WEBVTT - Stranded for 537 Days in the Coldest Place on Earth 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.400 We'd like to acknowledge that traditional custodians of the land 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.840 on which this podcast was produced, the Galliger people of 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.440 the orination. We pay our respects to Elder's past and present. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.200 It's the ninth of November twenty nineteen and David Knof 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.800 has been at sea for two weeks. He's on an 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:23.799 icebreaker's ship that's tediously making its final slow approach to Antarctica. 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:27.760 He's here to take over the role of station leader 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:33.000 at the Davis Research Station. He's thousands of kilometers from 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:37.840 home in one of the world's harshest environments. Wis there 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.440 He'll experience hargh Gane force winds, freezing temperatures, and total 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:46.720 darkness for six months of the year. But he's grinning 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.199 from ear to ear. He's finally made it. But what 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.040 was meant to be a routine mission lasting just one 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:59.279 year was thrown into uncertainty when the COVID nineteen pandemic hit, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.720 leaving David and his team stranded in one of the 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:08.080 most isolated places in the world. I'm at Middleton and 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:13.680 this is head Game Today, a story of remote leadership, insurance, 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:23.360 and humanity during a time of absolute uncertainty. David Enuff. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.560 Welcome to my podcast, head game Mate. Now, before we start, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.360 I just got to ask how old are you? 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:32.959 That's an interesting first question. 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.319 Nine thirty nine? 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.560 Yeah, wow, well. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.520 Thirty nine mate, You've had quite the career and I'm 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.959 going to reel off a few things. You graduated from 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.960 Monash University with a bachelor's of Art. Whilst completing officer 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:52.000 training in the Australian Army. You served in the Solomon 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:55.560 Islands as an infantry platoon commander in two thousand and seven. 0:01:55.960 --> 0:02:00.480 Following this, you joined the Australians Department of Foreign Affairs 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:04.880 and Trade. Is that defact correct? Serving at the Australian 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:10.640 High Commission in Islamabad, Pakistan. And then you decided to 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.640 join the Australian Antarctic Program as station leader at the 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.960 Davis Research Station. Mate, for the age of thirty nine, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.600 you have car talk about a resume too. I thought 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.480 I'd done a lot, so let's unravel this. Let's unpick 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.360 it because it's fascinating me and it's first and foremost 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:32.880 good to speak to one of my own. Let's start 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.200 from the beginning. I suppose what made you want to 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.840 join the military, and do you come from a military background, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.480 of military family, not. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:41.720 From a military family other than sort of some Second 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.760 World War grandfathers, like everyone had. There was no real 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.000 drive other than at the end of my first year 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:50.360 of university, I'm like, this isn't enough, this is just 0:02:50.760 --> 0:02:54.760 not exciting enough. And I joined the Army reserv or 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.320 the territorials or National Guard or whatever it is in 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.799 the different nations, and straight away, like a a kind 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:01.440 of horse. 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:02.880 To water, I'm like, this is this is what I want. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:03.680 This is more exciting. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.880 It's out, it's adventurous, it's leadership, it's all these other things. 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.280 And thankfully I joined when I was nice and youngster's 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:11.639 only nineteen. Then a couple of years a year or 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.120 so through officer training and the strange thing I lead 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.400 that platoon I led over in the Solon Islands back 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:18.600 in two thousand and seven. I was the second youngest 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.480 guy in the platoon as the platoon commander, which outside 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.280 of the military sounds ridiculous, and people go, how on 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.320 earth could you be the officer and be in charge 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.120 of you have thirty soldiers, some of whom are nearly 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:29.920 fifty years old. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:32.600 That's why I asked, mate, That's why I ask your age, 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.800 because I think it's extremely important to realize, you know, 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.800 how rare that is to have such a young platoon 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:42.360 officer commander as yourself, even for me and I know 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.880 the military inside out, like yourself, that's extremely young. Did 0:03:45.960 --> 0:03:48.720 people take you seriously or did they? How did that? 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:49.680 How did that play out for you? 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:50.560 Yeah? I think that. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.440 I mean I had a good platoon sergeant like straight 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.800 away in good NCOs. As you know, that's the one 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:58.200 thing that makes a young junior officer work well, is 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.280 that a they've got with there e is and don't 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:02.839 come in with an idea of hey, I'm in charge 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:03.240 with doing. 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.640 It my way, which is absolutely at the breastpeit for disaster. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:10.160 It happens, has happened throughout history. So listen to my NCOs. 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:12.960 Trusted them and they are incredibly experienced, and they they 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:13.920 set me up for success. 