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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: On Friday, the thirteenth of July twenty twelve, thirty seven

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Speaker 2: year old mother of three Sandra and Jordan, disappeared from

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Speaker 2: a property in Cabulcha fifty k's north of Brisbane, Queensland.

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Speaker 2: She was last seen at the property around five point

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Speaker 2: thirty pm. Sandra In's jacket was found hanging on a

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Speaker 2: gate at the end of the driveway. Earlier that day,

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Speaker 2: she had purchased a new mobile phone after accidentally damaging

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Speaker 2: her own. She was relying on friends to get around

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Speaker 2: as a car was in the workshop at the time.

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Speaker 2: Fourteen years later, Sandrine has never been heard of or

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Speaker 2: seen again. Today marks four nine hundred and forty six

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Speaker 2: days since she disappeared. In this episode of The Missing Matter,

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Speaker 2: sal is joined by Sandrine's youngest daughter, Nikita.

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Speaker 3: Well, welcome everybody back to twenty twenty six. The Missing

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Speaker 3: Matter podcast continues. It's been a nice break over the

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Speaker 3: Christmas period, but I have been pretty busy working out

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Speaker 3: who will be my next guests coming into this space

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Speaker 3: and what stories I want to share with you all

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Speaker 3: to help bring awareness and knowledge about what's going on

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Speaker 3: in other people's lives who are living in the Missing space,

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Speaker 3: so let's get started. On Friday, the sevenh of July

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Speaker 3: twenty twelve, thirty seven year old loving mother of three

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Speaker 3: Sandrine Jordan disappeared from a friend, John O's property, which

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Speaker 3: was located on Thomlinson Road in Cabulcha, situated approximately fifty

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Speaker 3: kilometers north of Brisbane in Queensland. Tomlinson Road is a

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Speaker 3: dead end street. It has a creek running through the back,

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Speaker 3: and reports suggest that Sandrine was last seen by JOHNO

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Speaker 3: at this property around five point thirty pm when he returned.

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Speaker 3: Her jacket was left hanging on the gate at the

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Speaker 3: end of the driveway. Earlier that day, her mum had

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Speaker 3: taken her to the local IgA where she purchased a

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Speaker 3: new mobile phone after accidentally dropping hers in the toilet.

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Speaker 3: Before dropping her to her friend's rob Sandrine was relying

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Speaker 3: on others to get around at this time, as her

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Speaker 3: car was in the workshop being fixed. It's been fourteen

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Speaker 3: years and Sandrine has still not been seen nor heard from.

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Speaker 3: Since today, Mark's four nine hundred and forty six days.

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Speaker 3: Sandrine's been missing and her family are desperate to locate

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Speaker 3: her and find out what has happened. To help bring

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Speaker 3: more awareness about Sandrine's disappearance. I am joined today by

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Speaker 3: Sandrine's youngest daughter. Welcome to the Missing Matter podcast.

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Speaker 1: Nikita.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you Sally for having me.

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Speaker 3: You're very welcome. I just said to you when you

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Speaker 3: popped on the screen how much you.

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Speaker 1: Look like your mom.

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Speaker 3: I just just got such a beautiful face. So it's

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Speaker 3: very nice to meet you in semi person where sort

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Speaker 3: of you're in wa and I'm in Brisbane. But Nikita's

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Speaker 3: jumping on in her lunch break to have a chat

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Speaker 3: with me and have a chat about what's been happening

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Speaker 3: in her space. So, Nikita, you're only twelve at the

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Speaker 3: time when your mum went missing, and you mum and

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Speaker 3: dad were separated, but you shared time living with them both.

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Speaker 3: You were only six when they separated. Can you please

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Speaker 3: share with us how life was for you and your

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Speaker 3: brother and sister prior to Friday the thirteenth in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, we were obviously living between two parents

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Speaker 4: with its difficulties, but besides that, we were just I

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Speaker 4: guess normal kids growing up with separated parents, going in

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Speaker 4: between Cartha where my dad lived in Brisbane. We were

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Speaker 4: constantly moving in between all of them. So all of

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Speaker 4: us were not really situated in one place at one

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Speaker 4: time for a long time. So that was probably the

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Speaker 4: difficult part of growing up in a sense within without

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Speaker 4: my siblings at times, so we all got different versions

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Speaker 4: of you know, mum and dad and situations that were

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Speaker 4: happening at the time. But overall it was good. It

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Speaker 4: was good. They managed it quite well. If we weren't

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Speaker 4: with Mum would be skyping her all the time, she'd

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Speaker 4: be calling all the time, so she was still present,

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Speaker 4: so his dad even when we went with them, So

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Speaker 4: I would say life before was pretty good. It was

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Speaker 4: as normal as separated parents with children can probably get.

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Speaker 3: And obviously it was Friday the thirteenth too, and as

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Speaker 3: I was doing all my research and putting this together,

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Speaker 3: I was like, that's it's just kind of a wild

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Speaker 3: day in itself. Really, what do you remember about that day?

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Speaker 4: It was a normal day. I actually like the spooky

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Speaker 4: side of you know, Friday thirteenth and the movies and

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Speaker 4: stuff like that. So I was hanging out with my

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Speaker 4: friend all day who was into the same interest as me,

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Speaker 4: and we decided she has an enclosed area at the

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Speaker 4: front of her house, so we just decided that day

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Speaker 4: that we were going to camp out the front, watch videos,

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Speaker 4: watch movies, So that's kind of what we done. We

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Speaker 4: were just planning the day, So it was actually a

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Speaker 4: normal day for me prior to what happened, and it

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Speaker 4: wasn't towards, obviously the end of the night when we

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Speaker 4: found out.

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Speaker 1: How did you find out that your mum had gone missing?

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Speaker 4: I was scrolling on Facebook, which is very unfortunate that

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Speaker 4: I found out, especially at that age, But I was

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Speaker 4: scrolling on Facebook and then I just came across a

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Speaker 4: missing person poster on Facebook and it was mum's face,

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Speaker 4: and my immediate reaction was to just go silent. And

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Speaker 4: I was very confused at versus whether what I was

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Speaker 4: reading was true because I had not heard anything from

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Speaker 4: her family, which was the unfortunate part, which they are

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Speaker 4: obviously still very apologetic to this day about. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: that was pretty much what my experience was finding out.

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Speaker 3: So you're at your friend's place, having a camp out

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Speaker 3: for Friday the thirteenth, and you're scrolling on Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Can you just.

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Speaker 3: Come across a picture of your mum? And obviously your

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Speaker 3: mum's got an unusual name. Sandreen's not a really common name,

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Speaker 3: so obviously, when that pops up, I imagine that would

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Speaker 3: have been quite confronting and also quite confusing for you,

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Speaker 3: being that you hadn't been told officially by anybody that

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Speaker 3: she had disappeared at that point. Your mum's brother, I read,

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Speaker 3: was the one who reported her as missing to Queensland

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Speaker 3: Police on Tuesday, the seventeenth of July. Can you tell

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Speaker 3: us what you know about what was happening in those

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Speaker 3: four days leading up to this moment.

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Speaker 4: The four days leading up to mum's disappearance, she did

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Speaker 4: come across quite frantic. She was talking to my uncle,

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Speaker 4: checking and honest children, wanting to make sure that we

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Speaker 4: were safe and with family. At the time, she had

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Speaker 4: been talking with friends and family about her feeling as

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Speaker 4: if she was being followed. She wouldn't say by who

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Speaker 4: because she didn't want to put anyone at risk. That's

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Speaker 4: what she kept saying to my Auntie Christine. She actually

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Speaker 4: spoke to Annie Christine shortly before she went missing and

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Speaker 4: said that she had some issues. She sent the email

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Speaker 4: to the wrong person. My Auntie wanted to catch up

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Speaker 4: to have a coffee. Mum said, obviously then that would

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Speaker 4: should elaborate then, but then that didn't come, but the

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Speaker 4: four days leading up to it seemed quite frantic. However,

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Speaker 4: things were still in a sense running like normal. There

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Speaker 4: was nothing massive out of the blue. Everyone does talk

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Speaker 4: about mental health, which has been a massive part of

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Speaker 4: mum's whole entire case in shaping you know where it

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Speaker 4: is today, is that she struggled with her mental health

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Speaker 4: and whatnot. So there obviously are elements where that is true,

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Speaker 4: where she was explaining that she was upset about these

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Speaker 4: things and the family was really concerned that obviously. Then

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Speaker 4: later I was passed on to the police, which they

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Speaker 4: didn't have or share the same concerns. But everything besides

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Speaker 4: that was operating as it normally would.

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Speaker 3: Being Nikita that you were twelve and you're now twenty six.

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Speaker 3: I know that your family have been so amazing in

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Speaker 3: trying to put together the pieces of this puzzle, and

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Speaker 3: I've obviously they are extremely supportive of you, as Sandrine's

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Speaker 3: youngest daughter, trying to do your best to actually find

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Speaker 3: out and remember what's happened, because I'm sure that they

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Speaker 3: were probly protecting you a lot from information when you

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Speaker 3: were so little as well. But what do you remember

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Speaker 3: about those few days leading up to your mum's disappearance, she.

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Speaker 4: Was saying with my grandma her mum my memos we

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Speaker 4: call her at the time in Bribee Island. The day

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Speaker 4: before she went missing, she received a phone call my grandmother,

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Speaker 4: her mum at the time, said that she couldn't figure

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Speaker 4: out who she was on the phone to, but then

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Speaker 4: her phone failed down the toilet, so well, unsure if

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Speaker 4: that was deliberate or not. I'm more leaning towards maybe

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Speaker 4: it was deliberate and she didn't want anyone to track her.

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Speaker 4: Then they followed on the next day, got the new phone,

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Speaker 4: took money out from the bank so that she could

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Speaker 4: fix her car because she was having issues to the car.

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Speaker 4: She felt like someone was tampering with it. And then

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Speaker 4: we ended up proving that because after she went missing,

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Speaker 4: we got the vehicle back and there were signs of tampering,

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Speaker 4: so that was proven. Yeah, So she was just frantic.

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Speaker 4: She was still speaking and communicating with her family as normal,

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Speaker 4: which was confusing. She was still doing things as if

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Speaker 4: you know, more towards her it being to do with

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Speaker 4: foul play more so than her going off to commit suicide.

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Speaker 3: So I've read that your mum's brother, Philip, was the

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Speaker 3: one who reported her missing to Queensland Police on Tuesday

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Speaker 3: the seventeenth of July.

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Speaker 1: Do you know or if family sort of communicated with.

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Speaker 3: You what was happening between the day that she was

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Speaker 3: last see, which was Friday the thirteenth, and the Tuesday,

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Speaker 3: the seventeenth of July.

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Speaker 4: So there was lots of reaching out to her friends,

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Speaker 4: trying to call speak around, ask questions. We were all

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Speaker 4: very confused as to why she would go without saying anything.

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Speaker 4: But your immediate reaction, which a lot of people actually

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Speaker 4: question with missing person cases, is that you immediately go, oh,

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Speaker 4: this is completely out of the blue, like what happened,

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Speaker 4: But your body and your brain choose not to react

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Speaker 4: that way. You don't want to go straight to oh,

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Speaker 4: this could be foul, place, someone could be involved. You

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Speaker 4: will go to, Okay, well, let's maybe she's left her

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Speaker 4: phone somewhere, maybe she's unreachable, or maybe she's gone out camping.

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Speaker 4: There'll be sort of that side that you'll lean into first,

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Speaker 4: especially because she wasn't living with any of us children

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Speaker 4: at the time, so that would be a different case

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Speaker 4: if she was, you know, if any of the kids

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Speaker 4: were under her care, but at the time she's a

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Speaker 4: grown adult living by herself in Queensland, so they're contacting friends, family,

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Speaker 4: reaching out. I believe they also posted Facebook posts as well.

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Speaker 3: And to be fair too, like from the information that

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Speaker 3: I've heard and read about, is that your mum was

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Speaker 3: with her mum, and then she was staying in a

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Speaker 3: friend's house, and then she was staying with another friend.

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Speaker 3: I guess that makes sense to me too, that you know,

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Speaker 3: she wasn't in one set place and so if she's

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Speaker 3: gone off the grid, there might have been a reason

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Speaker 3: for that. She might have lost her phone, she might

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Speaker 3: have just been living with a friend and you know,

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Speaker 3: uncontactable for a while, because some of the places she

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Speaker 3: was saying as well were sort of sometimes maybe out

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Speaker 3: of range or things like that.

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Speaker 1: So I guess that is very fair. What is not fair,

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Speaker 1: in my.

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Speaker 3: Personal opinion, is that it took the police another four

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Speaker 3: days before they actually started to broadcast publicly that your

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Speaker 3: mum had disappeared. They didn't do that until the twenty

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Speaker 3: first of July, so now eight days since she was

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Speaker 3: last seen. It's it's now been fourteen years and as

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Speaker 3: I've said, you're twenty six looking back, what impact do

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Speaker 3: you think this delay had in helping to find your mum?

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Speaker 4: An incredible impact. As you know, a lot of crime

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Speaker 4: and missing person cases, the act, especially from police needs

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Speaker 4: to happen within a certain period of time before you know,

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Speaker 4: any evidence can be tampered with anything like that that

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Speaker 4: can ruin the case or hinder our abilities to end

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Speaker 4: up finding what happened. So them delaying it, it impacted

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Speaker 4: our mental health dramatically because we felt as if she

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Speaker 4: wasn't being looked at like she was a normal human

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Speaker 4: being and a mother, which is our big thing is

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Speaker 4: that she's a mother. Mothers don't do this, or at

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Speaker 4: least it's not very common that they will. Mothers love

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Speaker 4: for their child is so so strong, and she loved

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Speaker 4: us tremendously, like anyone could say it. So the delay

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Speaker 4: that it had significantly impacted the result of how the

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Speaker 4: case is gone. And I do believe that if they

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Speaker 4: did look at it in a different light and not

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Speaker 4: be so tunnel vision towards, you know, being about her

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Speaker 4: mental health, I think that this potentially would have changed drastically.

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Speaker 3: I agree, and not making assumptions, which seems to me

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Speaker 3: that there's still a lot of cases even today, where

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Speaker 3: assumptions are being made.

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Speaker 1: And I'm really hoping that people.

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Speaker 3: Listening to these podcasts and listening to you guys and

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Speaker 3: to me as someone who has a missing person as well,

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Speaker 3: that you know what we're saying, and when we're saying

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Speaker 3: that there are concerns for our missing loved one, they

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Speaker 3: need to listen. They need to really change the narrative

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Speaker 3: on how they're actually dealing with these missing persons cases.

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Speaker 3: In January twenty twenty three, Graham Crowley dropped the first

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Speaker 3: episode of a fourteen part podcast series he did about

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Speaker 3: your Mum's disappearance. Graham, I personally thinked an awesome job

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Speaker 3: to help bring awareness to your mum's story. In fact,

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Speaker 3: that was the first time I'd actually learned in depth

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Speaker 3: about your mum's case. I will encourage all listeners to

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Speaker 3: jump on and take a listen to Bring Home Sandrine,

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Speaker 3: and we'll pop a link in our show notes so

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Speaker 3: people can just simply pop on there, because there is

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Speaker 3: a deep dive and a lot of investigation that's gone

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Speaker 3: into that podcast. In this podcast, Graham spoke to yourself

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Speaker 3: actually and to your Auntie Christine, Sandrine's sister and Christine

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Speaker 3: speaks about the last time she spoke to Sandrine, your

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Speaker 3: mum three days before she disappeared. Do you remember what

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Speaker 3: your mum told her in that phone call?

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Speaker 4: Yes, So Christine had called my grandmother that day to

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Speaker 4: speak about a private family drama that was happening, and

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Speaker 4: my mum ended up jumping on the phone and she

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Speaker 4: was explaining about how she's concerned. She feels like people

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Speaker 4: are after her, she sent the wrong email out to

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Speaker 4: the wrong person, and she just kept saying, I made

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Speaker 4: a mistake, I made a mistake. She was very frantic

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Speaker 4: on the phone, and my auntie Christine was trying to

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Speaker 4: understand that's what's going on. What are you saying? How

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Speaker 4: can we get to the bottom of this? Should we

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Speaker 4: catch up for coffee? Mum was happy to catch up

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Speaker 4: for coffee and then that plan obviously never happened because

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Speaker 4: she went missing. But Mum did bring up elements of

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Speaker 4: her being afraid that she had sent the wrong email

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Speaker 4: to someone. Yeah, she was concerned for her own wellbeing.

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Speaker 4: Christine offered as well for Mum to come and stay

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Speaker 4: with her at the time, but Mum refused based on

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Speaker 4: she didn't want to bring any trouble into Christine's life,

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Speaker 4: So that was a big element as well as that.

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Speaker 4: I don't think mum wanted to involve anyone because she

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Speaker 4: never thought that all clearly the people maybe that were

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Speaker 4: after her there could be dangerous people, So she was

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Speaker 4: not wanting to get her family involved for understandable for sure.

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Speaker 3: And do you know the email that she's talking about.

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Speaker 3: Do you know who your mum was referring to with

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Speaker 3: regards to the being in trouble comment.

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Speaker 4: Honestly, it's a guessing game at this point. We don't

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Speaker 4: have a definitive answer on who it might be. However,

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Speaker 4: we do have our assumptions based on her journaling who

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Speaker 4: she was speaking to at the time, witnesses that have

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Speaker 4: come forward. Yes, we believe it's this one person. Seemingly,

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Speaker 4: it weirdly feels as if everything's connected between all the

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Speaker 4: guys that are involved or anyone that's involved with this case.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, it's just a guessing game.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things I did want to talk

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Speaker 3: to you about today was, I know, going through in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three when the podcast was rolling out a

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Speaker 3: lot of chat about trying to get the Freedom of

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Speaker 3: Information documents, which they now call RTI. I think about

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Speaker 3: what was sitting behind the police file. Have you guys

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Speaker 3: now got access to that?

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Speaker 4: We do, but majority of them have been blacked out,

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Speaker 4: which was frustrating for us. A lot of statements, a

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Speaker 4: lot of information, pages and pages has been completely blacked out,

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Speaker 4: to the point the information that we have received is

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Speaker 4: very very minimal, which was frustrating because we did wait

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Speaker 4: a very very long time time to get this information.

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Speaker 3: I had a very similar thing happened to me too,

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Speaker 3: and I just stupidly said print when I went to

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Speaker 3: print off the documents, and I think I ended up

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Speaker 3: with about one hundred and eighty double sided pages that

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Speaker 3: were just solid black, so not only used a lot

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Speaker 3: of ink, but obviously there's a lot of information sitting

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Speaker 3: behind there. And when I finally got unredacted, they had

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Speaker 3: even redacted emails that I had written myself, so that

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Speaker 3: even blacked them out and rejected them from myself, which

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Speaker 3: I already had possession of. So it seems quite archaic.

