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Speaker 1: Oh, Frank, I really don't think he had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with me. Frank has lived around this area since

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Speaker 1: the eighties.

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Speaker 2: He was always a figure in John's River. He lived

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Speaker 2: on the highway and he's a hoarder. He's got heaps,

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Speaker 2: so don't He hung around the shop. He was always

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Speaker 2: hanging around the bus stop. He was dirty, so we

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Speaker 2: just stayed away from him as teenage girls.

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Speaker 3: And I got to know him.

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Speaker 2: He gave me the creeps and I always thought he.

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Speaker 3: Was a perver.

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Speaker 4: So to recap the lead detective Gary Jubilin has been

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Speaker 4: taken off the William Tiel investigation. It feels like very

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Speaker 4: few people in the cops or the wider justice system

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Speaker 4: want anything to do with Gary. At this point, someone

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Speaker 4: in the police is leaking to the media saying more

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Speaker 4: than ten detectives from the homicide squad have made complaints

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Speaker 4: about Gary and claiming that he's being investigated for alleged

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Speaker 4: bullying and falsifying Affi Davids, which he didn't do.

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Speaker 2: When I really got to know Frank was in that

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Speaker 2: nine months. I actually lived in John's River. A couple

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Speaker 2: of times I caught him in places where he shouldn't

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Speaker 2: have been like squatting down behind my part are at

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Speaker 2: you know, eleven o'clock at night. How would I describe him? Dirty, felthy.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't look after himself. He doesn't even have a

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Speaker 2: bar that you can have intelligent conversation with the.

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Speaker 4: Under Gary. The police strike force had been focused on

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Speaker 4: a neighbor called Paul Savage, but Gary himself is now

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Speaker 4: under investigation and will soon be charged with criminally recording

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Speaker 4: four conversations with Paul without permission using his mobile phone.

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Speaker 4: Gary won't be coming back to the homicide squad, and

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Speaker 4: without him, the investigation into William's disappearance will turn away

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Speaker 4: from Paul Savage, looking instead at other potential suspects.

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Speaker 2: I first heard about Frank living in a caravan at Moorland.

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Speaker 3: And he used to have sex with a calf.

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Speaker 4: That's sex with a calf, In case you missed it, he.

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Speaker 3: Used to have a calf tied up outside. That was

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Speaker 3: the rumors.

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Speaker 4: Frank was definitely bad. A court heard he had a

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Speaker 4: long criminal history, including firearms offences and escaping from custody.

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Speaker 3: And the rumors. You know, don't ever talk to Frank Abbott.

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Speaker 4: He'd been found not guilty of other charges including indecent

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Speaker 4: assaults and murdering a teenage girl.

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Speaker 3: He killed his wife.

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Speaker 4: Frank didn't kill his wife. She died of natural causes.

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Speaker 3: He's a charm molester.

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Speaker 4: That one's true, though Frank is currently doing time for

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Speaker 4: child sexual abuse.

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Speaker 2: I've seen Frank there and it was in that few

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Speaker 2: days after William went.

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Speaker 5: Missing, because we were all talking about it.

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Speaker 4: This woman, Gale Veronica, was Frank's neighbor. He did work

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Speaker 4: on her property, which is a short drive from where

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Speaker 4: William was reported missing on the mid north coast of

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Speaker 4: New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: You know, he always done a good job.

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Speaker 4: Gail says she saw standing on the highway near Kendall

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Speaker 4: in the days after William went missing.

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Speaker 2: I say, old Frank standing there and he could hardly war.

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Speaker 4: Frank was elderly. Gail says. He had trouble walking.

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Speaker 2: And I debated whether to pick him up, but the

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Speaker 2: last time I picked him up he's freaking stunt. I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to stop and put him in the car.

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Speaker 4: Frank also had an indirect connection to the house in

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Speaker 4: Kendall where William was staying. He knew another tradesman, a

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Speaker 4: man called Jeff Owen, who called the house that morning

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Speaker 4: about some work. And we've discovered Frank himself had been

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Speaker 4: employed by the owner of the subdivision on which that

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Speaker 4: house and the road outside it were built, and Frank

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Speaker 4: likely knew the property before William went missing.

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Speaker 5: That you know what, Dan, I always thought, saying as

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Speaker 5: a perver he liked girls. But now when I think

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Speaker 5: of it, all the little boys he used to have

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Speaker 5: hanging aroundy all the time.

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Speaker 4: Gail says. There was this one boy in particular who

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Speaker 4: was quite young.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he was onny Oh.

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Speaker 2: I don't think he was even going to school because

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Speaker 2: Frank used to getting ready and put him on the

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Speaker 2: bus when he started school.

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Speaker 4: So maybe it's not surprising with Gary suddenly gone and

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Speaker 4: the inquest he helped set in motion now ready to

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Speaker 4: start within weeks, that those people wanting to distance themselves

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Speaker 4: from Gary would start looking elsewhere.

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Speaker 2: But nothing was ever proved.

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Speaker 4: Did you know Frank after William went missing? No, he didn't,

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Speaker 4: so he never spoke to him after that.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 5: No, And seeing that once that on the highway, what makes.

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Speaker 4: You think he wasn't involved in what happened to William.

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Speaker 2: I'm really doubting myself now, Dan, After since I've contacted you.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe Frank just.

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Speaker 3: Wanted everyone to think that.

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Speaker 2: Girls were his sickness. Why I don't think he was

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Speaker 2: involved because he had a job to freaking walk that day.

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Speaker 2: I've seen him on the highway.

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Speaker 7: He had a.

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Speaker 8: Job to walk.

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Speaker 2: He could hardly freaking walk in Oh. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I'm doubting my I'm doubting my little I've.