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:15.480 And there was a lot of things I think, even 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:15.720 just the. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:17.920 Delineation of the roles between all the officers and the 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.760 NCOs do when you're staying you're lane, there's stuff that. 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.120 The NCOs don't want to go to. 0:04:23.160 --> 0:04:26.400 All the boring meetings at company and task force headquarters, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.240 and come up with all the ox plans and do 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.120 all the reconnaissance stuff to kind of go, hey, we've 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:32.480 got to we're going to go to these three villages 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:33.719 in the coming month, and we're going to do it 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:35.800 this way, like they don't really want to do that. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.120 Look, I think as well, I probably wouldn't. 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:39.680 Have been able to go to all war zone as 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.479 a platoon commander at that age that given that there 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:44.760 was a peacekeeping operation that the bar was probably a 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.880 bit lower, And so it works well to go, okay, 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.800 and then the few real live operations we had to do, 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:52.880 you just had this great thing. I go and do 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.240 the planning stuff with the task force or the INK 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:56.640 guys and work out how we're going to crack that. 0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:57.920 None of okay, we've got to go to these village. 0:04:57.920 --> 0:04:59.240 We're trying to look for these people and do these 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.480 things much to patrol the jungle, get inserted by helicopters 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:03.760 or trucks or whatever we're going to do. While the 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:05.560 sergeant the NCO is they're off just getting a platoon 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.920 level ready. You've given them the warning, You've given them 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.440 the kind of parameters of Okay, we're going to go 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:13.200 and do this So you walk out of that briefing room, 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.479 the platoon's ready to go, You give them the orders, 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.680 a little bit more battle prep to finalize it. Then 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.600 you jump in the vehicles and you drive out of 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:22.800 the fob and that when that's coming and I look 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:24.479 back and goes, geez, that was, And that's why I 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:25.880 never stayed in the army. 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:27.840 I'm like, I don't think it's going to get much 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:28.240 better than this. 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:32.720 To get operational command of a platoon at that younger age, 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.560 you kind of go oh. After that, you kind of 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.080 you come back and you end up in training command 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.279 and as a staff position, as a company to I see, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:41.160 and all these other things. 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:43.919 You go, well, I don't know how exciting that's going 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:44.080 to be. 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:47.200 Whereas joining foreign affairs and trade, they were like, oh mate, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.479 you we don't have kind of non operational jobs. You're 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:52.960 out and you can go any embassy anywhere in the world. 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:54.840 And everyone aways thinking why didn't you go to Paris 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:56.400 and Tokyo or somewhere lovely, And I'm like, no. 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:57.080 I don't to do that. 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.400 So how did that transition happen? So I know it 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.040 all too well. I was the same you know, I've 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.080 done three tours of Afghanistan. In my later years of 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.719 my military career, I'm a bit like you in that way. 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.040 I sort of get bored of things, you know, and 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:11.080 I think, what's the next thing that I need to do, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.440 What's the next hype, what's the next big adventure or 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:18.839 what's the next adrenaline sort of fueled task ahead of me. 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:22.520 What made you transition? And was it quite a seamless transition? 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:24.520 It was fairly seamless. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.359 So yeah, when I was in the Solomon Islands, we 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.560 worked closely with the embassy there and DEFAT and it 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.520 was the Regional Assistants Mission Solomon. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.280 I was led by DEFA. 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.680 And had Federal Police and had Australia AID and all 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:38.320 these different organizations, and that the uniform military was just 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:40.800 one part of it. With of course, with the actionable art, 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.279 we'd do all the anything that the police couldn't handle, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.320 we'd step in and do it. Always in tended with 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.000 the cops as well, But so we do a lot 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:49.120 of operations. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.720 With the EMBSC and I coind thought well and at 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:51.279 the time I was. 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.279 Still finishing off my degree which was in history and politics, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:55.839 so that was enough that was going to get me 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.960 in the front door, or at least to an interview 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.400 with them, and then having worked alongside them and seeing 0:07:00.400 --> 0:07:03.440 what the embassy did or what embassy staff would. 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.520 Do overseas, and like that's you're actually affecting change. 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:08.719 You're having a closer impact on it rather than just 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:09.800 chasing down bad guys. 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:11.920 And it was as fun as that is as a twenty. 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.120 Two year old that's right up there flowing the alicopms 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:15.560 and stuff. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:17.360 It wasn't quite fair. 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.880 And then it was a calculated, calculated, not risk, but 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.800 calculated decision around staying in the Army would have meant 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.280 the chance. And at the time, you've got to remember 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:28.320 back in two thousand and seven was the most operational 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.320 Australian Army you'd been almost in. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:32.200 Half a century. 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.240 We had troops in this on Loon Islands, East Team 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:38.040 or Iraq, Afghanistan, and then the peace keeping observers and stuff. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:39.960 We've got all these other places and Company in Butterworth 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.920 and all these things at the Army does. So there 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.200 was a lot going on, but it was still not guaranteed, 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.000 and it was this risk of all right, if I 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.880 go to a full time unit, you might be lucky 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:51.760 enough that you're on the next online battalion, you get 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.360 another trip, or you might end up just over in Afghanistan, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:56.080 but in a role that. 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:57.520 Isn't that inspiring. 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.520 You want command, Whereas with DEFAT there was certainly a 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.600 much stronger chance or probability you're going to get to 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.600 go overseas, you're going to get to do the actual work. 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.280 And I saw that as a there's some safety elements 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.360 to it as well. You know, yes, government war's got 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:15.280 an excitement to it that only soldiers kind of understand of, like, well, 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.240 I wanted to go to war, which sounds ridiculous, and 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.160 yet at a point you probably would have found this 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.360 with yours, like once you get to your second or 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.760 third trips, you start to go the clock sticking at 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.320 some point or what next? 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:29.640 Yeah, you do get to level of what nexten what's 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.400 the difference between the military and the Department of Foreign 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:34.880 Affairs and how you adapted to that? 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.440 Straight away, you're going from work at the tactical level 0:08:38.520 --> 0:08:41.960 or operational level of platoon and company or even just 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:45.360 task force operations, switching to defact work with the embassies. 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:46.600 You're straight to the strategic level. 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.360 So you're working even as a fairly junior diplomat, you're 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.160 working very very very sensitive things. You're working right at 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.360 the point of end. You'll be briefing foreign ministers or 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.760 prime ministers when they're visiting the country. And certainly the 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:03.840 postings I did to Pakistan and Iraq, it was like 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.120 chartering new ground. It wasn't kind of a strong relationship 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.240 that had been going for years. It was very dynamic 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.280 and very reactive to what it did, the enemy did, 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.959 or what other nations did. And certainly in Pakistan Iraqi 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.160 were closer with the British and the Americans, the French, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.840 Italians and all the other NATO countries involved in those 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:23.560 two conflicts. And yet you don't know what you're doing 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.480 next week. You'll have an idea and a plan. And 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.560 that's what I found fascinating. And the great thing was 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.360 you had this freedom of as at a fairly junior level. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.280 And the role I had in Iraq, I was embedded 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.040 with the Australian Task Group, so we were north of 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:40.480 Baghdad training and advisorsist stuff with the Iraqis. I was 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.440 kind of the lead of that self. So you're not 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.640 the ambassador per se, but you've got this sort of 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:49.000 delegated authority of hey, you're the Australian scene to diplomat 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.680 on the ground up there working with the Australian Task Group. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:53.400 You've got this freedom. 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:56.960 And again I was probably thirty ish and you've got 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.400 that authority and you're briefing foreign ministers, you're breaking defense ministeres, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:02.440 wrecking Prime minister's, all this sort of stuff on what 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.800 you're doing and advising what you should do, which to 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:07.120 me was a great jump to kind of go from 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.480 platoon level and reading about international relations in history books. 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.160 And I was never the youngest. 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:15.480 I was always on the younger side, and people are like, oh, jeez, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.320 you're young for this role. But then you'd found an 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:20.600 example of like, oh no, there was someone younger, or 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:23.440 just going back to history, as you're a young platoon commander, 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:26.320 I'm like, yeah, but historically platoon commanders have been young, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:28.679 and same with junior diplomats. 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:30.080 Yeah, a first. 