1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Goodday. Thanks for listening to the show. This is better 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: than yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to help make 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: you all day today better than yesterday, every single episode 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: since twenty thirteen. My name Zosha Ginsberg. I'm very glad 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: you're here. Thanks for being a part of the show. 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: Very quickly, there is a free audiobook awaiting you. If 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: you jump on and subscribe to the newsletter, you'll find 8 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: a link in the show notes. I wanted to put 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: something out there to lighten the mood a bit, because 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: it's a bit Look, there's a lot happening in Australia 11 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: right now. The news this morning told me that about 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: a quarter of all the petrol stations in Australia five 13 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: hundred or so, have a shortage of at least one 14 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: kind of liquid fuel. We considering the war going on 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: in the Middle East right now, the disruption to the 16 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: global supply chain of these liquid jewels, jou elias that 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: get us from here to there, these things that help 18 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,520 Speaker 1: power our economy and our food supply, that is being 19 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: felt by every household in the country. And yet I 20 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: really believe that we right now in Australia have a 21 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: real moment to make a choice. We can make yes, indeed, 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: short term policies to keep our food, our water supply, 23 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: and our equonomy moving. And do we then invest in 24 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: bigger fuel tanks and more onshore refining to guard against 25 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: oil price shocks in the future, or do we take 26 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: that money and invest it somewhere else? Because there is 27 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: another path forward, a path that could very easily right 28 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: now insulate our country and our economy against this sort 29 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: of thing, and we don't have to wait for some 30 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: sort of miracle technology to be invented. The solution is 31 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: in fact right in front of us. Electrify everything. I 32 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: thought today would be a really important day to listen 33 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: to a few key moments from a much longer conversation 34 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: with SAUW Griffith. We had this conversation a couple of 35 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: years back. Sauls an MIT train engineer and inventor and author. 36 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: He's crunched the numbers and Australia is uniquely positioned to 37 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: lead the world in this kind of transformation. We're going 38 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: to dive into some really key moments today where Saul 39 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: reveals quite clearly how transport electrification isn't just about climate action. 40 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: It's about energy security, economic opportunity and national resilience. And 41 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: the tipping point is a lot closer than you think. 42 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: And look when people say, oh, this sort of thing's 43 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: really complicated, either they're trying to sell you something or 44 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: they're trying to delay action. Saul is able to cut 45 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: through a lot of that obfuscation with a plan so 46 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: simple he's able to say in just about one breath, 47 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: Australia has everything we need to decarbonize, rapidly abundance solar 48 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: technology ready to deploy, and a pathway that creates massive 49 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: economic opportunity. The question isn't can we do this? The 50 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: question is why haven't we already started? And considering what's 51 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: happening at the moment, the question is, well, can we 52 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: start now? 53 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: I want you to. 54 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: Listen to Saul describing what Australia could achieve right now 55 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: if we just stopped staring at our shoes and gone 56 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: into action. 57 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 2: If we just thought about what can we do today 58 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: and what is about five to ten years away from 59 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 2: working really well for us, then Australia looks like it 60 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: comes out beautifully in solving climate change. Basically, right away, 61 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: we can decarbonize our residential, domestic economies, homes, small businesses. 62 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: We electrify the vehicles, we electrify the homes, electrify the heating, 63 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: electrify the water heat, electrify the kitchen, sol the cells 64 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 2: on the roof, a bunch of batteries to back it up. 65 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: Sell that technology to the world. All of a sudden, 66 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: You're in twenty thirty You've reduced our emissions by forty 67 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: or fifty percent. And then we will have the clean 68 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: steel and the clean aluminum turned on, and we'll be 69 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: able to basically make wind turbines for the rest of 70 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: the world to help them on their decarbonization journey, and 71 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 2: will make a fucking shit ton of money doing it. 72 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: But that what was it? Like a thirty five second 73 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: run on sentence. We've never had a politician that could 74 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: actually stand up and say that without mumbling. 75 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: There you got thirty five seconds. That's about how long 76 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: it takes to describe a plan that saves the climate, 77 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: creates jobs and makes Australia wealthy and ensures us from 78 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: overseas oil shops. Somehow, Like there's political speeches that go 79 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: for in a half an hour thirty minutes and they 80 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: say less than that. The simplicity, though, is the point 81 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: we already have what we need. The vehicles exist, the 82 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: solar panels work, the batteries are ready. What's missing isn't 83 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: the technology, it's the will of the people. And that 84 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: brings us to this moment when the economics finally align 85 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: with the urgency, which is kind of where we are 86 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: because we got told this energy transition will be slow. 87 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: There's this big, kind of very even glide path all 88 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 1: the way to twenty fifty. But so we'll see something 89 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: very different, a nonlinear rupture that kind of changes everything 90 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: almost instantly. And I think we're already there because it 91 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: certainly happened with rooftop solar in Australia. One day it 92 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: was a niche thing for environmentals and they paid a 93 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: lot of money for it. The next minute, you know, 94 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: it starts beating grid prices, and then fifty percent of 95 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: Australian households in some areas have solar panels on their rooms. 