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Speaker 4: Seen no evidence that suggests he is involved, but he

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Speaker 4: certainly sounds creepy. I'm Dan box And from news dot

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Speaker 4: com dot Au. This is Witness William Tyrell episode nine,

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Speaker 4: Something Wicked. At this point, it's easy to lose focus

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Speaker 4: and concentrate on people like Bill Spedding, who successfully sued

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Speaker 4: the state government after his life was unfairly turned upside down,

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Speaker 4: and Paul Savage, who we talked about in the last episode,

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Speaker 4: and Gary Jubilin and David Laidlaw, who would take over

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Speaker 4: the investigation after Gary has taken off it, and to

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Speaker 4: forget about the person at the center of this whole thing,

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Speaker 4: William Tyrrel, the little boy who'd been taken from one

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Speaker 4: set of parents as a baby and given to another,

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Speaker 4: and who grew up to love riding his bicycle, playing

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Speaker 4: Daddy Tiger and wearing his Spider Man suit. I'm just

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Speaker 4: saying you can be distracted, and that matters, actually, if

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Speaker 4: you're one of the detectives whose job it is to

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Speaker 4: find out what happened to William, when every moment's spent

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Speaker 4: looking at the wrong person is a moment not spent

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Speaker 4: looking for the right person. And no, I don't pretend

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Speaker 4: to really know what it's like to be a homicide detective,

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Speaker 4: and I never knew William Tyrrell. I have no claim

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Speaker 4: to any special knowledge of him, and don't pretend to

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Speaker 4: be able to tell his story. But I do have

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Speaker 4: a three year old daughter, and I know how much

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Speaker 4: she fills our lives with joy and laughter and sometimes tantrums.

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Speaker 4: So that helps me remember why William matters. But if

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Speaker 4: William matters, then it matters that we look at the

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Speaker 4: investigation that so far hasn't found him and keep us

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Speaker 4: asking why and what went right and what went wrong

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Speaker 4: and who are all these different people who got caught

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Speaker 4: up in this investigation?

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Speaker 3: Testing Testing, Hello helone.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Nina, you are the producer on this podcast, but

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Speaker 4: you've actually done most of the work on Frank Abbott.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So at the time of William's disappearance, Frank was

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Speaker 3: living in Heron's Creek.

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Speaker 4: We've been there. It's a really small village in the forest.

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Speaker 4: There's a train line and a sawmill and a few

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Speaker 4: houses and it's about ten minutes on the back roads

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Speaker 4: from Kendall where William Tyrrel was staying.

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Speaker 3: That's right. Frank was living in a caravan on the

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Speaker 3: property of daniel Parish. Daniel would later say at the

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Speaker 3: inquest that he was scared of Frank and that Frank

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Speaker 3: used to tell people that he knew where William's body was.

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Speaker 9: She used to brag to everyone a Q I keep

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Speaker 9: on saying, this is that Jeff Allen's place. It made

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Speaker 9: me sick, and I said, if you reported it to

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Speaker 9: the police, and I don't know if he did or not.

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Speaker 9: I certainly did tell him.

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Speaker 4: So that's Daniel speaking outside the inquest, And.

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Speaker 3: Also at the inquest, Daniel said that Frank had threatened

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Speaker 3: him at some stage and told him he'd beaten a

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Speaker 3: murder charge before and he wasn't afraid to go to.

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Speaker 4: Jail, so he'd beaten a murder charge.

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Speaker 6: Frank.

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Speaker 3: I think he's talking there about the murder of Helen Harrison.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 3: Helen's a seventeen year old. She went missing while riding

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Speaker 3: her bike home from work on the very northern edge

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Speaker 3: of Sydney in March of nineteen sixty eight.

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Speaker 4: But Frank was put on trial.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was twenty two years later in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 3: he was found not guilty, but prosecutors at the time

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Speaker 3: argued that there were witnesses who said in court that

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Speaker 3: Frank admitted that he followed Helen from work on her bike,

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Speaker 3: grabbed her and drove her into the bush and raped

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Speaker 3: and buried her. One witness said that Frank showed him

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Speaker 3: a pair of blue underwear that he claimed belonged to Helen.

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Speaker 3: And when Helen's body is discovered in a shallow grave,

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Speaker 3: she's naked from the waist down.

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Speaker 4: Okay, But Frank's parents say he was somewhere else the

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Speaker 4: day the murder happened, and he's ultimately found not guilty

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Speaker 4: by the court.

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Speaker 3: I went through his court records and there's also a

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Speaker 3: separate and decent assault charge on there from twenty ten,

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Speaker 3: but again Frank was found not guilty, and going through

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Speaker 3: other records, I also found that Frank had a two

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Speaker 3: year old son that died in nineteen eighty four. His

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Speaker 3: death certificate lists the cause of death as asphyxiation.

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Speaker 4: Which could be completely benign.

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Speaker 3: Could be anything. Sometimes when a child dies in their

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Speaker 3: sleep and there's sort of a sleeping accident, that could

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Speaker 3: be assixiation.

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Speaker 6: Yep.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So there's nothing we can take from that cause

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Speaker 3: of death. But we do know that Frank wasn't charged

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Speaker 3: in relation to that at all. But the more you

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Speaker 3: ask about Frank, the more you run into rumor and suspicion.

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Speaker 3: At the inquest, a local shopkeeper said that Frank talked

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Speaker 3: about William a lot in the weeks after he went missing.

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Speaker 3: He said that Frank said the police were looking in

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Speaker 3: the wrong place. There was also evidence at the inquest

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Speaker 3: where one of his neighbors said that she heard a

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Speaker 3: child screaming on the day after William went missing while

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Speaker 3: she was out in her garden. But one interesting thing

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Speaker 3: is that we were in that area on our last trip.

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Speaker 3: I heard what sounded like a child screaming, but later

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Speaker 3: realized was a peacock.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so we got rumor and we got suspicion. I

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Speaker 4: know a little bit about how the police investigating William's

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Speaker 4: disappearance started looking at Frank, so Daniel Parrish, who said

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Speaker 4: he was scared of Frank. He reported Frank's claim that

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Speaker 4: the three year old was on Jeff Owen's property. The

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Speaker 4: inquest he Jeff had called the house where William was

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Speaker 4: reported missing that morning about doing some work, but he

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Speaker 4: said no one told him the children were there. Jeff's

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Speaker 4: evidence at the inquest was he's pretty sure he didn't

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Speaker 4: have any contact with Frank that morning, but Frank later

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Speaker 4: moved into a caravan on Jeff's property, and police records

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Speaker 4: show that Gary Jubilin asked one of the detectives on

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Speaker 4: the strike force to look at Frank in twenty eighteen.

