Speaker 1: Oh, Frank, I really don't think he had anything to
Speaker 1: do with me. Frank has lived around this area since
Speaker 1: the eighties.
Speaker 2: He was always a figure in John's River. He lived
Speaker 2: on the highway and he's a hoarder. He's got heaps,
Speaker 2: so don't He hung around the shop. He was always
Speaker 2: hanging around the bus stop. He was dirty, so we
Speaker 2: just stayed away from him as teenage girls.
Speaker 3: And I got to know him.
Speaker 2: He gave me the creeps and I always thought he.
Speaker 3: Was a perver.
Speaker 4: So to recap the lead detective Gary Jubilin has been
Speaker 4: taken off the William Tiel investigation. It feels like very
Speaker 4: few people in the cops or the wider justice system
Speaker 4: want anything to do with Gary. At this point, someone
Speaker 4: in the police is leaking to the media saying more
Speaker 4: than ten detectives from the homicide squad have made complaints
Speaker 4: about Gary and claiming that he's being investigated for alleged
Speaker 4: bullying and falsifying Affi Davids, which he didn't do.
Speaker 2: When I really got to know Frank was in that
Speaker 2: nine months. I actually lived in John's River. A couple
Speaker 2: of times I caught him in places where he shouldn't
Speaker 2: have been like squatting down behind my part are at
Speaker 2: you know, eleven o'clock at night. How would I describe him? Dirty, felthy.
Speaker 2: He doesn't look after himself. He doesn't even have a
Speaker 2: bar that you can have intelligent conversation with the.
Speaker 4: Under Gary. The police strike force had been focused on
Speaker 4: a neighbor called Paul Savage, but Gary himself is now
Speaker 4: under investigation and will soon be charged with criminally recording
Speaker 4: four conversations with Paul without permission using his mobile phone.
Speaker 4: Gary won't be coming back to the homicide squad, and
Speaker 4: without him, the investigation into William's disappearance will turn away
Speaker 4: from Paul Savage, looking instead at other potential suspects.
Speaker 2: I first heard about Frank living in a caravan at Moorland.
Speaker 3: And he used to have sex with a calf.
Speaker 4: That's sex with a calf, In case you missed it, he.
Speaker 3: Used to have a calf tied up outside. That was
Speaker 3: the rumors.
Speaker 4: Frank was definitely bad. A court heard he had a
Speaker 4: long criminal history, including firearms offences and escaping from custody.
Speaker 3: And the rumors. You know, don't ever talk to Frank Abbott.
Speaker 4: He'd been found not guilty of other charges including indecent
Speaker 4: assaults and murdering a teenage girl.
Speaker 3: He killed his wife.
Speaker 4: Frank didn't kill his wife. She died of natural causes.
Speaker 3: He's a charm molester.
Speaker 4: That one's true, though Frank is currently doing time for
Speaker 4: child sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: I've seen Frank there and it was in that few
Speaker 2: days after William went.
Speaker 5: Missing, because we were all talking about it.
Speaker 4: This woman, Gale Veronica, was Frank's neighbor. He did work
Speaker 4: on her property, which is a short drive from where
Speaker 4: William was reported missing on the mid north coast of
Speaker 4: New South Wales.
Speaker 2: You know, he always done a good job.
Speaker 4: Gail says she saw standing on the highway near Kendall
Speaker 4: in the days after William went missing.
Speaker 2: I say, old Frank standing there and he could hardly war.
Speaker 4: Frank was elderly. Gail says. He had trouble walking.
Speaker 2: And I debated whether to pick him up, but the
Speaker 2: last time I picked him up he's freaking stunt. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to stop and put him in the car.
Speaker 4: Frank also had an indirect connection to the house in
Speaker 4: Kendall where William was staying. He knew another tradesman, a
Speaker 4: man called Jeff Owen, who called the house that morning
Speaker 4: about some work. And we've discovered Frank himself had been
Speaker 4: employed by the owner of the subdivision on which that
Speaker 4: house and the road outside it were built, and Frank
Speaker 4: likely knew the property before William went missing.
Speaker 5: That you know what, Dan, I always thought, saying as
Speaker 5: a perver he liked girls. But now when I think
Speaker 5: of it, all the little boys he used to have
Speaker 5: hanging aroundy all the time.
Speaker 4: Gail says. There was this one boy in particular who
Speaker 4: was quite young.
Speaker 3: Oh, he was onny Oh.
Speaker 2: I don't think he was even going to school because
Speaker 2: Frank used to getting ready and put him on the
Speaker 2: bus when he started school.
Speaker 4: So maybe it's not surprising with Gary suddenly gone and
Speaker 4: the inquest he helped set in motion now ready to
Speaker 4: start within weeks, that those people wanting to distance themselves
Speaker 4: from Gary would start looking elsewhere.
Speaker 2: But nothing was ever proved.
Speaker 4: Did you know Frank after William went missing? No, he didn't,
Speaker 4: so he never spoke to him after that.
Speaker 6: No.
Speaker 5: No, And seeing that once that on the highway, what makes.
Speaker 4: You think he wasn't involved in what happened to William.
Speaker 2: I'm really doubting myself now, Dan, After since I've contacted you.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe Frank just.
Speaker 3: Wanted everyone to think that.
Speaker 2: Girls were his sickness. Why I don't think he was
Speaker 2: involved because he had a job to freaking walk that day.
Speaker 2: I've seen him on the highway.
Speaker 7: He had a.
Speaker 8: Job to walk.
Speaker 2: He could hardly freaking walk in Oh. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm doubting my I'm doubting my little I've.
Speaker 4: Seen no evidence that suggests he is involved, but he
Speaker 4: certainly sounds creepy. I'm Dan box And from news dot
Speaker 4: com dot Au. This is Witness William Tyrell episode nine,
Speaker 4: Something Wicked. At this point, it's easy to lose focus
Speaker 4: and concentrate on people like Bill Spedding, who successfully sued
Speaker 4: the state government after his life was unfairly turned upside down,
Speaker 4: and Paul Savage, who we talked about in the last episode,
Speaker 4: and Gary Jubilin and David Laidlaw, who would take over
Speaker 4: the investigation after Gary has taken off it, and to
Speaker 4: forget about the person at the center of this whole thing,
Speaker 4: William Tyrrel, the little boy who'd been taken from one
Speaker 4: set of parents as a baby and given to another,
Speaker 4: and who grew up to love riding his bicycle, playing
Speaker 4: Daddy Tiger and wearing his Spider Man suit. I'm just
Speaker 4: saying you can be distracted, and that matters, actually, if
Speaker 4: you're one of the detectives whose job it is to
Speaker 4: find out what happened to William, when every moment's spent
Speaker 4: looking at the wrong person is a moment not spent
Speaker 4: looking for the right person. And no, I don't pretend
Speaker 4: to really know what it's like to be a homicide detective,
Speaker 4: and I never knew William Tyrrell. I have no claim
Speaker 4: to any special knowledge of him, and don't pretend to
Speaker 4: be able to tell his story. But I do have
Speaker 4: a three year old daughter, and I know how much
Speaker 4: she fills our lives with joy and laughter and sometimes tantrums.
