Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
Speaker 2: Good Evening. Well in breaking news. Just moments ago, black
Speaker 2: smoke came out of the Sistine Chapel. You can see
Speaker 2: live vision on your screen now. Now black smoke means
Speaker 2: the cardinals in conclave have not elected a pope. This
Speaker 2: is the third vote in two days where a pope
Speaker 2: has not been elected. We'll take you live to the
Speaker 2: Vatican with our reporter Stouts Butler for the breaking news
Speaker 2: and what this means. Shortly. Also coming up in the show,
Speaker 2: Jacinta Nampa jimper Price has defected to the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why she should be Australia's next Liberal
Speaker 2: Prime Minister. Plus we'll get reaction to her move from
Speaker 2: National Senator Matt Canavan in a moment, and former Labor
Speaker 2: senator and hero Nova Paris would join me live to
Speaker 2: celebrate the end of Adam Band's political career. Today he
Speaker 2: finally conceded and now he exits stage. Left Nova Paris
Speaker 2: up soon. Plus how disunity is already consuming the Albanezy
Speaker 2: government just five days after their landslide win. Mark Drafers
Speaker 2: and Ed Husick are set to be dumped. I'll bring
Speaker 2: you Paul Keating's comments about this shortly, but first tonight
Speaker 2: to the good news. Well, we've been speaking on the
Speaker 2: show this week about how just Center Namba Jimpa Price
Speaker 2: needs to move to the Liberal Party and into a
Speaker 2: Lower House seat to position herself for a future run
Speaker 2: at the leadership, and today Jacinta announced her intention to
Speaker 2: join the Liberal Party.
Speaker 3: It is a decision that I've thought a lot about,
Speaker 3: and firstly, I guess I've always felt like the Liberal
Speaker 3: Party room is my natural home. Given you know, the
Speaker 3: Liberal Party is the Freedom Party, the party of responsibility. Now,
Speaker 3: given the current circum stances, I think now more than ever,
Speaker 3: when it's strong people within the Liberal Party, we need
Speaker 3: to be able to rebuild.
Speaker 2: Now, I can tell you that it's most likely Center
Speaker 2: Price will be the deputy leader with Angus Taylor as
Speaker 2: the leader. But I can also tell you that she
Speaker 2: hasn't ruled anything out when it comes to the leadership.
Speaker 2: She hasn't ruled out running as leader. Now, the Liberal
Speaker 2: Party convention is that you can't lead the party from
Speaker 2: the Senate or from the Northern Territory for that matter,
Speaker 2: but it's not a hard and fast rule. An opposition
Speaker 2: leader could sit in the Senate, but a prime minister
Speaker 2: must sit in the lower House. So if Jacenter was
Speaker 2: opposition leader from the Senate, she then need to run
Speaker 2: for a seat at the next election or in a
Speaker 2: by election if one came up. But even Jacenter's biggest
Speaker 2: backers in the Liberal Party, and I've spoken to some
Speaker 2: of them today, well their view is that she isn't
Speaker 2: quite ready yet to be leader and that she should
Speaker 2: run for the deputy leader position now and build her experience.
Speaker 2: The leadership candidates as we speak are still Angus Taylor
Speaker 2: and Susan Lee, and it's understood Jacinta would be on
Speaker 2: a ticket with Angus and she's quite happy to be
Speaker 2: his deputy now. One argument that's running against Angus Taylor
Speaker 2: as leader is that he opposed Labour's tax cuts. As
Speaker 2: you know, that was a suicidal decision for the coalition.
Speaker 2: Well I've been told that it was actually a decision
Speaker 2: taken by Peter Dutton and Susan Lay in the afternoon
Speaker 2: of budget lockup, and Angus Taylor, I'm told, actually argued
Speaker 2: against it in that internal meeting but ultimately had to
Speaker 2: accept their decision and then publicly argue the case. But
Speaker 2: back to Jacinta. So she will at this point most
Speaker 2: likely be Angus Taylor's deputy. But if she performs well,
Speaker 2: and I'm sure she will, there's the option to move
Speaker 2: her to a Lower House seat and from that position
Speaker 2: she could run for the leadership of the Liberal Party. Now,
Speaker 2: in my view, Giacenta would be a visionary choice as
Speaker 2: Liberal leader. She would truly be modernizing the party and
Speaker 2: who wouldn't get behind her? And it would beat the
Speaker 2: Labor Party at their own game. Labor would have a
Speaker 2: white old man in Anthony Albanezi running against a young
Speaker 2: female an indigenous Leadercina brings excitement and energy to the
Speaker 2: Liberal Party. If elected by Australians, Jacenta would be Australia's
Speaker 2: first Indigenous Prime minister. It would neutralize a lot of
Speaker 2: the concerns about the coalition. Labour couldn't run their typical
Speaker 2: scare campaign claiming the Liberal Party has a problem with
Speaker 2: women or that it's out of touch. Now everyone Acceptsenta
Speaker 2: Nabajimpa Price is a once in a generation political talent.
Speaker 2: It's a point Alexander Downer, a former Foreign minister, made
Speaker 2: on Chris Kenny earlier this evening.
Speaker 4: She's fearless. She absolutely goes out and makes her arguments
Speaker 4: unapologetically and with great determination. I think she's one of
Speaker 4: the most important center right politicians in Australia of her generation.
Speaker 4: And the fact that she could end up by being
Speaker 4: the dignity leader of the Liberal Party, which on the
Speaker 4: basis of the media is a possibility, is a very
Speaker 4: very good sign for the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you what, there would be a lot
Speaker 2: of media commentators endorsing Jacinta as leader. Ray Hadley already
Speaker 2: did it on this show earlier this week. I think
Speaker 2: the perfect combination would be Jacinta as leader and James
Speaker 2: Patterson as a deputy. He has in depth experience in
Speaker 2: national security and defense portfolios. He's got extremely strong policy substance,
Speaker 2: he has young children. He's in the Senate, so he
Speaker 2: doesn't have an interest in running for the leadership or
Speaker 2: moving to a House of Representative seat, and just Center
Speaker 2: and James are good friends. You can see a picture
Speaker 2: the Senator James Patterson posted today on his social media page.
Speaker 2: And Patterson was among those who helped convince you Center
Speaker 2: to move to the Liberal Party, along with Tony Abbott
Speaker 2: and Claire Chandler. Now. In her interview with Peter Kredline
Speaker 2: earlier this evening, just Enterprise said that she's not limiting
Speaker 2: herself when it comes to leadership ambitions.
Speaker 3: I will not put any limitations on myself and ultimately,
Speaker 3: again I guess I've always been led by the Australian
Speaker 3: people and will continue to do so.
Speaker 2: And Justina's personal story of overcoming adversity is simply incredible.