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Speaker 4: I've also spoken to a woman called Jody Huntley who

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Speaker 4: lived next door to that property. She posted on Facebook

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Speaker 4: asking why that block of land where Frank lived hadn't

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Speaker 4: been searched and saying that there was a kid's spider

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Speaker 4: man sleeping bag in Frank's caravan. So someone else on

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Speaker 4: Facebook told Jody that she should report this. Jody told

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Speaker 4: me she'd contacted crime stoppers but didn't hear back, which

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Speaker 4: we've heard quite a few times in the course of

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Speaker 4: this series. So Jody went to the police in person,

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Speaker 4: and a week or so after she said the police

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Speaker 4: the detectives were at her door. Then the block of

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Speaker 4: land where Frank had been living was searched. Jody and

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Speaker 4: her husband gave evidence at the inquest into William's disappearance,

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Speaker 4: saying that Frank kept talking about William, even one night

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Speaker 4: he knocked on their door to tell them that Jeff

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Speaker 4: Owen was a person of interest in the investigation, and

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Speaker 4: they suspected Frank was sexually abusing their dog Look. Unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 4: Jody had sleepless nights about all this, she said, but

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Speaker 4: after giving her evidence, she says, everything went quiet and

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Speaker 4: she doesn't understand why. Here's where I think the inquest

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Speaker 4: into William's disappearance runs into a problem because it's running

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Speaker 4: at the same time as the police are investigating people,

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Speaker 4: particularly Frank Abbott, and that's not normal. An inquest normally

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Speaker 4: runs only after the police have exhausted their investigation and

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Speaker 4: can't do anything more with it themselves.

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Speaker 8: Worldwide, these cases have proven to be the most difficult

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Speaker 8: to solve.

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Speaker 4: This is the lawyer leading the inquest in his opening statement.

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Speaker 8: William was murdered and that's a big If.

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Speaker 4: He says it's very rare for a child to be

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Speaker 4: abducted by a stranger and murdered.

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Speaker 8: Then it may be one of those rear three percent

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Speaker 8: of cases.

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Speaker 4: But abduction by a stranger is definitely something the inquest

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Speaker 4: is considering.

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Speaker 8: The offender in such crimes is a sneaky complex offender

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Speaker 8: who has hidden his or her desires for some time

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Speaker 8: and has chosen to act on those desires.

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Speaker 4: Only they haven't got evidence of a sneaky complex offender,

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Speaker 4: and the lead detective Gary Jubilin, who was planning to

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Speaker 4: use this inquest to publicly question Paul Savage, is not

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Speaker 4: called to give evidence. Instead, the inquest takes a look

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Speaker 4: at several of those people we've talked about in this series,

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Speaker 4: Bill and Paul, and Tony Jones, who doesn't have an

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Speaker 4: alibi for the morning in September twenty fourteen when William

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Speaker 4: was reported missing and whose burnt out car was later

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Speaker 4: found in the bush, and who was subsequently convicted of

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Speaker 4: child abuse. Tony's evidence at the inquest is that he

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Speaker 4: didn't have anything to do with William's disappearance, though he

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Speaker 4: couldn't remember what he was doing that morning. After giving evidence,

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Speaker 4: Tony gets into a confrontation with the media waiting outside

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Speaker 4: the inquest why can't you remember where you wear that day?

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Speaker 4: Smashing a photographer's camera to the ground and is bundled

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Speaker 4: inside a car by detectives. There are other people the

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Speaker 4: inquest looked at. Also.

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Speaker 10: This is an electronically recorded interview between Detective Sony Side

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Speaker 10: and Mark Dukes and at the Wogga Police station.

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Speaker 4: There's talk of a pedophile ring operating in the Kendall area.

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Speaker 10: Alside president is Detective Sonia Castle.

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Speaker 4: Lonigan an evidence about other local sex offenders, not all

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Speaker 4: of whom cooperate with a police investigation or even answer

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Speaker 4: their questions.

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Speaker 10: You've been given legal advice not to saying him, so

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Speaker 10: we're going to record that.

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Speaker 4: But it doesn't seem to go anywhere.

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Speaker 10: Do you wish to sign hing for the purpose of

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Speaker 10: this interview? Can you please state your full name? Please?

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Speaker 10: And diverse.

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Speaker 4: There's no real evidence of anyone's involvement.

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Speaker 10: I'm going to ask you some questions in relation to

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Speaker 10: the disappearance and suspected murder of William Tyrell at Kendall

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Speaker 10: on Friday, the twelfth day of September two thousand and

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Speaker 10: four to a eight Do you understand that? Do you

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Speaker 10: understand that?

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Speaker 4: And no one at the inquest seems able to answer

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Speaker 4: the question what happened to William Tyrell, at least it

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Speaker 4: seems until the inquest starts looking at Frank.

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Speaker 6: So.

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Speaker 3: One of Frank Abbott's friends is a man named Ray Porter.

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Speaker 3: He drove a white Holden Commodore station wagon, and the

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Speaker 3: inquest heard that Frank sometimes drove Ray's car, and other

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Speaker 3: witnesses would also describe Frank driving a white station wagon

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Speaker 3: around the Kendall area.

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Speaker 4: William's foster mother says she remembers seeing a white station

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Speaker 4: wagon parked outside the house where William was reported missing.

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Speaker 3: She does and in twenty nineteen, Frank's friend Ray Porter.

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Speaker 4: So he's the guy who drives a white station wagon.

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Speaker 3: That's right. He was in a nursing home and he

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Speaker 3: apparently makes a confession telling a nurse I didn't do

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Speaker 3: anything wrong. All I did was give my best mate

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Speaker 3: and a boy a lift. And the nurse asked him

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Speaker 3: at the time, are you talking about William Tyrrell?

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Speaker 4: That's the evidence from the inquest.

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Speaker 3: That's right, yeah, and Ray replied yes. Ray also said

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Speaker 3: that he picked up his best mate and the child

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Speaker 3: from a shared behind Kendall Public School and drove them

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Speaker 3: three hundred kilometers north. The nurse reported what she heard

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Speaker 3: to another nurse who went to the police.

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Speaker 4: But there are problems. If that child's was William Tyrell,

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Speaker 4: then how did he get from the house where he's

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Speaker 4: staying outside Kendall to the school which is at a

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Speaker 4: look at about two and a half kilometers away. And

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Speaker 4: I guess if the idea is that Ray's mate, possibly

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Speaker 4: Frank Abbott, took William from the house to the school,

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Speaker 4: then how did that happen without a car? And if

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Speaker 4: that person had a car already, why did he need

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Speaker 4: Ray Porter to pick him up and drive him north.

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Speaker 3: The other problem is that ray Porter was in Port

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Speaker 3: Macquarie Hospital getting dialysis on the day that William went missing.

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Speaker 3: His car was also not picked up on the traffic

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Speaker 3: cameras along the highway outside Kendall that day, but it

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Speaker 3: was the next day and the day after.