Speaker 4: So that helps me remember why William matters. But if
Speaker 4: William matters, then it matters that we look at the
Speaker 4: investigation that so far hasn't found him and keep us
Speaker 4: asking why and what went right and what went wrong
Speaker 4: and who are all these different people who got caught
Speaker 4: up in this investigation?
Speaker 3: Testing Testing, Hello helone.
Speaker 4: Okay, Nina, you are the producer on this podcast, but
Speaker 4: you've actually done most of the work on Frank Abbott.
Speaker 3: Yes, So at the time of William's disappearance, Frank was
Speaker 3: living in Heron's Creek.
Speaker 4: We've been there. It's a really small village in the forest.
Speaker 4: There's a train line and a sawmill and a few
Speaker 4: houses and it's about ten minutes on the back roads
Speaker 4: from Kendall where William Tyrrel was staying.
Speaker 3: That's right. Frank was living in a caravan on the
Speaker 3: property of daniel Parish. Daniel would later say at the
Speaker 3: inquest that he was scared of Frank and that Frank
Speaker 3: used to tell people that he knew where William's body was.
Speaker 9: She used to brag to everyone a Q I keep
Speaker 9: on saying, this is that Jeff Allen's place. It made
Speaker 9: me sick, and I said, if you reported it to
Speaker 9: the police, and I don't know if he did or not.
Speaker 9: I certainly did tell him.
Speaker 4: So that's Daniel speaking outside the inquest, And.
Speaker 3: Also at the inquest, Daniel said that Frank had threatened
Speaker 3: him at some stage and told him he'd beaten a
Speaker 3: murder charge before and he wasn't afraid to go to.
Speaker 4: Jail, so he'd beaten a murder charge.
Speaker 6: Frank.
Speaker 3: I think he's talking there about the murder of Helen Harrison.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 3: Helen's a seventeen year old. She went missing while riding
Speaker 3: her bike home from work on the very northern edge
Speaker 3: of Sydney in March of nineteen sixty eight.
Speaker 4: But Frank was put on trial.
Speaker 3: Yes, he was twenty two years later in nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: he was found not guilty, but prosecutors at the time
Speaker 3: argued that there were witnesses who said in court that
Speaker 3: Frank admitted that he followed Helen from work on her bike,
Speaker 3: grabbed her and drove her into the bush and raped
Speaker 3: and buried her. One witness said that Frank showed him
Speaker 3: a pair of blue underwear that he claimed belonged to Helen.
Speaker 3: And when Helen's body is discovered in a shallow grave,
Speaker 3: she's naked from the waist down.
Speaker 4: Okay, But Frank's parents say he was somewhere else the
Speaker 4: day the murder happened, and he's ultimately found not guilty
Speaker 4: by the court.
Speaker 3: I went through his court records and there's also a
Speaker 3: separate and decent assault charge on there from twenty ten,
Speaker 3: but again Frank was found not guilty, and going through
Speaker 3: other records, I also found that Frank had a two
Speaker 3: year old son that died in nineteen eighty four. His
Speaker 3: death certificate lists the cause of death as asphyxiation.
Speaker 4: Which could be completely benign.
Speaker 3: Could be anything. Sometimes when a child dies in their
Speaker 3: sleep and there's sort of a sleeping accident, that could
Speaker 3: be assixiation.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 3: Okay, So there's nothing we can take from that cause
Speaker 3: of death. But we do know that Frank wasn't charged
Speaker 3: in relation to that at all. But the more you
Speaker 3: ask about Frank, the more you run into rumor and suspicion.
Speaker 3: At the inquest, a local shopkeeper said that Frank talked
Speaker 3: about William a lot in the weeks after he went missing.
Speaker 3: He said that Frank said the police were looking in
Speaker 3: the wrong place. There was also evidence at the inquest
Speaker 3: where one of his neighbors said that she heard a
Speaker 3: child screaming on the day after William went missing while
Speaker 3: she was out in her garden. But one interesting thing
Speaker 3: is that we were in that area on our last trip.
Speaker 3: I heard what sounded like a child screaming, but later
Speaker 3: realized was a peacock.
Speaker 4: Okay, so we got rumor and we got suspicion. I
Speaker 4: know a little bit about how the police investigating William's
Speaker 4: disappearance started looking at Frank, so Daniel Parrish, who said
Speaker 4: he was scared of Frank. He reported Frank's claim that
Speaker 4: the three year old was on Jeff Owen's property. The
Speaker 4: inquest he Jeff had called the house where William was
Speaker 4: reported missing that morning about doing some work, but he
Speaker 4: said no one told him the children were there. Jeff's
Speaker 4: evidence at the inquest was he's pretty sure he didn't
Speaker 4: have any contact with Frank that morning, but Frank later
Speaker 4: moved into a caravan on Jeff's property, and police records
Speaker 4: show that Gary Jubilin asked one of the detectives on
Speaker 4: the strike force to look at Frank in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 4: I've also spoken to a woman called Jody Huntley who
Speaker 4: lived next door to that property. She posted on Facebook
Speaker 4: asking why that block of land where Frank lived hadn't
Speaker 4: been searched and saying that there was a kid's spider
Speaker 4: man sleeping bag in Frank's caravan. So someone else on
Speaker 4: Facebook told Jody that she should report this. Jody told
Speaker 4: me she'd contacted crime stoppers but didn't hear back, which
Speaker 4: we've heard quite a few times in the course of
Speaker 4: this series. So Jody went to the police in person,
Speaker 4: and a week or so after she said the police
Speaker 4: the detectives were at her door. Then the block of
Speaker 4: land where Frank had been living was searched. Jody and
Speaker 4: her husband gave evidence at the inquest into William's disappearance,
Speaker 4: saying that Frank kept talking about William, even one night
Speaker 4: he knocked on their door to tell them that Jeff
Speaker 4: Owen was a person of interest in the investigation, and
Speaker 4: they suspected Frank was sexually abusing their dog Look. Unsurprisingly,
Speaker 4: Jody had sleepless nights about all this, she said, but
Speaker 4: after giving her evidence, she says, everything went quiet and
Speaker 4: she doesn't understand why. Here's where I think the inquest
Speaker 4: into William's disappearance runs into a problem because it's running
Speaker 4: at the same time as the police are investigating people,
Speaker 4: particularly Frank Abbott, and that's not normal. An inquest normally
Speaker 4: runs only after the police have exhausted their investigation and
Speaker 4: can't do anything more with it themselves.
