest of the world 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.560 judged her performance. What did she expect she was getting 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:39.360 herself in for? 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:41.919 Did you just say technique? I wasn't where there was 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:43.240 any technique, not at all. 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:45.840 I mean, looking some of the other performances, there might 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.480 have been some technique, but you know, seriously, to complain that, 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:52.200 oh my god, there's been always outpouring of hate. There 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.840 hasn't really been hate. It's just been people going what 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:55.840 the hell did we were? 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:59.320 If you didn't see the performance, perhaps you can't relate 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.519 to the outrage because it was objectively terrible. I don't 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.960 think the woman can break dance at all. And the 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.679 funniest part was watching the faces of the crowd in 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.200 the background watching her, because they're all serious breakdancers from 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:16.840 all over the world flown in to compete, and they 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.520 were watching her with mouth open. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:21.880 One of the problems is we don't tell people early 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:23.560 on you know you're just not good. 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:24.560 Don't do it. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.760 I disagree with you, because remember Australian Idol. Right, the 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.799 best episodes in Australian Idol were not when they got 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.360 like the top ten and Guys Sebastian is wowing us. 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.040 All the best episodes were the early ones where you 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:39.080 had these people rock up thinking they were the next yeah, 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.200 you know, Bob Dylan, and they were atrocious. I stopped 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:43.960 watching once they got through the riff raft to the 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:46.240 good people because you know, good people are a dime 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.480 a dozen, but people with illusions of grandeur, those are 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:50.720 the people who are truly entertaining. 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:56.520 She's she's a great entertainer for the risk that. 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:02.400 We're oats for those terrible your crap get out of here. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.920 That's why it shows good because people tuned in to 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.720 watch them be taken down a peg or two and 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.880 people like ray Gun should have been taken down a 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:14.040 peg or two. And going back to your point about qualifying, 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:16.839 I think one of the other rules for Australian competitors 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.359 you wanted to qualify was that they already had to 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.960 have a passport, so they couldn't get a passport subsequent 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.600 to qualify, they had to prove that they like it's 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:32.000 just ridiculous anyway, she's broken haha. Her silence good on her. 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:34.760 Something tells me we won't see her competing anywhere again 0:04:34.800 --> 0:04:37.560 anytime soon. And if there's anything good to come of 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:39.880 all of this, it will be that break dancing will 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.400 never return to the Olympics again. And to that, I say, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.040 who Ray just the one song exactly exactly as well. Well, 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:48.720 actually shouldn't have been a once off. It should never 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:51.440 happened in the first place anyway. Be that as it may. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:55.240 Now in Victoria, Dale'sford and anyone who's been to Dallasford 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.159 knows it is a wonderful part of the world. I 0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:01.640 have been there. It has great pubs, great people. It 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:06.480 is a lovely part of Victoria. But Dan Murphy's wanted 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.520 to move into the town, and no wonder because it 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:14.159 is a rapidly growing part of Victoria, very popular holiday spot. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.800 Lots of people have, people with money, I should not 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:21.040 have holiday homes in Victoria. So Dan Murphy's thought, well, 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.080 here's a good place to expand into. They went off 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.560 and applied to set up a shop and they've had 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:30.320 their application denied. Can you believe it on the basis 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.359 that it will be harmful to the community. Now, look, 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.440 there are existing bottle shops in Dalsford, so it's not 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:40.479 as though it's a dry town. And you know we're 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.040 talking about setting up a grog shop in Alice Springs. 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.880 We're talking about you know, bad lands of Dalsford. It's 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:51.400 pretty good territory in Victoria, and the local council Hepburnshire, 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.720 fought hard against Dan Murphy's opening up, and the CEO 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:58.680 of the council, Bradley Thomas said in response to this 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.000 being knocked back by lick A Lison since today. The 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.279 decision which was announced this morning was made namely on 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.800 the basis that granting the license could pose a public risk, 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.920 encourage harm and have adverse social impacts. I mean you'd 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.800 think we were talking about opening up a safe injecting 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:20.320 room or something. Oh, they've already done that in Victoria. Yes, 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.239 that is safe. But you say I want to open 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.480 up a Dan Murphy's shop. No, no, no, that is harmful. 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.360 I mean you have to look that there's a few 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:33.240 things here. Clearly it is the good people of Dalsford 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.960 don't want to the nice country feel of their town 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.760 being ruined by our big dern Murphy's coming in to 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.680 do business. But one wonders as well whether there was 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.480 perhaps a little bit of well, we've got to protect 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.279 the smaller operators who are already in Dalsford from the 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.520 competition of an outfit like Dan Murphy's, which will of 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.120 course necessarily come in with lower prices than the businesses 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.920 that are already there. So who cares. Let's run a 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.760 protection racket for the dog the consumers. 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.680 What's wrong with either of those two things? I mean, 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:05.400 if you want to live in Melbourne, to live in Melbourne. 