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Speaker 1: Gay Team, It's the U Project, It's Jumbo, It's Craig,

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Speaker 1: Anthony Harper, It's Meyer's Van Lambert. On the other side,

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Speaker 1: they're high. Here you go in Oh, really good, new.

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Speaker 2: Fabulous, absolutely fabulous.

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Speaker 1: It's bloody at one point thirty two in Melbs on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's a bit precipitious out there. It is

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Speaker 1: raining its little bottom off the trees. My trees are

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Speaker 1: rejoicing and clapping their little leaves together because they're getting hydrated.

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Speaker 1: But I don't want to winge about the weather because

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Speaker 1: I love the weather. But it's certainly winter is here,

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Speaker 1: mes it is.

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Speaker 2: I was only saying something to someone yesterday that we

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Speaker 2: really haven't had that much rain, not like what's typical

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Speaker 2: for the winter. So you've got to take the good

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Speaker 2: with the bad.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it must be the global warming, stop it. You

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Speaker 1: know what I did before, I've been running every day

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Speaker 1: for the last week or so, which is a new ink.

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Speaker 1: I run periodically, and I do the thing that I

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Speaker 1: tell most people not to do, and that is I'm

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Speaker 1: somewhat inconsistent with my running. But you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to run too much or too far because I

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Speaker 1: want to hold onto a bit of muscle, and also

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Speaker 1: doing mountains of running when you're sixty is not awesome

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Speaker 1: for your skeleton, but a bit of running it's good,

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Speaker 1: you know, the old six year old joints and shit.

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Speaker 1: But I went. I put on a little running shoes,

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Speaker 1: my little high performance running shoes before because I'm a

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Speaker 1: fucking I'm a ninja, I'm stealth. I just moved through

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Speaker 1: the urban landscape like a fucking movie character. Anyway, I

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Speaker 1: put on a little special running shoes and I stepped

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Speaker 1: outside and it was raining, so I stepped back inside

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Speaker 1: like a big baby, and then I went, what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: Then I just went and ran in the rain for

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Speaker 1: about I don't know, two k's, no three, two and

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Speaker 1: a half k's like just a fifteen minute plot. But

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Speaker 1: I've got to tell you. I ran in just a

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Speaker 1: T shirt, shorts and runners, obviously, and I fucking loved it.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite things being a kid, which I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. I was a weird child. I was

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Speaker 1: an only child. I spent probably too much time alone.

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Speaker 1: I had some really quirky fucking things that I did.

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Speaker 1: When I said, but I used to love running in

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Speaker 1: the rain, and I still love it. I love it.

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Speaker 2: Well. You know, this is going back a few years

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Speaker 2: ago now, and it was one of your weekends away

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Speaker 2: at Wilson's Prom. I don't know if you remember it,

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Speaker 2: but I remember before I went that I'd had a

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Speaker 2: shower and all those sorts of things before after work

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Speaker 2: and headed your direction, and the weather just continuously got

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Speaker 2: worse and worse. And I think I was with Jane actually,

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Speaker 2: and as we were getting closer to Wilson's Prom, I

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Speaker 2: was starting to smile a little bit more broadly because

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Speaker 2: I was thinking, the weather's just too bad. We're not

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Speaker 2: going to be doing too much exercise outside. And the

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Speaker 2: Friday night it was absolutely pouring down and the wind

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Speaker 2: was intense, and I think it was about ten o'clock

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Speaker 2: or ten thirty, and you went, right, We're going out

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Speaker 2: for a walk, and I was like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 2: And I loved it, loved it, And then really I

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Speaker 2: still do it today where I get up and I walk,

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Speaker 2: and I love the days where it's you know, really

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Speaker 2: wet and windy. It makes you feel alive, you know,

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Speaker 2: That's how I feel anyway. So you broke the you

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Speaker 2: broke the mold. So and I've loved it ever since.

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Speaker 2: So there you go.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like when I'm walking in rain,

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Speaker 1: and this feels this is I don't know, maybe it

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Speaker 1: sounds silly about it doesn't to me. When I'm walking

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Speaker 1: in the rain or I'm running in rain, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm stepping into nature because it's like there's I'm

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Speaker 1: straight straight away, I'm wet and the sky has made

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Speaker 1: me wet, or the rain has made me wet. And

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Speaker 1: I did this before I uh, in fact, before I

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Speaker 1: set up my first gym, which was in nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 1: so this is one million years ago. In the eighties,

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Speaker 1: I used to work at a gym in hamp and

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Speaker 1: shout out to track Side back in the old days,

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Speaker 1: and Mike Thornbro my boss, the great Mike Thornber, who

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Speaker 1: still lives around the corner. I think. Anyway, I started peteeing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I was the gym manager at twenty

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Speaker 1: two or three, so I was managing the gym. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how the fuck I got that gig. I

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Speaker 1: think it was just because I could. I was a

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Speaker 1: little mildly, you know, charming and likable, but fucking hopeless

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Speaker 1: from a business perspective. But anyway, also I was honest,

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Speaker 1: which is also good I think in business if you're

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Speaker 1: the business owner and you're employing someone. But I used

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Speaker 1: to you know, my PE team was just kicking off,

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Speaker 1: and every Saturday Mays I used to train what started

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Speaker 1: out as four ladies who were models who worked for

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Speaker 1: a company called I think it was called Panash. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: they were these four girls that I used to train

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Speaker 1: two or three times a week. But we used to

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Speaker 1: do this Saturday morning session at eight am, and we'd

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Speaker 1: meet and we'd often be outside the gym, like we'd

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Speaker 1: meet outside the gym, then we'd go train outside. We

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Speaker 1: didn't train on Saturdays in and if it was rayin

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Speaker 1: Haler shine with train right. And then a few other

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Speaker 1: people said a few other ladies said, you know, oh,

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Speaker 1: what's that group. I said, it's not really a group.

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Speaker 1: It's a private kind of session. And then the girls,

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Speaker 1: the ladies who were my clients, said, you know, if

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Speaker 1: other people want to join, we don't care for the

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Speaker 1: Saturday because we just go and train at the beach

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Speaker 1: because the gym's three AUNDI made us from the beach.

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Speaker 1: And anyway, that they're not two short stories somewhat laborious stories.

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Speaker 1: But that grew from these four women that I trained

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Speaker 1: to up to regularly two one hundred people, right really, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. And we actually did a good Friday session

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Speaker 1: with that group on a Friday though at the Hampton

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Speaker 1: Beach and I had one hundred and thirty people and

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Speaker 1: we gave the money to the Royal Children's Hospital Appeal. Right. So,

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Speaker 1: but when people came to the group, I would, you know,

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Speaker 1: we would intro them and I'd kind of say, everyone,

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Speaker 1: this is mayors, mayors everyone, and I'd kind of give

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Speaker 1: the newbies to the group a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: snapshot of what was what it was about and what

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Speaker 1: they're in for. And then I would hand over to

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Speaker 1: the group and I would say is there anything you

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Speaker 1: want to tell meres and they would all go to meyors,

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Speaker 1: your fucking waterproof, right. And so if it was forty degrees,

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Speaker 1: if it was three degrees, if it was hailing, if

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Speaker 1: it was rain, we would go. We would train. We

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Speaker 1: would train through the tracks at the top of the beach.

