WEBVTT - Something Wicked | William Tyrrell: 9 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:07.760 Oh, Frank, I really don't think he had anything to 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:14.360 do with me. Frank has lived around this area since 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:15.440 the eighties. 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:19.400 He was always a figure in John's River. He lived 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.880 on the highway and he's a hoarder. He's got heaps, 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.720 so don't He hung around the shop. He was always 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.480 hanging around the bus stop. He was dirty, so we 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:34.760 just stayed away from him as teenage girls. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.080 And I got to know him. 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.840 He gave me the creeps and I always thought he. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:46.120 Was a perver. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.239 So to recap the lead detective Gary Jubilin has been 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.000 taken off the William Tiel investigation. It feels like very 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.560 few people in the cops or the wider justice system 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:05.600 want anything to do with Gary. At this point, someone 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.920 in the police is leaking to the media saying more 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.880 than ten detectives from the homicide squad have made complaints 0:01:12.920 --> 0:01:17.880 about Gary and claiming that he's being investigated for alleged 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:22.720 bullying and falsifying Affi Davids, which he didn't do. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:27.840 When I really got to know Frank was in that 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.440 nine months. I actually lived in John's River. A couple 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:37.880 of times I caught him in places where he shouldn't 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:45.000 have been like squatting down behind my part are at 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:52.680 you know, eleven o'clock at night. How would I describe him? Dirty, felthy. 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.360 He doesn't look after himself. He doesn't even have a 0:01:56.400 --> 0:02:01.880 bar that you can have intelligent conversation with the. 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:07.120 Under Gary. The police strike force had been focused on 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:11.799 a neighbor called Paul Savage, but Gary himself is now 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:16.760 under investigation and will soon be charged with criminally recording 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:21.760 four conversations with Paul without permission using his mobile phone. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.560 Gary won't be coming back to the homicide squad, and 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:31.000 without him, the investigation into William's disappearance will turn away 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:35.639 from Paul Savage, looking instead at other potential suspects. 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:44.720 I first heard about Frank living in a caravan at Moorland. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:49.079 And he used to have sex with a calf. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.000 That's sex with a calf, In case you missed it, he. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:55.800 Used to have a calf tied up outside. That was 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:56.920 the rumors. 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:02.000 Frank was definitely bad. A court heard he had a 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:07.079 long criminal history, including firearms offences and escaping from custody. 0:03:07.600 --> 0:03:12.160 And the rumors. You know, don't ever talk to Frank Abbott. 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.320 He'd been found not guilty of other charges including indecent 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.080 assaults and murdering a teenage girl. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:21.400 He killed his wife. 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:26.320 Frank didn't kill his wife. She died of natural causes. 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:28.440 He's a charm molester. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.880 That one's true, though Frank is currently doing time for 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:34.440 child sexual abuse. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.600 I've seen Frank there and it was in that few 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:40.400 days after William went. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.120 Missing, because we were all talking about it. 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.360 This woman, Gale Veronica, was Frank's neighbor. He did work 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.400 on her property, which is a short drive from where 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:53.320 William was reported missing on the mid north coast of 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:54.320 New South Wales. 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.680 You know, he always done a good job. 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.360 Gail says she saw standing on the highway near Kendall 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.200 in the days after William went missing. 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.920 I say, old Frank standing there and he could hardly war. 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:15.200 Frank was elderly. Gail says. He had trouble walking. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:18.479 And I debated whether to pick him up, but the 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:22.039 last time I picked him up he's freaking stunt. I 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.320 didn't want to stop and put him in the car. 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.719 Frank also had an indirect connection to the house in 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:34.200 Kendall where William was staying. He knew another tradesman, a 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.440 man called Jeff Owen, who called the house that morning 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:42.200 about some work. And we've discovered Frank himself had been 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.120 employed by the owner of the subdivision on which that 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.839 house and the road outside it were built, and Frank 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:53.480 likely knew the property before William went missing. 0:04:54.720 --> 0:05:00.200 That you know what, Dan, I always thought, saying as 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:06.200 a perver he liked girls. But now when I think 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.200 of it, all the little boys he used to have 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.760 hanging aroundy all the time. 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.560 Gail says. There was this one boy in particular who 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:18.479 was quite young. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:21.600 Oh, he was onny Oh. 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:25.480 I don't think he was even going to school because 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.680 Frank used to getting ready and put him on the 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:31.600 bus when he started school. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.320 So maybe it's not surprising with Gary suddenly gone and 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.719 the inquest he helped set in motion now ready to 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.520 start within weeks, that those people wanting to distance themselves 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.599 from Gary would start looking elsewhere. 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.040 But nothing was ever proved. 0:05:52.320 --> 0:05:56.440 Did you know Frank after William went missing? No, he didn't, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:58.200 so he never spoke to him after that. 0:05:58.880 --> 0:05:58.920 No. 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:04.760 No, And seeing that once that on the highway, what makes. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:09.880 You think he wasn't involved in what happened to William. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:15.760 I'm really doubting myself now, Dan, After since I've contacted you. 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:17.720 You know, maybe Frank just. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.600 Wanted everyone to think that. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:26.080 Girls were his sickness. Why I don't think he was 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.640 involved because he had a job to freaking walk that day. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.560 I've seen him on the highway. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:33.080 He had a. 0:06:33.120 --> 0:06:33.880 Job to walk. 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:39.640 He could hardly freaking walk in Oh. I don't know. 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:43.640 I'm doubting my I'm doubting my little I've. 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:46.320 Seen no evidence that suggests he is involved, but he 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:53.760 certainly sounds creepy. I'm Dan box And from news dot 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.520 com dot Au. This is Witness William Tyrell episode nine, 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:08.560 Something Wicked. At this point, it's easy to lose focus 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:13.840 and concentrate on people like Bill Spedding, who successfully sued 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.040 the state government after his life was unfairly turned upside down, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.160 and Paul Savage, who we talked about in the last episode, 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.480 and Gary Jubilin and David Laidlaw, who would take over 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:30.760 the investigation after Gary has taken off it, and to 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:34.680 forget about the person at the center of this whole thing, 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:40.840 William Tyrrel, the little boy who'd been taken from one 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.119 set of parents as a baby and given to another, 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:48.679 and who grew up to love riding his bicycle, playing 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:54.400 Daddy Tiger and wearing his Spider Man suit. I'm just 0:07:54.520 --> 0:08:00.960 saying you can be distracted, and that matters, actually, if 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:04.160 you're one of the detectives whose job it is to 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:08.440 find out what happened to William, when every moment's spent 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.240 looking at the wrong person is a moment not spent 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:18.840 looking for the right person. And no, I don't pretend 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.480 to really know what it's like to be a homicide detective, 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.200 and I never knew William Tyrrell. I have no claim 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:29.960 to any special knowledge of him, and don't pretend to 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:35.720 be able to tell his story. But I do have 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.840 a three year old daughter, and I know how much 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:45.079 she fills our lives with joy and laughter and sometimes tantrums. 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:51.320 So that helps me remember why William matters. But if 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.920 William matters, then it matters that we look at the 0:08:54.960 --> 0:09:00.000 investigation that so far hasn't found him and keep us 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.120 asking why and what went right and what went wrong 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.400 and who are all these different people who got caught 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.120 up in this investigation? 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.040 Testing Testing, Hello helone. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.240 Okay, Nina, you are the producer on this podcast, but 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:29.200 you've actually done most of the work on Frank Abbott. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.240 Yes, So at the time of William's disappearance, Frank was 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:34.360 living in Heron's Creek. 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.840 We've been there. It's a really small village in the forest. 0:09:39.200 --> 0:09:41.840 There's a train line and a sawmill and a few 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.440 houses and it's about ten minutes on the back roads 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.600 from Kendall where William Tyrrel was staying. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.679 That's right. Frank was living in a caravan on the 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:54.200 property of daniel Parish. Daniel would later say at the 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.800 inquest that he was scared of Frank and that Frank 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.200 used to tell people that he knew where William's body was. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:03.360 She used to brag to everyone a Q I keep 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:06.920 on saying, this is that Jeff Allen's place. It made 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:08.920 me sick, and I said, if you reported it to 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.640 the police, and I don't know if he did or not. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.400 I certainly did tell him. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:15.840 So that's Daniel speaking outside the inquest, And. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.120 Also at the inquest, Daniel said that Frank had threatened 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:21.240 him at some stage and told him he'd beaten a 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.360 murder charge before and he wasn't afraid to go to. 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.360 Jail, so he'd beaten a murder charge. 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:25.720 Frank. 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.320 I think he's talking there about the murder of Helen Harrison. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:29.160 So. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.839 Helen's a seventeen year old. She went missing while riding 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.040 her bike home from work on the very northern edge 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.320 of Sydney in March of nineteen sixty eight. 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:39.440 But Frank was put on trial. 