Speaker 8: Worldwide, these cases have proven to be the most difficult
Speaker 8: to solve.
Speaker 4: This is the lawyer leading the inquest in his opening statement.
Speaker 8: William was murdered and that's a big If.
Speaker 4: He says it's very rare for a child to be
Speaker 4: abducted by a stranger and murdered.
Speaker 8: Then it may be one of those rear three percent
Speaker 8: of cases.
Speaker 4: But abduction by a stranger is definitely something the inquest
Speaker 4: is considering.
Speaker 8: The offender in such crimes is a sneaky complex offender
Speaker 8: who has hidden his or her desires for some time
Speaker 8: and has chosen to act on those desires.
Speaker 4: Only they haven't got evidence of a sneaky complex offender,
Speaker 4: and the lead detective Gary Jubilin, who was planning to
Speaker 4: use this inquest to publicly question Paul Savage, is not
Speaker 4: called to give evidence. Instead, the inquest takes a look
Speaker 4: at several of those people we've talked about in this series,
Speaker 4: Bill and Paul, and Tony Jones, who doesn't have an
Speaker 4: alibi for the morning in September twenty fourteen when William
Speaker 4: was reported missing and whose burnt out car was later
Speaker 4: found in the bush, and who was subsequently convicted of
Speaker 4: child abuse. Tony's evidence at the inquest is that he
Speaker 4: didn't have anything to do with William's disappearance, though he
Speaker 4: couldn't remember what he was doing that morning. After giving evidence,
Speaker 4: Tony gets into a confrontation with the media waiting outside
Speaker 4: the inquest why can't you remember where you wear that day?
Speaker 4: Smashing a photographer's camera to the ground and is bundled
Speaker 4: inside a car by detectives. There are other people the
Speaker 4: inquest looked at. Also.
Speaker 10: This is an electronically recorded interview between Detective Sony Side
Speaker 10: and Mark Dukes and at the Wogga Police station.
Speaker 4: There's talk of a pedophile ring operating in the Kendall area.
Speaker 10: Alside president is Detective Sonia Castle.
Speaker 4: Lonigan an evidence about other local sex offenders, not all
Speaker 4: of whom cooperate with a police investigation or even answer
Speaker 4: their questions.
Speaker 10: You've been given legal advice not to saying him, so
Speaker 10: we're going to record that.
Speaker 4: But it doesn't seem to go anywhere.
Speaker 10: Do you wish to sign hing for the purpose of
Speaker 10: this interview? Can you please state your full name? Please?
Speaker 10: And diverse.
Speaker 4: There's no real evidence of anyone's involvement.
Speaker 10: I'm going to ask you some questions in relation to
Speaker 10: the disappearance and suspected murder of William Tyrell at Kendall
Speaker 10: on Friday, the twelfth day of September two thousand and
Speaker 10: four to a eight Do you understand that? Do you
Speaker 10: understand that?
Speaker 4: And no one at the inquest seems able to answer
Speaker 4: the question what happened to William Tyrell, at least it
Speaker 4: seems until the inquest starts looking at Frank.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 3: One of Frank Abbott's friends is a man named Ray Porter.
Speaker 3: He drove a white Holden Commodore station wagon, and the
Speaker 3: inquest heard that Frank sometimes drove Ray's car, and other
Speaker 3: witnesses would also describe Frank driving a white station wagon
Speaker 3: around the Kendall area.
Speaker 4: William's foster mother says she remembers seeing a white station
Speaker 4: wagon parked outside the house where William was reported missing.
Speaker 3: She does and in twenty nineteen, Frank's friend Ray Porter.
Speaker 4: So he's the guy who drives a white station wagon.
Speaker 3: That's right. He was in a nursing home and he
Speaker 3: apparently makes a confession telling a nurse I didn't do
Speaker 3: anything wrong. All I did was give my best mate
Speaker 3: and a boy a lift. And the nurse asked him
Speaker 3: at the time, are you talking about William Tyrrell?
Speaker 4: That's the evidence from the inquest.
Speaker 3: That's right, yeah, and Ray replied yes. Ray also said
Speaker 3: that he picked up his best mate and the child
Speaker 3: from a shared behind Kendall Public School and drove them
Speaker 3: three hundred kilometers north. The nurse reported what she heard
Speaker 3: to another nurse who went to the police.
Speaker 4: But there are problems. If that child's was William Tyrell,
Speaker 4: then how did he get from the house where he's
Speaker 4: staying outside Kendall to the school which is at a
Speaker 4: look at about two and a half kilometers away. And
Speaker 4: I guess if the idea is that Ray's mate, possibly
Speaker 4: Frank Abbott, took William from the house to the school,
Speaker 4: then how did that happen without a car? And if
Speaker 4: that person had a car already, why did he need
Speaker 4: Ray Porter to pick him up and drive him north.
Speaker 3: The other problem is that ray Porter was in Port
Speaker 3: Macquarie Hospital getting dialysis on the day that William went missing.
Speaker 3: His car was also not picked up on the traffic
Speaker 3: cameras along the highway outside Kendall that day, but it
Speaker 3: was the next day and the day after.
Speaker 4: And another problem is that the inquest doesn't start looking
Speaker 4: at this in public until March twenty twenty, which is
Speaker 4: a full year after the inquest starts, during which time
Speaker 4: Frank has all the evidence sent to him in prison
Speaker 4: by the inquest so he can read it before the
Speaker 4: inquest hearing happens, including everything suggesting a connection to a
Speaker 4: white station wagon or William Tyrrell. And at the same time,
Speaker 4: the police investigation into Frank is still ongoing because they're
Speaker 4: recording his phone calls.