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Speaker 1: We would train sometimes at a footy over or a park,

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Speaker 1: but most of the time we trained at the beach.

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Speaker 1: We often got in the water. We always got wet, messy,

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Speaker 1: dirty sandy, and because it was so like not polished,

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Speaker 1: it was so and it wasn't brutal like we hurt

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Speaker 1: people or but it was you know, what was funny

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Speaker 1: was because obviously the gym is in bayside Melbourne, so

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Speaker 1: you've got all these Hampton Brighton and sandring Ham and

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Speaker 1: black Rock people, you know, pulling up in their range

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Speaker 1: rovers and then fucking you know, crawling on their hands

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Speaker 1: and knees, doing leopard crawls in the soft, wet sand

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Speaker 1: and fucking loving it. You know. It's like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's gone astray in the last decade or two.

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Speaker 1: Is that that, you know, getting down and dirty and

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Speaker 1: you know, getting rain on you and getting dirt on

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Speaker 1: you and fucking getting in some wet, sluppy sand and

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Speaker 1: fucking getting in the ocean. And there's something to be

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Speaker 1: said for you know, and I know most of us

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Speaker 1: listening to this, me and you included, we live in suburbia,

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Speaker 1: but just being able to you know, put your big

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Speaker 1: toe back in nature by walking in the rain, or

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Speaker 1: you know, going down to the beach, which I go

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Speaker 1: down nearly every day in my life. I go the

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Speaker 1: beach AT's eight hundred meters from where I'm sitting, and

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Speaker 1: I always walk in bare feet, like always, even if

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Speaker 1: I wear shoes down there, I take my shoes off, yep,

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Speaker 1: and I walk in bare feet. And there's something like,

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Speaker 1: especially in these days of I know I'm talking too much.

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Speaker 1: I'll shut up after this. I just had a self

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Speaker 1: awareness moment. I apologize. But you know, like in these

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Speaker 1: days where every second person is, you know, struggling understandably

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Speaker 1: with mental health, emotional health. You know, like I thinking anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness, isolation, disconnection,

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Speaker 1: you know, confusion, blah blah blah, all of these human things.

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Speaker 1: Like sometimes the answer to psychology is through the physiology

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Speaker 1: of nature. And you know, feet in the sand, feet

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Speaker 1: in the ocean, body in the ocean, rain on the head.

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Speaker 1: You know. I sit outside in my garden, which I love,

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Speaker 1: and I have this chair and I sit, I pull

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Speaker 1: the chair up to one of my trees and I

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Speaker 1: put my feet on the tree. And so if I'm

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Speaker 1: on the phone or I'm reading a book, my feet

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Speaker 1: are on nature, you know, versus just on you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, or just in a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, for sure, there's something to be said for that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I suppose being a country girl, there's that.

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Speaker 2: And you know, just brought a new apartment and the

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Speaker 2: big thing for me was having outdoor space and a

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Speaker 2: good size outdoor space. So because environment is everything, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I don't sit inside very much at all. So

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Speaker 2: the inside space, yes, it's important and all those sorts

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Speaker 2: of things, but my external space is far more important

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Speaker 2: to me. So I would sit outside. Actually, when I

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Speaker 2: was talking to you earlier, I was actually sitting outside

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Speaker 2: in the rain, so you know, having a coffee and

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Speaker 2: looking at the ocean because I can see the ocean

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Speaker 2: for where I'm at, So that's my you know, that's

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Speaker 2: my space rather than being inside.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that people think about, you know, the

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Speaker 1: not just their external environment as in you know, suburbia, geography.

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Speaker 1: Can I see the ocean, but even like the environment

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Speaker 1: that they work in. Like you've been in my office, right, everyone,

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Speaker 1: not everyone, but nearly everyone who comes into my office goes,

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Speaker 1: I fucking love your office because it's just a nice energy.

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Speaker 2: It's beautiful energy.

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Speaker 1: There's big, beautiful comfy chairs. There's this awesome black carpet

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Speaker 1: that you can just sqwitch it into and three big

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Speaker 1: windows and all you can see. You can't see suburbia.

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Speaker 1: You can just see trees. And I don't know, there's

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Speaker 1: something nice about But when I go, for example, to Monash,

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Speaker 1: which is I love Monash, but like my cubicle, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I have a cubicle, but fuck my cubicle, no disrespect,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it ain't the same like me doing

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing where I'm at right now versus

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Speaker 1: in a you know, a one meter by six hundred

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Speaker 1: mil cubicle with six hundred mil high walls and I

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Speaker 1: can't see anyone and no one can see me unless

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Speaker 1: I'm standing and I'm looking at like timber or not

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Speaker 1: even timber, like fucking lamanex or something. Yeah. It just

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Speaker 1: like where I'm working, even if it's an internal environment,

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Speaker 1: it really impacts everything from whether not like I'm happy

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Speaker 1: or not necessarily sad, but like my energy levels, my creativity,

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Speaker 1: my ability to focus and be present, you know.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, you know, internal spaces are so important

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Speaker 2: to create a space of calmness and beauty is what

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Speaker 2: I believe. And you know, even things like the color

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Speaker 2: on the wall or the lighting in the room can

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Speaker 2: have a significant impact on us obviously psychologically and physiologically,

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Speaker 2: and so there needs to be investment into creating beautiful

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Speaker 2: internal spaces. But I think also those external spaces need

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Speaker 2: to also kind of marry up with or reflect what

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Speaker 2: it is that brings us a sense of peace but

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Speaker 2: also enjoyment, because you know, you know, I've just been

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Speaker 2: renovating and wall color is important for me. You know,

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Speaker 2: creating a sense of warmth in the space is important

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Speaker 2: for me. Having my artwork up on the wall. It

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Speaker 2: brings me joy, and you know, it's like a feast

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Speaker 2: for the eyes and the soul in a sense, you know.

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Speaker 2: And so creating that space of feeling like when you

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Speaker 2: come to my space that it's really comfortable, and sitting

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Speaker 2: on the couch is like having a hug. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're sitting in the couch, not on a couch, if

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Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So all of those things

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Speaker 2: are really important and need time and consideration, and you know,

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Speaker 2: and there's money involved, there's no two ways about that.

