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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor. I'm Mark Boris.

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Speaker 2: Matt Jones, Welcome to the Mentor, Mate, Mark Credi beer here.

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Speaker 2: I'm well stocked here for Gin by a look of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And we'll go through this in a sec and we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about your book. But first, Matt Jones,

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Speaker 2: co founder of Four Pillars Gin. Is that how you

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Speaker 2: say the four pillars Gin for.

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Speaker 1: Four four pillars Gin is the brand, you know, we

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Speaker 1: come from four Pillars Distillery. In the hour of four

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Speaker 1: Pillars Distillery. That's better. But one of the decisions we

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Speaker 1: made very early on, and we'll get into this, was

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Speaker 1: we wanted to be a Gin business. So I've always

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Speaker 1: sort of treated it that four Pillars Gin is the

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Speaker 1: business because we're in the business of one thing and

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Speaker 1: trying to do one thing the best in the world,

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Speaker 1: and that's making Gin.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I like the sound of that. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know what these ones are, but they're pretty fancy labels.

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Speaker 2: That one there's got a cake on it. This one

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Speaker 2: here is a four Pillars bloody Chiraz Gin, and and

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Speaker 2: this one is I've had this one before.

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Speaker 1: That's probably one of your signature ones.

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Speaker 2: Correct, So that's rare dr gin. That's the gin that

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Speaker 2: started it all. Yeah, So okay, tell me a little

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Speaker 2: bit about you just don't co found a gin business.

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Speaker 2: Gin's Australian gin. Gin in Australia, I should say, has

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Speaker 2: become quite a there's quite a lot of participants and

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Speaker 2: it's not a lot of whiskey, and I'm in the

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Speaker 2: whiskey business, but a lot of whiskey people produced gin.

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Speaker 1: And we'll go a.

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Speaker 2: Little bit later talk about why it's about cash flow.

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Speaker 2: But why did you and where did you get your

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Speaker 2: hutzpa to go into the alcohol game.

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Speaker 1: I love the use of the word hutzpar like I

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Speaker 1: do a lot of podcasts. That's the first use of

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Speaker 1: it I had. You need to have to go to

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Speaker 1: the booze game. You know what I think you do?

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Speaker 1: And I think you need humility. Yeah, and I'll tell

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Speaker 1: you why I think you need humility. Beat up all

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Speaker 1: the time. But mate, you rewind twenty twelve, right. So

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Speaker 1: I've just moved back from New York City as a

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Speaker 1: global head of strategy for a big brand experience firm.

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Speaker 1: I'd spent the last six years advising big brands like

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Speaker 1: Samsung and Google and Volkswagen brand, an advertising centre for

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Speaker 1: a brand experience agency, so much more focused on how

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Speaker 1: those brands showed up in the world and interacted with

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Speaker 1: their customers, whether it was through events, experiences, retail. And

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Speaker 1: it was a really interesting time to do that because

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Speaker 1: that was the same time that social media, digital media,

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Speaker 1: mobile phones were changing how people interacted with the world.

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Speaker 1: So I would use this again. This is twenty six

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Speaker 1: to twenty twelve. Was when I was in the world

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Speaker 1: of agency. Before that, I was a failed political strategist,

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Speaker 1: so I became a half decent brand strategist and I

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Speaker 1: moved back from New York to Australia. I had a baby,

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Speaker 1: looking for things to do, doing a bit of consulting,

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Speaker 1: and I go for lunch actually just up the road

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Speaker 1: in Surry Hills, and I meet this guy called Stu

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Speaker 1: greg and Stewart at the time was running a public

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Speaker 1: relations firm called Liquid Ideas, and he'd sort of been

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Speaker 1: in the wine industry and one of his senses was

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Speaker 1: that Australian wine was world class but didn't always tell

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Speaker 1: its stories very well, didn't really walk as tall on

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Speaker 1: the world stage. And you could argue the same about

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Speaker 1: Australian whiskey at the time, incredible world class whiskey from Australia,

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Speaker 1: not always getting the credit it deserves. So Stear was

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Speaker 1: trying to solve that problem. He had another mate, Cameron McKenzie,

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Speaker 1: and a Cameron's a world class athlete. Olympian always reminds

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Speaker 1: us you run fast. Once you get to the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: you're an Olympian for life. So he ran fast enough.

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Speaker 1: In ninety six he made Atlanta for an a meter

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Speaker 1: runner around for Australia in the relay. He intertumed meat

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Speaker 1: in the wine industry. Become great mates. Cameron stays in

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Speaker 1: production operations, marketing, sales, the whole nine yards. Stew as

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Speaker 1: I said, goes into public relations. But they'd been daydreaming

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Speaker 1: about making gin and I think they thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe we need a third wheel in there, someone else

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Speaker 1: who can inject something a bit different. And he was

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Speaker 1: me fresh off the boat from New York, interested in

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Speaker 1: the theories of how to build brand in this new

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Speaker 1: social media socially wired aids necessary Gin well for me,

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Speaker 1: not the so Jin for those two. They'd had a

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Speaker 1: couple of cracks at wine. They were interested in wine,

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Speaker 1: but I think those had been hobby businesses. This time,

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Speaker 1: they're like, if we're going to do Gin, we're going

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Speaker 1: to do it seriously. For me, the opportunity to take

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Speaker 1: what I've been learning and applying in the world of

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Speaker 1: agency and go, maybe I should take my medicine, put

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Speaker 1: my mother, put my advice where my math has been,

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Speaker 1: and do it. And Gin appealed to me because Gin

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Speaker 1: has this beautiful combination of you can differentiate through product,

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Speaker 1: like you can make a genuinely different product. It's not vodka,

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Speaker 1: it's not mineral water. And yet if you don't get

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Speaker 1: the brand piece right, you're not going to succeed. You're

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Speaker 1: not going to cut through, you're not going to pull

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Speaker 1: off the shelf. So it was a lovely piece of

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Speaker 1: in a world of abundance, there is room for another

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Speaker 1: Gin as long as you have an angle, as long

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Speaker 1: as you find a way to make it better or different.

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Speaker 1: But even then you're going to have to tell the

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Speaker 1: story and build the brand really well. And that's what

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Speaker 1: we tried to do.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting when you just said to me, then, because

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Speaker 2: until I'm not here to give your business a blog,

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Speaker 2: But it's actually until why I had a I'm not

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Speaker 2: a Gin drink as you as much, but I always have.

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Speaker 2: If I've got guests coming out, I've got to have

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Speaker 2: a gin in my house and vodka. Yeah, but you're right, vodka.

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Speaker 2: And I thought about it until more recently, but has

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Speaker 2: got to be there's a formula.

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Speaker 1: It's got to look a certain way.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's clean, clear, you know, blah gin on

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Speaker 2: the other hand, And it wasn't until I started seeing

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Speaker 2: four pillars gin.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, in fact, I don't think it was

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Speaker 1: this one. It was another one I had.

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Speaker 2: It was sort of a yellowy color, had a bit

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Speaker 2: of abi use you gin. It had a different color

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Speaker 2: to it, and I thought, what's going on here? I

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Speaker 2: originally thought to myself maybe this is an old that's

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Speaker 2: gone off or something like that, because I'd had it

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Speaker 2: in my cup for ages. But my my EA had

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Speaker 2: bought it for my said go and get me some gin.

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Speaker 2: She went and bought me three bottles of four pillars,

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Speaker 2: but different ones. This is one of them, but there

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Speaker 2: was another.

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Speaker 1: Chelms in you you're a whiskey lover, yeah, so she

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Speaker 1: bought you one of our barrel age gins. So it's

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Speaker 1: got a bit of color. Stu Gregan always says it's

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Speaker 1: gin for whiskey lovers, and it is. It's got that

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Speaker 1: lovely softened natural sweetness from the barrels. Yeah, and you're right.

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Speaker 1: We've been able to make gin that is fundamentally differentiated

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Speaker 1: at a product level. Camera and always says like Australia

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Speaker 1: is the most delicious place on Earth. We are so

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Speaker 1: lucky not just to live here, but to eat and

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Speaker 1: drink in this food culture, in this natural environment, this

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Speaker 1: climate that gives us botanicals think about gin is it's

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Speaker 1: got to be distilled juniper. If it's not juniper, it's

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Speaker 1: just kind of weird vodka. But with juniper it's gin.