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.719 But I presume if you move to Dalsford it's because 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.920 you don't want maccas and KFC and Dan Murphy's. You 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:15.080 want your picturesque, sort of quaint Victorian town. And second, 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.440 what's wrong with looking after the local traders? This Dan 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:21.760 Murphy's was going to be three times the size of 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.480 the two existing alcohol outlets put together. So what's wrong 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.080 with preserving the pristine nature of your own community? And 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.080 what's wrong with looking after the locals rather than a 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:32.960 major conglomerate. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.200 Well, we're about looking after the locals. What about providing 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.160 them with some competition to drive prices down exactly? 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.280 I'm not sure how many locals would be happy about this. 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:43.200 They're with locals. 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:47.200 As I'm about to get to that. But the population 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:52.120 of Dalsford is ten thousand people. So for two hundred people, I. 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.600 Think it's only three things scupperr. 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.320 No, no, no, I checked it before I came online. For 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:02.000 two hundred people to scupper the place, I don't know 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.680 that that's entirely fair. And also you do wonder how 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:11.040 many of those two hundred signatures came from the proprietors 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.960 of the current bottle os and or wineries in the region, 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.800 So you do have to wonder. Also what they really 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:24.240 highlighted in their objecting to this was miners drinking. And 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.280 so you've got these miners that they made it all 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:33.240 about the secondary the other I would increase and miners 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.559 would drink more, and there would be more abuse of 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.360 alcohol amongst miners. But the bottom line is if miners 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.760 want to drink, if miners want to get their hands 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.640 on alcohol, they are going to get their hands on out. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:46.880 I've got to pull you up on something. 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.760 The twenty twenty one census, the population of Dallasford was 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.280 two thousand, seven hundred and eighty one, which means just under. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.439 Twenty four population. 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.280 Was it exploded by seven thousand people in it. 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:00.000 It is just under. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:04.240 Dalesford is a growing place. It is a very popular place. 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:05.760 And just about to host the block. 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:08.240 Yeah, and let's be honest here, Like you open a 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:11.960 Dan Murphy's in Dalesford. It's not simply exclusively for the 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:14.600 people of Dalesford. It's for the people of the surrounds 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:16.600 as well. Right, So people might come half an hour 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:17.319 down the road. 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:19.440 Dan Murphy's. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.600 Yeah, well, okay, should go there. Okay, So you're telling 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:24.439 the good people of Dalesford that they have to govern 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:25.960 Balerte and if they want to get. 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.680 Good people at Dalesford have told Dan Murphy's. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.400 We don't want two hundred of them. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.079 Twenty twenty one census, ten percent of the town. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.800 Oh for good. But this is how it always works, right, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.719 This is this is NIMBYism at work. You get a 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.240 small group of people who ban together and fight like 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:46.559 hell and make a lot of noise, the vocal minority, 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.480 we might call them, who fight tooth and nail against development. 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:52.320 And I've seen this when I was when I was 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.160 a local government reporter. I saw it all the time. 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:59.000 It happened all the time. A small group of very 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.760 noisy people fight against in some cases bad development, but 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:07.720 often quite sensible development. Now, Dan Murphy's is a shrewd 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:11.679 and astute business. It will not seek to open up 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.400 a store in a place where it does not think 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.560 it is going to do good business. It's run all 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.160 those numbers before it makes any applications. It knows that 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:25.040 Dalsford is a good market and people will go there. 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.080 If there Murphy's opened up a shop in Dalesford and 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:30.760 no one went there because the good people of Dalsford 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:33.560 have decided they don't like Dan Murphy's, then that would 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.760 be even more funny because they would drum dan Murphy's 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.360 out of town. But the proof of the pudding is 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.280 in the eating, and they won't get to eat the 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.520 pudding because they've gone and scup at it before they 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:44.160 had the chance. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:47.680 And this ruling really is a landmark one because, to 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.040 quote the article, it's the first time this new definition 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:55.400 of harm under the Liquor Control Reform Act has been 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.520 used to refuse a license. So if we're going to 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:03.320 say alcoholism equals harm, well, not even alcoholism, but use 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.560 of alcohol in smaller communities, et cetera. If you're going 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.959 to follow that line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.400 no Dan murphy should exist, because nobody's arguing, oh well, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.520 the existence of this Dan Murphy's isn't going to lend 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:23.360 itself to alcoholism in this community. So it really this 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.680 landmark ruling for me personally, has so many question marks 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.560 around it because it's like, well, if it's not okay 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.920 in Dalesford, why is it okay anywhere? Because if you're 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.520 going to sell alcohol, people are going to drink it, 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.200 people are going to abuse it, Miners are going to 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.920 get their hands on it. The last time I remember 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.400 Dan Murphy's being knocked back of an application was back 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.200 in twenty twenty one and that was in the Northern Territory. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.559 So to this day, there is no dan Murphy's in 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:57.079 the Northern Territory because after five years, which included court battles, 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.720 they were just like, okay, we give up. And obviously 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.760 there was a much stronger case in. 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:04.720 Case. 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:08.040 It was where they wanted to build, it was surrounded 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.360 by dry towns and towns that it had a lot 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:14.360 of problems in the past with alcoholism. So that one 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:18.400 everyone can pay that case, everyone can go okay. Not 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:22.440 in the Northern Territory fair deuce, but this one just 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.800 seems to be no free market. And now the Bottlows 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.800 and other people in the area, the pubs who do 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.520 sell alcohol can keep their prices as high as they 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.480 like because the people of Dalsford have no other option. 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.000 One of the things that made me laugh was in 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.000 the ABC report they quoted the owner of a quote 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.559 boutique distillery in Dlsford who said this was a very 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:45.640 good result of good for the young people. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:46.480 For the young people. 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.240 Oh, I'm sure he was one of those two hundred signatures. 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.000 It's a town with at least two pubs. I've been 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:54.720 to both of them. I mean, maybe they need to 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:57.120 shut one of the pubs down because it's causy harm. 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:58.480 You know, it's harmful. 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:02.320 The pub is harmful, please, all right, aside from drinking, 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.439 that's one of Caleb's great enjoyment pleasures. But we also 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.880 love AFL and there's nothing better than just watching a 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.320 great broadcast on the Telly watching the AFL. But the 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:16.079 AFL are determined to ruin it by insisting on diversity 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:21.040 and inclusion. Their new broadcasting rights deal with radio stations 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.800 and television stations, including Fox tells stipulates that the commentary 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:32.720 teams must provide representation from minority groups. So three AW 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:36.880 Radio asked the AFL boss Andrew Dillon, what exactly does 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.520 it mean to have diversity on a commentary team? And 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.640 the amazing thing was that Andrew Dillon couldn't really answer 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:45.920 the question as to what diversity really means. 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.280 Have a listen, you mean fewer middle aged white men 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.320 like Brian Taylor and James Brayshaw and more, I don't know, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.920 more indigenous commentators, more female commentators, more gay commentators. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.240 What do you actually I don't think it's less of anything. 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:01.400 I think it's just more of but it will. 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.880 Be not necessarily. I continue, here we have we have 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.880 about eight middle aged white men who comment on the 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:10.200 football here hello, Bruce Ever and Tim Lane and Shane 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.680 mcinneses and Matt Gronland and and they do a great job. 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.240 But if we have to have some more diverse commentators, 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:18.880 we'll have to get rid of half of them. We 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:20.920 can't afford to just keep employing more people. 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.480 Well, I think that's you know, that's a call obviously 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:24.560 that AW would make. 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.720 We just pick the best commentator. I mean, I don't 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.120 think especially on radio. No one cares what they look 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:30.920 like or what their background is. They just want to 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.800 know that they're the most interesting and well informed football 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:34.480 people around. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.600 That's right, But I think you get that time when 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.200 you have a diversity of thought and a diversity of background. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.160 It's almost like the AFL boss doesn't understand his audience. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:46.920 He doesn't understand corporate realities, and he doesn't understand football. 0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:49.520 The audience don't care whether it's a gay person, an 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.480 indigenous person, or a stale, pale male calling the game 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.440 as long as they call it well. And in terms 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.760 of commercial realities, if you're going to employ more minority 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.360 groups than by necess you have to get rid of 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:04.040 some of the white guys who are already in jobs. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.720 And third, in terms of understanding football, Caleb, just because 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.480 you're gay, or just because you're indigenous, or just because 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.880 you're white, doesn't mean you are able to call football. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:18.080 It's your experience, not your diversity group that you belong to. 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:20.960 Exactly. It's like thinking that because you're a thirty six 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:23.520 year old academic that you can be a break dancer. 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.680 I mean, for heaven's sake, that there is a reason 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:32.560 that the majority of footy commentators in this country are aging, white, 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:37.320 straight males. It's because predominantly the people who have played 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:39.680 football in the past who have gone on to now 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:45.200 have commentary careers, were straight white males. Now, over time, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.880 that will change. You now have the AFLW and there 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.360 are female commentators, and some of them quite excellent. You 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.280 have great diversity of race moving into the game. There's 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:00.600 obviously great representation of Indigenous people within the game Eddie 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:04.240 Bett's works on Fox Footy. There is now great representation 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.160 of African players within the game. These things will naturally 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.680 change as there is more representation in the game and 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.840 those people go on to have commentary careers. What the 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.360 AFL is trying to do is reverse engineer it and say, okay, 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.480 we understand that there haven't been that many people of 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.520 those backgrounds in the game yet, but you've got to 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:28.160 force them into commentary positions now. No, they will naturally 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.320 move into those positions over time if they can string 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.280 a few words together. That's just how it works. And 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.800 the point that Tom Elliott is making there is so right. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:39.840 And by the way, he might have noticed his Hawaiian 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.920 shirt that he always wears a Hawaiian shirt. I take 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.480 issue with it, Tom, I like your radio program, I 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.280 don't like your dress since But what he's saying is, look, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.400 we can't just keep adding more and more commentators. And 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.520 he goes on to say in that interview that all 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.080 of the straight white aging males at three AW are 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.400 really worried now that they're going to lose their jobs 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.360 because they're going to have to be sacked so that 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:03.360 the broadcaster can comply with these rules and go and 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.640 find some gay black person to sit in the chair 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.520 for them. Well, I don't want a gay black person 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.960 telling me about the football if they haven't played football 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:13.520 or they don't know about football. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:14.720 Well I want to know when we're going to have 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:19.080 a gay or a black AFL CEO book. But that's 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.240 where you Andrew Dillon's not going intoutly by example. 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.479 And of course Gillan McLaughlin before him was a straight 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:30.240 white male. And Andrew Demitriu straight well actually Demitriu, but 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:30.520 he was a. 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:31.280 North Melbourne manager. 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.000 But still, the other hypocrisy here is we're always taught, 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:38.480 you know, about how important representation is. Parliament should represent 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.560 the community. You know, this group should represent that group. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.280 And so if the commentary team are going to represent 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:49.280 the players. Well, nine of AFL players are white, and 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.200 so you know, if you want representation in the commentary box, well, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:53.399 I reckon, we've about got it. 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:55.760 Well, I want to know what this means now that 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.479 it's written into their broadcast rights agreement. Broadcasting rights be 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:05.000 taken off you if there's not enough diversity in your 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:09.040 commentary team. I mean Australian sports journalist Tom Morris put 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.080 it really well. He's like, basically, this means you can't 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:14.800 just have white men sitting behind a desk for every 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.600 single broadcast that you do. You need to diversify. But 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:22.840 as we've already thoroughly covered off on those other guys 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.159 that play the sport, those are the guys who have 0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:27.680 been doing it their entire lives. Those are the guys 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.840 who grew up dreaming about it, did it, and are 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.119 now on the sidelines because their bodies can't keep it 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.720 up forever, and therefore they're the best to commentate on it. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.760 I like your point, Caleb that if we just gave 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.680 it enough time it'll have we would see those DEI 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.440 hires coming in actually on merit. But what we're talking 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:51.720 about now is further the death of meritocracy at the 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.000 hands of DEI hires and like the people watching aren't 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.679 going to notice that a certain commentator isn't as up 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.560 to scre with the other ones. When they have someone 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.600 sitting at the desk who knows they're underqualified to be there, 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.440 who knows that they're years behind in experience and knowledge 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.680 of the bloats flanking them, and they're just there because well, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.600 it's signed into our broadcast rights that you have to 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:18.080 be here. 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.640 And conversely, when next year we all watch the football 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.640 and we've got, oh, we've got a new commentator, they've 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:24.320 got a woman on the team, and we'll all sit 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.840 here and think she's only there because the broadcasting. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:30.000 This is what you're dis service to her. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 This is what really irks me about it, right because 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.080 I don't think there's anyone who wouldn't be happy to 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.399 see a great female commentator, a great black commentator, a 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.280 great gay commentator. I don't really care. I just want 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:44.480 you to be good at your job. And by trying 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.359 to shoehorn people into these positions who may not be 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.240 the best at their job, it creates a perception that 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.800 if there is a female commentator then they must be rubbish, right, 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:57.760 People automatically go, oh, well, they're only there because they're 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.959 there to fill some diversity spot, right, And you have 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:02.800 And I'm going to go to cricket here. And I 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:08.320 remember maybe six seven years ago hearing Isha Goa commentate 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.320 the cricket on Triple M when Triple M first got 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.080 the cricket rights in Australia. And I'm listening to this 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:15.919 woman in the car one day, never heard of her 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.520 in my life, going, my goodness, she is running rings 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.040 around the blokes here. She is now a major part 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.800 of the Fox cricket coverage. She is, you know, pound 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.960 for pound, one of the best cricket commentators in the world. 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:34.880 She just happens to be an English woman of Indian heritage, right. 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.080 She hasn't got the job because she is a woman 0:20:37.200 --> 0:20:40.359 of Indian heritage. She's got the job because she is 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.520 so darn good at it. And if we just naturally 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.040 allow these people to be found without shoehorning them in, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:49.440 then no one will question them being there. But when 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:51.960 you force them into these roles, people will go I 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.280