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Speaker 2: But and having beautiful you don't have to have a

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Speaker 2: lot of things, but things that means something to you,

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Speaker 2: that ground you, I think are really important.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know what I noticed. I know that you're well,

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Speaker 1: I know that you tell on is truth anyway, but

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Speaker 1: I know this to be true for you because you

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Speaker 1: and I are doing a little bit of work together

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Speaker 1: with an organization we can't mention, but it rhymes with

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Speaker 1: Big Pole and and but what I know, what I

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Speaker 1: noticed is your your space, your your headquarters, your HQ

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Speaker 1: is in the city, and it's in it doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: where it is, but it's it's this big, beautiful open

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Speaker 1: And do you know what I noticed? This is I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like i'd never been there until a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks ago when we first did our first full

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Speaker 1: day with Big Pole, Big Toll. No, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: No one will figure that out. But what I noticed

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Speaker 1: was when I went a first walked in and I

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Speaker 1: wasn't I wasn't looking for this. So this is how

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Speaker 1: effective it is. It smelt great. I'm like, what is that?

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Speaker 1: It smelt great. It smelt I don't know, like almost

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Speaker 1: like therapeutic, like you know when you go into those spars.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but it smelt nice. It was warm,

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Speaker 1: but not hot, right, it wasn't freezing at what like

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Speaker 1: it was the right temperature the roof is really high,

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Speaker 1: so it doesn't feel claustrophobic. And I was thinking, this

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Speaker 1: is such a good energy space. And then I had

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Speaker 1: the privilege of working there all day with you and

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Speaker 1: the group, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is an

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Speaker 1: easy place to work in. And it's funny how like

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Speaker 1: when you think about being good at your job. You know,

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Speaker 1: whatever your job is, whether or not it's talking to

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Speaker 1: a group of humans for a day, as you and

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Speaker 1: I did on that day and we're doing also next week,

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Speaker 1: but you think about that, you know, people would go

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Speaker 1: People think about understandably things like have you got your content,

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Speaker 1: have you got your slides? What are you going to say?

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Speaker 1: Do you have any skill? What are you going to wear?

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Speaker 1: You do your background on the group and all of

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Speaker 1: that so and all of those things are crucial, but

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Speaker 1: you don't really think about what impact the environment will

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Speaker 1: have on your energy, your mindset and your performance. Like

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Speaker 1: it is such a it is you created such a

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Speaker 1: good space. And when I go into some companies, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this would be a fucking horrible place to work. Not

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Speaker 1: because the bus is bad or not because the culture bad,

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Speaker 1: but this joint is depressing, suppressing, yep, for sure. You

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Speaker 1: and I were talking about not that organization, but you

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Speaker 1: went into a place we'll say once upon a time,

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Speaker 1: and once upon a time when you're in this place,

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Speaker 1: I won't say what, because I don't want anyone to

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Speaker 1: figure it out, but you said to me yesterday, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, it would be horrible to work there. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was just so over stimulating from the aspect that

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Speaker 2: there was a huge amount of lights. It was an

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Speaker 2: incredibly white, stark space. You know, even the tables were

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Speaker 2: too light, so therefore the reflection of the light was

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Speaker 2: bouncing off the table. And not only was the space

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Speaker 2: very you know, the hospital like, you know, the heat

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Speaker 2: in the in the space was just overwhelmingly suppressive, you know,

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Speaker 2: so being able to when you're presenting as you know,

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Speaker 2: you're moving around, you're talking, there's a certain amount of energy.

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Speaker 2: Your body's sort of on alert, you know, because you're

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Speaker 2: you're also taking in what's happening in the room and

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Speaker 2: the conversation and being switched on all the time, so

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Speaker 2: you're running at a particular level and your body is

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Speaker 2: at a different heat, you know than somebody sitting down.

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Speaker 2: And I found that after I'd finished being there, after

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Speaker 2: a couple of hours, I was utterly exhausted, but I

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Speaker 2: felt like I lost three kilos in weight because it

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Speaker 2: was just oppressive, the weight, the heat was just awful,

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Speaker 2: and the environment was just too stark and intensive. And

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Speaker 2: so when I come back to what sort of environments

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Speaker 2: do you want to create, and when you're tackling some

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Speaker 2: issues that may have emotional attachment to it, it's not

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Speaker 2: the most optimal environment to be able to have a

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Speaker 2: sense of you know, psychological or physical safety. It felt

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Speaker 2: like you had to be on alert and you know,

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Speaker 2: almost vibrating in a sense of anxiety and streps because

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Speaker 2: it was so intense, so intense. So, yeah, environment is

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Speaker 2: everything and was everything even when I was teaching, you know,

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Speaker 2: having the classroom, you know, at a particular temperature, having

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Speaker 2: it a certain lighting in the room. You know, what

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Speaker 2: did the room look like for the children to come

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Speaker 2: into and four parents to enter into. What did we

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Speaker 2: do in the space to make it beautiful? What was

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Speaker 2: their contribution to that space? All of those elements. To

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Speaker 2: feel a sense of, you know, being relaxed and being

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Speaker 2: calm and being supported is crucial, crucial.

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Speaker 1: I used to I used to have this awareness around

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Speaker 1: my back. I'm stepping back into the Harpers days for

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Speaker 1: those of you who don't know me well and you're

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Speaker 1: newish to the show. So I owned I owned gyms

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Speaker 1: for twenty five years which were not very creative called Harper's,

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Speaker 1: and I also managed gyms before that. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things that people probably have most of our listeners

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Speaker 1: would never have thought of is this. I used to

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Speaker 1: train a lot of women. Like seventy to eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of my total clients were women. Now, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the women that I trained were not traditional gym goers.

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Speaker 1: They just got referred to me because they wanted to,

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Speaker 1: you know, get in shape whatever that meant changed their

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Speaker 1: body in some way. Right, Yeah, So I had all

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Speaker 1: of these women who were not and blokes, but most

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Speaker 1: of like were not. Then I was twenty five, twenty

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Speaker 1: six and I was, you know, fucking buzzing, But a

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Speaker 1: lot of my clients were fifty. They weren't me. They

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Speaker 1: weren't a version of me. They didn't want to be me,

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Speaker 1: and I don't blame them. So I'm working with a

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Speaker 1: lot of people that are somewhere in the ballpark have

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Speaker 1: double my age. They're not natural gym goers. They're not athletes.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to be on the bodybuilding stage. And

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Speaker 1: they would come into the gym, men and women, and

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Speaker 1: it wasn't while they wanted to be there, and I

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Speaker 1: could kind of make it okay for them. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: their natural habitat and it wasn't a place that they

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Speaker 1: loved to be because it was very testosterony, right, And

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Speaker 1: a lot of the gym equipment was black or gray

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Speaker 1: or black and gray, so metal frames, gray, black whites,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it was quite dark and there wasn't

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Speaker 1: a lot of it wasn't very enticing it. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: a lot of color. And so anyway, I when I

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Speaker 1: set up Harper's the first, you know, my first gym

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Speaker 1: or Pete Studios, really, I bought all of my gym

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Speaker 1: equipment and I had it all powder coat it, which

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Speaker 1: is what they do to metal, not yet which different colors.