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Speaker 3: And so pick and choose what they want to give

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Speaker 3: us and what we want to see. And obviously it's

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Speaker 3: really important that we know the details of what's happened

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Speaker 3: to our missing loved ones. So I'm sad about your

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Speaker 3: mum's case because I get a very similar vibe with

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Speaker 3: my mum as well. So my mum on the police

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Speaker 3: file when I went and reported her missing to police,

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Speaker 3: they actually wrote down that she was a three times

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Speaker 3: divorced woman in her fifties that was capable of this behavior.

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Speaker 3: They marked her as an occurrence only and didn't do

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Speaker 3: any investigation into her disappearance.

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Speaker 1: And that's nearly twenty nine.

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Speaker 3: Years ago this year, And that narrative stays once they

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Speaker 3: put that out there, that narrative sits with the case.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like when I've been doing all the

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Speaker 3: research into your mum, it's exactly.

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Speaker 1: The same thing.

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Speaker 3: They're constantly saying, Oh, she was man hungry, and she

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Speaker 3: was sleeping around, and she was doing all these things.

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Speaker 3: There are quite a few men whose names pop up

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Speaker 3: in your mum's case. And I'm going to say to people,

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Speaker 3: you can actually go and do a deep dive with

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Speaker 3: Graham's podcast. We're not going to talk about this too

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Speaker 3: much today because this is more about you and where.

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Speaker 1: The case is at and what's happening in your world.

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Speaker 3: But can we talk a little bit about the five

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Speaker 3: men whose names keep popping up in your mum's case,

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Speaker 3: and I'll just read them out. So there's Brad, John, Ian,

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Speaker 3: Rob and Michael Michael being your dad. What we know

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Speaker 3: is that your mum actually moved in with Ian. She

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Speaker 3: was having a romantic relationship with him after she moved

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Speaker 3: back from Port Macquarie in the mid North coast of

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Speaker 3: New South Wales. Do you know how long they were

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Speaker 3: living together and why their relationship broke down?

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Speaker 4: Yes, So they were living together for I would say

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Speaker 4: going on two years. Their relationship had always had its

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Speaker 4: highs and its flows. So on the twenty sixth of June,

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Speaker 4: marm and Aine went to Morton, Ireland and ultimately ended

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Speaker 4: up getting into an argument. This was the breaking point

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Speaker 4: for their relationship. Mum found her own way back to Ian's.

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Speaker 4: She didn't want to go alone. She always wanted to

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Speaker 4: be with someone due to her own safety. So she

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Speaker 4: also had her fears about Ian, so did we as kids.

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Speaker 4: I never felt that comfortable around Ian. Mum never wanted

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Speaker 4: to go there by herself, so she ended up going

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Speaker 4: there with friends to gather her things and that was

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Speaker 4: the end of their relationship.

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Speaker 3: And let me just put a disclaimer around that no

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Speaker 3: one that we're talking about has been charged or any

364
00:20:02,241 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 3: claims that these people have done anything too. Sandry chatting

365
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 3: about what we know and what we have in front

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Speaker 3: of us and what's been already put out in the media.

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Speaker 1: So Rob, your.

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Speaker 3: Grandma dropped your mum to his house at approximately ten

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Speaker 3: eleven am and he dropped her to Johno's house which

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Speaker 3: was at Tomlinson Road. So that's the place where Sandrine

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Speaker 3: was last known to be your last scene.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about Rob.

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Speaker 4: So. Rob was our neighbor. We lived in Kabulcha and

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Speaker 4: a cul de Sac and our behind us was Robin Teresa.

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Speaker 4: They had a young girl. We ended up being friends

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Speaker 4: with her. We were actually quite close for our whole

377
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Speaker 4: time living in that area, and then Mum and Teresa's

378
00:20:48,921 --> 00:20:51,801
Speaker 4: relationship developed from there. Teresa and Mum were quite close.

379
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Speaker 4: Mum shared all of her own passwords everything with Teresa.

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Speaker 4: They were really close. Mum went to the house that

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Speaker 4: day to see Teresa. She wasn't there, so Rob. Ultimately

382
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Speaker 4: the plan was take her up to the Sunshine Coast,

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Speaker 4: but Mum changed her mind. I believe that there was

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Speaker 4: some other gentlemen there at the house didn't feel very

385
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Speaker 4: comfortable being there.

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Speaker 3: So Sandrine told your grandma that Rob was going to

387
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Speaker 3: drop her at a Buddhist retreat where Brad was going

388
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Speaker 3: to be, and that it was his birthday and she

389
00:21:23,001 --> 00:21:25,561
Speaker 3: wanted to go to there to fix the fact that

390
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,120
Speaker 3: she had upset him. Seemingly, it comes across it's about Brad,

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Speaker 3: his ex girlfriend and Sandrine maybe mentioning to her to

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Speaker 3: move to Sydney.

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Speaker 1: Now, on all accounts, what.

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Speaker 3: We've been told or what we've heard, is that Rob

395
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Speaker 3: dropped Sandrine to Johno's house, but asked Rob to drop

396
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Speaker 3: her around the corner. There's sort of a bit of

397
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Speaker 3: chat in Graham's podcast that potentially that was. So maybe

398
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Speaker 3: she was a little bit paranoid. She didn't want people

399
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Speaker 3: to know where she was. Not sure if you know

400
00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:57,001
Speaker 3: too much.

401
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:01,561
Speaker 4: About that, No, but there was definitely elements of her

402
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,321
Speaker 4: being paranoid. So I wouldn't doubt that that happened.

403
00:22:05,241 --> 00:22:07,241
Speaker 3: I just want to give her a big hug. Paul Darlin,

404
00:22:07,321 --> 00:22:09,721
Speaker 3: it just sounds very stressful going through all of this

405
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,881
Speaker 3: when you're riding it too, so I feel for you

406
00:22:12,921 --> 00:22:16,961
Speaker 3: guys as well as it's obviously your mum. Johno claimed

407
00:22:17,041 --> 00:22:20,801
Speaker 3: that Sandrine had positioned herself in a spot in his

408
00:22:20,961 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 3: lounge room so that she could see the driveway, and

409
00:22:23,481 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: she kept looking out. He said that he had left

410
00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 3: to take his boys to motocross, but it had rained

411
00:22:31,681 --> 00:22:33,761
Speaker 3: and when they got there it had been canceled, and

412
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Speaker 3: that he'd left Sandrine at the house and the last

413
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Speaker 3: time he saw her she was.

414
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Speaker 1: Standing near the gate.

415
00:22:39,721 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 3: It was raining, so there's talk about why would she

416
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:44,001
Speaker 3: be standing in the rain and things like that, But

417
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,481
Speaker 3: when he returned, her jacket was hanging on the gate,

418
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Speaker 3: and Sandrine is last scene.

419
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Speaker 1: At his house.

420
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Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about Johno because when you actually

421
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Speaker 3: listen to a lot of podcasts, like I know doing

422
00:22:56,721 --> 00:23:00,801
Speaker 3: my research, there is a lot and because Sandrine is

423
00:23:00,921 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: last scene at his house, there is a lot of

424
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Speaker 3: chat about John O. But what we do know, and

425
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Speaker 3: we sadly want to announce it, he has since passed away.

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Speaker 1: He died last year.

427
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Speaker 3: Do you want to tell everybody a little bit about

428
00:23:14,001 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 3: Johno and a bit of background to Johno.

429
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Speaker 4: I had known Johno since I was a little girl.

430
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Speaker 4: I would go over to his house with mum, would

431
00:23:22,761 --> 00:23:25,521
Speaker 4: play with his kids, He had a massive, massive property

432
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Speaker 4: of course, where Mom went missing. I spent a lot

433
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Speaker 4: of my childhood there, which is also what's really uncomfortable

434
00:23:30,801 --> 00:23:35,321
Speaker 4: and weird about this situation. But Johno was a kind man.

435
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Speaker 4: He I believe had some issues with drinking and whatnot,

436
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 4: which leads into some of the things you might hear

437
00:23:40,561 --> 00:23:44,001
Speaker 4: about on the media. But overall, he was very helpful

438
00:23:44,041 --> 00:23:47,881
Speaker 4: with Mum's case. He was constantly speaking to the police

439
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 4: when needed. He was speaking to the police nearly up

440
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,201
Speaker 4: until he passed away. He was speaking with my family.

441
00:23:53,761 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 4: He was one of Mum's closer friends, so he was

442
00:23:58,681 --> 00:24:01,801
Speaker 4: incredibly impacted, especially being the last person to see Mum.

443
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 4: He was incredibly impacted by her disappearance and her going

444
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: missing from his property. I think severely impacted him and

445
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,561
Speaker 4: led to his almost erratic behavior following on from her disappearance.

446
00:24:15,801 --> 00:24:19,281
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think when you listen to certain things.

447
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,321
Speaker 1: It could come across in a different way.

448
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,041
Speaker 3: But we wanted to bring that side to Johno to

449
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,481
Speaker 3: this podcast too, because I think when you do listen

450
00:24:28,521 --> 00:24:30,961
Speaker 3: and you listen from one to the other, it can

451
00:24:31,001 --> 00:24:34,761
Speaker 3: come across like maybe he knows more, maybe he knows something.

452
00:24:35,001 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 3: There was conversations with your auntie Christine, where she was

453
00:24:39,681 --> 00:24:42,241
Speaker 3: talking about He would text and call her at all

454
00:24:42,281 --> 00:24:44,561
Speaker 3: hours of the night when he was drunk, telling her

455
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,201
Speaker 3: that she needs to search the back of Tomlinson Road

456
00:24:47,281 --> 00:24:50,241
Speaker 3: because police hadn't searched there. But I think what we

457
00:24:50,321 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: know now is that it was probably more the tone

458
00:24:53,041 --> 00:24:56,721
Speaker 3: of him feeling sick to his stomach that she's gone

459
00:24:56,721 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 3: missing from his property. It's a big property, there's a

460
00:24:59,201 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 3: creek out the back, and the police haven't done their

461
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: job to search.

462
00:25:02,761 --> 00:25:04,921
Speaker 1: The area, and he felt that potential.

463
00:25:05,561 --> 00:25:07,561
Speaker 3: I guess from his point of view, he's left, he's

464
00:25:07,561 --> 00:25:09,561
Speaker 3: come back, she was there when he left, and then

465
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 3: she's gone when he comes back with his boys from motocross.

466
00:25:12,761 --> 00:25:16,321
Speaker 3: So I can see how that would cause, especially if

467
00:25:16,321 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 3: you do drink and you maybe have some you know,

468
00:25:19,761 --> 00:25:22,681
Speaker 3: obviously issues with that as well. Why late at night

469
00:25:22,721 --> 00:25:25,001
Speaker 3: you might be thinking about things and just being probably

470
00:25:25,041 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: a little paranoid himself about what's actually happened at his

471
00:25:28,001 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: home and wanting to find his friend.

472
00:25:31,001 --> 00:25:33,521
Speaker 4: Yeah, when Mum was at John's property, they were all

473
00:25:33,561 --> 00:25:35,761
Speaker 4: they all had plans to go down to motocross together.

474
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,120
Speaker 4: Mums did seem a little bit frantic looking out the window.

475
00:25:38,561 --> 00:25:41,400
Speaker 4: Her and John ended up getting into a slight disagreement

476
00:25:41,521 --> 00:25:44,681
Speaker 4: just over her laptop. And then Mum that was her

477
00:25:44,721 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 4: reasoning for going out the front, is that she didn't

478
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,561
Speaker 4: want to have a cigarette near the house because the

479
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,801
Speaker 4: kids were there. She wanted to go down further. So

480
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,121
Speaker 4: that's why she was ultimately at the front of the property.

481
00:25:54,481 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 4: So her reasoning as to why she's being there, it

482
00:25:57,281 --> 00:25:59,881
Speaker 4: almost seems as if you know, one minute she was there,

483
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,041
Speaker 4: in the next minute she was gone, which is very true.

484
00:26:02,201 --> 00:26:05,721
Speaker 4: But there was background to why she was out the

485
00:26:05,721 --> 00:26:08,841
Speaker 4: front and why she was standing in the rain, and.

486
00:26:08,801 --> 00:26:11,441
Speaker 3: It's important that we get clarity on those things for

487
00:26:11,521 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 3: your story. I find that when so many people start

488
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:17,761
Speaker 3: to talk about a story in the media, you know,

489
00:26:17,801 --> 00:26:20,881
Speaker 3: it's like Chinese whispers sometimes where things get twisted and

490
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,761
Speaker 3: just a few added words here and there can really

491
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 3: define a point of difference in a story and can

492
00:26:27,521 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: and turn a story on a dime as to which

493
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,041
Speaker 3: direction people are going to go down, as to what

494
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 3: they believe and what they think and know to be

495
00:26:34,481 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: the truth. Like my mum's case, there are a lot

496
00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,361
Speaker 3: of rabbit holes to Sandrine's disappearance.

497
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,921
Speaker 1: So for those of you who wanting.

498
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: To know more, I encourage you to jump on and

499
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 3: listen to Graham's podcast Bring Home Sandrine. On the second

500
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:52,161
Speaker 3: of June twenty sixteen, a Queensland coroner gave her findings,

501
00:26:52,961 --> 00:26:57,041
Speaker 3: ruling that your mum had died likely by suicide, using

502
00:26:57,041 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 3: a Form twenty B. A full inquest into her disappearance

503
00:27:00,481 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: has still not been conducted.

504
00:27:02,561 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: I want to talk a little bit about this. Is

505
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: that okay?

506
00:27:05,961 --> 00:27:06,241
Speaker 4: Sure?

507
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 3: So going through the findings, which I might add was

508
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:16,001
Speaker 3: only five pages long. We have a lot of people

509
00:27:16,001 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 3: listening overseas as well, so just for some clarity here,

510
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,481
Speaker 3: when you have an inquest, there's two different types of inquests.

511
00:27:22,481 --> 00:27:24,641
Speaker 3: They can have an inquest where it's just the coroner

512
00:27:25,241 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 3: and a legal team and they the coroners presented the

513
00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,561
Speaker 3: information generally by the police, and they make a ruling

514
00:27:31,761 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 3: based on the evidence that's presented to them. And then

515
00:27:35,001 --> 00:27:38,521
Speaker 3: there's an inquest like what I've had, where they bring

516
00:27:38,561 --> 00:27:41,961
Speaker 3: witnesses to the stand, people give evidence at the inquest

517
00:27:42,441 --> 00:27:46,360
Speaker 3: and for comparison to like my mum's inquest, I can't

518
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: even remember now how many days it went, maybe twenty days,

519
00:27:49,801 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: whereas your mum at this point has only had that

520
00:27:52,561 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 3: Form twenty B completed and a full inquest has not

521
00:27:56,281 --> 00:27:59,321
Speaker 3: been done. So it wasn't a case that these people

522
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: that are in your mum's world at the time of

523
00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:06,441
Speaker 3: her disappearance, no one has been brought before a coroner

524
00:28:06,521 --> 00:28:09,561
Speaker 3: to give their view of what's actually taken place or

525
00:28:09,561 --> 00:28:13,001
Speaker 3: what's happened and how maybe Sandrine was feeling at that time.

526
00:28:13,041 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: And that includes you guys, her family, her brothers and sisters,

527
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: and also her friends, which I feel is very very

528
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,041
Speaker 3: important because there are quite a lot of people in

529
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: the mix who knew about what Sandrine was feeling and

530
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,241
Speaker 3: how she was acting and what was happening at that time.

531
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: But point sixty two of these findings states the cause

532
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,761
Speaker 3: of death is unknown, that Sandrine likely died a short

533
00:28:37,801 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 3: time after her disappearance on July thirteen, twenty twelve, that

534
00:28:42,601 --> 00:28:45,561
Speaker 3: it is not known where she has died, and the

535
00:28:45,561 --> 00:28:50,281
Speaker 3: cause of death is still unknown. However, point sixty so

536
00:28:50,361 --> 00:28:54,001
Speaker 3: two points earlier of the findings, it states that there

537
00:28:54,081 --> 00:28:57,041
Speaker 3: is a possibility of risk of foul play.

538
00:28:58,601 --> 00:28:59,001
Speaker 1: Nikita.

539
00:28:59,081 --> 00:29:02,161
Speaker 3: This mention of foul play is not reflected in the

540
00:29:02,201 --> 00:29:06,241
Speaker 3: closing summary by the coroner all the time that words

541
00:29:06,321 --> 00:29:08,841
Speaker 3: matter and what you say can have a huge effect

542
00:29:09,321 --> 00:29:13,521
Speaker 3: and follow on, particularly in a missing person's case. What's

543
00:29:13,561 --> 00:29:15,281
Speaker 3: your family's opinion on this.

544
00:29:16,201 --> 00:29:19,841
Speaker 4: I would say there's anger and confusion behind this. All

545
00:29:19,961 --> 00:29:23,081
Speaker 4: that's the family's opinion really is that we don't agree

546
00:29:23,081 --> 00:29:25,761
Speaker 4: with it at all. We don't understand from our own

547
00:29:25,761 --> 00:29:29,081
Speaker 4: investigation that we've done, how the police can come up

548
00:29:29,121 --> 00:29:32,081
Speaker 4: with this finding and then also rule out foul play.

549
00:29:32,761 --> 00:29:36,001
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense based on all the evidence, all

550
00:29:36,041 --> 00:29:38,361
Speaker 4: of the stuff that has come forward, all the leads,

551
00:29:38,441 --> 00:29:40,521
Speaker 4: everything over the years. It does not make sense how

552
00:29:40,561 --> 00:29:43,361
Speaker 4: this is a conclusion. Even between the gap of twenty

553
00:29:43,361 --> 00:29:46,161
Speaker 4: twelve and twenty sixteen when the Corona report came out,

554
00:29:47,121 --> 00:29:50,441
Speaker 4: there is so much information there that leads to anything

555
00:29:50,561 --> 00:29:54,921
Speaker 4: but suicide. But that's confusing as well. We're all angry

556
00:29:54,961 --> 00:29:57,441
Speaker 4: about how they can It's just a big question mark,

557
00:29:57,601 --> 00:29:59,841
Speaker 4: just a big unknown, And then that's how they're leaving it.

558
00:30:00,001 --> 00:30:02,081
Speaker 4: But how do you know, how can you make an

559
00:30:02,081 --> 00:30:04,961
Speaker 4: assumption on anything or make a conclusion about a case

560
00:30:05,161 --> 00:30:05,841
Speaker 4: without a body?

561
00:30:07,801 --> 00:30:09,681
Speaker 3: And this is one of the things I wanted to

562
00:30:09,721 --> 00:30:12,401
Speaker 3: talk about, and I do just give a warning because

563
00:30:12,561 --> 00:30:16,281
Speaker 3: we are talking about suicide in this podcast, and you

564
00:30:16,321 --> 00:30:17,001
Speaker 3: know it's.

