WEBVTT - The Media Show | 13 June

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<v Speaker 1>Vice is the Media Show, with.

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<v Speaker 2>Jack outing Hello and welcome to the Media Show. There's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot to discuss tonight, including deepening chaos in America

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<v Speaker 2>and the end of two major Australian TV shows, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course, the media's role in encouraging a young activist

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<v Speaker 2>to try and enter a war zone. But first La

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<v Speaker 2>burns yet again, and Australian TV crews have rushed to

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<v Speaker 2>the action to let us know what's really going on.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not like when Warrior and it's just road testing.

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<v Speaker 4>The trigger for the president protest is spitting on police.

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<v Speaker 3>They sped, We hit, They hit all right and hard.

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<v Speaker 4>Up Here we go, There we go. Pepper spray, pepper spray.

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<v Speaker 4>We're moving backwards, guys, We're moving backwards. Pepper spray. They

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<v Speaker 4>mean business, these guys. The pepper spray, the tear gas

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<v Speaker 4>is in the air. It just gets to the back

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<v Speaker 4>of your throat, straight up into your nose.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's typically how pepper spray works, But one reporter

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<v Speaker 2>ended up becoming the story herself after one police officer

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<v Speaker 2>fight a rubber bullet into her leg.

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<v Speaker 5>Rubber bullets of protesters moving them on through the heart

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<v Speaker 5>of LA.

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<v Speaker 2>And a short while later Nines, Karl Stefanovic was doing

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<v Speaker 2>a frame by frame breakdown of what went wrong.

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<v Speaker 6>So if you slow the footage down, you can see

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<v Speaker 6>the officer aim his weapon, pulling the trigger while Lauren

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<v Speaker 6>had her back to him. She has her back to him,

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<v Speaker 6>she has a microphone and is standing in front of

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<v Speaker 6>a camera. We don't know what was near her, We

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<v Speaker 6>don't know what threat was so imminent it required a

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<v Speaker 6>cop to discharge his weapon on a reporter or whether

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<v Speaker 6>he meant to shoot her, But it sure looks.

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<v Speaker 3>Like that to me, and Carl is correct.

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<v Speaker 2>It is hard to know what was going on behind

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<v Speaker 2>find the reporter or out of the shot. But the

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<v Speaker 2>officer did snap his weapon around and point it straight

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<v Speaker 2>at her before firing.

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<v Speaker 3>Did he know she was media?

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<v Speaker 2>Impossible to say, that is unless, of course, you are

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<v Speaker 2>our prime minister.

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<v Speaker 3>He said targeted?

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<v Speaker 4>Was that how it was raised by the Strange government

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<v Speaker 4>that she was seemingly targeted by police?

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<v Speaker 7>She was clearly identified, was clearly identified. You know, there

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<v Speaker 7>was no ambiguity. She wasn't wearing a trackie, She's wearing

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<v Speaker 7>a helmet and something I identified her as media and.

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<v Speaker 8>It is not acceptable.

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<v Speaker 2>So Albanezi is turning this into a diplomatic incident, and

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<v Speaker 2>he doesn't even seem to have his facts right. The

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<v Speaker 2>reporter wasn't wearing a helmet, a crucial, crucial piece of

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<v Speaker 2>information that two GiB has been fulleda and seized on.

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<v Speaker 9>I'm not sure what footage the PM was watching because

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<v Speaker 9>Lauren didn't have any media signage that I could see,

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<v Speaker 9>and she certainly wasn't wearing a helmet. What helmet was

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<v Speaker 9>he talking about? The PM says she was clearly identified

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<v Speaker 9>as media, she was wearing a helmet and something that

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<v Speaker 9>identified her as media. Well, he's got himself very confused

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<v Speaker 9>on that front because the footage does not support the

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<v Speaker 9>PM's comments.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Joining me to discuss is Sky News contributor James Bold

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<v Speaker 2>and Managing editor at The Australian Darren Davidson. James, let's

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<v Speaker 2>start with you, let's bring you in. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>what happened in this situation. I don't know if the

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<v Speaker 2>police officer knew that this woman was a journalist and

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<v Speaker 2>then took a shot, or it was a mistake and

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<v Speaker 2>they were aiming at something that was offscreen. But for

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<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister to potentially be well, he has already,

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<v Speaker 2>he said, he raised it already directly with America. But

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<v Speaker 2>we know he's going to be in proximity of Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>To not have these basic facts right and to talk

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<v Speaker 2>with such certainty is a little bit worrying for me.

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<v Speaker 10>Yeah, I think, first off, like, yes, she's not a helmet,

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<v Speaker 10>but you're standing in front of a camera's have a

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<v Speaker 10>microphone in the backs to where there's other cameras. There

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<v Speaker 10>are some bad looking people around her at the time.

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<v Speaker 10>But I don't think like that's clearly a meltdown. But

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<v Speaker 10>as you say, for Albanesi to raise it with US

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<v Speaker 10>officials as if the meltdown of that officer is officially

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<v Speaker 10>sanctioned by the US government as something that they wanted

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<v Speaker 10>to see happen. I look forward to him bringing that

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<v Speaker 10>energy next time the Chinese warships get a little too

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<v Speaker 10>close to our maybe someone gets hurt. Maybe he might

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<v Speaker 10>bring that up with someone involved with China. Who's to

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<v Speaker 10>say this is the new way that he wants to

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<v Speaker 10>do foreign relations. But yeah, to your point, I mean,

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<v Speaker 10>between this sanctioning Israeli ministers, Tariff's defense spending, this G

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<v Speaker 10>seven meeting is going to be a bliedbath.

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<v Speaker 3>For ALBERENESI definitely.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, just had he not watched the footage, I

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<v Speaker 2>mean to say that with such certainty is really really strange. Now, Darren,

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<v Speaker 2>let's bring you in here. What do you make of

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<v Speaker 2>this whole situation.

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think you can really tell from one single

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<v Speaker 5>angle what that police officer was looking at. We know

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<v Speaker 5>that she's roughly in his eye line, but you really

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<v Speaker 5>need other angles to have a full picture of what

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<v Speaker 5>he's looking at in that moment. I find it hard

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<v Speaker 5>to believe I could be wrong that he directed his

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<v Speaker 5>gun with that rubber bullet at the journalist. I'm glad

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<v Speaker 5>Lawren's okay, she's on her and she's returned to work.