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Speaker 1: So I, lily had all the frames. I had pink,

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Speaker 1: I had purple, I had light blue, I had white,

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Speaker 1: I had yellow, I had orange. So if you walked

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Speaker 1: up it to my gym, it looked like fucking a

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Speaker 1: child's play center, you know. So all the upholstery was

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Speaker 1: black and all the Obviously the carpet was the same,

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Speaker 1: but it was just like people like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: hell like it didn't look like a traditional dark, stark intimidating.

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Speaker 1: And because most of my clients were women, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to train in a fucking dungeon with no

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Speaker 1: mirrors and no noise and dust, right' I thrive in

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Speaker 1: that shit. So I didn't need it, but my clients

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Speaker 1: loved it, and I made them just you know, we're

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Speaker 1: still in a gym full of gym equipment. It just

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Speaker 1: happens to be somewhat atypical from the norm. And that

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Speaker 1: was one of the things that people would say, I

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Speaker 1: love the colors. I love the colors. It didn't particularly

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Speaker 1: go It's not like there was any rhyme or reason. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was never going to win a fucking award for

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Speaker 1: the daycoor or for the It's never going to be

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Speaker 1: in home beautiful, but sucho logically, But you think, as

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Speaker 1: an employer or a coach or anyone, I think, I think,

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Speaker 1: how can I create a space? And I did a

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Speaker 1: thing with fern Wood, not last week, the week before,

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Speaker 1: and the title of so, by the way, Fernwood, I'm

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Speaker 1: not just saying this because they pay me to do gigs,

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Speaker 1: but I really like them as an organization. There's no

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Speaker 1: perfect organization, but they do a pretty fucking good job, right.

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Speaker 1: And I had to do a keynote called Irresistible Culture,

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Speaker 1: building an irresistible culture, and like I spoke about just

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Speaker 1: creating a place, whether that's a place, a physical place,

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Speaker 1: a room, a gym, a center, or an organization that

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Speaker 1: in general terms, people want to be in. You know,

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Speaker 1: Like my question is not even with my trainers, it

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Speaker 1: didn't used to be necessarily how great was the workout,

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Speaker 1: although that matters, you know, anatomy and physiology and did

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Speaker 1: you set the bike seat at the right height? And

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Speaker 1: did you teach them how to do the deadlift? But

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Speaker 1: all those things are really important, But what overrides all

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Speaker 1: of that is, Hey, do they want to come back?

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Speaker 1: Do they like this place? Do they feel, if not comfortable,

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Speaker 1: heading towards comfortable. And you can ask that same question,

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Speaker 1: like with your space that you have where you bring

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Speaker 1: people into for training and teaching and coaching and all

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Speaker 1: of those things. Do people like being in the space?

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Speaker 1: Do they want to come back? And part of that's

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Speaker 1: you and your energy, but also part of it, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really overlooked variable in building culture

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Speaker 1: and build an environment that people want to be in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I suppose you know, for where I am

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Speaker 2: being in the city, it's a bit of a concrete jungle,

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Speaker 2: you know, and those workspaces that most people go into

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Speaker 2: are pretty much, you know, a carbon copy of each

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Speaker 2: other to a certain degree. And this is so different

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Speaker 2: because there's so much light there, so that the windows

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Speaker 2: are huge, and the space is big and broad, and

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Speaker 2: so there isn't that feeling of being claustrophobic, and you

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Speaker 2: can see outside and there's a balcony and all of

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Speaker 2: those sorts of things. So you know, finding the right

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Speaker 2: spot has taken some time to land here, but it's

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Speaker 2: a nice space to actually work in. Energetically, it's a

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Speaker 2: nice space to be in.

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Speaker 1: And also well and also you've got a bunch of

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Speaker 1: plants and if they are do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: I think having you know, not that I've everybody needs

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Speaker 1: to but I don't know. I'm a little bit addicted

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Speaker 1: because you're a country girl. I'm a country boy. But

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Speaker 1: also there's another I mean, this is very this is

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Speaker 1: still related, but somewhat different. I think another thing that

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Speaker 1: we don't consider much, which really impacts on how you

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00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 1: feel when you work, how well you can focus, how productive, proactive,

427
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 1: effective you are, whatever you want to call it. But

428
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: the working experience for me anyway, is what you're wearing now. I,

429
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: as you know, under sufferance, will put on fucking jeans

430
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: and boots. That for me is like black tie, right yea.

431
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: But even then I'm in a black T shirt and like,

432
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: right now, I'm going to show you. I'm going to

433
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: lean back. I just lifted up my barefoot like I

434
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: spend my life in shorts, T shirt and bare feet

435
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: like I only I would never put on a pair

436
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: of long pants in my life unless I had to,

437
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: which is not to say they're bad. I just am

438
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: not comfortable in them. I am like, if I come

439
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: and sit in here in a T shirt or a

440
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: single that PERI shorts, bare feet, that's my happy space,

441
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: that's where my body feels good. But if I had

442
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: to go to a place each day, and this is why,

443
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: and I've shared this many times, I realized when I

444
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: was twenty ish that I didn't want a job. I

445
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: wanted to work, but I didn't want a job right,

446
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: I didn't want to work with someone like if I

447
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: had been brought in some reality where for whatever reason,

448
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: I had to me personally put on a suit and

449
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: a shirt and a tie and fucking black leather shoes

450
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: and drive into an office and oh I couldn't have

451
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: done it. I mean if I guess if I had to.

452
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: But you know, but that and I think that's understanding,

453
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: like and it's not wrong either, by the way, it's

454
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 1: just like, well, that doesn't work for me. If I

455
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 1: had to, I could do that. But you know, like

456
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: I always used to think, how can I Like, I'm

457
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: not lazy. I want to work, but I just want

458
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: to do the thing that I want to do, keep

459
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: fully realizing that there'll be shit that I need to

460
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 1: do that it ain't fun. But for the most part,

461
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 1: so I basically just built my own career, like I

462
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: just built this. Like there wasn't personal training, there wasn't

463
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: a course, there wasn't an accreditation, there wasn't insurance, there

464
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: wasn't an industry. But I knew that people would pay

465
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: me back then like forty bucks an hour, which seems

466
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: fuck all now, but it was in six I was

467
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: the king. I'm like fuck.

468
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: I know, there's so many multi layers to having a

469
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: sense of feeling comfortable in yourself. And you know, we

470
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: can think about how we're thinking physically or mentally, sorry,

471
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 2: and a lot of that is driven by how we're

472
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: feeling physically. And you know, I'm not a huge fan

473
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: of trying to say to people that you've got to

474
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: look this way all that way. I think people do

475
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: the best work when they're in their comfort zone and

476
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: what gives them a sense of calmness. And you know,

477
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 2: if that means that they're wearing a tracksuit to get

478
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: the job done, so be it. So you know, at

479
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's not what they're wearing

480
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: that matters the most, it's what are they doing? And

481
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: how am I whether I'm in an educational role or

482
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: whether I'm in a leadership role working with people, how

483
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 2: can I support that person to get the best potential

484
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: outcomes for them in the role that they're doing, So,

485
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: how can I invest in them? What's my service to

486
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 2: them in order to do that and encouraging them to

487
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: have a beautiful space. And you know, if I know myself,

488
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: when I'm really busy and my desk becomes cluttered. It

489
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: is the least desired space for me to sit right right,

490
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: you know, I don't want to go near it because

491
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: I don't like it. I like organization. I like things

492
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: to be pulled away. I like a clean space to

493
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 2: be at. I want to be able to see all

494
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: the other beautiful things that are around me, you know.

