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Speaker 1: Five Double A Knights with Matthew Pantellis. Well, we know

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Speaker 1: about the latest Optus bungle, the Triple O failure that

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Speaker 1: has caused a number of people to lose their lives

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Speaker 1: or resulted in that because family members or whoever was

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Speaker 1: calling could not get through using an Optus phone, and

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Speaker 1: so that is going to create headaches for the company

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Speaker 1: in the months to come. However, today the telco ordered

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Speaker 1: to pay a one hundred million dollar fine for what

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Speaker 1: a judge described as predatory sales conduct, often targeting vulnerable

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Speaker 1: members of the community. The a Triple C launching the

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Speaker 1: court action over behavior at stores around the country, particularly

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Speaker 1: in Mount iSER and in Darwin, where people found themselves

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Speaker 1: inquiring it for a new phone, found themselves suddenly with

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Speaker 1: a monthly bill arriving and hundreds of dollars being deducted

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Speaker 1: from their account and they'd never, to their knowledge, signed

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Speaker 1: up for that. The Federal Court has signed off on

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Speaker 1: the penalty agreed to by the telco and the Consumer watchdog.

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Speaker 1: So if we've got a company in Australia, a major

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Speaker 1: company whose name is absolute mud at the moment it

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Speaker 1: is Optus, and what does that mean for them moving forward? Well,

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Speaker 1: the man to answer that is marketing analyst and expert

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Speaker 1: Barry er Kat from Marketing Focus. Barry good evening to.

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Speaker 2: You, good man.

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Speaker 1: So this is a problem for Optus, isn't it. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's headache after headache, just piling on.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a huge problem and it's defined by your

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Speaker 2: opening comments when you said the latest Optus crisis. Oh ye,

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Speaker 2: you have one crisis. That's a crisis like you know,

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Speaker 2: two kisses and your death. That's an interesting scenario. I

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Speaker 2: went back and how ironic and how history is repeating itself.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety, yes, thirty five years ago, I was

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Speaker 2: asked to speak at the last conference for the Australian

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Speaker 2: Life Unders Association in Darwham. The conference was called the

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Speaker 2: Corroborree Convention. Now, what we were talking about is integrity,

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Speaker 2: customer service, peace of mind, purchasing authority and accountability. Now,

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Speaker 2: how telling that message was. Within six weeks a number

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Speaker 2: of life underwriters for Colonial Mutual Life did exactly the

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Speaker 2: same sort of thing in the same areas in Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory and the remote areas of Northern Territory. They went

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Speaker 2: into indigenous communities and sold life insurance policies that the

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Speaker 2: people could not understand nor could afford to pay. The

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Speaker 2: tailing message is this, those guys are no longer in

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Speaker 2: the industry, and more particularly Colonial Mutual Life. The underwriting

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Speaker 2: company no longer exists and operates in Australia. It's a

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Speaker 2: forebearing of what conceivably could be happening to optors right

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Speaker 2: at this particular point in time.

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Speaker 1: All right, how do they get through this? What should

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Speaker 1: they do? I mean, would they consider a name change

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Speaker 1: for instance?

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Speaker 2: No, I think that that official. I think that one

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Speaker 2: of the great problems is that you've got Singapore Airlines

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Speaker 2: or Singtel saying hold on, we own it. This is

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Speaker 2: an independently operated, the delegated management situation. The real problem

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Speaker 2: they've got is their number two now with the mobile

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Speaker 2: phone type of situation, they got about twenty four percent

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Speaker 2: market share, Telstra fifty seven percent in TPC around about

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Speaker 2: thirteen percent at the last problems they had. Now think

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Speaker 2: about this, this was November twenty twenty four, it's not

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Speaker 2: even twelve months ago, and there was a service disruption.

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Speaker 2: They lost between two hundred and fifty and three hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand clients. It was a huge, major problem. Now the

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Speaker 2: real problem that you've got and I think this is

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Speaker 2: what a lot of people are overlooking. When you've got

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Speaker 2: this sort of situation, there's a certain stigma that goes

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Speaker 2: with the brand. Now, whilst you can say individual consumers

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Speaker 2: will be turned off, corporation Australians will be saying, hold on,

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Speaker 2: can we be associated with this organization? And will that

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Speaker 2: association taint our image? A very cunning message because when

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Speaker 2: you were a child at school and your parents would say, Matt,

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Speaker 2: always remember you will be judged by the company you keep.

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Speaker 2: Companies are judged by the people they keep. Therefore, from

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Speaker 2: the senior management down, everyone will be under scrutiny, everyone

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Speaker 2: will be under review and their job ten you will

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Speaker 2: be very very questionable proposition because at the moment, peace

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Speaker 2: of mind purchasing is an ideal, a commendable situation, because

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Speaker 2: what value do you assigned to the brand associated with

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Speaker 2: the word optist? Very little at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well. They've had a few things that disruption and

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Speaker 1: prior to that was that hack, wasn't it where so

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Speaker 1: many customers details were were stolen and people had to

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Speaker 1: change phone numbers, they had to get new driver's licenses.