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<v Speaker 5>But I just I'm just a bit skeptical about whether

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<v Speaker 5>it was his intention to actually strike her with that

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<v Speaker 5>rubber bullet with intent. I find that hard to believe.

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<v Speaker 5>I think one of the other things that's kind of

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<v Speaker 5>struck me about the coverage more generally is just this

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<v Speaker 5>constant comparison to the nineteen ninety two LA riots, where

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<v Speaker 5>you know, there was real violence and there was lots

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<v Speaker 5>of life, and there was kind of deep upheaval and

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<v Speaker 5>carnage in communities these riots are very, very different. That's

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<v Speaker 5>the thing that's really struck me about the coverage, the

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<v Speaker 5>media coverage of what's happening at the moment on the

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<v Speaker 5>West Coast. Just these kind of really shallow, kind of

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<v Speaker 5>flawed comparisons to what happened in nineteen ninety two. I

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<v Speaker 5>don't think that's quite right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>Moving on now, two major shows have been canned, including

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<v Speaker 2>Channel ten's The Project.

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<v Speaker 4>Great to have you here.

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<v Speaker 6>We begin tonight, of course, sorry, we begin tonight.

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<v Speaker 3>With some big news. Fantastic. I think I got the

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<v Speaker 3>tone wrong. Oh it's not all right? Okay, Well, what

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<v Speaker 3>am I going to do with this? Onet me nineteen dollars?

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<v Speaker 3>You really missed that meeting.

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<v Speaker 8>That was a shame.

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<v Speaker 6>No, we are here to announce you're right there, I'm

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<v Speaker 6>all right.

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<v Speaker 3>Typical Project style. I should take us off air after.

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<v Speaker 6>After sixteen years and what nearly four and a half

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<v Speaker 6>thousand episodes, the Project will very soon be no more.

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<v Speaker 2>And of course, this news came shortly after it was

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<v Speaker 2>revealed that the ABC would acts its weekly panel show

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<v Speaker 2>Q and A. James want to bring you back in.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's start with the Project. That show really symbolizes the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest sin that you can commit. I think in television

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<v Speaker 2>it's just don't be boring. And it became this very sanitized,

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<v Speaker 2>safe product where people would stand up and say things like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I stand against crime and I'm not afraid to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, to make that very controversial stand.

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<v Speaker 10>Yeah, it is something you say a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, every time.

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<v Speaker 10>I'm blown away by the bravery of you. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 10>it's just like it's that in the sense. I mean

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<v Speaker 10>there weren't good journalists on there. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 10>Steve Rice's a colleague of ours, he's doing great work,

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<v Speaker 10>and there's some other people in there that are great.

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<v Speaker 10>But I think the other side to me is if

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<v Speaker 10>you pitch the project today, there's no chance that it

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<v Speaker 10>would be greenlit.

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<v Speaker 3>It's kind of.

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<v Speaker 10>Out there because it was kind of out there because

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<v Speaker 10>it was just there already and it was too hard

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<v Speaker 10>to change. But like a one hour aimed at the

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<v Speaker 10>under thirty five market, six thirty news and pop culture,

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<v Speaker 10>like I just I don't see on a free to

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<v Speaker 10>wear TV, which no one in that age demographic is

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<v Speaker 10>watching anymore. Like, if you can't pitch it again today,

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<v Speaker 10>why would you have it?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a good point, Darren. Do you agree with that? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I do.

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<v Speaker 5>What began, as you know, quite innovative formats became not

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<v Speaker 5>only boring, and they've been boring for some time. Those

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<v Speaker 5>two shows, they became kind of echo chambers that were

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<v Speaker 5>less about inquiry and more about affirmation. So I think

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<v Speaker 5>audiences can just kind of tell that they're stacked and

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<v Speaker 5>they're about advocacy, not having a genuine kind of contest

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<v Speaker 5>of ideas, and I think that and I think the

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<v Speaker 5>key word here is trust. So they kind of just

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<v Speaker 5>lost the trust of their audiences. They became boring, and

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<v Speaker 5>the audience has turned off. And we've seen the same

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<v Speaker 5>on some of the public broadcasts in other markets as well.

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<v Speaker 5>The BBC in the UK has a similar format, and

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<v Speaker 5>you know that's had very, very sharply declining ratings as well,

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<v Speaker 5>and I think for similar reasons. When they just stacked

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<v Speaker 5>these panels with activists and they become about advocacy, audiences

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<v Speaker 5>just tune out, I think, And that's what we've had

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<v Speaker 5>here with both of these formats, And as you say,

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<v Speaker 5>they're not interesting, they're not engaging, and they're ultimately just boring.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Q and A is a really interesting one because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, James, I remember when it was much must

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<v Speaker 2>watch television. You had to watch it to be across

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<v Speaker 2>the news cycle. Every it was on the Monday, and

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<v Speaker 2>every Tuesday there'd be stories off the back of it,

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<v Speaker 2>things that happened. And then it just kind of it

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of you know, fitted out in a very

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<v Speaker 2>sad way. But I think it's just it is the

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<v Speaker 2>one sort of format that a national broadcaster should have.

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<v Speaker 2>And can you imagine working on a show like Q

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<v Speaker 2>and A. And I think that it did need a revamp, right,

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<v Speaker 2>but you're getting sacked or the show's like off air,

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<v Speaker 2>and you've got a TikTok division just churning out the

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<v Speaker 2>most ridiculous, absurd, just puerile kind of content and for

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<v Speaker 2>a billion dollars a year, they cannot even staff a

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<v Speaker 2>weekly panel show.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it seems disgraceful to me.

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<v Speaker 10>I get Look, no one's gonna stand up for the

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<v Speaker 10>ABC TikTok division on this program. I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 10>do that. But what I would say, like back with

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<v Speaker 10>those said, with the projects, like again, if you're pitching

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<v Speaker 10>Q and A again, a one hour weekly chat show

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<v Speaker 10>with five political figures, you know, debating I mean, that's

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<v Speaker 10>eighteen years ago revolutionary Today it's everywhere. But so when

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<v Speaker 10>you pitch at eighteen years ago, you can have a

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<v Speaker 10>live audience, you can build a nightly program around this.