Speaker 2: She told it in her book last year, Courage, to
Speaker 2: detail her struggles and her life of hardship. She embodies aspiration.
Speaker 2: She's the quintessential Australian, proud of our country and proud
Speaker 2: of what we can achieve collectively. And she's already proven
Speaker 2: to the country that she's a terrific campaigner and a
Speaker 2: tough politician. Her stance during the Voice was one of
Speaker 2: the reasons voters went against Albanese's proposition. So it's terrific
Speaker 2: that she's moving to the Liberal Party. But my message
Speaker 2: to Jacinta tonight is don't run as deputy, run as leader.
Speaker 2: The Liberal Party has been crushed, decimated and it doesn't
Speaker 2: need more of the same. It needs total renewal with
Speaker 2: fresh ideas and a fresh face and there's no better
Speaker 2: person to do that than Jacinta Nampajim for price. Now
Speaker 2: to more good news today, Adam Bant finally conceded he
Speaker 2: had lost his seat of Melbourne, although it was a
Speaker 2: rather odd concession speech that accepted no responsibility for his
Speaker 2: extremist politics that led to his defeat. Instead, he blamed
Speaker 2: the Liberals and One Nation for daring to preference the
Speaker 2: Labor Party. I mean, it's incredible that bound has suffered
Speaker 2: around a nine percent swing against him on a two
Speaker 2: party preferred basis, and he still refuses to acknowledge that
Speaker 2: the reason he lost was because of his own divisive
Speaker 2: brand of politics. He represented hatred, racism, division and anger,
Speaker 2: everything that Australians reject. At a time when Jewish Australians
Speaker 2: were being vilified, he jumped on board and made false
Speaker 2: accusations of a genocide in Gaza and encouraged the Pylon
Speaker 2: against Israel. And he continued with some of those offensive
Speaker 2: messages today and.
Speaker 5: Also particularly thank everyone who had the courage to speak
Speaker 5: up against the invasion of Gaza and spoke out for
Speaker 5: peace in Palestine. And I think as we see events
Speaker 5: continue to unfold and continue to unfold, in the most
Speaker 5: tragic way. This is a massive moment of humanity and
Speaker 5: we have been really proud, and I've been really proud
Speaker 5: to continue to push for a just and lasting peace
Speaker 5: for the people of Palestine and Israel, which is going
Speaker 5: to be based on an end to the invasion and
Speaker 5: an end to the occupation.
Speaker 2: And that right there was the problem under Bounced leadership.
Speaker 2: The Greens weren't an environmental party that cared about trees,
Speaker 2: koalas or forests. He was fighting for Gaza controlled by
Speaker 2: the terror group a muss. It wasn't fighting for Australians
Speaker 2: and certainly not for Jewish Australians. And Peter Darton was
Speaker 2: under no illusions about why Adam Bant lost writing on
Speaker 2: social media. No spin by Adam Bant can change the
Speaker 2: reality that he and other Green members lost their seats
Speaker 2: because of their appalling treatment of the Jewish community. Australians
Speaker 2: were rightly disgusted at their behavior. We were proud to
Speaker 2: preference the Greens last, helping to ensure Adam Bant's loss,
Speaker 2: and that's one victory. Dunnan can certainly be proud of
Speaker 2: preferencing the Greens last, and I hope this is a
Speaker 2: tradition the Liberals continue to ensure an anti Semitic party
Speaker 2: has no place in Australia's House of Representatives. Albinizi as well,
Speaker 2: is happy to see the backer Green's leader Adam Bant,
Speaker 2: although the Greens are upset that Albaneze has gloated over
Speaker 2: their demise, with Max Chandler Mather complaining that Albanezi was
Speaker 2: too unkind. He wrote on x I feel like the
Speaker 2: PM launching into another attack on someone who isn't even
Speaker 2: in Parliament rather than celebrating a historic win. Proves my point,
Speaker 2: which is this is how the political class treats people
Speaker 2: who fight for renters and real change. And he said
Speaker 2: compare this to his kind words for Dutton. But the
Speaker 2: point is when you're part of an extremist and racist party,
Speaker 2: you can't expect anyone to mourn you or be upset
Speaker 2: when you're gone. And Ben Fordham today described him as
Speaker 2: a sore loser.
Speaker 1: Anthony Alberanezi is right.
Speaker 6: Max Chandler May though, was tough as nails one minute
Speaker 6: and running off to mum the next.
Speaker 2: And there are also some Greens influencers who are so
Speaker 2: out of touch with reality that they're claiming the Greens
Speaker 2: actually did well.
Speaker 7: For all the freaky little widos on the internet saying
Speaker 7: that people are leaving the Greens in high numbers, that
Speaker 7: just simply isn't true. As we can see here, the
Speaker 7: Greens have secured the highest ever vote in history.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not.
Speaker 8: Even mad about Adam losing his seat, and I'm pretty
Speaker 8: sure Adam's not even mad about it either. I think
Speaker 8: out of this whole situation, it was really good to
Speaker 8: keep Thatt now and what we actually did see is
Speaker 8: an increase in primary votes for the Greens.
Speaker 9: I'm seeing so many insane headlines like Greens crash out
Speaker 9: and like dismal results for Greens and step back, look
Speaker 9: at the big picture. Oh my god, even just with
Speaker 9: the Senate, like we have come so far this vote.
Speaker 2: No, like you have not come so far. Instead of
Speaker 2: listening to those influencers who have lost touch with reality,
Speaker 2: the message for the Greens should be that they need
Speaker 2: to drop their extremist and anti Semitic positions and this
Speaker 2: should be a lesson for all in the Parliament. Now,
Speaker 2: it hasn't even been a week since Labour's shock landslide
Speaker 2: when and already they're fighting over the spoils of office.
Speaker 2: It seems unity was just skin deep. There's a push
Speaker 2: now to dump Attorney General Mark Dreyfus from cabinet ed
Speaker 2: Husick two. A Labour source told the Australians Greg Brown
Speaker 2: today that Drefus is fighting back against the attempts to
Speaker 2: remove him. Now right wing faction bosses and this includes
Speaker 2: the Deputy Prime Minister Richard Miles, a keen to replace
Speaker 2: Drefus with another Victorian Right MP and if Drafus is
Speaker 2: truly furious about this, if he is dumped, he could
Speaker 2: even quit parliament and cause the by election in his
Speaker 2: Victorian seat of Isaacs now Albanize. He also wants to
Speaker 2: add another politician from his Socialist Left action to his government,
Speaker 2: which as you know, is itself a radical left proposition.