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Speaker 1: But after that you can add whatever you want. So

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Speaker 1: we add things like Australian lemon, myrtle, tazzy pepperberry. We

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Speaker 1: use whole fresh oranges that we steam for the rare dry.

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Speaker 1: We use sharaz grapes that we soak in gin for

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Speaker 1: the charas. We really make the most of Australia's flavor culture.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you talked about hutzpa at the start,

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Speaker 1: and I said, yeah, but balance with humility. Well, the

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Speaker 1: hudspa was we can make more delicious gin. The humility

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Speaker 1: was even then, The world, even in twenty twelve, was

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Speaker 1: not crying out for another gin. Like you went to

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Speaker 1: that Big Wall Bay in Dan Murphy's there was plenty

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Speaker 1: of gin. I don't think anyone was losing sleep going

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Speaker 1: where's the Australia clear color gins? Pretty much? I mean

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Speaker 1: there's a little bit of Cameron loved there was a

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Speaker 1: particular barrelized gin that he discovered on a fact finding

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Speaker 1: mission he enstewed in the States, an old tom from

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Speaker 1: Ransom up in the Pacific Northwest. There were examples, but

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Speaker 1: not many, but certainly the opportunity to explore gin and

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Speaker 1: to go, well, what are all the things that gin

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Speaker 1: can be? And that came as well from the humility

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Speaker 1: to go that, what doesn't need another gin? But maybe

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Speaker 1: we can wedge our way in if we make a

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Speaker 1: product of exceptional quality. And we will do that by

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Speaker 1: focusing on one thing and one thing alone, and that's

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Speaker 1: gin making. And as a result, and this is what

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Speaker 1: you've identified, we then went really broad with gin because

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Speaker 1: when you only get to do one thing every day,

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Speaker 1: you've really got to hone your craft and become bloody

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Speaker 1: good at it and get experimental, and you earn the

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Speaker 1: right to explore, and I think that's what we've done.

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Speaker 1: We've never got distracted. We've respected. Let the whiskey makers

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Speaker 1: make whiskey, Let the vodka people make vodka, and we're

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Speaker 1: just going to make gin and try and be really

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Speaker 1: bloody good at it.

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Speaker 2: Can we just talk about the process of making because

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Speaker 2: you said juniper berries, most people don't even know what

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Speaker 2: juniper they is. I actually must I've never seen one myself,

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Speaker 2: but a juniper berry is what and where the hell

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Speaker 2: did you get them from?

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Speaker 1: So great question, And I want to have a little

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Speaker 1: run up, and we allowed run ups on the pody.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things I talk about a bit

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Speaker 1: in the book is how business is just the constant,

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Speaker 1: active decision making. And you know that you've built many

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Speaker 1: more businesses than me and far more successful than me.

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Speaker 1: Like you're just making decisions all the time about people,

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Speaker 1: about process, about investment, about priorities. We had to make

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Speaker 1: a bunch of different decisions very quickly after that first decision. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're going to give it a go. We're going to

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Speaker 1: put some money in the bank and make gin. What

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Speaker 1: kind of gin? Are we going to make? London dry gin?

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Speaker 1: The classic British style, very juniper heavy gin that we've

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Speaker 1: all been drinking like Gordon's beefeed a tank ray. Are

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Speaker 1: we going to make modern Australian gin. It's a big

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Speaker 1: tick there, like, well, the world doesn't need a British

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Speaker 1: gin made by three Aussie blakes, it needs modern Australian gin. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Gin's based on juniper. We said we're going to make

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Speaker 1: modern Australian gin. So does that mean we have to

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Speaker 1: use all Australian botanicals? So what's juniper? Juniper isn't actually

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Speaker 1: not a bury it to conifer. It grows wild on trees,

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Speaker 1: and there's very little juniper in Australia. And what juniper

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Speaker 1: there is that grows wild that's hard to cultivate, isn't

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Speaker 1: particularly good quality. So then that's an easy decision. It

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Speaker 1: grows on what conifers, little yeah, little ones, little like

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Speaker 1: baby ones, and it mainly grows down in the Balkans, Macedonia, Kosovo,

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Speaker 1: and they'll literally go around harvesting juniper, is just beating

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Speaker 1: bushes with sticks, and the little juniper berries, these little

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Speaker 1: conifers are like falling off and they're beautiful. The astle

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Speaker 1: berry it looks like a berry. Technically it's a conifer.

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Speaker 1: We're already outside of my natural scientific comfort zone with

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Speaker 1: this conversation. But it looks like a little berry, it's

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Speaker 1: actually technically a conifer. Starts this real beautiful royal blue

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Speaker 1: and as ages it gets a bit darker and under

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Speaker 1: distillation it just releases this lovely, almost kind of painy.

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Speaker 1: Note it's a great classic London dry gin which is

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Speaker 1: very juniper heavy, smells like a pine forest. Not great

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Speaker 1: London dry smells more like pino clean. And so we

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Speaker 1: needed to ask the question if we're going to make

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Speaker 1: world class gin at meaningful scale, Well, it can't be

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Speaker 1: based on a juniper supply locally in Australia. That's a

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Speaker 1: pretty small spy of pretty mediocre stuff. So immediately like

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Speaker 1: got to get our juniper from Macedonia, from Cosova, so

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Speaker 1: that's where juniper comes from. So then the question came,

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Speaker 1: or what can Australia give to it. So we had

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Speaker 1: this philosophy from the app set that we're going to

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Speaker 1: distill the best botanicals from anywhere in the world, but

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Speaker 1: we're also going to do what you know, Neil Perry

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Speaker 1: and his modern Australian restaurants does find the produce from

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Speaker 1: Australia that balances with Asian spice, Mediterranean citrus and just

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Speaker 1: gives us this wonderful modern Australian flavor canvas to play with.

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Speaker 1: Shaniel just left. He was here on podcasts. Yes, so like.

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Speaker 2: But in terms of getting your juniper berries out of Macedonia,

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Speaker 2: which you know it's a pretty exotic place, wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: too many Australians have been in Macedonia. There's not even

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Speaker 2: a huge Macedonian population Australia.

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Speaker 1: There is one. I have one working for me actually, and.

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Speaker 2: Alice Voulknoski is father's Macedonia.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you fly to Macedonia to source this stuff?

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Speaker 1: I mean, Caon Cameron's been at but we have got

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Speaker 1: a fantastic juniper dealer, a juniper deal Yep, we've got

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Speaker 1: a juniper dealer. We've got in Macedonia. Or he's actually

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Speaker 1: based in the UK. So he sources the juniper that's

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Speaker 1: by Hendrix, by Tanker, by four pills. All the best

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Speaker 1: gin producers in the world use this guy. He's been

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Speaker 1: out here a bunch of times. He's done juniper master

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Speaker 1: classes for the team, Cameron's taking him fishing and dodging

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Speaker 1: snakes down in the Yarra Valley. But you know, we've

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Speaker 1: built these relationships and as you know, business is so

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Speaker 1: much about relationships. And one of the great networks of

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Speaker 1: relationships that Cameron in particular is built is with growers

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Speaker 1: with producers, whether it's the guys who grow are citrus

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Speaker 1: for the oranges, the guys who grow a lemon myrtle.

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Speaker 1: In this case, Juniper supplied Tommy who's over in the

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Speaker 1: UK and making sure we've got enough supply and we're

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Speaker 1: forecasting demand and that along with you know, you asked

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Speaker 1: how Jim was made. With the other side of it

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Speaker 1: is the Gin machine, like we distill in big beautiful stills.

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Speaker 1: And one of the first decisions we made were sending

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Speaker 1: Cam and stew On that fact funding mission to the States,

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Speaker 1: and they came back and went, we have to have

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Speaker 1: a Carl still. And I thought they meant a still

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Speaker 1: named Carl, because they showed all these photos of these

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Speaker 1: great stills from these American distill who's all just had

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Speaker 1: Carl written on the front. Turns out, Christian of Germany

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Speaker 1: just outside of Stuttguard. They like the Mercedes Benz, the

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Speaker 1: Rolls Royce of gin making machines, and it was a

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Speaker 1: stainless thing. It looks stainless. Actually every part of the

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Speaker 1: still that touches the gin is copper, and copper is

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Speaker 1: this beautiful purifying metal. Because what Carl Steels do really

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Speaker 1: well is they intensify flavor while purifying spirit. Because what

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Speaker 1: you and I want to drink is something that is

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Speaker 1: full of flavor but really clean, goes down smooth, feel

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Speaker 1: smooth the next day, but it's full of flavor as well.

