1 00:00:05,881 --> 00:00:13,521 Speaker 1: Appolja Production. Welcome to another episode of Brave Always, the 2 00:00:13,601 --> 00:00:16,961 Speaker 1: CEO series. This series, we launch into the new world 3 00:00:17,081 --> 00:00:18,561 Speaker 1: of brave leadership. 4 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: Happy people create happy businesses, true. 5 00:00:21,281 --> 00:00:24,401 Speaker 1: Emotionally intelligent leadership. I've picked up vombit once on our 6 00:00:24,441 --> 00:00:26,881 Speaker 1: about our four flight and everybody thought, well, if it's 7 00:00:26,881 --> 00:00:28,601 Speaker 1: good enough for him, I can do it. Now we 8 00:00:28,641 --> 00:00:31,801 Speaker 1: will be joined by culture and leadership experts and some 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:35,881 Speaker 1: superstar CEOs who will courageously tell us the truth behind 10 00:00:35,921 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: their brave leadership journeys. And Welcome to another episode of 11 00:00:39,561 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: Brave Always. Brave stands for bold, resilient, authentic, vulnerable and 12 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,921 Speaker 1: empathetic leadership and a user's podcast to talk to CEOs, leaders, 13 00:00:50,001 --> 00:00:53,241 Speaker 1: business owners to really understand what their brave journey is, 14 00:00:53,361 --> 00:00:55,481 Speaker 1: because you know, getting to the top doesn't mean that 15 00:00:55,521 --> 00:00:57,401 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a great human. Now today's 16 00:00:57,441 --> 00:01:00,841 Speaker 1: a little bit different because I've got the incredible Jc here. 17 00:01:01,081 --> 00:01:02,801 Speaker 1: And if you don't know who JC is, well where 18 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,001 Speaker 1: have you been? He is the bass guitarist and founder 19 00:01:06,121 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: of powder Finger. And I'm seriously fangirling here and trying 20 00:01:09,441 --> 00:01:11,321 Speaker 1: to keep calm because this is the guy that I 21 00:01:11,481 --> 00:01:14,521 Speaker 1: rocked out to in my early twenties. JC was a 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,121 Speaker 1: founding member and the bass guitarist for powder Finger that 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: ran from nineteen eighty nine un till they retired in 24 00:01:19,481 --> 00:01:22,601 Speaker 1: twenty ten. Since he left powder Finger, he actually started 25 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,881 Speaker 1: up the Trifford, which is an amazing music venue here 26 00:01:24,881 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: in Brisbane in twenty fourteen, then went on to start 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: the Fortitude Valley Music Hall in twenty nineteen. He's a 28 00:01:31,881 --> 00:01:33,801 Speaker 1: member of the board of Q Music and a member 29 00:01:33,801 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: of the Order of Australia for services to arts through 30 00:01:36,441 --> 00:01:38,761 Speaker 1: music and to the community. So why am I talking 31 00:01:38,801 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: to this incredible musician today when you often hear me 32 00:01:41,441 --> 00:01:45,041 Speaker 1: talking to corporate CEOs. Well, the thing I've discovered about 33 00:01:45,081 --> 00:01:47,921 Speaker 1: Brave is it applies to everybody. And you know, whether 34 00:01:47,961 --> 00:01:51,401 Speaker 1: you're leading a large organization, a small organization, or you're 35 00:01:51,521 --> 00:01:53,841 Speaker 1: leading people in their lives, there's a story here to 36 00:01:53,841 --> 00:01:56,481 Speaker 1: be told and I think there's some fascinating synergies that 37 00:01:56,521 --> 00:01:58,681 Speaker 1: will come out of this chat today. And after hearing 38 00:01:58,761 --> 00:02:01,161 Speaker 1: from so many people what a legend this guy is, 39 00:02:01,241 --> 00:02:03,641 Speaker 1: I just had to have him on here. So welcome Jackie. 40 00:02:03,721 --> 00:02:05,561 Speaker 2: That's great to be here. That's a great raps the great, 41 00:02:05,561 --> 00:02:06,441 Speaker 2: greatest heart. Thank you. 42 00:02:06,681 --> 00:02:09,321 Speaker 1: So it would be completely remiss of me to deny 43 00:02:09,401 --> 00:02:12,721 Speaker 1: my leaders some nostalgia. Let's be fair, So let's flash 44 00:02:12,721 --> 00:02:15,481 Speaker 1: back quickly to nineteen eighty nine. I'll just call it 45 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,641 Speaker 1: that I was seven. Then you're a student at Brisbane 46 00:02:17,641 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: Grammar School and give and two mates decide to start 47 00:02:20,001 --> 00:02:23,081 Speaker 1: a band. So what I know of decisions made when 48 00:02:23,121 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: you're young, and what I've spoken to a few people 49 00:02:25,121 --> 00:02:27,081 Speaker 1: is often it doesn't feel like a bold decision. Like 50 00:02:27,121 --> 00:02:28,921 Speaker 1: I've said, was that a bold call? And they're like, 51 00:02:29,041 --> 00:02:30,761 Speaker 1: not really, it was more like what have I got 52 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,201 Speaker 1: to lose? Caution to the win kind of stuff. Was 53 00:02:33,201 --> 00:02:35,321 Speaker 1: that the case for you when you guys made this choice? 54 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,641 Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely. I think you don't realize until later on 55 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,921 Speaker 2: that you actually took a chance on yourself. You know, 56 00:02:40,121 --> 00:02:42,681 Speaker 2: you don't sort of think those ways when you're seventeen eighteen. 57 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:44,721 Speaker 2: So yeah, I think at the time, you think it's 58 00:02:44,761 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: going to be fun, you know, and I suppose you 59 00:02:47,321 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 2: believe that you've got something and that that you can 60 00:02:49,721 --> 00:02:51,681 Speaker 2: give to the other guys and be part of creat 61 00:02:51,761 --> 00:02:54,201 Speaker 2: something special. But at no stage you think this is 62 00:02:54,201 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: a really bold move. You know, historically look back and say, 63 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:58,841 Speaker 2: you know, it could have been. Luckily it was a 64 00:02:58,841 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 2: good move. 65 00:02:59,441 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, what was kind of the earliest heck up? 66 00:03:02,001 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: You kind of encountered. 67 00:03:03,481 --> 00:03:07,361 Speaker 2: Success, not having success? Yeah, not having success? Yeah, no, 68 00:03:07,401 --> 00:03:09,441 Speaker 2: I think we were from Brisbane. Brisbane at the time 69 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:11,001 Speaker 2: was a pretty hard market to break out of a 70 00:03:11,001 --> 00:03:14,001 Speaker 2: lot of bands before our generation of acts came through. 71 00:03:14,041 --> 00:03:17,481 Speaker 2: We're going to Sydney or UK and relocating. You couldn't 72 00:03:17,481 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: make it in Brisbane. No record company execs would fly 73 00:03:19,881 --> 00:03:22,161 Speaker 2: up and watch a band in Brisbane. I remember the comment, 74 00:03:22,321 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: like we were doing about a thousand people at a 75 00:03:24,081 --> 00:03:27,241 Speaker 2: show and someone said, it doesn't matter if they're doing 76 00:03:27,281 --> 00:03:28,841 Speaker 2: a thousand people in Brisbane, They're not doing a thousand 77 00:03:28,881 --> 00:03:31,121 Speaker 2: people in Sydney. Like so, I've got a chip in 78 00:03:31,121 --> 00:03:33,601 Speaker 2: my shoulder from that still there, you can still see it. Yeah, yeah, 79 00:03:33,841 --> 00:03:36,081 Speaker 2: I suppose that's That's the thing that we struggled with 80 00:03:36,201 --> 00:03:38,681 Speaker 2: as a band, a young band. But you know, with 81 00:03:38,761 --> 00:03:41,321 Speaker 2: that comes opportunity, I think as well, like we just 82 00:03:41,481 --> 00:03:44,041 Speaker 2: decided to jump in a car and travel and played 83 00:03:44,081 --> 00:03:46,001 Speaker 2: as many markets as we could and then to get 84 00:03:46,001 --> 00:03:46,601 Speaker 2: better as well. 85 00:03:47,121 --> 00:03:49,121 Speaker 1: Was it important for you to make a scene in 86 00:03:49,121 --> 00:03:50,561 Speaker 1: Brisbane though, Like when you said you've got a chip 87 00:03:50,561 --> 00:03:52,081 Speaker 1: on your shoulder. You wanted to prove that Brisbane. 