Speaker 2: And then the New South Wales right of the Labor
Speaker 2: Party is under pressure to dump one cabinet spot. So
Speaker 2: this would mean that a high profile figure would lose
Speaker 2: their job and those who could be demoted include Chris Bowen,
Speaker 2: ed Husick, Tony Burke or Jason Claire. And the reports
Speaker 2: are tonight that ed Husick is most likely to be dumped,
Speaker 2: and Husick has been critical of Albanezi personally, and he
Speaker 2: certainly isn't seen as a loyal figure towards the Prime minister.
Speaker 2: But this is quite the surprise because many Labour figures
Speaker 2: assumed that ed Husick would be promoted in this second
Speaker 2: term along with paramatt A and P Andrew Charlton. And
Speaker 2: you've got to say he's the most overqualified backbencher in
Speaker 2: Australian political history. Victorian Right and P Sam Ray and
Speaker 2: Daniel Malino might be elevated to cabinet along with Tim
Speaker 2: Ayres or Jess Walsh from the Left faction. Now what
Speaker 2: you need to understand is there will be noses out
Speaker 2: of joint and so you can expect disgruntled politicians to
Speaker 2: cause some trouble for the Prime minister. This at least
Speaker 2: will keep him on his toes. For all of us,
Speaker 2: it'll be fun to watch. But Albinizi is trying to
Speaker 2: keep a lid on all this in fighting. He claims
Speaker 2: his party room is operating with humility and solidarity, and
Speaker 2: that's quite funny because there's an intense level of squabbling
Speaker 2: over cabinet positions that is simply astounding. Just five days
Speaker 2: after one of the great election victories for the Labor Party.
Speaker 2: Alberiziosa today said he was set to speak with King Charles.
Speaker 2: He's planning a trip as well to Washington next month
Speaker 2: to meet with Donald Trump. The US President was waiting
Speaker 2: for the outcome of this election before investing any more
Speaker 2: time in Albanizi or even bothering to set up a
Speaker 2: phone call with him, and despite claiming he'd never heard
Speaker 2: of Peter Dutton. Albanese's winners certainly not the outcome Trump
Speaker 2: would have been hoping for, but the chaos of the
Speaker 2: trade tariffs is partly to blame for the size of
Speaker 2: the coalition's defeat, given Labour successfully linked Dutton to Trump
Speaker 2: in the campaign. Now, Albanesi will also go to the
Speaker 2: g seventh summit in Canada and Indonesia next week to
Speaker 2: meet with Proboo Subianto. Albanizi did this in his first
Speaker 2: term as well. You'll recall he spent much of that
Speaker 2: first year overseas, disconnected from Australia, and it's when his
Speaker 2: popularity was the highest when he was out of sight.
Speaker 2: And in reality, you've got to say, if Australia can
Speaker 2: be an albow free zone as much as possible, I'm
Speaker 2: all for it, all right, Let's cross live to the
Speaker 2: Vatican now, where black smoke came out of the Sistine
Speaker 2: Chapel just moments before, indicating the cardinals failed to secure
Speaker 2: a new pope. But this is only the conclave's third
Speaker 2: round of voting, and it is normal to have not
Speaker 2: elected a pope at this stage. In fact, it once
Speaker 2: took nearly three years. Let's go live to Sky News
Speaker 2: reporter Stas Butlers. Stas, thanks so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: So this is disappointing. We all had our eyes glued
Speaker 2: on that chimney to see if white smoke would come out.
Speaker 2: What's been the reaction from the crowd waiting.
Speaker 10: Well, there was a huge cry that went up for
Speaker 10: the tens of thousands of people who've gathered here in
Speaker 10: Saint Peter's Square, all eyes glued on a tiny chimney.
Speaker 10: This's just out of view over my right shoulder here
Speaker 10: to the right of the Basilica as you look at it,
Speaker 10: the roof of the Sistine Chapel where that black smoke
Speaker 10: emerged about half an hour ago. We weren't you know,
Speaker 10: as you said, it would be quite an early vote
Speaker 10: for them to for the cardinals one hundred and thirty
Speaker 10: three of them gathered in the Sistine Chapel to reach
Speaker 10: a two thirds majority needed to elect a pope at
Speaker 10: this stage. But that said, the last two conclaves finished
Speaker 10: on the second day, so it's not out of the
Speaker 10: realm of possibility that we could have a pope here
Speaker 10: by this evening. And I think that when this evening
Speaker 10: comes around and we have the next two voting this afternoon,
Speaker 10: there's going to be even more people gathered here as
Speaker 10: people get off work.
Speaker 2: Stats are we're hearing any more? Have there been any
Speaker 2: leaks perhaps about who the leading contenders are?
Speaker 10: Well, I mean, the nature of conclave is certainly the
Speaker 10: designed to prevent against any of those kinds of leagues.
Speaker 10: They've combed the Sistine Chapel, they've checked it for bugs.
Speaker 10: There's mechanism in place to stop electromagnetic signals, to stop
Speaker 10: any kind of radio signals. They really really the intent
Speaker 10: is to cut off cardinals completely from the outside world,
Speaker 10: not only them, but also the people, the necessary staff
Speaker 10: we were looking after them, cooks, cleaners and so on.
Speaker 10: They've also been sworn to secrecy, So no sign in
Speaker 10: the past few days about who those front runners might be.
Speaker 10: There's a lot of speculation before the conclave began. The
Speaker 10: two front runners frequently named by everyone, the Vatican Scutory
Speaker 10: of State at Pietro paroline who's seen as a kind
Speaker 10: of steady hand an Italian diplomat. The other a man
Speaker 10: known as the Asian Francis, the Filipino Louis Antonio Tagli,
Speaker 10: former Archbishop of Manila. But there's a saying here in Rome,
Speaker 10: he who enters conclave as a pope, meaning as a
Speaker 10: front runner, leaves a cardinal. And there've been certainly a
Speaker 10: lot of surprises in the past, so don't be a
Speaker 10: surprised at all of the person who walks out on
Speaker 10: that central balcony behind me on Speter Basilica is someone
Speaker 10: who we weren't expecting at all.
Speaker 2: Indeed, all right, Stash really appreciate that update from us
Speaker 2: live in the Vatican City. All right, let's bringing now
Speaker 2: Liberal leader in Wa Basil zemplus the National Senator Matt
Speaker 2: Canavan our regular Thursday panel. Great to see you both. Matt,
Speaker 2: I want to get your reaction first, you as delighted
Speaker 2: as I am. Just Enterprise has defected to the Liberal
Speaker 2: Party and might now be in a leadership position.
Speaker 6: Well, I think you might need to cool your jets
Speaker 6: on that, Shari. And look, it's very sad because I
Speaker 6: think Justin's done enormous damage to her reputation. I've had
Speaker 6: enormous being inundated with feedback from people from the Northern Territory,
Speaker 6: very upset. She hasn't spoken to members up there who
Speaker 6: elected her, hasn't spoken to the party, hasn't spoken to
Speaker 6: her colleagues in Canberra about this.