565
00:30:17,241 --> 00:30:18,721
Speaker 1: A topic that is very sensitive.

566
00:30:19,641 --> 00:30:22,201
Speaker 3: So I just want to preface too that your family,

567
00:30:22,441 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 3: on all accounts, believe that suicide should not be on

568
00:30:25,761 --> 00:30:27,561
Speaker 3: the table when it comes to your mum's case.

569
00:30:28,521 --> 00:30:34,361
Speaker 4: Yes, definitely, Mum was not the type of person to

570
00:30:34,921 --> 00:30:40,481
Speaker 4: walk away and put that trauma onto her children. She

571
00:30:40,561 --> 00:30:42,841
Speaker 4: is not. My mum has been through so much, especially

572
00:30:42,841 --> 00:30:47,041
Speaker 4: in her childhood. One thing that she knows would absolutely

573
00:30:47,201 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: ruin us is her committing suicide and not even leaving

574
00:30:50,481 --> 00:30:53,641
Speaker 4: a letter. She knows how much that would hurt us

575
00:30:53,641 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: and ruin us, and I know that she would not

576
00:30:56,641 --> 00:31:00,281
Speaker 4: ever do that to us. Everyone knows that as well

577
00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:03,521
Speaker 4: us kids. We were her life, We were her everything. Honestly,

578
00:31:03,561 --> 00:31:06,641
Speaker 4: the reasons she was living she was working towards getting

579
00:31:06,721 --> 00:31:09,001
Speaker 4: us back living with her. There are so many elements

580
00:31:09,041 --> 00:31:11,961
Speaker 4: pointing to her continuing on a life outside of her

581
00:31:12,001 --> 00:31:16,801
Speaker 4: being missing dates, applying for rentals, buying a new phone

582
00:31:16,801 --> 00:31:18,361
Speaker 4: that morning. Why would you do that if you had

583
00:31:18,361 --> 00:31:21,241
Speaker 4: all the plans of just walking off and committing suicide.

584
00:31:21,281 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: It doesn't make sense. So we as a family stand

585
00:31:24,481 --> 00:31:28,321
Speaker 4: strong in saying that we completely disagree with this. We

586
00:31:28,441 --> 00:31:30,121
Speaker 4: do not believe that it could ever be an option,

587
00:31:30,881 --> 00:31:33,161
Speaker 4: and if it was an option, we would love to

588
00:31:33,161 --> 00:31:33,921
Speaker 4: see the evidence.

589
00:31:35,521 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: So what I wanted to do because this comes up

590
00:31:37,521 --> 00:31:39,921
Speaker 3: a lot in especially a lot of cases that I'm

591
00:31:39,961 --> 00:31:44,641
Speaker 3: talking with the families, and suicide is often what we

592
00:31:44,761 --> 00:31:47,961
Speaker 3: hear is assumed in a missing person's case, especially when

593
00:31:48,041 --> 00:31:51,641
Speaker 3: mental health is in the mix, and I wanted to

594
00:31:51,641 --> 00:31:54,721
Speaker 3: do a little bit of a dive into the stats

595
00:31:54,761 --> 00:31:57,881
Speaker 3: around this. This is what it says is an overview

596
00:31:58,481 --> 00:32:01,561
Speaker 3: in Australia. Whilst the vast majority of people who die

597
00:32:01,601 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 3: by suicide are found quickly, usually within one to two days,

598
00:32:06,001 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: a distinct smaller group of suicides involved individuals who are

599
00:32:10,801 --> 00:32:15,361
Speaker 3: first reported missing, often resulting in a delayed discovery or

600
00:32:15,401 --> 00:32:18,801
Speaker 3: in some cases, the body is never located. Based on

601
00:32:18,881 --> 00:32:23,721
Speaker 3: studies from Queensland's Suicide Register and the National Coroner's Information

602
00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 3: System nineteen ninety four to two thousand and seven, the

603
00:32:27,281 --> 00:32:32,121
Speaker 3: key statistics regarding this often referred to as missing suicide cases,

604
00:32:32,681 --> 00:32:38,761
Speaker 3: and includes so suicides by person reported missing accounted for

605
00:32:38,881 --> 00:32:42,961
Speaker 3: approximately two point five percent of all suicide deaths in Queensland,

606
00:32:43,521 --> 00:32:48,561
Speaker 3: Australia the time to find. So a missing suicide group

607
00:32:49,001 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 3: had a mean duration of thirty three point nine days

608
00:32:53,241 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: between being last seen and being found, compared to just

609
00:32:57,321 --> 00:33:01,201
Speaker 3: one point two five days of other suicide cases.

610
00:33:02,721 --> 00:33:04,281
Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about that.

611
00:33:04,681 --> 00:33:07,481
Speaker 3: My brother committed suicide a couple of years after my

612
00:33:07,601 --> 00:33:13,321
Speaker 3: mum went missing, and it was just as this stat suggests,

613
00:33:13,401 --> 00:33:15,201
Speaker 3: it was within a couple of days.

614
00:33:14,961 --> 00:33:15,721
Speaker 1: We found him.

615
00:33:15,801 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: He didn't show up for work, he wasn't answering his phone.

616
00:33:19,321 --> 00:33:23,081
Speaker 3: He'd just separated from his partner. She'd moved out to

617
00:33:23,121 --> 00:33:26,001
Speaker 3: live with her mum for a couple of days, and

618
00:33:26,241 --> 00:33:28,561
Speaker 3: it was her who rang me and said, something's wrong.

619
00:33:28,641 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 3: He hasn't been at work, so therefore you start the

620
00:33:31,241 --> 00:33:35,681
Speaker 3: ball rolling. And it was identified that he was on

621
00:33:35,721 --> 00:33:41,321
Speaker 3: the premises, and she called emergency services and they located him.

622
00:33:41,761 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 3: Thirty three point nine days is the other stat for

623
00:33:45,041 --> 00:33:48,241
Speaker 3: a missing suicide. And the thing about suicide is if

624
00:33:48,281 --> 00:33:51,761
Speaker 3: you take your own life, you can't just walk off

625
00:33:51,801 --> 00:33:54,601
Speaker 3: and go and hide yourself unless you do that prior

626
00:33:54,641 --> 00:33:58,401
Speaker 3: to taking your life. And I know there's suggestions. You

627
00:33:58,441 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 3: know that, and this is not for your mum or

628
00:34:00,281 --> 00:34:02,841
Speaker 3: for my mum, but you know, people can jump off

629
00:34:02,881 --> 00:34:05,561
Speaker 3: a cliff and fall into the ocean and never be

630
00:34:05,641 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 3: seen again.

631
00:34:06,841 --> 00:34:07,641
Speaker 1: That does happen.

632
00:34:07,761 --> 00:34:10,361
Speaker 3: So we're not being suggestive that it doesn't happen, but

633
00:34:10,401 --> 00:34:13,161
Speaker 3: we're just saying that the statistics are very, very small

634
00:34:13,361 --> 00:34:15,241
Speaker 3: that someone would take their own life and.

635
00:34:15,201 --> 00:34:16,601
Speaker 1: Not be found.

636
00:34:17,121 --> 00:34:20,281
Speaker 3: And I think that's a really important part of this

637
00:34:20,561 --> 00:34:23,121
Speaker 3: journey in a missing person's case, that we can't make

638
00:34:23,161 --> 00:34:26,721
Speaker 3: an assumption of suicide without the facts. It's an assumption

639
00:34:26,761 --> 00:34:29,361
Speaker 3: that shouldn't even be on the table in my personal opinion.

640
00:34:30,201 --> 00:34:31,401
Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to add as well.

641
00:34:31,441 --> 00:34:35,241
Speaker 3: You told me that your family have not been taken seriously,

642
00:34:35,521 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: that you've been referred to as by the police as overbearing.

643
00:34:39,241 --> 00:34:41,241
Speaker 3: I wanted to share with you that I had similar

644
00:34:41,281 --> 00:34:44,081
Speaker 3: things happened to me as well, where ten years after

645
00:34:44,121 --> 00:34:46,201
Speaker 3: my mum had gone missing, or I'm in the face

646
00:34:46,281 --> 00:34:48,481
Speaker 3: of a lot of the big wigs I guess of

647
00:34:48,841 --> 00:34:52,881
Speaker 3: Missing Persons Unit and the National Missing Person's Coordination Center

648
00:34:52,921 --> 00:34:56,761
Speaker 3: which was AFP at the time when I received the

649
00:34:56,801 --> 00:35:00,361
Speaker 3: freedom of information documentation. There's actually an email in there

650
00:35:00,401 --> 00:35:02,201
Speaker 3: that was written by the head of the New South

651
00:35:02,201 --> 00:35:06,081
Speaker 3: Wales Missing Person's Unit and he say that it seems

652
00:35:06,121 --> 00:35:10,881
Speaker 3: that Sally myself is seeking a scapegoat for this situation,

653
00:35:11,001 --> 00:35:13,041
Speaker 3: and that he believed that my mum had been recently

654
00:35:13,081 --> 00:35:16,761
Speaker 3: located or sited spoken to as recently as a month ago,

655
00:35:17,321 --> 00:35:19,081
Speaker 3: and that never happened.

656
00:35:19,121 --> 00:35:21,201
Speaker 1: So these are problems when you're in.

657
00:35:21,121 --> 00:35:25,401
Speaker 3: This mix and you've got authorities putting these things into

658
00:35:25,721 --> 00:35:29,681
Speaker 3: the documentation, into the cops event for the next person

659
00:35:29,721 --> 00:35:32,361
Speaker 3: to read and make an assumption for and when a

660
00:35:32,401 --> 00:35:36,601
Speaker 3: coronary is being handed those documents from a police jurisdiction

661
00:35:36,641 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: who's looking after a case that is not a full

662
00:35:40,561 --> 00:35:43,081
Speaker 3: in quest. So we're not bringing witnesses, we're not bringing

663
00:35:43,161 --> 00:35:45,521
Speaker 3: family to paint the picture of what they knew to

664
00:35:45,601 --> 00:35:49,081
Speaker 3: be happening in Sandrine's life at that time. They're relying

665
00:35:49,121 --> 00:35:52,521
Speaker 3: on those documents and that's why it's so important to

666
00:35:52,601 --> 00:35:55,961
Speaker 3: get it right. I know your family are actually seeking

667
00:35:56,321 --> 00:35:58,641
Speaker 3: to have an in quest for your mum, and you've

668
00:35:58,681 --> 00:36:00,921
Speaker 3: mentioned to me that you have a petition. Do you

669
00:36:01,001 --> 00:36:03,561
Speaker 3: know how many signatures you've got on there at the moment,

670
00:36:04,281 --> 00:36:04,841
Speaker 3: Just over.

671
00:36:04,681 --> 00:36:09,401
Speaker 4: Five, which is really impressive, I believe amazing.

672
00:36:09,481 --> 00:36:10,721
Speaker 3: And what we're going to do is we're going to

673
00:36:10,721 --> 00:36:13,921
Speaker 3: put a link to that petition on this podcast as well,

674
00:36:13,961 --> 00:36:16,641
Speaker 3: and I'll put it on my socials too, So if

675
00:36:16,681 --> 00:36:20,561
Speaker 3: everyone can get behind this petition, I think you know

676
00:36:20,841 --> 00:36:23,761
Speaker 3: you guys, especially in my mum's space, know all too

677
00:36:23,801 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 3: well when I was trying to get Mum put onto

678
00:36:26,601 --> 00:36:29,281
Speaker 3: the missing Person's register because she wasn't even recognized as

679
00:36:29,321 --> 00:36:33,641
Speaker 3: being missing, we ended up having nearly thirty thousand signatures

680
00:36:33,721 --> 00:36:36,841
Speaker 3: on that petition, and miraculously, as soon as you do

681
00:36:36,921 --> 00:36:40,121
Speaker 3: something like this, low and Behold, my Mum's put on

682
00:36:40,161 --> 00:36:43,081
Speaker 3: the missing person's register and she's recognized as being missing.

683
00:36:43,481 --> 00:36:46,001
Speaker 3: I shouldn't take a petition, I believe to get to

684
00:36:46,001 --> 00:36:48,241
Speaker 3: that point, but sadly that's what we need to do.

685
00:36:48,321 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask everybody to.

686
00:36:50,401 --> 00:36:53,761
Speaker 3: Get behind Nikita and her family and sign that petition

687
00:36:54,401 --> 00:36:58,481
Speaker 3: because it is really really important. Generally speaking, we usually

688
00:36:58,521 --> 00:37:01,121
Speaker 3: like to get to that ten thousand signatures is sort

689
00:37:01,121 --> 00:37:04,121
Speaker 3: of like our goal, and that's when we start being

690
00:37:04,201 --> 00:37:07,481
Speaker 3: taken seriously when it comes to a petition, So keep

691
00:37:07,481 --> 00:37:09,521
Speaker 3: an eye out for that. And I'd like to hear

692
00:37:09,801 --> 00:37:12,961
Speaker 3: what you all feel and support for the family behind this,

693
00:37:13,401 --> 00:37:17,241
Speaker 3: because Sandrine, after fourteen years, I believe you guys all

694
00:37:17,441 --> 00:37:23,001
Speaker 3: deserve to know and have that information documented properly as well, because,

695
00:37:23,041 --> 00:37:25,681
Speaker 3: as we mentioned before, Johno's now passed away, he was

696
00:37:25,681 --> 00:37:28,041
Speaker 3: one of the last people to see Sandrine and he

697
00:37:28,081 --> 00:37:31,201
Speaker 3: missed that opportunity to sit out at it in quest

698
00:37:31,201 --> 00:37:33,281
Speaker 3: and actually be a witness into her story and what

699
00:37:33,401 --> 00:37:38,761
Speaker 3: happened to her on that fateful day. Since June twenty sixteen,

700
00:37:38,801 --> 00:37:42,281
Speaker 3: there have been reports of new and conflicting pieces of evidence,

701
00:37:42,321 --> 00:37:47,281
Speaker 3: including witness accounts of gunshots and unexplained letters that cast

702
00:37:47,321 --> 00:37:51,761
Speaker 3: doubt on the official narrative. Taz is another name that

703
00:37:51,881 --> 00:37:55,561
Speaker 3: was mentioned in the Bring Home Sandrin podcast, and Taz

704
00:37:55,641 --> 00:37:58,801
Speaker 3: is a lot like Joonie for me. In my mum's case,

705
00:37:59,001 --> 00:38:02,481
Speaker 3: her offering to help, and she actually found something significant,

706
00:38:02,481 --> 00:38:02,841
Speaker 3: didn't she.

707
00:38:04,041 --> 00:38:09,441
Speaker 4: Yeah, she found carpet that was rolled up that contained clothing,

708
00:38:09,641 --> 00:38:14,601
Speaker 4: so black pants like a mave colored top, bras, sunglasses,

709
00:38:15,321 --> 00:38:19,041
Speaker 4: a green hesseen bag, a shell. She found all this

710
00:38:19,121 --> 00:38:23,001
Speaker 4: that was wrapped up within carpet towards the back of

711
00:38:23,041 --> 00:38:26,401
Speaker 4: the property that was on Tomlinson Road, at the back

712
00:38:26,481 --> 00:38:30,521
Speaker 4: of the neighbour's home near Creek near Johno's old property.

713
00:38:30,921 --> 00:38:34,361
Speaker 3: I'm trying to sort of picture the backyard in my mind.

714
00:38:34,401 --> 00:38:36,601
Speaker 3: I sort of have a vision that it was sloping.

715
00:38:36,641 --> 00:38:38,881
Speaker 3: Do you remember what the backyard looks like running down

716
00:38:38,921 --> 00:38:39,441
Speaker 3: to the creek?

717
00:38:40,361 --> 00:38:44,161
Speaker 4: Not exactly, but the properties are massive, so there's not

718
00:38:44,201 --> 00:38:48,041
Speaker 4: really I guess fences a lot of that separating the

719
00:38:48,041 --> 00:38:52,041
Speaker 4: properties from each other. There is obviously separation, but the

720
00:38:52,081 --> 00:38:55,881
Speaker 4: property is all kind of connected by It's almost this

721
00:38:55,961 --> 00:38:58,241
Speaker 4: one area, I believe, which is the creek.

722
00:38:59,481 --> 00:39:02,801
Speaker 3: And I believe that there had been When the floods

723
00:39:02,801 --> 00:39:07,321
Speaker 3: happened in twenty eleven, property lost a lot of his plants,

724
00:39:07,361 --> 00:39:11,601
Speaker 3: and his neighbor who where they found the carpet, she

725
00:39:11,761 --> 00:39:15,121
Speaker 3: had mentioned that she'd seen Johnno walking around there prior

726
00:39:15,201 --> 00:39:17,281
Speaker 3: to when the floods were happening, because a lot of

727
00:39:17,281 --> 00:39:19,081
Speaker 3: his pop plants had sort of been washed away and

728
00:39:19,121 --> 00:39:21,201
Speaker 3: he was picking them up. So just paints a bit

729
00:39:21,241 --> 00:39:23,561
Speaker 3: of a picture as to what was there. I did

730
00:39:23,561 --> 00:39:26,281
Speaker 3: want to ask you about the shell. I think it

731
00:39:26,361 --> 00:39:30,361
Speaker 3: was maybe Nicole Morris was talking recently on another podcast

732
00:39:30,401 --> 00:39:32,361
Speaker 3: and mentioned that you had half the shell.

733
00:39:32,721 --> 00:39:37,081
Speaker 4: Is that right? Yes? I believe that the family thought

734
00:39:37,121 --> 00:39:39,481
Speaker 4: that the other half was with one of us children,

735
00:39:39,521 --> 00:39:43,041
Speaker 4: but we cannot seem to locate it. But or we

736
00:39:43,041 --> 00:39:45,281
Speaker 4: were adamant that there was a second side to this

737
00:39:45,401 --> 00:39:49,561
Speaker 4: that we had based on, you know, photos, things like that,

738
00:39:49,641 --> 00:39:52,561
Speaker 4: and Mum, it's so her to carry around some shells

739
00:39:52,601 --> 00:39:55,681
Speaker 4: in her bag. She is that type of woman. So

740
00:39:56,121 --> 00:39:58,361
Speaker 4: that was the big thing that was significant for us

741
00:39:58,441 --> 00:40:02,321
Speaker 4: in these findings is the shell. It really suck out

742
00:40:02,321 --> 00:40:05,041
Speaker 4: to us because it seemed personal. Along with the other

743
00:40:05,161 --> 00:40:07,841
Speaker 4: clothing that was found, it did seem as if it

744
00:40:07,881 --> 00:40:09,801
Speaker 4: was something that she would wear, all similar to what

745
00:40:09,841 --> 00:40:12,201
Speaker 4: she was wearing the day of her disappearance. So all

746
00:40:12,241 --> 00:40:15,841
Speaker 4: of these dots connected for us. But ultimately when we

747
00:40:15,881 --> 00:40:18,361
Speaker 4: received the DNA results back, they came back inconclusive.

