1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,490 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,580 --> 00:00:12,690 Sean Aylmer: Today's interview is shamelessly voyeuristic. It's all about travel and 3 00:00:12,690 --> 00:00:16,410 Sean Aylmer: all about frequent flyer points. Recently, Qantas announced a major 4 00:00:16,410 --> 00:00:19,290 Sean Aylmer: overhaul of its frequent flyer program, which is an absolute 5 00:00:19,290 --> 00:00:23,430 Sean Aylmer: behemoth of a loyalty platform. There are almost 16 million 6 00:00:23,489 --> 00:00:26,099 Sean Aylmer: members in Australia, so it can sometimes be a bit 7 00:00:26,099 --> 00:00:29,369 Sean Aylmer: hard to secure a Classic Reward seat on a Qantas 8 00:00:29,370 --> 00:00:31,620 Sean Aylmer: flight using your points. It's one of the reasons why 9 00:00:31,620 --> 00:00:35,729 Sean Aylmer: Qantas is introducing the Classic Plus program, which according to 10 00:00:35,729 --> 00:00:38,970 Sean Aylmer: the airline, will add about 20 million reward seats. These 11 00:00:38,970 --> 00:00:41,519 Sean Aylmer: can be used on international flights from July and domestic 12 00:00:41,519 --> 00:00:43,409 Sean Aylmer: later in the year. It seems like a good excuse 13 00:00:43,409 --> 00:00:45,418 Sean Aylmer: to talk about points. Not just the new system, but 14 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:47,400 Sean Aylmer: how to get the most out of your points, and 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,759 Sean Aylmer: get business class travel for less. Steve Huy is the 16 00:00:50,759 --> 00:00:56,010 Sean Aylmer: founder of iFLYflat, often referred to as the Points Whisperer 17 00:00:56,460 --> 00:01:00,510 Sean Aylmer: for his work helping businesses maximize the value of their 18 00:01:00,510 --> 00:01:03,060 Sean Aylmer: points. Steve, welcome to Fear and Greed. 19 00:01:03,450 --> 00:01:04,380 Steve Huy: Thank you for having me. 20 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:10,020 Sean Aylmer: First, let's look at the new Qantas Classic Plus scheme. 21 00:01:10,350 --> 00:01:13,770 Sean Aylmer: It sits alongside the Classic Rewards and the Points Plus 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,430 Sean Aylmer: Pay. There are now three ways to book, I think. 23 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:19,560 Sean Aylmer: How do they work? How do they differ? 24 00:01:20,550 --> 00:01:24,449 Steve Huy: Yeah, that's right. The Points Plus Pay has been around 25 00:01:24,450 --> 00:01:26,639 Steve Huy: for a while, and that in a way is the 26 00:01:26,639 --> 00:01:29,730 Steve Huy: lowest value use of points. That's when you're converting your 27 00:01:29,730 --> 00:01:35,520 Steve Huy: points into a fixed value of . 666 cents, and then 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,059 Steve Huy: you're using that towards the price of a ticket. Effectively, 29 00:01:39,059 --> 00:01:42,120 Steve Huy: it's like a flight credit and you can use those 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:45,539 Steve Huy: points to pay in any combination, whether you've got enough 31 00:01:45,539 --> 00:01:49,200 Steve Huy: points or you don't enough points. It's like a discount off your 32 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:55,380 Steve Huy: ticket. Then, what we had was Classic Reward flights, and 33 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:58,589 Steve Huy: that's the highest value use of points. That's when you're 34 00:01:58,590 --> 00:02:02,159 Steve Huy: converting your points and use them as actual frequent flyer 35 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:06,480 Steve Huy: points. The magic of that use, of tapping into a 36 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,450 Steve Huy: program where it's a fixed number of points to fly 37 00:02:09,570 --> 00:02:13,200 Steve Huy: to the same destination. Whether you are going to say, Europe 38 00:02:13,530 --> 00:02:18,209 Steve Huy: during Christmas, school holidays, peak or off- peak, it's always 39 00:02:18,210 --> 00:02:21,900 Steve Huy: the same number of points. That's awesome because you can 40 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:23,788 Steve Huy: fly for the same number of points wherever you want 41 00:02:23,788 --> 00:02:28,980 Steve Huy: to go tonight or a year away. Then, Qantas, because 42 00:02:28,980 --> 00:02:34,350 Steve Huy: there's not been that many Classic Rewards seats available, or because 43 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:39,000 Steve Huy: so many people, like those 16 million members, are all 44 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,570 Steve Huy: trying to find these limited Classic Reward seats and there's 45 00:02:42,570 --> 00:02:46,680 Steve Huy: not enough to go around, Qantas have now launched what 46 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,919 Steve Huy: they call the Classic Plus scheme. Which is a little 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:55,439 Steve Huy: bit like a rewards seat, but costing two to four 48 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:01,410 Steve Huy: times more points than Classic Rewards, but available on basically 49 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:05,010 Steve Huy: all Qantas flights. Not departments, but all the Qantas flights 50 00:03:05,250 --> 00:03:07,380 Steve Huy: after the Classic Reward seats are exhausted. 