Speaker 1: And keep in mind, everybody, when you get into parliament, Shari,
Speaker 1: you don't do it on your own. Just said.
Speaker 6: It's very talented, but you do it with a team
Speaker 6: of people that support you but take you through the
Speaker 6: hard times. And she hasn't even had the decency to
Speaker 6: speak to those people in the Northern Territory. It was
Speaker 6: only a week ago she was elected as a member
Speaker 6: as a senator.
Speaker 1: She's actually not yet elected.
Speaker 6: I haven't finished counting, but she's going to be elected
Speaker 6: as a senator sitting in the National's Party and that's
Speaker 6: what she stood at the election for. And I don't know, Shari,
Speaker 6: how you can go to the people one week and
Speaker 6: say I'm going to represent this party in the Nation's
Speaker 6: Deparliament and then the very next week turn around, so
Speaker 6: I actually I've changed my mind going to go a
Speaker 6: different side. It's like changing teams on the football field
Speaker 6: after the whistle has blown. It's not the sort of
Speaker 6: behavior I think Austrains appreciate, and it's just sort of
Speaker 6: the kind of thing that Lydia Thorpe did. How is
Speaker 6: what your center's doing any different from what Lydia did?
Speaker 2: You know, it's serious and Lydia.
Speaker 6: Lydia at least had a policy disagreement with the Greens
Speaker 6: that your center's left. In this case, she's left our party,
Speaker 6: left her colleagues, left the people that supported her, and
Speaker 6: put a great cost to the people that did that
Speaker 6: over many years. It's not particularly not sort of behavior
Speaker 6: you should be proud of.
Speaker 2: That's an extraordinary spray there, Matt Canavan. I mean, Jacinta
Speaker 2: couldn't possibly none of us have. But she couldn't have
Speaker 2: foreseen the fact that Dutton would lose his seat, the
Speaker 2: fact that the Liberal leadership would be vacant, the fact
Speaker 2: that the Liberals would have bottomed out as badly as
Speaker 2: they did, only thirty nine or forty seats. So it's
Speaker 2: because of these politicalart.
Speaker 1: She's doing this for her ambition. She's doing this for her.
Speaker 6: People second died of it the rubbish, right, She's doing
Speaker 6: it for her ambition, and good luck to her. Good
Speaker 6: luck to her. But people are sick and tired of that.
Speaker 6: I mean that the focus now after a loss like this,
Speaker 6: Shari needs to be on the Austraian people, not on
Speaker 6: the Australian politician.
Speaker 2: Well, did you say she's doing this?
Speaker 6: She's going to run for a party that she hasn't
Speaker 6: even not even a member of yet, she's not even
Speaker 6: a member of.
Speaker 1: Yet she's going to run for the leader of that party.
Speaker 6: I mean, how about we just take a take a
Speaker 6: chill pill here and think about what is best for
Speaker 6: the Australian people after a loss like this.
Speaker 2: And don't you think it's best for the Australian people
Speaker 2: to have someone like just Center Price as either leader
Speaker 2: or deputy leader of the opposition. There needs to be
Speaker 2: a strong opposition. Isn't she more talented than virtually any
Speaker 2: other figure in the Liberal Party in the Lower House?
Speaker 1: No, I wouldn't.
Speaker 6: I mean there's great people in Liberal Party, Shari. I
Speaker 6: think that's that's that's pretty unkind to many of the
Speaker 6: people there just said it's great, like she's she's I've
Speaker 6: got great respect for her, got great respect for lots
Speaker 6: of the people though that I work with across the
Speaker 6: Liberal National parties or political parties.
Speaker 2: And there's nothing wrong with ambition by the way back then,
Speaker 2: but there's nothing wrong with ambition.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I'm not.
Speaker 6: But but Shari, the problem here is is how she's
Speaker 6: done this. She's done damage to her own reputation with
Speaker 6: the colleagues, damaged to her reputation with the people it
Speaker 6: worked for her. How does this help her or the country?
Speaker 6: I mean, I do think In fact, Shari, just days
Speaker 6: ago I encouraged just Senter to think about running for
Speaker 6: leadership positions in the Nationals Party because I still thought
Speaker 6: she was in our party group. She's got enormous potential.
Speaker 6: Sky's the limit. But this is not the way. This
Speaker 6: is not leadership type of behavior to treat other people
Speaker 6: like this, and that's going to hurt her.
Speaker 1: I think in the longer term it's very sad.
Speaker 2: Let's bring basilin. What do you think of this argument here?
Speaker 2: Do you think you Centerprice was right to move to
Speaker 2: the Liberal Party to be in a leadership position.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 11: I can hear the disappointment in Matten's voice, and I
Speaker 11: understand that, and I accept the National's position on this,
Speaker 11: and it would appear as though they didn't expect this
Speaker 11: or couldn't see this coming, So that element of surprise
Speaker 11: has clearly caught them out. I also understand people propelling
Speaker 11: themselves forward if opportunity presents, and that appears to be
Speaker 11: what has happened here. And she obviously feels that her
Speaker 11: political fortunes and therefore quite possibly the fortunes of her
Speaker 11: followers and her people, are best served by her being
Speaker 11: a member of the Liberal Party in the parliamentary team.
Speaker 11: Can I just say this too a lot of people
Speaker 11: around the country.
Speaker 1: Why didn't she say that last week?
Speaker 6: Why does she have the guts to say and the
Speaker 6: people last week before?
Speaker 2: I couldn't have known last week that Dutan was no
Speaker 2: longer going to be a leader.
Speaker 1: See come downs.
Speaker 6: This is not because of that, the Shari, This is
Speaker 6: not because of that. It's not because of that. Don't
Speaker 6: treat people a bit more respect. This has been on
Speaker 6: the cards for a while. We've all heard the speculation,
Speaker 6: and she feels like this is the best opportunity to
Speaker 6: run for a leadership position right now.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, good luck to her.
Speaker 6: I mean I would say, Shari, I think she's got
Speaker 6: enormous talent. As I said, enormous talent. But some questions
Speaker 6: have to be asked here. How come the LMP went
Speaker 6: back sorry the CLP, this country Liberal Party went backwar
Speaker 6: eleven percent In just sent his hometown of Alice Springs
Speaker 6: with all of the crime that's there. I mean, if
Speaker 6: you said it can't win Alice Springs, how is she
Speaker 6: going to win over Australia. I mean that I think
Speaker 6: she got Annomo. She's got enormous talent, but but you
Speaker 6: know you've got it your first job in politics, win
Speaker 6: your local area, when your street, when you back out,
Speaker 6: everyone does that, we win government and so I just
Speaker 6: don't quite. I think, you know, I think people are
Speaker 6: doing it. It has been badly advised here. I'm really
Speaker 6: it's not the right step to take right now for her.