96 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: That same inflection point is coming for electric vehicles. The 97 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: question isn't if, it's how fast we'll move once that 98 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: price point hits and what does that tipping point look like. 99 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 2: The narrative around climate solutions was always that we were 100 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: going to with foresight, serenely glide in with a linear 101 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,840 Speaker 2: response in a perfect landing, and that is how they 102 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: build the models of the IPCC and everything else. And 103 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: the model in intellectual model for how we solve these 104 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 2: problems is that humans are do things effectively and efficiently. 105 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: But the reality is we always do things with huge nonlinearities, 106 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: like everything's great and then it all of a sudden 107 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: really isn't. And we're not terribly efficient in the way 108 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: we solve problems and do things. And I think the 109 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: reality is we're going to have very nonlinear There's a 110 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: bunch of very nonlinear things coming up in the energy 111 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: they like as soon as the price of driving an 112 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: electric car and buying one is cheaper than a gasoline one, 113 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: then you can throw all of those straight lines away 114 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 2: and you'll have a very very quick response, you know. 115 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: I think there are more reactions to things like the 116 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: bushfires and the storms that are becoming non linear reactions 117 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: that speed up the reaction much much faster. The price 118 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,559 Speaker 2: of rooftop solar in Australia very slow uptake through maybe 119 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and then magically it started beating the price 120 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: of the grid everywhere. And now Australia has fifty percent 121 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,559 Speaker 2: penetration of solar in some places, and I think twenty 122 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 2: five to thirty across the country, which is extraordinary. It's like, 123 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: and that happened in half a dozen years. So we're 124 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: hitting a bunch of these price points and market situations 125 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: where you can really see things changing quickly. 126 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: About half a dozen years, that's how long it took 127 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: Australia to go from solar curiosity to solar ubiquity once 128 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: the economics flipped. That same compressed timeline is coming for transport. 129 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: WA's what happens in the coming weeks and months around 130 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: electric cars. When your neighbors electric car costs less to 131 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: buy and less to run than your petrol car, the 132 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 1: decision is obvious. You might have some late night cable 133 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: news or talk back idea echoing in your head. Yeah, 134 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: but too many evs are going to crush the grid. 135 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 2: There is a very. 136 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: Simple answer to that, and it's coming up after the 137 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: break stick around. Thank you so much for listening to 138 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: the show. Saul Griffith's is on the show today. He's 139 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: an MIT train engineer. He's a researcher he's an author, 140 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: he's an incredibly brilliant man, and we're talking about the 141 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: opportunity that Australia has right now when it comes to 142 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: electrifying our transport infrastructure. Yes, I have a dog in 143 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: this fight. I've been driving an electric vehicle since twenty eleven. 144 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: I have an electric car on my driveway. I have 145 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: an electric motorbike. I have an e bike, which I 146 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: absolutely love. Now, the old kind of establishment would always 147 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: kind of saying, oh no, but EV's are going to 148 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: crush the crid like it's a scare tactic. Too many 149 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: electric cars charging one's blur, they'll be blackouts, blur. But 150 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: you know what Saul has done the maths and the 151 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: reality is precisely the opposite. Electric vehicles don't just draw power, 152 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: they store power. Every EVA is a battery on wheels. 153 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: Australian households that have solar roofs and evs in the 154 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: garage become like a fortress of energy. The grid doesn't 155 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: get weaker, the grid gets more resilient. How much energy 156 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: independence are we talking about here? 157 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: I'm actually super excited about Australia and we're trying to 158 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: actually be the world's first pilot, like you know, I 159 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: think because the economics are best in Australia. Wouldn't it 160 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: be amazing if one suburb in Australia that's got about 161 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: a thousand homes in it, which is what is roughly 162 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: in the number of homes that are under a substation, 163 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: which is a unit of the distribution grid. That is 164 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: kind of important. Wouldn't it be amazing if the Australia 165 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 2: could be the world's first suburb that switches off all 166 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: the natural gas ins therea it goes all in on 167 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 2: electric and proofs to the world that you can balance 168 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: the grid and it won't crash and it will actually 169 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: be more resilient because it turns out, you know, the 170 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 2: average Austraian household is one point seven cars, and if 171 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 2: you've got one point seven electric cars, you've got enough 172 