1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fear and Greed business Interview. I'm sure 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: al Australian workers are reporting a steep decline in productivity 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: and are less engaged as they're required to do more 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: with less. The second annual Workplace Engagement Index from HR 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: and Employee Engagement Platform Reward Gateway suggests workers priorities are 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: shifting away from pay towards other employee benefits and a 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: greater focus on welfare. I don't know how this sits 8 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: with the very clear push by companies to get employees 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: back into the office. To find out about that. Kylie 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: Green is with us, the Managing director APEC at HR 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 1: and Employee Engagement Platform Reward Gateway. Kylie, welcome to Fear 12 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: and Greed. 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 14 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: Sean so you serve one hundreds of HR professionals employees 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: across the country. Productivity is such a big issue for 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: this country at the moment. What did you find out 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: about that? 18 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really interesting. We surveyed over fifteen hundred 19 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 2: HR leaders and employees and it's the second year we've 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: done that and we've looked at people across fourteen different 21 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 2: industries and the really interesting thing that came out was 22 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 2: the tension that's experienced between organizations are looking to drive productivity, 23 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: drive performance in what is a really challenging market, and 24 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 2: actually the requirement for employees around what they're looking for 25 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 2: in terms of support and entitlements there and we're seeing 26 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: a real tension between the two. We saw, particularly what 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: we've dubbed the Year of Self for twenty twenty five, 28 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 2: we saw more requests from employees for things to which 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: you can really categorize under the work to Live focus. 30 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: Employees are asking for more flexibility, fair pay, and compensation. 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: They're also asking for more support, more recognition and reward. 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 2: On the other hand, we're seeing employers that are actually 33 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,200 Speaker 2: challenged with doing more but less. So it's a real 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: tension building between the two. 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: So, I mean, this is the second year of survey, 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: but the last twelve months there was more of them 37 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: in the Year of He's a fantastic way of thinking 38 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: about it. There's more of that, you think than previous years. Yeah. 39 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: Absolutely, We've seen a couple of things that have been 40 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: a really interesting trend. We've seen productivity drop a year 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 2: and years. So employees that were seeing they were productive 42 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: at like sixty eight set last year dropped to just 43 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: forty seven percent of employees this year, and we're seeing 44 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 2: also a drop in across the board across certain demographics. 45 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: So the things that we're seeing that are happening consistently 46 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: across the board on key metrics from employees, what we're 47 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: finding is the workplace experience is different for different demographics 48 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: of employees. So as an example, we're seeing rising burnout 49 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 2: stress and we're seeing rising levels of concern at work 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 2: from employees. But what we're seeing is that women on 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 2: whole at twelve to sixteen percentage points higher than men. 52 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,080 Speaker 2: We're also seeing those with less experience in the workforce, 53 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 2: so particularly our gen z's, our millennial employees actually experience 54 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 2: higher levels of burnout and stress than what we're experiencing 55 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 2: across gen X and baby boomers. And so what we're 56 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 2: seeing across the survey results is people having a requirement 57 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: for greater levels of support at work, and particularly those 58 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 2: with the least years of experience are particularly looking for 59 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: more support at more flexibility, and also more opportunities for 60 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: learning and development to help them navigate what is more 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 2: complex environment than what we've seen previously. 62 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: I wonder whether gen X's and baby boomers aren't necessarily 63 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: well equipped to provide that to Gen zters and others 64 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: simply because they didn't have it themselves right. 65 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: And the workplace is evolving so much. Within two years 66 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: we're going to see Gen Alpha enter the workforce, so 67 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: you know where you're going to then have, for the 68 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: first time in history, five generations in the workforce. And 69 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 2: so when you think about managers, the opportunity to equip 70 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: them to be able to provide a personalized and a 71 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 2: meaningful employee experience across five generations is something that we 72 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: haven't done before. And when you consider that so many 73 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 2: managers are first time managers, we've really got this whole 74 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 2: group of middle managers who are in a really challenging position. 75 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: On the one hand, we're asking them to drive productivity performance, 76 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: which we need so critically within both our organizations, within 77 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: the nation as a whole, to maintain the rising cost 78 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 2: of living, to approve real wages and all of that. 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 2: But on the other hand, many of these managers haven't 80 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: had the level of training and support to be able 81 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 2: to be well equipped, to be able to navigate a 82 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: more complex environment, and to be able to support employees 83 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: with very different needs across five different generations. So it's 84 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: an interesting time. And what we're seeing is the most 85 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: innovative organizations are tackling that head on and they're the 86 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 2: ones that really leading the way. And it's only about 87 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 2: thirty one percent of organizations employees that have actually said 88 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 2: their leaders are well equipped to recognize them and to 89 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: support them and to support their contribution, which is obviously 90 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 2: we're seeing directly lead to productivity results within those organizations. 91 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: I just want to take you very quickly back to women. 92 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: You said we're more likely to stuff a burnout too. 93 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 1: Is there a reason for that? I mean, it's a 94 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: dreadful statistic if that's the case. 95 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a really significant difference between the 96 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 2: experience of work. And one of the things that came 97 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 2: through in the researching in the themes is that we're 98 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: seeing that for many workplaces, the benefits were established at 99 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: a different time, and we're seeing many women that are 100 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 2: obviously taking on increasingly big roles within their organization, but 101 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: the same time have many high degrees of non paid 102 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: work caring duties for families and the like. And so 103 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: what we're seeing is as workplaces are asking their employees 104 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: to do more with less. As people are taking on, 105 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 2: we're seeing a lot of shrinking of sizes of organization 106 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 2: with increasing scope of roles within employees. We're seeing the 107 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: challenge and the rising tension of employees trying to juggle that, 108 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: and the impact of that we're seeing is on burnout 109 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: and stress, which ultimately is impacting productivity performance. And because 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: of that, we're seeing some sixty percent of employees considering 111 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: leaving now, they're not quite leaving yet. If you look 112 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,919 Speaker 2: at the turnover rates within Australia, people are considering it, 113 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: but they're not quite walking out the door. When you 114 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: consider the financial climate, we think that's got a lot 115 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: to do with employees staying put in the current market. 