Speaker 6: And look, we'll see how it turns out.
Speaker 2: Basil, what do you think? Don't you think you know,
Speaker 2: modernizing the Liberal Party having a chance of beating Labor
Speaker 2: you do just need a completely fresh face, someone like
Speaker 2: just into nambijinpur Price, who is not only a female,
Speaker 2: but but indigenous as well. Who embodies aspiration, who's got
Speaker 2: the most incredible journey, who stood up against the voice
Speaker 2: that showed a lot of courage. What do you think?
Speaker 11: I accept a lot of what Matt is saying. And
Speaker 11: again I understand the nationals disappointment with this, and particularly
Speaker 11: if they didn't see it coming.
Speaker 1: I get that.
Speaker 11: I think opportunity has presented, and I think the opportunity
Speaker 11: has presented because of the leadership vacuum that now has
Speaker 11: presented itself. And so with that opportunity there, just in
Speaker 11: Senator Price has decided all right, the doors opened. This
Speaker 11: is unorthodox, it is unusual, It's not what anyone's expecting.
Speaker 11: But I can see the best opportunity, Yes for me,
Speaker 11: but maybe for her. That also means for the issues
Speaker 11: and the things that matter most to her. And I'll
Speaker 11: just say this, I accept that in Senator Price's case,
Speaker 11: because of the very unique circumstances of the area that
Speaker 11: she represents, she may well be less popular there because
Speaker 11: of the complexity of that situation than she is in
Speaker 11: the broader massive crime just because and I accept that crime,
Speaker 11: I send that, I accept that, but that issue is not.
Speaker 11: The rest of the country's is Huey and the way
Speaker 11: she performed during the referendum, we know this won her
Speaker 11: a lot of fans, a lot of followers, and a
Speaker 11: lot of friends. And she may well be saying, Okay,
Speaker 11: doors opened, I'm going through it, so gamble and I
Speaker 11: understand the disappointment, but that's what politics is about. Sometimes
Speaker 11: the chance comes, it presents you go for it or
Speaker 11: you don't. She's going for it.
Speaker 2: Matt, Can I say something else? I mean, we all
Speaker 2: know a lot of politicians, and there are those politicians
Speaker 2: that you meet them and you just think all they
Speaker 2: care about is their ego and their own ambition. And
Speaker 2: then you meet others and you do get the very
Speaker 2: strong sense that they're in politics to try and make
Speaker 2: a difference in our nation. You might not agree with
Speaker 2: their vision, but you can see they're doing it for
Speaker 2: the right reasons. And to me, Jacinta strikes me as
Speaker 2: exactly that sort of politician. She's in it for the
Speaker 2: right reasons. She's had such a long journey to get
Speaker 2: to this point, and wouldn't having her in a leadership position,
Speaker 2: even if it's not your part. I understand you disappointed
Speaker 2: about that, but wouldn't that be the best outcome for
Speaker 2: the coalition?
Speaker 6: Well a week ago I would have agreed with you, Shari.
Speaker 6: But as I said earlier, why couldn't she go and
Speaker 6: speak to the members that have fought so hard for
Speaker 6: her to be in parliament, many of whom were supporting
Speaker 6: her because they support the Nationals Party. I mean, just
Speaker 6: a week ago Jacenta was using National's Party funds to
Speaker 6: be elected, and this week has walked away from that
Speaker 6: party that helped her despite all of that support, and
Speaker 6: without any sort of conversation. I mean, I do draw
Speaker 6: a contrast here. Look, this happens. It happens from time
Speaker 6: to time. Has been people to switch parties within the coalision,
Speaker 6: but there is usually a process that's gone through. And
Speaker 6: the last time it has happened in McFarlane wanted to
Speaker 6: join the Nationals Party. He actually went back to his
Speaker 6: local branch into Womba.
Speaker 1: I was there.
Speaker 6: I was there at the meeting, a very heated meeting,
Speaker 6: but he put his fate in their hands.
Speaker 1: It was up to them to decide which way he went.
Speaker 6: He didn't end up actually winning that one, but he
Speaker 6: lost at the EXECUSI for the l MP, so he
Speaker 6: went through a two stage process, but he went to
Speaker 6: both the party members and the party executive, and he
Speaker 6: suffered the fate that they decided.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why. I just sim I couldn't have
Speaker 1: done this here. There's no rush right now.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, there's a party were a meeting on at.
Speaker 1: Least got three years.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, party, So and she does want to run
Speaker 2: in a leadership position quite quite clearly.
Speaker 1: What about all those members? Shary? What about all those people?
Speaker 6: I'm speaking for them to a camera, but they hand out.
Speaker 6: I found I found I found out about this was scrutineering.
Speaker 6: I was scrutineering for a liberal candidate here l and
Speaker 6: p but Liberal Party in candidate Tory, young, great guy.
Speaker 1: I was trying to.
Speaker 6: Help him and and and there's all those other volunteers
Speaker 6: there doing that. They don't get the accolades, but they
Speaker 6: see then the people they support do this, and it's like, well,
Speaker 6: why did I get a state?
Speaker 2: Why didn't I question matter?
Speaker 11: I get the disappointment. Do you think the people of
Speaker 11: the Northern Territory who she represents? Do you think the
Speaker 11: people of the Northern Territories a conservative? Do you think
Speaker 11: the people of the Northern Territory care whether she goes
Speaker 11: to Canberra as a GNAT or as a LIB. I
Speaker 11: wonder whether they would the people that she represents, and
Speaker 11: I wonder whether they.
Speaker 1: The party members they can better about them. I mean,
Speaker 1: do you and I accept that?
Speaker 11: And I accept that Nationals accept that National's disappointment.
Speaker 1: I absolutely get that.
Speaker 11: But the people that she represents, the constituents of the
Speaker 11: Northern Territory, their issues, their problems, their challenges, can just
Speaker 11: expin prosecute the arguments for those people as a LIB.
Speaker 1: And that's what she's weighed up and decided.
Speaker 6: She thinks that it comes greater opportunity, and I wouldn't.
Speaker 6: Wouldn't I'm happy to put I'm happy to put the
Speaker 6: Nationals party record right now against the Liberls, if you
Speaker 6: want to go that far. But the situation here, just
Speaker 6: to explain, is when you're elected a senator, you're actually
Speaker 6: not really elected by the people, and not only the people,
Speaker 6: you're elected by your party to represent.
Speaker 1: That. Accept that and then to understand that. And our
Speaker 1: just center is very popular and well known.
Speaker 6: But before that she was on the ticket just like me,
Speaker 6: as a party representative, and so party members here but
Speaker 6: again in a week we could say then they've been disinfrancised.