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.400 Yes, he was twenty two years later in nineteen ninety 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.760 he was found not guilty, but prosecutors at the time 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:48.760 argued that there were witnesses who said in court that 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.559 Frank admitted that he followed Helen from work on her bike, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.160 grabbed her and drove her into the bush and raped 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:58.080 and buried her. One witness said that Frank showed him 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.480 a pair of blue underwear that he claimed belonged to Helen. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.240 And when Helen's body is discovered in a shallow grave, 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:04.840 she's naked from the waist down. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.079 Okay, But Frank's parents say he was somewhere else the 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.960 day the murder happened, and he's ultimately found not guilty 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:13.720 by the court. 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.240 I went through his court records and there's also a 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.760 separate and decent assault charge on there from twenty ten, 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.920 but again Frank was found not guilty, and going through 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:24.079 other records, I also found that Frank had a two 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.400 year old son that died in nineteen eighty four. His 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.240 death certificate lists the cause of death as asphyxiation. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.679 Which could be completely benign. 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.840 Could be anything. Sometimes when a child dies in their 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.760 sleep and there's sort of a sleeping accident, that could 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:38.440 be assixiation. 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:38.920 Yep. 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.559 Okay, So there's nothing we can take from that cause 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.080 of death. But we do know that Frank wasn't charged 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.680 in relation to that at all. But the more you 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.400 ask about Frank, the more you run into rumor and suspicion. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.880 At the inquest, a local shopkeeper said that Frank talked 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.360 about William a lot in the weeks after he went missing. 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:58.880 He said that Frank said the police were looking in 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.920 the wrong place. There was also evidence at the inquest 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.800 where one of his neighbors said that she heard a 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.920 child screaming on the day after William went missing while 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.839 she was out in her garden. But one interesting thing 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:13.160 is that we were in that area on our last trip. 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.600 I heard what sounded like a child screaming, but later 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:17.760 realized was a peacock. 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.240 Okay, so we got rumor and we got suspicion. I 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:25.800 know a little bit about how the police investigating William's 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:30.440 disappearance started looking at Frank, so Daniel Parrish, who said 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.880 he was scared of Frank. He reported Frank's claim that 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.160 the three year old was on Jeff Owen's property. The 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:40.080 inquest he Jeff had called the house where William was 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:44.080 reported missing that morning about doing some work, but he 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.480 said no one told him the children were there. Jeff's 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.040 evidence at the inquest was he's pretty sure he didn't 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:56.200 have any contact with Frank that morning, but Frank later 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.800 moved into a caravan on Jeff's property, and police records 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.160 show that Gary Jubilin asked one of the detectives on 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.400 the strike force to look at Frank in twenty eighteen. 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:11.000 I've also spoken to a woman called Jody Huntley who 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.040 lived next door to that property. She posted on Facebook 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.120 asking why that block of land where Frank lived hadn't 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.400 been searched and saying that there was a kid's spider 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:27.040 man sleeping bag in Frank's caravan. So someone else on 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.640 Facebook told Jody that she should report this. Jody told 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:34.800 me she'd contacted crime stoppers but didn't hear back, which 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.120 we've heard quite a few times in the course of 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.840 this series. So Jody went to the police in person, 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:44.560 and a week or so after she said the police 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.120 the detectives were at her door. Then the block of 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.439 land where Frank had been living was searched. Jody and 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:54.760 her husband gave evidence at the inquest into William's disappearance, 0:13:55.280 --> 0:13:59.920 saying that Frank kept talking about William, even one night 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.199 he knocked on their door to tell them that Jeff 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.160 Owen was a person of interest in the investigation, and 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:12.080 they suspected Frank was sexually abusing their dog Look. Unsurprisingly, 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:16.120 Jody had sleepless nights about all this, she said, but 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:21.600 after giving her evidence, she says, everything went quiet and 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:27.240 she doesn't understand why. Here's where I think the inquest 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:32.720 into William's disappearance runs into a problem because it's running 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.240 at the same time as the police are investigating people, 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:42.000 particularly Frank Abbott, and that's not normal. An inquest normally 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:46.760 runs only after the police have exhausted their investigation and 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.000 can't do anything more with it themselves. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.640 Worldwide, these cases have proven to be the most difficult 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:55.120 to solve. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.040 This is the lawyer leading the inquest in his opening statement. 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.720 William was murdered and that's a big If. 