WEBVTT - Terry Real // Why Relationships Fall Apart 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.480 Before we jump into this episode, I want to let 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:05.520 you know about something new I've created just for you now. 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:08.320 I've been interviewing health and wellbeing experts for more than 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:10.760 a decade and one question I get asked all the 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.560 time is what brands do you actually use and trust? 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:17.560 So I decided to make it easy. I've created and 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:22.200 curated a well being marketplace featuring products from brands I 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:26.640 genuinely love and have discovered through the years of conversations 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.040 with leading experts. Think of it as your shortcut to 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.640 better choices without having to do all the research yourself. 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:38.960 Head to maritzabarone dot com forward slash loves to explore 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:44.000 my favorite brands and enjoy exclusive discounts along the way. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.960 Just for you, Let's live better together. 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.600 Our culture doesn't acknowledge how difficult we all relationships are, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:56.920 but that's not what we're taught. We're taught that a 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.360 great relationship is all harmony. A great sex life is 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.120 what you had the first weeks of Europe. A great 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:06.200 body is what a seventeen year old you are talking 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:12.480 to the man who coined the phrase normal marital hatred. 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:14.919 No one has ever asked me what I mean. 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:19.160 By that Welcome to the Things you Can't Unhear podcast. 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.960 I'm your host Maritza Barone. Get ready to hear moments 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:27.520 that will help you to see the world differently and 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:32.479 inspire you to become the happiest, healthiest, and kindest version 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:40.560 of you. We don't usually think relationships fall apart because 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:44.200 of one big moment. More often, it's a slow drift, 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:49.440 small disconnections that build over time, the conversations we stop having, 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.080 the resentment we don't address, and the misunderstandings we move 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.560 past without really repairing. Whether you're dating, in a long 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:03.720 term partnership, or married, or somewhere in between, most people 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.200 don't sit out to lose closeness, which just happens quietly. 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.280 Where life gets busy, stress builds, a communication starts to 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:15.880 break down. So what actually causes that shift from connection 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.680 to distance and why does so many of us struggle 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.720 to repair it once it starts. Today's guest is one 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.160 of the most influential voices. 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:27.799 In modern relationship therapy. 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:32.480 Perry Reel is a best selling author, family therapist, and 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.960 the creator of Relational life Therapy, a groundbreaking approach that 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.080 has helped thousands of couples move from conflict and disconnection 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:48.359 back into real, accountable, emotionally honest connection. Known for being direct, insightful, 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:51.799 and deeply human in his work, Terry has spent decades 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.560 sitting with couples on the edge of breakdown and showing 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.760 them what it actually takes to repair love and not 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.160 just talk about it. He is here today to unpack 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.240 my relationships, fall the art, and what it really takes 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:11.400 to build ones at last, Terry Real, Welcome to the 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:12.960 Things you Can On Here podcast. 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.080 It's so nice to have you. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.240 Thank you from the other side of the world. It's 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.760 great to be in conversation with you. 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.440 I just mentioned to you I woke up very early 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:23.680 for this interview. 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.600 And went outside and looked at the sky, and I 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:29.520 thought about how opposite sides of the world's were in 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.120 and about to have this amazing conversation to share with 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:34.960 everyone out there today. It is quite fascinating still that 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:38.000 we can connect in this way from opposite sides of 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:38.840 the globe. 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:38.840 Isn't it? 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:39.680 Yeah? 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.440 It is now. I mentioned to you. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:45.520 That podcast obviously, it's called Things you Can't Unhear, and 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.440 I want to start with that today. Actually, Terry, I 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.680 want you to share with me the things you can't 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.080 un here moment that really change the way you saw things. 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.720 I've been talking about traditional mansualinity with one of my clients, 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:06.600 about the cost of denying argument vulnerabilities and pretending to 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.840 be a tough guy all the time, and he said, well, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.560 you want to know how this gets passed along, let 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.799 me tell you about the transmission of patriarchy. He said. 