116 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: But as the economy strengthens, there is a real risk 117 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: to employers that their top talent won't remain with their 118 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 2: organization and it provides quite a competitive risk to the 119 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: productivity and the performance results that organizations, particularly those that 120 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 2: are looking to grow I try to achieve. 121 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: Kylie will be back in a moment. I'm speaking to 122 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: Kylie Green from Reward Gateway. Something girls which I think 123 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: is really interesting that's come out of your work is 124 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: the fact that money isn't I know the money is 125 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: king or not. If it is king, it's not quite 126 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: as powerful as it used to be, Kylie. 127 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so money isn't everything. Money is obviously important, and 128 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: one of the things we see is that people rank 129 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: competitive compensation as an important but it actually raks third 130 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: in the thing that drives employees engagement and productivity. So 131 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: while we're looking at cost of living and fair pay 132 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 2: and benefits expected as an entitlement for everyone, it was 133 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: really interesting to see that two things outranked that. The 134 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: first thing was reward and recognition that rose ten percentage 135 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: points from last year's survey. And what we're seeing is 136 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 2: particularly employees that are working in frontline workforces are crying 137 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: out for more recognition for their contribution. We're also seeing 138 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: that younger demographics are looking for greater moments of recognition 139 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 2: a greater visibility from their organizations as well. The second 140 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 2: thing that we're seeing outside of pay is supportive managers 141 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: and leaders. Seeing the role of managers and leaders evolve 142 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: within organizations and people are not only choosing the company, 143 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: but particularly choosing the leader. And the level of support 144 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: for leaders. Now that's a really challenging statistic that being 145 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 2: number two for what employees rank. Interestingly, when we surveyed 146 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 2: people and culture leaders, so HR leaders that actually jumped 147 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: from third place last year up to first place this year. 148 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: And the reason behind that is we're seeing time and 149 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,679 Speaker 2: time again that HR leaders recognize that their mid level 150 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: managers are the key to delivering the growth of their business. 151 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 2: They realize that they need a great leadership bench and 152 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 2: for those employees to be able to have that recognition, 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: the employees crave that requires great leaders to shine the 154 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: spotlight on the performance and behaviors that they'd like to 155 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: see repeated in the organization. 156 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: So if we think about year of the self recognition 157 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: being all important, more so than money, the need for 158 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: good middle management in a sense, it doesn't surprise me, 159 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: but it seems that they're not things that in previous 160 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: decades have actually been followed necessarily by workplaces in Australia. 161 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think what we're seeing is the world of 162 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 2: work is evolving quite significantly and that's really been accelerated 163 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: since the pandemic, and particularly when you think about managers, 164 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: the world of work has evolved around what we're asking 165 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: of managers. Managers obviously previously were managing communication, they were 166 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 2: managing process and outputs. Nowadays, we're asking a lot of 167 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 2: our managers. We're asking them to have a level of 168 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: competency that we've never had before as the world of 169 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 2: work evolved. So they are focused on agile leadership, they're 170 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 2: focused on emotional intelligence, They're focused on supporting employees to 171 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: drive through what is a really fast piece of change 172 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: and encouraging their employees to do more with less. So 173 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: the world of work has evolved. Now what we're asking 174 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 2: our leaders to do is to be able to take 175 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: those employees on that journey, to be able to drive 176 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,679 Speaker 2: increase performance, be able to deliver that within their organization. 177 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: And I think where middle managers, particularly in this evolving 178 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 2: world of work have actually got a really challenging time 179 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 2: is the rising dual tensions of organizations in a software 180 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: economy that need to obviously drive efficiency, drive productivity, drive performance, 181 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: become more effective and do more with less. On the 182 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: other hand, employees who have realigned their cultural expectations of 183 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 2: what they're willing to contribute or what the world of 184 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: work looks like, moving more to that year of self 185 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 2: where there is more of a mindset of working to 186 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 2: live and so there's a real tension between those two. 187 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 2: And I think what we're seeing is the most innovative 188 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: organizations are actually tackling that head on and they're seeing 189 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: it as an opportunity of not being a zero subgame, 190 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: but being able to actually create an environment where they 191 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: recognize the base needs if you think of Maslow's hierarchy, 192 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 2: and if those base needs need to be met around 193 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 2: how do you support employees for their individual needs and 194 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 2: actually taking that off the table. And once they do 195 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 2: that and that stops being a disruption to employees thoughts 196 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 2: and focus, they're allowed to actually support their employees and 197 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 2: they're empowered to support their employees to look up and 198 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 2: to look out and to consider how they can actually 199 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 2: contribute in a more meaningful way and bringing their attention 200 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: to a bigger purpose amongst the organization. Because of that, 201 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 2: the organizations we're seeing do that well, they're actually driving 202 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 2: more incremental contribution for their people and actually that's flowing 203 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: through to more bottom line results plenty. 204 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: And that Kylie, thank you for talking to Fear and. 205 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 2: Greed lovely to be here, Thanks for your time. 206 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: That's Kylie Green, Managing Director APEC at hr and employee 207 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: engagement platform, reward Gateway. This is the Fear and Greed 208 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: Business Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode 209 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: of Fear and Greed, the daily business news for people 210 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: who make their own decisions. I'm chanellem Enjoy your day.