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:05.800 He says it's very rare for a child to be 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.000 abducted by a stranger and murdered. 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:12.120 Then it may be one of those rear three percent 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:13.720 of cases. 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.680 But abduction by a stranger is definitely something the inquest 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:18.720 is considering. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.880 The offender in such crimes is a sneaky complex offender 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.080 who has hidden his or her desires for some time 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:28.920 and has chosen to act on those desires. 0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:34.280 Only they haven't got evidence of a sneaky complex offender, 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:38.040 and the lead detective Gary Jubilin, who was planning to 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:42.040 use this inquest to publicly question Paul Savage, is not 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:46.080 called to give evidence. Instead, the inquest takes a look 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.520 at several of those people we've talked about in this series, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:54.240 Bill and Paul, and Tony Jones, who doesn't have an 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:58.520 alibi for the morning in September twenty fourteen when William 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.400 was reported missing and whose burnt out car was later 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.360 found in the bush, and who was subsequently convicted of 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.920 child abuse. Tony's evidence at the inquest is that he 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:14.520 didn't have anything to do with William's disappearance, though he 0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:19.320 couldn't remember what he was doing that morning. After giving evidence, 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.160 Tony gets into a confrontation with the media waiting outside 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.560 the inquest why can't you remember where you wear that day? 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.800 Smashing a photographer's camera to the ground and is bundled 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:37.280 inside a car by detectives. There are other people the 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:38.800 inquest looked at. Also. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.480 This is an electronically recorded interview between Detective Sony Side 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.640 and Mark Dukes and at the Wogga Police station. 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:52.880 There's talk of a pedophile ring operating in the Kendall area. 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.600 Alside president is Detective Sonia Castle. 0:16:55.560 --> 0:17:00.640 Lonigan an evidence about other local sex offenders, not all 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:05.520 of whom cooperate with a police investigation or even answer 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:06.399 their questions. 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.560 You've been given legal advice not to saying him, so 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:12.520 we're going to record that. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.240 But it doesn't seem to go anywhere. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.439 Do you wish to sign hing for the purpose of 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.480 this interview? Can you please state your full name? Please? 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:25.160 And diverse. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.240 There's no real evidence of anyone's involvement. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.040 I'm going to ask you some questions in relation to 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.760 the disappearance and suspected murder of William Tyrell at Kendall 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.040 on Friday, the twelfth day of September two thousand and 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:45.760 four to a eight Do you understand that? Do you 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:46.520 understand that? 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.240 And no one at the inquest seems able to answer 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:58.320 the question what happened to William Tyrell, at least it 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.679 seems until the inquest starts looking at Frank. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:07.879 So. 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.840 One of Frank Abbott's friends is a man named Ray Porter. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.520 He drove a white Holden Commodore station wagon, and the 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:18.280 inquest heard that Frank sometimes drove Ray's car, and other 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.760 witnesses would also describe Frank driving a white station wagon 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.000 around the Kendall area. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.960 William's foster mother says she remembers seeing a white station 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:31.040 wagon parked outside the house where William was reported missing. 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:35.560 She does and in twenty nineteen, Frank's friend Ray Porter. 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.679 So he's the guy who drives a white station wagon. 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.000 That's right. He was in a nursing home and he 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.719 apparently makes a confession telling a nurse I didn't do 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.359 anything wrong. All I did was give my best mate 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.280 and a boy a lift. And the nurse asked him 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.479 at the time, are you talking about William Tyrrell? 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:53.560 That's the evidence from the inquest. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:58.800 That's right, yeah, and Ray replied yes. Ray also said 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.240 that he picked up his best mate and the child 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.080 from a shared behind Kendall Public School and drove them 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.520 three hundred kilometers north. The nurse reported what she heard 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.680 to another nurse who went to the police. 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:16.479 But there are problems. If that child's was William Tyrell, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.760 then how did he get from the house where he's 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:23.080 staying outside Kendall to the school which is at a 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.399 look at about two and a half kilometers away. And 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.400 I guess if the idea is that Ray's mate, possibly 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.480 Frank Abbott, took William from the house to the school, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.520 then how did that happen without a car? And if 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.280 that person had a car already, why did he need 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:41.280 Ray Porter to pick him up and drive him north. 