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Speaker 1: It was a Hulsha muzzle. Well, yes it is.

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Speaker 2: And then thing about banks, we don't like banks, but

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Speaker 2: we do respect banks. We don't like them because they

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Speaker 2: seem to be omnipotent and they are always putting on

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Speaker 2: charges and making record profits. But people find and this

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Speaker 2: is the Caralel, people find it very difficult and administrably

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Speaker 2: a nightmare to change accounts. So the politicians in Candra

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Speaker 2: and in Northern North Terrace in Adelaide can say, well,

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Speaker 2: it goes Just go out and do a price check

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Speaker 2: and change your accounts. It's not that easy. People don't

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Speaker 2: like to change. Consistency and continuity are the virtues values

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Speaker 2: Their people will say that's where I see a vardage

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Speaker 2: benefit and reward. So at the moment people will say

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Speaker 2: I'm reluctant to change. But in this situation, I think

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Speaker 2: it's the heralds that say it goes on, and there

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Speaker 2: does not seem to be a lesson being learned. The

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Speaker 2: old adage those who don't learn from history are condemned

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Speaker 2: to repeat it, and so the corporate history within Telstra's

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Speaker 2: ranks seems to be that no one is aware of

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Speaker 2: what's gone on before them. The precedents have been set.

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Speaker 2: The consumers are very apprehensive. They are disbelieving and they

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Speaker 2: think that a lot of the content will be coming

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Speaker 2: up for renewal will not be renewed with that brand

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Speaker 2: name called Optor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, considering you can take your phone number with you.

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Speaker 1: If I was with Optics, I'd be I'd be looking

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Speaker 1: at alternatives right at the moment personally. But the CEO,

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Speaker 1: I mean, last time, we had the CEO of Optors

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Speaker 1: resign after the breakdown that they had with our offline

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Speaker 1: for however long it was twelve hours for some people,

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Speaker 1: I think, or up to that. So their CEO quit

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Speaker 1: is and we've had the Prime Minister this time around

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Speaker 1: suggesting the CEO should step down or think about that.

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Speaker 1: He's still there. I wonderful. How long?

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Speaker 2: Well, let me say that was a very interesting statement

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Speaker 2: from a Prime minister who was in New York in

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Speaker 2: the building of the United Nations, not local making a

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Speaker 2: statement by that. I thought, wow, that is really making

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Speaker 2: a statement from the Senior Office berea in the Public

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Speaker 2: Office of Australia. The Prime Minister for suggesting that that

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Speaker 2: part of the conversation at the moment, now you know,

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Speaker 2: is it appropriate? I don't know, but it's certainly saying

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Speaker 2: that people, well, hold on. This is something we have

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Speaker 2: to contemplate because what you've then got to have is

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Speaker 2: it's all about integrity, a counterbilancy and transparency. Does it

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Speaker 2: mean that he should be saying to hold on, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to jump before I get pushed, or is it

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Speaker 2: the corporation says what if that is? Now, we do

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Speaker 2: a lot of work with corporate cultures. Corporate cultures are

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Speaker 2: about the bonding force that holds us together. It's the

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Speaker 2: pride and now pride this is the anachronym. It came

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Speaker 2: from my book to the customer service serves you right,

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Speaker 2: and pride is pride personal responsibility in delivering excellence. Have

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Speaker 2: Optors delivered excellence and has it been consistent? The question

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Speaker 2: mark would be there is probably within the ranks of Optas'

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Speaker 2: staff at the moment, very little pride. Whether it's an

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Speaker 2: acronym or whether it's the true essence of the word itself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there's that is spot on ge all right.

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Speaker 1: Now you talk about the company Optus keeps and how

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Speaker 1: people associate with the name, there has already been that

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Speaker 1: suggestion that up the stadium deserves a rebrand.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm talking to you from person. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: that is uppermost of the minds of a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: because there's a very competitive marketplace at the moment international tourism.

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Speaker 2: The results have just come out that in the last

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Speaker 2: twelve months the number of visitors international visitors coming into

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Speaker 2: Western Australia has declined. Our premium location is going to

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Speaker 2: be the source of people like Ed Sheeran coming into

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Speaker 2: Western Australia. They're going to be going to what the

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Speaker 2: prime the Premier previously, Colin Varnatt, said we should have

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Speaker 2: it as Perth Stadium. No, they went out opportunistically the

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Speaker 2: Labor government and sold the rights of that stadium to

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Speaker 2: Optors for fifty million dollars a year. People are saying, well,

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Speaker 2: hold on, is that a false economy because can we

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Speaker 2: on the international scene, nationally or locally be seen to

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Speaker 2: be associated with a brand name that is slightly tainted

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Speaker 2: at moment and therefore the kind of strategic alliance partnesses

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Speaker 2: do you want to be potentially tainted with a brand

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Speaker 2: that is questionable? That is where there is seems to

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Speaker 2: be a lack of consistency and continuity now I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying that we can be definitive, but I think it's

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Speaker 2: a reasonable proposition. And think about that part of brand marketing, Matt.