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,599 Speaker 2: electricity in their batteries to go off the grid for 173 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: about ten days, and you'll also have another battery on 174 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: side of house. Unlet should go another couple of days 175 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: off the grid. And then you turns out you don't 176 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: need that many days off the grid because you go 177 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: solar on your roof, which solves for most of it. 178 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: Like we're going to find out that this was not 179 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 2: really an enormous problem. That we are just in the 180 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: difficult position right now where it goes up against essentially 181 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 2: an eighty year, very very reliable, conservative engineered the old 182 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 2: fashioned way history. So we're in a bit of a spot. 183 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: Think about that. Ten days, that's how long an average 184 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: Australian household with electric vehicles could survive off grid. And 185 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: if you add the home with a battery and solar, 186 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: and you're looking at energy independence in your home in 187 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: a residential area, that supposed frailty of the electrified grid 188 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: is somewhat of a myth. And you know, when you 189 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: look at the people who are saying it, I don't know, 190 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: do they have some amount of incentive to say that 191 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: sort of thing. Perhaps in reality, the distributed energy storage 192 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: through evs creates a more resilient greed than anyone could 193 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: have imagined. But there is one competitor to electrification that 194 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: keeps getting brought up. It's being brought up at the moment, 195 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: and it's being brought up by politicians with gas industry connections. 196 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: So let's hear what Saul has to say about hydrogen, 197 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: which sounds promising in theory. Clean abundant, you know, just 198 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: water vapor out the tailpipe. But Saul's actually built hydrogen 199 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: tanks for the US Department of Energy. He sold the 200 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,079 Speaker 1: technology to auto companies. He's shot bullets into hydrogen tanks 201 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: to watch them explode, which, in Saul's words, he describes 202 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: as super fucking fun but really quite scary. So when 203 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: politicians talk about hydrogen vehicles as our transport future, Saul 204 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: knows exactly why that is a dead end because he 205 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: has done the science, He's built the things, he knows 206 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: how they work. The physics doesn't really lie here, So 207 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: why does hydrogen keep coming up despite being clearly inferior 208 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: to batteries. 209 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 2: Hydrogen has one hundred and twenty three meggage for kilogram, 210 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 2: which is what the hydrogen nerds really love to tell you. Now, 211 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: diesel has about forty six megadeels kilogram. That means that 212 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 2: hydrogen has two and a half times more energy per 213 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 2: kilogram than diesel made. Imagine a truck running on that. 214 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: But what they don't tell you is that you need 215 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: about twelve kilograms of tank for every one kilogram of 216 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: hydrogen because you've got to compress it at such high 217 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 2: pressure that you need this giant, thick carbon fibri tank 218 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 2: to hold it in, And so if you divide one 219 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty three by twelve, it's about ten mega 220 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: jewels of kilogram, which is barely better than the luthium battery. 221 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: So once you account for the massive weight of the 222 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,239 Speaker 1: tank needed to contain hydrogen safely, the energy density advantage 223 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: pretty much evaporates. What remains is a technology that rhymes 224 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: with natural gas somewhat of a I don't know. Is 225 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: it a way to keep fossil fuel infrastructure relevant while 226 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: appearing green? Perhaps? All I can tell you is that 227 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: it's an expensive just action if it is. Yet, battery 228 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 1: electric vehicles are here, they work, they're getting cheaper. They 229 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: turn every driveway and every garage into a power station. 230 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: It's pretty clear choice. As far as I'm concerned. Energy 231 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 1: security isn't about stockpiling liquid fuel or building bigger pipelines, 232 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: certainly not about refining more fuel on shore. It's about 233 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: decentralizing the power generation and the story so incredibly that 234 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: every household becomes POWERstation. What Saul and I've been talking 235 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: about today isn't some utopian fantasy. It is pragmatic, real engineering. 236 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: That exists right now. The vehicles exists, the solar panels work, 237 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: the batteries work. We've got the sun, the space, the minerals, 238 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,599 Speaker 1: the opportunity to show the world that transitioning our transportation 239 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: infrastructure to electric isn't the sacrifice. It is an upgrade 240 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: that makes us more resilient as a nation. We don't. 241 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: We just need to stop waiting for permission and start 242 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: doing it right. The future isn't coming. The future is here, 243 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: and we can make it happen if we wanted to, 244 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: and I think soon more of us are going to 245 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: want to than not. But we'll see. Thank you so 246 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: much for listening. Thanks to everyone who helped me make 247 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: the show today once again. If you want to grab 248 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: the new audiobook, you'll find the link in the show notes, 249 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: says were we can get on the newsletter, get tickets 250 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: at story Club. The live show that it'll do every 251 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: couple weeks, goes on and goes on. If you like 252 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: this episode, please like, share, a subscribe, rate, follow screenshot 253 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: center tool mate, I don't know, make it into a 254 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: sticker and stick it on a toilet. No, don't vandalize, don't, no, 255 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: don't Thanks for listening.