1 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: Good date, welcome to the show. Thank you so much 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: for listening, and thank you for being here. This is 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 1: better than yesterday. Useful tools and useful conversations to help 4 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: make today better than yesterday every single week since twenty thirteen. 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: Min Am Zosha Ginsberg. I'm very glad you're here. 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 1: Thank you to the people of Chemra said hello last 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: night at story Club, the storytelling show I do every month. 8 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: It was lovely to have you there. The next show 9 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: is the seventh of September. The lineup will be announced 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 1: for very soon, and I am I'm very touched and 11 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: quite overwhelmed at the amount of feedback about So What 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: now What? Thank you so very much for getting around 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: this new book. The linkers in the show notes, it 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: is just it's just absolutely incredible that this book that 15 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: Cam and I work so hard on is now on 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: people's hands and is bringing is bringing people who buy 17 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: it and people who read it value. It's an audiobook 18 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: as well, if you wanted to go find that. It's 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: Cam did the sound design. It's amazing. So now What 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: is as much. 21 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: Of a toolbox as it is a book. 22 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: And it's something that you can probably have around and 23 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,759 Speaker 1: break it out when things are difficult for you or 24 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: for someone you care about. 25 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 2: You can get the link in the show notes. 26 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: One of the main philosophies of so what Now what 27 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: is that it's only when we're in action, only when 28 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: we're moving towards something we value, that we feel any 29 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: relief from pain. And sometimes getting into action can look different. 30 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Sometimes getting into action can look like just checking to 31 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: see where you are. I talk a lot about noticing 32 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 1: in the book, and I was reminded of that when 33 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: we spoke with Ian Hickey and James A. Lachlan the 34 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: other day on the podcast. They talked about paying attention 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: to what's going on with your mental health and knowing 36 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: what to do when things start a bit of a 37 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: downward trend. 38 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: And this is. 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: Something that I have been doing for a very very 40 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: long time. Not only do I try to pay attention 41 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: to my mental health, I also have a couple of 42 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: fail safes, things that if I trigger any of these things, 43 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: I know I need to call my doctor, because I 44 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: know enough to know that when I'm in it, I 45 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: don't realize that I'm in it, and I don't understand 46 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: that I'm in trouble sometimes. So I found these things 47 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: out and I'll get to them. But the first thing 48 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: I would say, it's important just to self, you know, 49 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: give yourself. Give yourself a score out of five. All right, 50 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: Try to do that every day. Try to find out 51 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: where you are today. What's the score out of five? 52 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: For me, it's you know, one to five. As far 53 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: as anxiety goes. 54 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: It could look different for you, but for me, my 55 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: score was the anxiety that I felt that day. 56 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: Some days it'd be two out of five, some days 57 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: to be three, some days it'd be five out of five. 58 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: Those were very difficult days. On a five out of 59 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: five day, if we were talking, I might be looking 60 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: at you, but my brain was just full of horror 61 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: and noise, and I was very checked out. I wasn't 62 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: able to think about anything but the fear. But what 63 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: was really important about writing all these things down every 64 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: day was noticing that would ebb and float When you're 65 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: in it. It feels like how you feel right now 66 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: is how it's going to be forever. And that is 67 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,519 Speaker 1: for both the positive and negative things. Your personal monitoring 68 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: might look different for you. I've heard another way to 69 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: do it, and that is to give yourself a green light, 70 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: an amber light and a red light green light. Everything's great, 71 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: Amber on bit shit, Okay, red light today is not 72 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: a great day at all. 73 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: Whatever it is doesn't matter. 74 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: It's important to have a plan in place for what 75 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: to do when you get too many red lights in 76 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: a row, or your scores are too high for too 77 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: many days in a row. 78 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: I'll share with you what I do right after this. 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about giving yourself a bit of a rating, 80 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: but writing down how you're feeling if you're going through 81 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: a period of difficulty. What I like to do is 82 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: I make sure to write down my level of anxiety 83 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: one a way up in the morning. Try to do 84 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: it at the same distance from opening my eyes. And 85 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: I started doing that because I wanted to see the 86 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: effectiveness of the meds that I was taking and the 87 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: work that I was doing. Metrics are great. I thoroughly 88 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: recommend it a good metric. If you can measure it, 89 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: you can manage it. And writing it all down it 90 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: was incredibly powerful to realize that even if I was 91 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: having a five out of five, After a while, I 92 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: came to understand that it would not be a five 93 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: out of five in two days from now. Even when 94 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: it was really bad, sometimes an hour later, it wouldn't 95 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: be a five out of five. But I did give 96 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: myself a rule about this. If I am three out 97 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: of five or more for three days in a row, 98 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: I call my doctor because I know that if I 99 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: spend too long in that heightened state, my ability to 100 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: come back down starts to become affected, and then it 101 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: becomes like one of those terrifying, self sustaining, cheap battery 102 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: fires that nobody can put out. 103 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 2: It's really bad. 104 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: I have a couple of other failsafes which I stick to. 105 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: Here are three of my failsafs. So I found that 106 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: if I cannot calm myself down, I need to. 107 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 2: Get to a doctor. I should call my doctor. 108 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: If I've trained, if done all my breathing, done my meditation, 109 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: if I'm journaling, if I've talked to a friend, if 110 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: I've been taking my meds, if I've been useful for 111 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: somebody else. If I still cannot downregulate, then I know 112 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: I'm in trouble. I talked about this just the other 113 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: day when I talked about getting voted off the tribal 114 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: Council of Dancing with the Stars. 