748
00:40:19,361 --> 00:40:21,841
Speaker 3: And it's such a such a hard thing to think

749
00:40:21,881 --> 00:40:25,401
Speaker 3: about because the carpet was rolled up and there was

750
00:40:25,521 --> 00:40:28,841
Speaker 3: plastic inside it, and Taz and her team took a

751
00:40:28,841 --> 00:40:32,641
Speaker 3: cadaver dog down. She's like a private investigator and she

752
00:40:32,721 --> 00:40:35,321
Speaker 3: offered her services for free to the family and has

753
00:40:35,361 --> 00:40:36,801
Speaker 3: done huge.

754
00:40:36,481 --> 00:40:37,201
Speaker 1: Amount of work.

755
00:40:37,241 --> 00:40:39,001
Speaker 3: I think she's probably up to ten years now of

756
00:40:39,161 --> 00:40:44,681
Speaker 3: doing investigation to help on Sandrine's case, and to find

757
00:40:44,721 --> 00:40:47,401
Speaker 3: all those things at the back of a property would

758
00:40:47,401 --> 00:40:49,561
Speaker 3: have been very alarming.

759
00:40:49,681 --> 00:40:50,321
Speaker 1: I would say.

760
00:40:50,601 --> 00:40:53,521
Speaker 3: I know that there was report saying that Sandrine had

761
00:40:53,561 --> 00:40:55,681
Speaker 3: black pants on the day that she went missing. There

762
00:40:55,681 --> 00:40:58,721
Speaker 3: were black pants in the carpet, there was the green

763
00:40:58,761 --> 00:41:02,401
Speaker 3: heshim bag which your mum carried as well. But I

764
00:41:02,481 --> 00:41:05,761
Speaker 3: also had heard that she had left her Hession bag

765
00:41:05,881 --> 00:41:09,121
Speaker 3: and her phone in Johno's property like that was found

766
00:41:09,241 --> 00:41:13,241
Speaker 3: after she disappeared, And that sort of seems unusual too,

767
00:41:13,321 --> 00:41:16,601
Speaker 3: doesn't it That if you were going to just disappear yourself,

768
00:41:16,641 --> 00:41:17,881
Speaker 3: you would take your belongings with you.

769
00:41:17,881 --> 00:41:20,441
Speaker 1: You wouldn't leave them behind exactly.

770
00:41:20,881 --> 00:41:24,041
Speaker 4: And these are the things that are confusing about this

771
00:41:24,321 --> 00:41:29,121
Speaker 4: entire situation. There's so many question marks around this information

772
00:41:29,201 --> 00:41:31,561
Speaker 4: that comes out and why.

773
00:41:31,361 --> 00:41:32,081
Speaker 1: It's so important.

774
00:41:32,201 --> 00:41:34,841
Speaker 3: Nakita, I think that we do actually go to an

775
00:41:34,881 --> 00:41:38,961
Speaker 3: inquest and have a full investigation, because, like what happened

776
00:41:38,961 --> 00:41:41,521
Speaker 3: with my mum's case, it was with General Duty's Police,

777
00:41:41,561 --> 00:41:43,481
Speaker 3: and they kept telling me that they were too busy,

778
00:41:43,601 --> 00:41:46,401
Speaker 3: they had other jobs that took priority, and it wasn't

779
00:41:46,481 --> 00:41:50,681
Speaker 3: until we got an inquest confirmed that we had a

780
00:41:50,681 --> 00:41:54,001
Speaker 3: homicide team take over and my mum now sits with

781
00:41:54,121 --> 00:41:57,961
Speaker 3: unsolved homicide. But they then did their own investigation and

782
00:41:58,001 --> 00:42:00,201
Speaker 3: they were working with me and we found a lot

783
00:42:00,201 --> 00:42:03,281
Speaker 3: of information that we gave to them in dossiers and

784
00:42:03,321 --> 00:42:06,801
Speaker 3: things like that. So hence why I feel it's really

785
00:42:06,841 --> 00:42:09,801
Speaker 3: super important that we do get to an inquest for

786
00:42:09,841 --> 00:42:11,441
Speaker 3: your mum so that we can actually get to the

787
00:42:11,481 --> 00:42:13,921
Speaker 3: bottom of a lot of that information and put it

788
00:42:13,961 --> 00:42:17,321
Speaker 3: all together, so we can actually get the timelines correct,

789
00:42:17,441 --> 00:42:21,401
Speaker 3: get the information correct and detailed in an official document.

790
00:42:21,481 --> 00:42:24,041
Speaker 3: For you guys as well, how do you think that

791
00:42:24,521 --> 00:42:30,081
Speaker 3: information about the clothing the shell has shaped your understanding

792
00:42:30,121 --> 00:42:31,881
Speaker 3: about what might have happened to your mum.

793
00:42:33,281 --> 00:42:39,761
Speaker 4: We all are leaning towards this not being intentional, her

794
00:42:39,801 --> 00:42:43,721
Speaker 4: not intentionally walking away, because why are these clothes showing

795
00:42:43,801 --> 00:42:47,921
Speaker 4: up and why are these people doing very questionable things

796
00:42:47,921 --> 00:42:50,321
Speaker 4: prior to her going missing? Conversations that were had, so

797
00:42:50,721 --> 00:42:54,081
Speaker 4: all of these things, you know, leading up to mum

798
00:42:54,081 --> 00:42:58,881
Speaker 4: going missing, the clothing, everything, It just just reiterates that

799
00:42:59,961 --> 00:43:02,041
Speaker 4: this isn't just a walk off. And that's what this

800
00:43:02,201 --> 00:43:06,321
Speaker 4: whole thing is surrounded by us like it's family versus

801
00:43:07,201 --> 00:43:10,561
Speaker 4: the police, as a suicide, walk off versus foul play.

802
00:43:11,001 --> 00:43:13,321
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's things like this that make us question

803
00:43:13,441 --> 00:43:15,721
Speaker 4: like why were these not looked at? And even coming

804
00:43:15,761 --> 00:43:19,281
Speaker 4: back in conclusive was really damaging. But all these things

805
00:43:19,281 --> 00:43:23,241
Speaker 4: were found years later. An initial search was done by

806
00:43:23,241 --> 00:43:26,721
Speaker 4: the sees. In their initial search, they were told to

807
00:43:26,961 --> 00:43:29,921
Speaker 4: look up, which is a saying apparently when it comes

808
00:43:29,921 --> 00:43:32,721
Speaker 4: to search parties and looking for someone that has committed suicide.

809
00:43:33,441 --> 00:43:35,681
Speaker 4: We were told this by people that actually had been

810
00:43:35,721 --> 00:43:37,841
Speaker 4: there to conduct a search in ses. I believe they

811
00:43:37,881 --> 00:43:43,841
Speaker 4: came forward after. So it's things like this that make us,

812
00:43:43,881 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 4: I guess, believe that this is foul play.

813
00:43:47,561 --> 00:43:49,961
Speaker 3: And I remember too that it took them forever to

814
00:43:50,081 --> 00:43:52,681
Speaker 3: even get the DNA testing done, Like it was months

815
00:43:52,681 --> 00:43:55,361
Speaker 3: and months and months and months. And I guess the

816
00:43:55,441 --> 00:43:58,641
Speaker 3: other disappointing thing about this case is that after the

817
00:43:58,681 --> 00:44:01,561
Speaker 3: coroner gave her findings in twenty six she actually gave

818
00:44:02,121 --> 00:44:06,681
Speaker 3: authorization I believe to the investigating off said to get

819
00:44:06,801 --> 00:44:08,841
Speaker 3: rid of all of the evidence. Do we know if

820
00:44:08,881 --> 00:44:10,761
Speaker 3: that actually happened or did they keep it.

821
00:44:11,801 --> 00:44:14,561
Speaker 4: I'm unsure, but I believe that, well, we don't have

822
00:44:14,601 --> 00:44:15,481
Speaker 4: access to it.

823
00:44:16,641 --> 00:44:19,801
Speaker 3: Hold that thought will have to hope, like no tomorrow

824
00:44:19,881 --> 00:44:21,881
Speaker 3: that they didn't throw it out and that it is

825
00:44:21,881 --> 00:44:25,281
Speaker 3: still there and maybe it can be retested with new technology.

826
00:44:25,321 --> 00:44:27,881
Speaker 3: Who knows what they could pull out of something like

827
00:44:27,921 --> 00:44:32,881
Speaker 3: that that was found. So fingers crossed that did not happen.

828
00:44:33,001 --> 00:44:34,881
Speaker 3: I can only hope with all my being that that

829
00:44:34,961 --> 00:44:38,121
Speaker 3: did not happen. So let's talk about the Queensland Police.

830
00:44:39,041 --> 00:44:44,001
Speaker 3: What actions did the police take when Sandrine first went missing?

831
00:44:44,521 --> 00:44:49,081
Speaker 3: And in your view, was the search effort proportional to

832
00:44:49,161 --> 00:44:51,521
Speaker 3: the concern that you all felt as her family.

833
00:44:52,841 --> 00:44:56,881
Speaker 4: Absolutely not. The effort was minimal by the police. They've

834
00:44:56,921 --> 00:44:59,681
Speaker 4: done their normal you know, check in with someone here

835
00:44:59,721 --> 00:45:02,161
Speaker 4: and check in with someone there. But as soon as

836
00:45:02,201 --> 00:45:06,481
Speaker 4: they spoke to specific people, especially Ian, who was her

837
00:45:06,521 --> 00:45:09,761
Speaker 4: ex boyfriend who had previously slid up, he didn't get

838
00:45:09,841 --> 00:45:14,241
Speaker 4: questioned until three months after she went missing. Brad, who

839
00:45:14,321 --> 00:45:17,441
Speaker 4: was another key man I wouldn't say suspect, but another

840
00:45:18,001 --> 00:45:21,641
Speaker 4: person that was of interest. He was not questioned until

841
00:45:21,681 --> 00:45:24,201
Speaker 4: three weeks after. Her best friend at the time. She

842
00:45:24,281 --> 00:45:26,841
Speaker 4: wasn't questioned due to her mental capacity or state at

843
00:45:26,881 --> 00:45:31,001
Speaker 4: that moment. So all these elements are incredibly important to

844
00:45:31,081 --> 00:45:33,201
Speaker 4: figuring out what has happened. You speak to the people

845
00:45:33,201 --> 00:45:35,601
Speaker 4: that are close to her. Obviously, they spoke to the family,

846
00:45:35,641 --> 00:45:39,241
Speaker 4: They looked into her. That's when the massive majority of

847
00:45:39,241 --> 00:45:43,161
Speaker 4: the investigation Nadana is probably looking into her previous records,

848
00:45:43,241 --> 00:45:46,121
Speaker 4: her mental health, things like that, because that's where the

849
00:45:46,121 --> 00:45:49,921
Speaker 4: tunnel vision came. It's from the initial search and the

850
00:45:49,921 --> 00:45:53,921
Speaker 4: initial conversations. And it's hard when someone asks you, oh,

851
00:45:53,961 --> 00:45:56,561
Speaker 4: did someone struggle with their mental health? You're immediately not

852
00:45:56,641 --> 00:45:59,961
Speaker 4: going to think, oh, they're asking miss to pin her

853
00:46:00,001 --> 00:46:02,241
Speaker 4: for a certain reason that you're just saying yes, of

854
00:46:02,281 --> 00:46:05,521
Speaker 4: course she may have. You're giving them options to with like,

855
00:46:05,641 --> 00:46:09,001
Speaker 4: yes she did, but also this is still questionable. And

856
00:46:09,161 --> 00:46:11,681
Speaker 4: obviously all these things as well didn't come up until

857
00:46:11,721 --> 00:46:16,321
Speaker 4: weeks later where we're really questioning it. People that she

858
00:46:16,441 --> 00:46:19,761
Speaker 4: was hanging around, Things start coming together, leads start coming out.

859
00:46:20,081 --> 00:46:22,361
Speaker 4: This is a case that is built over a series

860
00:46:22,441 --> 00:46:24,881
Speaker 4: of time, but all the investigation has been done by

861
00:46:24,881 --> 00:46:27,161
Speaker 4: the family, not by the police. The minimal effort that

862
00:46:27,241 --> 00:46:31,001
Speaker 4: was given from the police proves in the five page

863
00:46:31,761 --> 00:46:35,241
Speaker 4: report that they gave to the coroner based on their findings.

864
00:46:35,641 --> 00:46:40,801
Speaker 4: A five page report is not an investigation, in my understanding,

865
00:46:41,561 --> 00:46:44,761
Speaker 4: almost like an assumption. They spoke, they've done their little bits,

866
00:46:44,801 --> 00:46:46,521
Speaker 4: little bobs here and there, spoke to a couple of

867
00:46:46,561 --> 00:46:50,281
Speaker 4: people and then they just that was that. So there was. Yeah,

868
00:46:50,321 --> 00:46:53,681
Speaker 4: there was very minimal help from the police at the

869
00:46:53,681 --> 00:46:54,841
Speaker 4: beginning or if not.

870
00:46:54,921 --> 00:47:01,521
Speaker 3: All, and they still have Sandrine listed as missing. Many

871
00:47:01,681 --> 00:47:05,521
Speaker 3: feel the investigation was way too narrow in focus, included

872
00:47:06,161 --> 00:47:09,601
Speaker 3: and lack of what you would expect when someone goes missing.

873
00:47:10,521 --> 00:47:13,481
Speaker 3: Do you feel the police made assumptions about your mum

874
00:47:14,001 --> 00:47:17,841
Speaker 3: and what gaps in the police response are most concerning

875
00:47:17,841 --> 00:47:18,201
Speaker 3: to you.

876
00:47:19,001 --> 00:47:23,521
Speaker 4: Yes, they definitely made an assumption about my mom based

877
00:47:23,521 --> 00:47:27,481
Speaker 4: on her mental health and based on her being. There

878
00:47:27,521 --> 00:47:31,081
Speaker 4: was one police I guess that made a comment about her,

879
00:47:31,881 --> 00:47:35,401
Speaker 4: you know, being with many men, so insinuating that you know,

880
00:47:36,041 --> 00:47:41,881
Speaker 4: she's promiscuous, she was sleeping around. She also had struggle

881
00:47:41,921 --> 00:47:43,761
Speaker 4: with her mental health, and then that was that case

882
00:47:43,801 --> 00:47:47,601
Speaker 4: closed for them.

883
00:47:47,641 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 3: And it's just heartbreaking, isn't it, Because there's so much

884
00:47:49,961 --> 00:47:52,961
Speaker 3: more to someone's person than, you know, their relationships, and

885
00:47:53,001 --> 00:47:55,841
Speaker 3: people do struggle. My mom struggled too, She struggled to

886
00:47:55,841 --> 00:47:59,041
Speaker 3: have relationships and stay in relationships, and she was ostracized

887
00:47:59,041 --> 00:48:01,801
Speaker 3: by her own family for that too. But it doesn't

888
00:48:01,841 --> 00:48:04,561
Speaker 3: define why someone would go missing, and I think that's

889
00:48:04,761 --> 00:48:07,641
Speaker 3: a really important part and something that I hold close

890
00:48:07,681 --> 00:48:10,721
Speaker 3: to my heart to with your mum because you know,

891
00:48:10,801 --> 00:48:13,921
Speaker 3: you've told me there were comments made like a woman

892
00:48:14,081 --> 00:48:18,001
Speaker 3: like her and she's probably buried underneath the Coles car park.

893
00:48:18,641 --> 00:48:20,761
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you if you would share with

894
00:48:20,801 --> 00:48:24,881
Speaker 3: our listeners what impact comments like these have on you

895
00:48:25,081 --> 00:48:27,841
Speaker 3: as the daughter of a missing mum.

896
00:48:27,881 --> 00:48:32,001
Speaker 4: Honestly, frustration and anger. And it took me a long

897
00:48:32,081 --> 00:48:35,561
Speaker 4: time to be able to almost put a lid on

898
00:48:35,601 --> 00:48:40,001
Speaker 4: it because my immediate thing is to defend, defend, defend,

899
00:48:40,001 --> 00:48:44,601
Speaker 4: defend and justify because I know my mum and it's

900
00:48:44,641 --> 00:48:47,321
Speaker 4: frustrating when you're having an opinion force on your throat,

901
00:48:47,601 --> 00:48:52,601
Speaker 4: especially as well I understand that I want people talking

902
00:48:52,601 --> 00:48:55,601
Speaker 4: about mum's case. It makes me I wouldn't say it.

903
00:48:55,601 --> 00:48:57,561
Speaker 4: I guess happy is the right word, but it makes

904
00:48:57,601 --> 00:49:00,761
Speaker 4: me feel a lot better about knowing that people are

905
00:49:00,761 --> 00:49:04,001
Speaker 4: communicating and you know, talking amongst friends and commenting on posts.

906
00:49:04,001 --> 00:49:06,881
Speaker 4: But it's hard to well when the police. We've had

907
00:49:06,881 --> 00:49:09,041
Speaker 4: a certain way of being looked at by the police

908
00:49:09,081 --> 00:49:11,441
Speaker 4: over these years. We've had to hear horrendous things in

909
00:49:11,481 --> 00:49:14,281
Speaker 4: comments that they've made towards the family. On top of

910
00:49:14,761 --> 00:49:18,081
Speaker 4: you know, hateful comments that might come through people like

911
00:49:18,201 --> 00:49:20,681
Speaker 4: that letter saying that she was premiscuous since she was

912
00:49:21,161 --> 00:49:24,161
Speaker 4: sleeping around and all these things. And I'm also hearing

913
00:49:24,201 --> 00:49:27,281
Speaker 4: these things as a young twelve year old girl. I

914
00:49:27,321 --> 00:49:29,601
Speaker 4: don't have my mum there, you know, I don't have

915
00:49:29,641 --> 00:49:31,921
Speaker 4: her there to help me through, you know, the learnings

916
00:49:31,961 --> 00:49:35,041
Speaker 4: of life. So yeah, immediate, My immediate thing and that

917
00:49:35,121 --> 00:49:37,321
Speaker 4: I held onto for a lot of years was anger

918
00:49:37,961 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 4: and frustration. Now that I'm older, I am more understanding.