Speaker 6: I like, Martin, good day, Frank. You solicitor came in
Speaker 6: yesterday and that was to do with your appeal.
Speaker 8: Yeah, is she come? And I asked her about the
Speaker 8: other paper and that tune. She said, just don't say nothing.
Speaker 6: She said, not to say nothing.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: This is a phone call between Frank Abbott and a
Speaker 3: Christian pastor named Martin Parrish who got to know Frank's
Speaker 3: through his local chapel in the Backwards near where William
Speaker 3: went missing. So we've got transcripts which were tended at
Speaker 3: the inquest. This is somebody else reading them. This call
Speaker 3: is July twenty nineteen, so that's a few months after
Speaker 3: the inquest started and Frank's in prison for child sex
Speaker 3: offenses against multiple children.
Speaker 4: At this point, the pastor, Martin Parrish says he's spoken
Speaker 4: to Frank's lawyer.
Speaker 6: Okay, I got to speak to her on Monday, and
Speaker 6: she told me she had booked in to see you tomorrow.
Speaker 8: Well, I asked about the thing about the paperwork. I
Speaker 8: didn't understand a lot of it, and she said that
Speaker 8: you just told me. Don't answer. You're going to be
Speaker 8: charged with something else.
Speaker 3: At this point, we don't know what that something else is.
Speaker 8: And I said, there's nothing there that I can be
Speaker 8: charged with anything else. What I said was the truth.
Speaker 8: It doesn't involve me in any way.
Speaker 3: But there is a second phone call that same.
Speaker 6: Day, Hello, get a Frank. Twice in one day.
Speaker 3: Frank says he's been moved to prisons and he's been
Speaker 3: kept in isolation.
Speaker 6: Mate. I guess they're doing it because the police any
Speaker 6: stage could release names of their current investigation and that
Speaker 6: were done and go through the whole system and put
Speaker 6: you at risk.
Speaker 8: The officer, he said, he spoke they got other charges
Speaker 8: or something, and I said, well, all this is just
Speaker 8: a person of interest. I'm not charged, just a person
Speaker 8: who interested.
Speaker 6: That that's all. I understand that you're a person of interest.
Speaker 4: That phrase person of interest is the key here, because
Speaker 4: at this time Frank is a person of interest in
Speaker 4: the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell mad have
Speaker 4: you put have all.
Speaker 6: The statements gone back into your personal files or are
Speaker 6: they still sitting with you in the cell.
Speaker 8: I've still got all the papers in the cell here
Speaker 8: with me.
Speaker 3: The two men talk about papers and statements and it
Speaker 3: becomes clear that Frank has been set and the police
Speaker 3: brief of evidence which the police gave to the inquest
Speaker 3: and the inquest gave to Frank. So they talk about
Speaker 3: what other witnesses have told detectives.
Speaker 6: Yep, so I gather my brother is saying that he
Speaker 6: that you borrowed the car without consent or what is
Speaker 6: he saying?
Speaker 4: They're talking about Daniel Parish, who's Martin's brother, and Frank
Speaker 4: had been living with Daniel. It was Daniel who said
Speaker 4: he was scared of Frank and that Frank used to
Speaker 4: drive his cars.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well no, he said I had the car and
Speaker 8: all that, and I drove around everywhere. But he said
Speaker 8: I never borrowed his car any time. I never took
Speaker 8: his car without permission any time. They wouldn't let me
Speaker 8: have the car, and he had the keys, he had
Speaker 8: all the cays.
Speaker 4: At this point, Daniel hasn't yet given this evidence in public,
Speaker 4: but it sounds like Frank has his witness statement with
Speaker 4: him in the prison cell, and he and Martin Parish,
Speaker 4: the pastor, are talking about Frank's was reponse.
Speaker 6: Yeah, hey, look, I can imagine him not letting you
Speaker 6: use the car because you don't have insurance. And then
Speaker 6: he told me he'd make you use the car when
Speaker 6: you were doing him a favor.
Speaker 4: The two men also talk about another witness, a child
Speaker 4: who we can't identify. The inquest heard that this child
Speaker 4: was said to have told a babysitter that Frank claimed
Speaker 4: he killed William and put his body in a suitcase.
Speaker 8: And I think he told somebody that I told him
Speaker 8: that I put him in a bag and buried him.
Speaker 8: And he said if you shared anything, I'm gonna snap
Speaker 8: mum's neck. I'll tell you about it when you come down,
Speaker 8: and I'll ask just say that Jeplin and the welfare
Speaker 8: Yeah good, okay, now God bless see you.
Speaker 4: Okay. So to an outsider, this sounds extraordinary, But is it.
Speaker 3: It's a long way from perfect. I asked off formal
Speaker 3: homicide detective about it. He's not someone who's worked on
Speaker 3: William's case. He's worked on a lot of murders. And
Speaker 3: a lot of inquests. So he told me that normally,
Speaker 3: with an inquest, yes, you would let all of those involved,
Speaker 3: including potential suspects, see the evidence. And that's because an
Speaker 3: inquest is only supposed to happen after the police have
Speaker 3: exhausted every lead in their investigation, which we know didn't
Speaker 3: happen in this case.
Speaker 4: And in court during the inquest, Frank is able to
Speaker 4: take part. He's on an AVL link from prison, so
Speaker 4: he's listening to what people are saying about him, and
Speaker 4: he's even able to question the witnesses. You said it's
Speaker 4: far from perfect. I think that's been kind. So you've
Speaker 4: got these two processes, the inquest and the police investigation
Speaker 4: into William's disappearance, running at the same time, potentially running
Speaker 4: on top of each other. At least at this point,
Speaker 4: they seem to be both heading in the same direction.
Speaker 4: And I do know from talking to both William's birth
Speaker 4: and foster families that they say the coronal lawyers were
Speaker 4: feeling confident that they were openly telling people they were
Speaker 4: on the right track. Though something happened because last month,
Speaker 4: when the inquest came back for that week long hearing,
Speaker 4: at one point Frank Abbott interrupted, saying that two of
Speaker 4: the coroner's lawyers came to see him, telling him he
Speaker 4: was no longer a person of interest. The coroner cut
Speaker 4: him off, so we got no explanation. We don't know
Speaker 4: if that's true or if Frank is mistaken. All we
Speaker 4: do know is what's in these tapes?
Speaker 8: Burning up?