115 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: That's what happened that day. 116 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: I couldn't use any of my tools to get out 117 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: of that feeling. I couldn't rationalize the feeling I was having. 118 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: I was unable to get out of it, and I 119 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: was unable to get out in front of it, and 120 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: I knew, ah, I need to call for help, which 121 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: I did. 122 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: I called a show psychologist. 123 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: And I talked about that on the show the other day, 124 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: and what do you know, everything felt a shitload better less. 125 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: Than an hour later. But I knew to do that. 126 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: The second one is that if two people that I 127 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: know on the same day ask me, hey, man, are 128 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: you okay? 129 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: Now, after I've lied to them and told them no, no, no, no, no, no, no, 130 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,359 Speaker 2: I'm fine, I'm just tired. 131 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: Because it's a lie. We always tell if I've told 132 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: two people that lie, I will reach out for help. 133 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 1: It happens very very rarely these days, but there have 134 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: been times in my life when I am clearly exhibiting 135 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 1: the behaviors of someone who's not doing so well, and 136 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: because these people care about me, they've asked, hey, man, 137 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: are you doing well? And because I have stigma about 138 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: myself not doing well, I have lied to them and 139 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: told them I am doing well, but I'm not, and 140 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: this has led me to situations that otherwise could have 141 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: been avoided, both at work and in my personal life. 142 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: So if two people that I know have asked me 143 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: that question, I seek help. I just know to do 144 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: it and I guess the last one, which used to 145 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: happen quite a bit, but now I'm very very careful 146 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: to never let it even get started because once this 147 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: one star, I cannot get out in front of it. 148 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: It's going to take a little bit of explaining. I 149 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: do need to play some ads, so I'll be right back. 150 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,559 Speaker 1: So the last failsafe that I want us to talk about, 151 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: off the back of speaking with James and he and 152 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: the other day, about understanding how well or not well 153 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: you're doing, and then understanding what you need to do 154 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: about that. It's all very very important stuff to know. 155 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: So the last failsafe that I have. Thankfully, I never 156 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: forget this one because a great Australian band friends Will Rom, 157 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: wrote a song about it. When everything is everything, Everything's fucked. 158 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: If I'm having the kind of day where just everything 159 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: is fucked, when the bus pulls out in front of 160 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: my car, oh the motherfucker's when I've catched the red light, 161 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: even though I'm the one that left the house ten 162 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: minutes late. When my phone falls out of my hand 163 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: and the phone screen smashes, or when my card gets 164 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: decline while I'm trying to pay for a coffee that 165 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: i probably shouldn't be drinking because I'm already way too 166 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: charged up. When I take all other things personally, and 167 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, the things that don't go right for me 168 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: just keep piling up and piling up and piling up, 169 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: I can become unable to see them as just a 170 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: thing that's happening, and instead I see them as a 171 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: thing that is happening to me somehow, on purpose, somewhere 172 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: when everyone else is horrible and everyone else is annoying, 173 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: that's when I call for help. If you're having the 174 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: kind of day where everybody else is being an absolute asshole, 175 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: I can pretty much guarantee you you're. 176 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: The one being an asshole. 177 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: Pretty much now, since I've put these things in place, 178 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: for the most part, I've avoided things getting out of control, 179 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: getting to a place where I can't control it. I've 180 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: absolutely into vitas. I've just told you, I've spoken to 181 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: doctors in the middle of this stuff. But it's because 182 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: I have noticed these things and understood what to do 183 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: when it happens. But this, all of this comes with 184 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: the responsibility of just laying the baseline man, trying to 185 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: sleep right, trying to eat right, trying to do the 186 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: right thing during the day. As far as acting with integrity, 187 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: it's taking responsibility for my actions, taking my mad doing 188 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: what my doctors telling me. I'd be interested to know 189 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: what your red flags are, what are the fail safes 190 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: that you have Since I've had mine in place, I 191 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: have I have I've avoided absolutely horrible incidents of mental 192 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: unmowness that I have experienced in the past, which I'm 193 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 1: so happy about. And I've also had the opportunity, this 194 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: is the great part the benefit of this. I've had 195 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: the opportunity to identify I don't know, perhaps habits and 196 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: patterns which I did not realize were being detrimental not 197 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: just to me, but to my family and. 198 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 2: Sometimes my career. 199 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to know what it is that you do. Also, 200 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: if you've got any questions at all, I'd love to 201 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: hear your voice. Just whip out your phone, record a 202 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: voice message in your phone and just email It's he me. 203 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: Send to sher email at gmail dot com or drop 204 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: me a voice note in the dms on Instagram. Now, 205 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that if you also mentioned 206 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 1: you've bought the brand new books, so what now? 207 00:09:58,320 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 2: What? 208 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: The linkers in the show notes that I will definitely 209 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: we answer your question because I am a man of 210 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: integrity and I wouldn't do that. But if you do 211 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 1: choose to buy the book and one for your friend 212 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: and your kids and your parents, I'd be very grateful. 213 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: Also very grateful if you left to review, because a 214 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: lot of people make a purchase decision on the idea 215 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: that someone else has already made the choice and it's 216 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: a good choice. So people like to see proof that 217 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: it's a good book. So please same with this podcast. 218 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: If you find this podcast valuable, please subscribe where you 219 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: can and rate it, send it to somebody, And same 220 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: with the books. If you have found the book valuable, 221 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: please do leave a review. Every single one of those reviews, 222 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: every single one of those recommendations helps us in enormous, 223 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: enormous ways. It's incredible. Thanks for being a part of 224 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: the show. Jump on the substack if you need anything else. 225 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm really grateful you are here. Today Thanks Adam Buncher 226 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: for producing this episode. I'll see you Wednesday.