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Speaker 1: And Carl Steels do that better than what else. Carl Carl,

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Speaker 1: Christian Carl was the name and founder. They've got this

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Speaker 1: factory the size of a couple of footy fields. They

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Speaker 1: handbuild them. They make about one a week. We had

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Speaker 1: to wait twelve months from putting the order in to

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Speaker 1: actually receiving and we called her Wilma after Cam's late mum.

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Speaker 1: Wilma arrived And that twelve month pause is really the

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Speaker 1: subject matter of the first section of my book. Because

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Speaker 1: we had this very rare opportunity in business to actually

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Speaker 1: slow down and think and go. We thought it was

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Speaker 1: a good idea. We've put down the deposit on a still,

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Speaker 1: we've started to think about what kind of gym we

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Speaker 1: want to make and why we want to make it.

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Speaker 1: But now let's really actually sketch out the beats of

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Speaker 1: what is this business we're going to build, because then

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Speaker 1: when Wilma arrived and Cameron could start doing experimental batches,

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Speaker 1: start fine tuning and finalizing that gin, and then it

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Speaker 1: was on and it didn't stop being on for a decade.

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Speaker 2: So you and I mean, in my whiskey business, we

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Speaker 2: have the whiskey maker, the dude who does this for us.

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Speaker 2: He's an expert whiskey maker, and none of us know

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Speaker 2: to make whiskey. Does do you have a gin maker?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's Cameron, So he's a gin maker. Though

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Speaker 1: we got really lucky. There's a lot of luck in business,

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Speaker 1: right like I mean, you make some of your own

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Speaker 1: luck and some of it. You know, you make the

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Speaker 1: most of what you're given. And we were very lucky.

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Speaker 1: On two caps one stewing Ham have both got exceptional palettes,

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Speaker 1: like unbelievable palettes. The technical knowledge of distillation Cameron went

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Speaker 1: out and built. You know, it's very lucky having an

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Speaker 1: Olympian on your team, because once he puts his mind

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Speaker 1: to something. He's going to make it to the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: and in this case, he taught himself to become now

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Speaker 1: I think the most awarded gin maker in the world.

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Speaker 1: He is only the twentieth worldwide to be inducted in

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Speaker 1: the World Gin Hall of Fame. He's in the Australia

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Speaker 1: Distilling Hall of Fame as his stew He's won more

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Speaker 1: more metals, more bleeding for gin than he ever got

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Speaker 1: near in athletics. He has become an extraordinary gym maker.

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Speaker 1: But that's him, and he's now built a whole distilling

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Speaker 1: team of master distillers through the assistant distillers. But he

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Speaker 1: remains that the visionary who built that making business.

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Speaker 2: And then you remember your very first bottle. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the gin process is much quicker than whiskey. So you

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Speaker 2: can get a gin out, you can distill it.

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Speaker 1: Winner's it really like a year, I don't know, eight

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Speaker 1: hours and two weeks, right, So that's quick. It's about

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Speaker 1: eight hours to distill. So Wilma makes about four hundred

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Speaker 1: bottle batches. Load her up with a neutral spirit whectually,

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Speaker 1: don't distill our own neutral spirits. You want to start

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Speaker 1: at zero. You want to start with the purest wheat

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Speaker 1: grain spirit. You can takes a stell the size of

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Speaker 1: a multi story building to really clean that to zero.

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Speaker 1: That goes in in what's called the pot, along with

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Speaker 1: whichever botanicals we wanted to still with everything called a

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Speaker 1: botanical anything you put in their steams in the vapors.

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Speaker 1: That's where we put whole fresh oranges sliced in half.

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Speaker 1: It takes about eight hours for that process to unfold.

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Speaker 1: Cam likes to leave that gin to settle and tank

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Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks before we bottle it. But

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Speaker 1: really that production, that innovation timeline, as you say, is

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Speaker 1: super compressed, so you can make experimental batches and pretty

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Speaker 1: much be iterating daily to fine tune and get to

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Speaker 1: that perfect recipe. And then it's about consistent. So it

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Speaker 1: doesn't go to a barrel though, like whiskey does not

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Speaker 1: dry gin. Yep, we do barrel age gins, and barrel

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Speaker 1: aging adds something. It adds layers of flavorite puls, different

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Speaker 1: botanical flavors add it adds sweetness. But dry gin, perfect

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Speaker 1: sort of gin and tonic gin is not barrel age.

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Speaker 1: It's just distilled.

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Speaker 2: It's to go straight into the bottle correct straight in

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Speaker 2: the bottle, so from beginning to end, from beginning to shelf, yep,

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Speaker 2: it's what weeks, just weeks. So it's a pretty good

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Speaker 2: cash flow business in that regard. I mean, because you're

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Speaker 2: assuming build by head.

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Speaker 1: It is capital hungry to start with, yep, because you've

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Speaker 1: got to set up buying a lot of dry goods.

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Speaker 1: You're buying this expensive gin machine. We believe straight out

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Speaker 1: the gate. We had to have a brand that stood

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Speaker 1: for craft and attention to details. So like custom bottle,

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Speaker 1: custom mold, beautiful labels, beautiful materiality of everything from the

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Speaker 1: outsets and you get wanet chance to make that impression

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Speaker 1: and be new. But once you've made those capital investments,

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Speaker 1: you're right, the cash flow was reasonably steady, so we

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Speaker 1: sort of tried to figure out what it would take

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Speaker 1: to stay in the game for the first three years

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Speaker 1: because even with that cash flow one of the challenges

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Speaker 1: of Australian spirits is we send so much back to

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Speaker 1: the taxman. So you think you're in clover because you

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Speaker 1: know people are paying seventy five eighty bucks with bottle

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Speaker 1: of gin, but thirty thirty five of those dollars again

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Speaker 1: straight to camera, so you're not making anywhere near the

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Speaker 1: margin you'd like. So we recognized to build a super

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Speaker 1: premium brand, a luxury brand, a brand that could could

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Speaker 1: sort of ultimately take Australian gin too the world. It

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Speaker 1: was going to take time. We couldn't get into the

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Speaker 1: promotional marketing game too quickly. We couldn't be discounting. We

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Speaker 1: had to hold on to price level and premiumness. So

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Speaker 1: even though the ash would start flowing, we still had

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Speaker 1: to have the capital and the banks that in the game.

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Speaker 2: So I think audience is like to know this. So

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Speaker 2: as you say the setup costs, like you know, you've

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Speaker 2: got to buy all the materials. You've got to buy.

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Speaker 2: You've got to buy a whole lot of juniper berries.

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Speaker 2: You've got to buy all your aromatics and all the

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Speaker 2: things that you put in. You've got to have a

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Speaker 2: stock of this stuff. You've got to get your stills,

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Speaker 2: you've got to get premises. You got to pay rent,

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Speaker 2: you've got to pay staff. You probably when you sat

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Speaker 2: down and worked out, and of course you've got to

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Speaker 2: pay tax.

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Speaker 1: Before we can sell anything. You have to pay first.

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Speaker 1: You can't pay as it goes. You the producer have

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Speaker 1: to pay.

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Speaker 2: So as it leaves the bonded area, it's gone give

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Speaker 2: me correct, it is bonded. So in other words, if

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Speaker 2: you want to get that onto Dan Murphy's or wherever

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Speaker 2: it goes, you cannot do that unless you pay the

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Speaker 2: tax first. So there's a lot of upfronts. How does

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Speaker 2: how did the you three guys go about funding it?

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Speaker 2: Like what was your game? Did you just sell a house?

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Speaker 2: Did you borrow against your arts? Did you go and

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Speaker 2: get some startup investors? And what was the process?

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Speaker 1: So we were fortunate. There's a few dimensions to that

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Speaker 1: will be really quick. There are advantages and disadvantages to

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Speaker 1: funding businesses in your forties, right, like I mean we did.