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<v Speaker 10>But when there's podcasts, when there's you know, twenty four

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<v Speaker 10>hour news programs like this, it doesn't have the luster.

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<v Speaker 10>But what I think ABC Q and A never got

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<v Speaker 10>that it wasn't it wasn't an event anymore. You didn't

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<v Speaker 10>need a full studio audings, you didn't need questions from

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<v Speaker 10>the audience, because again, that's X Now, it's not revolutionary,

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<v Speaker 10>it's not cutting edge. If you downsize Q and A

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<v Speaker 10>to just be a panel show, maybe it's still alive.

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<v Speaker 10>But when you need to fill a studio and you

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<v Speaker 10>need to do all these other things, it's just you

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<v Speaker 10>can't have that in.

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<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, I mean they don't have a profit incentive, right.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is a thing where I think the ABC

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<v Speaker 2>is making an absolute critical mistake. I think Hu Marx

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<v Speaker 2>is really blundered on this one, because you should be

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<v Speaker 2>able to put a product there which is intellectual and

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting, and for me watching Q and A, I

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<v Speaker 2>think the problem with it was every week you've got

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<v Speaker 2>the same tials on a couple of labor people are

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<v Speaker 2>very moderate conservative in inverted commas, so to speak, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's a sanitized program where people are saying predictable, nice

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<v Speaker 2>things that they want to be applauded for on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 2>And you can't watch it because there's no adversarial nature

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<v Speaker 2>to the show. There's no debate, there's nothing interesting of substance,

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not the media.

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<v Speaker 3>Agree.

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<v Speaker 5>I think when balance, I agree, it's not the medium.

0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:46.359
<v Speaker 5>When balance gives way to editorializing, you lose the credibility.

0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.880
<v Speaker 5>You lose credibility, and you lose the trust of the audience.

0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 5>And look, certainly shows like that, in formats like that

0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:57.079
<v Speaker 5>are challenged by the rise of audio and podcasts and

0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:01.600
<v Speaker 5>podcasts and other formats and things like that. But there's

0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:06.720
<v Speaker 5>plenty of examples of these formats being successful on other

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.559
<v Speaker 5>linear channels, those that have reinvented themselves and still remained

0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.320
<v Speaker 5>kind of balanced and invigorating for audiences. But yeah, I

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:18.040
<v Speaker 5>think it's as you say, it's less about the medium

0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:22.440
<v Speaker 5>and challenges in this disrupted media landscape and more about

0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 5>the fact that they had just lost the trust of

0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 5>their audiences and become bory.

0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:27.720
<v Speaker 3>What an absolute shame.

0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Moving on though, because Gretatonberg, the media darling who has

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.960
<v Speaker 2>shifted from climate activism to the plight of the Palestinian well.

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.880
<v Speaker 2>She tried to get into Gaza by sailing there in

0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.320
<v Speaker 2>what has been dubbed the selfie boat, but as expected,

0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.120
<v Speaker 2>she was detained by Israel before she could even get

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:44.840
<v Speaker 2>very close.

0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.840
<v Speaker 11>It's really forces have taken control of a ship carrying

0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:52.760
<v Speaker 11>Gretaitunberg and eleven other pro Palestinian activists. The Madeline, which

0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 11>was carrying a small but symbolic amount of aid for Gaza,

0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 11>was boarded as it tried to break a naval blockade.

0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 11>It's now being towed two in Israeli paus. Videos and

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.599
<v Speaker 11>images were posted by the crew of the madly And

0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 11>as it tried to reach Gaza, including this image showing

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.840
<v Speaker 11>the crew seated on the vessel, all wearing life jackets

0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 11>with their hands in the air, after which the volunteers

0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:19.199
<v Speaker 11>said a white irritant was being sprayed onto the decks.

0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 11>There's a drone.

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:21.839
<v Speaker 6>There's a drone right above.

0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:26.800
<v Speaker 12>We are getting into pret one right now.

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 3>Take cover.

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.240
<v Speaker 2>Now you might have missed it, but did you hear

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the reporter's characterization of Greta's mission a small but symbolic

0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>amount of aid. The media has encouraged, applauded, and glorified

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>this woman to the point where she nearly entered a

0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.840
<v Speaker 2>dangerous war zone. She would have achieved nothing, but to

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 2>some journalists the symbolism would have been worth it. Let's

0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>bring the panel in to discuss symbolism. It's a value judgment.

0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>It's editorializing, right for the reporter just to sit there

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.200
<v Speaker 2>being like, that's symbolic. Well, symbolism has to kind of

0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.840
<v Speaker 2>connote some sort of meaning, and the meaning is positive. Right,

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:11.800
<v Speaker 2>So she's adding that there's this vacuous, self serving selfie

0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.720
<v Speaker 2>boat cruising into a war zone with people that just

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.679
<v Speaker 2>should not be there for their own safety.

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 3>We've got the.

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Media just glorifying it and then labeling it as as symbolic.

0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, Like, first off, she said, now there was a

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 10>white heritinto on the boat. I thought that was Gretaitunberg.

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 10>But aside from that, like, let's not think that at absolutely,

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.120
<v Speaker 10>at absolutely no point did anything happen in this whole

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.920
<v Speaker 10>journey that Gretaitunberg wasn't happy with. She went on in a

0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.480
<v Speaker 10>small boat. She could have got like telling me that

0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 10>she got work around her, she got a free sandwich.

0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.880
<v Speaker 10>You're telling me the network around Greta Tunberg couldn't have

0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:49.520
<v Speaker 10>walked out for a bigger boat that would have been

0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:51.400
<v Speaker 10>able to carry more aid. But you want the smaller

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 10>boat because when the Israeli defense sports get on you, you

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.880
<v Speaker 10>look like the tiny, you know, humble people that getting

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 10>ganged up on. Then you go to being kidnapped and

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.000
<v Speaker 10>you're asked to watch an octobers En video, you don't

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 10>do it, and then they just put you on a

0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:11.280
<v Speaker 10>plane home so easy as you can. Everything happened exactly

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.200
<v Speaker 10>the way gretitombo.

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.040
<v Speaker 2>It's just propagamada. And I saw a lot of journalists

0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 2>repeating the kidnapping line. It's just absurd and they should

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:18.280
<v Speaker 2>have more integrity than that.