88 00:03:52,241 --> 00:03:53,841 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I honestly do you think 89 00:03:53,841 --> 00:03:55,921 Speaker 2: so that in hindsight we look at that We're always 90 00:03:55,961 --> 00:03:58,401 Speaker 2: happy to talk with the media saying that we're happy 91 00:03:58,401 --> 00:04:00,241 Speaker 2: to spend a day in the car to go and 92 00:04:00,281 --> 00:04:02,281 Speaker 2: live in Brisbane because this is where our families and 93 00:04:02,321 --> 00:04:05,241 Speaker 2: mates were, and we'd brother live in a Queenslander, you know, 94 00:04:05,361 --> 00:04:08,001 Speaker 2: and have barbecues and play backyard cricket. I think we 95 00:04:08,041 --> 00:04:09,961 Speaker 2: would have struggled if we had to move together and 96 00:04:10,001 --> 00:04:12,401 Speaker 2: lived in a small unit in Sydney together. I think 97 00:04:12,881 --> 00:04:15,401 Speaker 2: so our method was just to have come home and 98 00:04:16,121 --> 00:04:18,041 Speaker 2: feel like how we grew up, you know, and be 99 00:04:18,121 --> 00:04:18,921 Speaker 2: around the people we love. 100 00:04:19,281 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: I love that you still live here, Yeah, I love it. Yeah, 101 00:04:21,681 --> 00:04:23,881 Speaker 1: that feels really special. So as the co founded it 102 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,041 Speaker 1: was banned, obviously you would have had some leader strengths 103 00:04:27,041 --> 00:04:29,481 Speaker 1: at that time, right, because obviously some band members changed 104 00:04:29,521 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: as time went on. What strengths do you think you 105 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,001 Speaker 1: bought the band back then? What was the thing that 106 00:04:33,081 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: jac bought. 107 00:04:34,041 --> 00:04:36,601 Speaker 2: I think early days I was pretty organized. I was 108 00:04:36,601 --> 00:04:37,961 Speaker 2: sort of one of the guys in the band that 109 00:04:38,001 --> 00:04:40,401 Speaker 2: would turn up on time, do things you know, and 110 00:04:40,481 --> 00:04:42,401 Speaker 2: knew where I was supposed to be. I think I've 111 00:04:42,401 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 2: always had a pretty good being able to be a 112 00:04:44,521 --> 00:04:48,001 Speaker 2: neutral character in terms of be prepared to meet when 113 00:04:48,001 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: I'm wrong and also be that person in the middle 114 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,441 Speaker 2: and try to keep things going or talk it out. 115 00:04:53,801 --> 00:04:55,401 Speaker 2: I'm not sort of that my way of the highway, 116 00:04:55,841 --> 00:04:57,601 Speaker 2: and I think that gets dangerous in the band. I 117 00:04:57,641 --> 00:04:59,281 Speaker 2: felt like that was my place in the band, and 118 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,241 Speaker 2: I've probably played to it as well, you know, So 119 00:05:01,361 --> 00:05:03,961 Speaker 2: I think particularly early on, you know, I remember when 120 00:05:03,961 --> 00:05:07,081 Speaker 2: we're touring when before I had a manager and he 121 00:05:07,081 --> 00:05:08,761 Speaker 2: didn't want to come to the road, say, got two 122 00:05:08,801 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: of them manage the band and be pulling up to 123 00:05:11,081 --> 00:05:13,601 Speaker 2: phone boxes and trying to say is that accommodation ready? 124 00:05:13,641 --> 00:05:15,361 Speaker 2: And collect the money in the night. So that was 125 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,041 Speaker 2: early days. So I suppose I had that part of 126 00:05:18,081 --> 00:05:19,041 Speaker 2: me was there. 127 00:05:19,241 --> 00:05:21,281 Speaker 1: Did the sort of your bandmates kind of allow you 128 00:05:21,281 --> 00:05:22,201 Speaker 1: to do that? Were happy? 129 00:05:22,281 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were happy someone was telling with so yeah, 130 00:05:24,841 --> 00:05:25,361 Speaker 2: they used. 131 00:05:25,281 --> 00:05:26,601 Speaker 1: To get you were the crazy one. 132 00:05:26,601 --> 00:05:28,881 Speaker 2: Then I still had a good time, though if you 133 00:05:28,921 --> 00:05:30,641 Speaker 2: ask other people, they say I was always up late 134 00:05:30,681 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: with ho heat, but that's okay. 135 00:05:33,081 --> 00:05:35,681 Speaker 1: So what was your big first live performance? Can you 136 00:05:35,761 --> 00:05:36,921 Speaker 1: flash me back? What was that one? 137 00:05:37,001 --> 00:05:38,801 Speaker 2: You look probably look at the big day outs. Yeah, 138 00:05:38,841 --> 00:05:40,881 Speaker 2: I know that was the probably first opportunity. You might 139 00:05:40,921 --> 00:05:43,721 Speaker 2: be playing at three o'clock or four o'clock, but there's 140 00:05:43,721 --> 00:05:46,001 Speaker 2: still thirty forty thousand people in front of you, and 141 00:05:46,041 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: you just sort of come out of that sort of 142 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 2: scene where you're playing clubs around one thousand and maybe 143 00:05:50,521 --> 00:05:53,481 Speaker 2: to fifteen hundred. Next minute you're playing to those massive 144 00:05:53,521 --> 00:05:56,201 Speaker 2: crowd and people know your songs, and so yeah, I 145 00:05:56,241 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 2: remember that very distinctly. 146 00:05:57,401 --> 00:05:59,241 Speaker 1: How do you feel like you're overwhelmed? 147 00:05:59,561 --> 00:06:01,921 Speaker 2: Nervous? I always just get nervous. I think nerves is 148 00:06:01,921 --> 00:06:04,201 Speaker 2: a good thing for me, It is anyway. But I 149 00:06:04,241 --> 00:06:06,201 Speaker 2: think you just so excit. It took a couple of 150 00:06:06,241 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: songs to sort of settle down, sort of walk out, 151 00:06:09,481 --> 00:06:11,121 Speaker 2: and we just look at each other and go, holy cow. 152 00:06:11,361 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: You know. With probably that young's more excitement. You know, 153 00:06:14,121 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: when something happens for the first time, it's really special. 154 00:06:16,721 --> 00:06:18,441 Speaker 2: You know, like first time you hear a song on 155 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,281 Speaker 2: the radio that's really special, or you know, you don't 156 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,081 Speaker 2: get it twice. Yeah, So I think that's sort of 157 00:06:24,121 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: the moment you capture and you sort of don't realize 158 00:06:25,921 --> 00:06:28,961 Speaker 2: until much later how important those moments were. You sort 159 00:06:29,001 --> 00:06:32,041 Speaker 2: of because you get in the groove of things, you know, yeah, 160 00:06:32,241 --> 00:06:34,561 Speaker 2: not expectations, but you just think you're living in the moment. 161 00:06:34,601 --> 00:06:36,681 Speaker 2: You're always in a groove. So yeah, it's not too 162 00:06:36,761 --> 00:06:38,721 Speaker 2: later you reflect on those to have. 163 00:06:38,681 --> 00:06:41,641 Speaker 1: Such highs, right, like those big moments of just like 164 00:06:41,801 --> 00:06:44,601 Speaker 1: wow and being so revered and so forth, like can 165 00:06:44,601 --> 00:06:46,441 Speaker 1: you ever compete with that again? Like is this kind 166 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,921 Speaker 1: of this feeling like it's never going to feel like 167 00:06:47,961 --> 00:06:49,601 Speaker 1: don't mean to be like Eldepress though, but do you 168 00:06:49,641 --> 00:06:50,241 Speaker 1: know what I mean, I. 169 00:06:50,681 --> 00:06:53,441 Speaker 2: Honestly do miss it. I honestly do. When we finished, too, 170 00:06:53,521 --> 00:06:56,241 Speaker 2: like without going too much into it, but you realize 171 00:06:56,241 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: how much pressure there was on us. You don't realize 172 00:06:58,641 --> 00:07:00,961 Speaker 2: there's pressure until you stop doing it, right, true, but 173 00:07:01,161 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: comes with pressures the highs, you know, and we had some, 174 00:07:04,081 --> 00:07:05,841 Speaker 2: you know, some of the greatest men playing shows in 175 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,481 Speaker 2: Bridgbe River Stage, doing five shows on our Sunsets tour, 176 00:07:09,601 --> 00:07:12,601 Speaker 2: or playing the Opera House steps with Credit House to 177 00:07:12,641 --> 00:07:16,081 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty thousand there. I mean, of course 178 00:07:17,041 --> 00:07:20,521 Speaker 2: I picked up but yeah, they're the things that are 179 00:07:20,561 --> 00:07:22,921 Speaker 2: really matter to you, and those highs. I still have 180 00:07:23,001 --> 00:07:25,121 Speaker 2: great time highs in my life, but they're pretty hard 181 00:07:25,121 --> 00:07:25,641 Speaker 2: to be honestly. 