Speaker 6: Morning? Frank, Sorry, I mister call yesterday.
Speaker 3: This is still July twenty nineteen. It's a week after
Speaker 3: the last call. Frank and the pastor, Martin Parrish talk
Speaker 3: about the inquest in more details.
Speaker 6: When do you when do you have the interview?
Speaker 11: Oh?
Speaker 8: Is that next week for the court guys with record case?
Speaker 6: Yeah? So yeah, it's all going to be by video link.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Wednesday, It is good.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, the questions you asked me just before you
Speaker 6: left here. You probably need to get legal advice on
Speaker 6: those questions.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what I was going to do. None of
Speaker 8: the he shared anything I had anything to do with it.
Speaker 8: But that's just what you know. I want to find
Speaker 8: out what happened to him, you know, just yes that
Speaker 8: I want them to find who done it.
Speaker 3: Then the pastor says something revealing.
Speaker 6: Have you heard of a name Savage.
Speaker 3: The name Savage, Paul Savage.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yes, I've heard of it. It was only in
Speaker 8: his record. I don't know him outside any of that.
Speaker 6: I just heard that name, and I'm not making any connections.
Speaker 8: I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, I got his records. Yep, Yeah,
Speaker 8: it's in me files on that here.
Speaker 4: What's the significance of these two talking about Paul Savage.
Speaker 3: Well, you can hear Frank say he's got his records.
Speaker 3: It's in the files in his cells with him. And
Speaker 3: that means that Frank, who at this point is considered
Speaker 3: a potential suspect, doesn't just have the evidence that plays
Speaker 3: have gathered about him, He's also got access to the
Speaker 3: evidence about other potential suspects.
Speaker 4: So meaning if he's preparing his response to being questioned,
Speaker 4: he has everything he could possibly need.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Shortly after this call, in August of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 3: they searched a property near where Frank was living and
Speaker 3: they brought in heavy equipment to move piles of old deadlogs.
Speaker 4: On the same day, Frank and his pastor are on
Speaker 4: a phone call discussing the evidence.
Speaker 8: Oh, I said that it was fourteen oh seven forty eight.
Speaker 6: What was that fourteen oh seven.
Speaker 4: Fourteen oh seven is the time a traffic camera out
Speaker 4: on the highway picks up one of the cars belonging
Speaker 4: to Daniel Parish, the man who Frank once lived with
Speaker 4: and who says Frank might have driven them.
Speaker 6: Fourteen So that's two clock in the afternoon. Yeah, but
Speaker 6: William Tyrell went missing much.
Speaker 8: Earlier than that. Yeah, ten o'clock, ten o'clock.
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, so they're checking up on every car that
Speaker 6: give me a second. The police they're digging up, digging
Speaker 6: back in Heron's Creek again.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 6: So I don't think it's got anything to do with
Speaker 6: you at all.
Speaker 3: The pastor is wrong about that that search had everything
Speaker 3: to do with Frank Abbott.
Speaker 6: Oh look, I these are all the things that you
Speaker 6: need to write down that it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 8: Ring hell, and I ask Helen seeking organize for me
Speaker 8: to go on there.
Speaker 6: I will give Helen a ring when I get home.
Speaker 3: A week after that phone call, it's announced that the
Speaker 3: public hearings of the inquest are going to be suspended
Speaker 3: for six months. And the coroner doesn't explain it. But
Speaker 3: Frank and his pastor keep talking on the phone, and
Speaker 3: there's a few clues in these convers suggesting that the
Speaker 3: delay is due to the police investigation.
Speaker 8: Martin, are you.
Speaker 6: You've read all the witness statements. Is there anything that
Speaker 6: is there anything? Did anything that they say anything about you?
Speaker 6: And the conversation with David Abbott, No, brother.
Speaker 8: I don't. I don't think he ever spoke to David. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but Bernie said in his statement that I used to
Speaker 8: have arguments with Jeff in eleven in twenty eleven. In
Speaker 8: the twenty twelve.
Speaker 6: He used to have arguments with Jeff.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Well, at the time I was arguing with Jeff
Speaker 8: was that he used to go inside so because he
Speaker 8: didn't want to listen to it with.
Speaker 6: Jeff Jeff Owen.
Speaker 8: Yeah, he said Jeff had many cars. Well, Jeff never
Speaker 8: I hadly know him. He had two the white Sadan.
Speaker 4: Thing he had there again is the mention of a
Speaker 4: white car like the one William's foster mother says she
Speaker 4: saw that morning. Soon after, there's a suggestion the police
Speaker 4: are looking at where Frank was on the morning William
Speaker 4: was reported missing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's in my head that I was there on
Speaker 8: the Thursday working to him till lunchtime. And as you know,
Speaker 8: the police got proof that I was in or Hope yep,
Speaker 8: from nine point thirty ten o'clock because I drew money
Speaker 8: out of me Meank there.
Speaker 6: So yeah, like, look, I don't know where the police
Speaker 6: are up to.
Speaker 3: Two months later, they talk about detectives visiting Frank's brothers,
Speaker 3: Lez and David.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I talked to Lez and David a few days ago
Speaker 8: now and they see that. Yeah, they've been up there
Speaker 8: and seeing them.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they went up and paid the visits.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they were over here the other day too. They
Speaker 6: were here the other day and I was asked to
Speaker 6: go speak to their QC.
Speaker 8: Yeah, because they was up there and they said, oh,
Speaker 8: it's all about that murder back in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 8: and said some brought that up. They said I beat
Speaker 8: the charger and found not guilty, but they still bring
Speaker 8: it up. They said, I's done these and he's done that.
Speaker 8: We think he might have done this one.
Speaker 3: That's the murder of Helen Harrison, the seventeen year old
Speaker 3: who was abducted, raped, and later found buried. Frank was
Speaker 3: found not guilty, but Frank's saying that police are asking
Speaker 3: questions about it and that they think he might have
Speaker 3: been involved in William's disappearance.
Speaker 6: Well that's their thinking.
Speaker 8: Yeah, Now they got CCTV footage of Thursday. He was
Speaker 8: just Heather Bray. He was at McDonald's at heather Bray.
Speaker 8: They stopped there for a meal on their way up
Speaker 8: up to Kendall.
Speaker 3: Heather Bray was where William's foster family stopped at a
Speaker 3: McDonald's on the drive from Sydney up to Kendall, where
Speaker 3: William would go missing.