0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Darren, final thoughts on this for you agreed.

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 5>I mean, it's really disappointing to see so many parts

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:27.280
<v Speaker 5>of the media take, you know, sort of take that

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 5>self proclaimed activism face value. And I think also what

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 5>they did there just undermined, you know, more grounded diplomatic

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.080
<v Speaker 5>and aid efforts that were actually happening on the ground.

0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 5>And as you pointed out, as well like their refusal

0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 5>to refusal to actually watch that October the eighth documentary

0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.200
<v Speaker 5>really disappointing to hear they you know, they're not journalists,

0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 5>they are activists, but they should make an effort to

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.880
<v Speaker 5>you know, paint the full picture and show both sides

0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:58.960
<v Speaker 5>of this terrible conflict that continues to go on.

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Davidson, James Bolt, thank you so much for joining us.

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 2>We're going to take a quick break, but when we return,

0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.440
<v Speaker 2>how the US media is encouraging rioters to burn down

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 2>their own cities. Welcome back to Stars and Gripes, and

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 2>this is the show where we pick apart the a

0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 2>gender driven media in the US and call out activism

0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.440
<v Speaker 2>masquerading as journalism. Now, after watching the coverage of these

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>violent riots all across America, I've come to one conclusion.

0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 2>You do not hate these activist journalists enough. They have

0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 2>emboldened rioters, provided a moral framework for them to burn

0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 2>down their own city. And it isn't the fault of

0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.080
<v Speaker 2>marauding criminals. It is Donald Trump's fault for daring to

0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 2>deport illegal immigrants and make the mob angry.

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.800
<v Speaker 13>Right now, there are more troops deployed to Los Angeles

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.080
<v Speaker 13>than there are deployed in Syria and Iraq combined.

0:16:58.520 --> 0:16:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Let me just repeat that, because.

0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:01.920
<v Speaker 13>I've been thinking about this all day since one of

0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.399
<v Speaker 13>our amazing producers shared this with me. There are more

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 13>troops deployed to Los Angeles than there are deployed in

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 13>Syria and Iraq combined. And right now, Donald Trump is

0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.760
<v Speaker 13>also doing everything he can to make Los Angeles look

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 13>and feel like a war zone. That's on purpose, that's

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:19.000
<v Speaker 13>what he's trying to do.

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 3>Well.

0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:24.040
<v Speaker 2>That's MSNBC's Jen Saki. She's Joe Biden's former press secretary

0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.600
<v Speaker 2>who has stopped spinning democratic talking points for a living.

0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.920
<v Speaker 2>To spin democratic talking points for a living, Trump.

0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.119
<v Speaker 13>Has deployed four thousand federalized National Guard troops and seven

0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.920
<v Speaker 13>hundred active duty Marines to Los Angeles, and the reality

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:42.280
<v Speaker 13>on the ground is that the protests that Trump sent

0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.760
<v Speaker 13>these thousands of members of the military to deal with

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.560
<v Speaker 13>are both largely peaceful and primarily isolated, with an an

0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.200
<v Speaker 13>incredibly small section of the city. You see that tiny

0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:58.320
<v Speaker 13>speck on the map that is the area we're talking about.

0:17:58.800 --> 0:17:59.960
<v Speaker 3>All of that footage.

0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.520
<v Speaker 2>If you have seen of cars burning down, bricks through windows,

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:07.880
<v Speaker 2>stores looted, and scorched chaos left in the wake of rioters. Well,

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:11.280
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't exist. According to Saki, do not believe your

0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:15.160
<v Speaker 2>lying eyes. Those cars are just peacefully burning. And I'm

0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 2>not sure the point she's trying to make about the

0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.800
<v Speaker 2>curfew zone being small and therefore the riots are not happening.

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.760
<v Speaker 2>The two facts are completely unrelated. A geographic area can

0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.280
<v Speaker 2>be small and still violent, but all of that aside.

0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:30.720
<v Speaker 2>The people who are really to blame for the escalation

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.399
<v Speaker 2>in violence and for the spread of the riots are

0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:36.680
<v Speaker 2>the journalists who offer a moral justification for the action.

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.719
<v Speaker 2>As protests were being planned in Chicago, the local paper

0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.640
<v Speaker 2>was running headlines like this. The journalists and local politicians

0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:49.880
<v Speaker 2>are literally encouraging protests because it serves their joint political goals.

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.520
<v Speaker 2>They don't get to decide that legal immigrants won't be deported.

0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:56.320
<v Speaker 2>There was an election on this and their side lost.

0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 2>They have to accept it, not violently resist.

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 13>NATO press conference, Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson made clear he

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.399
<v Speaker 13>also wasn't going to back down and urge the people

0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.440
<v Speaker 13>of his city to do the same, saying, quote, I'm

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 13>counting on all of Chicago to resist in this moment

0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:17.439
<v Speaker 13>because whatever particular vulnerable group is targeted today, another group

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:18.479
<v Speaker 13>will be next.

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.800
<v Speaker 2>How can any reasonable person hear these media reports, read

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:26.360
<v Speaker 2>these headlines and not draw the conclusion that they want

0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 2>you to protest, they want you to resist, and they

0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.119
<v Speaker 2>want you to cause chaos and damage because it helps

0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:34.880
<v Speaker 2>them and it helps them make the argument that Trump

0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 2>is militant and overreaching in trying to stop the chaos. Well,

0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.960
<v Speaker 2>joining me to discuss now is Sky News contributor Caroline

0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.600
<v Speaker 2>de Russo. Caroline, what do you make of the way

0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that the media has reported on the riots, particularly this

0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.359
<v Speaker 2>phrase resist, the fact that they are pushing out a

0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 2>line that it is not only morally okay, but it's

0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:04.920
<v Speaker 2>the morally correct position to resist, physically resist.