182 00:07:25,641 --> 00:07:26,801 Speaker 1: I just wondered, like you know, I know through a 183 00:07:26,841 --> 00:07:28,841 Speaker 1: lot of sporting players as well, who when their sporting 184 00:07:28,841 --> 00:07:32,521 Speaker 1: careers end, there is this really challenging period where you 185 00:07:32,601 --> 00:07:35,721 Speaker 1: kind of who am I and and I just sort 186 00:07:35,761 --> 00:07:37,441 Speaker 1: of wonder if that's the same sort of I suppose 187 00:07:37,441 --> 00:07:37,761 Speaker 1: it would be. 188 00:07:37,801 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: The music speaks my life as a band. We always 189 00:07:39,601 --> 00:07:42,801 Speaker 2: identified what we do closely with sporting people. If we 190 00:07:42,801 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: were playing well the back line where we work today, 191 00:07:44,761 --> 00:07:47,121 Speaker 2: the ball came out really nicely. And it's a little 192 00:07:47,121 --> 00:07:50,001 Speaker 2: bit like that because it does take five players to 193 00:07:50,241 --> 00:07:52,881 Speaker 2: click to make it a great performance. If you've got 194 00:07:52,881 --> 00:07:55,881 Speaker 2: your fullback having a shaker, it's really hard to all click, 195 00:07:55,921 --> 00:07:56,841 Speaker 2: do you know what I mean? So we used to 196 00:07:56,921 --> 00:07:58,281 Speaker 2: always talk of analogies of that. 197 00:07:58,361 --> 00:08:00,761 Speaker 1: Ehych may sort of do leadership sessis, especially around teams, 198 00:08:00,841 --> 00:08:03,441 Speaker 1: high performing teams. I always talk about sport and band 199 00:08:03,521 --> 00:08:06,761 Speaker 1: analogies because yeah, you need all the parts working. Can 200 00:08:06,801 --> 00:08:09,561 Speaker 1: you think of a moment where you felt looking back, Oh, 201 00:08:09,601 --> 00:08:11,601 Speaker 1: that was when I felt so exposed. I was my 202 00:08:11,681 --> 00:08:13,641 Speaker 1: most vulnerable probably later in life. 203 00:08:13,721 --> 00:08:16,001 Speaker 2: I feel more exposed today than I was in the band. 204 00:08:16,721 --> 00:08:18,761 Speaker 2: I think of the band, you know, we call it 205 00:08:18,841 --> 00:08:20,441 Speaker 2: the person who doesn't say anything. It just goes along 206 00:08:20,481 --> 00:08:23,481 Speaker 2: minimum chips, you know, So you can play a role 207 00:08:23,521 --> 00:08:24,881 Speaker 2: in the band. If you had five people just want 208 00:08:24,921 --> 00:08:26,041 Speaker 2: to talk over the top of each other, it's a 209 00:08:26,081 --> 00:08:28,521 Speaker 2: bit annoying. We shared the workload around with interviews and 210 00:08:29,001 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: the press and stuff. But yeah, I think I feel 211 00:08:31,201 --> 00:08:33,801 Speaker 2: more exposed now than I've ever felt because I'm alone. 212 00:08:34,401 --> 00:08:36,161 Speaker 2: For twenty years, I had the support of one or 213 00:08:36,161 --> 00:08:36,881 Speaker 2: two mates with me. 214 00:08:37,161 --> 00:08:40,561 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, thank you. So I talk about resilience and 215 00:08:40,641 --> 00:08:43,401 Speaker 1: brave as knowing and accepting that the obstacles are the 216 00:08:43,441 --> 00:08:45,281 Speaker 1: path right and the journey of the band suddenly had 217 00:08:45,321 --> 00:08:47,481 Speaker 1: its ups and downs. How did you face into that? 218 00:08:47,761 --> 00:08:49,881 Speaker 1: And you know, when things went wrong or things didn't 219 00:08:49,921 --> 00:08:51,801 Speaker 1: go to plan, and then how's that shaped how you 220 00:08:51,841 --> 00:08:52,841 Speaker 1: tackle challenges today? 221 00:08:53,081 --> 00:08:55,001 Speaker 2: You're not everything went right for us in our career, 222 00:08:55,041 --> 00:08:57,041 Speaker 2: which is nothing. Does we challenge it with sort of 223 00:08:57,121 --> 00:08:59,481 Speaker 2: within the group? I think we had really strong connection 224 00:08:59,641 --> 00:09:02,561 Speaker 2: with each other, and I think that's the way we 225 00:09:02,721 --> 00:09:05,961 Speaker 2: dealt with things. We dealt with it internally together. You know, 226 00:09:06,001 --> 00:09:08,641 Speaker 2: we learn early not to believe any hype. You know, 227 00:09:08,681 --> 00:09:10,361 Speaker 2: when we're going to New York and everyone's saying, you 228 00:09:10,361 --> 00:09:12,121 Speaker 2: guys are going to be the biggest thing. We're going 229 00:09:12,161 --> 00:09:14,641 Speaker 2: to stretch limb of fourteen people them there were two 230 00:09:14,641 --> 00:09:17,801 Speaker 2: of us getting driven around to interviews and just that 231 00:09:18,001 --> 00:09:20,281 Speaker 2: American sense of you guys are going to be huge. 232 00:09:20,601 --> 00:09:22,561 Speaker 2: We learned early not to listen. That We learned that 233 00:09:22,681 --> 00:09:24,921 Speaker 2: long time ago. So when things don't go well, you 234 00:09:25,001 --> 00:09:27,761 Speaker 2: sort of we became insula. We regrouped. I suppose that's 235 00:09:27,801 --> 00:09:29,961 Speaker 2: how we did it, you know, just go back and 236 00:09:29,961 --> 00:09:33,121 Speaker 2: do what we do, go and write songs, rehearse, stick 237 00:09:33,161 --> 00:09:34,921 Speaker 2: to what we know. And you know, we were really 238 00:09:34,961 --> 00:09:37,521 Speaker 2: lucky we had good management. You know, that sort of 239 00:09:37,601 --> 00:09:39,761 Speaker 2: dealt with a lot of external issues for us. Our 240 00:09:39,881 --> 00:09:43,121 Speaker 2: objective is to remain very independent at what's going on 241 00:09:43,161 --> 00:09:43,961 Speaker 2: the noise around us. 242 00:09:44,321 --> 00:09:46,721 Speaker 1: So that was something we really pretty impressive. I mean, 243 00:09:46,761 --> 00:09:49,241 Speaker 1: you're pretty young guys, and you know, get flown to 244 00:09:49,321 --> 00:09:52,001 Speaker 1: New all of SU's happening. It'd be normal for fame 245 00:09:52,041 --> 00:09:53,841 Speaker 1: to go to your head a little bit. How do 246 00:09:53,881 --> 00:09:55,481 Speaker 1: you guys sound so grand like this? Whole. We just 247 00:09:55,481 --> 00:09:57,401 Speaker 1: said to us Alves, we're going to stay level headed. 248 00:09:58,281 --> 00:10:00,601 Speaker 2: I think as a Brisbane thing, I think it's a 249 00:10:00,601 --> 00:10:03,041 Speaker 2: bit of our upbringing. We're all sort of Southeast Queens well, 250 00:10:03,161 --> 00:10:06,601 Speaker 2: mostly Brisbane and one coast coggsy the coast, so friends 251 00:10:06,601 --> 00:10:07,601 Speaker 2: wouldn't put up with that shit. 252 00:10:09,561 --> 00:10:11,281 Speaker 1: Pull your head in, Jason, I see the great network 253 00:10:11,321 --> 00:10:13,441 Speaker 1: of people that would bring you back down to easily. 254 00:10:13,481 --> 00:10:16,401 Speaker 2: Yeah, we had great relationships with their crew because we 255 00:10:16,401 --> 00:10:19,081 Speaker 2: also felt it wasn't asked, it was everybody creating this, 256 00:10:19,601 --> 00:10:21,361 Speaker 2: So that was that's part of as well. 257 00:10:21,801 --> 00:10:23,681 Speaker 1: It kind of leads me on to you know, because 258 00:10:23,681 --> 00:10:26,041 Speaker 1: people I know because I was in my twenties when 259 00:10:26,081 --> 00:10:28,641 Speaker 1: I was like listening to your music and people put 260 00:10:28,881 --> 00:10:31,121 Speaker 1: you know, band members on a pedestal. Right, how hard 261 00:10:31,201 --> 00:10:33,241 Speaker 1: is it then to stay authentic to who you are? 262 00:10:33,641 --> 00:10:33,761 Speaker 2: Like? 263 00:10:33,801 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: Are there times where you know you're having to do interviews, 264 00:10:36,521 --> 00:10:42,441 Speaker 1: You've probably got women throwing themselves at you. How hard 265 00:10:42,521 --> 00:10:44,441 Speaker 1: is it to see authentic when fame comes into play? 266 00:10:44,761 --> 00:10:46,801 Speaker 2: There was some challenges for us. You know, when someone 267 00:10:46,841 --> 00:10:48,761 Speaker 2: tries to put clothes on you that don't look great. 