919
00:49:45,521 --> 00:49:48,401
Speaker 4: I've gone through my own struggles. I also had time

920
00:49:48,401 --> 00:49:50,721
Speaker 4: to struggle with my mental health. I understand what it's like,

921
00:49:50,801 --> 00:49:54,281
Speaker 4: especially being a woman. So I feel as if I'm

922
00:49:54,361 --> 00:49:57,201
Speaker 4: still growing up with her there and she's still teaching

923
00:49:57,201 --> 00:49:59,801
Speaker 4: me things even though she's not here. So I went from,

924
00:49:59,841 --> 00:50:03,321
Speaker 4: you know, being angry to some sort of level of

925
00:50:03,401 --> 00:50:05,801
Speaker 4: understanding about people and not always going to agree with you,

926
00:50:05,961 --> 00:50:08,481
Speaker 4: but stand true to what you believe in. And I

927
00:50:08,481 --> 00:50:10,201
Speaker 4: believe that my mum is not this person.

928
00:50:11,641 --> 00:50:14,281
Speaker 3: And people are saying her name and people are remembering

929
00:50:14,281 --> 00:50:17,521
Speaker 3: her and talking about her, and that's important and I

930
00:50:17,561 --> 00:50:20,401
Speaker 3: think that will sit with you on your shoulder and

931
00:50:20,481 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: help you move through as well. And you know, she'd

932
00:50:23,521 --> 00:50:25,481
Speaker 3: be very proud of the woman that you are, and

933
00:50:25,521 --> 00:50:28,441
Speaker 3: that you're sitting here talking to me and wanting to

934
00:50:28,481 --> 00:50:31,761
Speaker 3: help share her journey and her story to help find

935
00:50:31,801 --> 00:50:34,921
Speaker 3: her so we can bring her home. A major frustration

936
00:50:35,161 --> 00:50:37,641
Speaker 3: for many families of missing persons is a lack of

937
00:50:37,681 --> 00:50:41,241
Speaker 3: visibility early on in the disappearance.

938
00:50:42,401 --> 00:50:44,481
Speaker 1: How did media coverage or.

939
00:50:45,001 --> 00:50:48,161
Speaker 3: Lack of it affect the search efforts in the first

940
00:50:48,161 --> 00:50:51,961
Speaker 3: weeks or months for your mum significantly?

941
00:50:52,881 --> 00:50:54,561
Speaker 4: We felt as if no one cared or no one

942
00:50:54,641 --> 00:50:58,041
Speaker 4: was speaking about it. We didn't get any media coverage

943
00:50:58,121 --> 00:51:00,841
Speaker 4: and it was the smallest amount of weeks after she

944
00:51:00,881 --> 00:51:04,121
Speaker 4: went missing. At this point in a missing person's case,

945
00:51:04,721 --> 00:51:08,041
Speaker 4: it's even the first seventy two hours are the most

946
00:51:08,081 --> 00:51:11,321
Speaker 4: important time. The first week is the most important time,

947
00:51:11,361 --> 00:51:14,601
Speaker 4: and to not even have any coverage, but there was,

948
00:51:14,961 --> 00:51:18,081
Speaker 4: you know, coverage around potentially other people going missing at

949
00:51:18,081 --> 00:51:20,481
Speaker 4: the times, So that was also hard for us to

950
00:51:20,521 --> 00:51:24,201
Speaker 4: see and hear because other people's stories being spoken about,

951
00:51:24,241 --> 00:51:27,521
Speaker 4: but because we were looked at with so much tunnel

952
00:51:27,601 --> 00:51:29,841
Speaker 4: vision and that we were kind of disregarded.

953
00:51:31,001 --> 00:51:34,961
Speaker 3: I'm going to say, I feel like the media exposure

954
00:51:35,041 --> 00:51:37,641
Speaker 3: generally comes from the police push, right, So if the

955
00:51:37,641 --> 00:51:40,961
Speaker 3: police believe a certain narrative, they will push that out

956
00:51:41,001 --> 00:51:42,801
Speaker 3: to the media because they want the media to spread

957
00:51:42,841 --> 00:51:44,921
Speaker 3: the words so that we can find or they can

958
00:51:44,921 --> 00:51:47,121
Speaker 3: find answers as to what's happened. But if they've made

959
00:51:47,121 --> 00:51:50,001
Speaker 3: an assumption about somebody over here and they go, oh,

960
00:51:50,121 --> 00:51:53,081
Speaker 3: mental health in the mix, so she must have definitely suicided.

961
00:51:53,161 --> 00:51:55,681
Speaker 3: So that's a case closed for us. We'll just do

962
00:51:55,721 --> 00:51:57,761
Speaker 3: our five part document and give it to the coroner

963
00:51:57,881 --> 00:52:00,641
Speaker 3: and it'll be done and dusted and we don't.

964
00:52:00,481 --> 00:52:01,401
Speaker 1: Have to worry about it.

965
00:52:02,401 --> 00:52:05,001
Speaker 3: I agree with you, and I've looked at twenty twelve

966
00:52:05,081 --> 00:52:06,721
Speaker 3: when your mum went missing, and there are a lot

967
00:52:06,721 --> 00:52:10,881
Speaker 3: of women who disappeared that garnered huge media attention and

968
00:52:11,121 --> 00:52:14,201
Speaker 3: was on the news every night. That does cause us

969
00:52:14,201 --> 00:52:17,681
Speaker 3: a lot of frustration and anger and upset and kind

970
00:52:17,721 --> 00:52:20,841
Speaker 3: of like a dismayed feeling.

971
00:52:20,921 --> 00:52:23,601
Speaker 1: I think of, why are you not looking? Why you're

972
00:52:23,601 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: not looking for my mom?

973
00:52:24,681 --> 00:52:27,161
Speaker 3: Like I need my Mom's important, she matters and we

974
00:52:27,241 --> 00:52:30,961
Speaker 3: need to find her. So I completely empathize with you

975
00:52:31,001 --> 00:52:33,881
Speaker 3: on that. I know exactly how that feels. So there's

976
00:52:33,921 --> 00:52:37,761
Speaker 3: still no official reward on offer for information about your

977
00:52:37,841 --> 00:52:39,001
Speaker 3: mum's disappearance.

978
00:52:39,721 --> 00:52:41,361
Speaker 1: In your opinion, how.

979
00:52:41,321 --> 00:52:45,081
Speaker 3: Might a reward help generate new leads or attention. And

980
00:52:45,161 --> 00:52:46,921
Speaker 3: why is this so important?

981
00:52:47,641 --> 00:52:52,521
Speaker 4: Because money is such a massive motivator for humans, It's

982
00:52:52,521 --> 00:52:54,601
Speaker 4: the reason we go to work. Everyone the world has

983
00:52:54,681 --> 00:52:57,881
Speaker 4: revolved around money. People may not want to come forward

984
00:52:57,921 --> 00:53:01,801
Speaker 4: out of fear or no idea what their reasoning would be.

985
00:53:01,921 --> 00:53:05,321
Speaker 4: But bringing money into the equation, you see it cross

986
00:53:05,481 --> 00:53:08,721
Speaker 4: multiple cases when the media is talking about it. Media

987
00:53:08,841 --> 00:53:11,921
Speaker 4: is key. The two things is media and money. They're

988
00:53:11,961 --> 00:53:14,321
Speaker 4: the things that will really make a case stick to people.

989
00:53:14,721 --> 00:53:18,521
Speaker 4: So because there has been no reward, everyone's like, well,

990
00:53:18,521 --> 00:53:20,641
Speaker 4: what am I going to get out of bringing forward

991
00:53:20,681 --> 00:53:23,721
Speaker 4: this information? Like they could get in trouble, they could

992
00:53:24,281 --> 00:53:27,761
Speaker 4: be faced with their own situations which may impact their

993
00:53:27,761 --> 00:53:30,641
Speaker 4: lives or their loved ones. These are the things I

994
00:53:30,681 --> 00:53:33,641
Speaker 4: guess that really impacted the media. Attention, the lack of

995
00:53:33,721 --> 00:53:35,841
Speaker 4: that we received impacted it, and then the lack of

996
00:53:35,881 --> 00:53:40,321
Speaker 4: reward for any leads. So I believe truly if you

997
00:53:40,361 --> 00:53:42,961
Speaker 4: bring money into the equation, I do believe that it

998
00:53:43,001 --> 00:53:45,201
Speaker 4: will get people talking because it always does.

999
00:53:46,281 --> 00:53:47,561
Speaker 1: It's definitely a motivator.

1000
00:53:47,881 --> 00:53:49,681
Speaker 3: And I know there's a lot of talk around because

1001
00:53:49,681 --> 00:53:51,321
Speaker 3: I know even with my mum's case, you didn't have

1002
00:53:51,321 --> 00:53:54,361
Speaker 3: a reward either, and took me ages to finally get one,

1003
00:53:54,401 --> 00:53:56,441
Speaker 3: and then they opped it as we went into the inquest,

1004
00:53:56,441 --> 00:54:00,001
Speaker 3: and I've just recently requested New South Wales Police ministered

1005
00:54:00,001 --> 00:54:03,201
Speaker 3: it up at two million dollars Because, like in your

1006
00:54:03,281 --> 00:54:06,961
Speaker 3: mum's case, I believe someone knows something. That motivator is

1007
00:54:07,361 --> 00:54:11,201
Speaker 3: key to even just getting some more information. They might

1008
00:54:11,241 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 3: not even know what's happened, but they might know something else,

1009
00:54:14,481 --> 00:54:16,721
Speaker 3: which could be another piece of the jigsaw puzzle that

1010
00:54:16,721 --> 00:54:19,801
Speaker 3: we're trying to put together to piece what's actually happened

1011
00:54:19,961 --> 00:54:23,601
Speaker 3: and find our loved ones. So we've spoken a little

1012
00:54:23,601 --> 00:54:27,041
Speaker 3: bit about this already, but am I correct in thinking

1013
00:54:27,041 --> 00:54:31,321
Speaker 3: that all of your family don't believe that your mum

1014
00:54:31,361 --> 00:54:34,561
Speaker 3: would have taken her own life, especially given the future

1015
00:54:34,601 --> 00:54:35,841
Speaker 3: plans that she was making.

1016
00:54:35,921 --> 00:54:38,921
Speaker 1: We talked about she bought a phone that day.

1017
00:54:39,361 --> 00:54:41,841
Speaker 3: They're not things that people do if they're deciding that

1018
00:54:41,881 --> 00:54:44,441
Speaker 3: they're going to take their own life, and she was

1019
00:54:44,481 --> 00:54:46,921
Speaker 3: making steps forward to have you guys come and live

1020
00:54:46,961 --> 00:54:50,921
Speaker 3: with her and get housing. Why do you think those

1021
00:54:51,001 --> 00:54:55,121
Speaker 3: details were not given more weight by investigators and in

1022
00:54:55,161 --> 00:54:58,401
Speaker 3: particular given to the coroner for consideration.

1023
00:54:59,681 --> 00:55:04,281
Speaker 4: Because a lot of the plans that we have gathered

1024
00:55:04,681 --> 00:55:06,761
Speaker 4: or we have seen that Mom had been working towards

1025
00:55:06,761 --> 00:55:09,841
Speaker 4: were all journals. Some were conversations, but a lot of it.

1026
00:55:09,881 --> 00:55:13,241
Speaker 4: My mom has always been a journaler her entire life.

1027
00:55:13,401 --> 00:55:15,241
Speaker 4: It's a massive thing that she does, which is also

1028
00:55:15,481 --> 00:55:18,481
Speaker 4: bledding to me a little bit. But all of her

1029
00:55:18,561 --> 00:55:22,841
Speaker 4: journaling was considered rambling by the detectives that were looking

1030
00:55:22,841 --> 00:55:28,081
Speaker 4: into this case. So Mom had dated arguments that she's had, conversations,

1031
00:55:28,121 --> 00:55:32,081
Speaker 4: she's had with people, she's dated, sometimes timed. She had

1032
00:55:32,121 --> 00:55:35,361
Speaker 4: written everything down, but because they had such a tunnel

1033
00:55:35,441 --> 00:55:37,361
Speaker 4: vision on it and they were looking up, Yeah, she's

1034
00:55:37,361 --> 00:55:41,041
Speaker 4: mentally unstable. There was no weight behind it. Even though

1035
00:55:41,041 --> 00:55:44,081
Speaker 4: she specifically like she was communicating to us since innocence

1036
00:55:44,081 --> 00:55:47,201
Speaker 4: from the past. She was giving us all these hints, No,

1037
00:55:47,321 --> 00:55:49,121
Speaker 4: I didn't go off and you know, walk off and

1038
00:55:49,121 --> 00:55:51,641
Speaker 4: commit suicide. I'm trying to get my kids back. She

1039
00:55:51,721 --> 00:55:54,801
Speaker 4: was applying for rentals. There were so many elements that

1040
00:55:54,841 --> 00:55:59,201
Speaker 4: were leading towards her looking towards the future. But yeah,

1041
00:55:59,241 --> 00:56:02,881
Speaker 4: they were considered rambling and she was considered delusional. Her

1042
00:56:02,921 --> 00:56:04,961
Speaker 4: delusional ramblings was the word.

1043
00:56:05,521 --> 00:56:08,721
Speaker 3: Oh well, that's rough and it's hard for you to

1044
00:56:08,761 --> 00:56:11,041
Speaker 3: read as well for the family to read that that's

1045
00:56:11,041 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 3: what they're saying. And good on her that she kept

1046
00:56:13,521 --> 00:56:16,401
Speaker 3: journals because that actually is so important in a missing

1047
00:56:16,401 --> 00:56:19,361
Speaker 3: person's case because we can go back through and look

1048
00:56:19,401 --> 00:56:21,721
Speaker 3: at them. But one thing that I would personally say

1049
00:56:21,921 --> 00:56:26,041
Speaker 3: is that someone who is an expert in the field

1050
00:56:26,281 --> 00:56:30,361
Speaker 3: of say, someone who is suffering in certain way shapes

1051
00:56:30,481 --> 00:56:32,281
Speaker 3: or form like, let's not put a label on it,

1052
00:56:32,681 --> 00:56:36,561
Speaker 3: instead of a detective who's in my opinion, not trained

1053
00:56:36,801 --> 00:56:39,521
Speaker 3: or gone to university to be a psychiatrist or a

1054
00:56:39,521 --> 00:56:42,921
Speaker 3: psychologist as to be able to assess how someone might

1055
00:56:42,961 --> 00:56:46,801
Speaker 3: be feeling to even write the words delusion or rambling,

1056
00:56:47,401 --> 00:56:49,041
Speaker 3: it should have been a case. And this is what

1057
00:56:49,081 --> 00:56:52,201
Speaker 3: things can take place in an inquest, because the coroner

1058
00:56:52,241 --> 00:56:54,921
Speaker 3: can give those journals to someone who is a professional

1059
00:56:55,001 --> 00:56:58,321
Speaker 3: in that field and make an assumption based on their

1060
00:56:58,321 --> 00:57:02,561
Speaker 3: academic knowledge and their foundations to be able to give

1061
00:57:02,601 --> 00:57:08,041
Speaker 3: factual information or factual response to those writings that your

1062
00:57:08,081 --> 00:57:11,121
Speaker 3: mum put in her journals. And I think that's a

1063
00:57:11,161 --> 00:57:14,761
Speaker 3: super important part of this as well, because once again,

1064
00:57:14,801 --> 00:57:17,601
Speaker 3: I feel like they just throw these words out very

1065
00:57:18,201 --> 00:57:21,161
Speaker 3: willing nearly they've made it, they've looked at it, they've

1066
00:57:21,201 --> 00:57:23,201
Speaker 3: had a read of it, and they've just made judgment

1067
00:57:23,641 --> 00:57:26,681
Speaker 3: on something that they're not probably privy to make judgment on.

1068
00:57:26,841 --> 00:57:29,441
Speaker 1: In my personal opinion, I feel like they're not.

1069
00:57:29,921 --> 00:57:33,321
Speaker 3: It's not really their forte per se to make judgment

1070
00:57:33,401 --> 00:57:38,441
Speaker 3: on people's writings and making those assumptions themselves, especially when

1071
00:57:38,441 --> 00:57:39,761
Speaker 3: we're talking about a missing person.

1072
00:57:40,441 --> 00:57:43,041
Speaker 4: I absolutely agree, and that's why they do have professionals

1073
00:57:43,041 --> 00:57:46,081
Speaker 4: that work in those areas that can be doing those things.

1074
00:57:46,121 --> 00:57:50,841
Speaker 4: But unfortunately, yeah, that was just completely overlooked, which is

1075
00:57:50,881 --> 00:57:53,241
Speaker 4: confusing for me as well, because my mum is a

1076
00:57:53,401 --> 00:57:59,401
Speaker 4: very intelligent woman. She from high school all the way through,

1077
00:58:00,161 --> 00:58:03,201
Speaker 4: very very smart. Everyone that you would meet, friends, family,

1078
00:58:03,241 --> 00:58:08,121
Speaker 4: would alsoy that she was incredible, emotionally intelligent, incredibly books smart.

1079
00:58:08,921 --> 00:58:12,601
Speaker 4: Why would these ramblings that have been so descriptive and

1080
00:58:12,721 --> 00:58:15,401
Speaker 4: make sense and the days match up, why would that

1081
00:58:15,441 --> 00:58:17,761
Speaker 4: be considered rambling? You'd think rambling is a little bit

1082
00:58:17,761 --> 00:58:19,281
Speaker 4: of scruble here, a little bit of scribble there that

1083
00:58:19,281 --> 00:58:21,881
Speaker 4: doesn't really make sense, that doesn't really make sense. No,

1084
00:58:22,001 --> 00:58:26,041
Speaker 4: these all flows nicely, So that's really confusing as well.

1085
00:58:26,081 --> 00:58:28,681
Speaker 4: But it's again it goes back to the tunnel vision

1086
00:58:29,081 --> 00:58:33,401
Speaker 4: and the immediate view that they had from the beginning.

1087
00:58:34,001 --> 00:58:36,401
Speaker 3: And that's sort of how that narrative has flowed all

1088
00:58:36,441 --> 00:58:37,481
Speaker 3: the way through, hasn't it.

1089
00:58:37,961 --> 00:58:38,681
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.

1090
00:58:39,881 --> 00:58:44,281
Speaker 3: So for years your family and private investigators have pursued

1091
00:58:44,361 --> 00:58:48,481
Speaker 3: leads that have appeared to have been downplayed or dismayed

1092
00:58:48,601 --> 00:58:51,881
Speaker 3: early on. What are some of those leads you feel

1093
00:58:51,961 --> 00:58:54,361
Speaker 3: deserve closer scrutiny at this.