0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.560
<v Speaker 14>If it wasn't so serious, it would be hilarious, Jack, Like,

0:20:09.600 --> 0:20:12.320
<v Speaker 14>it would actually be hilarious. This is the sort of

0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.399
<v Speaker 14>thing you'd actually expect from some kind of you know,

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.280
<v Speaker 14>satire or whatever. But unfortunately, as we've come to know

0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 14>and love with a lot of activist journalism, particularly at

0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.560
<v Speaker 14>the US, it's not satire and they're serious. The simple

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:30.200
<v Speaker 14>fact of the matter is that there are laws around borders,

0:20:30.200 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 14>and there are laws around immigration, and like you said

0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 14>in your editorial, the American people decided, well, we'd like

0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.520
<v Speaker 14>those laws to be laws again, rather than just kind

0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.440
<v Speaker 14>of opaque guidelines that you may opt in or out

0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.919
<v Speaker 14>of enforcing. So essentially, what ICE is doing is just

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:47.640
<v Speaker 14>enforcing the law of the land, the law that as

0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:51.440
<v Speaker 14>a general rule keeps things pretty peaceful. So this whole

0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:58.119
<v Speaker 14>idea that somehow that law shouldn't be enforced, and the

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.480
<v Speaker 14>narrative in particular for me, jack around talking about these

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:07.120
<v Speaker 14>as vulnerable communities. Can we also talk about well, we're

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 14>not just talking about everyday people here. We are talking

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.280
<v Speaker 14>about people who have violated federal immigration law, but then

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.000
<v Speaker 14>also on top of that people that have gone on

0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.719
<v Speaker 14>to commit violent crime and other sorts of offenses. And

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.920
<v Speaker 14>I don't think that a narrative around calling that a

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 14>vulnerable community. Well, it's not accurate and it's also not appropriate.

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.560
<v Speaker 14>But the way that they have pitched this as some

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:35.640
<v Speaker 14>sort of moral argument is in a sense to take

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.200
<v Speaker 14>away from the fact that the protest is against something

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.560
<v Speaker 14>one that is legal, which is the enforcement of the law,

0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.040
<v Speaker 14>but also in a way of trying to bait the

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.840
<v Speaker 14>federal government, and that there has become very obvious and

0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:50.760
<v Speaker 14>the simple fact in so far as California is concerned, Jack,

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.480
<v Speaker 14>is if those protests were peaceful, there wouldn't have been

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.800
<v Speaker 14>an issue. But the California government lost control of its

0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 14>own law and order, and that is simply the only

0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:04.040
<v Speaker 14>reason why the federal government had to take action in

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:09.400
<v Speaker 14>order to protect those federal law enforcement officers. So there's

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:12.439
<v Speaker 14>lots of little slices taken here and there to suit

0:22:12.920 --> 0:22:16.640
<v Speaker 14>a very convenient narrative, But when you actually lay it

0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:19.840
<v Speaker 14>all out on the table, the journalists in this case

0:22:19.880 --> 0:22:21.560
<v Speaker 14>are very severely left wanting.

0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Well said well.

0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>The great thinker of our generation, Kim Kardashian, has weighed

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 2>into the riots. Growing up in La I've seen how

0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 2>deeply immigrants are woven into the fabric of this city.

0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:36.159
<v Speaker 2>They are our neighbors, friends, classmates, coworkers, and family. No

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.199
<v Speaker 2>matter where you fall politically, it's clear that our communities

0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 2>thrive because of the contribution of immigrants. We can't turn

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.840
<v Speaker 2>a blind eye when fear and injustice keep people from

0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:50.639
<v Speaker 2>living their lives freely and safely. Now I actually agree

0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of that, but I think the issue

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.760
<v Speaker 2>is that Kardashian is conflating immigration, which has broad support

0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:00.480
<v Speaker 2>in the community with ilegal immigration, which is not tolerated

0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.520
<v Speaker 2>by any country in the world except, for some reason

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:05.240
<v Speaker 2>pockets in America.

0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:06.120
<v Speaker 3>Now.

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 2>The Assistant Department of Homeland Security Secretary Trisha McLachlin appeared

0:23:10.520 --> 0:23:14.200
<v Speaker 2>to make this point when she responded Kim Kardashian, which

0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:19.560
<v Speaker 2>one of these convicted child molesters, murderers, drug traffickers, and rapists,

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>would you like to stay in the country now, Caroline,

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 2>let's bring you back in because you did sort of.

0:23:24.920 --> 0:23:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Make this point a bit earlier.

0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:31.359
<v Speaker 2>It is more complex than just this perceived war and immigration.

0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.359
<v Speaker 2>That's not what this is about. This is about borders,

0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.520
<v Speaker 2>this is about protecting national security. It's about the will

0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.679
<v Speaker 2>of the people that did vote in this administration to

0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 2>specifically do this, and it was the fact that we

0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:47.959
<v Speaker 2>did have undocumented people that were committing crimes. There are

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>people that had been murdered, there were being children that

0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.679
<v Speaker 2>have been victimized, and we're seeing a conflation between something

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:59.760
<v Speaker 2>which is, you know, completely accepted immigration and we're refusing

0:23:59.800 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 2>to say that the problem is actually the illegal immigration.

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.439
<v Speaker 14>Well, that's exactly the case. And when I read that

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:08.679
<v Speaker 14>to it, I was like the bits that are missing here.

0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:12.680
<v Speaker 14>Actually the really important bits, the really important nuce as

0:24:12.680 --> 0:24:15.439
<v Speaker 14>to why all this is occurring in the first place.

0:24:15.880 --> 0:24:20.159
<v Speaker 14>No one has an issue broadly with the concept of immigration.

0:24:20.280 --> 0:24:22.840
<v Speaker 14>It happens all over the world. Sometimes there's a question

0:24:22.920 --> 0:24:25.480
<v Speaker 14>around is it too much or is it too little?

0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:31.159
<v Speaker 14>That's fine, but it's broadly accepted. And obviously, how do

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.479
<v Speaker 14>you think I got here, Jack? You know, my family

0:24:33.520 --> 0:24:35.760
<v Speaker 14>came here in the nineteen fifties, and all our migrant

0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:40.160
<v Speaker 14>communities they bring something you know, cultural or worker or whatever,

0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:44.440
<v Speaker 14>and it does it adds to our society. The thing

0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.159
<v Speaker 14>that is I think particularly egregious about the comment that

0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:52.360
<v Speaker 14>she makes is the fact that the social issues and

0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:55.480
<v Speaker 14>the violence and the community safety, which is the other

0:24:55.560 --> 0:24:58.920
<v Speaker 14>thing Jack, is not something that she has to live with.