51 00:03:08,130 --> 00:03:11,429 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I'm going to start asking dumb questions here, Steve. 52 00:03:11,758 --> 00:03:15,238 Sean Aylmer: Bear with me. The points can be used in Classic 53 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,820 Sean Aylmer: Plus, in Classic Rewards, and in Points Plus. Is that 54 00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:18,150 Sean Aylmer: right? 55 00:03:18,779 --> 00:03:19,708 Steve Huy: That's right, yes. 56 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:23,700 Sean Aylmer: Okay. There's no distinction between the points, as such. Will 57 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:27,239 Sean Aylmer: it, particularly once Classic Plus is up and running ... Let's 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,929 Sean Aylmer: say I have 50,000 points and I want to use 59 00:03:30,929 --> 00:03:34,260 Sean Aylmer: that, I can do a Points Plus Pay, . 66 cents, 60 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:37,980 Sean Aylmer: I get that. I can try and find and Classic Rewards 61 00:03:38,130 --> 00:03:39,721 Sean Aylmer: flight still. Is that right? 62 00:03:39,721 --> 00:03:41,220 Steve Huy: Yes, that's right. 63 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,990 Sean Aylmer: Or, on most flights, I can use them for Classic 64 00:03:45,990 --> 00:03:50,190 Sean Aylmer: Plus. The difference being though, Classic Plus you need more 65 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:54,149 Sean Aylmer: points than you do on Classic Rewards. Have I got 66 00:03:54,150 --> 00:03:54,331 Sean Aylmer: that in a nutshell? 67 00:03:54,331 --> 00:03:57,390 Steve Huy: Yeah. Yeah, you've got that spot on. 68 00:03:57,750 --> 00:04:02,880 Sean Aylmer: Okay. That's where we stand. From Qantas' point of view, 69 00:04:03,660 --> 00:04:06,389 Sean Aylmer: why ... I'm not sure whether they're being more generous in 70 00:04:06,389 --> 00:04:09,569 Sean Aylmer: their Classic Plus scheme or not. Obviously, it costs more 71 00:04:09,570 --> 00:04:12,840 Sean Aylmer: but plenty of people have millions of points, or hundreds 72 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,970 Sean Aylmer: of thousands of points. Is it a way of just 73 00:04:14,970 --> 00:04:16,350 Sean Aylmer: getting rid of some of those points? 74 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:21,300 Steve Huy: Yeah, it's a way of just releasing that tension that you 75 00:04:21,300 --> 00:04:25,019 Steve Huy: have points but you can't use them. You can't use 76 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:29,490 Steve Huy: them to find any seats. That becomes terribly frustrating, because 77 00:04:29,490 --> 00:04:32,880 Steve Huy: you might have been earning your points over months, years, 78 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,500 Steve Huy: or hopefully not decades. Then you go, " Well, I want 79 00:04:37,500 --> 00:04:39,930 Steve Huy: to use them now, but I can't find any seats." 80 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:44,549 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I've got the seats, I know how I can 81 00:04:44,549 --> 00:04:48,870 Sean Aylmer: use them. It's going to make it easier for travelers, 82 00:04:48,870 --> 00:04:51,150 Sean Aylmer: that presumably, it will make a big difference. 83 00:04:51,870 --> 00:04:53,520 Steve Huy: It will make a big difference, but only if you've 84 00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:57,839 Steve Huy: got the points. Let's take an example of say, going 85 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,640 Steve Huy: to Europe, because Europe's very popular. For a business class 86 00:05:03,178 --> 00:05:05,969 Steve Huy: points ticket, which is the gem, which is what everyone 87 00:05:05,969 --> 00:05:10,200 Steve Huy: wants to use their points for, it costs about 318,000 88 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,099 Steve Huy: points to do a business return for one seat. Basically, 89 00:05:14,099 --> 00:05:18,809 Steve Huy: from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane to anywhere in Europe. That's what 90 00:05:18,809 --> 00:05:22,770 Steve Huy: everyone wants to find. But under the Classic Plus system, 91 00:05:23,250 --> 00:05:30,750 Steve Huy: that same seat will cost maybe 600,000 points, maybe 800, 000, 1. 