1094
00:58:54,361 --> 00:58:58,881
Speaker 4: Point, So there was witnesses that were never questioned until

1095
00:58:59,321 --> 00:59:02,161
Speaker 4: twelve thirteen years later that we actually still don't even

1096
00:59:03,201 --> 00:59:07,041
Speaker 4: there's no statement. There's also people like her close friends

1097
00:59:07,081 --> 00:59:09,481
Speaker 4: at the time, one of her best friends, she had

1098
00:59:09,521 --> 00:59:11,561
Speaker 4: a falling out three weeks prior to her going missing,

1099
00:59:11,561 --> 00:59:14,081
Speaker 4: and she was never questioned due to her best friend's

1100
00:59:14,081 --> 00:59:18,481
Speaker 4: mental state at the time. She made no statement. Brad

1101
00:59:18,801 --> 00:59:22,241
Speaker 4: was being suicidal. After Mum's disappearance, Mum had tried to

1102
00:59:22,241 --> 00:59:25,281
Speaker 4: get in contact with Brad. There was a massive element

1103
00:59:25,441 --> 00:59:31,521
Speaker 4: of emotional distress between Mum and Brad due to Mum

1104
00:59:31,561 --> 00:59:34,441
Speaker 4: trying to help Brad's ex partner out of a situation.

1105
00:59:35,561 --> 00:59:39,841
Speaker 4: Rob and the other housemates that were there at Rob's house,

1106
00:59:39,881 --> 00:59:42,201
Speaker 4: so the day that Mum went missing, they all knew

1107
00:59:42,281 --> 00:59:45,481
Speaker 4: Mum's whereabouts on that day. Not one of them was questioned.

1108
00:59:45,521 --> 00:59:49,601
Speaker 4: There is no statement. Teresa, Mum's as well close friend,

1109
00:59:49,681 --> 00:59:52,361
Speaker 4: had never made a statement. There was also reports of

1110
00:59:52,401 --> 00:59:55,921
Speaker 4: a white station wagon mentioned by John the day after

1111
00:59:55,961 --> 00:59:58,401
Speaker 4: Mum went missing out the front of his house. A

1112
00:59:58,481 --> 01:00:01,961
Speaker 4: witness later on mentioned a white station wagon near where

1113
01:00:02,041 --> 01:00:06,641
Speaker 4: Mum went missing with three men inside. My uncle then

1114
01:00:06,761 --> 01:00:09,841
Speaker 4: later mentioned that there was a white station wagon that

1115
01:00:10,001 --> 01:00:12,761
Speaker 4: was parked outside of his property attempting to access Mum's

1116
01:00:12,761 --> 01:00:14,961
Speaker 4: car that was parked at the front. Because after Mum

1117
01:00:15,041 --> 01:00:16,921
Speaker 4: went missing, we got her car. That's how we realized

1118
01:00:16,961 --> 01:00:18,441
Speaker 4: it had been tampered with. It was sat at my

1119
01:00:18,521 --> 01:00:21,601
Speaker 4: uncle's house, and my uncle had told the police that

1120
01:00:21,641 --> 01:00:23,401
Speaker 4: there was a white station wagon that had come and

1121
01:00:23,441 --> 01:00:27,561
Speaker 4: tried to access Mum's car from his property. These things

1122
01:00:27,561 --> 01:00:30,641
Speaker 4: were never looked at, well, I believe they were looked at,

1123
01:00:30,641 --> 01:00:32,601
Speaker 4: but they were told that they was non related in

1124
01:00:32,641 --> 01:00:36,201
Speaker 4: the RTI findings, which makes no sense to me. My

1125
01:00:36,521 --> 01:00:39,801
Speaker 4: auntie as well, my other auntie Bernie, she would also

1126
01:00:41,041 --> 01:00:44,041
Speaker 4: say that there had been you know reports Mum talking

1127
01:00:44,121 --> 01:00:48,201
Speaker 4: about a white station wagon that had been following her and.

1128
01:00:48,161 --> 01:00:49,201
Speaker 1: Then they throw out comments.

1129
01:00:49,201 --> 01:00:52,121
Speaker 3: Don't they like, oh, she was just being paranoid, Yes,

1130
01:00:52,321 --> 01:00:54,841
Speaker 3: which is just it's not helpful.

1131
01:00:55,361 --> 01:00:57,761
Speaker 4: No, it's definitely not. And these are the things that

1132
01:00:58,001 --> 01:01:00,521
Speaker 4: we really struggled it comes to terms with as a family.

1133
01:01:00,561 --> 01:01:02,961
Speaker 4: And hence the reason why we probably come across as

1134
01:01:02,961 --> 01:01:08,001
Speaker 4: being overbearing, it's because we refuse to let this information die.

1135
01:01:08,441 --> 01:01:10,561
Speaker 4: If they're not going to do our own investigations, we

1136
01:01:10,641 --> 01:01:13,081
Speaker 4: will continue to speak it. We will continue to bring

1137
01:01:13,361 --> 01:01:18,281
Speaker 4: awareness to it that mum was not a delusional woman

1138
01:01:18,561 --> 01:01:24,801
Speaker 4: that went off and committed suicide. That sounds a bit insensitive.

1139
01:01:24,921 --> 01:01:25,881
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so.

1140
01:01:26,721 --> 01:01:29,521
Speaker 3: Being real and raw is important to you know, like

1141
01:01:29,681 --> 01:01:32,961
Speaker 3: this is it's hard to talk about. You're a tough cookie,

1142
01:01:33,081 --> 01:01:37,241
Speaker 3: I can tell, but you know it's important these conversations happen.

1143
01:01:37,321 --> 01:01:38,481
Speaker 4: I think so.

1144
01:01:39,161 --> 01:01:45,081
Speaker 3: After your mum's in quest finalized in twenty sixteen, the

1145
01:01:45,161 --> 01:01:48,561
Speaker 3: coroner did say that your mum has passed away.

1146
01:01:48,721 --> 01:01:51,241
Speaker 1: Your family, I know, believed that she.

1147
01:01:51,321 --> 01:01:55,441
Speaker 3: Has passed away and you were able to apply for

1148
01:01:55,521 --> 01:01:56,561
Speaker 3: a death certificate day.

1149
01:01:56,601 --> 01:01:57,561
Speaker 1: Is that correct?

1150
01:01:58,041 --> 01:01:59,281
Speaker 4: Yes, it was correct.

1151
01:02:00,201 --> 01:02:02,801
Speaker 3: So one thing that a lot of people don't know

1152
01:02:02,841 --> 01:02:06,321
Speaker 3: in this space is that once you you have a

1153
01:02:06,321 --> 01:02:09,401
Speaker 3: death certificate. With a missing person's case, you can apply

1154
01:02:09,521 --> 01:02:12,361
Speaker 3: for a thing called a grant of probate. You have

1155
01:02:12,441 --> 01:02:14,801
Speaker 3: to go through the Supreme Court and it does cost

1156
01:02:15,281 --> 01:02:21,281
Speaker 3: approximately five thousand dollars. However, in doing that, it actually

1157
01:02:21,841 --> 01:02:25,801
Speaker 3: allows the next of kin for your mom to access

1158
01:02:25,881 --> 01:02:28,481
Speaker 3: your mum's personal information. So that might mean that they

1159
01:02:28,481 --> 01:02:31,241
Speaker 3: could go and get information from Medicare, they can get

1160
01:02:31,281 --> 01:02:36,121
Speaker 3: information from the ATO, they could actually get information from

1161
01:02:36,601 --> 01:02:41,161
Speaker 3: say mental health like Queensland Mental Health or Queensland Health

1162
01:02:41,201 --> 01:02:44,121
Speaker 3: if they had information about your mum and reports on

1163
01:02:45,161 --> 01:02:47,161
Speaker 3: interviews and times that they've spoken to her.

1164
01:02:47,641 --> 01:02:49,041
Speaker 1: Do you guys have that.

1165
01:02:49,281 --> 01:02:51,561
Speaker 3: I know you've got so many people helping in your family,

1166
01:02:51,601 --> 01:02:53,801
Speaker 3: which I think is just amazing. You're such a great

1167
01:02:53,801 --> 01:02:56,801
Speaker 3: family network. Do you know if that's happened yet.

1168
01:02:58,041 --> 01:03:02,681
Speaker 4: I know that my grandmother said my dad's mom. I

1169
01:03:02,721 --> 01:03:05,841
Speaker 4: know that mom did leave everything to so my grandma

1170
01:03:05,881 --> 01:03:10,041
Speaker 4: and she was able to access bank accounts, centralink information,

1171
01:03:10,641 --> 01:03:13,401
Speaker 4: stuff like that. I'm unsure though about mental health records.

1172
01:03:13,801 --> 01:03:15,601
Speaker 3: That might be just something to have a chat with

1173
01:03:15,641 --> 01:03:18,321
Speaker 3: the family about and let them know, because I know

1174
01:03:18,721 --> 01:03:22,081
Speaker 3: with another case that I've recently done, we had a

1175
01:03:22,081 --> 01:03:25,881
Speaker 3: gentleman whose I was talking with his sister and he

1176
01:03:25,921 --> 01:03:29,201
Speaker 3: too had mental health problems, but he only had his

1177
01:03:29,281 --> 01:03:31,401
Speaker 3: inquest last year and she hadn't got to a point.

1178
01:03:31,401 --> 01:03:33,961
Speaker 3: I know last year we were sort of talking about

1179
01:03:33,961 --> 01:03:36,561
Speaker 3: her applying for a death certificate for him so she

1180
01:03:36,641 --> 01:03:39,121
Speaker 3: could take that next step to get the grant of probate,

1181
01:03:39,561 --> 01:03:43,241
Speaker 3: because even the coroner during the inquest wasn't able to

1182
01:03:43,321 --> 01:03:46,321
Speaker 3: actually access any of that information because it was so

1183
01:03:46,481 --> 01:03:48,641
Speaker 3: tightly under the Privacy Act.

1184
01:03:48,681 --> 01:03:50,161
Speaker 1: They weren't allowed to access it.

1185
01:03:50,321 --> 01:03:53,841
Speaker 3: So maybe if they don't have that yet, or you

1186
01:03:53,881 --> 01:03:56,281
Speaker 3: haven't gone down that route and you haven't been able

1187
01:03:56,281 --> 01:03:58,241
Speaker 3: to access it, just I wanted to mention it to

1188
01:03:58,281 --> 01:04:00,321
Speaker 3: you guys, just in case it was something that hasn't

1189
01:04:00,361 --> 01:04:05,841
Speaker 3: been thought about yet. Losing your mum and not knowing

1190
01:04:05,881 --> 01:04:10,281
Speaker 3: where she is, if she's safe and well, not having

1191
01:04:10,321 --> 01:04:13,521
Speaker 3: her there on your wedding day, missing out on all

1192
01:04:13,561 --> 01:04:17,161
Speaker 3: those big moments in life, or just being able to

1193
01:04:17,201 --> 01:04:19,681
Speaker 3: give you a hug when you're having a really rough day,

1194
01:04:20,521 --> 01:04:23,001
Speaker 3: I know is personally one of the hardest things you

1195
01:04:23,081 --> 01:04:27,841
Speaker 3: have to deal with it in this space. Psychologists call

1196
01:04:27,961 --> 01:04:32,241
Speaker 3: this kind of grief ambiguous loss, the kind of loss

1197
01:04:32,241 --> 01:04:35,441
Speaker 3: that comes from never knowing what's happened or having a

1198
01:04:35,521 --> 01:04:39,641
Speaker 3: body too laid to rest. Nakita, you were twelve when

1199
01:04:39,681 --> 01:04:43,361
Speaker 3: your mum vanished. You're now twenty six. How has her

1200
01:04:43,401 --> 01:04:47,601
Speaker 3: disappearance shaped your ability to grieve for her.

1201
01:04:48,441 --> 01:04:53,041
Speaker 4: I would say that I'm in a constant state of

1202
01:04:54,081 --> 01:04:58,561
Speaker 4: questioning that I struggle to sit down and just really

1203
01:04:59,441 --> 01:05:03,561
Speaker 4: sit and appreciate the times that I did have with her.

1204
01:05:03,601 --> 01:05:07,681
Speaker 4: I'm so surrounded by her disappearance that, you know, it

1205
01:05:07,681 --> 01:05:09,321
Speaker 4: does make it harder for me to look back on

1206
01:05:09,361 --> 01:05:11,521
Speaker 4: memories of when I was little and what not, although they're

1207
01:05:11,561 --> 01:05:15,881
Speaker 4: my favorite thing to do. I love watching videos and

1208
01:05:16,321 --> 01:05:18,201
Speaker 4: I love looking back at photos. It's one of my

1209
01:05:18,241 --> 01:05:20,281
Speaker 4: favorite things to do. It's the only thing I can do,

1210
01:05:20,841 --> 01:05:23,681
Speaker 4: you know, look back on memories of mum. But I

1211
01:05:23,721 --> 01:05:26,121
Speaker 4: haven't really been able to grieve. And that's been the

1212
01:05:26,161 --> 01:05:29,041
Speaker 4: hardest part, is that I am I'm grieving someone that

1213
01:05:29,081 --> 01:05:31,521
Speaker 4: we are unsure about what's happened. I'm grieving my mother.

1214
01:05:31,881 --> 01:05:34,121
Speaker 4: She's a key person in my life. She's a key

1215
01:05:34,161 --> 01:05:36,841
Speaker 4: person in everyone's life. Your mother is important. You need

1216
01:05:36,881 --> 01:05:40,081
Speaker 4: your mother through you know, I graduated high school without

1217
01:05:40,121 --> 01:05:42,201
Speaker 4: my mom. I'm going to have kids without my mom.

1218
01:05:42,241 --> 01:05:45,201
Speaker 4: I'm going to get married without my mom. These are

1219
01:05:45,241 --> 01:05:49,281
Speaker 4: all really important things that I wish she could be here,

1220
01:05:49,281 --> 01:05:51,361
Speaker 4: if you know, and help me through it and coach

1221
01:05:51,401 --> 01:05:53,441
Speaker 4: me through it. And I have been going through my

1222
01:05:53,521 --> 01:05:55,601
Speaker 4: own struggles and mental health. I would love nothing more

1223
01:05:55,641 --> 01:05:58,441
Speaker 4: than just call my mom up, but I don't have

1224
01:05:58,521 --> 01:06:02,081
Speaker 4: that option. And it also leaves me to sit with

1225
01:06:02,201 --> 01:06:06,121
Speaker 4: some sort of almost envy around people that still have

1226
01:06:06,201 --> 01:06:10,801
Speaker 4: their mother in their lives. So I my grieving process

1227
01:06:10,841 --> 01:06:13,961
Speaker 4: has been very up and down. Some days are better

1228
01:06:14,001 --> 01:06:17,641
Speaker 4: than not, but it kind of hits me. I had

1229
01:06:17,681 --> 01:06:20,121
Speaker 4: someone refer to it as like, you know, grief is

1230
01:06:20,201 --> 01:06:23,761
Speaker 4: like kind of throwing glitter around and expecting every piece

1231
01:06:23,801 --> 01:06:25,881
Speaker 4: not to show up later, Like you you know, you

1232
01:06:25,881 --> 01:06:27,321
Speaker 4: could be all good and then one day you vacuum

1233
01:06:27,361 --> 01:06:28,921
Speaker 4: under the couch and you find a here glitter there,

1234
01:06:28,961 --> 01:06:30,881
Speaker 4: and that's when it hits you. And I find that

1235
01:06:30,881 --> 01:06:35,281
Speaker 4: there's certain songs, there's certain smells. I might see people

1236
01:06:35,281 --> 01:06:36,921
Speaker 4: that I pass on the street that I just look

1237
01:06:36,921 --> 01:06:39,001
Speaker 4: at twice because they just remind me of mums. So

1238
01:06:40,001 --> 01:06:42,441
Speaker 4: these are the things that will continue. You know, my

1239
01:06:42,561 --> 01:06:45,641
Speaker 4: grief wul is so prolonged, and it will continue to

1240
01:06:45,641 --> 01:06:48,001
Speaker 4: be prolonged until we can actually lay her body to rest,

1241
01:06:48,041 --> 01:06:50,521
Speaker 4: and even then then I'll actually be able to sit

1242
01:06:50,601 --> 01:06:53,241
Speaker 4: down and be like, finally we did it, and I

1243
01:06:53,241 --> 01:06:55,121
Speaker 4: can also rest and relax a little bit.

1244
01:06:55,881 --> 01:06:58,561
Speaker 3: And you know what, Nikita, the reason that we keep

1245
01:06:59,041 --> 01:07:02,201
Speaker 3: fighting for the truth and fighting for answers is because

1246
01:07:02,441 --> 01:07:06,521
Speaker 3: until they're found, we are living that not knowing and

1247
01:07:06,561 --> 01:07:09,041
Speaker 3: the I don't know. It's like a rippling effect that

1248
01:07:09,121 --> 01:07:11,921
Speaker 3: runs through your body. It's very hard to move forward,

1249
01:07:11,961 --> 01:07:15,161
Speaker 3: and it's hard to sit there and take your mind

1250
01:07:15,241 --> 01:07:18,281
Speaker 3: off your mum being a missing person as remembering the

1251
01:07:18,321 --> 01:07:20,921
Speaker 3: fun times like it's actually that's actually a big challenge

1252
01:07:20,921 --> 01:07:23,161
Speaker 3: for people in our space to sit there and actually

1253
01:07:23,161 --> 01:07:26,521
Speaker 3: be able to do that and function normally at the

1254
01:07:26,561 --> 01:07:30,521
Speaker 3: same time watching all our friends and families with their mums.

1255
01:07:30,601 --> 01:07:32,041
Speaker 1: You know it is. It is difficult.

1256
01:07:32,481 --> 01:07:35,281
Speaker 3: But you know, one thing to mention, and I'm sure

1257
01:07:35,801 --> 01:07:39,841
Speaker 3: Rachel won't mind me mentioning this. I've met Rachel only

1258
01:07:39,841 --> 01:07:43,081
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, and her son Jaden Pano

1259
01:07:43,161 --> 01:07:45,801
Speaker 3: tom Sett has been missing for eight years and they

1260
01:07:45,961 --> 01:07:50,841
Speaker 3: actually located remains I think around October last year, and

1261
01:07:51,281 --> 01:07:55,481
Speaker 3: last week they've confirmed that those remains belonged to Jaden.

1262
01:07:56,361 --> 01:08:00,081
Speaker 3: Rachel's had such a big support network behind her. It's

1263
01:08:00,161 --> 01:08:02,481
Speaker 3: such a stressful thing, and I mean, it's a whole

1264
01:08:02,521 --> 01:08:06,081
Speaker 3: nother page when you've got a missing child. But you know,

1265
01:08:06,641 --> 01:08:10,441
Speaker 3: my thoughts and prayers go out to Rachel and her family.

1266
01:08:10,521 --> 01:08:12,521
Speaker 3: But I don't know about you, but it gives me

1267
01:08:13,081 --> 01:08:15,601
Speaker 3: an element of hope that you know, by doing the

1268
01:08:15,641 --> 01:08:18,641
Speaker 3: good fight that we're doing, there is a purpose for that.