0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:03.800
<v Speaker 14>It's to live in her in her rarefied air, her

0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:06.560
<v Speaker 14>very safety. I'm sure she's got walls and guards and

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:11.479
<v Speaker 14>all those sorts of things that she is not, you know,

0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:18.440
<v Speaker 14>in danger every other day, in danger of the consequences

0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 14>of illegal immigration, you know, like you like you said,

0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.720
<v Speaker 14>the violence, you know, offenses against children, that the drugs,

0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:29.680
<v Speaker 14>all of those sorts of things are not things which

0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:32.440
<v Speaker 14>she has to live with So it's very very cute

0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 14>to sit up there, you know, in your rarefied air,

0:25:38.200 --> 0:25:41.000
<v Speaker 14>to suggest that this actually isn't a problem when you

0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.120
<v Speaker 14>have no idea how the other half live.

0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well said, Well more celebrity reactions. The terminator has

0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:51.520
<v Speaker 2>entered the fray. Arnold Schwarzenegger is not happy. Were journalists

0:25:51.600 --> 0:25:55.520
<v Speaker 2>reporting on these riots and people filming them because well,

0:25:55.600 --> 0:25:56.680
<v Speaker 2>it could hurt tourism.

0:25:56.960 --> 0:26:00.600
<v Speaker 1>They make it out do the war zone, the whole

0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:04.199
<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles, the whole city or the county. And the

0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:08.600
<v Speaker 1>fact of the matter is maybe zero point zero one

0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:12.399
<v Speaker 1>percent of the area of Los Angeles has problems and

0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:14.879
<v Speaker 1>there's a protest. Yeah, And so I think that this

0:26:15.000 --> 0:26:18.000
<v Speaker 1>is important for people to know because I don't want

0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:21.120
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden tourism to suffer in Los Angeles

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:23.760
<v Speaker 1>because what they see in television, because the media sometimes

0:26:23.800 --> 0:26:25.800
<v Speaker 1>shows it as if the whole Los Angeles is a

0:26:25.800 --> 0:26:27.920
<v Speaker 1>big war zone, which isn't really the case.

0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:30.359
<v Speaker 3>None of Los Angeles is or war.

0:26:30.520 --> 0:26:36.119
<v Speaker 1>This wouldn't happen if the politicians would do the work.

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Two things, again, this argument that a geographically small zone

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:43.679
<v Speaker 2>means it can't be violent. Obviously, it's a flawed argument,

0:26:43.720 --> 0:26:46.320
<v Speaker 2>but also his concern is not the fact that the

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:49.480
<v Speaker 2>riots are happening, but rather the people can see that

0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 2>they are happening.

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Now, Caroline, it's it's.

0:26:53.119 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 2>A strange point to make, because surely you would be

0:26:56.480 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 2>saying everyone go home, please go home, don't burn down

0:27:00.200 --> 0:27:02.920
<v Speaker 2>your own community. These are business owners, by the way,

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure some of these business owners are immigrants themselves

0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:08.080
<v Speaker 2>that they're burning down. I'm sure that there's victims of

0:27:08.080 --> 0:27:12.160
<v Speaker 2>these riots that impact that community that everyone is vacuously

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:15.600
<v Speaker 2>pretending to be standing up for. But instead of that,

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:18.600
<v Speaker 2>he's saying, well, no, it's the media's fault for showing

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>you that burning car.

0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:24.320
<v Speaker 14>What do you think, Well, look, I'm not sure that

0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:27.919
<v Speaker 14>looting an apple storey is going to save anyone for deportation.

0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:31.520
<v Speaker 14>So we have seen a fair bit of that sort

0:27:31.520 --> 0:27:34.359
<v Speaker 14>of footage. It is happening, and like you said, whether

0:27:34.400 --> 0:27:38.480
<v Speaker 14>it's a small area or a large area, it is occurring.

0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:41.200
<v Speaker 14>It is the media's job to report it. It's also

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:46.440
<v Speaker 14>the media's job to report accurately about the circumstances of

0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:50.280
<v Speaker 14>that occurring. So I don't have any particular issue if

0:27:50.280 --> 0:27:53.199
<v Speaker 14>the media says something, well, look this is confined to

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:57.880
<v Speaker 14>X part of LA or a certain number of blocks

0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:02.040
<v Speaker 14>in LA, that that just gives context to what is

0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:04.920
<v Speaker 14>actually happening. The bit that I do agree with him

0:28:05.080 --> 0:28:07.480
<v Speaker 14>is is that the politicians have to do the work.

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 14>And the simple fact of the matter is if Biden

0:28:09.800 --> 0:28:12.440
<v Speaker 14>had done his job, and if Newson had a done

0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:15.440
<v Speaker 14>his job, well, then we wouldn't be having this conversation

0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:16.359
<v Speaker 14>in the first place.

0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:19.280
<v Speaker 2>Caroline Russo, thank you so much for your insights. A

0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:21.600
<v Speaker 2>quick break, but when we return, we sit down with

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:28.600
<v Speaker 2>media watchdog columnist Jared Henderson. Welcome back. Joining me now

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:30.400
<v Speaker 2>as he does each and every week, is Sky News

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Australia's media watchdog columnist Jared Henderson.

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:34.239
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for joining us.

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:34.760
<v Speaker 8>Pleasure.

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Now we've got to grab for you to react to

0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:41.240
<v Speaker 2>ABC News Breakfast. How do we think the Bridget Brennan

0:28:41.240 --> 0:28:43.720
<v Speaker 2>responds when somebody is a Trump critic.

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:46.720
<v Speaker 15>All of these represent violations of the rule of law

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 15>and the constitution that take the US down from that

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:55.959
<v Speaker 15>consolidated liberal democracy status to a more middling competitive authoritarian

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 15>regime that's closer to something like Hungary currently.

0:28:59.640 --> 0:29:04.040
<v Speaker 12>Well wow, well yeah, when I was watching it, I

0:29:04.040 --> 0:29:07.600
<v Speaker 12>thought wow myself earlier, Bridge of Brennan had raised the

0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:12.040
<v Speaker 12>issue of fascism, and when mister Grumbash raised this issue

0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:15.440
<v Speaker 12>of authoritarianism, she just goes, wow, just what I wanted

0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:18.120
<v Speaker 12>to hear. Is a bit like the Australian football team

0:29:18.480 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 12>had had kicked a goal or something, Wow, as terrific.