495
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: I don't want to sit in the middle of a mess.

496
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: You know. And sometimes psychologically, depending on how busy it is,

497
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: that sometimes happens at your desk, it's hard to come

498
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 2: back to face it.

499
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think there's a real I mean,

500
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: obviously in the last you know, the last five years,

501
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: especially because of COVID and you know, things were changing

502
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: a little bit. But obviously there's a lot of people

503
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,479
Speaker 1: now working from home, although and that's no elation, you know,

504
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: but also there's a shift with people going back into

505
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: the workspace or a bit of both, you know, a

506
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: bit of a you know, split kind of thing. But

507
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: I think what is happening broadly is some traditions are

508
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: being challenged. Obviously, I mean obviously with the way that

509
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: we work in terms of technology now, but moreover comma

510
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: just with yeah, like the idea of well let's have

511
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: a space where if somebody wants to go sit in

512
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: a bean bag with their laptop in a pair of

513
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: shorts and T shirt. You know, Fuck, let's are they productive?

514
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: Are they doing the work? Are they? Well, yes, we'll

515
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: let them sit in the fucking bean bag. Like why

516
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: do we all have to be designated into fucking cubicles

517
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: or boxes in a suit? Like? Is this optimal for

518
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 1: creativity and productivity and enjoyment and culture and connection? Is

519
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: this the way that humans work best? Fuck? No, All right,

520
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean we've got to go buy one hundred

521
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: bean bags, but maybe it means we've got to go

522
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: Look the way that we have done this for some

523
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: people is great or some is kind of acceptable, but

524
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: for some people it doesn't work. And I mean we

525
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: see that not just in the workplace, but in education,

526
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: you know. And that's not throwing the education system or

527
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: any teachers under the bus. You've been a teacher most

528
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: of your life, but it's understanding that. And I know

529
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: on the macro level with big organizations this is harder

530
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: to execute, But in small to medium sized businesses, I reckon,

531
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, if I was going to go start and

532
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: I employed five hundred people. If I was going to

533
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: start a new business, I would do some things quite

534
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: I think I did not a bad job, but I

535
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: fucked things up for sure, that we all. But I

536
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: would now. You know, It's like Tiff who works for

537
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: me in a part time capacity right now. She generally

538
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 1: sits in on or edits three or four podcasts a

539
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: week of my seven now, and she gets paid a

540
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: set weekly wage, which is not terrible, not amazing, but

541
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 1: it's enough. Now if she happens to do all of

542
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: the work for the week on Monday morning and finishes

543
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: by two pm, and then she does nothing for the

544
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: next six and a half days, but she's done the

545
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: editing or whatever she I like. I don't care how

546
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: it's done. I just care. I don't care if you

547
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: do it all on one day and you get paid

548
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: a week's wage for that one that I don't care

549
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: because all I need is this stuff done. All I

550
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: care is that you do it well, Yes, how you

551
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: do it? Why would that bother me? If it bothers

552
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: me because you're sitting in a bean bag and not

553
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: at a desk, well then I'm the problem, you know,

554
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: That's right.

555
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: That's micromanaging. And I was reading something that two days ago,

556
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 2: and you know how there's their terms about quietly quitting,

557
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: and then there's another one that's talking about quietly holidaying

558
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: or quietly taking time off. And I think there's one

559
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 2: fairly big computer group that is in the press at

560
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: the moment because they're really wanting their employees to come

561
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 2: back into the office. They don't want them to be

562
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 2: working at home anymore. And they're up in arms about

563
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: the fact that some of their employees are going away

564
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 2: on a holiday. They're still working and they're still being productive,

565
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: but they're really resentful about the fact that they're doing

566
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 2: their work from fig or wherever they're at. And my

567
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: mindset is, how does it make any difference whether they're

568
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: at home or whether they're in vg, or if they're

569
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 2: anywhere else in the world. If they're doing the work,

570
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 2: where they do the work, how does that matter? If

571
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: they're if they're still producing and they're still doing and

572
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: they're loving their life because they're able to do the

573
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: work and still live a really engaging life. How am

574
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: I How am I losing as an employer?

575
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: What is what is the art? I mean, I don't

576
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: know who you talk I've got an idea, doesn't matter

577
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: who What is their argument, like, what is the alleged

578
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: problem that they have, like where?

579
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: Well, well, yeah, they were saying that, you know, they

580
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: feel like they're taking holidays on the company's time and

581
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 2: that they're not taking their say, scheduled holiday break and

582
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 2: being away from the workplace, so they feel like they're

583
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: paying for their employer's holiday. And I'm a bit like, well,

584
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: I don't see it in that perspective, because they're still

585
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: working and the location doesn't matter where they are in

586
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 2: their home or at a library or in fig or

587
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: at an airport, if they're still doing the work. They're

588
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,800
Speaker 2: still doing the work. They're not on holidays, They're working

589
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 2: and producing, and I.

590
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: Think it just speaks to the fact that different people

591
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: work and thrive in different you know, environments. And you know,

592
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: it's like, I literally I could move to Queensland for

593
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: three months and apart from my speaking gigs, but in

594
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: terms of the podcast, in terms of my PhD consulting coaching,

595
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: you know, it would be I couldn't do everything, but

596
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: I could do most of it. And with my corporate stuff,

597
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: I just have to fly a bit more. But yeah,

598
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: but you know. But even then, it's like I did.

599
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 1: I did a series of talks for Hewlett Packard through COVID,

600
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: and I did, on average for I think it was

601
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,919
Speaker 1: about a year, a bit over a year. I did

602
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: like one a month ish, And I was thinking, like

603
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: I did. I think it was forty two countries or

604
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: forty four countries at once, right, And so there was

605
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: like four and a half thousand people on the call. Wow,

606
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: And I was sitting not where I am now, I

607
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: was sitting in the studio downstairs. But I mean, how

608
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: crazy is that is that I am I'm doing a

609
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: live gig literally wearing what I'm wearing now, T shirt, shorts,

610
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 1: bare feet to four and a half thousand people. Yeah,

611
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 1: a very large organization. And I would, let's say, I

612
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: would talk from eleven a m. Till midday, i'd finish,

613
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: i'd sign off, we'd have a good time. I'd answer

614
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: a few questions. Obviously can't answer four thousand questions, but

615
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's a moderator or an MC. And then

616
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: at twelve oh three, I'm up out of that seat

617
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:56,720
Speaker 1: and I'm in the kitchen, which is six feet away,

618
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: making a cup of tea and nobody's missing out and

619
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm getting paid reasonable dough. They're getting the convenience of

620
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: Craig harp alive into forty two or four countries, whatever

621
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, they can pay me way less than

622
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 1: if they needed to fly me too. Different, right, And

623
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 1: you know what, the world's just different. Works, just different.