Speaker 8: And I borrowed somebody's car and went down enticed him
Speaker 8: out with Lowy's and ice cream out of the yard.
Speaker 6: So that's what the that's what the feds are trying
Speaker 6: to deduct.
Speaker 8: They told David that's what i'd done. I borrowed somebody's
Speaker 8: car and went down and enticed him out of the yard.
Speaker 8: I didn't even know there was anybody like any kid
Speaker 8: led straight and I've never been in that street in
Speaker 8: my life. And why would I borrow somebody's car to
Speaker 8: go up there at that particular time if I didn't
Speaker 8: even know there was anybody there.
Speaker 4: The pastor Martin Parrish tells Frank again that the police
Speaker 4: are looking at Frank's relationship with Jeff Owen, who's the
Speaker 4: tradesman who called the house where William went missing on
Speaker 4: the same morning to talk about some work that needed doing.
Speaker 6: So they're saying that you had a good friendship with
Speaker 6: with Jeff at that stage.
Speaker 4: And at this point, Nina, I think you have to
Speaker 4: ask yourself, what was this pastor doing. So I get
Speaker 4: the idea of ministering to his flock, and I get
Speaker 4: the idea of Christian forgiveness, but it seems to go
Speaker 4: beyond that. In November twenty nineteen, the police sit Frank
Speaker 4: Abbot down for a formal interview.
Speaker 8: They wanted to make a record of interview. I said, no,
Speaker 8: I'm not speaking to you because I had nothing to
Speaker 8: do with it. And they said, we got all this
Speaker 8: evidence and all that, and I said, well, if you
Speaker 8: got it, why aren't you charging me instead of coming
Speaker 8: to question me all the time. So it's a pretty
Speaker 8: traumatic day. Oh would have been a traumatic day.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 8: They talked to me for ten minutes, asking me questions
Speaker 8: if you played guilty and that now help you and
Speaker 8: all this and then Martin will forgive you. Now, I said,
Speaker 8: what for something I didn't do?
Speaker 6: What did they say that Martin will forgive you? So
Speaker 6: do they think you're lying to me.
Speaker 8: That's what they said. Anyway, they said they found a
Speaker 8: spider Man's suit, kids clothes or something.
Speaker 6: They found what a spider men suit and.
Speaker 8: Kids clothes or garbage. Because they're just trying to frighten
Speaker 8: or make me confess to something I didn't do.
Speaker 6: So it's okay for them to lie to you and
Speaker 6: tell you lies. They do it.
Speaker 8: All the time.
Speaker 3: That same month, the pastor tells Frank that he should
Speaker 3: memorize something.
Speaker 6: Yep, yeah, you might memorize. You probably don't have anything
Speaker 6: with you right now about what my brother has said.
Speaker 8: Have you want me to memorize?
Speaker 6: Ah? His statement.
Speaker 3: That's the statement of Daniel Parrish, who'd gone to the
Speaker 3: police about Frank. Months later, Daniel would give evidence of
Speaker 3: the inquest.
Speaker 4: The inquest also called the pastor Martin Parish to give
Speaker 4: every asking him about these phone conversations and others where
Speaker 4: he'd confirmed phone numbers that Frank was After the pastor
Speaker 4: was asked, you seem to be taking up issues that
Speaker 4: Frank Abbot raises with respect to the Tyrill investigation and
Speaker 4: in a sense doing his leg work, and the pastor agreed.
Speaker 4: A few weeks ago, Nina and I drove up to
Speaker 4: Heron's creek man that said this way, not the first left,
Speaker 4: but take the second left, and then it's just around.
Speaker 8: The corner.
Speaker 4: Where martin parishes Isolated Chapel stands.
Speaker 8: Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 4: There's the church next to his house and his quiet,
Speaker 4: sunlit garden. Okay, there's a car, so there's someone home.
Speaker 4: I'm going to swing as round and park it facing
Speaker 4: that way in the shade, so if we need to leave.
Speaker 4: I wanted to ask him why he did this leg work,
Speaker 4: as Frank Abbott prepared for the inquest, particularly given Frank
Speaker 4: was then in prison for abusing children. But we couldn't
Speaker 4: find the pastor. So the neighbour says Martin has been
Speaker 4: away for a month and she doesn't know why, but
Speaker 4: she's gonna She wouldn't give me his number, but she's
Speaker 4: gonna call him and give him mine. We also left
Speaker 4: a written message posted through his screen door. I've got
Speaker 4: a number for another priest who works with him.
Speaker 8: Oh cool.
Speaker 4: When we're back in the office, we've heard nothing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, how's everything there? Good?
Speaker 6: Yeah, everything's good.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that's good.
Speaker 6: Anyway, Jeanette's not with me, so she sends her lad, Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah, God bless you all there, and I'll give you
Speaker 8: a ring bit later on.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 4: And another thing we can't explain at this point is why,
Speaker 4: when the inquest finally resumes after that six month break
Speaker 4: in which the police investigated Frank Abbot, Frank is not
Speaker 4: called to answer questions in public.
Speaker 11: The final part of an inquest into the disappearance of
Speaker 11: New South Wales toddler William Tyrrel has begun.
Speaker 4: Meaning all of this will be left hanging without resolution
Speaker 4: and crucially, there is still no evidence that puts Frank
Speaker 4: Abbot at the house where William was reported missing.
Speaker 11: Rob What are we likely to hear from today's proceedings
Speaker 11: by now?
Speaker 4: There's a new leadership in the police force.
Speaker 12: This is expected to be the final stage of the
Speaker 12: William Tyrrel inquest, set down for two weeks here in Tare.
Speaker 4: As well as replacing Gary jubilin.
Speaker 12: The Inquistor's also heard from a number of high profile
Speaker 12: people of interest.
Speaker 4: There's a new homicide Squad Commander Scott Cook, and a
Speaker 4: new commissioner in charge of the police force, Mick Fuller.
Speaker 12: This morning, New South Wales Police Comissioner Michael Fuller addressed
Speaker 12: criticism police have fallen away from investigating William's disappearance, and.
Speaker 4: The reality is that there are four hundred plus cold
Speaker 4: cases and I have.
Speaker 10: To make sure that each one of those is getting
Speaker 10: the same sort of effort.
Speaker 4: And by now William's foster parents have gone public in
Speaker 4: another podcast with the journalist Leah Harris.
Speaker 13: Because it's outrageous that this has happened. It's outrageous has
Speaker 13: taken this amount.
