1 00:00:04,170 --> 00:00:06,629 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:09,898 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. We've talked a lot about mortgage stress recently on 3 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:13,020 Sean Aylmer: this podcast, but financial pressures aren't the only source of 4 00:00:13,020 --> 00:00:16,980 Sean Aylmer: concern for Australians. A survey by Global Resource Management giant 5 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:21,630 Sean Aylmer: Veolia says that climate distress and ecoanxiety have become the 6 00:00:21,630 --> 00:00:24,720 Sean Aylmer: norm with flow- on effects like food scarcity now considered 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,590 Sean Aylmer: a serious and immediate risk. I wanted to talk more 8 00:00:28,590 --> 00:00:30,840 Sean Aylmer: about the findings, but also learn a little bit more 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,350 Sean Aylmer: about Veolia. It's a fascinating company working across water waste 10 00:00:34,350 --> 00:00:38,220 Sean Aylmer: and energy. Richard Kirkman is the Chief Executive Officer of 11 00:00:38,220 --> 00:00:41,370 Sean Aylmer: Veolia Australia and New Zealand. Richard, welcome to Fear and Greed. 12 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:43,170 Richard Kirkman: Hello, great to be here. 13 00:00:43,890 --> 00:00:46,348 Sean Aylmer: I want to get onto the survey in a moment, 14 00:00:46,348 --> 00:00:49,889 Sean Aylmer: but if I look out my window and watch my 15 00:00:49,889 --> 00:00:52,498 Sean Aylmer: garbage being collected or my recycling being collected, if I 16 00:00:52,500 --> 00:00:56,040 Sean Aylmer: go and buy water, I see that Veolia name all 17 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,190 Sean Aylmer: the time, and it is a massive company within Australia, 18 00:00:59,370 --> 00:01:03,570 Sean Aylmer: which many of us know very little about. So upfront, 19 00:01:03,570 --> 00:01:06,359 Sean Aylmer: can you give us the elevator pitch on Veolia, exactly 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:07,710 Sean Aylmer: what you're doing in Australia? 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,959 Richard Kirkman: Yeah, sure. Well, look, globally, we are about 200,000 people 22 00:01:13,170 --> 00:01:18,390 Richard Kirkman: operating in most large countries, and we're all about environmental improvement, 23 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:23,910 Richard Kirkman: treating water, recycling water, producing renewable energy, and doing the best 24 00:01:23,910 --> 00:01:27,900 Richard Kirkman: we can to recover materials and energy back from wastes. 25 00:01:28,289 --> 00:01:33,569 Richard Kirkman: In Australia, that's 6, 500 people, and every day we're 26 00:01:33,569 --> 00:01:35,970 Richard Kirkman: waking up passionate about what we can do in those fields. 27 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:39,419 Richard Kirkman: And what we want to do as our purpose is 28 00:01:39,420 --> 00:01:45,990 Richard Kirkman: ecologically transform Australia's businesses, industries, cities, and the way people live, 29 00:01:46,199 --> 00:01:49,320 Richard Kirkman: not to stop doing things because we think that just 30 00:01:49,350 --> 00:01:52,950 Richard Kirkman: puts us back. Obviously we can recover materials and we 31 00:01:52,950 --> 00:01:55,920 Richard Kirkman: can prevent waste from being produced in the first place, 32 00:01:56,099 --> 00:01:57,599 Richard Kirkman: but we need to move on and we need to 33 00:01:57,599 --> 00:01:59,700 Richard Kirkman: just continue to do what we're doing but do it 34 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:03,390 Richard Kirkman: without impacts on the environment, and we call that ecological transformation. 35 00:02:03,750 --> 00:02:06,869 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Now Veolia itself is a French company. 36 00:02:07,290 --> 00:02:10,829 Richard Kirkman: Yeah, we're a 170- year- old French company. We first 37 00:02:10,830 --> 00:02:14,429 Richard Kirkman: had a water contract given to us in France by 38 00:02:14,429 --> 00:02:16,380 Richard Kirkman: Napoleon, actually 170 years ago. 39 00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:16,469 Sean Aylmer: Oh, wow. 40 00:02:16,469 --> 00:02:20,070 Richard Kirkman: And from there we've grown into all these kind of human 41 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:25,350 Richard Kirkman: health services, originally drinking water and waste management. Were really 42 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:29,070 Richard Kirkman: about human health and preventing disease in cities, and that's 43 00:02:29,070 --> 00:02:31,560 Richard Kirkman: grown into a whole environmental movement and how we can 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,780 Richard Kirkman: do things better as human beings. 