624
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 1: The way that we deliver things, the way that we

625
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,839
Speaker 1: sell things, the way that we buy things. And I

626
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 1: think some people are a little bit trapped in tradition,

627
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,959
Speaker 1: and I think tradition's good to the point where it's shit,

628
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: you know.

629
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. Look, you know, I do think

630
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: sometimes depending upon what the actual work might be, and

631
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: sometimes you've got some people that do need to have

632
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: that human connectedness that they need to be in the

633
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: space with other people. I'm a little bit old school

634
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: like that, So I do like to be in a

635
00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,919
Speaker 2: physical space with some with people. Sometimes not all the time,

636
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,800
Speaker 2: as you know, but so sometimes I think that depending

637
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 2: upon what it is, there may be a need to

638
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: bring people together. But do you need to do it

639
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: every single week? That would be questionable, you know. And

640
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 2: I do think that we do miss some of that

641
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 2: human interaction when we're doing zooms because people jump on

642
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 2: and they jump off, so there's none of that sort

643
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: of you know, cursory conversation that goes on either before

644
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 2: a meeting starts or at the meeting conclusion. And you know,

645
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: we become better and stronger when we've got somebody that

646
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: maybe is sitting next to us that is brighter and

647
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: more intelligent than what we are. So I feel like

648
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: there's a little bit that we can miss in not

649
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 2: being connected with other people. But I wouldn't say that

650
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 2: that has to be the definitive must be. I think

651
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 2: there's elements for all.

652
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: I've got a friend who's recently gone back to work

653
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: after a very long time, not at like working remotely

654
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: and a guy, and he absolutely loves it and it's

655
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 1: less convenient. But he said to me. I saw him

656
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: the other day and we were talking. He said, I

657
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: didn't realize that the impact that being by myself in

658
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: my house, you know, like yet sure convenient, but not

659
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: emotionally good, not psychologically good, you know, And you and me,

660
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 1: it's like I live by myself. I have a studio

661
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: at home, in an office at home, but I need

662
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: to be around people, not all day every day, but

663
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: every morning I'm at the cafe, I'm there for at

664
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: least an hour and a half. I talked to people.

665
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: I often sit with people, and you know, blah blah blah.

666
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: Every day this which is online, of course, but also

667
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: every day I'm at the gym around humans for at

668
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: least an hour and a half. That like, there is

669
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: a fair bit of face to face. Even though I

670
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: do love working the way that I do and I

671
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 1: don't want to go sit in a cubicle. I would

672
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: go fucking nuts if I couldn't give someone a hug,

673
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: or talk shit, or have a copy with someone, or

674
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: be in a room with a human. Yeah, you know,

675
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: I think it's finding the you know that they say

676
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: in medicine it's all about the dose. I think in sociology.

677
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: I think in sociology it's all about the dose. You know,

678
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: those people that you love being with them for an hour,

679
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 1: but four hours fucking way too much.

680
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 2: It's a bit like vegi might some people. A little

681
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 2: bit goes a long way, and you love it while

682
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 2: you're doing it, but then you know energetically you've got

683
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: to step back from that because it's too exhausting to

684
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: stay in that space for an extended period of time.

685
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: You know, I wanted to I wanted to ask you something.

686
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: You were talking about a tech company before and on

687
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 1: the front of the Herald Son today. Yeah, I actually

688
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: when I was before I got a coffee. I haven't

689
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: read it. I've just glimpsed at it and scanned it.

690
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 1: But I wanted to talk to you about this. So

691
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: those of you don't know Mayores works in or just

692
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 1: give everyone the snapshot of what you currently do and

693
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: what you did. So we've probably got thirty percent of

694
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: our audience today don't know you. So okay, before I

695
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: opened the door on this conversation, give them context so

696
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: they know why the fuck I'm asking you what I'm

697
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: about to ask you.

698
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: Alrighty. So I was in private business EARL when I

699
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 2: was younger, moved into the educational space and was an

700
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: assistant print for over twenty years, and then stepped out

701
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 2: of that space, that that leadership role and run my

702
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 2: own business again. And I do just like physical first

703
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 2: DAI training, I do mental health first DAID training, same

704
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: bit different obviously to identify mental health issues. But I'm

705
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 2: also and Indie, a registered INDIAS provider which focuses predominantly

706
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 2: on the early years of child development, and you know

707
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 2: disability supports and psychological coaching.

708
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: And you worked with kids obviously, as you said, in

709
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: your teaching career which was decades long, and as an

710
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: assistant principal. But I also know that in many ways

711
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: you were kind of running the show. You wouldn't say that,

712
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: but I know that you were. And I also know

713
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: that you worked with and this is no disrespect because

714
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 1: you loved the kids and you loved the teachers, but

715
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: you worked with kids that really had challenges, who were

716
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: from families that really had challenges in a range of issues,

717
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: in a range of different ways. And I know that

718
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: while you loved that everything has a used by date,

719
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: and that you know, you just about killed yourself trying

720
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: to save others, so to speak. But off the back

721
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: of that, I just want it. So today I'm the

722
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: herald son they've got. I don't know if you can

723
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: see that. No, you can't. It says I'm trying to No,

724
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: it says fast book, and it's got the blue Facebook

725
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: f Yeah, so it's a play on words Facebook fast Book,

726
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: and it says despite suicide's body shaming and bullying, Facebook

727
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 1: boss says, I don't think social media has done harm

728
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: to our children. Now, I just I want to just

729
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: chat a little bit about because you still do stuff

730
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: with schools. I know that you still work with students

731
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: and in a way and also with teachers, and I

732
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: won't say which school, but I know that you still

733
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: do stuff and you still have an advisory consultant kind

734
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 1: of role. So my question is, like, do I think

735
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 1: social media is awesome? No? Do I think it's the devil? No?

736
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: I mean, what I find interesting is that we want

737
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: to blame forget Facebook. It could be TikTok, it could

738
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: be Instagram, it could be fucking any of the platforms,

739
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 1: but we want to blame the platform without it all

740
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 1: thinking about the people who are using. Like I use

741
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: all of those platforms, but it doesn't fuck up my

742
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 1: life in fact for me. Now, I'm not saying it's

743
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: good or bad. I'm just saying my experience, well, for me,

744
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 1: Facebook has been kind of helpful for my business, as

745
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: has Instagram, as as you know an even you know, LinkedIn,

746
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: which is another platform that we have available to us. Now, yep,

747
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that Facebook doesn't ever do bad things

748
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: or they you know, they don't have issues that they

749
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: don't need to deal with or resolve. But ultimately, you know,

750
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: it's just a tool that people are using, right Facebook

751
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: is a tool that's human's use. Now. Human beings get

752
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: on there and say horrible shit. Yep, Facebook isn't on

753
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: there posting horrible shit. Humans are and Facebook is the

754
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: tool or the medium that they use right now. This

755
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: is not. And I just think that it's like, you know,

756
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: an Instagram will I use Instagram every day, and for me,

757
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 1: it's a really fucking handy resource. I use this podcasting

758
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: platform every day, and I'm really glad I'm partnered with Nova.