Speaker 11: But also, Matt, that the client in the vote that
Speaker 11: you spoke about, well, we could also then use the
Speaker 11: same logic to say that's not Senator Price's fault.
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: Good point?
Speaker 1: Well, it is her.
Speaker 6: I mean, look, I don't want to be egotistical here, right,
Speaker 6: but I spend eighty percent of my time trying to
Speaker 6: win central Queensland.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 6: I'm based in Rockhampton, and now at the election we've
Speaker 6: got a one percent swing away from us in Central
Speaker 6: queens and Capricornia, and where I live, that's pretty good.
Speaker 6: We had a six percent swing first in Flynn, the
Speaker 6: seat below me with Colin Boyce tours. So I spend
Speaker 6: my time doing that and I'm on the back.
Speaker 2: Bet, we're nearly out of time. We're out of time,
Speaker 2: and I just want to quickly basel ask you about
Speaker 2: the new WA seat of Bullwinkle and where this is
Speaker 2: up to.
Speaker 11: Yes, at the close of counting only about half an
Speaker 11: hour ago, the Labour candidate three hundred and thirty three
Speaker 11: votes in front, still too close to call, and the
Speaker 11: Libs certainly not conceding for Matt Moran It is getting
Speaker 11: more difficult as this small margin increases ever so slightly,
Speaker 11: but it is not over yet. Three hundred and thirty
Speaker 11: three votes at the close of counting tonight, with more
Speaker 11: counting still to come.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, and as we speak, Bradfield and cup
Speaker 2: Young are also too close to call. Like, I really
Speaker 2: don't understand why the AEC is taking so long to
Speaker 2: count this week unless there are those postals that haven't
Speaker 2: arrived yet. All right, Basil zamplus Matt Canavan, good debate.
Speaker 2: I'm sure just Enterprices watching Matt. You'll be getting your
Speaker 2: text messages from just into no doubt we'll see send
Speaker 2: a messages.
Speaker 1: I've told her what I was going to say, see.
Speaker 2: You guys next week. So to come. Parliament House has
Speaker 2: been cleared of its worst anti Israel voice. Novi Peris
Speaker 2: is in the mood to celebrate. You'll join me soon.
Speaker 2: Plus Paul Keating reacts to the ruthless decision to dump
Speaker 2: Mark Dreyfus and Ed Husick. We'll talk about that after
Speaker 2: this quick break. Welcome back. Well, Paul Keating has come
Speaker 2: out tonight to react to the ruthless decision to dump
Speaker 2: Mark Dreyfus and ed Husick. The finn Review reports that
Speaker 2: Keating said that while the Prime Minister has recently made
Speaker 2: captain calls in a number of otherwise rules based pre
Speaker 2: selection ballots, his non intervention in respect of a new
Speaker 2: South Wales minister on this occasion is in effect an
Speaker 2: endorsement of a representative of another state group, in this
Speaker 2: case the Victorian right faction led by Richard Martz. He
Speaker 2: says typically Keating esque spray. It's a faction demonstrably devoid
Speaker 2: of creativity and capacity, and you wouldn't disagree with him
Speaker 2: there joining me in our Institute of Public Affairs chief
Speaker 2: economist Adam Crichton, Adam legendary former Labor Prime Minister Paul Keating, Well,
Speaker 2: what do you think of him reaction to this news
Speaker 2: that it looks like Mark Dreyfus and ed Husick quite strangely,
Speaker 2: perhaps you know the first Muslim MP, I'm the most
Speaker 2: senior Jewish minister will be dump from cabinet.
Speaker 12: Yeah, well, certainly I was rather surprised that Keating intervened. Actually,
Speaker 12: this is the way as I understand it, the Labor
Speaker 12: Party has worked for a very long time. The factions
Speaker 12: are very powerful both nationally and within the States, and
Speaker 12: there's been a minor earthquake since the election. You've got
Speaker 12: this huge influx of new Labor MPs. The left faction,
Speaker 12: as I understand it, is now more powerful. It's going
Speaker 12: to have fifteen spots in cabinet rather than fourteen. And
Speaker 12: basically the net impact of all this is that ed
Speaker 12: Husick is going to go and Mark Drefus is going
Speaker 12: to go. And I understand it. The Prime Minister could
Speaker 12: have intervened if he liked, but you can only do
Speaker 12: that so many times. You know, the labor leader is
Speaker 12: not as powerful as a liberal leader is within their
Speaker 12: own party, of you know, because of the power of
Speaker 12: the various factions. But you know, the more interesting you
Speaker 12: viewers and for the general public.
Speaker 2: Is what no continue.
Speaker 12: Well, just that you know the achievements of Mark Dreyfus.
Speaker 12: I mean, I'm sure your viewers would not think he's
Speaker 12: been a fantastic champion of the Jewish people. And you know,
Speaker 12: I struggle to think of something that ed Husick has achieved,
Speaker 12: as you know, as the Minister for Innovation. So I
Speaker 12: don't think they're really great losses. And I think this
Speaker 12: is just kind of inside the Beltway stuff. It's just
Speaker 12: a question of who's getting five hundred thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 12: who's getting three hundred thousand dollars a year, those sorts
Speaker 12: of questions, how many staff to people have? You know,
Speaker 12: this obviously matters in camera, but I think broadly and
Speaker 12: more broadly, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker 2: Just a couple of points in response to that. I mean,
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister at this point in time has more
Speaker 2: authority than he's ever had. You know, if he wanted
Speaker 2: to back in Dreyfus or ed Husick, he could definitely do.
Speaker 2: So we know his relationship with ed Husick isn't good,
Speaker 2: and just on the point about dref isn't And perhaps
Speaker 2: I should have spoken about it before now because people
Speaker 2: might be oneing. Look, he was the most senior Jewish
Speaker 2: minister in the Labor government. It is my strong understanding
Speaker 2: that he did defend Israel inside cabinet meetings when others
Speaker 2: like Tony Burke and Penny Wong were, you know, moving
Speaker 2: to hostile positions on Israel. He did defend it. He did.
Speaker 2: But you'll recall he came to our Sky News anti
Speaker 2: Semitism summit. I organized that summit. He came and he spoke,
Speaker 2: and in his final comment he accused us of covering
Speaker 2: the issue for ratings. I mean, you know, that couldn't
Speaker 2: be further from the truth, and it's the reverse. In fact,
Speaker 2: not everyone wants to sit and listen to us speak
Speaker 2: about anti Semitism the whole time. But that was his accusation.