92 00:05:30,990 --> 00:05:34,859 Steve Huy: 2 million. It could cost anything because the Classic Plus 93 00:05:34,860 --> 00:05:38,070 Steve Huy: scheme, the number of points required is linked to the 94 00:05:38,070 --> 00:05:41,910 Steve Huy: cash ticket price at the time. If the ticket price 95 00:05:41,910 --> 00:05:44,550 Steve Huy: is high because it's peak, then you will require more 96 00:05:44,550 --> 00:05:48,659 Steve Huy: points, whereas the Classic Rewards is always the same number 97 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:49,110 Steve Huy: of points. 98 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,450 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Steve. We'll be back in a minute. 99 00:05:58,830 --> 00:06:04,800 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Steve Huy, founder of iFLYflat. Okay, so 100 00:06:05,339 --> 00:06:08,580 Sean Aylmer: how do I do it? Is there a secret to 101 00:06:08,849 --> 00:06:12,480 Sean Aylmer: gathering points? Then making the most of my points, the 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,279 Sean Aylmer: most bang for the buck. What about gathering points? Is 103 00:06:14,910 --> 00:06:16,229 Sean Aylmer: there better ways to do that? 104 00:06:17,039 --> 00:06:22,680 Steve Huy: Yeah. Through partners is the best way. You can't just 105 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,960 Steve Huy: go buy a million points from Qantas, they'll not sell 106 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,620 Steve Huy: them to you. The only way to get large volumes 107 00:06:28,620 --> 00:06:30,870 Steve Huy: of points is through a partner or through a credit 108 00:06:30,870 --> 00:06:31,230 Steve Huy: card. 109 00:06:31,650 --> 00:06:31,859 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 110 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:38,849 Steve Huy: Partners being things like say Woolworths, Red Energy, BP. Actually, 111 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:40,650 Steve Huy: they've got heaps and heaps of partners. 112 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:40,681 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 113 00:06:40,681 --> 00:06:44,669 Steve Huy: Heaps of different brands. In credit cards, where credit cards 114 00:06:44,670 --> 00:06:48,959 Steve Huy: are offering you Qantas points for making transactions and spending 115 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,169 Steve Huy: money, those two paths are the best ways to earn 116 00:06:52,170 --> 00:06:57,270 Steve Huy: points. Small businesses or large businesses are able to earn 117 00:06:57,270 --> 00:07:00,029 Steve Huy: these points much easier because they've got bills to pay. 118 00:07:00,779 --> 00:07:04,049 Sean Aylmer: What about the idea of buying an economy seat or 119 00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:06,509 Sean Aylmer: an economy plus seat and upgrading to business class? I 120 00:07:06,509 --> 00:07:10,199 Sean Aylmer: may not need the 300,000 or the 600,000 points to go from Melbourne 121 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:12,780 Sean Aylmer: or Sydney to Europe, I might just buy the economy 122 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:17,460 Sean Aylmer: and upgrade. Is that a viable strategy? 123 00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:21,510 Steve Huy: I will say yes and no, and it depends on 124 00:07:21,510 --> 00:07:25,350 Steve Huy: where you sit in the ranking stage. 125 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:25,770 Sean Aylmer: Right. 126 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:29,910 Steve Huy: The way upgrade seats are rewarded is that, say on 127 00:07:29,910 --> 00:07:32,910 Steve Huy: a plane that's 300 people, there might only be say 128 00:07:33,210 --> 00:07:38,399 Steve Huy: five or 10 spare seats. Those 300 people probably all 129 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,830 Steve Huy: put their name down to get an upgrade. 130 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:41,220 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 131 00:07:42,420 --> 00:07:45,329 Steve Huy: Who gets it? It's not quite random, there's a ranking 132 00:07:45,599 --> 00:07:48,599 Steve Huy: algorithm and it all comes down to what status level 133 00:07:49,979 --> 00:07:54,180 Steve Huy: you are. If you're a Chairman, Platinum One, Platinum Gold, Silver, that's 134 00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:55,290 Steve Huy: a ranking stage. 