45 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:36,300 Sean Aylmer: Okay. I mean, I do want to get to the 46 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:39,240 Sean Aylmer: survey, but what are some of the bigger ecological transformation 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,950 Sean Aylmer: challenges in places like Australia? Is it all about... It's 48 00:02:43,950 --> 00:02:46,800 Sean Aylmer: interesting what you said then, you kind of very much 49 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,740 Sean Aylmer: look forward to sort of saying, don't worry about the 50 00:02:49,740 --> 00:02:51,690 Sean Aylmer: past so much. We just need to be better in 51 00:02:51,690 --> 00:02:54,960 Sean Aylmer: the future, it seems. What are some of those challenges 52 00:02:55,530 --> 00:02:59,459 Sean Aylmer: that you're helping Australians with to transform? 53 00:02:59,910 --> 00:03:01,470 Richard Kirkman: Well, look, let me give you an example of something 54 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:04,829 Richard Kirkman: that we've been doing as ecological transformation for 20 years. 55 00:03:05,250 --> 00:03:08,010 Richard Kirkman: In New South Wales, there's an old mine, a copper 56 00:03:08,010 --> 00:03:11,310 Richard Kirkman: lead and zinc mine, and when that mine went insolvent 57 00:03:11,370 --> 00:03:13,799 Richard Kirkman: 20 years ago, the miners were being made redundant, there 58 00:03:13,799 --> 00:03:16,108 Richard Kirkman: was no one to pay them. And what was left 59 00:03:16,109 --> 00:03:19,379 Richard Kirkman: was a big open cast area with acid- forming rock 60 00:03:19,379 --> 00:03:23,489 Richard Kirkman: and pollution running into the waterways, heavy metals running into the local creeks. 61 00:03:23,820 --> 00:03:28,679 Richard Kirkman: And we proposed to remediate that entire site by setting 62 00:03:28,679 --> 00:03:31,230 Richard Kirkman: up a rail link from Sydney down to the location, 63 00:03:31,258 --> 00:03:37,140 Richard Kirkman: taking Sydney's non- recyclable wastes, using the site as a landfill, 64 00:03:37,230 --> 00:03:41,100 Richard Kirkman: a bioreactor to recover energy from that waste by producing 65 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:44,520 Richard Kirkman: gases that we can produce electricity from, and using some 66 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,790 Richard Kirkman: of the processed materials to remediate the mine site. So 67 00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:50,519 Richard Kirkman: over the long term, we would return the site to nature. 68 00:03:50,820 --> 00:03:55,020 Richard Kirkman: And during the whole operational phase, don't let any liquids 69 00:03:55,109 --> 00:03:58,470 Richard Kirkman: go to the local creeks. So a zero discharge site. 70 00:03:58,860 --> 00:04:03,570 Richard Kirkman: Also recycling materials into fertilisers, running a fish farm from 71 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:07,230 Richard Kirkman: the waste heat, recycling materials, having a solar farm and 72 00:04:07,230 --> 00:04:09,629 Richard Kirkman: a wind farm on the site, turning it into an 73 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:12,779 Richard Kirkman: eco precinct. So that's what I mean by ecological transformation. 74 00:04:12,780 --> 00:04:15,480 Richard Kirkman: Taking something that has maybe not been done in the 75 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,789 Richard Kirkman: best way in the past and just turning it around 76 00:04:17,790 --> 00:04:21,238 Richard Kirkman: so it's providing benefits to local and regional people. 77 00:04:22,020 --> 00:04:25,140 Sean Aylmer: So there must be a lot of research involved in 78 00:04:25,230 --> 00:04:29,760 Sean Aylmer: Veolia though, because what you've just spoken about I'd imagine 79 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,859 Sean Aylmer: is kind of at the front of the curve in 80 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:37,289 Sean Aylmer: terms of transforming regions and places like that, 170 years 81 00:04:37,290 --> 00:04:40,139 Sean Aylmer: old, operating across a lot of sectors, you must to 82 00:04:40,139 --> 00:04:41,460 Sean Aylmer: some extent be research driven. 83 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:45,150 Richard Kirkman: We've got lots of research going on, different types. So 84 00:04:45,150 --> 00:04:48,719 Richard Kirkman: the survey, the barometer that we recently conducted across the world 85 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,029 Richard Kirkman: and in Australia is telling us what people think so 86 00:04:51,029 --> 00:04:53,760 Richard Kirkman: we can make sure that what we're offering tunes into 87 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,909 Richard Kirkman: what citizens want, because what citizens want turns into votes, 88 00:04:56,910 --> 00:05:00,240 Richard Kirkman: turns into policy. So we're very tuned into the needs 89 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,058 Richard Kirkman: of our stakeholders and people, but we also have lots of 90 00:05:03,059 --> 00:05:06,779 Richard Kirkman: research into technologies and different systems we can use to 91 00:05:06,779 --> 00:05:09,719 Richard Kirkman: improve the way we do things. We've got about 1, 000 92 00:05:09,719 --> 00:05:13,110 Richard Kirkman: people across the globe that are researching different opportunities. As 93 00:05:13,110 --> 00:05:16,440 Richard Kirkman: you say, that operation in New South Wales has been 94 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,290 Richard Kirkman: happening for some time, but we've got new things that 95 00:05:19,290 --> 00:05:22,799 Richard Kirkman: we can do, such as thermal recovery of energy from 96 00:05:22,799 --> 00:05:26,670 Richard Kirkman: wastes and turning wastes into materials that can be reused. 