0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:24.240
<v Speaker 3>So it's an infatuation with comments, isn't it.

0:29:24.280 --> 0:29:24.720
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, it's not.

0:29:24.760 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 12>There's no analysis. I mean, you don't say why do

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.800
<v Speaker 12>you say that? Or I think that's a good idea,

0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 12>or perhaps you might consider this year does go wow,

0:29:32.560 --> 0:29:33.760
<v Speaker 12>like you scored a goal.

0:29:33.720 --> 0:29:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Which they do in other cases. We've actually got some

0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:39.920
<v Speaker 2>examples later on, but normally they put qualifications on if

0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:42.200
<v Speaker 2>they don't like it. But if somebody sits there and

0:29:42.240 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>says that Trump is an evil authoritarian dictator, all you

0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 2>can just muster is just a simple wow.

0:29:47.720 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 12>And the other problem is the lack of historical knowledge.

0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:52.120
<v Speaker 12>I mean, anyone who understands anything about Europe in the

0:29:52.120 --> 0:29:54.800
<v Speaker 12>first half of the twentieth century knows what fascism is.

0:29:55.360 --> 0:29:57.880
<v Speaker 8>It was manifest in Italy in Germany.

0:29:58.960 --> 0:30:00.920
<v Speaker 12>But the idea that how however much you like or

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 12>dislike Trump, has nothing to do with fascism, and let's

0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:08.040
<v Speaker 12>fascism just means someone you don't like or don't agree with.

0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 3>That's probably well, we've spoken about this before.

0:30:10.080 --> 0:30:12.760
<v Speaker 2>It's the watering down of the English language as well,

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:15.800
<v Speaker 2>and it trivializes. That's why I hate the far right

0:30:15.920 --> 0:30:19.480
<v Speaker 2>label when it's clearly just somebody who's you know, more

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.600
<v Speaker 2>right wing than there, because right far right has a

0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>connotation of they're basically Nazis, they're genetic supremacists and they

0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 2>want to murder disabled people. Yet we're using that word

0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:34.960
<v Speaker 2>for somebody that maybe has an issue with mass immigration. Yeah, yeah,

0:30:35.040 --> 0:30:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Well moving on Malcolm Turnbull Orcus obviously some issues there.

0:30:40.160 --> 0:30:42.920
<v Speaker 2>But Malcolm Turbull, they've wheeled him out and he's found

0:30:42.920 --> 0:30:44.440
<v Speaker 2>it very easy to get a bit of airtime.

0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:47.080
<v Speaker 3>In fact, you've posted its time to wake up. Who

0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:48.680
<v Speaker 3>needs to wake up? Malcolm Turnbull?

0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:49.640
<v Speaker 9>And why well.

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:51.040
<v Speaker 8>We need to wake up in Australia.

0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:55.760
<v Speaker 12>I mean, frankly, there is a denial of reality in Australia.

0:30:56.240 --> 0:30:58.840
<v Speaker 8>I mean there is a very high.

0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 15>Prospect, very high probabilit prospect that we will end up

0:31:02.040 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 15>with no submarines in this deal.

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 12>Well, Turnbulls sort of got an open door to the ABC.

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.080
<v Speaker 12>Whenever he's got a thought, either they ring him or

0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:15.000
<v Speaker 12>he rings them, and he's in so yesterday on the

0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:18.240
<v Speaker 12>World Today he was talking about this and then he

0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:20.320
<v Speaker 12>got another go on seven thirty last night. And what

0:31:20.400 --> 0:31:23.120
<v Speaker 12>no one really put to him with any great strength

0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 12>is that he's an antagonist. I mean, right, whatever you

0:31:26.040 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 12>say about Orcus the submarine deal, he's an antagonist because

0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 12>he wanted to go with the French deal, where you'd

0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:34.920
<v Speaker 12>move a nuclear submarine to a conventional submarine.

0:31:34.920 --> 0:31:36.360
<v Speaker 8>Many people thought that wouldn't work.

0:31:36.640 --> 0:31:38.720
<v Speaker 12>In any event, the Morrison government, with the approval of

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 12>the Labor Opposition, went for Orcus. Now Malcolm Turnbull's very

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.520
<v Speaker 12>embittered about this and he's always happy to have a

0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:48.520
<v Speaker 12>go at Scott Morrison who was the former Prime minister,

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 12>or of people like Richard Miles, who he calls them.

0:31:51.760 --> 0:31:53.960
<v Speaker 12>Last night on seven thirty, he didn't say the deputy

0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.840
<v Speaker 12>prime Minister and the former Prime ministry. He spoke about

0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:59.920
<v Speaker 12>Richard and Scott and all this sort of demeaning terms,

0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:06.080
<v Speaker 12>and substantially on neither program was he confronted. Now, I

0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:09.080
<v Speaker 12>have no objection to Malcolm Turnbull rocking up to the

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 12>ABC sitting down with someone on the other side of

0:32:12.080 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 12>the table who understands about as much about it as

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:17.200
<v Speaker 12>he does, who can have a discussion.

0:32:17.480 --> 0:32:18.400
<v Speaker 8>But you don't have that.

0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:20.880
<v Speaker 12>You just have the preaching of an antagonist, which is

0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:23.040
<v Speaker 12>what you had last time. So there was Malcolm Turble

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:26.760
<v Speaker 12>some years ago talking about miserable ghosts who spoke about

0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:29.920
<v Speaker 12>things for politics, And there's never been a more ghostly,

0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:32.840
<v Speaker 12>miserable person that I've seen who's an ex politician in

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:33.480
<v Speaker 12>recent years.

0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:35.680
<v Speaker 8>I mean, he really does can't stop.