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Speaker 1: We were not a picture of diversity. We were three bald,

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Speaker 1: middle aged white blocks. But there were some advantages. We

401
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Speaker 1: had a little bit of capital between us, so we

402
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Speaker 1: were all able to put some cash into the business.

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Speaker 1: We had Stew and I were running our own businesses,

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Speaker 1: so we could generate our own income and not put

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Speaker 1: our own salaries onto the business straight away. But we

406
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Speaker 1: recognized we need a camera at camera was going to

407
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Speaker 1: build the distillery, make the liquid. We need to take

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Speaker 1: him out of his full time job and start paying

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Speaker 1: the day a week. We got really lucky and made

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Speaker 1: of ours who earned a winery in the air of

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Speaker 1: value that you can have a bit of the bit

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Speaker 1: of the bit of the winery out the back of

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Speaker 1: not really using it. You put a cage up credit

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Speaker 1: bonded area. Wilma can move in there. You can have

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Speaker 1: that rent free for a while. Will be grateful to him.

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Speaker 1: Rob Dolan in the Air Valley makes great Pinana grateful

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Speaker 1: to him for life. But even with that, we recognized

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Speaker 1: we needed money, and we decided let's not be greedy.

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Speaker 1: We'd rather each own a smaller percentage of a business

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Speaker 1: that had legs. So we went and found twenty friends

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Speaker 1: and family investors. We called them investors because we thought

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Speaker 1: it was very clever to put a G in front

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Speaker 1: of any word. Starting within that happened until we start

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Speaker 1: talking about genovation and we're like, okay, we're calling this

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Speaker 1: it's too much.

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Speaker 2: But we got twenty G investors. They put in twenty

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Speaker 2: five cage. We wanted patient cash, we wanted non stressed cash.

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Speaker 2: We didn't approach people we thought would be stressed by that,

429
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,640
Speaker 2: so we didn't think it was nothing. But we thought

430
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 2: it was a small enough investment for the right people

431
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,119
Speaker 2: that they could just send leave us alone between our

432
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:37,000
Speaker 2: cash and those twenty G investor shares that had enough

433
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:39,200
Speaker 2: cash in the bank to make those capital investments to

434
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 2: start to fund those initial brand investments.

435
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,320
Speaker 1: And we thought that would keep us in the game

436
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: for three years. And the reality is we were growing

437
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: at twice the speed weekst mean geneering more capital. Correct.

438
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: So eighteen months later we went back to those investors

439
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 1: and good news, bad news. The good news we think

440
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: on paper your investments four times what it was. Bad news.

441
00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,080
Speaker 1: That's because we've run out of cash with any more money.

442
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,120
Speaker 2: And you might ask you this because because it's it's

443
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: a lot of people sort of often talk to me about.

444
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 2: It is the way you find twenty investors twenty five

445
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 2: thousand dollars half a bar half million dollars that buys

446
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 2: a lot of stock, gets a lot of runway for

447
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: you in terms of getting kicked off. And I'll come

448
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,359
Speaker 2: back to the perhaps you may may not want to

449
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: talk about, but you know, what percentage do you give

450
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 2: them for that? Because at this stage it is just

451
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 2: an idea two percent eachk, so forty percent you give gave.

452
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 1: Three co fan Is owned twenty percent each one hundred

453
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: percent of control. We didn't give anyone controlling rights, but

454
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: in terms of equity, we sold forty percent. We held

455
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:42,680
Speaker 1: on sixty.

456
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,919
Speaker 2: Okay, that that's pretty generous, Very generous to your investors.

457
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,120
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, you know, because a lot of people

458
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,119
Speaker 2: you know, I will give away ten percent. But that

459
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: means your business is worth five million dollars. I mean

460
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 2: it can't be. It's just an idea. But and you

461
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 2: know it was clever calling him investors that that's quite clever.

462
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,160
Speaker 2: How did you sell it to them?

463
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: Though? Like?

464
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: And does it help having two other co founders? In

465
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: other words, trying to find twenty people? Like if I

466
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: said you find twenty people, at that point, you probably

467
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 2: struggle to find twenty people your so I wouldn't.

468
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: Have found two. I think I did find two. One

469
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: it was my dad. Okay, you're one hundred scent right,

470
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: and twenty is a lot. It is a lot, and

471
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,680
Speaker 1: go three. I say, well to an extent, And I

472
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 1: think probably probably Stu had the biggest network, and Cameron

473
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,480
Speaker 1: had a bunch of people in his area in Wine

474
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: Country who believed in him and his potential. But I

475
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 1: will say something else. We almost exactly this time eleven

476
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: years ago and twenty thirteen, two things were going on,

477
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 1: actually four things were going on, fine tuning the GYM.

478
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 1: We still hadn't finally finalized the GM that we launched

479
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 1: in December tween thirteen in terms of the taste, in

480
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 1: terms of the final recipe, exactly right. We were fine

481
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 1: tuning what i'd call the traditional launch avots. We were

482
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: going to take over bars in Brisbane, Adelaide, Sydney, Albourne

483
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,640
Speaker 1: and launched for pillars to the trade drinks, drinks, media, bartenders,

484
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 1: everything you'd expect. But the other two things. One was

485
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 1: what you're asking about now, the pitch to investors, the

486
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: pitch to ginvestors. But the other, and this was critical,

487
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 1: was our crowd funding campaign. So we decided to launch

488
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 1: both in the traditional way to the drink's trade and

489
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: the non traditional way. We were the first GIN brand

490
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,160
Speaker 1: in the world to launch through crowdfunding, not which ones

491
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 1: you use, which possible, which is the Australian platform. I

492
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: think it was the third biggest in the world at

493
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: the time after Kickstart in Indiegogo. Now that campaign we

494
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 1: aim to raise ten thousand bucks. Over the course of

495
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: a month. We put one batch of gin up four

496
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty bottles, sold it out in four days.

497
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: It put thirty thousand dollars in the tank, which was

498
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,879
Speaker 1: not nothing but was not game changing. But what it

499
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: did is it pumped conviction into the business. The day

500
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: before we launched that crowdfunding campaign, we had nine of

501
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: the twenty g investor slots field seven days later I

502
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: was getting panicky emails because we were on nineteen out

503
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 1: of twenty and people were scrambling to get that twentieth

504
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 1: slot because they could see that something had just happened

505
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: without having a drop of gin for people to taste,

506
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,159
Speaker 1: without having a bottle to show people simply by telling

507
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: the story well of what four pillars was our purpose,

508
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: our ambition, what Australia could bring to gin and selling

509
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 1: that out on crowdfunding to three hundred and seven people

510
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: who didn't just give it a like and a share

511
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: on Facebook, but put their money in the put their

512
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: hand in the pocket and handed over cash. That built

513
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 1: the conviction amongst the remaining ginvestors to go this could

514
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: be a good idea. So thousand Bockstege people pledged. No

515
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: people bought a bottle of gin. Right, So on crad funding,

516
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: it was a seventy five dollar pledge that brought you

517
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: one bottle of Batch number one and it made you

518
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: imperpetuity a member of we called our Batch number one Club.

519
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: We said, anything new we make for the rest of

520
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: your life, you get first dips. No equity is no equity,

521
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: just pure crawdfunding. So crowd equity is something that was

522
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 1: launched I think probably two or three years after we

523
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: did that. This was pure preset. Let's call it what

524
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: it is. It was pre sales. But the act of

525
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: that successful pre selling campaign created the remaining conviction for

526
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 1: the crab funding campaign, and its hard for the for

527
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: the equity investor campaign. And I think it's sort of

528
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: hardwired into our business, this belief in the power of storytelling,

529
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: of intimacy, of winning consumers sort of one consumer at

530
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: a time, and trusting the impact that could have on

531
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: your way to business.

532
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: That's interesting that, Yeah, so you you you use that

533
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: as a proxy for your investors, your actual investors, equity investors,

534
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 2: to say here's a proven concept, and though we haven't

535
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 2: produced a model of it yet, here's a proven concept

536
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 2: that people would.