97 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,000 Richard Kirkman: So we're currently putting in planning applications to develop that 98 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,259 Richard Kirkman: type of asset because today, Australia landfills all its residual 99 00:05:34,260 --> 00:05:37,200 Richard Kirkman: waste. There's a couple of new facilities going up in 100 00:05:37,469 --> 00:05:39,210 Richard Kirkman: Perth and we kind of need to build a few 101 00:05:39,210 --> 00:05:42,270 Richard Kirkman: of those recycling centers over on the eastern seaboard. And 102 00:05:42,270 --> 00:05:45,720 Richard Kirkman: then there's technologies and solutions that are a bit further 103 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,810 Richard Kirkman: in the pipe, such as mining the streets for heavy 104 00:05:48,810 --> 00:05:51,510 Richard Kirkman: metals where you get little bits of heavy metal coming 105 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:54,570 Richard Kirkman: out of car exhausts, palladium and platinum, which we could 106 00:05:54,570 --> 00:05:59,099 Richard Kirkman: recover and turning sewage sludges into plastics, they're a bit 107 00:05:59,100 --> 00:06:00,900 Richard Kirkman: further down the line. So we kind of got things 108 00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:03,480 Richard Kirkman: that work today, things that we want to implement right 109 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,169 Richard Kirkman: now and get together funding and approvals to build them, 110 00:06:07,380 --> 00:06:08,488 Richard Kirkman: and then things that we need to do in the 111 00:06:08,490 --> 00:06:10,740 Richard Kirkman: long term. So it's a real moving feast. 112 00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:13,409 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me, Richard, we'll be back in a minute. 113 00:06:13,409 --> 00:06:23,610 Sean Aylmer: My guest this morning is Richard Kirkman, CEO of Veolia Australia 114 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:27,240 Sean Aylmer: and New Zealand. Okay. Now you mentioned the survey gauged 115 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,059 Sean Aylmer: opinion on climate change and the willingness of people to 116 00:06:30,059 --> 00:06:34,230 Sean Aylmer: accept solutions. What did you find and were you surprised 117 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:35,910 Sean Aylmer: by the amount of anxiety out there? 118 00:06:36,809 --> 00:06:40,529 Richard Kirkman: It was pretty high. 84% of people say they're either 119 00:06:40,529 --> 00:06:46,350 Richard Kirkman: concerned or anxious about climate disruption, and one in four, 120 00:06:46,529 --> 00:06:50,339 Richard Kirkman: so about 25% admitting that the threat of climate change 121 00:06:50,339 --> 00:06:52,889 Richard Kirkman: was so worrying to them that it was preventing them from 122 00:06:52,889 --> 00:06:56,640 Richard Kirkman: making long- term life plans. So it certainly seems that 123 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,690 Richard Kirkman: people are taking it seriously. I think somewhat more positively, 124 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:04,558 Richard Kirkman: Australians think it's a shared responsibility to solve it. I 125 00:07:04,559 --> 00:07:06,750 Richard Kirkman: think that tunes very much into the Australian culture. 65% 126 00:07:08,820 --> 00:07:12,569 Richard Kirkman: of people think businesses should do something about it. 70% 127 00:07:12,570 --> 00:07:16,590 Richard Kirkman: of people think authorities should do something and 69% think 128 00:07:16,590 --> 00:07:21,179 Richard Kirkman: people, citizens should do something. So most people seem to 129 00:07:21,179 --> 00:07:24,210 Richard Kirkman: think that most people need to do something. And I 130 00:07:24,210 --> 00:07:26,369 Richard Kirkman: guess that's kind of obvious when you think this is 131 00:07:26,370 --> 00:07:29,729 Richard Kirkman: a whole economic problem of the way that we live. 132 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:32,160 Richard Kirkman: So if everybody doesn't do anything, it doesn't work. You 133 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,740 Richard Kirkman: can't just have governments decide something. You can't just have 134 00:07:34,740 --> 00:07:38,639 Richard Kirkman: citizens, you can't just have businesses. Everybody needs to play 135 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:41,160 