759
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 1: Thanks Nova. You know, this is another technology, another mechanism

760
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: that allows me to connect with the world. So for me,

761
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: and again just my experience, Facebook is a free platform

762
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: that allows me to connect with people. Instagram is the same,

763
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: LinkedIn is the same, this podcast is the same. Like

764
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes we're blaming the resource or the

765
00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: tool while taking no personal accountability, Like what how much

766
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: of it is? Like? There are there are kids that

767
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: get on there and do nasty shit and say nasty

768
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: shit to each other and adults of course, but there

769
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: are kids that never do that. Right, What is the

770
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: what is the role and why do we want to

771
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 1: blame the tool rather than the users of the tool

772
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: or what are your thoughts on that? In general? When

773
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: you think about kids having access to, you know, all

774
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: of these platforms, like there's talk of them. I know

775
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 1: I'm over talking self awareness moment, Thank you, Craig. There's

776
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: there's awareness, there's awareness. There's talk about kids not being

777
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: able to use Instagram tool there I think sixteen Good

778
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: luck policing that. But what are your thoughts all this?

779
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: Look, it's an interesting area, isn't it, Because if you

780
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: go back to when we were growing up, we really

781
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 2: only had access to a televis and that was very

782
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 2: minimal because I don't know what it was like at

783
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: your house, but when Dad came home, he had really

784
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: the full control of the television and we were just

785
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: sort of the other people in the room that went

786
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: along with the experience. It wasn't like, well, the kids

787
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 2: are watching that and you'll have to wait till they're finished.

788
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 2: There was none of that. And you know, I came

789
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: from a big family, so it was everybody in the

790
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 2: lounge room around one television set. And when we got

791
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 2: to it was like we were rich by having a

792
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: second television in the space, and so there was a

793
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: lot more reliance on you know, making our own entertainment,

794
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 2: either reading a book or listening to music or going

795
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 2: outside playing, etc. So our exposure to television and you know,

796
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 2: movie news cycles all of those sorts of things were

797
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: incredibly minimal. And I don't know what it was like

798
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 2: you guys, but there was a rule in our house

799
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: that the television didn't go on until late in the

800
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 2: day and on Saturday mornings. You weren't lucky because you've

801
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 2: got a little bit of time of watching cartoons in

802
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: the morning. But apart from that, there was a limit

803
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: on how much exposure that we had to those devices.

804
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,360
Speaker 2: And then when I became a mum, and as my

805
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 2: daughter was growing up and I'd started teaching at that time,

806
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 2: one of the things that we would start to see

807
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: with a lot of kids was that they were having

808
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 2: televisions in their bedrooms and those kids were then having

809
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 2: significantly disrupted sleep and we would ask the kids, you know,

810
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: do that sort of survey, who's got a computer, who's

811
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: got a TV? All of those sorts of things, and

812
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 2: the number of kids that were watching TVs until you know,

813
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 2: eleven thirty twelve o'clock at night, and they would wait

814
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 2: until their parents were asleep and they pop the TV

815
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: and you know, watch another video was happening back in

816
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 2: the nineties, you know, into late nineties. So you know,

817
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: and now my daughter has become a mother, and you know,

818
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: the kids were given iPad screens at twelve months, eighteen months.

819
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 2: They were using screens at a very early time frame.

820
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 2: And at one point, educationally, there was all of this

821
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: talk about that it was healthy and this is the

822
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: way of the future, and we want to get kids

823
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: exposed to it as soon as we possibly can. And

824
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 2: then as an educator, you're seeing kids being so addicted

825
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 2: to it like crap cocaine, and if you're wanting to

826
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: remove that from the child, that you'd end up with

827
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: this incredible significant behavior, all outburst because you're taking it

828
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 2: often just like kids that are into gaming, same bit different.

829
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: And so the amount of exposure that the kids have

830
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 2: got access to on the devices has significantly increased. And

831
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,399
Speaker 2: you know, I often say to people here when they're

832
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: talking about mental health training, I'd say our news cycle

833
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 2: significantly changed. We went from you know, morning news, midday news,

834
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 2: to evening news. And then Princess Diana died and our

835
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 2: news cycle changed the day she died, and it went

836
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: from morning, midday evening to news on the hour, and

837
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 2: we were getting constant updates about what had happened with

838
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: Princess Diana, and it never moved back. And then September

839
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 2: eleventh happened, and I remember working in the school at

840
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: the time, and the new cycle went from News on

841
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 2: the hour to twenty four hour news, and you know,

842
00:51:55,960 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 2: our exposure to that news and obviously on September eleventh,

843
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: the initial broadcast of what happened on that day wasn't

844
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 2: cleaned up. We had kids sitting in front of a

845
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: TV screen watching people, you know, jumping from buildings, you know,

846
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until there was a bit of an

847
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 2: awareness around, hey, we probably need to do something about

848
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 2: these are loved ones that are falling, you know, to

849
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: their deaths, that they actually cleaned that imaging up. And

850
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: you know, we've got kids that have been impacted by

851
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,240
Speaker 2: what they've seen on the TV screen, let alone what's

852
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 2: on a you know, a device. And you know the

853
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: other part around that is while parents try to put

854
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 2: as many things into play to protect their child from content.

855
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 2: Not all of those protective measures are doing what parents

856
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 2: think they're supposed to be doing. And so kids being

857
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,959
Speaker 2: exposed to content that is well beyond the years, well

858
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 2: beyond their level of understanding, and let's not even start

859
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: on the conversation of predatory components to it as well.

860
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 2: And you know, when we talk about you and I,

861
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 2: we've lived through a very different you know, lifespan of

862
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:28,720
Speaker 2: decades of not having a mobile phone. Ever, we lived

863
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,280
Speaker 2: through the time of when the bricks first came out

864
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: and then the Nokias and all of those. The kids

865
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 2: today have got nothing to compare that to. So psychologically

866
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 2: we can make a bit of a comparison. The kids

867
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: today have got nothing to compare it to because that

868
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: has been their life, you know, for X amount of years,

869
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 2: is having exposure to these devices and not actually being

870
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: able to see what the dangers are associated to it.

871
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: You know, how it's impacting their brain, how much it's

872
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 2: impacting sleep, how much it's influencing their own psychological view

873
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: of who they are as a person. And it's an

874
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: interesting thing in your I know you've mentioned this book

875
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: before because I think did you have the person on

876
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: your podcast around bad therapy.

877
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: No, I've just spoken about Abigail Schreyer a little bit.