537
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: Be interested in this story, correct in what we think

538
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: we can produce here in Australia. Correct, And we weren't

539
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,479
Speaker 1: cynical about it, and I don't think we ever use

540
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: the language of it. It's almost like a minimum viable product.

541
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: It's almost a test. But in hindsight, that is exactly

542
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 1: the role at perform. What did you what did you

543
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: play into What did you talk about in terms of

544
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 1: the the story.

545
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,920
Speaker 2: I mean you talk about, you know, Australian sort of

546
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: tastes and smells and native fruits.

547
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: We talked instinctively about all the things that eventually became

548
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: the kind of key if you're like pillars of the brand,

549
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: which is that we have this incredible flavor culture in Australia.

550
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: We have this great drinking culture. We've got a climate

551
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: that both lends itself to making gin and drinking gin,

552
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: and this irony that actually all the gin we drink

553
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: here in Australia, and all three co founders were guilty

554
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: of this is gin from the other side of the world,

555
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: and that kind of made no sense. And we said, okay, well,

556
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: let's now demonstrate that we understand some of the barriers.

557
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 1: And we've talked about them already. Some of the barriers

558
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: like XCIS and tax were the things that had stopped

559
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: Australian gin becoming a meaningful movement. We said, well, those

560
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: should not be obstacles. If we can figure out how

561
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: to clear them out of the way, we can just

562
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: have a hell of a lot of fun. We can

563
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 1: make gin that no one else in the world can

564
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: make because of the climate, the flavor, culture, the produce,

565
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: the botanicals we can access. And really we just romanced

566
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: people with that vision, and I think also convinced them

567
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: that Australians were people to make good gin fun, that

568
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: sometimes you see brands that are so committed to craft

569
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 1: and process and that folks on excellence that the fund

570
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: trains away like, well, it's still gin. It should still be.

571
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: It should just still be generous and warm and enjoyable

572
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: and have a laugh. But so we can. So we

573
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: talked a lot about like taking our craft seriously but

574
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: not taking ourselves too seriously. And I think even though

575
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: we hadn't quite sort of crystallized that as a strategy

576
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: at that stage, instinctively, particularly just stew I think those

577
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,199
Speaker 1: instincts were just really strong from the outset. So frankly,

578
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: people were just carried along with the story and thought

579
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 1: this will be delicious, but also this will be fun

580
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: and also very Astralian back them and very Australian, very

581
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: very modern Australian. I think we you know, you know,

582
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: we talked about Neil Perry. I think, you know, people

583
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: like Neil Perry became almost you know, marketing. You sometimes

584
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: talking about like your news consumer, like who are you

585
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: picturing when you're picturing, who's going to buy your product?

586
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 1: Who's going to be your number one consumer? I think

587
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: for us we almost had like news makers like if

588
00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 1: Neil Perry made a gin, this is the gin he'd make.

589
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: If X y Z was a gin, it would be this.

590
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 1: So there was that sense of we're not we're not

591
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 1: old Australia. We're not sort of just down at the beach.

592
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: We win a leather chair like and with a jack

593
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: and no tire shirt in the Australian Club. Correct, we're

594
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: the lame Ways of Melbourne. We're Surrey Hills, we're Darlinghurst,

595
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 1: we're Collingwood and we're wine country and we're mashing all

596
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: of that together and turning out extraordinary gin. So what's interesting, man?

597
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: This is that the By the way, I need to

598
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: know where's the name? Four pillows come from? What is that?

599
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: So name came from stew The name came from the

600
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: need to have a name. I talk about a bit

601
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: in the book. I think naming is often the most

602
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 1: painful part of building because people try and use the

603
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: name to solve all the problems of the brand. They think, well,

604
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 1: all the things you know, brand is about feeling, right,

605
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: I mean you know this. A brand ultimately is just

606
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 1: a word we use to describe how people feel about

607
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: a business. What really matters is the business, but also

608
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: what matters is how people feel about it. And so

609
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: when we talk about branding, talking about that emotional, storytelling,

610
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,239
Speaker 1: signaling side of a business. So people then go, well,

611
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: I hope that the name I choose can send all

612
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: the signals I want to send, and no name can

613
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: do that. And most businesses that we all know and

614
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: sometimes love, the Bavarian motorworks, who was mister Mercedes? And

615
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: who was mister Ben's? What is a face book? And

616
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: yet you know Tesla was a dead scientist. Like all

617
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: these names, they don't mean something until they are made

618
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: to mean something. So you get to the point of

619
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: making four pillars and you're like, Okay, we're going to

620
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: make great Australian gin. We're briefing in label design. We're

621
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 1: briefing in a custom bodle, and the designer goes, what's

622
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: it called? You're like not sure, and stud says, will

623
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: put four pillars on it for now, and asked him afterwards,

624
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's four pillars me made? Is? Ah? Camer

625
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: and I used to play this drinking game. Would be

626
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: at events like boring wine events, and we'd start just

627
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: to divide the room up into the four pillars of humanity,

628
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: and there was one humanity that was like unnameable on

629
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: this podcast or any podcast. So for him, it was

630
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: just like a fun name that referred to an in

631
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: joke that he and Cameron had. I liked it because

632
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't too long, Like you look at it on

633
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 1: the bottle, you don't need too much with like it's

634
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: nice and tall, it's easy to design around. But then

635
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: if you turn the bottle to the side. Every gym

636
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: we made, I said, what are the four pillars of

637
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: this gin? So it became a philosophy, a philosophy about

638
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: doing four things well and every gin everything we released,

639
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: we just said, what are the four pillars of this?

640
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: So it's the stills, the botanicals, the water, the love.

641
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: Bloody Schiraz is about the fruit. It's about the process

642
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 1: of bleeding color from the grapes. So it became a

643
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: discipline and a philosophy. And if you walked into the

644
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: Four Pillars Distillery in Heelsville tomorrow, every single person on

645
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: that tasting bench who tastes through the gins or offers

646
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: you a drink, they'll tell you different stories. But I

647
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: guarantee if you went back five times, every time, you'd

648
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: walk out and have the same feeling about Four Pillars.

649
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: And that's what we ultimately wanted it to be, not

650
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: one of those brands with a very rigid story where

651
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: everyone tells the same story, but instead it stands for

652
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: something and four Pillars is just the name that reminds

653
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: you of all the things it stands for. So that's

654
00:29:58,560 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: where it came from, and that's where it came to it.

655
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: We're going to get the breaking and it comes straight

656
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: back and I want to talk to you about a

657
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: little bit more about them, more mechanics of the business,

658
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: like you know, shelf space online, social media, et cetera.

659
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: So I go straight to the break I come back

660
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: here with Matt Jones.

661
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: He's one of the co founders of Four Pillars Gin

662
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 2: and all his very variations in terms of the various

663
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 2: gin flavors, tastes and aromas. And we've got the story

664
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: about how we landed alongside his two co founders in

665
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: terms of not only funding but also getting the business

666
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: I up and running. I mean, I mean, we haven't

667
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: talked about We won't talk about it because I mean,

668
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: I know, through the whiskey business.

669
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: But to the shape of the bottle, making sure you

670
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: get the caps right, the labels right. I don't know

671
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: if this stuff comes boxed. They're not boxed like like

672
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: you know it comes in a pouch or not.

673
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: But like it is a nightmare. The logistics of these things,

674
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: it is a nightmare. Especially during COVID it was even

675
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: worse because it was hard to get supply of stuff.

676
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: I remember my business, it was very difficult to get

677
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 2: some bottles, for example. And then of course you know

678
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: you probably had issues around getting your junivate berriers because

679
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: they've got to come from another place. But I do

680
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 2: want to talk to you about the marketing side of

681
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: this business. Now it's got a great name. It's got

682
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 2: you guys are all sort of have the three of

683
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 2: you have great.

684
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 1: Genetics in marketing.

685
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: We were we were were you're being very polite. We

686
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: were probably overweight in terms of marketing and brand leadership

687
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: and underweight in terms of traditional like commercial and finding

688
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 2: team well logistics. Luckily, Cameron's got a lot of ours

689
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: in the day, so he figured a lot of stuff out. Well,

690
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 2: let's talk about So we talked about how the you know,

691
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 2: it looks. Look the present is beautiful, the whole bottle

692
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 2: is beautiful, the wrap on it's very nice. I mean,

693
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 2: everything looks schmick like. I mean, I guess this is

694
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: not how I originally looked. It was probably pretty close

695
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 2: to it. What you're right, and your label you put

696
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: in your label.