Richard Kirkman: their role in this future direction we all want to 136 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,870 Richard Kirkman: go in. And I think people also from this survey 137 00:07:46,469 --> 00:07:49,110 Richard Kirkman: have tuned into the fact that they will personally do 138 00:07:49,110 --> 00:07:51,120 Richard Kirkman: something. So we've got a very high number of people 139 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,840 Richard Kirkman: saying they would go and buy recycled packaging, that they 140 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:57,570 Richard Kirkman: would sort their waste more at the household and that 141 00:07:57,570 --> 00:08:00,330 Richard Kirkman: they would allow a recycling center to be built near 142 00:08:00,330 --> 00:08:03,750 Richard Kirkman: them. So with that high level of change, and it 143 00:08:03,750 --> 00:08:07,350 Richard Kirkman: was in the 80s, 80% of people thinking those things, 144 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,390 Richard Kirkman: I think it's really possible to do something because you've 145 00:08:09,390 --> 00:08:10,530 Richard Kirkman: got the will of the people with you. 146 00:08:11,250 --> 00:08:16,380 Sean Aylmer: Are all three groups, the people, business and government doing 147 00:08:16,380 --> 00:08:18,720 Sean Aylmer: enough now? I get that they want to do it, 148 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,270 Sean Aylmer: but how far down the path are they? 149 00:08:21,270 --> 00:08:26,610 Richard Kirkman: I think for any kind of change, you need three 150 00:08:26,610 --> 00:08:30,090 Richard Kirkman: things. You need the economic model and the finances to 151 00:08:30,090 --> 00:08:31,620 Richard Kirkman: do it. You need the money to be able to 152 00:08:31,620 --> 00:08:34,949 Richard Kirkman: invest and you need the technology. That's the second thing 153 00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:36,689 Richard Kirkman: you need. You need a working technology and then you 154 00:08:36,690 --> 00:08:40,139 Richard Kirkman: need the will. You need the ambition, the idea, and 155 00:08:40,139 --> 00:08:43,710 Richard Kirkman: the willingness to actually do those things. I think we 156 00:08:43,710 --> 00:08:47,670 Richard Kirkman: do have those three ingredients. People would like to see 157 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:50,040 Richard Kirkman: a change, and there is money to invest in this 158 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,040 Richard Kirkman: sector, the environment sector, because it's seen as a growth 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,130 Richard Kirkman: area and there are plenty of technologies and examples and 160 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:59,309 Richard Kirkman: references of people doing it elsewhere. In Europe or other 161 00:08:59,309 --> 00:09:02,160 Richard Kirkman: places around the world, there is more recycling going on, 162 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:06,330 Richard Kirkman: so we can quickly leap to those new answers. I 163 00:09:06,330 --> 00:09:08,370 Richard Kirkman: think everybody's willing to move. It's just a matter of 164 00:09:08,370 --> 00:09:10,199 Richard Kirkman: how many of us are actually going to get up 165 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,259 Richard Kirkman: and do something. And that's what the 6, 500 people at 166 00:09:13,259 --> 00:09:16,588 Richard Kirkman: Veolia are doing every day. They're very passionate about bringing 167 00:09:16,590 --> 00:09:19,319 Richard Kirkman: about this change, and we're just trying to think what 168 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,140 Richard Kirkman: we can do next to build a new facility, recycle 169 00:09:22,140 --> 00:09:24,990 Richard Kirkman: a new type of material, work with another business to 170 00:09:24,990 --> 00:09:27,000 Richard Kirkman: see how they can make their products so they're more 171 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:30,450 Richard Kirkman: recyclable or encourage them to use recycled water. 172 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,949 Sean Aylmer: You mentioned Europe a moment ago. Whereabouts is Australia on 173 00:09:34,949 --> 00:09:38,040 Sean Aylmer: this journey? It's lagging Europe, I'm guessing. 174 00:09:39,030 --> 00:09:41,640 Richard Kirkman: So if you look at waste, we're a little bit 175 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,300 Richard Kirkman: behind in terms of our recycling levels, but that's caught 176 00:09:45,300 --> 00:09:50,189 Richard Kirkman: up very quickly. 