268 00:10:49,041 --> 00:10:51,081 Speaker 2: You're a photo shoot, you do two days of photo 269 00:10:51,081 --> 00:10:53,521 Speaker 2: shoots and someone puts you in stuff that just you 270 00:10:53,521 --> 00:10:55,961 Speaker 2: look like a bunch of idiots. That's hard. You just 271 00:10:56,001 --> 00:10:58,041 Speaker 2: have to say no. And we don't look like ourselves, 272 00:10:58,081 --> 00:11:01,521 Speaker 2: so we're just musicians. I think also, the fame and 273 00:11:01,561 --> 00:11:03,961 Speaker 2: Australia is different from fame in the US. In Australia 274 00:11:03,961 --> 00:11:06,921 Speaker 2: you can be a singer songwriter Paul Kelly and still 275 00:11:06,921 --> 00:11:08,281 Speaker 2: go and pub and have a bed, you know, on 276 00:11:08,281 --> 00:11:11,001 Speaker 2: a Friday night. I just don't think strands put musicians 277 00:11:11,041 --> 00:11:12,961 Speaker 2: up on that pedestal like they do in America, where 278 00:11:12,961 --> 00:11:15,161 Speaker 2: you walk in a room and everyone claps you. So 279 00:11:15,321 --> 00:11:16,841 Speaker 2: I don't think it was a big challenge for us. 280 00:11:16,801 --> 00:11:18,961 Speaker 1: When you say that, do you see yourselves as being 281 00:11:18,961 --> 00:11:21,001 Speaker 1: famous in Australia? Is that what you're telling me? Because 282 00:11:21,001 --> 00:11:22,881 Speaker 1: I remember being living in the UK and you were big. 283 00:11:22,961 --> 00:11:25,001 Speaker 2: I think there's a difference between the band being famous 284 00:11:25,001 --> 00:11:27,121 Speaker 2: and the people being famous. You know, I said, we 285 00:11:27,121 --> 00:11:29,281 Speaker 2: didn't live in Sydney. We weren't going to every opening, 286 00:11:29,441 --> 00:11:32,241 Speaker 2: walking every red carpet, being in who weekly. It wasn't 287 00:11:32,241 --> 00:11:34,441 Speaker 2: sort of our thing. Yeah, the bands, I really love 288 00:11:34,801 --> 00:11:37,521 Speaker 2: Radiohead and stuff like that, you know they're not doing that. 289 00:11:37,761 --> 00:11:39,161 Speaker 2: They're just creating great records. 290 00:11:39,321 --> 00:11:41,881 Speaker 1: So Patifinger went on to become a global success, collecting 291 00:11:41,921 --> 00:11:45,161 Speaker 1: five number one albums, eighteen ARE awards, three Opera Awards 292 00:11:45,161 --> 00:11:47,281 Speaker 1: and sales and more than two point five million albums. 293 00:11:47,521 --> 00:11:49,081 Speaker 1: For the band to split, there would have been a 294 00:11:49,081 --> 00:11:51,521 Speaker 1: lot of you know, a lot of thinking, thoughts and emotions. 295 00:11:51,801 --> 00:11:54,001 Speaker 1: What was the overwhelming feeling at the time. Did you 296 00:11:54,041 --> 00:11:54,881 Speaker 1: know what was next for you? 297 00:11:55,041 --> 00:11:56,601 Speaker 2: Was it sort of for me personally? 298 00:11:56,641 --> 00:11:56,881 Speaker 1: Yeah? 299 00:11:56,961 --> 00:11:59,601 Speaker 2: No, I had no idea. When we put tools down, 300 00:11:59,641 --> 00:12:02,041 Speaker 2: you suddenly realize I don't have to go do anything, 301 00:12:02,521 --> 00:12:04,441 Speaker 2: nothing to do, and that's when you sort of saw 302 00:12:04,441 --> 00:12:06,561 Speaker 2: the pressure coming off you. And you know, and I 303 00:12:06,601 --> 00:12:08,161 Speaker 2: said yes to a lot of things. I can go 304 00:12:08,161 --> 00:12:10,081 Speaker 2: that yes because I don't have to ask anyone yes, 305 00:12:10,121 --> 00:12:12,321 Speaker 2: I can go yes. And when overseas with the family 306 00:12:12,361 --> 00:12:15,161 Speaker 2: and went to Gary Island with my mates, and you know, 307 00:12:15,281 --> 00:12:17,201 Speaker 2: all those things I've said no to for years and 308 00:12:17,841 --> 00:12:19,481 Speaker 2: spent a year of saying yes, I think, yeah, then 309 00:12:19,521 --> 00:12:20,681 Speaker 2: you just have to shake your head and go, what 310 00:12:20,721 --> 00:12:22,121 Speaker 2: am I going to do now? I had really no 311 00:12:22,321 --> 00:12:24,481 Speaker 2: plans at that stage, which is sort of good. 312 00:12:24,801 --> 00:12:25,721 Speaker 1: Were you ready for it to end? 313 00:12:25,721 --> 00:12:28,001 Speaker 2: Then? Yes? And no, we could see the ride on 314 00:12:28,041 --> 00:12:30,201 Speaker 2: the wall, like we could see the tools and it's 315 00:12:30,201 --> 00:12:33,721 Speaker 2: small and end up playing crappy rooms. And that's something 316 00:12:33,761 --> 00:12:35,481 Speaker 2: we never really wanted to do. I think we wanted 317 00:12:35,481 --> 00:12:38,121 Speaker 2: to sort of go out on our terms. Ye, you know, 318 00:12:38,361 --> 00:12:39,801 Speaker 2: that was something we spoke about. I mean, there was 319 00:12:39,841 --> 00:12:42,681 Speaker 2: a couple different opinions and how we do what we do. 320 00:12:42,961 --> 00:12:45,001 Speaker 2: Someone in the band didn't want to really break up, 321 00:12:45,041 --> 00:12:47,161 Speaker 2: just want to take a long break. But in the day, 322 00:12:47,361 --> 00:12:48,961 Speaker 2: sort it was a decision. We all came together. It 323 00:12:49,081 --> 00:12:51,881 Speaker 2: was a group decision that we all lived with. We 324 00:12:51,961 --> 00:12:53,841 Speaker 2: got asked that question about reunions and stuff. We get 325 00:12:53,841 --> 00:12:54,761 Speaker 2: on really well as a band. 326 00:12:55,441 --> 00:12:56,201 Speaker 1: I wasn't going to ask you that. 327 00:12:56,241 --> 00:12:58,521 Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, there's no plans I can say it now. 328 00:12:58,881 --> 00:13:00,241 Speaker 2: But you know, it's a great thing that we still 329 00:13:00,241 --> 00:13:02,801 Speaker 2: get on as friends. We have business together, we're still 330 00:13:02,841 --> 00:13:06,201 Speaker 2: releasing records, greatest hits and all those sorts of things. 331 00:13:06,201 --> 00:13:08,401 Speaker 2: And so one Night Lonely was a great example for 332 00:13:08,921 --> 00:13:11,881 Speaker 2: us getting together as mates again. It's also exciting and sad, 333 00:13:12,001 --> 00:13:13,961 Speaker 2: you know. I remember being pretty emotional the last night 334 00:13:13,961 --> 00:13:17,081 Speaker 2: at the River stage, like for me and Cogs, I 335 00:13:17,121 --> 00:13:20,321 Speaker 2: suppose the drama it was probably difference like burned and 336 00:13:20,441 --> 00:13:21,881 Speaker 2: holding and darn, what was going to go and play 337 00:13:21,921 --> 00:13:24,121 Speaker 2: in stage? Is that size? Again? I knew it wasn't 338 00:13:24,161 --> 00:13:26,801 Speaker 2: for me. Yeah right, it wasn't something I planned to 339 00:13:26,841 --> 00:13:28,961 Speaker 2: do and go and play another band. So yeah, it's 340 00:13:28,961 --> 00:13:30,881 Speaker 2: felt like that was It took me a while to 341 00:13:30,881 --> 00:13:32,521 Speaker 2: get into my next sort of phase of life. 342 00:13:32,641 --> 00:13:34,441 Speaker 1: You took a year off, had a gap year, yes, 343 00:13:34,521 --> 00:13:36,241 Speaker 1: yet I call it yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. 344 00:13:36,281 --> 00:13:38,561 Speaker 1: I love that we sort of fast tracked, sort of 345 00:13:38,561 --> 00:13:40,241 Speaker 1: wanted to touch on COVID because obviously you were in 346 00:13:40,321 --> 00:13:42,081 Speaker 1: the midst of doing things during that period. You know, 347 00:13:42,121 --> 00:13:44,081 Speaker 1: it really did change the landscape for the arts and 348 00:13:44,161 --> 00:13:46,081 Speaker 1: music scene, and not for the better. It really it 349 00:13:46,121 --> 00:13:48,201 Speaker 1: felt like music to shut down. I imagine it may 350 00:13:48,241 --> 00:13:50,721 Speaker 1: have been easier to walk away at that time. Like 351 00:13:50,761 --> 00:13:52,481 Speaker 1: at the time if you look at twenty nineteen, that 352 00:13:52,561 --> 00:13:56,161 Speaker 1: was when you were doing work with the Fortitude Musical. 353 00:13:56,681 --> 00:13:58,321 Speaker 1: What's going on for you? Then? Are you just like, 354 00:13:58,401 --> 00:14:00,761 Speaker 1: are you bloody kidding me? Like COVID's just hit and 355 00:14:01,121 --> 00:14:02,921 Speaker 1: you know, like probably one of the worst times for 356 00:14:02,961 --> 00:14:03,521 Speaker 1: this industry. 357 00:14:03,681 --> 00:14:05,681 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was horrible. I mean we're just open lot 358 00:14:05,921 --> 00:14:09,281 Speaker 2: to six months I think before COVID started. The industry 359 00:14:09,281 --> 00:14:11,881 Speaker 2: doesn't know what to do, quite honestly, how to recover 360 00:14:11,961 --> 00:14:14,041 Speaker 2: from it. At the moment, you know, we were involved 361 00:14:14,041 --> 00:14:17,081 Speaker 2: in the festival market with Splendor. Our group was you 362 00:14:17,121 --> 00:14:20,441 Speaker 2: see the grassroots music now is struggling to sell tickets. 