Speaker 2: He was booed by the Jewish community in that synagogue
Speaker 2: and it wasn't, you know, our audience, it was the
Speaker 2: synagogue's audience. So he has been an incredible disappointment. He
Speaker 2: preferenced the Green Second, that was a massive betrayal. Josh
Speaker 2: Burns didn't do that. Josh Burns was re elected very
Speaker 2: strongly in McNamara. So there's all of that. But you know,
Speaker 2: this isn't the first time just say that A's intervened
Speaker 2: in federal politics. I mean, he thinks our personal income
Speaker 2: tax rates are too high. Neither of us would disagree
Speaker 2: on that. But you know, why won't the government listen
Speaker 2: here's the great economic reformer. Why won't the Abenezy government
Speaker 2: listen to him, Adam when it comes to personal income
Speaker 2: tax rates? Yeah?
Speaker 12: Well, sadly, the Labor Party used to be a great
Speaker 12: party of reform, but it seems to have turned its
Speaker 12: back on that, and I do wish it would listen
Speaker 12: to Paul Keating in that regard. I mean, he's repeatedly
Speaker 12: said in recent years that the top marginal income tax
Speaker 12: rate should not be higher than forty percent. He says,
Speaker 12: if it's any higher than that, it is confiscatory, And
Speaker 12: of course in Australia it's forty seven percent. And the
Speaker 12: most frustrating thing we hear from the labor parties sometimes
Speaker 12: is they like to compare Australia and our income tax
Speaker 12: rates to small European countries on the other side of
Speaker 12: the world. Who sure, they have extremely high income tax
Speaker 12: rates compared to Australia, but they're also in your and
Speaker 12: they're on the other side of the world. We're competing
Speaker 12: with all these Asian countries. They have much much lower,
Speaker 12: much much lower income tax rates than us. Indeed, you know,
Speaker 12: China's top marginal tax rate is lower than Australia's. I mean,
Speaker 12: isn't that just just absurd? I mean, There's is forty
Speaker 12: five percent, ours is forty seven percent, and both of
Speaker 12: them cut in roughly at the same.
Speaker 1: Level of income.
Speaker 12: So you know, we're always talking about you know, so
Speaker 12: called communist China. Well, you know what does that say
Speaker 12: about us? So I do hope in this new government
Speaker 12: we may see some flickers of tax reform. I think
Speaker 12: the Labor Party's tax policies going into election, quite aside
Speaker 12: from its superinnuation tax policy, were not terrible. It did
Speaker 12: cut it's has promised to cut the lowest marginal rate
Speaker 12: of tax.
Speaker 2: That's something.
Speaker 12: Sure, it was piddling, but it is something. And I
Speaker 12: thought the standard income tax deduction of one thousand dollars
Speaker 12: was you know, was pretty good too. So look, it's
Speaker 12: a very low bar in Australia for reform. But you know,
Speaker 12: we have to be optimistic because there's nothing else we
Speaker 12: can do at this point.
Speaker 2: Well, well we can be pessimistic. That is the alternative.
Speaker 2: I've been feeling a bit pessimistic lately, trying to lift
Speaker 2: myself out of it. Adam Krachten, great to see you
Speaker 2: coming up. The alliance between Russia and China is growing,
Speaker 2: with Shishiping the main guest at Putin's victory parade. We'll
Speaker 2: talk about that shortly. Plus it's hard to find someone
Speaker 2: more pleased than I am that Adam Banunt is out
Speaker 2: of Parliament, but Nova Paris might just be that person.
Speaker 2: She'll be on after this quick break. All right, welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well let's bring you now former Labor Senator Nova Paris
Speaker 2: in Darwin. Nova, great to see you on the show again. Look,
Speaker 2: if you're in Sydney, we'd be probably popping the champagne together.
Speaker 2: What's your reaction to the end of Adam Banund's political career.
Speaker 13: I was up every morning thinking to myself when are
Speaker 13: they going to update the AEC and watching the swing
Speaker 13: going against Adam, and I was thinking, when is it
Speaker 13: finally going to happen?
Speaker 14: And sure enough it happened and there's been a lot
Speaker 14: of jubilation actually, so you know, I was.
Speaker 13: Part of a grassroots movement called Better Australia and we
Speaker 13: targeted key seats across Australia where there were the Teals
Speaker 13: and the Green candidates, and we were a grassroots movement
Speaker 13: where we wanted one of the major parties to be
Speaker 13: elected and to be able to govern outright and not
Speaker 13: rely on these radicals for power and for the betterment
Speaker 13: of this country. In the stability of this country as well.
Speaker 2: And that is I suppose one of the positives from
Speaker 2: this election outcome. Were you disappointed that in the vast
Speaker 2: majority of cases Labor did preference the Greens? Second, was
Speaker 2: that a disappointment for you?
Speaker 14: Look, as you know, I'm well out of politics.
Speaker 13: I've been out since twenty sixteen, and you know, I've
Speaker 13: been on your show a couple of times and I've
Speaker 13: been very vocal about a number of things with regards
Speaker 13: to to labor making decisions, especially around you know, the
Speaker 13: protection of Jewish Australians and the rise of anti Semitism.
Speaker 14: So I guess this is what democracy is all about.
Speaker 13: You can say yes and now about certain things, but
Speaker 13: I guess for a labor perspective, you know, it's one
Speaker 13: thing to say that, but Labor has come off quite victorious.
Speaker 13: Is probably one of the most successful victories in political history.
Speaker 13: I think they're moving up to ninety one seats now,
Speaker 13: which is a huge win for Labor. But I think
Speaker 13: the great thing about this now is Anthony Albanizi and
Speaker 13: his cabinet has a mandate to deliver hopefully on all
Speaker 13: the promises, but also bring stability back in Australia and
Speaker 13: actually to stamp out the hate that we see weekly
Speaker 13: Shahi on you know, the footpaths of this beautiful country,
Speaker 13: which is you know, turning pear shape and not well
Speaker 13: on the international scene as well.
Speaker 2: I assume that you're referring to the pro Palestinian protests.
Speaker 2: But nover, we haven't any willingness by labor, by the
Speaker 2: likes of Tony Burke, who's the Multicultural Affairs Minister, or
Speaker 2: by any others to stamp out that behavior. So I mean,
Speaker 2: do you think they are going to start now?
Speaker 14: Well, I hope so.
Speaker 13: You know, in my opinion, you look at the seats
Speaker 13: of Tony Burke, Chris Bowen and Jason Clair, who all
Speaker 13: held seats in the western Sydney areas where we see,
Speaker 13: you know, a lot of the vicious and the violent hatred,
Speaker 13: you know, upon the Jewish community and the chanting of
Speaker 13: free Palestine.
Speaker 14: You know, you and I both know what that means.
Speaker 13: It's mean the erasure of the Jewish people in their
Speaker 13: own homeland, which the Jewish people have had an unbroken
Speaker 13: connection for four thousand years. And you know what I
Speaker 13: do like and love about Chris Minz who's been very
Speaker 13: strong and staunched on this and I think his leadership
Speaker 13: is incredible, And I hope now that Labor federally can
Speaker 13: take a leaf out of his you know, from him
Speaker 13: and to.