697
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 1: But how do you sell this? So what is your

698
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: sell strategy? By which distribution method ologies? There's a film

699
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: came out a couple of years ago, Everything everywhere, all

700
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: at once. That is the four pillars cell strategy. It

701
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: is get all the plates up in the air and

702
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: try and keep all of them spinning. And I think

703
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: it was really important that we did that. So I'll

704
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: unpack a bit what I mean. I think it's really

705
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: important as a business that you have a theory of growth.

706
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: I mean it may sound obvious, but I think everyone

707
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: who goes into business they need to understand how is

708
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: this business going to grow? To your question, who's going

709
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: to buy it? Where are they going to buy it,

710
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: why are they going to buy it? And what is

711
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: the role of all the traditional marketing piece, the product,

712
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: the place where it's going to be sold, the way

713
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: it's going to be promoted, the way it's packaged, all

714
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: of those things and the price. And the price is

715
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: so critical we decided that we needed to take both

716
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: a traditional and a non traditional approach at the same

717
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: time and make them work hard for each other. So

718
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: on the traditional side, we're like, well, you can't be

719
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 1: a world class gym business if you're not a gin

720
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: that's on world class back bars. If world class bartenders

721
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: aren't making world class martinis and the groanies with your gym, Well,

722
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: how can you really say to your consumer we're the

723
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: best gin in the world, But every time you go

724
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: to a bar you don't see it there. So big

725
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: focus on relationships with influential top bars and restaurants at

726
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: the same time. How do you do that? You wear

727
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: out the leather on your shoes and you meet people

728
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: and you invite them to come to you. So we

729
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: spent a One of our biggest marketing budgets in the

730
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: first three years was travel. Travel for us, particularly stewing

731
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: cam they were the front men out in the trade,

732
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: but also travel for incoming bartenders. We bought a bus,

733
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: really on bought a gym bus just so we could

734
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: get now drunk bartenders back to Melbourne or back to

735
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: the airport, because if we could get them to come

736
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: and make with us. You use the advantages you're given. Right,

737
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: most world class gin distilleries are in the northern Hemisphere.

738
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 1: Ours was an hour from Melbourne airporty five minutes from

739
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 1: Albourne CBD. Let's use the advantage your proximity, get them

740
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: to come and make with us. Be generous. Stu would

741
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: talk endlessly about the importance of generosity, like walk into

742
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,959
Speaker 1: a bar, ask them about their bar, ask them about

743
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: their business. Don't just give them a nip of gin,

744
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: hand them the bottle, Invite them to come and spend

745
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: the weekend with you. Invite me to come and make

746
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: gym with you, be friends, build relationships. So really we

747
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: wanted to be, you know, part of that Australian gin movement,

748
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: which includes the drinks movement. Same for retail. We can

749
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: I just stop around there just on the drinks. In

750
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: terms of do it lets you we're talking like I.

751
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: Don't know, I'm just imagining this sort of sup like

752
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 2: a thousand bartenders would have attended your premises or you

753
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 2: attended their premises.

754
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: Many many many thousands, many thousands, many thousands, And what's

755
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: the follow up?

756
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 2: So like they're coming down there for a day or

757
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: two days, whatever the case may be. You drop them

758
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 2: back to the airport the half tanked. You then ring

759
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 2: them back up and say, hey, John, what do you

760
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: think of this? So it's a great question and I

761
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 2: feel we could spend the whole podcast on it, and

762
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: let's do it if we need to, because it's really interesting.

763
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 2: So we had a great distribution partner called Vanguard. As

764
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 2: a I think it's really important to understand the edges

765
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: of the business you are in and drinks distribution. Distribution

766
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: is a logistics game, it's a cash flow game, it's

767
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 2: a personnel game.

768
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: So you need a good partner who's actually out there.

769
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: But your distributor is not your relationship builder. We needed

770
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 1: to own the relationship. So a lot of the task

771
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: of follow up and selling in that you're talking about

772
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: was the job of the distributor. But you also have

773
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: to make bets and not know that all of them

774
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 1: will pay off. So you're going to go and build

775
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: great relationships with the ten most influential bartenders in Australia.

776
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: Some of them will be working at a bar that

777
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: currently has a deal that's completely wrapped up by Diagio,

778
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: and you're not going to move to the ashually being

779
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: one of the distributors correct or. Some of the world's

780
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: great drinks businesses Diazuo, Beam, Suntory, pan of Acard, they've

781
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: all got great they're all good businesses, they've all got

782
00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: great deals with bars.

783
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 2: You've just won Diazzio's World Class, which is one of

784
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: the world's top bartender competitions. It's a very good chance

785
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: that your bar has now got a very lucratively retained

786
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 2: back bar full of Diazio spirits. That's fine, that's part

787
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 2: of the game, but that doesn't mean that that bartender

788
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: isn't still influential and important and influencing and training other

789
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 2: bartenders and having other bartenders working under them who are

790
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: going to.

791
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: Go and open their own bar. And so you've got

792
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: to sort of trust, and I think this is a

793
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: big part of the four pillars model. You've got to

794
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: trust that what you give out to the world will

795
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: come back to you. That if you are generous with

796
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 1: your knowledge, generous with your gin, building relationships, making friends,

797
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 1: being seen as good people, making a good product, the

798
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: return won't always be immediate. So in some cases you

799
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: wanted them to list the gin and not just on

800
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: the back bar, but in their house gin and tonic

801
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: in a listed cocktail. Most consumers aren't going to walk

802
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: into a bar look for a gin they've never heard

803
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: of before in order that they're going to point at

804
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: the menu and go, oh, martini, I'll get that martini.

805
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: And I see you make yours with four pillars olive

806
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,840
Speaker 1: leaf gin fantastic, sounds delicious. So you have to have

807
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: this combination of some people are giving you a more

808
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: immediate return. Again, segmentation of bars. There's influential bars small

809
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: they're not going to do big volumes, but they're going

810
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: to have a big impact in terms of profile, then

811
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: you've got the marra vels of this world groups who

812
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: are going to give you scale but a premium. And

813
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: then you've got the sort of wider pubs who are

814
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: not going to give you premium profile, but might unlock

815
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: some volume if you can hit a price point. So

816
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 1: not all bars are credit equal, not all relationships are

817
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 1: credit equal. And we had to have the subtlety to

818
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: navigate that landscape. And we had to make sure that

819
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: after Mark Borris had been into a bar, had that

820
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: great martini, went Wow, that's the best martini I've had

821
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: this year. What's the gin? And this out? It is

822
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: olive leaf gin that four pillars make. Who the four

823
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 1: pillars are down in the Ara Valley and this is

824
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 1: made with olive oil and I've seen them make it

825
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: because I was down there a month ago. So now

826
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: you've got personal testimonial bit of connection. You walk into

827
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: Dan Murphy's, you need to see it on shelf, you

828
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: need to see it ranged with its friends, and hopefully

829
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: that's that point of discovery. So we really had to

830
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: call that the entrade and the trade. But all of

831
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: that is the distributed side to what It's a lot.

832
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: It's a huge and it was only half of what

833
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: we did because just join me on the other half

834
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: of the business. Right, So we make this decision very

835
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: early on, we're only going to make gin. We make

836
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: rare dry gin. We launch it in December twenty thirteen.

837
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: In March of twenty fourteen, it wins its first big medal.

838
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: It gets double gold San Francisco World Spirits Competition. That

839
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: means every judge and the comp had given it a

840
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: gold medal. Now at that point, sensible business people like

841
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: had you been on our board, you'd have said, guys,

842
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: it's time to double down. Time to like blow the

843
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: doors off red dry gin. Nationwide distribution, get it everywhere,

844
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 1: get behind it. Everyone in Australia has to taste it.

845
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: And that I think would have been a completely legitimate

846
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: bit of advice. But we also looked at it and went,

847
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: we've written into our purpose we want to be Gin makers,

848
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,840
Speaker 1: we want to explore gin. We want to make the

849
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: most of what Australia can bring to Gin. That doesn't

850
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: mean one Gin. That means playing with Gin broadly. And

851
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: it's that that led us to making the world's first

852
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,720
Speaker 1: dedicated gym for a NEGRONI beautiful bit of week cocktail.