363 00:14:20,601 --> 00:14:22,921 Speaker 2: I found really incredibly unfair that you'd have fifty thousand 364 00:14:22,921 --> 00:14:25,401 Speaker 2: people at s own Court Stadium and we're already allowed 365 00:14:25,841 --> 00:14:27,921 Speaker 2: thirty per cent of our crowd. That was when I 366 00:14:27,961 --> 00:14:30,241 Speaker 2: probably started becoming an advocate for the industry. I sort 367 00:14:30,241 --> 00:14:32,401 Speaker 2: of felt like it wasn't so much I wanted to it. 368 00:14:32,601 --> 00:14:34,601 Speaker 2: I felt like everyone stood back. I was a guy 369 00:14:34,681 --> 00:14:36,921 Speaker 2: standing in the line, only guy left in the line 370 00:14:36,961 --> 00:14:39,481 Speaker 2: because I was a bit disappointed in honestly, some of 371 00:14:39,521 --> 00:14:41,441 Speaker 2: the industry just didn't get out and fight. And so 372 00:14:41,721 --> 00:14:43,721 Speaker 2: with a good friend of mine, came up with a 373 00:14:43,801 --> 00:14:46,241 Speaker 2: campaign called play Fair, and we had sporting stars like 374 00:14:46,321 --> 00:14:49,601 Speaker 2: Darren Lockyer, Johnny Iil's and celebrities. All these people were 375 00:14:49,601 --> 00:14:52,361 Speaker 2: saying it's time to play fair premiere and it wasn't 376 00:14:52,361 --> 00:14:53,841 Speaker 2: about how we could make money. It was about how 377 00:14:53,841 --> 00:14:55,921 Speaker 2: we could survive as a venue business, and not just 378 00:14:56,081 --> 00:14:58,481 Speaker 2: the venues in Queensland. The objective was to bring the 379 00:14:58,481 --> 00:15:01,001 Speaker 2: government to the table for discussion, so which it did, 380 00:15:01,041 --> 00:15:03,641 Speaker 2: so it was a really great outcome. They didn't want 381 00:15:03,681 --> 00:15:06,881 Speaker 2: to change the restrictions on the industry, but they did 382 00:15:07,001 --> 00:15:10,681 Speaker 2: offer financial support, which was necessary to keep the lights on. 383 00:15:10,761 --> 00:15:12,521 Speaker 2: So a lot of the venues would have closed or 384 00:15:12,561 --> 00:15:15,441 Speaker 2: been brought up by multinational companies during COVID. So, yeah, 385 00:15:15,641 --> 00:15:17,801 Speaker 2: that was sort of my first, really first time being 386 00:15:17,801 --> 00:15:21,441 Speaker 2: exposed out there, sort of rallying for the industry. And 387 00:15:21,681 --> 00:15:23,361 Speaker 2: when you do that, you put yourself in that position, 388 00:15:23,721 --> 00:15:24,801 Speaker 2: you're going to get your critics. 389 00:15:25,241 --> 00:15:27,121 Speaker 1: You took some time off after the band, the Trippic 390 00:15:27,241 --> 00:15:29,481 Speaker 1: was your first decided to move into the background and 391 00:15:29,521 --> 00:15:32,121 Speaker 1: the arts and venues, which I think is fantastic. Then 392 00:15:32,201 --> 00:15:34,121 Speaker 1: to get hit with that in that period when everything 393 00:15:34,161 --> 00:15:35,961 Speaker 1: kind of shut down, did you stop at that moment 394 00:15:36,001 --> 00:15:38,161 Speaker 1: and think, maybe this isn't the right path that I've taken, 395 00:15:38,201 --> 00:15:40,001 Speaker 1: because you sort of from what I understand, you dabbled 396 00:15:40,001 --> 00:15:41,361 Speaker 1: in a few things. You thought you might dabble in 397 00:15:41,361 --> 00:15:41,721 Speaker 1: a few things. 398 00:15:41,761 --> 00:15:45,041 Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked at motor racing business, looked at buying 399 00:15:45,041 --> 00:15:47,041 Speaker 2: a printing business with the mates and stuff like that. 400 00:15:47,121 --> 00:15:48,801 Speaker 2: Just you know, silent partner sort of stuff, and I 401 00:15:48,841 --> 00:15:50,481 Speaker 2: now I realized that, you know what am I doing? 402 00:15:50,521 --> 00:15:52,641 Speaker 2: I love the music industry. It's what I believe, I know. 403 00:15:52,761 --> 00:15:54,801 Speaker 2: And with the Triff, I thought there was a gap 404 00:15:54,841 --> 00:15:56,201 Speaker 2: for a venue that size in Brisbane. 405 00:15:56,201 --> 00:15:57,921 Speaker 1: Was there a bit of a gamble getting there done? 406 00:15:58,041 --> 00:16:01,641 Speaker 2: That was probably the bravest thing did probably right. I 407 00:16:01,681 --> 00:16:04,041 Speaker 2: did have a partner and then they pulled out last minute. 408 00:16:04,081 --> 00:16:07,641 Speaker 2: So and we're three quarters through the build on financing 409 00:16:07,641 --> 00:16:08,081 Speaker 2: at all. 410 00:16:08,041 --> 00:16:10,001 Speaker 1: You with a sensible one, right, but obviously you're taking 411 00:16:10,001 --> 00:16:11,601 Speaker 1: a risk not knowing exactly what's going to be on 412 00:16:11,641 --> 00:16:12,041 Speaker 1: the other side. 413 00:16:12,041 --> 00:16:13,361 Speaker 2: I think I've got that farry into it. I had 414 00:16:13,361 --> 00:16:17,681 Speaker 2: to keep going, you know, you just have to work 415 00:16:17,721 --> 00:16:19,921 Speaker 2: one step at a time. You know something's not great, 416 00:16:19,921 --> 00:16:21,841 Speaker 2: you just sort of go, okay, what's the process from here, 417 00:16:21,881 --> 00:16:24,081 Speaker 2: what's the outcoming? And then you work back from the outcome, 418 00:16:24,201 --> 00:16:25,841 Speaker 2: you know, found another business partner to come in and 419 00:16:25,921 --> 00:16:28,481 Speaker 2: chair on the load financial burden. Yeah, but I was Yeah, 420 00:16:28,521 --> 00:16:29,761 Speaker 2: it was pretty exposed at the time. 421 00:16:29,881 --> 00:16:32,801 Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the Fortgy Music Valley will starts just 422 00:16:32,881 --> 00:16:34,321 Speaker 1: when COVID starts to kick in. 423 00:16:34,441 --> 00:16:36,921 Speaker 2: Yeah, opens just before COVID, And that was tough, you know, 424 00:16:37,041 --> 00:16:39,041 Speaker 2: talking about resilience and things like that. You know, I 425 00:16:39,041 --> 00:16:41,521 Speaker 2: think the hardest thing, apart from all the financial burden 426 00:16:41,601 --> 00:16:44,961 Speaker 2: and all those challenges, was to keep the staff motivated. 427 00:16:45,201 --> 00:16:49,161 Speaker 2: You're so stressed and depressed about it, but you couldn't sharp. Yeah, 428 00:16:49,201 --> 00:16:51,521 Speaker 2: you had to be strong at all the Zoom meetings 429 00:16:51,521 --> 00:16:53,801 Speaker 2: and whatever you're doing. You just had to be that 430 00:16:53,961 --> 00:16:56,841 Speaker 2: resilient looking you know, and then behind doors you're sort 431 00:16:56,841 --> 00:16:59,441 Speaker 2: of like, holy, okay, this is pretty bad because I 432 00:16:59,441 --> 00:17:01,361 Speaker 2: didn't expect to go on that long spurs, and I 433 00:17:01,401 --> 00:17:04,241 Speaker 2: think that was the thing that really drained a lot 434 00:17:04,241 --> 00:17:08,921 Speaker 2: of energy industry was just exhausted because we canceled to 435 00:17:09,001 --> 00:17:12,761 Speaker 2: move five hundred shows. That's being scheduling, a lot of 436 00:17:12,761 --> 00:17:15,281 Speaker 2: work involved in that, just kicking the ball down the 437 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,241 Speaker 2: road and having to budget what crystal ball do you want? 438 00:17:18,321 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: But yeah, the tough heart was not showing it, not 439 00:17:21,561 --> 00:17:24,321 Speaker 2: showing your vulnerability and to the staff in that period 440 00:17:24,321 --> 00:17:26,041 Speaker 2: because they needed to see someone strong. 441 00:17:26,481 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: I do agree people need to have someone steering the ship. 442 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: But then at the same token, knowing it's okay that 443 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,001 Speaker 1: this is actually quite upsetting and frustrating. 444 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,321 Speaker 2: I always made sure that then wee could come and 445 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,360 Speaker 2: have a cry on my couch because it was tough 446 00:17:39,681 --> 00:17:41,001 Speaker 2: at the end of the day. They need to see 447 00:17:41,201 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: someone out there sort of not moping around saying this 448 00:17:44,001 --> 00:17:44,801 Speaker 2: is shit and this is. 449 00:17:44,761 --> 00:17:46,521 Speaker 1: Shit so no, and not giving up hope. 450 00:17:46,561 --> 00:17:46,761 Speaker 2: Right. 