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:32.840 Secretary political and an embassy in Paris or Tokyo, they'll 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.000 be older. But in the war zones, finding people young 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.680 enough and keen enough and adventurous enough, and there was 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.840 fitness elements to it, not necessarily like you're not stomping 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.880 around packs and weapons and all the other stuff. But 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.760 you're jumping on and off helicopters, you're in vehicles, you're 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.240 wearing body arm and you're wearing practical clothing and stuff 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.000 in fifty degree heat. So there's a fitness element to 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:55.400 it that attracted and made it more suitable to the 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.960 younger generations and ida well. And even with the Antarctic program, 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:01.960 I was quite young moving into that as a station leader, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.960 but I wasn't the youngest and I never had a 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:08.719 problem with it. Occasionally you'd meet people who had a 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.080 chip on their shoulder over it of hey, we're the 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:12.959 same age, and you kind of look at where they're at, 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.080 they look at where you're at. You can see them 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.240 looking in their own mirror, going you would you get 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.040 to be in charge? 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:20.920 I am. 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.880 So you went from the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:30.760 to joining the Australian Antarctic Program as station leader. Now, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.439 talk to me about the Antarctic, because before you join 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:35.160 this program, it wasn't the first time you went to 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:36.160 the Antarctic, was it. 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.000 No, So the first time I went down was was 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:41.400 with a bunch of mates who we'd all spent a 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.200 number of years in war zone, so it would be 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.079 cast up. So I got an email from my maid 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:47.720 who said, Hey, I'm thinking of putting together this Antarctic trip. 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.240 It's got to cost about this, which was a pretty 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.760 number of exits, and this is. 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:55.600 The loose plan. Will work it out depending on who 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:56.680 says yes. And I couldn't have. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.480 I'm just like yes, not knowing anything else other than 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.600 like I want to go to Antarctica. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.120 And let's do it. And then we kind of put 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:05.480 together like what are we going to do? 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.120 We worked out who was on the trip, what skills 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.280 they had, and we ended up doing ski mountaineering. So 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.120 I was riding a split board so you can kind 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.079 of turn it across country skis to do your ascent 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.839 and then look it together and become a snowboard to 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.480 do your decent. And we had we had an aim 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.840 of doing a first ascent of a kind of there's 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:22.960 there's so many mountains down there you can get first 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:24.520 as sense of any rock. You to stand on a 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.360 rocket like I'm the first human to stand here. And 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:29.880 we had that plan. We got weathered out. We never 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.080 actually got a first descent. Every time we'd get close, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:34.920 just be wide out and you want to speak to 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.160 Mallory and Irving if you're yeah about ascending into clouds. 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:41.360 But in those scenarios you do it. But these days 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:44.360 that's not a great idea. So yeah, that was sort 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.400 of at the first trip I did. And then when 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.319 the option came up to join the formal like Australian 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:51.760 Antarctic program and go as a station leader, it was 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:54.120 an easy decision to be like, well, I loved Antarctic. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.400 How did that spark the interest of you joining that program? 0:12:57.559 --> 0:12:59.640 It was the wildlife and the wilderness of it. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.360 So I I'd not gone down there with the intent 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:05.480 of changing careers and moving to the Antarctic program, but 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.560 when I got down there, sore and it is just 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.840 the most spectacular place on Earth. I mean, if you 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:11.800 imagine you've seen the character and Range and k two 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:14.120 of those, imagine that they're at sea level though, and 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:17.040 you're driving around in a zodiac with still water and 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:18.520 orcas and leopard. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.000 Seals and whales and penguins and everything. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.280 But then also you've got thousand meters mountains just rising 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.079 straight out of the ocean. There is nothing on Earth 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:28.920 Earth that comes close and that was what got me 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:30.480 across the line to say, hey, I want to get 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:31.040 back down here. 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.520 And at the time I was looking for something else. 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.559 I'd had a decade with DEFAT and in war zones 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:37.560 again and thought I'm. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:38.680 Going to do something different here. 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:42.160 But at the same time, the Antarctic program it's very 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:46.440 similar to the operational elements of running a forward operating 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.320 base or a military base overseas, except it's colorful, so 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.040 you're not using camouflage and gray and green. Everything's brightly 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.559 colored buildings. You're down there for science. 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.800 But it's got a whole lot of other risks and. 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.600 Challenges where the bad guys aren't trying to kill you, 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.320 but the weather will. And if you get your equipment wrong, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:05.800 or you get your planning wrong, you get your weather 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.440 forecasts and understanding wrong, you can you can really create 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.199 a lot of problems down there. It can change quickly. 