10 years ago, Europe was recycling 50% 177 00:09:50,190 --> 00:09:53,250 Richard Kirkman: of their household wastes at a three or four- bin 178 00:09:53,250 --> 00:09:56,910 Richard Kirkman: system outside the front of people's properties. And that's just 179 00:09:56,910 --> 00:10:01,470 Richard Kirkman: being adopted across Australia now. The biggest change is food 180 00:10:01,470 --> 00:10:05,910 Richard Kirkman: and green collections, FOGO collection, which is just being made 181 00:10:05,969 --> 00:10:09,509 Richard Kirkman: mandatory across New South Wales. That will require people to 182 00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:12,330 Richard Kirkman: separate everything organic at home and put it into a 183 00:10:12,330 --> 00:10:15,000 Richard Kirkman: different container. And once they do that, we're able to 184 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,880 Richard Kirkman: take that material, turn it into a compost, turn it 185 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,979 Richard Kirkman: into a fuel, and really put a full circular solution 186 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:25,889 Richard Kirkman: in place, what we call the circular economy for that material. 187 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:28,410 Sean Aylmer: Okay. What is the single thing that I can tell 188 00:10:28,410 --> 00:10:32,069 Sean Aylmer: my kids to do? Is it actually sorting through waste? 189 00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:34,559 Sean Aylmer: And this is sort of a serious question, but if 190 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,600 Sean Aylmer: we've all got to play a role here and more 191 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,640 Sean Aylmer: than 80% of us think we should play a role, 192 00:10:39,059 --> 00:10:40,559 Sean Aylmer: how do we do it? What's our first step? 193 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:43,710 Richard Kirkman: I think it's really starting with what would have the 194 00:10:43,710 --> 00:10:48,299 Richard Kirkman: biggest impact. I often think people are obsessed by can 195 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:52,950 Richard Kirkman: we recycle straws and plastic knives and forks and these 196 00:10:52,980 --> 00:10:56,820 Richard Kirkman: small things that are being banned? And, look, that's important. We 197 00:10:56,820 --> 00:10:58,650 Richard Kirkman: need to make sure that we don't put things in 198 00:10:58,650 --> 00:11:02,939 Richard Kirkman: the ocean, but it's maybe more important to think about 199 00:11:02,940 --> 00:11:06,509 Richard Kirkman: the vast volume of material that currently goes into landfill 200 00:11:06,510 --> 00:11:09,540 Richard Kirkman: and is not reused and could be used. So go 201 00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:11,458 Richard Kirkman: and check out one of those facilities, have a look 202 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,040 Richard Kirkman: at what happens, and then listen to what's being proposed 203 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,880 Richard Kirkman: as alternatives. Because when we do try to build new facilities, 204 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,700 Richard Kirkman: when we do build recycling centres and composting plants and 205 00:11:20,700 --> 00:11:23,968 Richard Kirkman: energy recovery facilities, there's often some local people that don't 206 00:11:23,969 --> 00:11:25,770 Richard Kirkman: want that to be built because they think it should 207 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:27,480 Richard Kirkman: be built somewhere else or they think there shouldn't be 208 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,290 Richard Kirkman: any waste. And we've got to, as society, decide to 209 00:11:31,290 --> 00:11:35,160 Richard Kirkman: move on, build renewable energy facilities, have solar panels on 210 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,829 Richard Kirkman: our roofs, drink recycled water. That's another great example. We 211 00:11:40,830 --> 00:11:44,550 Richard Kirkman: produce recycled water, which is cleaner than the water we're 212 00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:46,710 Richard Kirkman: using to make drinking water, but no one wants to 213 00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:50,699 Richard Kirkman: drink it because it's come from the household. And we 214 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:53,190 Richard Kirkman: need to start thinking differently about these resources and how 215 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:54,660 Richard Kirkman: we can use them more efficiently. 216 00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:57,030 Sean Aylmer: Richard, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 217 00:11:57,540 --> 00:11:58,890 Richard Kirkman: Thank you. Great speaking to you. 218 00:11:59,429 --> 00:12:02,850 Sean Aylmer: That was Richard Kirkman, Chief Executive Officer of Veolia Australia 219 00:12:02,850 --> 00:12:05,280 Sean Aylmer: and New Zealand. This is the Fear and Greed Daily 220 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,800 Sean Aylmer: Interview. Join us every morning for the full episode of 221 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,099 Sean Aylmer: Fear and Greed, Australia's most popular business podcast. I'm Sean 222 00:12:11,190 --> 00:12:12,478 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Enjoy your day.