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Speaker 4: And another problem is that the inquest doesn't start looking

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Speaker 4: at this in public until March twenty twenty, which is

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Speaker 4: a full year after the inquest starts, during which time

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Speaker 4: Frank has all the evidence sent to him in prison

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Speaker 4: by the inquest so he can read it before the

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Speaker 4: inquest hearing happens, including everything suggesting a connection to a

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Speaker 4: white station wagon or William Tyrrell. And at the same time,

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Speaker 4: the police investigation into Frank is still ongoing because they're

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Speaker 4: recording his phone calls.

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Speaker 6: I like, Martin, good day, Frank. You solicitor came in

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Speaker 6: yesterday and that was to do with your appeal.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, is she come? And I asked her about the

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Speaker 8: other paper and that tune. She said, just don't say nothing.

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Speaker 6: She said, not to say nothing.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: This is a phone call between Frank Abbott and a

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Speaker 3: Christian pastor named Martin Parrish who got to know Frank's

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Speaker 3: through his local chapel in the Backwards near where William

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Speaker 3: went missing. So we've got transcripts which were tended at

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Speaker 3: the inquest. This is somebody else reading them. This call

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Speaker 3: is July twenty nineteen, so that's a few months after

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Speaker 3: the inquest started and Frank's in prison for child sex

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Speaker 3: offenses against multiple children.

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Speaker 4: At this point, the pastor, Martin Parrish says he's spoken

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Speaker 4: to Frank's lawyer.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I got to speak to her on Monday, and

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Speaker 6: she told me she had booked in to see you tomorrow.

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Speaker 8: Well, I asked about the thing about the paperwork. I

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00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 8: didn't understand a lot of it, and she said that

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Speaker 8: you just told me. Don't answer. You're going to be

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Speaker 8: charged with something else.

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Speaker 3: At this point, we don't know what that something else is.

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Speaker 8: And I said, there's nothing there that I can be

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Speaker 8: charged with anything else. What I said was the truth.

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Speaker 8: It doesn't involve me in any way.

359
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Speaker 3: But there is a second phone call that same.

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Speaker 6: Day, Hello, get a Frank. Twice in one day.

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Speaker 3: Frank says he's been moved to prisons and he's been

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Speaker 3: kept in isolation.

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Speaker 6: Mate. I guess they're doing it because the police any

364
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,199
Speaker 6: stage could release names of their current investigation and that

365
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 6: were done and go through the whole system and put

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Speaker 6: you at risk.

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Speaker 8: The officer, he said, he spoke they got other charges

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Speaker 8: or something, and I said, well, all this is just

369
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Speaker 8: a person of interest. I'm not charged, just a person

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Speaker 8: who interested.

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Speaker 6: That that's all. I understand that you're a person of interest.

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Speaker 4: That phrase person of interest is the key here, because

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Speaker 4: at this time Frank is a person of interest in

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Speaker 4: the investigation into the disappearance of William Tyrell mad have

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Speaker 4: you put have all.

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Speaker 6: The statements gone back into your personal files or are

377
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Speaker 6: they still sitting with you in the cell.

378
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Speaker 8: I've still got all the papers in the cell here

379
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Speaker 8: with me.

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00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,159
Speaker 3: The two men talk about papers and statements and it

381
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 3: becomes clear that Frank has been set and the police

382
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 3: brief of evidence which the police gave to the inquest

383
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: and the inquest gave to Frank. So they talk about

384
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Speaker 3: what other witnesses have told detectives.

385
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Speaker 6: Yep, so I gather my brother is saying that he

386
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 6: that you borrowed the car without consent or what is

387
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 6: he saying?

388
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Speaker 4: They're talking about Daniel Parish, who's Martin's brother, and Frank

389
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 4: had been living with Daniel. It was Daniel who said

390
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Speaker 4: he was scared of Frank and that Frank used to

391
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Speaker 4: drive his cars.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, well no, he said I had the car and

393
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Speaker 8: all that, and I drove around everywhere. But he said

394
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 8: I never borrowed his car any time. I never took

395
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Speaker 8: his car without permission any time. They wouldn't let me

396
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Speaker 8: have the car, and he had the keys, he had

397
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Speaker 8: all the cays.

398
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Speaker 4: At this point, Daniel hasn't yet given this evidence in public,

399
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,199
Speaker 4: but it sounds like Frank has his witness statement with

400
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 4: him in the prison cell, and he and Martin Parish,

401
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 4: the pastor, are talking about Frank's was reponse.

402
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, hey, look, I can imagine him not letting you

403
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 6: use the car because you don't have insurance. And then

404
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 6: he told me he'd make you use the car when

405
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 6: you were doing him a favor.

406
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 4: The two men also talk about another witness, a child

407
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 4: who we can't identify. The inquest heard that this child

408
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 4: was said to have told a babysitter that Frank claimed

409
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 4: he killed William and put his body in a suitcase.

410
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Speaker 8: And I think he told somebody that I told him

411
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Speaker 8: that I put him in a bag and buried him.

412
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Speaker 8: And he said if you shared anything, I'm gonna snap

413
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Speaker 8: mum's neck. I'll tell you about it when you come down,

414
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 8: and I'll ask just say that Jeplin and the welfare

415
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 8: Yeah good, okay, now God bless see you.

416
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 4: Okay. So to an outsider, this sounds extraordinary, But is it.

417
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Speaker 3: It's a long way from perfect. I asked off formal

418
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Speaker 3: homicide detective about it. He's not someone who's worked on

419
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: William's case. He's worked on a lot of murders. And

420
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,240
Speaker 3: a lot of inquests. So he told me that normally,

421
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 3: with an inquest, yes, you would let all of those involved,

422
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 3: including potential suspects, see the evidence. And that's because an

423
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 3: inquest is only supposed to happen after the police have

424
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: exhausted every lead in their investigation, which we know didn't

425
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 3: happen in this case.

426
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 4: And in court during the inquest, Frank is able to

427
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 4: take part. He's on an AVL link from prison, so

428
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 4: he's listening to what people are saying about him, and

429
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 4: he's even able to question the witnesses. You said it's

430
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 4: far from perfect. I think that's been kind. So you've

431
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 4: got these two processes, the inquest and the police investigation

432
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 4: into William's disappearance, running at the same time, potentially running

433
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 4: on top of each other. At least at this point,

434
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 4: they seem to be both heading in the same direction.