1269
01:08:19,841 --> 01:08:23,081
Speaker 4: Yeah, I absolutely agree with that, And I think the

1270
01:08:23,081 --> 01:08:26,801
Speaker 4: most important thing is to not lose hope. Across the board.

1271
01:08:26,801 --> 01:08:29,201
Speaker 4: I'd probably say that to anyone that has someone that's missing,

1272
01:08:29,321 --> 01:08:32,361
Speaker 4: you know in their life, is you know how important

1273
01:08:32,401 --> 01:08:34,601
Speaker 4: that person is, And I would say just keep fighting

1274
01:08:34,641 --> 01:08:37,121
Speaker 4: for them because they obviously are not here to fight

1275
01:08:37,161 --> 01:08:40,561
Speaker 4: for themselves, and it's important to not lose hope. And

1276
01:08:40,681 --> 01:08:43,921
Speaker 4: the thing I think that's getting me through it is

1277
01:08:43,961 --> 01:08:45,921
Speaker 4: that I know that we're going to find out what's

1278
01:08:45,921 --> 01:08:49,841
Speaker 4: happened to Mom. There's not one inkling in me that

1279
01:08:50,721 --> 01:08:54,241
Speaker 4: does not feel confident in getting justice from Mom. Because

1280
01:08:54,281 --> 01:08:57,281
Speaker 4: we're just pushing too hard. We're pushing too hard. There's

1281
01:08:57,321 --> 01:08:59,521
Speaker 4: no way that we can do all of this hard

1282
01:08:59,561 --> 01:09:03,201
Speaker 4: work and you know they're not be an end result

1283
01:09:03,281 --> 01:09:05,441
Speaker 4: there like we will keep going on. Well, there is

1284
01:09:05,441 --> 01:09:08,201
Speaker 4: an end result, and it's a lot. It's a lot

1285
01:09:08,241 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 4: on families to do that, but it's.

1286
01:09:10,641 --> 01:09:15,081
Speaker 3: Important and everyone manages the stress differently. I completely get it,

1287
01:09:15,201 --> 01:09:18,641
Speaker 3: especially in this space when I'm talking to families bringing

1288
01:09:18,681 --> 01:09:21,281
Speaker 3: all of this to the surface again in the hope

1289
01:09:21,321 --> 01:09:23,601
Speaker 3: that it does good. You know, that's the whole purpose

1290
01:09:23,641 --> 01:09:27,601
Speaker 3: of trying to share these stories on this platform, to

1291
01:09:27,681 --> 01:09:30,441
Speaker 3: help bring awareness, to help find that missing piece of

1292
01:09:30,481 --> 01:09:33,841
Speaker 3: the puzzle, to help just spark someone's memory who might

1293
01:09:33,841 --> 01:09:36,321
Speaker 3: not have even spoken to police or spoken to the

1294
01:09:36,401 --> 01:09:39,841
Speaker 3: family at this point, but do know something. So that's

1295
01:09:39,881 --> 01:09:44,441
Speaker 3: what we're hoping to achieve in this space. What do

1296
01:09:44,481 --> 01:09:47,841
Speaker 3: you think has been the hardest part about living with

1297
01:09:47,961 --> 01:09:50,521
Speaker 3: your mum's disappearance and not knowing what's happened to her.

1298
01:09:51,641 --> 01:09:57,361
Speaker 4: I can't even pinpoint the hardest part of it, but

1299
01:09:58,601 --> 01:10:06,081
Speaker 4: it's just challenging. It's the feeling of I just can't rest.

1300
01:10:07,041 --> 01:10:09,121
Speaker 4: That's what's hard about it is that you know, I'll

1301
01:10:09,121 --> 01:10:10,881
Speaker 4: go about my days, I'll have really good days, I

1302
01:10:10,881 --> 01:10:12,601
Speaker 4: could have really good weeks or months, but then I

1303
01:10:12,681 --> 01:10:15,681
Speaker 4: just get hit with this massive wave of feeling like

1304
01:10:15,761 --> 01:10:18,481
Speaker 4: I need to do something, feeling like I need to

1305
01:10:18,521 --> 01:10:21,801
Speaker 4: fly to Queensland, I need to do this myself. And

1306
01:10:21,841 --> 01:10:24,121
Speaker 4: that's the hard thing is that I can. I just

1307
01:10:24,601 --> 01:10:28,281
Speaker 4: I find that I cannot relax. I know that my siblings,

1308
01:10:28,481 --> 01:10:30,801
Speaker 4: my family, we all feel the same. We feel like

1309
01:10:30,841 --> 01:10:33,121
Speaker 4: there's is there more that we could be doing and

1310
01:10:33,361 --> 01:10:37,201
Speaker 4: you're just stuck in this constant state of trying to push,

1311
01:10:37,361 --> 01:10:41,161
Speaker 4: push and then get no result, which is hard as well.

1312
01:10:41,241 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 4: So yeah, I just can't rest at the moment.

1313
01:10:44,481 --> 01:10:47,241
Speaker 1: And how are your brother and sister going.

1314
01:10:48,161 --> 01:10:50,881
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're going good. And the lovely thing is that

1315
01:10:50,921 --> 01:10:53,921
Speaker 4: we've all we all have our own lives, which is

1316
01:10:53,961 --> 01:10:57,841
Speaker 4: really beautiful. Obviously there was lots of struggles that came

1317
01:10:58,401 --> 01:11:02,561
Speaker 4: out after my mum's disappearance, but since then, you know,

1318
01:11:02,721 --> 01:11:05,201
Speaker 4: we're all all doing really well. And that's probably I

1319
01:11:05,201 --> 01:11:07,441
Speaker 4: would want them to know if she was here right now,

1320
01:11:07,521 --> 01:11:11,521
Speaker 4: is that you know we are doing well. We're okay. Yes,

1321
01:11:11,561 --> 01:11:16,161
Speaker 4: we're struggling overall, we're you know, we're still happy. We're

1322
01:11:16,161 --> 01:11:20,321
Speaker 4: still living our life. We're not letting this control our

1323
01:11:20,481 --> 01:11:23,081
Speaker 4: entire lives. Like we're still being you know, the people

1324
01:11:23,081 --> 01:11:24,001
Speaker 4: that she wanted us to be.

1325
01:11:25,041 --> 01:11:26,361
Speaker 1: She would love that, I'm sure.

1326
01:11:28,321 --> 01:11:32,481
Speaker 3: So just moving into another part of this story for you,

1327
01:11:32,721 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 3: is there are accounts of important information surfacing, for example,

1328
01:11:39,041 --> 01:11:42,561
Speaker 3: paperwork going to the coroner's court before the family was informed,

1329
01:11:42,601 --> 01:11:46,641
Speaker 3: and information being fed to media that weren't given to

1330
01:11:46,761 --> 01:11:51,441
Speaker 3: the family. How has that impacted your trust in the investigation?

1331
01:11:52,961 --> 01:11:56,361
Speaker 4: Oh? Significantly, because how can we trust that we're getting

1332
01:11:56,401 --> 01:11:59,561
Speaker 4: the same information or leads or anything that you know

1333
01:11:59,641 --> 01:12:02,881
Speaker 4: they're receiving, or if they are getting leads, what are

1334
01:12:02,881 --> 01:12:06,401
Speaker 4: they doing with them? It just leads a massive You

1335
01:12:06,401 --> 01:12:08,361
Speaker 4: should be able to lean on the police and you know,

1336
01:12:08,481 --> 01:12:11,521
Speaker 4: the investigators to do their job, but we just had

1337
01:12:11,561 --> 01:12:14,521
Speaker 4: consistent pushback over the years, especially when you know, we

1338
01:12:14,561 --> 01:12:17,481
Speaker 4: do find out things like they did release that report

1339
01:12:17,921 --> 01:12:21,121
Speaker 4: without the family's knowledge. We still don't have access to it.

1340
01:12:22,601 --> 01:12:27,641
Speaker 3: And there's incurate dates, there's incorrect names is reports. Do

1341
01:12:27,761 --> 01:12:30,921
Speaker 3: these kind of things feel like innocent mistakes or symptoms

1342
01:12:31,081 --> 01:12:34,241
Speaker 3: of a deeper investigative issue?

1343
01:12:34,401 --> 01:12:38,561
Speaker 4: I would definitely say that it's a deeper issue here

1344
01:12:39,201 --> 01:12:42,001
Speaker 4: or I'm actually in two minds about it, because I

1345
01:12:42,001 --> 01:12:44,201
Speaker 4: think there's an element of them just actually not caring

1346
01:12:44,281 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 4: enough to actually provide the right information. And also why

1347
01:12:49,801 --> 01:12:53,401
Speaker 4: is that happening, because that's a deeper issue there. You know,

1348
01:12:53,521 --> 01:12:57,561
Speaker 4: you can't be the Queensland Police releasing inaccurate information to

1349
01:12:57,601 --> 01:13:00,081
Speaker 4: the media, like it's your job to have the facts.

1350
01:13:00,321 --> 01:13:02,921
Speaker 4: So why is that not being Why is there no

1351
01:13:03,041 --> 01:13:05,841
Speaker 4: safety net throughout you know, for where someone writes up

1352
01:13:05,841 --> 01:13:07,601
Speaker 4: a post or anything to when it gets put out

1353
01:13:07,641 --> 01:13:09,841
Speaker 4: in the media. Why is there in fact checking? If

1354
01:13:09,841 --> 01:13:12,561
Speaker 4: there is fact checking, why is it not done again, Like,

1355
01:13:12,961 --> 01:13:14,641
Speaker 4: I just don't understand in any case, how they can

1356
01:13:14,641 --> 01:13:16,281
Speaker 4: be wrong information really to the media.

1357
01:13:17,241 --> 01:13:21,001
Speaker 3: And you know, for me, communication is key. What does

1358
01:13:21,041 --> 01:13:24,481
Speaker 3: communication with authorities look like for you? Are they communicating

1359
01:13:24,521 --> 01:13:25,521
Speaker 3: with you guys?

1360
01:13:25,881 --> 01:13:30,680
Speaker 4: Oh? I have never spoken to the police ever, ever either,

1361
01:13:30,841 --> 01:13:34,321
Speaker 4: I don't believe, no, never, I've never spoken to the

1362
01:13:34,361 --> 01:13:38,281
Speaker 4: police about mum's disappearance, which is funny, like you'd think

1363
01:13:38,321 --> 01:13:41,401
Speaker 4: maybe would have some sort of involvement. I don't believe

1364
01:13:41,441 --> 01:13:45,281
Speaker 4: my sister and my brother did either. None of us did.

1365
01:13:46,401 --> 01:13:48,041
Speaker 1: It's a bit mind boggling, isn't it. Really.

1366
01:13:48,081 --> 01:13:51,321
Speaker 3: You would think that they'd want to confirm some of

1367
01:13:51,361 --> 01:13:55,161
Speaker 3: their assumptions. Maybe with you guys being her children, and

1368
01:13:55,201 --> 01:13:57,881
Speaker 3: her relationship with you guys. At the point while they're

1369
01:13:57,881 --> 01:14:00,881
Speaker 3: making assumptions again about how she's feeling and what she's

1370
01:14:00,921 --> 01:14:02,761
Speaker 3: doing in life, I.

1371
01:14:02,681 --> 01:14:03,761
Speaker 1: Could probably understand.

1372
01:14:04,081 --> 01:14:06,921
Speaker 3: You were twelve at the time, they probably didn't want you,

1373
01:14:07,001 --> 01:14:09,121
Speaker 3: But now you're an adult, maybe they should be pulling

1374
01:14:09,161 --> 01:14:11,481
Speaker 3: you back in and saying, Okay, we'd like to add

1375
01:14:11,641 --> 01:14:14,281
Speaker 3: to your mum's file so that we can get your

1376
01:14:14,321 --> 01:14:17,281
Speaker 3: opinions and your understanding of what was happening at the

1377
01:14:17,321 --> 01:14:21,121
Speaker 3: time on record. So because that is important, it's very important.

1378
01:14:21,161 --> 01:14:23,161
Speaker 3: We haven't found it yet, so they still need to

1379
01:14:23,241 --> 01:14:26,281
Speaker 3: keep investigating, still need to research, need to pull in

1380
01:14:26,321 --> 01:14:29,241
Speaker 3: all those people who know something and get it documented

1381
01:14:29,281 --> 01:14:31,521
Speaker 3: properly so it's there when the time comes and we

1382
01:14:31,561 --> 01:14:31,921
Speaker 3: need it.

1383
01:14:33,121 --> 01:14:34,521
Speaker 1: What has the response.

1384
01:14:34,321 --> 01:14:37,601
Speaker 3: From police been like in recent years, especially in relation

1385
01:14:38,281 --> 01:14:40,321
Speaker 3: to you being a child at the time and now

1386
01:14:40,361 --> 01:14:43,441
Speaker 3: being an adult. Did you see a push by authorities

1387
01:14:43,521 --> 01:14:49,201
Speaker 3: increase when the podcast was launched in January twenty twenty three.

1388
01:14:49,481 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 4: No, there wasn't a lot of push from the police

1389
01:14:53,961 --> 01:14:59,001
Speaker 4: until the Under Investigation episode released. That's because there were

1390
01:14:59,041 --> 01:15:05,481
Speaker 4: so many calls coming through leeds. Obviously new information the

1391
01:15:05,481 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 4: then because it was such a massive amount of people

1392
01:15:07,801 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 4: that had watched that show that they then felt pressure

1393
01:15:11,801 --> 01:15:14,041
Speaker 4: to do something about it. So a police officer was

1394
01:15:14,161 --> 01:15:17,521
Speaker 4: assigned to you know, looking after mum's case in that time,

1395
01:15:18,001 --> 01:15:21,361
Speaker 4: and then that's where you know, he put together a

1396
01:15:21,441 --> 01:15:24,401
Speaker 4: document and then I believe presented that to the coroner.

1397
01:15:25,121 --> 01:15:26,801
Speaker 1: Doing a big TV show like that.

1398
01:15:26,921 --> 01:15:28,961
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna say, I wish they'd bring it back

1399
01:15:29,001 --> 01:15:30,801
Speaker 3: because I think it's such a great show. And I

1400
01:15:30,881 --> 01:15:33,081
Speaker 3: was so sad to hear that they had wound that

1401
01:15:33,161 --> 01:15:36,281
Speaker 3: show up because I do think it was so imperative

1402
01:15:36,321 --> 01:15:39,841
Speaker 3: and so great in so many cases. How did that

1403
01:15:40,041 --> 01:15:43,081
Speaker 3: experience feel like for you? Like, how did you cope

1404
01:15:43,081 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 3: in that experience knowing that, you know, millions of listeners

1405
01:15:45,801 --> 01:15:49,361
Speaker 3: are now hearing about your mum's case on a TV program.

1406
01:15:50,161 --> 01:15:54,361
Speaker 4: It was incredibly confronting, But I was so nervous before

1407
01:15:54,401 --> 01:15:56,201
Speaker 4: it came out. I just wanted to make sure that

1408
01:15:56,401 --> 01:16:00,680
Speaker 4: I was speaking about Mum in the light that she deserved.

1409
01:16:00,721 --> 01:16:02,761
Speaker 4: That was my number one thing going into it. I'm like,

1410
01:16:03,081 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 4: I finally have my opportunity to speak about my mum

1411
01:16:06,721 --> 01:16:09,001
Speaker 4: in a public forum where lots of people are going

1412
01:16:09,041 --> 01:16:12,800
Speaker 4: to hear it. So in fact, millions of people. I had,

1413
01:16:12,921 --> 01:16:16,481
Speaker 4: you know, my first icebreaker with Graham. He presented an

1414
01:16:16,481 --> 01:16:18,601
Speaker 4: amazing opportunity for me to work with him, and you

1415
01:16:18,641 --> 01:16:20,681
Speaker 4: would hear me on a couple of his podcasts. So

1416
01:16:21,281 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 4: I was so grateful that I had that opportunity prior.

1417
01:16:24,201 --> 01:16:26,481
Speaker 4: So it really helped me, you know, shaped me and

1418
01:16:26,521 --> 01:16:28,121
Speaker 4: you know, things I want to talk about whatnot. But

1419
01:16:28,241 --> 01:16:30,241
Speaker 4: yet I was just wanting to make sure that I

1420
01:16:30,281 --> 01:16:33,281
Speaker 4: came across in a way that was well received. And

1421
01:16:33,481 --> 01:16:35,681
Speaker 4: I thought, who better, obviously to do it than her

1422
01:16:35,721 --> 01:16:38,201
Speaker 4: own daughter. I feel like I've got my head screwed on,

1423
01:16:38,841 --> 01:16:42,081
Speaker 4: hopefully by listening to me, people don't think that, you know,

1424
01:16:42,281 --> 01:16:44,561
Speaker 4: my mom's a delusional person like her and I so

1425
01:16:44,721 --> 01:16:46,481
Speaker 4: alike in so many different ways. And I get that

1426
01:16:46,521 --> 01:16:48,961
Speaker 4: from everyone in my family, all of her friends. They

1427
01:16:49,001 --> 01:16:51,761
Speaker 4: tell me, you know, we had the same love, we

1428
01:16:51,801 --> 01:16:55,041
Speaker 4: had the same facial expressions, we talk the same, we

1429
01:16:55,161 --> 01:16:57,601
Speaker 4: act the same. So yeah, I would just hope that

1430
01:16:57,721 --> 01:17:00,681
Speaker 4: maybe people would have a look at me and innocence

1431
01:17:00,761 --> 01:17:01,841
Speaker 4: being connected with mum.

1432
01:17:02,961 --> 01:17:04,001
Speaker 1: I think that's beautiful.

1433
01:17:04,441 --> 01:17:06,201
Speaker 3: I look at you as you're talking, and I've seen

1434
01:17:06,241 --> 01:17:07,921
Speaker 3: lots of photos of your mom and I see a

1435
01:17:08,001 --> 01:17:08,681
Speaker 3: lot of you in her.

1436
01:17:08,721 --> 01:17:09,680
Speaker 1: I obviously didn't.

1437
01:17:09,441 --> 01:17:13,201
Speaker 3: Meet her, but I think you are very mature and

1438
01:17:13,361 --> 01:17:15,641
Speaker 3: very grown up for your age. I was twenty four

1439
01:17:15,681 --> 01:17:18,961
Speaker 3: when my mom went missing, and I was definitely not

1440
01:17:19,361 --> 01:17:21,481
Speaker 3: in the same headspace that you are at twenty six.

1441
01:17:21,641 --> 01:17:22,961
Speaker 1: I was not coping very well.