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.960 The other problem is that ray Porter was in Port 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:47.280 Macquarie Hospital getting dialysis on the day that William went missing. 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:49.719 His car was also not picked up on the traffic 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:52.800 cameras along the highway outside Kendall that day, but it 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:54.879 was the next day and the day after. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:00.080 And another problem is that the inquest doesn't start looking 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.440 at this in public until March twenty twenty, which is 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:08.520 a full year after the inquest starts, during which time 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.440 Frank has all the evidence sent to him in prison 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.760 by the inquest so he can read it before the 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:22.000 inquest hearing happens, including everything suggesting a connection to a 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:25.960 white station wagon or William Tyrrell. And at the same time, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.000 the police investigation into Frank is still ongoing because they're 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.639 recording his phone calls. 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.879 I like, Martin, good day, Frank. You solicitor came in 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:44.040 yesterday and that was to do with your appeal. 0:20:44.280 --> 0:20:47.679 Yeah, is she come? And I asked her about the 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:51.359 other paper and that tune. She said, just don't say nothing. 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:52.520 She said, not to say nothing. 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:53.760 Yeah. 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:56.080 This is a phone call between Frank Abbott and a 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:00.000 Christian pastor named Martin Parrish who got to know Frank's 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.320 through his local chapel in the Backwards near where William 0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:06.719 went missing. So we've got transcripts which were tended at 0:21:06.720 --> 0:21:10.480 the inquest. This is somebody else reading them. This call 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:13.600 is July twenty nineteen, so that's a few months after 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:16.760 the inquest started and Frank's in prison for child sex 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:18.320 offenses against multiple children. 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.680 At this point, the pastor, Martin Parrish says he's spoken 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:23.840 to Frank's lawyer. 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:27.560 Okay, I got to speak to her on Monday, and 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.800 she told me she had booked in to see you tomorrow. 0:21:31.760 --> 0:21:35.760 Well, I asked about the thing about the paperwork. I 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.800 didn't understand a lot of it, and she said that 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:41.960 you just told me. Don't answer. You're going to be 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:43.200 charged with something else. 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:45.879 At this point, we don't know what that something else is. 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:49.359 And I said, there's nothing there that I can be 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.320 charged with anything else. What I said was the truth. 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:54.520 It doesn't involve me in any way. 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.280 But there is a second phone call that same. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:01.680 Day, Hello, get a Frank. Twice in one day. 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.840 Frank says he's been moved to prisons and he's been 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:05.800 kept in isolation. 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:10.840 Mate. I guess they're doing it because the police any 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:14.199 stage could release names of their current investigation and that 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:17.280 were done and go through the whole system and put 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:17.800 you at risk. 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:22.600 The officer, he said, he spoke they got other charges 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:28.679 or something, and I said, well, all this is just 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.480 a person of interest. I'm not charged, just a person 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:32.119 who interested. 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.560 That that's all. I understand that you're a person of interest. 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.359 That phrase person of interest is the key here, because 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.000 at this time Frank is a person of interest in 0:22:42.040 --> 0:22:45.480 the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell mad have 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:46.320 you put have all. 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.199 The statements gone back into your personal files or are 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:50.840 they still sitting with you in the cell. 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:53.720 I've still got all the papers in the cell here 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:54.040 with me. 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:58.159 The two men talk about papers and statements and it 0:22:58.200 --> 0:23:00.840 becomes clear that Frank has been set and the police 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.040 brief of evidence which the police gave to the inquest 0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:06.960 and the inquest gave to Frank. So they talk about 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:08.919 what other witnesses have told detectives. 0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:14.400 Yep, so I gather my brother is saying that he 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.919 that you borrowed the car without consent or what is 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:18.359 he saying? 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.639 They're talking about Daniel Parish, who's Martin's brother, and Frank 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:26.240 had been living with Daniel. It was Daniel who said 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:28.760 he was scared of Frank and that Frank used to 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:29.880 drive his cars. 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:34.080 Yeah, well no, he said I had the car and 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:36.920 all that, and I drove around everywhere. But he said 0:23:36.960 --> 0:23:39.800 I never borrowed his car any time. I never took 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.200 his car without permission any time. They wouldn't let me 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:45.600 have the car, and he had the keys, he had 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:46.520 all the cays. 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:50.840 At this point, Daniel hasn't yet given this evidence in public, 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.199 but it sounds like Frank has his witness statement with 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:57.439 him in the prison cell, and he and Martin Parish, 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.440