0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's journalistic slight of hand, and we'll talk about

0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:43.840
<v Speaker 2>very soon about when the ABC does choose to put

0:32:43.880 --> 0:32:49.120
<v Speaker 2>a qualification on. But there is a deliberate choice to

0:32:49.240 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 2>get somebody on who's anti orchus three times, as you've

0:32:51.840 --> 0:32:55.000
<v Speaker 2>pointed out, for that program, and they're not offer the

0:32:55.040 --> 0:32:58.360
<v Speaker 2>context about why maybe politically they don't like the ideas,

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 2>So does that color the langue, which does that add

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 2>any nuance? And nuance only really seems appropriate when it's

0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:06.160
<v Speaker 2>a conservative viewpoint that they don't like.

0:33:06.280 --> 0:33:07.400
<v Speaker 8>Yes, I don't like it.

0:33:07.520 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 12>I mean essentially, well, it was embraced by the Labor Party,

0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:12.400
<v Speaker 12>but I mean it's Richard.

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:14.320
<v Speaker 8>Miles from the labor right. They don't like the labor right.

0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:16.680
<v Speaker 12>I mean, they're like the airBC people like Degreenes, they

0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:18.080
<v Speaker 12>like the tills, they.

0:33:18.000 --> 0:33:19.600
<v Speaker 8>Love the tills, left the tills.

0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:21.320
<v Speaker 12>They like the labor left, but they don't like the

0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:23.959
<v Speaker 12>labor right, and they don't like the Coalition obviously. So

0:33:24.000 --> 0:33:27.160
<v Speaker 12>when they criticize the Labor Party, if they do, it's

0:33:27.160 --> 0:33:29.640
<v Speaker 12>always from the left perspective, and you're seeing it here.

0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, Sally Sarup, she's interviewed Dennis Ross, who's the former

0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:38.880
<v Speaker 2>US diplomatic has worked for president's Bush, Clinton Obama, very experienced.

0:33:39.320 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Let's have a listen to see how this interview is handled.

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 16>But even if there is disruption and theft by Hamas,

0:33:46.240 --> 0:33:48.080
<v Speaker 16>should the aid be pushed through anyway?

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 7>I have a problem with providing a that allows Hamas

0:33:51.680 --> 0:33:55.200
<v Speaker 7>to maintain its control because in maintaining its control, the

0:33:55.240 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 7>suffering of Palestinians is guaranteed.

0:33:58.200 --> 0:33:59.920
<v Speaker 16>Dennis Ross will need to leave it there. Thank you

0:33:59.920 --> 0:34:01.400
<v Speaker 16>for your time this morning on breakfast.

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:02.880
<v Speaker 8>Sure, glad to do it.

0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:03.320
<v Speaker 5>By way.

0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:07.000
<v Speaker 16>It's Dennis Ross, their former US peace negotiator and Special

0:34:07.040 --> 0:34:11.680
<v Speaker 16>Middle East Coordinator under Presidents Bush, Clinton and Obama, and

0:34:11.760 --> 0:34:14.879
<v Speaker 16>last month the United Nations World Food Program said there

0:34:14.960 --> 0:34:18.720
<v Speaker 16>was no evidence that Hamas was stealing food aid in Gaza.

0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:24.880
<v Speaker 2>It's extraordinary. It's to say to the audience, Hey, that

0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:27.480
<v Speaker 2>guest who we just listened to, they're a liar and

0:34:27.680 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 2>there is no evidence for what they were saying.

0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:31.319
<v Speaker 3>You just made it up.

0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:34.240
<v Speaker 2>Why would you not put the proposition to the expert

0:34:34.320 --> 0:34:38.120
<v Speaker 2>you're interviewing. Why cut off the interview, wait a few

0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:40.239
<v Speaker 2>seconds and then say what they just said is well,

0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:40.680
<v Speaker 2>this was a.

0:34:40.760 --> 0:34:42.960
<v Speaker 8>Very rare experience.

0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:45.360
<v Speaker 12>I mean, Dennis Ross is a very well regarded for

0:34:45.800 --> 0:34:48.960
<v Speaker 12>American diploma, former American diplomat, and here you had a

0:34:49.040 --> 0:34:52.840
<v Speaker 12>very senior person criticizing Hamas. This is absolutely rare on

0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:57.360
<v Speaker 12>the ABC and also criticizing Hamas is stopping food getting

0:34:57.520 --> 0:35:00.920
<v Speaker 12>and food and medicine getting to Pellas, Indians and Gaza,

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:03.200
<v Speaker 12>which they are doing, which they are doing. And when

0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:05.560
<v Speaker 12>Dennis Ross says that, and he knows what he's talking about,

0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:08.200
<v Speaker 12>you don't really challenge him on it. You just sort

0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:09.799
<v Speaker 12>of wait for him to go away, and then you

0:35:09.800 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 12>come back and say, hang on a minute, the un

0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:16.319
<v Speaker 12>which he already criticized, or you an organization says you're

0:35:16.360 --> 0:35:17.879
<v Speaker 12>not right, and so.

0:35:17.960 --> 0:35:19.279
<v Speaker 3>He could have account of you.

0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:21.120
<v Speaker 2>He could say there is an issue with the with

0:35:21.160 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 2>the with with that report, there is an issue with

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that viewpoint.

0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 12>He could have but he wasn't given the opportunity. No,

0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:28.680
<v Speaker 12>he did say some of the things earlier, and so

0:35:28.760 --> 0:35:32.840
<v Speaker 12>on my Media Watchdog blog coming out soon putting a

0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 12>full transcript of the whole interview and people can read

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:38.279
<v Speaker 12>and form their own conclusions. Was a very good analysis

0:35:38.320 --> 0:35:42.160
<v Speaker 12>by mister Ross. And then he just gets wiped and

0:35:42.200 --> 0:35:46.120
<v Speaker 12>a bit overwhelmingly. You have you have pro Hamas or

0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:48.960
<v Speaker 12>pro Palestinian views on the ABC. You get someone who's

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:53.160
<v Speaker 12>intelligent and criticism I mean of Hamas and that's how

0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:54.080
<v Speaker 12>he's treated well.

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:55.520
<v Speaker 2>It is a brilliant column you do for us in

0:35:55.560 --> 0:35:58.280
<v Speaker 2>every single week on Sky News. Talking to au Jared Henderson,

0:35:58.280 --> 0:36:00.320
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for joining us. That's all the

0:36:00.320 --> 0:36:01.879
<v Speaker 2>time we have for tonight, but we will be back

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:04.880
<v Speaker 2>the same time next week and up next is Newsnight.