451 00:17:46,801 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: I think that your passion for music probably, like if 452 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 1: you weren't in the music industry and had that passion 453 00:17:51,721 --> 00:17:54,001 Speaker 1: for it, it could easily have waned a bit. But 454 00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: surely JC has a way of distressing, like do you 455 00:17:57,281 --> 00:17:59,521 Speaker 1: go home and like crank out the guitar, Like what 456 00:17:59,561 --> 00:18:01,521 Speaker 1: are you doing to a very chill man. 457 00:18:01,481 --> 00:18:03,961 Speaker 2: I play gold fishing. Don't mind a glass of wine 458 00:18:04,001 --> 00:18:06,241 Speaker 2: on the end of the week. Who doesn't have for work? 459 00:18:06,281 --> 00:18:09,361 Speaker 1: Do you sleep well? Used to busy mind kind of thing? Well, 460 00:18:09,441 --> 00:18:11,281 Speaker 1: I'm just looking for personal tips because. 461 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: I sleep really well. I know, I just find out. 462 00:18:14,041 --> 00:18:17,761 Speaker 2: It's a little bit different where I'm up at three thirty. Yes, yes, 463 00:18:17,921 --> 00:18:20,481 Speaker 2: And that's sort of most nights. It's pretty stressful time 464 00:18:20,481 --> 00:18:22,161 Speaker 2: at the moment with everyone with the world the way 465 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,801 Speaker 2: it is, and you know, one of our venues is 466 00:18:23,801 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: growing great now that one. It's tough times, so that 467 00:18:26,041 --> 00:18:26,761 Speaker 2: keeps you up at night. 468 00:18:26,961 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, For aud I understand the way it always 469 00:18:29,721 --> 00:18:32,801 Speaker 1: seems like is that sometimes the musician is the last 470 00:18:32,801 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: person to get the money when it comes to events 471 00:18:34,961 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: and things like that, And so you would have been 472 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,681 Speaker 1: on the receiving it of that and your very early days, 473 00:18:38,721 --> 00:18:41,041 Speaker 1: particularly before you guys had record labels and were making 474 00:18:41,041 --> 00:18:43,521 Speaker 1: good money. Now you're on the other side of the 475 00:18:43,561 --> 00:18:46,921 Speaker 1: fence where you run the venues, right, How does that 476 00:18:47,001 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: play out for you? Is there a level of empathy 477 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: you have for musicians, particularly starting musicians that sort of 478 00:18:53,201 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: is different the way you interact with them or the 479 00:18:54,961 --> 00:18:56,281 Speaker 1: way you run your business. 480 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,001 Speaker 2: The business is sort of pretty standardized across the country 481 00:18:59,041 --> 00:19:01,481 Speaker 2: the way people do it, I suppose. The way I 482 00:19:01,521 --> 00:19:04,561 Speaker 2: do try to influence that area is to give particularly 483 00:19:04,561 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 2: young artists great experiences in great space, good writer burgers, 484 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,041 Speaker 2: stuff that matters to them. They're not making a lot 485 00:19:11,041 --> 00:19:13,721 Speaker 2: of money, they're doing because they love it and really 486 00:19:13,721 --> 00:19:15,761 Speaker 2: create a good experience when they enter the venue. That 487 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: comes from me, goes through the management, and it works. 488 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 2: It's really well known, particularly the smaller any of the 489 00:19:20,441 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 2: Triffid where we do go extra extra yards to make 490 00:19:22,961 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: sure the younger artists are treated well. I remember how 491 00:19:25,201 --> 00:19:27,121 Speaker 2: much that made a difference. You know, we don't take 492 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,841 Speaker 2: merch cuts and stuff like that, so they can pay 493 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,201 Speaker 2: their hotel rooms and things like that. 494 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,201 Speaker 1: Maybe it's influenced the way you interact with them because 495 00:19:34,241 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: you'd be on the other side. 496 00:19:35,201 --> 00:19:36,001 Speaker 2: Definitely has It. 497 00:19:35,921 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: Applies to workforces too, like the power of knowing what 498 00:19:38,681 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: your people go through, right, in this case, what the 499 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,360 Speaker 1: musicians are going through, so that you can tailor the 500 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:45,441 Speaker 1: experience for them to be more joyful. Right, that's kind 501 00:19:45,441 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 1: of all people are hoping for at the end of 502 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,801 Speaker 1: the day. What about now that you know, so when 503 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,441 Speaker 1: you were back in the band, you know, I'm sure 504 00:19:50,481 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: you had bad manager and someone who dealt with all 505 00:19:52,201 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: the young stuff, let's call it young stuff. Now that 506 00:19:55,321 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: you're on the other side of the fans, you're becoming 507 00:19:57,761 --> 00:20:01,121 Speaker 1: across dealing with difficult people in business, lots of red 508 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: tape and political decisions, things like that. What do you 509 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: find most challenging running businesses? 510 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 2: Now? You know, communicating my team, you know, I just 511 00:20:08,441 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 2: say if you think we should be strong to speaks 512 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: really strong and I'll back you on that, you know, 513 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,521 Speaker 2: just given opportunities to do it themselves and stuff, and 514 00:20:14,521 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 2: I don't want to be the person to have to 515 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,761 Speaker 2: come in and sort problems out for them because that 516 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,201 Speaker 2: doesn't build relationships and stuff. So I really rely heavily 517 00:20:21,241 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 2: on the people are putting those positions. And I always 518 00:20:23,441 --> 00:20:25,601 Speaker 2: talk about tone stuff too, like an email. So I'm 519 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,640 Speaker 2: big on tone. I think tone is everything way you 520 00:20:28,681 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 2: communicate with people. You can be asked for something really horrible, 521 00:20:32,001 --> 00:20:34,801 Speaker 2: but if the tones are right, it's read better. You know, 522 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:35,481 Speaker 2: it's understood. 