435
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 4: And I do know from talking to both William's birth

436
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 4: and foster families that they say the coronal lawyers were

437
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 4: feeling confident that they were openly telling people they were

438
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 4: on the right track. Though something happened because last month,

439
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 4: when the inquest came back for that week long hearing,

440
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 4: at one point Frank Abbott interrupted, saying that two of

441
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: the coroner's lawyers came to see him, telling him he

442
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,600
Speaker 4: was no longer a person of interest. The coroner cut

443
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 4: him off, so we got no explanation. We don't know

444
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 4: if that's true or if Frank is mistaken. All we

445
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: do know is what's in these tapes?

446
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 8: Burning up?

447
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 6: Morning? Frank, Sorry, I mister call yesterday.

448
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 3: This is still July twenty nineteen. It's a week after

449
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 3: the last call. Frank and the pastor, Martin Parrish talk

450
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: about the inquest in more details.

451
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 6: When do you when do you have the interview?

452
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 11: Oh?

453
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 8: Is that next week for the court guys with record case?

454
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 6: Yeah? So yeah, it's all going to be by video link.

455
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, Wednesday, It is good.

456
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, the questions you asked me just before you

457
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 6: left here. You probably need to get legal advice on

458
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 6: those questions.

459
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's what I was going to do. None of

460
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 8: the he shared anything I had anything to do with it.

461
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 8: But that's just what you know. I want to find

462
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 8: out what happened to him, you know, just yes that

463
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 8: I want them to find who done it.

464
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 3: Then the pastor says something revealing.

465
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 6: Have you heard of a name Savage.

466
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 3: The name Savage, Paul Savage.

467
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 8: Yeah, yes, I've heard of it. It was only in

468
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 8: his record. I don't know him outside any of that.

469
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 6: I just heard that name, and I'm not making any connections.

470
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 8: I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, I got his records. Yep, Yeah,

471
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 8: it's in me files on that here.

472
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 4: What's the significance of these two talking about Paul Savage.

473
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 3: Well, you can hear Frank say he's got his records.

474
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 3: It's in the files in his cells with him. And

475
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: that means that Frank, who at this point is considered

476
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 3: a potential suspect, doesn't just have the evidence that plays

477
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 3: have gathered about him, He's also got access to the

478
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 3: evidence about other potential suspects.

479
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 4: So meaning if he's preparing his response to being questioned,

480
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 4: he has everything he could possibly need.

481
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Shortly after this call, in August of twenty nineteen,

482
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: they searched a property near where Frank was living and

483
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: they brought in heavy equipment to move piles of old deadlogs.

484
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 4: On the same day, Frank and his pastor are on

485
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 4: a phone call discussing the evidence.

486
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 8: Oh, I said that it was fourteen oh seven forty eight.

487
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 6: What was that fourteen oh seven.

488
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: Fourteen oh seven is the time a traffic camera out

489
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 4: on the highway picks up one of the cars belonging

490
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 4: to Daniel Parish, the man who Frank once lived with

491
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 4: and who says Frank might have driven them.

492
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 6: Fourteen So that's two clock in the afternoon. Yeah, but

493
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 6: William Tyrell went missing much.

494
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 8: Earlier than that. Yeah, ten o'clock, ten o'clock.

495
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, so they're checking up on every car that

496
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 6: give me a second. The police they're digging up, digging

497
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 6: back in Heron's Creek again.

498
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 8: Yeah.

499
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 6: So I don't think it's got anything to do with

500
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 6: you at all.

501
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: The pastor is wrong about that that search had everything

502
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 3: to do with Frank Abbott.

503
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 6: Oh look, I these are all the things that you

504
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 6: need to write down that it doesn't make sense.

505
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 8: Ring hell, and I ask Helen seeking organize for me

506
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 8: to go on there.

507
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 6: I will give Helen a ring when I get home.

508
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 3: A week after that phone call, it's announced that the

509
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 3: public hearings of the inquest are going to be suspended

510
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: for six months. And the coroner doesn't explain it. But

511
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: Frank and his pastor keep talking on the phone, and

512
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: there's a few clues in these convers suggesting that the

513
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: delay is due to the police investigation.

514
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 8: Martin, are you.

515
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 6: You've read all the witness statements. Is there anything that

516
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 6: is there anything? Did anything that they say anything about you?

517
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 6: And the conversation with David Abbott, No, brother.

518
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 8: I don't. I don't think he ever spoke to David. Yeah,

519
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 8: but Bernie said in his statement that I used to

520
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 8: have arguments with Jeff in eleven in twenty eleven. In

521
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 8: the twenty twelve.

522
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 6: He used to have arguments with Jeff.

523
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 8: Yeah. Well, at the time I was arguing with Jeff

524
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 8: was that he used to go inside so because he

525
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 8: didn't want to listen to it with.

526
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 6: Jeff Jeff Owen.

527
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, he said Jeff had many cars. Well, Jeff never

528
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 8: I hadly know him. He had two the white Sadan.

529
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 4: Thing he had there again is the mention of a

530
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 4: white car like the one William's foster mother says she

531
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: saw that morning. Soon after, there's a suggestion the police

532
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: are looking at where Frank was on the morning William

533
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 4: was reported missing.

534
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's in my head that I was there on

535
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 8: the Thursday working to him till lunchtime. And as you know,

536
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 8: the police got proof that I was in or Hope yep,

537
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 8: from nine point thirty ten o'clock because I drew money

538
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 8: out of me Meank there.

539
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 6: So yeah, like, look, I don't know where the police

540
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 6: are up to.

541
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 3: Two months later, they talk about detectives visiting Frank's brothers,

542
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 3: Lez and David.

543
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 6: Yeah.

544
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 8: I talked to Lez and David a few days ago

545
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 8: now and they see that. Yeah, they've been up there

546
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 8: and seeing them.

547
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 6: Yep.

548
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, they went up and paid the visits.

549
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, they were over here the other day too. They

550
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 6: were here the other day and I was asked to

551
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 6: go speak to their QC.

552
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, because they was up there and they said, oh,

553
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 8: it's all about that murder back in nineteen ninety one,

554
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 8: and said some brought that up. They said I beat

555
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 8: the charger and found not guilty, but they still bring

556
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 8: it up. They said, I's done these and he's done that.

557
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 8: We think he might have done this one.

558
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 3: That's the murder of Helen Harrison, the seventeen year old

559
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 3: who was abducted, raped, and later found buried. Frank was

560
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: found not guilty, but Frank's saying that police are asking

561
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 3: questions about it and that they think he might have

562
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: been involved in William's disappearance.

563
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 6: Well that's their thinking.

564
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 8: Yeah, Now they got CCTV footage of Thursday. He was

565
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 8: just Heather Bray. He was at McDonald's at heather Bray.