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Speaker 2: It makes it easy to make a decision because you say, oh,

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Speaker 2: I always buy that brand because I know what I'm

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Speaker 2: going to get and I know I'm probably not going

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Speaker 2: to get the best value, but I know I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to make the mistake or make a mistake in

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Speaker 2: choosing them at the moment. That would be a highly

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Speaker 2: questionable proposition with the word optus at the moment, So

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Speaker 2: people would be anxious, and there's an interesting situation. This

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Speaker 2: is not about procrastination. This is about anxiety where people say,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm not that sure that I feel as

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Speaker 2: though I can make an informed decision and I will

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Speaker 2: be confident in making that decision. And when that occurs,

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Speaker 2: the best decision to make is to make no decision

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Speaker 2: at all. And that means that Telstra, TPG and the

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Speaker 2: other brands will start to come in and say, there

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Speaker 2: is an opportunity, there is a gap, and I can

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Speaker 2: exploit that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Well, they should be doing that now. They should have

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Speaker 1: big posters up on every shop front. The Votaphone and

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Speaker 1: TPG as you say, and and Telstra inviting people to

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Speaker 1: come in and compare plans and the like. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: now we'll.

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Speaker 2: Think about the people who actually are using the Optice

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Speaker 2: network and they're saying, well, hold on, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: a big national brand, I'm a retail store, I'm a

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Speaker 2: service station network, and we have our own telecommunication networks

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Speaker 2: and platforms and we're using this network. Should it be

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Speaker 2: that we will really now start to contemplate about changing

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So I think there's going to

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Speaker 2: be a lot of phone calls, a lot of meetings

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Speaker 2: being held, and probably a lot of call centers will

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Speaker 2: be working long hours into the night talking to as

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Speaker 2: many people as possible saying, boy, have I got a

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Speaker 2: deal for you? And it's a very simple sort of decision.

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Speaker 2: And this is one time I can assure you and

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Speaker 2: your listeners, and this is a great message for anyone

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Speaker 2: running a small business. If you say that consumers are

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Speaker 2: very price sensitive at the moment, this will be a

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Speaker 2: decision that will be made not on which is the

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Speaker 2: chief priced, but which is the best in integrity, consistency,

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Speaker 2: continuity and value.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think absolutely that one hundred fine million dollar

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Speaker 1: fine for that lack of integrity in selling people phone

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Speaker 1: plans that couldn't afford and didn't know what they were

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Speaker 1: signing up for. Other companies have been signed more, haven't

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Speaker 1: they been fined more?

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Speaker 2: The am the bank in recent times? Who are going

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Speaker 2: out there raising funds doing it down in the contract

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Speaker 2: with the government, and there we are two hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty million dollars. Some people will be saying, let's take

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Speaker 2: a balance perspective of this. This is quite substantial, you know,

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Speaker 2: is it? And good you use the word. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a very significant word that you used in your

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Speaker 2: opening comments. It was unconscionable. Now, in street language, very

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Speaker 2: few people would use it. But when you go into

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Speaker 2: a court of law that has legal implications, unconsonable behavior

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Speaker 2: has legal consequences, and I think there were only seen

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Speaker 2: the first stage of the legal consequence insis of unconscionable behavior,

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Speaker 2: because that will apply to the corporation, to the officers,

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Speaker 2: and of course it's all about this situation where well

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Speaker 2: hold On, the new chief executive has only been there

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Speaker 2: a very short period of time. I would always say

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Speaker 2: to a chief executive, you can delegate authority, but you

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Speaker 2: can never delegate responsibility. It comes back to you as

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Speaker 2: the senior rank, and therefore you're going to stand be

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Speaker 2: held standing accountable. Well, it's not a matter of me

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Speaker 2: saying that I'm new to the office, because that doesn't

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Speaker 2: cut the mustard within the staff itself, because everyone who's

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Speaker 2: going to be running for the doors and protecting themselves saying,

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Speaker 2: hold on, have I got a career path of the moment. No,

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Speaker 2: everyone is accountable. Everyone is exposed quite rightly. And so

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Speaker 2: when you delegate response to your authority, always remember that

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Speaker 2: you are not delegating responsibility, and it comes back to

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Speaker 2: the senior ranks of the company.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, Well, just on banks, and you talk about

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Speaker 1: the A and Z bank and we saw was a

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Speaker 1: Westpac I think, with three thousand jobs gone, and other

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Speaker 1: banks have followed that with hundreds of jobs being cut.