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.960 I was at one of my kids hockey games, nine 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:23.320 ten year old and on the other team, one of 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.760 the coaches was a father one of the kids. This 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:32.280 father slash coach was screaming at his son about what 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.400 a screw up he was just excreating and shaming in 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.880 front of an audience full of parents watching the game, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.960 screaming at him. And finally the kid had had it 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:49.599 and he started to cry. And then the father started 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.880 screaming at him for crying. And the kid left the 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.320 field and he went up to the stands in all 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.760 of his gear and pulled off his booth, went up 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:02.160 to stand and sat next to his mother front of everybody, 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.640 hundreds of people, and his mother leaned in and went 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.680 to put an arm around him, and he punched her 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.560 in the face. Welcome to the transmission to patriarchy. That 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:21.080 is a story I could never own here and. 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.480 I can absolutely see why. God, this is so much 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:27.800 in that, isn't there? We really do pass on a 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.840 lot of what we're given. And I know your work 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.039 does You've been doing this for decades. Like you said, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.039 you're working with couples. You're really helping them to heal 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.520 their relationships or learn how to have the tools to 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:44.520 hear their relationships. And that is one of the key aspects, 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.320 isn't It is looking at your past and looking how 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:50.360 you've been taught how to love and how to show up. 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.840 And when we jump into that, we can really become 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:58.640 our own person, can't We We can break down what 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.880 we've been given and say no, that doesn't work for me, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.279 that doesn't work for my relationship. I'm going to choose differently. 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.159 I'm going to act differently. Can you talk to me 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.960 about how you help people break that past down so 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:14.720 that they're their person they want to be. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.040 Yeah. Well, I have a million of sayings, and one 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.120 of them is we all marry our unfinished business. We 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.480 all married the next step in our own development. If 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.360 we're lucky, you know when we are you in a relationship. 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.800 Maye, I am, I've been married for almost twenty years. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:34.520 Oh well that's great, congratulations, thank you, pauling in love. 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:40.280 Whether we're too sophisticated a say or not, Hey, this 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:44.000 person's going to complete me. This person's going to give 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.960 me everything that those creeps I grew up with did, 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:52.560 or at the very least, I'm going to avoid whatever 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.679 pain I had in my childhood. Today of your real 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:01.320 marriage comes when you realize the person you picked not 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:07.080 only will not heal you complete, you avoided. The version 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:12.280 you picked is I like to say, exquisitely designed to 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:17.040 stick the spear right into your eyeball. It's like, wait 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.120 a minute. I hired you so you wouldn't abandon me 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.840 like my mom did. I hired you so you were trustworthy, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.600 not like my And here you go, and I'm looking 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.560 at our bank account and here you go, and like, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.160 whatever it is I thought you would never do, guess 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.240 what you just did? And now what? It doesn't mean 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:38.440 you're in a bad relationship. It means you're in a 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:45.640 real relationship. Their imperfections collide with yours, and it is difficult. 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.880 Our culture doesn't acknowledge how difficult real relationships are, but 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:56.160 real relationships. I got this from Ed Tronic, an infant 0:07:56.200 --> 0:08:00.920 observational researcher. Real He looked at mothers and and he 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.680 was one of the first of a generation to stick 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:07.080 a camera in front of mothers and then fathers and infants. 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.400 But before that, all of us therapists extrapolated from listening 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.600 to adults. Now, now let's actually look at what happens. 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:16.720 And what chinal I found is a rhythm of what 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:22.720 he calls harmony, disharmony, and repair, closeness, disruption, a return. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.240 You look at a mother and you know, first there's 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.600 this it's golden, and then there's gas or hunger or 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.920 annoy and then the baby freaks out. Mother tries to sue, 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.600 doesn't work. Then the mother freaks out. Now they're both 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.480 freaked out, and then the nipples accepted, the gas passes, 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.439 and we're back to ed. Had you go to YouTube 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:47.840 and see this rhythm. Forty seconds is the length of 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.679 the tape. Harmony, disharmony, repair, and I say all relationships, 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.120 so does Ed. Now, all relationships are That is the 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:59.199 rhythm of relationships. But that's not what we're taught. We're 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.360 taught a great relationship is all harmony. A great sex 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:05.280 life is what you had the first weeks of your 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.319 A great body is what a seventeen year old had. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:14.080 And in the researchers are really clearer. Childhood trust is 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:21.040 not built from no stress, no danger, all harmony. Childhood 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:26.880 trust is built from surviving the mess of harmony disruption. 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.839 And you know, peek a boo is our first game. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.920 I'm here, I'm not here, I'm here again. Harmony disharmony. Okay, 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:38.439 you are talking to the man who coined the phrase 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:45.079 normal marital hatred. And I've been talking about this for 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:47.920 forty years around the world. No one has ever asked 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.560 me what I mean by that, So I don't know 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.440 how it is for you. But what you are not 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:58.240 taught is that disharmony phase is dark. 0:09:59.320 --> 0:10:01.880 It's horror, it's true, Terry. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.720 I think you know we can sit in that disharmony 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.360 for a long time. I think with my relationship and 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:10.640 in my marriage, we've been together a very long time, 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.320 but we've grown together, but sometimes it's taken a while 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.720 to catch up in between. And there's been times where 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:21.160 disharmony lasted longer than I would have wanted to so 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.800 I think what we've learned over time is that we've 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.440 closed the gap a little bit in that time frame 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.079 where disharmony sits. 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:31.480 What's the key there? 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.080 Do you think there are two reasons why we don't 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:37.680 go back to harmony. First of all, our culture doesn't 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.440 equip us to do it. In fact, we feel ashamed 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.079 we're in disharmony to begin with, because I call this 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.560 relational shame. It's just like individuals. You go to a 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:50.040 party and you're advanced that the couples to the left 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:52.240 and the right of you are fighting less and having 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.400 better sex than you are. But which you don't know 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.960 is they're anything about you. We all long for the divice, 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.320 We all long for gods and goddesses that will complete 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:07.400 us and understand us always. But it's the clash of 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:12.480 your actual imperfection and mind and how we manage that. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:16.520 That's the guts of what a real relationship is. That's 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:20.400 why AI girlfriends will never really replace. 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:22.319 Thank Goodness for that. 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:27.319 Well, they're too gratifying. My friend Carol Gilligan, you're pretty young. 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.839 You may not know her, but great a woman's psychology pioneer. 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:36.559 She taught me this and everybody knows King James, God 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.600 made Eve out of Adam's rib to comfort him, right, 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.319 But the actual Aramaic and I was in Jerusalem with 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.400 a bunch of black hat you know, Israeli rabbis, and 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.800 they all knew that as they were connected, they all 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:54.360 knew the phrase. The actual Aramaic says God made Eve 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:59.360 out of Adams with to comfort him by opposing him. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:06.920 That they leave out. There's this creative tension that comes 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.360 from the confrontation of my dealing with your imperfection and 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.280 you're dealing with mine, and how he managed that. Digest it, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.880 work on it, make it better. Our culture doesn't teach 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.199 us any of these skills. So moving from disharmony into 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.360 repairer where all the skills come in. How to speak 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.760 up but be loving and not harsh, how to listen 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:33.560 and not be defensive. A lot of technique which no 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:38.240 one teachoes you. I do, not the culture. So the 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.240 first order of business is we don't know what to do. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:42.920 We don't know how to do it. You know, I'm 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.199 in disharmony. I'm going to regurgitate all of my bad 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:51.679 feelings all over you. Well, no, I'm in disharmony. I'm 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:53.960 going to get back at you. I'm in disharmony. I'm 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:55.720 going to prove to you that I'm right. You're wrong, 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:01.839 losing strategy. Now you're in disharmony in your heart. Figure 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.240 out what you want from your partner and then act 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.840 in a way that actually gives you a chance of 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.679 getting it from them. So how about instead of criticizing 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:15.320 and complaining them, you compliment them for what they're doing 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.640 right and say, even better would be dot dot dot 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:21.679 as a favor of me. Might you work on that 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:29.040 with humility, subjectivity and starting off with a positive appreciation. 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.160 Who does that? No one unless they're trained, and you 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.400 have to be trained. But there are sophisticated ways of 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:42.240 handling yourself in a relationship that work better. None of 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.880 us would get on stage and play piano without a teacher, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.760 or put on skis without a lesson. Well, guess what, 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:55.680 there's a relational technology that works better than what this 0:13:55.800 --> 0:14:00.000 culture teaches and what your mama and dad taught you. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.080 But it's you have to learn it. 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:04.840 It's an art. 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.560 It is. So one thing is we don't know what 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.240 to do. We literally don't know what to do. We 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.400 have to be talkt But the other thing is when 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:15.760 you're in disharmony, you get triggered. So what this particular 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.520 disarmy looks like with this particular partner because you picked him, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:25.600 is your unfinished business. I was raised by an angry dad, 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.000 like a lot of men. My wife, Linda, was raised 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.400 in an angry family. So we brought fighters. But Linda 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.520 comes at me with criticism and anger. We're in disharmony. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.080 I'm not a seventy five year old man talking to 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:45.120 his wife of forty years. I'm a five year old 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:50.480 talking to my goddamn it, towering six foot three angry 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.520 father is going to hit me, and I've got my 0:14:54.680 --> 0:14:58.720 do I'm ready to protect myself. So what happens is 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:05.120 it flooded. Automatic parts of us take over that wouldn't 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:09.120 use these skills even if we had them, because whise 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:16.240 adult cell prefund cortex is offline, and survival subcortical, primitive 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:21.560 parts of the brain take over fight flight or fawn. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:27.120 We've added fawn. Now, O lion, don't eat me, let 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:30.880 me look your paws. I'll groom you. As an adult 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:37.400 faun becomes fixed or enabling codependence, anxious attachment, fight, flight, 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:41.560 or fawn. These are your automatic, knee jerk responses. We 0:15:41.640 --> 0:15:44.880 call it your adaptive child. It's the part of it 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.280 that adapted to whatever you had back then. I think 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.720 it's an adult. The world truths our adapted children, like 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:56.600 it's an adult. Our partners don't, our kids don't. So 0:15:56.760 --> 0:16:00.840 I deal with highly successful people who live out of 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:05.520 their adaptive child. They're fighters, fleers, or fixers. The world 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:11.760 makes them very successful, and they're very unhappy inside their skin, 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.640 and they're miserable to live with. How do we get 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:22.960 out of it? I teach people to quiet those reactions automatic, overwhelming, 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.560 Take a break, take a breath, and reach for that 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.600 wise part of you. Wait a minute, I call it 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.040 remembering love. Wait a minute. I'm not five, but it 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.400 is not my towering father. I'm not going to get hit. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.280 I don't have to yell and scream. Let me take 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:46.480 a breath, try something different. We call this relational mindfulness. 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.760 First the automatic, and then a break. Literally, take a 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.160 walk around the block. Take a break. Count to ten, 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.680 go for a walk. Put that little five year old 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.280 on your lap and talk to him. But we don't 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:04.520 go back into the relationship until you're remembering, well, but 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:09.239 it is not the enemy. She's my pal and I 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.840 don't have to beat her into the ground. I can 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:19.840 diffuse her anger with more sophisticated tools like listening to her. 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.680 My adapter or child is going to fight her. Who 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.240 do you think you are talking to me like my 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:31.520 wise adult? Okay, honey, I'm sorry you're angry. Don't tell 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.760 me what's going on? Which are those two doors that's 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:36.520 going to get me where I want to go? So 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.679 we have to learn and then have support and play 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:46.840 different cards than the default that we were given as kid. 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.080 It's really the key of so many relationships is just 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.760 carving ourselves, not saying what we say in the heated moment, 0:17:55.200 --> 0:18:01.199 stepping back, regulating our emotions, and then speaking. You know, 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.600 I was around a table yesterday with a group of 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:09.040 adults and talking about this upcoming interview actually, and we 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.880 all had our take on relationships. Most of us were 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:16.320 in long term relationships around the table, and someone made 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.960 it a comment, and it was it was obviously a joke, 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.600 but he said, I think we should all break up. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:26.119 Everyone should just break us because it's too hard. But 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.240 I think, you know, it was funny. We all loved 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:32.040 and because we know how hard relationships can be. But 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.800 you know, I love looking back and self regulating and 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.120 knowing all these things, but also owning where you are 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.280 wrong too, and seeing you know what where am I? Yeah, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:46.520 that's that Part's my bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:50.400 I did that without the butt, without the pot. 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.520 It's so hard for people. I have a whole YouTube 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.560 ten minutes on how to give a good ology, which yeah, 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.240 I did it, but I did it, but you have 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.960 to understand that I did it, but you no, No, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.160 I did it, land on it. I did it. Sorry, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.679 I'll bet that hurt. Do you want to tell me 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.639 about it? Then? Is there something I can say do 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.919 to help you feel better? But after they've been heard? 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:16.080 Not? 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.280 Instead of very hard for us to do? 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:20.320 It is true? 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.320 Now you talk about that fieriness in relationships, and I 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:23.840 know you talk. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.399 About hot couples, cold couples, and mixed couples. Can you 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:27.520 explain that to us? 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.200 Because I find this fascinating When you can really identify 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.680 what your dynamic is in your partnership, it's. 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:40.919 Really a boundary issue. Hot couples tend to have poor boundaries. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.800 They're thin skinned they're very reactive, and they don't contain 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.560 themselves very well. They're easily upset, and if they're upset, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.560 boom they are. And if you're with a partner who 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:58.040 is also hot, there's a lot of opera going on 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:06.119 in your relationship. Cold couples are the opposite. They don't 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:12.160 have two porous too thin skinned. They're walled off. If 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:14.760 they live in armor, you don't get in and not 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:17.399 much gets out, and they need to open up more. 