523 00:20:35,561 --> 00:20:36,961 Speaker 1: You're one of the first people that I've ever said 524 00:20:36,961 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: that to me. Really, Yeah, it's really interesting because I 525 00:20:39,921 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 1: one hundred percent or deliveries all of it right. And 526 00:20:42,681 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: maybe there's some lovely link here between tone and the 527 00:20:45,481 --> 00:20:47,921 Speaker 1: fact that you're a musician. I don't know. Yeah, even 528 00:20:47,961 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: the tone of the melody like can change an emotion 529 00:20:51,041 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: and a feeling. I totally agree. The way you deliver 530 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,200 Speaker 1: a message can still be the same message delivered in 531 00:20:55,201 --> 00:20:57,241 Speaker 1: a way that doesn't feel. 532 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,321 Speaker 2: Instead of putting a big block up. I've had a 533 00:20:59,321 --> 00:21:01,321 Speaker 2: couple of people in their tone has been horrible. It's 534 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 2: just been and I wasn't sure if they're arrogant or 535 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: they're busy, and could have been both. So I just 536 00:21:06,241 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 2: have to pick up the phone say hey, am I 537 00:21:07,721 --> 00:21:12,041 Speaker 2: misreading this because it was so rudely written and you 538 00:21:12,041 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: know it could have been considered as really aggressive or 539 00:21:14,961 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 2: was it busy? I just couldn't tell so to me. 540 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,081 Speaker 1: So you see clarity from people where be I don't. 541 00:21:19,921 --> 00:21:22,041 Speaker 2: Understand it, you know before I start firing back, because 542 00:21:22,441 --> 00:21:25,041 Speaker 2: I think negative tone gives your negative tone back. Yeah, 543 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,001 Speaker 2: you know, it's an opportunity to start a little war. 544 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,481 Speaker 1: Really for me, it is actually yeah, and it could 545 00:21:29,481 --> 00:21:31,001 Speaker 1: be nothing and it could be nothing to do with you, 546 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:31,961 Speaker 1: and so. 547 00:21:32,001 --> 00:21:33,321 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of thing Ilway was talked to the 548 00:21:33,321 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 2: teams just about making sure the emails and tone is 549 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,041 Speaker 2: really important to me. 550 00:21:37,321 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: If I went and interviewed some of your staff members, 551 00:21:39,201 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: why do you think that they like working for you? 552 00:21:40,921 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: You're a good leader. 553 00:21:41,961 --> 00:21:44,561 Speaker 2: I know what I'd hope they'd say, I've never yelled 554 00:21:44,561 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 2: at anyone. You don't need to. 555 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: I think I believe that they need to. 556 00:21:48,321 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 2: You know, you can get your message across firmly without 557 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 2: yelling and abusing people. 558 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:53,521 Speaker 1: Did you grow up in a family like that? Can 559 00:21:53,561 --> 00:21:55,001 Speaker 1: I ask? Is that where it came from? 560 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: I went to a boarding skills so I feel like 561 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:56,801 Speaker 2: I was. 562 00:21:57,201 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, like you would have got 563 00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: webs there, wouldn't you. 564 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably literally literally. I suppose just growing up with 565 00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:07,321 Speaker 2: you know, hundred city other males and you probably learn 566 00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 2: how to be reasonable. 567 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: I don't make you more much. I will sort of 568 00:22:09,961 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: like needing to maybe. 569 00:22:11,001 --> 00:22:13,801 Speaker 2: I don't know, it's a good question, look at Sorry, 570 00:22:13,801 --> 00:22:15,201 Speaker 2: I might need a couch for that one. 571 00:22:15,241 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: I think trying to work out why this man. You've 572 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: got a lovely, calm demeanor about you, which I can 573 00:22:20,041 --> 00:22:22,801 Speaker 1: imagine employees would feel really receptive to. 574 00:22:22,961 --> 00:22:24,961 Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so well. As I said, like, don't 575 00:22:25,001 --> 00:22:26,721 Speaker 2: yell at people. I don't like when it gets too 576 00:22:26,721 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 2: business either. I try to light in the room up occasionally. 577 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,321 Speaker 2: We've all got a job to do, Yeah, But I 578 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:32,921 Speaker 2: hate when it gets to the point where that's all 579 00:22:32,921 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: it's about. Because we're working in an industry we all 580 00:22:35,441 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 2: apparently love. I think it's important to make sure that 581 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,881 Speaker 2: we enjoy each other's company in the room and enjoy 582 00:22:40,921 --> 00:22:42,761 Speaker 2: each other's work. There's got to be a thing where 583 00:22:42,761 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 2: you've got to make it not so serious, because it 584 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 2: really frustrates when it comes up, because then it becomes 585 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 2: a big business and that's not what we're about. You know, 586 00:22:49,721 --> 00:22:52,041 Speaker 2: we're about experiences. People come to the venues we're it's 587 00:22:52,041 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: about experience of the artists. You create that by creating 588 00:22:55,001 --> 00:22:57,601 Speaker 2: team that has the same philosophy, I believe. So that's 589 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,721 Speaker 2: the way I've come from, and I just try to 590 00:22:59,761 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: be a good person to them and treating like friends. 591 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: I feel that you got the joy part that I'm 592 00:23:03,561 --> 00:23:05,481 Speaker 1: a bit obsessed about joy in life, like otherwise it's 593 00:23:05,481 --> 00:23:07,561 Speaker 1: a pretty sad existence and it sounds like you're trying 594 00:23:07,561 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: to get some balance with that. 595 00:23:09,561 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 2: I also believe. And if someone does something great, just 596 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,161 Speaker 2: go and tell them. I think the young generation really 597 00:23:14,281 --> 00:23:16,001 Speaker 2: respond to that really well as well. You know that 598 00:23:16,041 --> 00:23:18,721 Speaker 2: the people I've got working for us now work hard, 599 00:23:18,921 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 2: and when they work hard, I think they deserve credit. 600 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:23,041 Speaker 2: You know something really I find important. 601 00:23:23,201 --> 00:23:25,521 Speaker 1: Well, it's the one thing that you want to keep 602 00:23:25,521 --> 00:23:27,281 Speaker 1: working on when it comes to being a good leader. 603 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,361 Speaker 1: Like it's kind of the eerie that you're like, oh yeah, 604 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: prob still struggle bit with that. 605 00:23:30,521 --> 00:23:33,481 Speaker 2: I struggle with technology, but that's not a leader of 606 00:23:33,481 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 2: it that. 607 00:23:35,241 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you that one. That's fine. 608 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,041 Speaker 2: I can't say it. I suppose because I'm older and 609 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: you know, teams are quite young. I suppose if I 610 00:23:41,441 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 2: can just improve my skills that way, then I can 611 00:23:43,001 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 2: relate to them a little bit easier. Okay, you know, 612 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 2: and I understand social media stuff better. And you know, 613 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:50,001 Speaker 2: I'm glad it wasn't around when pad thing was around 614 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,521 Speaker 2: like it is now people are working with a crown 615 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,041 Speaker 2: up where it's natural, because then I could probably click 616 00:23:54,041 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 2: a bit better with them. 617 00:23:55,521 --> 00:23:57,481 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, uncommon interest to bomb with you. 618 00:23:57,681 --> 00:24:00,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I feel like a bit like they've probably 619 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:01,921 Speaker 2: seen to be a bit dad like something, you know, 620 00:24:01,961 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 2: because you know, I'm pretty shit at it. So my 621 00:24:04,801 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 2: start put back that up. 622 00:24:06,441 --> 00:24:09,001 Speaker 1: They fix everything for you. Have you got like giant 623 00:24:09,001 --> 00:24:10,001 Speaker 1: font on your phone too? 624 00:24:10,241 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 2: Yeap? Oh damn? 625 00:24:11,241 --> 00:24:13,241 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I'm going to get a couple of questions. 