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:13.599 So that was something that appealed to me on the 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.000 work side of it, not just the adventure and wilderness. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.880 There's a common denominator here, Davis, is the leadership mole. 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.720 If it wasn't a leadership role, would you have taken it. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.120 So the only job I was qualified for was station leader. 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.000 So that was because, as one of my team pointed out, 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:33.600 he's like, you know, the only thing required for your 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:34.840 job is a driver's license. 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:36.240 I'm like, yep, that's right. Now. 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.120 I've got diplomas in ops management and all this other 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:40.360 stuff as well, it doesn't matter. 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:41.720 Like, technically, all you need to be an. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:45.400 Attaching station leader is a driver's license, manual drivers, a 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.880 drive stick. But whereas all the other roles on the station, 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.800 you've got your scientists seeded to be a PhD level 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:55.000 glaciologist or seabird ecologist or benthic ecologist or some sort 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.360 of scientific field that you've never even heard of. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.720 You've got to be that, or you've got to. 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:04.400 Be mechanics, plumbers, doctors, radio operators, comms. 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.680 Technicians, satellite technicians, chefs. 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.920 Everyone has a specific trade and skill set, whereas as 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.280 a former infantry officer, you're not that qualified. And a 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:17.840 lot of transit transfers. 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.480 Other too tough for mate, No cuff too tough, that's right. 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.680 Other than other than being in charge of things and 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.280 telling people what to do, which is what infantry officers 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:27.720 are greater at the time, I would have taken a 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.880 different role. I think now, having done six different trips, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:35.760 all in leadership roles in Antarctica, I'd struggle, and I 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.480 do struggle when I'm not in charge, Like I've had 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.840 a few. The role I was running, I was running 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.280 a field camp. We were like four hundred k's away 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.320 from the main station, running at the field camp of 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.160 forty two people out in the middle of They where 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.800 their own helicopters and owned planes and all this sort 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.200 of we're in charge, We're doing it our way. But 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:52.720 to get there we had to go through the main 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.720 station at Casey, and the times I had to go 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:57.920 through there, and I'm the kind of field lead to 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.680 trying to get my flights out and get my team 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.520 out to dowfield camp. And there was both one of 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.600 the stage leaders we senior but been around a bit 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:06.560 so I didn't have to tell you much. But the 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.040 other guy, I was quite don and the amount of 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:10.280 times I've been there, like, oh hey, it's just a 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:11.880 quick one, like when out station, I actually think you 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:13.560 should do it, and like he was sick of me 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.640 with about ten seconds of telling him how to do things, 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:18.520 and my team are like I think you could need it. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:20.680 I'm like, yeah, I'll just shut up and. 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.400 Yeah, no, because it's definitely I would say that, you know, 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:28.160 there's definitely that leadership mentality and once it's ingrained in there, 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.640 and you know, it's it's a different mentality, isn't. It's 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.680 just a different way of thinking, different way of process 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:36.120 and things, and a different way of dealing with people. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.040 And yes, it's a great position to be in. 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.080 I always like to say though, like in terms of 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:43.400 leadership mindset, yeah, you can come across as a control 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.360 freak and there's elements of that, But at the same time, 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.320 the best leaders out there, they're really good followers, and 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.520 they're really good fundamentally. The first thing you need to 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.440 be is a good member of the team and a 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:55.000 good follower. 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.920 So when you're not in charge, you go, right, what's 0:16:57.960 --> 0:16:58.960 the what's the job here? 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.080 And whatever needs to be done, you just pick up 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.080 the shovel or whatever it is, and you're doing it 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.480 and helping and supporting other lead. And I say this 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.080 a lot of times, and you learn a lot more 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:08.600 from your bad leaders than your good ones. The good 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.400 ones you barely remember some elements. You're like, oh, Jesus, 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.160 aunt was great, you know, why was he great? He's good, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:16.840 whereas the bad ones you'd be like, oh, this, this, 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.399 this is this. So you always encourage people to look 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.600 at that. But when there's poor leadership ahead of you, 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:24.920 and it's so easy for a team to sit around 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.439 and be like, oh, jeseus doing this or this is 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:28.119