1442
01:17:23,001 --> 01:17:25,121
Speaker 3: So hats off to you for doing a really good

1443
01:17:25,201 --> 01:17:29,121
Speaker 3: job managing this stress of you know, being that face

1444
01:17:29,561 --> 01:17:33,161
Speaker 3: for your mom and coming through and sharing her story

1445
01:17:33,201 --> 01:17:36,680
Speaker 3: and bringing awareness to us so that we can hopefully

1446
01:17:36,681 --> 01:17:39,241
Speaker 3: help you as well. Why do you believe it's so

1447
01:17:39,281 --> 01:17:41,680
Speaker 3: important for the community to keep talking about your mom.

1448
01:17:42,361 --> 01:17:46,801
Speaker 4: I believe that there's a power in people, especially you know,

1449
01:17:46,841 --> 01:17:49,801
Speaker 4: people talking about it. I want people to be communicating

1450
01:17:49,801 --> 01:17:51,881
Speaker 4: with their families and although it's not so much a

1451
01:17:51,881 --> 01:17:54,041
Speaker 4: dinner topic, but sit down with your families and speak

1452
01:17:54,041 --> 01:17:57,641
Speaker 4: about it and get curious and ask questions, because ultimately

1453
01:17:57,681 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 4: these things are what helps get to a final result

1454
01:18:00,881 --> 01:18:03,921
Speaker 4: of a case. So if we don't talk about it

1455
01:18:04,041 --> 01:18:05,961
Speaker 4: and we let her sit in the back burner, she's

1456
01:18:05,961 --> 01:18:07,281
Speaker 4: not going to be the first thing you think of

1457
01:18:07,361 --> 01:18:10,121
Speaker 4: when you think about a missing woman in Queensland, which is,

1458
01:18:10,561 --> 01:18:12,721
Speaker 4: you know what, we're kind of working towards is that

1459
01:18:12,761 --> 01:18:15,321
Speaker 4: we want Mum's case and her name to be well known.

1460
01:18:15,321 --> 01:18:17,441
Speaker 4: We want people to be talking about it. We want

1461
01:18:17,481 --> 01:18:19,601
Speaker 4: people that are involved in the case to get scared

1462
01:18:20,641 --> 01:18:23,241
Speaker 4: and to be you know, questioning. We want other people

1463
01:18:23,321 --> 01:18:25,361
Speaker 4: that may know something to have the strength to come

1464
01:18:25,481 --> 01:18:29,241
Speaker 4: forward if there's a mountain of people behind them. So

1465
01:18:29,281 --> 01:18:31,361
Speaker 4: that's why it's important to keep talking about it.

1466
01:18:31,881 --> 01:18:33,921
Speaker 3: And it is quite stressful, isn't it. Like I'm in

1467
01:18:33,961 --> 01:18:36,601
Speaker 3: that same position. I'm putting the pressure on. I'm just

1468
01:18:36,641 --> 01:18:39,001
Speaker 3: putting little feeders out to go, yeah, we're.

1469
01:18:38,881 --> 01:18:41,081
Speaker 1: Not giving up on this. And we were talking to

1470
01:18:41,121 --> 01:18:41,881
Speaker 1: these people.

1471
01:18:41,641 --> 01:18:44,201
Speaker 3: Over here, and you know that's because I know someone

1472
01:18:44,241 --> 01:18:47,761
Speaker 3: knows something and you guys are the same, and that

1473
01:18:47,761 --> 01:18:49,801
Speaker 3: that does come with an element of stress and an

1474
01:18:49,801 --> 01:18:52,801
Speaker 3: element of you know, paranoia comes into that as well.

1475
01:18:52,841 --> 01:18:54,681
Speaker 1: Am I saying the right thing? Should I be saying that?

1476
01:18:54,721 --> 01:18:55,641
Speaker 1: What should I be saying?

1477
01:18:56,161 --> 01:19:00,001
Speaker 3: And working through that is quite challenging in itself because

1478
01:19:00,121 --> 01:19:04,321
Speaker 3: there's no handbook on dealing with those sorts of things.

1479
01:19:04,481 --> 01:19:06,041
Speaker 1: You know. I want to mention you.

1480
01:19:05,961 --> 01:19:09,761
Speaker 3: Do have a Facebook page set up called Missing Sandrey.

1481
01:19:09,321 --> 01:19:13,081
Speaker 1: And Jordan, where again going to add the link.

1482
01:19:12,841 --> 01:19:15,081
Speaker 3: To the show notes for people so they can like

1483
01:19:15,161 --> 01:19:18,521
Speaker 3: and follow, because that obviously builds a momentum as well.

1484
01:19:18,521 --> 01:19:21,121
Speaker 3: When people start doing that, the algorithm starts taking off

1485
01:19:21,161 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 3: and there's more awareness and more people finding the story

1486
01:19:24,841 --> 01:19:29,241
Speaker 3: and listening. What could our listeners today do that could

1487
01:19:29,321 --> 01:19:33,201
Speaker 3: genuinely help, whether that's sharing your story, coming forward with information,

1488
01:19:33,441 --> 01:19:38,321
Speaker 3: or pushing for a renewed official action by signing that petition,

1489
01:19:40,321 --> 01:19:40,961
Speaker 3: I would say.

1490
01:19:40,841 --> 01:19:44,401
Speaker 4: All of the above. And I just think if you

1491
01:19:44,481 --> 01:19:47,921
Speaker 4: see the posts, share the post, talk about it, we

1492
01:19:47,961 --> 01:19:50,521
Speaker 4: need to be building up some sort of media presence

1493
01:19:50,721 --> 01:19:54,201
Speaker 4: to put pressure on the police. So anything, I'm as

1494
01:19:54,241 --> 01:19:56,521
Speaker 4: a family happy to take anything, whether that's a like

1495
01:19:56,601 --> 01:20:00,001
Speaker 4: on a post, it all means you know so so

1496
01:20:00,121 --> 01:20:02,001
Speaker 4: much to us. And we're also grateful for all the

1497
01:20:02,041 --> 01:20:04,961
Speaker 4: love and support we've already received, and I just want

1498
01:20:05,001 --> 01:20:06,041
Speaker 4: to keep that train moving.

1499
01:20:07,001 --> 01:20:07,881
Speaker 1: Yeah, good on you.

1500
01:20:08,001 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 3: And look, I want to give a shout out to

1501
01:20:09,761 --> 01:20:11,041
Speaker 3: to Die Williams.

1502
01:20:11,041 --> 01:20:12,921
Speaker 1: Will probably hate me for saying.

1503
01:20:12,601 --> 01:20:14,441
Speaker 3: This because she said I don't want to shout out,

1504
01:20:14,481 --> 01:20:17,041
Speaker 3: but you know what, she's a lady that's name pops

1505
01:20:17,121 --> 01:20:19,881
Speaker 3: up all the time on Sandrine's Facebook page.

1506
01:20:20,321 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: I have messaged her back and forth from.

1507
01:20:22,481 --> 01:20:25,441
Speaker 3: Time to time about my mum and about Sandrine, and

1508
01:20:25,481 --> 01:20:27,441
Speaker 3: we sort of help each other, Like I'll post on

1509
01:20:27,841 --> 01:20:29,881
Speaker 3: Sandrin's story on Mom's page because I want to bring

1510
01:20:29,921 --> 01:20:32,961
Speaker 3: awareness to Sandrine's story as well, and she'll sometimes do

1511
01:20:33,041 --> 01:20:37,441
Speaker 3: the same for my mum as well. Di herself in

1512
01:20:37,521 --> 01:20:40,521
Speaker 3: asking her recently mentioned to me that, you know, I said,

1513
01:20:40,561 --> 01:20:42,841
Speaker 3: why are you in this space? Like what's drawing you

1514
01:20:42,961 --> 01:20:46,361
Speaker 3: in to be a part of Sandrine's story and helping

1515
01:20:46,401 --> 01:20:50,001
Speaker 3: the family, And she said, you know, she herself fully

1516
01:20:50,121 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 3: understands the trauma of having someone you care about go missing,

1517
01:20:53,801 --> 01:20:56,241
Speaker 3: and she wanted to give her spare time to help

1518
01:20:56,281 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 3: others who find themselves in that same space.

1519
01:20:59,601 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: I just want to take my hat.

1520
01:21:00,721 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 3: Off to everyone who offers helping any way, shape or form,

1521
01:21:03,801 --> 01:21:06,321
Speaker 3: because power of the people what makes a difference for

1522
01:21:06,401 --> 01:21:07,001
Speaker 3: those of us.

1523
01:21:06,921 --> 01:21:08,081
Speaker 1: Living in this missing space.

1524
01:21:08,161 --> 01:21:10,761
Speaker 3: So, you know, hats off to all of you who

1525
01:21:10,761 --> 01:21:14,521
Speaker 3: step up and come forward and help. So a full

1526
01:21:14,561 --> 01:21:17,241
Speaker 3: coronial in quest is something your family is pushing for.

1527
01:21:17,481 --> 01:21:20,881
Speaker 3: Why is this so important and why do you hope

1528
01:21:20,881 --> 01:21:26,401
Speaker 3: the coronial process or police reopening the investigation will uncover We.

1529
01:21:26,281 --> 01:21:28,361
Speaker 4: Need to get everyone in a room. We need to

1530
01:21:28,401 --> 01:21:31,241
Speaker 4: get people, you know, put under pressure. We need to

1531
01:21:31,521 --> 01:21:36,281
Speaker 4: have people questioned and leads followed through right from here

1532
01:21:36,321 --> 01:21:39,721
Speaker 4: to the end. We can't just take people's words for things, unfortunately.

1533
01:21:39,961 --> 01:21:43,841
Speaker 4: So that's why it's important, is to have a new

1534
01:21:44,281 --> 01:21:47,921
Speaker 4: lens on overseeing this case. Remove the element of her

1535
01:21:48,041 --> 01:21:51,441
Speaker 4: being you know, mentally unstable, because why does that even matter?

1536
01:21:51,841 --> 01:21:54,161
Speaker 4: Why should it matter when there's a mother that's missing,

1537
01:21:54,801 --> 01:21:56,481
Speaker 4: And these are the things that they need to look

1538
01:21:56,521 --> 01:21:58,601
Speaker 4: back and these are what we're kind of aiming to

1539
01:21:58,761 --> 01:22:00,801
Speaker 4: go to house. It's just a new lens. We just

1540
01:22:00,841 --> 01:22:02,761
Speaker 4: need some more clear eyes looking at it and then

1541
01:22:02,801 --> 01:22:03,961
Speaker 4: they can see what we're seeing.

1542
01:22:05,041 --> 01:22:09,561
Speaker 3: Wanted to ask some sensitive parts of this journey for you.

1543
01:22:09,721 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 3: When you're thinking about your mum, her role as a mother,

1544
01:22:14,321 --> 01:22:17,521
Speaker 3: her goal, her struggles. What's the one thing you most

1545
01:22:17,761 --> 01:22:19,441
Speaker 3: want the world to remember about her.

1546
01:22:20,321 --> 01:22:25,961
Speaker 4: She was a selfless human being and she would give

1547
01:22:26,081 --> 01:22:29,961
Speaker 4: anything and everything to all of those around her. She

1548
01:22:30,081 --> 01:22:33,721
Speaker 4: was constantly putting us kids first. She was just a tremendous,

1549
01:22:33,761 --> 01:22:36,521
Speaker 4: tremendous woman. She was someone that you could shoulder to

1550
01:22:36,561 --> 01:22:39,601
Speaker 4: cry and I guess I'd say to friends to family

1551
01:22:39,721 --> 01:22:42,321
Speaker 4: like she was just an amazing amazing woman. I feel

1552
01:22:42,321 --> 01:22:44,641
Speaker 4: like these qualities have been overlooked now in her case

1553
01:22:44,801 --> 01:22:47,201
Speaker 4: because it's been so honed in on her mental health.

1554
01:22:47,241 --> 01:22:50,921
Speaker 4: But she was a fantastic human being and she's very

1555
01:22:50,961 --> 01:22:54,161
Speaker 4: missed by many. She's very clever, she's very intelligent.

1556
01:22:54,161 --> 01:22:58,001
Speaker 3: She had all these amazing traits that had been overlooked,

1557
01:22:58,041 --> 01:23:01,081
Speaker 3: I feel in the case because they're focusing on one

1558
01:23:01,201 --> 01:23:03,401
Speaker 3: topic and one topic only, they're not really bringing the

1559
01:23:03,441 --> 01:23:05,761
Speaker 3: whole picture of Sandream to the fore.

1560
01:23:05,841 --> 01:23:11,841
Speaker 4: Shunt, No, they're not. And they like the amount of

1561
01:23:11,921 --> 01:23:13,761
Speaker 4: nights that Mum and I had and Mom had with

1562
01:23:13,801 --> 01:23:17,081
Speaker 4: all of us kids of us just laughing and dancing

1563
01:23:17,241 --> 01:23:21,321
Speaker 4: and singing, and it was just beautiful. And Mum was

1564
01:23:21,361 --> 01:23:25,561
Speaker 4: so creative. She was so into her aunts, love to draw,

1565
01:23:25,761 --> 01:23:28,081
Speaker 4: she loved to be outdoorsy. She was just a woman

1566
01:23:28,121 --> 01:23:30,921
Speaker 4: that just enjoyed to live her life. She wasn't wanting to,

1567
01:23:31,401 --> 01:23:33,321
Speaker 4: you know, the type of mother that we had. I'm

1568
01:23:33,401 --> 01:23:35,481
Speaker 4: very grateful for because she kept us all very active,

1569
01:23:36,281 --> 01:23:38,641
Speaker 4: always very active. She was always taking us out. So

1570
01:23:38,721 --> 01:23:42,441
Speaker 4: that's probably yet what I'd want her to be remembered

1571
01:23:42,441 --> 01:23:44,001
Speaker 4: by is who she truly was.

1572
01:23:44,441 --> 01:23:46,001
Speaker 3: It is hard being in this space a lot of

1573
01:23:46,041 --> 01:23:49,121
Speaker 3: people don't really understand it if they're not living it,

1574
01:23:49,201 --> 01:23:51,721
Speaker 3: so it's just nice we've got some other people in

1575
01:23:51,841 --> 01:23:52,281
Speaker 3: the corner.

1576
01:23:52,801 --> 01:23:55,841
Speaker 4: Definitely, I've that's sort of one thing. I've actually never

1577
01:23:56,121 --> 01:23:58,921
Speaker 4: spoken to anyone that's had a missing person, especially missing

1578
01:23:58,921 --> 01:24:01,041
Speaker 4: mother in their life. So it's just so nice to

1579
01:24:01,081 --> 01:24:03,601
Speaker 4: speak to you and see how well you're doing as well,

1580
01:24:03,801 --> 01:24:06,281
Speaker 4: kind of like mixing her like like all is well.

1581
01:24:06,321 --> 01:24:08,321
Speaker 4: You know, you's going to keep fighting and pushing, and

1582
01:24:08,601 --> 01:24:11,601
Speaker 4: you know, I'm so so so grateful for you even

1583
01:24:11,601 --> 01:24:13,761
Speaker 4: speaking about mom's case, like it means so much to

1584
01:24:13,841 --> 01:24:14,641
Speaker 4: us as a family.

1585
01:24:14,801 --> 01:24:18,881
Speaker 3: So and what would you love to be able to

1586
01:24:18,881 --> 01:24:20,760
Speaker 3: say to your mom if she were here today.

1587
01:24:22,281 --> 01:24:29,281
Speaker 4: I would probably want to say, honestly, just thank you.

1588
01:24:29,881 --> 01:24:32,481
Speaker 4: I am so appreciative of all the things that she

1589
01:24:32,521 --> 01:24:34,561
Speaker 4: has taught me, even though she hasn't been here, Which

1590
01:24:34,641 --> 01:24:36,481
Speaker 4: seems like such a funny thing to say, but I've

1591
01:24:36,681 --> 01:24:40,561
Speaker 4: genuinely learned so much about my mother since becoming, you know,

1592
01:24:40,601 --> 01:24:43,401
Speaker 4: a woman. She went me see when I was twelve,

1593
01:24:43,401 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 4: I'm now twenty six. I've learned so so much over

1594
01:24:45,681 --> 01:24:50,521
Speaker 4: the time, and she's just really helped me tremendously, so

1595
01:24:50,601 --> 01:24:52,681
Speaker 4: I would just say thank you and I love you

1596
01:24:52,961 --> 01:24:53,641
Speaker 4: and I miss you.

1597
01:24:55,041 --> 01:25:00,481
Speaker 3: I always end these podcasts Nikita with asking why our

1598
01:25:00,521 --> 01:25:01,401
Speaker 3: loved ones matter?

1599
01:25:01,601 --> 01:25:04,161
Speaker 1: Do you want to share with everyone why standream matters?

1600
01:25:06,041 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 4: Mum matters because she's our mum and she's a human

1601
01:25:11,081 --> 01:25:13,241
Speaker 4: and she I say it a lot, but she's a friend,

1602
01:25:13,761 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 4: She's an auntie too many. She's just a gorgeous human

1603
01:25:17,761 --> 01:25:22,761
Speaker 4: being and her intelligence, her creativity, her way that she

1604
01:25:22,921 --> 01:25:26,241
Speaker 4: views life needs to be remembered. And I would say,

1605
01:25:26,281 --> 01:25:30,121
Speaker 4: that's why this is important. And you know we'll find

1606
01:25:30,241 --> 01:25:32,841
Speaker 4: justice for her no matter what, We'll keep fighting. So

1607
01:25:32,921 --> 01:25:34,001
Speaker 4: I think that's what matters.

1608
01:25:37,281 --> 01:25:39,521
Speaker 2: Next week on the missing matter.

1609
01:25:40,201 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 5: As soon as you know that your person is missing

1610
01:25:45,281 --> 01:25:49,401
Speaker 5: or isn't where they should be and you are concerned

1611
01:25:49,561 --> 01:25:52,281
Speaker 5: for their safety, make a report.

1612
01:25:53,521 --> 01:25:57,561
Speaker 6: New South Wales Police had Queensland Police on their phone.

1613
01:25:58,121 --> 01:26:01,161
Speaker 6: Then New South Wales Police had me on another phone

1614
01:26:01,561 --> 01:26:05,081
Speaker 6: and I was screaming at both New South Wales in

1615
01:26:05,161 --> 01:26:09,041
Speaker 6: Queensland police because what can they do.

1616
01:26:11,921 --> 01:26:12,720
Speaker 4: It makes no.

1617
01:26:12,721 --> 01:26:17,081
Speaker 7: Sense if you have a family member saying this is

1618
01:26:17,161 --> 01:26:20,121
Speaker 7: out of character, this is not normal for my mum,

1619
01:26:20,241 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 7: brother friend, whatever, it should be taken into account more

1620
01:26:26,041 --> 01:26:27,081
Speaker 7: than it is at the moment.

1621
01:26:27,681 --> 01:26:29,761
Speaker 6: They really need to listen to the families