Speaker 14: Say well, this is what leadership looks like, and he's
Speaker 14: not scared.
Speaker 1: To say it.
Speaker 14: And the fact that he also.
Speaker 13: Has experience in the Middle East and has been there
Speaker 13: himself to Israel speaks from a personal connection. So you know,
Speaker 13: I can't see Labor just being another term.
Speaker 14: They could possibly be there for two terms.
Speaker 13: And I think that Anthony Alberanzi needs to draw a
Speaker 13: line in the sand and you know, look after Israel,
Speaker 13: the only democracy in the Middle East, and also acknowledge
Speaker 13: this significant amount of contribution that the Jewish people have
Speaker 13: made to this country.
Speaker 2: No, but I also want to ask you about just
Speaker 2: sent her naw Bajimba price. You know, you came up
Speaker 2: against her. You are on opposing sides of the voice debate.
Speaker 2: She's now indicated that she's going to run for a
Speaker 2: leadership position, most likely deputy leader of the Liberal Party.
Speaker 2: Do you think she'd be a good leader of our country?
Speaker 13: Well, this is the thing and I found when I
Speaker 13: was in parliament up here and little on Northern Territory.
Speaker 14: We have two members of the House.
Speaker 13: Of Reps and two senators and we used to complain
Speaker 13: every single year that the Northern Territory would get less
Speaker 13: than two percent infrastructure budget because in New South Wales,
Speaker 13: what do you have some forty eight seats.
Speaker 14: And that's the focal point.
Speaker 13: Of really and truly where a lot of money does
Speaker 13: go into with the development of this country. And we
Speaker 13: up here in the Northern Territory get sick and tired
Speaker 13: of saying, well, yes we want to be the food
Speaker 13: bowl to Asia, and yes we are the gateway to Asia,
Speaker 13: but the money doesn't stem this way. So I sort
Speaker 13: of find having a member from the Northern Territory down
Speaker 13: there speaking about views right across the country.
Speaker 14: I mean, it's you.
Speaker 13: You have to also broad in you know, I guess
Speaker 13: not only just your knowledge beyond the Northern Territory, but
Speaker 13: from a viewpoint of foreign policy, environment or the.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't be apart from the Northern Territory. And I've got
Speaker 2: to go so that just very quickly. Wouldn't it be
Speaker 2: incredible to have an Indigenous Australian in such a high
Speaker 2: leadership position.
Speaker 13: Well, I think any Indigenous person that can go forward
Speaker 13: on their own merits, but I think as an Indigenous person,
Speaker 13: you know, Jacinta hasn't been the kindest to us as.
Speaker 14: First nations people.
Speaker 13: And I say that more broadly and just by reading
Speaker 13: the room on how Aboriginal people you know, feel about Jacina,
Speaker 13: and I for one know that I was incredibly disappointed
Speaker 13: on how she you know, derailed the Voice to Parliament.
Speaker 13: It was something that should have unified the country, not
Speaker 13: divided us.
Speaker 14: And and you know, for me, I still.
Speaker 13: Feel this country is broken because we, as the first Australians,
Speaker 13: the DNA of this country aren't on.
Speaker 14: The nation's birth certificate.
Speaker 13: And if she wants to put her hand up and
Speaker 13: go forward, good luck to her.
Speaker 2: All right, Noviparis, really appreciate your time. Sorry to cut
Speaker 2: you off with it out of time. All right, after
Speaker 2: the break, we'll talk about Russia and China. We're back
Speaker 2: in a moment. Joining me now is Australian Strategic Policy
Speaker 2: Institute senior analyst Malcolm Davis. Malcolm, good to see you.
Speaker 2: The Chinese President has just arrived in Moscow for a
Speaker 2: four day visit. What can we expect, Well, look.
Speaker 15: The Chinese President is in Moscow for the Victory Day
Speaker 15: celebrations on May ninth, which is celebrating the victory of
Speaker 15: the Red Army against Nazi Germany and the Second World War.
Speaker 15: I think that what you will see is a summit
Speaker 15: between she and Putin to discuss the Axis of authoritarian
Speaker 15: States which were formed was formed essentially literally a day
Speaker 15: or so before Putin launched his invasion of Ukraine in
Speaker 15: twenty twenty two, So I hardly think that she didn't
Speaker 15: have any advance warning about that invasion, and I think
Speaker 15: what you will see is discussions between she and Putain
Speaker 15: on how that Axis of authoritarian states can carry the
Speaker 15: fight against the Western democracies in a more intense way
Speaker 15: and basically challenge liberal democracy as a system of governance
Speaker 15: across the planet.
Speaker 2: The Prime minister, our prime minister has confirmed he is
Speaker 2: going to meet He's going to travel to Indonesia next
Speaker 2: week meeting with President Proboo Sibianto. How important is this
Speaker 2: relationship to Australia. What do you think they're going to discuss.
Speaker 2: Is it more of a photo opportunity or will there
Speaker 2: be anything of substance.
Speaker 15: Look, we should have a substantive discussion because during the
Speaker 15: election campaign, one of the key issues was concerns about
Speaker 15: Indonesia climbing into the embrace of Russia, with Russia seeking
Speaker 15: to potentially base bombers out of Biac Island. I think
Speaker 15: if ALBANIZEI does not bring that up, is he does
Speaker 15: not discuss with Indonesia trying to avoid Indonesia drifting into
Speaker 15: the embrace not only of Russia but also China, then
Speaker 15: it would be a missed opportunity. We cannot allow that
Speaker 15: situation to emerge.
Speaker 1: So in addition to.
Speaker 15: Trade and join investment in resources and those sort of things,
Speaker 15: defense and security has to be on that agenda.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure there'll be a lot of questions from
Speaker 2: the media about whether he does seek assurances from Indonesia
Speaker 2: that they won't be allowing Russia to base any sort
Speaker 2: of military equipment there at all. We're just about out
Speaker 2: of time. But also noting that albanize is going to
Speaker 2: travel to Washington next month to meet with Trump, how
Speaker 2: do you think that's going to go? Twenty seconds?
Speaker 1: Twenty seconds.
Speaker 15: Hopefully it goes well, but discussing anything with Trump is uncertain.
Speaker 15: Trump probably will want better trade relations with Australia, but
Speaker 15: at a beneficial welcome to the US, So we have
Speaker 15: to be prepared to bargain hard and that's not going
Speaker 15: to be easy, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Thank you so much, Malcolm Davis. Right, that's all
Speaker 2: we've got time for today. Thank you so much for
Speaker 2: your company this week. I'll see you on Monday at
Speaker 2: eight o'clock. And right now, here's Paul Murray.