878
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in her book. I was just only reading

879
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: it interestingly this morning, and she was talking about the

880
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 2: fact that, you know, devices are so damaging to the

881
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 2: brain and the development of young people. And we're not

882
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,399
Speaker 2: putting any sort of I'm not saying she's completely right here,

883
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 2: I'm just referring to what she cared. But she was

884
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 2: talking about the damage and the issues surrounding using the

885
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: use of tablets, and there's no sort of warning signs

886
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 2: around it, not like there was if you're accessing or

887
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 2: using or utilizing cigarettes. So there's nothing that's coming out

888
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: around what are the dangers associated with child use and

889
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 2: you know abuse of the use of you know, tablets

890
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 2: and mobile phones, et cetera. So she's got a very

891
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,239
Speaker 2: interesting perspective on it.

892
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, interestingly, we did interview Todd Todd Sampson, you

893
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 1: know Todd Sampson, the.

894
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, lov And.

895
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: We interviewed him about a special that he did. I

896
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,399
Speaker 1: forget the name of the special, but it was all

897
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: around that. It was all around the potential dangers of

898
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: you know, technology and the way that obviously it just

899
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 1: depends on the use. I think, you know, as we

900
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,960
Speaker 1: spoke before, it's about the dose. It's like, and I

901
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: might sound judging, and I say what I'm about to,

902
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: and I apologize if I do, because I'm not for me.

903
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: It was not so much judgmental as just awareness. But

904
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: the other day, I was at the cafe and I

905
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:12,720
Speaker 1: was meeting someone through the day, so it wasn't early

906
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: and there was a couple who came in and I've

907
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: never had a kid, so I'm not a parent, so

908
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,680
Speaker 1: I've got no fucking idea. But they had this kid

909
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 1: that was screaming his ass off. I mean, I fucking

910
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 1: they was screaming the house down. And then they put

911
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: one of those clip on chairs on the side of

912
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: the table. Yep. Then they shoved him in and they

913
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 1: put a fucking one of the what do you call it,

914
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 1: an iPad in his hand, and he just went silent.

915
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: And that was it. He went from out of control

916
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 1: to mesmerized in five seconds. And I'm like, oh God,

917
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't if I was a parent, I'd probably do

918
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: the same, Like, what are your options in that moment?

919
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,120
Speaker 1: You go, He's either going to scream the house down

920
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: or I do this thing and it all stops. I mean,

921
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: that's a fucking conundrum, isn't it.

922
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,080
Speaker 2: Well, I have got a client that I work with

923
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: and their young fellow is very much like that, well,

924
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 2: tantrum and two extremes to the point where can be

925
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:28,439
Speaker 2: quite violent and aggressive towards mum and dad. And you know,

926
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: the number of conversations that I have with parents at

927
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 2: the moment is that I think parents live with a

928
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: certain level of fear. There's a fear around saying no,

929
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: or there's a fear of removing that device because they

930
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with the tantrum. And you know,

931
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 2: I said to them, if you don't get a handle

932
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: on this before this young fellow finishes in grade four,

933
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,320
Speaker 2: the horse is kind of bolted, right because they get

934
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 2: into grade five, six and there's got more autonomy, etc.

935
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: And they were like, so what do we do? Like,

936
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 2: we don't know how to resolve the issue, And I said, well,

937
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,439
Speaker 2: it's quite simple, and that is that you give them

938
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: some amount of time on the device and you're really

939
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 2: clear about when that's going to happen and for how

940
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 2: long that's going to happen, and that you might give

941
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:27,360
Speaker 2: them a warning of a timer that you know ten

942
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 2: minutes is going to be up, so we'll pop the

943
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 2: timer on and you can see the timer counting down.

944
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: But when that time comes up, that's got to be

945
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: passed in. And they were like, no way, and I said,

946
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's important for kids to be able

947
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 2: to be given some boundary around the use of the device.

948
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: And we then started talking about, so what happens when

949
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 2: we go out for dinner and I said, well, they

950
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: don't take it with them, and they were clearly almost

951
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: in panic attack around the idea of not taking the

952
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 2: device with them, and I said, well, when I had

953
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 2: my daughter younger, we used to have a going out

954
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: backpack and in that going out backpack there would be

955
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 2: a book or there would be a coloring book and

956
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 2: coloring pencils and other things to be able to do

957
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 2: at the table. But when she got to a certain age,

958
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: which was around this little fellow's age, I had a

959
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 2: bit of an expectation that she would engage in conversation

960
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: because we're going out for dinner and that was a

961
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: family time of being together and having a conversation, and

962
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,920
Speaker 2: if we're out with a group of parents, and there

963
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 2: was a group of kids together. Well, you know, they

964
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 2: had coloring books and things to use. And of course

965
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 2: their answer to me was where, Well, all of these

966
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: other families are going to be taking their kids and

967
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 2: all of their kids are going to be on devices

968
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 2: and ours won't be. And I said, and that's okay.

969
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: The world is going to keep spinning, I promise you.

970
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 2: And I said, and I think what you'll find is

971
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 2: you will influence the other kids at the table. And

972
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 2: they weren't convinced, but they went away and they followed

973
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,439
Speaker 2: through on the challenges that we put forward with them

974
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,160
Speaker 2: for the week. And they came back the following week

975
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 2: and they said, we were really scared about going out

976
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 2: and not taking the tablet with us. And I said, okay,

977
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 2: so what happened? What did you do? And they said, yep,

978
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,280
Speaker 2: we were took him to kmart and you know, created

979
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 2: this backpack and filled it with all things for them

980
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: to do while they were out for dinner. And she said,

981
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 2: and in the end, initially the other kids there were

982
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: on their tablets, but it didn't take them long to

983
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: actually put the tablets down and actually engage in what

984
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 2: he had in his backpack. Wow, you know, so I

985
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 2: think some times parents can become scared of the behavior

986
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 2: that can make them feel like they're not parenting particularly well,

987
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 2: and they don't want to interrupt other people around them,

988
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 2: et cetera. So therefore they go with the easiest. But

989
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 2: the easiest isn't always the healthiest, as we know with

990
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 2: so many other elements.

991
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, those like it or not, it's very

992
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: convenient to go here, you go. I mean, that's super

993
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: con and I'm you know, father of the year here

994
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 1: what would I know? Hey, we've been talking for over

995
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: an hour. Oh Jesus, you know that. Jeez, you're a

996
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: chatty Katherine. Hey, how can people connect with you and

997
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: maybe have a look at doing some mental health first aid,

998
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: whether or not it's for them individually or as an

999
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: organization bringing you or one of your team in How

1000
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: do people find you and connect with you?

1001
01:01:56,680 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 2: Well, just through our email address, which is info at

1002
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,120
Speaker 2: Diggingdeeper dot com dot are you Pretty simple?

1003
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 1: Really, info at diggingdeeper dot com dot are you? Mas?

1004
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: Your iyes?

1005
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: Ditto?

1006
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, love you, love you.

1007
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: Mark