853
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: We want a gin that smashed it in a the groany,

854
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: the Martini gin. I talked about the Christmas gin that's

855
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: on your table here, the gin soaked with Charaz grapes.

856
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: And to make the most of that, we needed a

857
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: direct consumer business. We needed a way to build a

858
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: database a fanatical gin collector's gin lovers people. Seth god

859
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: In is the marketing guru that I love. He would

860
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: talk about, you know literally, you know, you need people

861
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: to be almost contagious with their love of your brand

862
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: to sort of sneeze it to everyone. You can't say

863
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: that now we've had COVID, but you know what I mean.

864
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: And so we were trying to build that and as

865
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: well of going how do we build out of that

866
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: crowd funding campaign that first three hundred quickly that was

867
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: a database of two thousand quickly, that was a database

868
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: of fifty thousand people who we could email direct and

869
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: say we've just made a gin with Zoe Foster Blake

870
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: at Go to Skincare and it was gone in four hours.

871
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 1: We've just made another batch of Blachera's gin that lasted

872
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: two days. And so the energy that we created through

873
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: that direct consumer business this way that we were constantly

874
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 1: putting our gin making Gin love in credentials on display.

875
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: I remember the first meeting we have Dan Murphy's. I said, please,

876
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: don't don't be scared, don't be worried, don't be offended.

877
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: We will try relentlessly to sell Gin direct. And I

878
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: guarantee Dan Murphy's every bottle of gym we sell direct,

879
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 1: that person who buys direct from us will send ten

880
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 1: people into their local Dan Murphies to go and buy

881
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 1: four pillars. That this system will work. And that really

882
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: is the system. We're back so effectively we were growing

883
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: two businesses at the same time. This fast turnaround, highly

884
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: experimental direct consumer business and this longer lead time logistical

885
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: business of getting into every bottle shop, every bar, first

886
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: in Australia and now in thirty countries worldwide, in thirty

887
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: countries world one. Now, well done, Gragilation. That does amazing.

888
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: But I think you've been very modest because how many,

889
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 2: Because what you just talked about then is a mission,

890
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: a big mission, a giant mission, the three of you.

891
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,360
Speaker 1: To get in to get into so many places of

892
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 1: what you like. Ten years now we're ten years, eleven years,

893
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: eleven years.

894
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 2: Year to be in bars around the world. I'd say

895
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: you're in most of the bottle shops that I've ever

896
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 2: been to. You're probably in a lot of Australian bars now,

897
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 2: and a lot of Australians have probably tried it by

898
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: buying it.

899
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I buy it online, well, my office does when I

900
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: do buy it.

901
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,479
Speaker 2: Did you ever get to a point where you thought, oh, shit,

902
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 2: like this, this we've bitten off too much more than

903
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: we can chew, or this is overwhelming? Do you ever

904
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: get to that point the three of.

905
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: View, utterly, utterly overwhelming? And I think what's what's interesting

906
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: is you sometimes build a bit. Yeah. I think we

907
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: built a business that was a system, you know, and

908
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,240
Speaker 1: the system worked, and the different pieces of the system

909
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: were fueling each other our capacity. We could only have

910
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: built the business we did because of Cameron's endless capacity

911
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: to be inventive, because of Stew's endless capacity to take

912
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 1: these inventions and generate pr and coverage. And then the

913
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: team I built, and it's endless capacity to then take

914
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 1: each gin and go right. We're going to tell the

915
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: story of that. We're going to tell the stories of drinks.

916
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: We're going to shoot beautiful content we're going to inspire

917
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: people to buy it direct, we're going to back it

918
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: in the trade. And so the system worked, and it

919
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 1: made the most of the advantages we had. As that

920
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 1: system grew, you started to realize that the gears would

921
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: sometimes grind a little bit that we were I would

922
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: walk out of a meeting and oh my god, We've

923
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 1: got this amazing opportunity to make this new gin and

924
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: do this and this, and I'd look at the marketing

925
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,800
Speaker 1: team and they're all just gone white because we're on

926
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 1: a deadline to help figure out what's the summer campaign

927
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: that's going into Dan Murphy is in ten months time.

928
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: So the speeds and the rhythms are different. And then

929
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: you go to export a lot of those home ground advantageers,

930
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 1: those advantages of proximity and intimacy no longer have those.

931
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: The distributor that you hire in the UK just doesn't

932
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: care as much as you do. Like you've you've got

933
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: your one little gym business. They've got forty different brands

934
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: in their portfolio. They don't really they care about you

935
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 1: at best one fortieth as much as you do. So

936
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: you start to realize, okay, well, some of what got

937
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: us here in Australia help us over there, but also

938
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: we have to figure out some different ways of winning.

939
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: So that's I think when it becomes sometimes overwhelming, is

940
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 1: you realize you've built a system that wasn't necessarily built

941
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: to scale to the level you're at. Doesn't mean it

942
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: was wrong. In fact, it's only because of what you

943
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: did that got you this far. But to quote Marshall Goldsmith,

944
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 1: the leadership coach, what got you here won't necessarily get

945
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 1: you there. So that wrestling match between what do we

946
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: hold on to where do we stay the course, but

947
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: also where do we now adapt and tweak and maybe

948
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: question some of those assumptions. I think that's the that's

949
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: the constant battle, and sometimes it is a bit overwhelming.

950
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: So do you get to your point with your investment

951
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: with your capital, because you know, if you're when you

952
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 2: raise capital, you say you make some assumptions. You say, look,

953
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: we're going to need this runway and we need to

954
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: raise five hundred thousand dollars and that'll lasts us for

955
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: two years. And but you know we've done better than

956
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: as you said, we've done better than we expected. And

957
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: the valuation now is whatever foll bagger we need to

958
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 2: raise more money. Do you get to a point where

959
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,399
Speaker 2: the three of you thinking to yourself, am I giving

960
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: away too much equity? Is it worth it for me

961
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 2: to have you been able to maintain more than fifty

962
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: percent equity yourself through So.

963
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: We had a couple of events since since the ones

964
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: that we talked about at the start of the podcast,

965
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,480
Speaker 1: And I think they're driven by two factors. You know,

966
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: one is capital and one is cash flow, and they're

967
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: both important, right, and they're importantly distinct. And I would

968
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: have known nothing about this before I started Four Pillars

969
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: and I fil and they're far too much about that

970
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: and banking covenants and all those other important things. If

971
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: you're running a business, and I think you get to

972
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: the point from a cashflow point of view where your

973
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: mortgages are on the line, it's still connected to your

974
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: family's financial wellbeing, and you're like, these bets are getting bigger,

975
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: and we have to take bigger bets because at some

976
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: stage our appetite to take the risk required could become

977
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: a constraint on the growth of business. It's not that

978
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: we want to be inappropriately risky. We want to be

979
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: appropriately risky, but the business now needs a bigger risk

980
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: appetite than we have as individuals. So you start to

981
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: look at how do you pull those two things apart.

982
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: You also go these investors who joined us in twenty thirteen,

983
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: they deserve a good day at some stage, they deserve

984
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: some return maybe, and you go, we probably need some

985
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: more capital. So in the case of Heelsville, we had

986
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: bought in twenty fifteen and old timber shehed. We'd fitted

987
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: out quite cheaply, but it looked beautiful and it was

988
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: home to Wilma. Our first still, Jude, named after Stew's mama.

989
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: Second still my mum doesn't drink. She got the experimental

990
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: stell Eileen. So those three stills live there happily. Barrels

991
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: we age gins in a lovely space to taste and

992
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: make drinks. But we were outgrowing. We had queues out

993
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: the door every weekend. We were getting about ninety thousand

994
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: people a year through that space. We needed a bigger space,

995
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: We needed a bigger boat. So we raised some capital

996
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: and we found a wonderful partner in Line, Australia's Great

997
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: Boroh ultimately owned by Kieran, but a very Australian business.

998
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: Here the business of two two e's and four x

999
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: and stone of wood and little creatures. So they came in.