566
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 8: They stopped there for a meal on their way up

567
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 8: up to Kendall.

568
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: Heather Bray was where William's foster family stopped at a

569
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 3: McDonald's on the drive from Sydney up to Kendall, where

570
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: William would go missing.

571
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 8: And I borrowed somebody's car and went down enticed him

572
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 8: out with Lowy's and ice cream out of the yard.

573
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 6: So that's what the that's what the feds are trying

574
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 6: to deduct.

575
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 8: They told David that's what i'd done. I borrowed somebody's

576
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 8: car and went down and enticed him out of the yard.

577
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 8: I didn't even know there was anybody like any kid

578
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 8: led straight and I've never been in that street in

579
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 8: my life. And why would I borrow somebody's car to

580
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 8: go up there at that particular time if I didn't

581
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 8: even know there was anybody there.

582
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: The pastor Martin Parrish tells Frank again that the police

583
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 4: are looking at Frank's relationship with Jeff Owen, who's the

584
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 4: tradesman who called the house where William went missing on

585
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: the same morning to talk about some work that needed doing.

586
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 6: So they're saying that you had a good friendship with

587
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 6: with Jeff at that stage.

588
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 4: And at this point, Nina, I think you have to

589
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: ask yourself, what was this pastor doing. So I get

590
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 4: the idea of ministering to his flock, and I get

591
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 4: the idea of Christian forgiveness, but it seems to go

592
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: beyond that. In November twenty nineteen, the police sit Frank

593
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 4: Abbot down for a formal interview.

594
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 8: They wanted to make a record of interview. I said, no,

595
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 8: I'm not speaking to you because I had nothing to

596
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 8: do with it. And they said, we got all this

597
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 8: evidence and all that, and I said, well, if you

598
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 8: got it, why aren't you charging me instead of coming

599
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 8: to question me all the time. So it's a pretty

600
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 8: traumatic day. Oh would have been a traumatic day.

601
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 6: Oh.

602
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 8: They talked to me for ten minutes, asking me questions

603
00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 8: if you played guilty and that now help you and

604
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,959
Speaker 8: all this and then Martin will forgive you. Now, I said,

605
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 8: what for something I didn't do?

606
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 6: What did they say that Martin will forgive you? So

607
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 6: do they think you're lying to me.

608
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 8: That's what they said. Anyway, they said they found a

609
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 8: spider Man's suit, kids clothes or something.

610
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 6: They found what a spider men suit and.

611
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 8: Kids clothes or garbage. Because they're just trying to frighten

612
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 8: or make me confess to something I didn't do.

613
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 6: So it's okay for them to lie to you and

614
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 6: tell you lies. They do it.

615
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 8: All the time.

616
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 3: That same month, the pastor tells Frank that he should

617
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 3: memorize something.

618
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 6: Yep, yeah, you might memorize. You probably don't have anything

619
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 6: with you right now about what my brother has said.

620
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 8: Have you want me to memorize?

621
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 6: Ah? His statement.

622
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 3: That's the statement of Daniel Parrish, who'd gone to the

623
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: police about Frank. Months later, Daniel would give evidence of

624
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 3: the inquest.

625
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 4: The inquest also called the pastor Martin Parish to give

626
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 4: every asking him about these phone conversations and others where

627
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 4: he'd confirmed phone numbers that Frank was After the pastor

628
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 4: was asked, you seem to be taking up issues that

629
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 4: Frank Abbot raises with respect to the Tyrill investigation and

630
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 4: in a sense doing his leg work, and the pastor agreed.

631
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 4: A few weeks ago, Nina and I drove up to

632
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: Heron's creek man that said this way, not the first left,

633
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,840
Speaker 4: but take the second left, and then it's just around.

634
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 8: The corner.

635
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 4: Where martin parishes Isolated Chapel stands.

636
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 8: Yeah, there we go.

637
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 4: There's the church next to his house and his quiet,

638
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:58,479
Speaker 4: sunlit garden. Okay, there's a car, so there's someone home.

639
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 4: I'm going to swing as round and park it facing

640
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 4: that way in the shade, so if we need to leave.

641
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 4: I wanted to ask him why he did this leg work,

642
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 4: as Frank Abbott prepared for the inquest, particularly given Frank

643
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 4: was then in prison for abusing children. But we couldn't

644
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 4: find the pastor. So the neighbour says Martin has been

645
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: away for a month and she doesn't know why, but

646
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 4: she's gonna She wouldn't give me his number, but she's

647
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 4: gonna call him and give him mine. We also left

648
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 4: a written message posted through his screen door. I've got

649
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 4: a number for another priest who works with him.

650
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 8: Oh cool.

651
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 4: When we're back in the office, we've heard nothing.

652
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, how's everything there? Good?

653
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, everything's good.

654
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that's good.

655
00:37:54,560 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 6: Anyway, Jeanette's not with me, so she sends her lad, Yeah.

656
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 8: Yeah, God bless you all there, and I'll give you

657
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 8: a ring bit later on.

658
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 6: Okay.

659
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: And another thing we can't explain at this point is why,

660
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 4: when the inquest finally resumes after that six month break

661
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: in which the police investigated Frank Abbot, Frank is not

662
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: called to answer questions in public.

663
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 11: The final part of an inquest into the disappearance of

664
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 11: New South Wales toddler William Tyrrel has begun.

665
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 4: Meaning all of this will be left hanging without resolution

666
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 4: and crucially, there is still no evidence that puts Frank

667
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: Abbot at the house where William was reported missing.

668
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 11: Rob What are we likely to hear from today's proceedings

669
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 11: by now?

670
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 4: There's a new leadership in the police force.

671
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 12: This is expected to be the final stage of the

672
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,720
Speaker 12: William Tyrrel inquest, set down for two weeks here in Tare.

673
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: As well as replacing Gary jubilin.

674
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 12: The Inquistor's also heard from a number of high profile

675
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 12: people of interest.

676
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 4: There's a new homicide Squad Commander Scott Cook, and a

677
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 4: new commissioner in charge of the police force, Mick Fuller.

678
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 12: This morning, New South Wales Police Comissioner Michael Fuller addressed

679
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 12: criticism police have fallen away from investigating William's disappearance, and.

680
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 4: The reality is that there are four hundred plus cold

681
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 4: cases and I have.

682
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 10: To make sure that each one of those is getting

683
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 10: the same sort of effort.

684
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 4: And by now William's foster parents have gone public in

685
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 4: another podcast with the journalist Leah Harris.