626 00:24:13,241 --> 00:24:14,961 Speaker 1: We haven't got much more time so much Mirekeah talks 627 00:24:14,961 --> 00:24:17,001 Speaker 1: you about. But I know you inspire many people, But 628 00:24:17,041 --> 00:24:18,001 Speaker 1: who inspires you? 629 00:24:18,441 --> 00:24:21,721 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question. You know, people like Mineralal 630 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,961 Speaker 2: inspired us as people their awareness in the community and 631 00:24:25,041 --> 00:24:27,801 Speaker 2: what they gave back and the way they used in 632 00:24:27,801 --> 00:24:30,721 Speaker 2: the Australian music industry to influence things. And I think 633 00:24:30,721 --> 00:24:33,321 Speaker 2: that's inspiring or it's was to us as a band 634 00:24:33,321 --> 00:24:35,801 Speaker 2: as well. You know, I get inspired by people like 635 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,041 Speaker 2: Paul Patiko, who was a manager a powdered finger who 636 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, runs secret sounds and is resilient, explaining the 637 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 2: grass all that sort of stuff. So when you know, 638 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,281 Speaker 2: I remember walking in when it was flooded and we 639 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,041 Speaker 2: just come out of COVID and I said, Jez, God 640 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,001 Speaker 2: does hate rock and roll, doesn't he? Because you know, 641 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: it just felt like another hit. People like that inspire 642 00:24:53,921 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 2: me because they keep on going. Yeah, you know, and 643 00:24:56,441 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: they're close friends, you know, the people I deal with daily. 644 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 2: I think you can be inspired by people who you 645 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 2: work with, can't you. You know, absolutely, there's a lot 646 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 2: of people like that around that I just take little 647 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 2: bits and pieces of inspiration from. 648 00:25:07,241 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: I like that you're kind of looking more in your 649 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: inner circle or what you see versus necessarily has to 650 00:25:12,481 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: be something grand or miles away. I love that. I 651 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,281 Speaker 1: love that. All right, let's go back to nineteen year 652 00:25:18,281 --> 00:25:21,161 Speaker 1: old John. What's the best advice you'd give them today? 653 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 2: Don't sweat their small stuff. Just don't let that stuff 654 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: get to you when something happens. I do sweat on it, 655 00:25:26,481 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 2: and it does bother me a. 656 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,801 Speaker 1: Little bit of a warrior, Yeah, I do that, But 657 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: I'm a chronic people pleaser, like working on it. Is 658 00:25:32,441 --> 00:25:32,921 Speaker 1: that the same? 659 00:25:33,041 --> 00:25:36,561 Speaker 2: Yep? I like to have everything clear. I don't want anyone. 660 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:38,961 Speaker 1: Anyone sitting in that space of someone not being happy 661 00:25:39,001 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: and feeling responsible. 662 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:42,721 Speaker 2: It's really I just like it, and being the band 663 00:25:42,801 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 2: was good. No one really disliked you. They just didn't 664 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,041 Speaker 2: like the band. Not everyone like Pataphing, of course, but 665 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,921 Speaker 2: no one was attacking JC. 666 00:25:48,961 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, protected in there. 667 00:25:50,921 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was little hidden there. So I suppose 668 00:25:53,761 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 2: that's just don't smit the small Let that go. Let 669 00:25:55,761 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 2: it go to the keeper. I'm still working. 670 00:25:57,481 --> 00:25:58,761 Speaker 1: You can't make everyone happy, right. 671 00:25:58,761 --> 00:26:00,161 Speaker 2: No, you know, bloody dry hard. 672 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,001 Speaker 1: It's exhausting though, Like I'm on the same journeys you. 673 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,361 Speaker 1: I like that, all right. Last question of the day, Powderfinger, 674 00:26:07,481 --> 00:26:10,161 Speaker 1: In fact, any band for that matter, was not an option. 675 00:26:10,321 --> 00:26:12,161 Speaker 1: Music is not an option, right, I'm ruling it out. 676 00:26:12,681 --> 00:26:15,281 Speaker 1: What would John Collins have done instead? What would I 677 00:26:15,321 --> 00:26:15,961 Speaker 1: find you doing? 678 00:26:16,281 --> 00:26:18,841 Speaker 2: Probably something like commercial property or something. You know, I've 679 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,081 Speaker 2: a lot of friends in that world. Yeah, I just. 680 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:22,561 Speaker 1: I mean, it would have been a really wise choice, 681 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: like in the last. 682 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,241 Speaker 2: I don't know. That's probably just wor. 683 00:26:27,241 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: You're too nice to be. 684 00:26:29,561 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 2: I didn't say I would be good at it. I 685 00:26:30,961 --> 00:26:32,041 Speaker 2: didn't say to be good at it. 686 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,801 Speaker 1: So if you'd be too honest, that's actually not worth it. 687 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,001 Speaker 2: I like dealing with people, and I love playing music, 688 00:26:38,001 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 2: but I'm playing music is dealing with people. Doing what 689 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,321 Speaker 2: I do now is dealing with people. I like being 690 00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,761 Speaker 2: around people. I prefer to have meetings with people in 691 00:26:44,801 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 2: seat of zooms. I like the contact with people. So 692 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:48,601 Speaker 2: to me, any job that has. 693 00:26:48,441 --> 00:26:50,801 Speaker 1: That, it has been a pleasure talking to you. Love 694 00:26:50,801 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: the human lovely lead out. Thank you so much for 695 00:26:52,681 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: your time. 696 00:26:52,961 --> 00:26:54,561 Speaker 2: It's been wonderful. Thanks for having me. Thank you