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.720 Lets yourself be hurt, You won't die, Share what you're 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.200 thinking and feeling. Your partner won't die. And of course, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.080 when you get these two together, you get your classic 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:36.960 heteronormative pair. The more she angrily pursues, the more he 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.439 coldly withdrawals, and the more he withdraws, the more she pursues. 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:44.680 We look at these patterns of the more, the more, 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:49.560 the vicious circle, and it's like, okay, how about one 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.879 of you changing your dance step here? What are you 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:54.639 by the way? Can I ask you can pass but 0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:56.480 fight flight or fix? 0:20:56.720 --> 0:21:01.919 I feel like I've come down from hot and I'm 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:04.040 sitting in between like I bound balance. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.000 I would say I would say I found balance. 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.280 In recovery most of the time. Yeah, but let's just 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.920 hypothetically say that one day a year when you might 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:18.919 lose your shit. But do you tend to be walled 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.760 off and distant or boundary less and no boundaryless? 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:24.040 Definitely not walled off. 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.880 Yeah, boundary you'd angrily complain, but you learn better. You're 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.240 not doing that so much. Yeah, that's the way many 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.879 of us. Well, when I talk about changing the cards 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.359 in your hand because the cards you were dealt don't 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.840 work very well, that's a good example. You know, many 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.919 of us, particularly women, try and get more of what 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.159 we want in our relationships by complaining about what's not 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:53.320 going right. That's a terrible behavioral. You wouldn't do that 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.720 with a kid. You wouldn't do that with a dog. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:58.760 You don't try and train a dog by only punishing 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.240 it when it does things wrong. You have to teach 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.960 it what right looks like and rewarded. Hello. But we 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:08.600 don't do that with ourselves. We don't say in advance, 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.160 this is what I would like from you as a 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.360 favor to me, would you be willing to do that 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:19.360 for me? We are spontaneous, so we hang out, let 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:24.119 our partner fail, and then share and therapists encourage us 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:28.879 share with them our negative feelings about what they just 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.840 did to us, and then we expect them to do 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:35.879 differently next time. Good luck with that. So do you 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:37.520 want a method for getting more of what you want 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:38.240 your relationship? 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:41.679 Let's do that. He's the practical people. 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:47.359 Three steps. One, dare to rock the boat. This is 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.119 what from the eye, this is what you should be doing. 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.080 You're not God's gifts, you're not the expert. This is 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.440 what I want. This always subjective. You don't need the objective. 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:03.480 This is what's important to me. It's really important. Please listen, 0:23:03.880 --> 0:23:08.399 don't disregard this. It's important. That's daring to rock the boat. 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:12.159 Once we have their attention and they're trying drop the 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.479 sword and cheel, people don't get that. They keep selling 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:19.399 past the sale. I would like you to do more 0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:22.240 of this, okay, well, because it's terrible when you don't 0:23:22.240 --> 0:23:23.960 do it. You know you didn't do it. I already 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:28.040 said i'd do it. On like, don't take the yes. 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:31.280 Don't use d s as an occasion for a teachable moment. 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:36.960 Just takes the yes. Good now. Two, let me show 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.600 you what I would like to see more of. Don't 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:46.120 ask them, teach them. If they're willing, let me show you. 0:23:46.840 --> 0:23:50.440 And this is particularly important for women. I have a saying, 0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.560 you can't be angry about not getting what you never 0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:59.120 asked for. But as part of the traditional female role, 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.239 my prints try if if I have to fight for it, 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.520 if I have to ask for it, if I have 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.200 to teach him to do it, and it's that, that's 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:11.720 no good. My Prince Charming should just know, well, good 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:18.359 luck with that. I like to say, girls, Cinderella's dead, 0:24:19.640 --> 0:24:22.680 Prince Charming probably just came out of rehab, and if 0:24:22.720 --> 0:24:24.159 you want it, you're gonna have to roll up the 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:27.320 sleeves and fight for it. So once they're listening to 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:31.000 you and they want to please you, teach them what 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:35.720 you want. Don't expect them to know. I like to say, 0:24:36.160 --> 0:24:39.240 more assertion of front less resentment on the back end. 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:42.760 So here's a simple example. John Gray, bless his heart, 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.520 made millions of dollars with one goddamn point. I'm not 0:24:46.119 --> 0:24:49.919 jealous or anything. Men tend to do problem solving listening, 0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:53.920 and women wanted empathy. Thank you, John, Mike, couldn't I 0:24:53.920 --> 0:24:59.320 have said that? It's true? So I wrote a piece 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.840 for all magazine about this. There's three listeners. There's a 0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:06.320 problem solver. Have you tried this? What about that? This 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:08.840 is a teachable moment. Well, I have this issue with 0:25:08.920 --> 0:25:13.760