1000
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: They put some capital in to help us buy the

1001
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: building next door. They said, look, we'll guarantee a bit

1002
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: more funding to help you with your cash flow and

1003
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: the growth of your business, but we will leave you

1004
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 1: guys in full operational control. And we ran the business

1005
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: for four and a half years. So I chaired the board.

1006
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 1: Laren had two people on the board plus me and

1007
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: Stewing Cam very very happy, amicable, and would have been

1008
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: even more happy have we not had COVID come in,

1009
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: and then COVID followed by a supply chain crisis. So

1010
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: for those four and a half years, I think we

1011
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: were feeling very smart and very lucky that we had

1012
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 1: a big brother sort of standing over our shoulder, letting

1013
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: us run the race, really backing our theories, but also

1014
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 1: kind of knowing that you had a bit more muscle

1015
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: behind you if you needed it, and luckily we didn't,

1016
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: that you always knew it was there, And I think

1017
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 1: psychologically that period would have been very different. I don't

1018
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: know if we'd have made different decisions, but psychologically there

1019
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 1: was a level of safety that you had because of

1020
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: that backing, and then on the first of July twenty

1021
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: twenty three, they exercised the right to take out the

1022
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 1: remaining fifty percent of the business. So now I continue

1023
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: to consult, I continue to work on the business, but

1024
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: I no longer own.

1025
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 2: So you guys had a liquidity event, correct, you and

1026
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: your partners, So now Eline Nathan owns all of it.

1027
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 2: So they took out the original vents as well, Son

1028
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 2: Nathan ours and we and we stayed.

1029
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 1: We were firm that we stayed aligned with those investors throughout.

1030
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: So when Line took fifty percent, they took fifty percent

1031
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: off everyone. So all large investors sold out fifty percent,

1032
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: but stayed on the journey, and so they got to

1033
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: stay on the journey with us until ultimately we all

1034
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: sold our resting. Actually, so what's the difference when I

1035
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: mean in the business, so generally speaking, when they have it. Look,

1036
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: when a founder has a liquid event like that, a

1037
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: lot of founders just leave, they go there, you go off.

1038
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: What did someone like in multinational Line say they say, Okay, Matt,

1039
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: you've got to be restrained.

1040
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: We're going to pay. We can't get unied to go.

1041
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: We go and set up another one of these gin businesses.

1042
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 2: We want to keep you on board and keep you

1043
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: in the business as a consultant or in a role

1044
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: marketing or branding role. Is just explain how that works

1045
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: when you get by a multinational.

1046
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: It's a great question. And you know, I've seen this

1047
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: happen a lot in my old life of agencies. You know,

1048
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: people build up an advertising agency, then they try and

1049
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: sell it to a big holding company and they knew

1050
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: exactly right, they have a handcuff period. As soon as

1051
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,000
Speaker 1: that's ended, you never see them again. That was not

1052
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: the case. Here were the four and a half years

1053
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: that we worked together in partnership that effectively was the

1054
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: lock in period. And once that that sort of final,

1055
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: you know, once they executed their right to take the

1056
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: remaining capital, we could have all walked away. My view was,

1057
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: and all three of us were very amicable and very

1058
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,359
Speaker 1: keen to see it succeed. And I think we all

1059
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: just looked and went what contribution can we make? And

1060
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 1: as the as the brand guy, I'm like, I think

1061
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: there's a role for me to continue to play because

1062
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: the job is only half done. We've got this into

1063
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: thirty markets worldwide, but we are the leader in Australia.

1064
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: You know, in twenty twenty one we caught up and

1065
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: overtook Hendrix by volume. Hendricks had had sixty six zero

1066
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: percent of super premium gym in Australia when we started,

1067
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: and we ever took them in twenty one. But in

1068
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 1: markets overseas we are still a drop in the gen notion.

1069
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: So A there was a job to do there, but

1070
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,759
Speaker 1: B lined to great business. But it's a it's a

1071
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: beer an RTV business, it's an on tap business. It's

1072
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,359
Speaker 1: a pub driven business. You might call it a fast

1073
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: moving consumer good business. Spirits is luxury. Mine didn't have

1074
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: a spirit's business. Kieran, their parent company, had a couple

1075
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: of interesting spirits assets Fuji whiskey, Fantastic Japanese whiskey, four

1076
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,719
Speaker 1: Roses Bourbon out of Kentucky, So we said, well, why

1077
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: don't we help you now build a wider spirits business.

1078
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 1: So we've called it four Corners Global Spirits. It's a

1079
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: bit to b not a bitter C company. It's not

1080
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: consumer facing, it's trade facing. It includes not just four pillars,

1081
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: but Vanguard. We encourage Line to acquire the distributor that

1082
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 1: we'd worked with, So I've just sort of been working

1083
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 1: behind the scenes helping them both continue to grow four Pillars,

1084
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: but also start to think about what could a genuine

1085
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: Australian global spirits business be that took Australian spirits to

1086
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: the world as well as building, you know, bringing some

1087
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: great spirits into Australia, And is what is the reason

1088
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: you wrote your book. I wrote the book because I

1089
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: got really lucky. I met two people who knew a

1090
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: lot about the craft of making gin, and I knew

1091
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,399
Speaker 1: nothing about it, and I still know very little, as

1092
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: you saw in our discussion about Judipervari's and I think

1093
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 1: I was able to support their craft and their expertise

1094
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: and their passion with structured thinking about the business and

1095
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 1: the brand. Someone said to us, They're like, I figured

1096
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: out four pillars. Cameron makes the gin, Stu you make

1097
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,320
Speaker 1: the noise, and Matt you sort of makes sense. And

1098
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: in a way, the book was trying to extract the

1099
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,360
Speaker 1: making sense piece, because Stu does a lot more than

1100
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 1: making noise. He has got a brilliant entrepreneurial mind. Cameron

1101
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 1: does a lot more than making gin. He's got a

1102
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 1: great creative mind. But I think what I've brought is

1103
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: a slowness and a structure and a strategy to building

1104
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: the business and building the brand. And I thought, wouldn't

1105
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 1: it be good if I could give that to people

1106
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: as a structure to help them think about growing whatever

1107
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: it is they're trying to grow. Well.

1108
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 2: I think it's a great Australian story of you know,

1109
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: taking something from the very kernels of the original idea,

1110
00:50:52,440 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: branding it, building it, raising money, distributing it, getting it

1111
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:01,359
Speaker 2: in the psyche.

1112
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: Of everybody who knows about gin or at least uses

1113
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: gin and drink.

1114
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 2: It's just the greatest strange story, to be honest with you,

1115
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: that's a and then the ultimate having a liquid in

1116
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 2: event tour.

1117
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: Really, by the way, Line Nathan.

1118
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:14,879
Speaker 2: Is I don't know if they comes with Line Nathan

1119
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 2: or you caught lyone, but Line Nathan anyways, as I

1120
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 2: know them is a great owner of brands like Stonewood

1121
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 2: for example.

1122
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 1: They let things run their own course. They they don't

1123
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: don't go and interfere with it. I mean right. And

1124
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: James Brindley, the managing director of Line, you always would

1125
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: say to us, thank you for choosing us, Yeah, And

1126
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,920
Speaker 1: it was true it was a mutual choice. Like they

1127
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: saw the power in what we were building. But we

1128
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 1: also saw the power in the way that they invested

1129
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: in brands, let brands do their thing, and the way

1130
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: they valued Australia as a market. Because this, we can

1131
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,439
Speaker 1: underestimate how much opportunity there is even before you leave

1132
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 1: this continent. There's so much opportunity to grow great businesses here.

1133
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 2: Well, I want to say, I want to congratulate you

1134
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 2: and your partners who don't get to me, but congratulate

1135
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 2: you all the co founders of this great Australian Australian gin.

1136
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: Brand, and well done, mate.

1137
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: Like it's that's pretty quick o retenue period that not

1138
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 2: many businesses get built and sold and have a bit

1139
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: of COVID in the middle of it overtenu period. And

1140
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 2: not many businesses when they're owned by the new people

1141
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: retain any of.

1142
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: The original owners. But generally speaking they try to move

1143
00:52:24,239 --> 00:52:27,279
Speaker 1: them on and all those people move on. So well done, congratulations,

1144
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 1: this is a great Australian story. Thanks Mark,