Speaker 4: Of time criticizing the police for not doing enough to
Speaker 4: find William.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 13: I don't trust police.
Speaker 4: I can't and for taking Gary off the investigation.
Speaker 14: And nobody, nobody within that police organization is fighting for William.
Speaker 13: The only people who are fighting for William is us and.
Speaker 4: Gary and personally criticizing those now in charge.
Speaker 13: We have been ignored.
Speaker 14: I have had to write letters, I have left telephone calls,
Speaker 14: I have left messages.
Speaker 10: And we have been ignored.
Speaker 13: Who exactly has ignored you?
Speaker 14: Mix Faller and he's passed it down the chain of
Speaker 14: his command till Lands with Scott Cook.
Speaker 13: And how has he handled it? Not very well, unprofessional,
Speaker 13: incredibly lack of.
Speaker 15: Emphasis, extraordinarily poorly, and we would have expected a whole
Speaker 15: lot more from someone of that sort of position in
Speaker 15: this seniority of the police force.
Speaker 13: Sorry, that's just crickets in the wind. Crickets in the wind.
Speaker 13: The sound of silence has been deafening, and it's not
Speaker 13: for us. Is this for William?
Speaker 4: The inquest doesn't come to an end as expected. Instead,
Speaker 4: it's adjourned again for months. Around the same time, Gary
Speaker 4: Jubelin is put on trial for recording his conversations with
Speaker 4: the person of interest, Paul Savage. Gary's defense is basically
Speaker 4: that he had a lawful reason to record them because
Speaker 4: he was doing police work and also worried that Paul
Speaker 4: might accuse him of doing something he hadn't, which actually
Speaker 4: Paul does do. I remember sitting in the courtroom when
Speaker 4: Paul gave evidence saying that Gary had threatened to arrest
Speaker 4: him and saying Gary told him that he was coming
Speaker 4: back the next day to pick Paul up. And we
Speaker 4: know Gary didn't say that because Gary recorded their conversation.
Speaker 4: But spoiler alert, the magistrate doesn't agree and finds him guilty,
Speaker 4: accusing Gary of pursuing Paul at all costs, accusing Gary
Speaker 4: of lying on the witness stand, saying Gary's investigation was
Speaker 4: above and beyond legality. Honestly, it's pretty full on criticism
Speaker 4: and meant absolutely no one in the police or in
Speaker 4: the court system wants anything to do with Gary after
Speaker 4: I'm not challenging the magistrate's decision, but there are a
Speaker 4: few interesting things I noticed sitting in court watching Gary
Speaker 4: Jubilin on trial. Firstly, the police don't always let these
Speaker 4: things play out so publicly. Since then, there have been
Speaker 4: other police officers charged with various offenses, and the force
Speaker 4: doesn't always issue a press release, let alone brief the
Speaker 4: media off the record.
Speaker 7: Tonight nine News can reveal details involving a high ranking
Speaker 7: member of the New South Wales Police Force facing criminal charges.
Speaker 4: This was last year and the high ranking member of
Speaker 4: the police force allegedly downed about twenty drinks at a
Speaker 4: work party then got in his car to drive home.
Speaker 7: I'm joined by our chief court reporter, Tiffany Genders. Tiff
Speaker 7: what can you tell us?
Speaker 16: Pete, a senior member of the state's police executive has
Speaker 16: been charged with high drink driving six months after allegedly
Speaker 16: crashing and later abandoning his vehicle.
Speaker 4: This CoP's name will not become public. Instead, it will
Speaker 4: remain suppressed for forty years after the court agreed to
Speaker 4: what was an extraordinary request from the police force protecting
Speaker 4: his identity and connection to others in the top ranks.
Speaker 16: Ordinarily, when officers are charged, immediate releases issued, but that
Speaker 16: didn't happen in this case. We've also put questions to
Speaker 16: the Commissioner and Police Minister about who within the senior
Speaker 16: ranks had knowledge of the case and whether it was
Speaker 16: treated differently from others.
Speaker 4: Something else I thought was interesting about Gary's trial was
Speaker 4: how the allegiances against him were made by another officer
Speaker 4: who he'd fallen out with over the William Tiole investigation,
Speaker 4: called Craig Lambert. The two men even squared up against
Speaker 4: each other in the offices of the homicide squad and
Speaker 4: had to be separated physically in court. At Gary's trial,
Speaker 4: the police said that Craig was unwell and could not
Speaker 4: give evidence, but in a separate Industrial Relations Commission hearing,
Speaker 4: Craig said that he let police know he was available
Speaker 4: to give evidence in Gary's trial if required, and Craig's
Speaker 4: account of one of those recorded conversations was completely different
Speaker 4: to the version heard at Gary's trial, where one detective
Speaker 4: said on oath that Gary made him record it, but Craig,
Speaker 4: who was also in the room at that time, said
Speaker 4: this didn't happen. Only by the time that this version
Speaker 4: of events became public at the Industrial Relations Commission, Gary
Speaker 4: had been convicted, meaning his downfall from celebrated detective to
Speaker 4: criminal was complete. Putting Gary on trial at this time
Speaker 4: meant risking the entire William Tyroll investigation. It's not me
Speaker 4: saying that it's the police in their application during the
Speaker 4: trial for another suppression order on the evidence, arguing it
Speaker 4: might quote lead to potential suspects destroying inculpatory evidence or
Speaker 4: manufacturing exculpatory evidence, which could jeopardize the investigation. The police
Speaker 4: lawyer stood up in court and admitted it would have
Speaker 4: been preferable to delay the trial, but that didn't happen
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, and the trial happened. The final interesting
Speaker 4: thing took place on the last day of that court
Speaker 4: hearing when William's foster mother was called to give evidence
Speaker 4: in Gary's defense, and she doesn't hold back.
Speaker 17: The biases and the political agendas around William's matter are
Speaker 17: just disgraceful.
Speaker 4: This is William's foster mother not speaking at Gary's trial,
Speaker 4: but in an interview with the journalist Leah Harris, do.
Speaker 17: You have faith in the current police force to find
Speaker 17: out what happened to William?
Speaker 10: No?
Speaker 13: No, No.
Speaker 4: William's foster mother says much the same thing on the
Speaker 4: witness stand in Gary's trial. Her big fear is that
Speaker 4: the case will be sent to unsolved homicide with everything
Speaker 4: we've heard in this series about that team and backlogs
Speaker 4: and missing evidence and cases going unopened.