686
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 13: Because it's outrageous that this has happened. It's outrageous has

687
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 13: taken this amount.

688
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 4: Of time criticizing the police for not doing enough to

689
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: find William.

690
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:43,959
Speaker 6: So.

691
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 13: I don't trust police.

692
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 4: I can't and for taking Gary off the investigation.

693
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 14: And nobody, nobody within that police organization is fighting for William.

694
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 13: The only people who are fighting for William is us and.

695
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 4: Gary and personally criticizing those now in charge.

696
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:07,240
Speaker 13: We have been ignored.

697
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 14: I have had to write letters, I have left telephone calls,

698
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 14: I have left messages.

699
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 10: And we have been ignored.

700
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 13: Who exactly has ignored you?

701
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 14: Mix Faller and he's passed it down the chain of

702
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 14: his command till Lands with Scott Cook.

703
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 13: And how has he handled it? Not very well, unprofessional,

704
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 13: incredibly lack of.

705
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:36,879
Speaker 15: Emphasis, extraordinarily poorly, and we would have expected a whole

706
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 15: lot more from someone of that sort of position in

707
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 15: this seniority of the police force.

708
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 13: Sorry, that's just crickets in the wind. Crickets in the wind.

709
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 13: The sound of silence has been deafening, and it's not

710
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 13: for us. Is this for William?

711
00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 4: The inquest doesn't come to an end as expected. Instead,

712
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 4: it's adjourned again for months. Around the same time, Gary

713
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: Jubelin is put on trial for recording his conversations with

714
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 4: the person of interest, Paul Savage. Gary's defense is basically

715
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,240
Speaker 4: that he had a lawful reason to record them because

716
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 4: he was doing police work and also worried that Paul

717
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 4: might accuse him of doing something he hadn't, which actually

718
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 4: Paul does do. I remember sitting in the courtroom when

719
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 4: Paul gave evidence saying that Gary had threatened to arrest

720
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 4: him and saying Gary told him that he was coming

721
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 4: back the next day to pick Paul up. And we

722
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 4: know Gary didn't say that because Gary recorded their conversation.

723
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 4: But spoiler alert, the magistrate doesn't agree and finds him guilty,

724
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 4: accusing Gary of pursuing Paul at all costs, accusing Gary

725
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 4: of lying on the witness stand, saying Gary's investigation was

726
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 4: above and beyond legality. Honestly, it's pretty full on criticism

727
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 4: and meant absolutely no one in the police or in

728
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 4: the court system wants anything to do with Gary after

729
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 4: I'm not challenging the magistrate's decision, but there are a

730
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 4: few interesting things I noticed sitting in court watching Gary

731
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 4: Jubilin on trial. Firstly, the police don't always let these

732
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 4: things play out so publicly. Since then, there have been

733
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 4: other police officers charged with various offenses, and the force

734
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 4: doesn't always issue a press release, let alone brief the

735
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,240
Speaker 4: media off the record.

736
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 7: Tonight nine News can reveal details involving a high ranking

737
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 7: member of the New South Wales Police Force facing criminal charges.

738
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 4: This was last year and the high ranking member of

739
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 4: the police force allegedly downed about twenty drinks at a

740
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 4: work party then got in his car to drive home.

741
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 7: I'm joined by our chief court reporter, Tiffany Genders. Tiff

742
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 7: what can you tell us?

743
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 16: Pete, a senior member of the state's police executive has

744
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 16: been charged with high drink driving six months after allegedly

745
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 16: crashing and later abandoning his vehicle.

746
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 4: This CoP's name will not become public. Instead, it will

747
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 4: remain suppressed for forty years after the court agreed to

748
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 4: what was an extraordinary request from the police force protecting

749
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: his identity and connection to others in the top ranks.

750
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 16: Ordinarily, when officers are charged, immediate releases issued, but that

751
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 16: didn't happen in this case. We've also put questions to

752
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 16: the Commissioner and Police Minister about who within the senior

753
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 16: ranks had knowledge of the case and whether it was

754
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 16: treated differently from others.

755
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 4: Something else I thought was interesting about Gary's trial was

756
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 4: how the allegiances against him were made by another officer

757
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 4: who he'd fallen out with over the William Tiole investigation,

758
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 4: called Craig Lambert. The two men even squared up against

759
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 4: each other in the offices of the homicide squad and

760
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:18,720
Speaker 4: had to be separated physically in court. At Gary's trial,

761
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 4: the police said that Craig was unwell and could not

762
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: give evidence, but in a separate Industrial Relations Commission hearing,

763
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 4: Craig said that he let police know he was available

764
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 4: to give evidence in Gary's trial if required, and Craig's

765
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:41,320
Speaker 4: account of one of those recorded conversations was completely different

766
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 4: to the version heard at Gary's trial, where one detective

767
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 4: said on oath that Gary made him record it, but Craig,

768
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 4: who was also in the room at that time, said

769
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: this didn't happen. Only by the time that this version

770
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: of events became public at the Industrial Relations Commission, Gary

771
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 4: had been convicted, meaning his downfall from celebrated detective to

772
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 4: criminal was complete. Putting Gary on trial at this time

773
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 4: meant risking the entire William Tyroll investigation. It's not me

774
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 4: saying that it's the police in their application during the

775
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 4: trial for another suppression order on the evidence, arguing it

776
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 4: might quote lead to potential suspects destroying inculpatory evidence or

777
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 4: manufacturing exculpatory evidence, which could jeopardize the investigation. The police

778
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 4: lawyer stood up in court and admitted it would have

779
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 4: been preferable to delay the trial, but that didn't happen

780
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, and the trial happened. The final interesting

781
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,240
Speaker 4: thing took place on the last day of that court

782
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 4: hearing when William's foster mother was called to give evidence

783
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,880
Speaker 4: in Gary's defense, and she doesn't hold back.

784
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 17: The biases and the political agendas around William's matter are

785
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 17: just disgraceful.

786
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 4: This is William's foster mother not speaking at Gary's trial,

787
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 4: but in an interview with the journalist Leah Harris, do.

788
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 17: You have faith in the current police force to find

789
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 17: out what happened to William?

790
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 10: No?

791
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 13: No, No.

792
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 4: William's foster mother says much the same thing on the

793
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 4: witness stand in Gary's trial. Her big fear is that

794
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 4: the case will be sent to unsolved homicide with everything

795
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 4: we've heard in this series about that team and backlogs

796
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 4: and missing evidence and cases going unopened.