135 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:55,710 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 136 00:07:55,770 --> 00:07:59,159 Steve Huy: It also depends what type of ticket you purchased, whether 137 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,789 Steve Huy: you purchased a fully flexible ticket, which is really expensive. 138 00:08:03,089 --> 00:08:05,790 Steve Huy: Most people don't buy fully flexible unless they work for 139 00:08:06,059 --> 00:08:10,200 Steve Huy: a company. Therefore, all that factors into the ranking, so 140 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,920 Steve Huy: therefore the top five people will get those five seats. 141 00:08:14,670 --> 00:08:15,660 Sean Aylmer: I haven't got a chance, Steve. 142 00:08:16,889 --> 00:08:18,149 Steve Huy: There's always a random chance. 143 00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:22,409 Sean Aylmer: There's always a random chance, that's true. Okay, if I'm 144 00:08:22,410 --> 00:08:26,910 Sean Aylmer: a traveler now, are there particular routes or times of 145 00:08:26,910 --> 00:08:29,370 Sean Aylmer: day, or something rather, that I should be thinking about 146 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:32,939 Sean Aylmer: where I'm going to do better probably with the Classic 147 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,600 Sean Aylmer: Rewards points, as you've explained it, as opposed to the 148 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Sean Aylmer: Classic Plus? Because the Classic Plus and the Points Plus are 149 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,650 Sean Aylmer: both based on the ticket price, so if I want 150 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:47,190 Sean Aylmer: to use my points, Classic Rewards, is it about looking 151 00:08:47,190 --> 00:08:49,020 Sean Aylmer: for early mornings, late night, that sort of thing? 152 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:54,750 Steve Huy: Ultimately, it's a supply and demand match. If you're looking 153 00:08:54,750 --> 00:08:58,050 Steve Huy: for seats where there's not much demand, like early morning, 154 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,679 Steve Huy: then people may choose not to book them and there's 155 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:02,610 Steve Huy: space available. 156 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:03,000 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 157 00:09:03,150 --> 00:09:05,790 Steve Huy: But the thing about points seats is it's like fishing. 158 00:09:06,270 --> 00:09:07,770 Steve Huy: That's the best way I explain it. 159 00:09:07,770 --> 00:09:08,100 Sean Aylmer: Right. 160 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:14,069 Steve Huy: Every single day, potentially every hour, the system's changing. If 161 00:09:14,070 --> 00:09:17,190 Steve Huy: there's no seats for a week, suddenly there might be 162 00:09:17,190 --> 00:09:22,440 Steve Huy: seats. Then, it's all constantly changing so there's no such 163 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:26,580 Steve Huy: easy way as just finding these special pockets because it's 164 00:09:26,580 --> 00:09:29,519 Steve Huy: literally like fishing. There could be fish at any time. 165 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,779 Sean Aylmer: Okay, Steve. I'm going to ask the same question in reverse. 166 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,569 Sean Aylmer: What are the big mistakes you see people making when 167 00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:38,490 Sean Aylmer: using points? What should I try and avoid? 168 00:09:39,090 --> 00:09:44,099 Steve Huy: Ah, yes. Good, yeah. Using the points for Points Plus 169 00:09:44,099 --> 00:09:48,328 Steve Huy: Pay are bad. Using it for gift cards or redeeming 170 00:09:48,330 --> 00:09:51,959 Steve Huy: them for a gift shop is bad because you're actually getting . 171 00:09:52,379 --> 00:09:53,850 Steve Huy: 5 of a cent less. 172 00:09:53,850 --> 00:09:54,240 Sean Aylmer: Right. 173 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:58,170 Steve Huy: Finding seats and then having a family meeting to talk 174 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:00,870 Steve Huy: about them means that, by the time you come back, 175 00:10:00,870 --> 00:10:04,290 Steve Huy: those seats will be booked by someone else who's going. 176 00:10:04,290 --> 00:10:04,291 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. 