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Speaker 1: We can't do anything about that, cam, I mean, we

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Speaker 1: bristle at it. We hate their huge profits, we do,

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Speaker 1: and then we see them cutting jobs and replacing people

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Speaker 1: with AI. And it's hard enough now to find a

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Speaker 1: bank brunch. And when you do, if you need to

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Speaker 1: speak to a teller for whatever reason, there's a queue

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Speaker 1: of ten people and an hour and a half's weight,

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Speaker 1: And so you know, bank's doing nobody. They're serving a

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Speaker 1: favor except ultimately themselves. And I suppose you know, you'd

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Speaker 1: say how we hate changing, and we do because we

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Speaker 1: get into the habit of knowing how the bank operates,

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Speaker 1: and we fit into their routine. Really, but we make

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Speaker 1: it our routine. But in reality it's theirs and Bob's

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Speaker 1: your uncle. Everyone's happy with that, and changing is a

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Speaker 1: nightmare because then we've got to get accustomed to a

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Speaker 1: new routine.

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Speaker 2: But I think the the message is all about loyalty.

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Speaker 2: Are people loyal to five double A or are they

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Speaker 2: of the nighttime program listening to Matt Pintalis, It comes

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Speaker 2: back to the individual. So artificial intelligence, technology, innovation, creativity

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Speaker 2: that should never replace the human quot It should compliment,

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Speaker 2: not replace people. People are the cornerstone of the emotion

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Speaker 2: and always I keep saying to this the businesses, you

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Speaker 2: can say that people are driven by price. Price is

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Speaker 2: the fourth most important thing. The single biggest influence is

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Speaker 2: about emotion. Do I feel right? Do I feel connected?

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Speaker 2: Do I feel as though I'm being heard and responded to?

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Speaker 2: And what it's all about let's push them online. While

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Speaker 2: the technology is great. I get a phone call. It

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Speaker 2: was an automated telephone call this morning, and I thought, oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: and this is an artificial intelligence message, and I'm going

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Speaker 2: to tell you how you can improve your business performance.

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Speaker 2: And an inertia call. I didn't make the phone and call.

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Speaker 2: It's exactly the same as you knocking on the doors.

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Speaker 2: Ninety eight percent of people immediately will say wrong time,

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Speaker 2: wrong service stances, wrong people. I haven't got the budget,

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Speaker 2: haven't got the time. So I hang up, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: hold on, you can do it. But it's not a

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Speaker 2: matter of because you could do it because artificial technology

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Speaker 2: is there. If you want to have loyal customers, you

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Speaker 2: make sure that there's personal customer service. Now let's have

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Speaker 2: a comparative value. Go back three years ago. The shares

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Speaker 2: of am Z were just around about twenty eight dollars

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Speaker 2: a share. NAB was about twenty four dollars. Today, NAB

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Speaker 2: shares are forty four dollars and the shares of the

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Speaker 2: am Z bank in round figures thirty dollars. So it

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Speaker 2: chowse that performance counts because the marketplace is looking, monitoring

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Speaker 2: and reflecting the value that is innate to that brand

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Speaker 2: am Z relative to NAB and when they say, well

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Speaker 2: hold on. One bank is giving personalized customer service. See

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Speaker 2: the appointment. People say to me, Barry, you've written these

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Speaker 2: two books on customer service, you do seminars and conferences.

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Speaker 2: What's lacking in customer service? One word personal? Make sure

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Speaker 2: it's personal. And so that's the sort of thing that

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Speaker 2: we've always got to remember. You can have all the

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Speaker 2: technology in the world and it will improve efficiency, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't enhance effectiveness. Communicate, interact, respond, and then people

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Speaker 2: will say that's a worthwhile relationship that I can build

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Speaker 2: to my advantage and their advantage. So there's mutual rewards

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Speaker 2: in this situation when we interact and we reach out,

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Speaker 2: connect and engage. That's the sort of thing that is

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Speaker 2: lacking and reflective of afters. Optics can be part of

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Speaker 2: a national corporation, it can be part of Singtael, the

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Speaker 2: owners can be in Singapore, it can be a global organization.

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Speaker 2: Telecommunication can have all the technology and technology in the world,

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Speaker 2: but if it's not their connecting, engaging and you know,

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Speaker 2: really responding to people, they have got very little dally

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Speaker 2: whe They've got a very tenuous hold on each and

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Speaker 2: every one of their customers.

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Speaker 1: Of this stage, Barry, it's wonderful to be able to

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Speaker 1: tap into your expertise once again. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for your time.

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Speaker 2: That has been no pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Berry, your cart marketing analyst. Marketing focus is

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Speaker 1: business and a couple of books under his belt to

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Speaker 1: boot