797
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 17: Because this is what's going to happen. It will go

798
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 17: to inquest and the colin will say, police, you've done

799
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 17: a great job, thank you very much, and deliver an

800
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 17: open finding. Police will go great, we did a really

801
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 17: good job.

802
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 13: Let's push that over onto unsolved and it's going to

803
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 13: sit there and people are going.

804
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 3: To forget about it.

805
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 17: We can't let people forget William.

806
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 4: At Gary's trial, William's foster mother tells a story about

807
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 4: meeting the new homicide squad commander Scott Cook. Nina. That's

808
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 4: the transcript of her evidence. Can you read it.

809
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 3: We said hello, exchanged pleasantries. I said to him, I'm

810
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: surprised we're actually meeting because given the conversations we had

811
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,000
Speaker 3: over the phone. I did not expect to meet mister

812
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 3: Cook at all. After the pleasantries, mister Cook said to me,

813
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 3: you are not the only families of victims of crime.

814
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 3: I stopped and looked at him and I thought, no,

815
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 3: but you are at the inquest of one of those victims.

816
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: He then proceeded to say, William is not our only case.

817
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 3: I then said to him, William is three years old.

818
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: He was taken from his grandmother's house.

819
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 4: It was a.

820
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 3: Street where there's properly twenty houses on it. We were

821
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 3: sitting just around the corner, and he's a child in care.

822
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 3: I don't think you've got any other cases that describes that,

823
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 3: and I don't think you can just give up on him.

824
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 4: She's asked in court if Scott Cook replied to.

825
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,919
Speaker 3: This, and she says no, she says. I then asked him,

826
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: so are you planning on taking William's case to cold cases?

827
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 3: And he said yes, it's going to unsolved.

828
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 17: Which he believes it will in six months time. They'll

829
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 17: probably pull it out again and someone will have a

830
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 17: look at it, and you know they look at it. Yeah, well,

831
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 17: you know, nothing news come through.

832
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 10: We'll put it back over there in that.

833
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 3: Box and I'm thinking, I can't believe you're saying this

834
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,479
Speaker 3: to us here at the inquest for this little boy.

835
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 3: You're saying this to his parents, and.

836
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 4: That's kind of what's happened. The investigation into William's disappearance

837
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 4: is not officially an unsolved homicide, but the new lead detective,

838
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 4: David Laidlaw, works for the unsolved Homicide team as to

839
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 4: others in the strikeforce currently on it. At Gary's trial,

840
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 4: William's fostermother also says she was told there had been

841
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 4: a handover of information from Gary Jubilin to David Laidlaw, that.

842
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 3: Whole knowledge transfer. I was really really worried about it,

843
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,280
Speaker 3: and I said specifically to Scott Cook, who's doing the handover.

844
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 3: He told me Gary Jubilin was doing a handover with

845
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: David Laidlaw. After those conversations, David Laidlaw said to me,

846
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: there is no handover. I'm not allowed to talk to Gary.

847
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 18: So I'm really confused because I'm told that Gary and

848
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 18: David Laidlaw meet regularly and have been meeting to do

849
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,959
Speaker 18: a handover. And then on the other hand, I get

850
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 18: told very clearly that Gary is not allowed to speak

851
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 18: with anybody about.

852
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:54,760
Speaker 3: This matter, and she says, I'm angry.

853
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 4: She was, she was crying and shaking in the witness box,

854
00:49:58,920 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: and I'm.

855
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 17: Really angry because police are playing with William. Doesn't matter

856
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 17: what we think, doesn't matter what impact it has to us,

857
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 17: it matters.

858
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 4: To William, saying this in Gary's trial is front page news.

859
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 4: William Tyrrel's foster mum makes stunning claim about senior officer

860
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 4: and it's personal. That was February twenty twenty. A month later,

861
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 4: in March, I spoke to William's foster mother, who said

862
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 4: she'd been told the police had dropped the Paul Savage

863
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,120
Speaker 4: line of inquiry and the police Commissioner, Mick Fuller was

864
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 4: still not responding to their emails or phone calls. In July,

865
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 4: a detective Andrew Lonegan had worked on the strikeforce before,

866
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 4: was brought back and asked to review the investigation. Andrew

867
00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 4: Lonegan later said in court that he was aware of

868
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 4: the foster mother's criticism, and I've seen an email sent

869
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 4: by one of the detectives saying they identified William's foster

870
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 4: mother as a significant person of interest. And that happened

871
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 4: a month later in August and the same August, the

872
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 4: strike force arranged to meet William's foster mother at the

873
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 4: crossroads outside Kendall, where they'll later suggest that she disposed

874
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 4: of William's body. But that also means the police are

875
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 4: investigating yet another person of interest while the inquest is

876
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 4: still going. Because the inquest comes back in October for

877
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 4: what it says will definitely be its final hearings.

878
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 19: William's foster parents also spark about their frustrations and the

879
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 19: lack of progress.

880
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 3: Today.

881
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 19: We are at the same point we were six years ago.

882
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 19: Life will never be the same, William's biological family told

883
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 19: the court.

884
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 4: Only it's not the final hearings, and the coroner doesn't

885
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 4: hand down her findings as she promises, because within weeks

886
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 4: the police are installing covert surveillance inside the foster parents' home,

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Speaker 4: and a year later, the new South Wales Police Commissioner

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00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 4: will be giving this radio interview.

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Speaker 8: You know, my understanding is from the investigators used that

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00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 8: there is certainly one person in particular that we are

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00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 8: looking closely at.

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00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 12: How confident are you about the suspect that your detectives

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00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 12: have in mind.

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00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 8: Look, I'll say this, Ben, I'm confident that the team

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00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 8: who has the investigation at the moment, I'm confident they

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00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 8: can solve it. I truly believe that.

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00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 4: We'll get into that in detail next time on Witness

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00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 4: William Tyron. A lot of different people have been involved

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Speaker 4: in making this series. Among them, the executive producer is

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00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 4: Nina Young. The sound design was by Tiffany Dimack. The

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00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 4: producers have been Emily Pigeon, Nicholas Adams, Jazzber, Phoebe Zakowski

902
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,360
Speaker 4: Wallace and Tabby Wilson. Research by Adan Patrick, original music

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00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 4: by Rory O'Connor. Voice acting on this episode from JK. Cagatay.

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Speaker 4: Our lawyer is Stephen Coombs. The editor at news dot

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Speaker 4: com dot Au is Kerry Warren. I'm Dan Box