177 00:10:04,291 --> 00:10:07,770 Steve Huy: You've got to be fast on your feet. You've got to 178 00:10:08,429 --> 00:10:12,300 Steve Huy: be flexible. You might want to fly on the 4th of 179 00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:15,420 Steve Huy: July, your ideal dates, but what if there's a seat 180 00:10:15,450 --> 00:10:18,210 Steve Huy: only on the 2nd of July? You have to then decide, " 181 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,819 Steve Huy: Okay, cool. That's actually pretty good, so I'm going to book that 182 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:23,820 Steve Huy: seat." Because if you're just looking for a very, very 183 00:10:23,820 --> 00:10:27,299 Steve Huy: specific flight, then what you're trying to do in effect 184 00:10:27,299 --> 00:10:31,290 Steve Huy: is looking for ... That flight might only have 20 seats 185 00:10:31,379 --> 00:10:33,989 Steve Huy: and you're trying to find one of them, and that 186 00:10:33,989 --> 00:10:34,830 Steve Huy: is very difficult. 187 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:37,740 Sean Aylmer: You could be in New York for Independence Day, too, 188 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,871 Sean Aylmer: if you go out on the 2nd. 189 00:10:39,871 --> 00:10:42,841 Steve Huy: You could. You can leave on the 4th and arrive on the 4th. 190 00:10:42,841 --> 00:10:47,249 Sean Aylmer: Have you, in your business, found a noted uptick since Qantas made 191 00:10:48,029 --> 00:10:51,179 Sean Aylmer: its announcement a couple of, it was probably six weeks 192 00:10:51,179 --> 00:10:53,850 Sean Aylmer: ago now or thereabouts? I have thought a lot more 193 00:10:53,850 --> 00:10:56,550 Sean Aylmer: about frequent flyer points, and Jackie and I, my partner 194 00:10:56,550 --> 00:11:00,150 Sean Aylmer: and I, we've gone and signed up to Everyday Rewards 195 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:02,339 Sean Aylmer: and all sorts of things because we're talking about it. 196 00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:06,180 Sean Aylmer: We're getting you on the show here. Steve, have you 197 00:11:06,330 --> 00:11:08,968 Sean Aylmer: gotten busier since Qantas has done its thing? 198 00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:14,309 Steve Huy: Actually no, we haven't got busier because what they've done 199 00:11:14,309 --> 00:11:18,900 Steve Huy: is they said that they were going to keep their number of Classic Reward seats the same. 200 00:11:19,770 --> 00:11:23,578 Steve Huy: They're committing to your five million number of seats, so 201 00:11:23,580 --> 00:11:28,350 Steve Huy: those five million seats across all routes, partners and all classes. They 202 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:30,480 Steve Huy: said they were going to keep the five million Classic 203 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,250 Steve Huy: Reward seats. The problem with trying to find these seats has not 204 00:11:35,250 --> 00:11:39,900 Steve Huy: gone away, whereas some people have switched from trying to 205 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:43,950 Steve Huy: find Classic Rewards and booked the Classic Plus seats. I 206 00:11:43,950 --> 00:11:47,550 Steve Huy: had a client who's spending 2. 5 million Qantas points, 207 00:11:48,090 --> 00:11:52,468 Steve Huy: basically her entire points balance, to get four people over 208 00:11:52,469 --> 00:11:55,559 Steve Huy: to Europe. But that means that that will be the 209 00:11:55,559 --> 00:12:00,270 Steve Huy: end of her using points for years, because when and 210 00:12:00,270 --> 00:12:02,429 Steve Huy: how fast are you going to earn another 2. 5 million 211 00:12:02,429 --> 00:12:03,120 Steve Huy: Qantas points? 212 00:12:03,390 --> 00:12:05,069 Sean Aylmer: What's the most number of points you've ever seen a 213 00:12:05,070 --> 00:12:06,510 Sean Aylmer: client have, Steve? 214 00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:09,899 Steve Huy: Well, 40, 50 million points. 215 00:12:09,899 --> 00:12:14,490 Sean Aylmer: Oh! That's beyond me. Steve, thank you very much for 216 00:12:14,490 --> 00:12:15,510 Sean Aylmer: talking to Fear and Greed. 217 00:12:15,780 --> 00:12:16,679 Steve Huy: My pleasure, thank you. 218 00:12:16,889 --> 00:12:20,460 Sean Aylmer: That was Steve Huy, founder of iFLYflat. This is the 219 00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:22,740 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning for 220 00:12:22,740 --> 00:12:25,108 Sean Aylmer: the full episode of Fear and Greed, daily business news 221 00:12:25,110 --> 00:12:28,050 Sean Aylmer: for people who make their own decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer, 222 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:28,949 Sean Aylmer: enjoy your day.