Speaker 17: Because this is what's going to happen. It will go
Speaker 17: to inquest and the colin will say, police, you've done
Speaker 17: a great job, thank you very much, and deliver an
Speaker 17: open finding. Police will go great, we did a really
Speaker 17: good job.
Speaker 13: Let's push that over onto unsolved and it's going to
Speaker 13: sit there and people are going.
Speaker 3: To forget about it.
Speaker 17: We can't let people forget William.
Speaker 4: At Gary's trial, William's foster mother tells a story about
Speaker 4: meeting the new homicide squad commander Scott Cook. Nina. That's
Speaker 4: the transcript of her evidence. Can you read it.
Speaker 3: We said hello, exchanged pleasantries. I said to him, I'm
Speaker 3: surprised we're actually meeting because given the conversations we had
Speaker 3: over the phone. I did not expect to meet mister
Speaker 3: Cook at all. After the pleasantries, mister Cook said to me,
Speaker 3: you are not the only families of victims of crime.
Speaker 3: I stopped and looked at him and I thought, no,
Speaker 3: but you are at the inquest of one of those victims.
Speaker 3: He then proceeded to say, William is not our only case.
Speaker 3: I then said to him, William is three years old.
Speaker 3: He was taken from his grandmother's house.
Speaker 4: It was a.
Speaker 3: Street where there's properly twenty houses on it. We were
Speaker 3: sitting just around the corner, and he's a child in care.
Speaker 3: I don't think you've got any other cases that describes that,
Speaker 3: and I don't think you can just give up on him.
Speaker 4: She's asked in court if Scott Cook replied to.
Speaker 3: This, and she says no, she says. I then asked him,
Speaker 3: so are you planning on taking William's case to cold cases?
Speaker 3: And he said yes, it's going to unsolved.
Speaker 17: Which he believes it will in six months time. They'll
Speaker 17: probably pull it out again and someone will have a
Speaker 17: look at it, and you know they look at it. Yeah, well,
Speaker 17: you know, nothing news come through.
Speaker 10: We'll put it back over there in that.
Speaker 3: Box and I'm thinking, I can't believe you're saying this
Speaker 3: to us here at the inquest for this little boy.
Speaker 3: You're saying this to his parents, and.
Speaker 4: That's kind of what's happened. The investigation into William's disappearance
Speaker 4: is not officially an unsolved homicide, but the new lead detective,
Speaker 4: David Laidlaw, works for the unsolved Homicide team as to
Speaker 4: others in the strikeforce currently on it. At Gary's trial,
Speaker 4: William's fostermother also says she was told there had been
Speaker 4: a handover of information from Gary Jubilin to David Laidlaw, that.
Speaker 3: Whole knowledge transfer. I was really really worried about it,
Speaker 3: and I said specifically to Scott Cook, who's doing the handover.
Speaker 3: He told me Gary Jubilin was doing a handover with
Speaker 3: David Laidlaw. After those conversations, David Laidlaw said to me,
Speaker 3: there is no handover. I'm not allowed to talk to Gary.
Speaker 18: So I'm really confused because I'm told that Gary and
Speaker 18: David Laidlaw meet regularly and have been meeting to do
Speaker 18: a handover. And then on the other hand, I get
Speaker 18: told very clearly that Gary is not allowed to speak
Speaker 18: with anybody about.
Speaker 3: This matter, and she says, I'm angry.
Speaker 4: She was, she was crying and shaking in the witness box,
Speaker 4: and I'm.
Speaker 17: Really angry because police are playing with William. Doesn't matter
Speaker 17: what we think, doesn't matter what impact it has to us,
Speaker 17: it matters.
Speaker 4: To William, saying this in Gary's trial is front page news.
Speaker 4: William Tyrrel's foster mum makes stunning claim about senior officer
Speaker 4: and it's personal. That was February twenty twenty. A month later,
Speaker 4: in March, I spoke to William's foster mother, who said
Speaker 4: she'd been told the police had dropped the Paul Savage
Speaker 4: line of inquiry and the police Commissioner, Mick Fuller was
Speaker 4: still not responding to their emails or phone calls. In July,
Speaker 4: a detective Andrew Lonegan had worked on the strikeforce before,
Speaker 4: was brought back and asked to review the investigation. Andrew
Speaker 4: Lonegan later said in court that he was aware of
Speaker 4: the foster mother's criticism, and I've seen an email sent
Speaker 4: by one of the detectives saying they identified William's foster
Speaker 4: mother as a significant person of interest. And that happened
Speaker 4: a month later in August and the same August, the
Speaker 4: strike force arranged to meet William's foster mother at the
Speaker 4: crossroads outside Kendall, where they'll later suggest that she disposed
Speaker 4: of William's body. But that also means the police are
Speaker 4: investigating yet another person of interest while the inquest is
Speaker 4: still going. Because the inquest comes back in October for
Speaker 4: what it says will definitely be its final hearings.
Speaker 19: William's foster parents also spark about their frustrations and the
Speaker 19: lack of progress.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 19: We are at the same point we were six years ago.
Speaker 19: Life will never be the same, William's biological family told
Speaker 19: the court.
Speaker 4: Only it's not the final hearings, and the coroner doesn't
Speaker 4: hand down her findings as she promises, because within weeks
Speaker 4: the police are installing covert surveillance inside the foster parents' home,
Speaker 4: and a year later, the new South Wales Police Commissioner
Speaker 4: will be giving this radio interview.
Speaker 8: You know, my understanding is from the investigators used that
Speaker 8: there is certainly one person in particular that we are
Speaker 8: looking closely at.
Speaker 12: How confident are you about the suspect that your detectives
Speaker 12: have in mind.
Speaker 8: Look, I'll say this, Ben, I'm confident that the team
Speaker 8: who has the investigation at the moment, I'm confident they
Speaker 8: can solve it. I truly believe that.
Speaker 4: We'll get into that in detail next time on Witness
Speaker 4: William Tyron. A lot of different people have been involved
Speaker 4: in making this series. Among them, the executive producer is
Speaker 4: Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimack. The
Speaker 4: producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams, Jazzber, Phoebe Zakowski
Speaker 4: Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Adan Patrick, original music
Speaker 4: by Rory O'Connor. Voice acting on this episode from JK. Cagatay.
Speaker 4: Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news dot
Speaker 4: com dot Au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Box