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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Fitzi and Whipper podcast.

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Speaker 2: Front page of the Daily Telegraph today Chris Dawson's on

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Speaker 2: the front of it with the word murderer five hours.

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Speaker 2: It took Justice Ian Harrison to come down with this

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Speaker 2: decision Christopher.

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Speaker 1: Michael Dawson on the charge that on are about eight

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Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty two at Bayview or elsewhere in the

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Speaker 1: state of New South Quales, you did murder Lynnette Dawson.

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Speaker 1: I find you guilty. Message down mister Dawson will be

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Speaker 1: necessary for you to be taken into custody.

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Speaker 2: It is gripped the nation this case and the man

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Speaker 2: that kicked it off. Well, the podcast came out in

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Speaker 2: twenty eight am. But I dare say I'd love to

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Speaker 2: know when he started working on this case was the

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Speaker 2: man from the Australian Headley Thomas. He joins us now,

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Speaker 2: welcome Headley, Good morning guys.

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Speaker 3: Hotly, I suppose congratulations is in order. I mean, you

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Speaker 3: resurface this case to an extent, and yesterday, what I'd

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Speaker 3: love to know going into that final day yesterday, what

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Speaker 3: did you think? What did you think the outcome would be?

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Speaker 4: Man? I thought that he should be found guilty, and

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Speaker 4: I believe that it was more likely than not that

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Speaker 4: he would be, but we of course could not know.

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Speaker 4: And it was incredibly nerve wracking waiting for that that audio,

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Speaker 4: that those words that the judge you just played, because

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Speaker 4: this had been forty years for Lynn Dawson's family, and

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Speaker 4: some thirty years since they first strongly suspected, in fact

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Speaker 4: knew in their hearts that he had killed Lynn. But

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Speaker 4: over many years they just failed to get justice.

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Speaker 2: It started at ten o'clock yesterday. Everyone thought we were

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Speaker 2: going to hear the decision quite quickly. It went for

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Speaker 2: five hours hitdling. Now, is the reason why Justice Ian

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Speaker 2: Harrison did that? Is that did he go into so

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Speaker 2: much detailed to avoid the risk of an appeal? Is

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Speaker 2: that why when for so long?

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Speaker 4: Look, I think every judge wants to avoid having an

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Speaker 4: appeal over to the decision. But the judge was very

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Speaker 4: thoughtful and measured and wanted to convey as much as

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Speaker 4: he possibly could in his reasoning. And there'll be so

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Speaker 4: much more, no doubt, in his written reasons, which he'll

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Speaker 4: publish possibly later this week. We thought, after a perhaps

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Speaker 4: first half hour, that it was all over for Chris,

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Speaker 4: that he was doomed, and that's because the judge had

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Speaker 4: already made a finding that Chris d Austin had lied

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Speaker 4: about the so called phone calls that Lynn made about

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Speaker 4: having spoken to her and her saying she needed more

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Speaker 4: time away and that she had been up the Central

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Speaker 4: Coach for friends. The judge said that that was all

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Speaker 4: part of a lying scheme. So we believed really early

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Speaker 4: in the piece yesterday that it was finished. But then

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Speaker 4: the judge started going through all these other points of

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Speaker 4: matters that were in Chris's favor, and we're like, well, okay,

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Speaker 4: which way is this going? Yeah, apostile, this could actually

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Speaker 4: turn around, but logically it couldn't. However, you just didn't

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Speaker 4: know until the hammer finally fell.

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Speaker 3: But Chrys Dawson can now appeal this, can he?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, every convicted person has a right to appeal,

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Speaker 4: but they're going to have good appeal points sure, and

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Speaker 4: his lawyers will no doubt go over this judgment with

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Speaker 4: a fine turn comb. In the end, the judge really

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Speaker 4: relied on a number of documents and also answers that

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Speaker 4: Chris Dawson had given himself that were part of the

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Speaker 4: evidence in the murder trial. His interview with the police

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Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety one, a videotape interview that was integral

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Speaker 4: as well as his own handwritten statements and so on

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Speaker 4: about what had happened to them. See Chris's lies through

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Speaker 4: these statements were the Joe said, born of a consciousness

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Speaker 4: of his own guilt, and they were lives to cover

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Speaker 4: up what had happened and to distance himself from his

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Speaker 4: former students, the babysitter, the woman who he had become

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Speaker 4: utterly infatuated with.

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Speaker 2: What a story, Edley, Can I just say congratulations mate?

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Speaker 2: As a journalist, I mean there must be so many

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Speaker 2: of these cases in Australia, not just in Australia, but

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Speaker 2: around the world. When you don't have a body, when

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Speaker 2: you don't have a murder weapon, for you to start

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Speaker 2: this journey and to where it ended up last night,

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Speaker 2: I mean there must be a moment where you reflected

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Speaker 2: yesterday and said, this is why I got into this industry,

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Speaker 2: and this is what you know. You're chasing facts, you're

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Speaker 2: chasing the truth. You want the truth to come out

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Speaker 2: and finally justice has been served. Was there a moment

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Speaker 2: last night, Headley where you got to sit down and

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Speaker 2: have a drink with the family and there was has

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Speaker 2: it hit you yet?

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Speaker 4: Yes. We sat down with Greg and that's Lynn's brother,

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Speaker 4: and Marylyn and their children and other members of the

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Speaker 4: family and Damian Loun that detected to kick it off,

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Speaker 4: and I feel enormously privileged to have had this opportunity

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Speaker 4: to investigate the case and to try to right or wrong.

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Speaker 4: It was something that I understood was wrong way back

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Speaker 4: in two thousand and one. That's when I first reported

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Speaker 4: on this case. It had just come through the first

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Speaker 4: inquest and it was so obviously alarming. The evidence was compelling,

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Speaker 4: and you just reading it as I did back then

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Speaker 4: reading the files in the Northern Beach's Police station, could

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Speaker 4: see patterns of conduct that were highly suspicious. To unpack

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Speaker 4: it in a podcast with a huge amount of detail

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Speaker 4: over many weeks, you know, I think that long form

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Speaker 4: of journalism really makes an enormous difference. And being able,

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Speaker 4: you know, I'm fifty five, being able to go from

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Speaker 4: being a newspaper a journal and starting the Avenue where

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Speaker 4: they were just phasing out typewriters, and now getting behind

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Speaker 4: a microphone and understanding a little bit about audio and

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Speaker 4: just being able to convey a story as bast and

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Speaker 4: as important as this one to millions of people around

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Speaker 4: the world. Yeah, it's a huge privilege and I feel

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Speaker 4: really grateful.

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Speaker 2: You've probably been asked this. But now that he's been

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Speaker 2: found guilty, let's say, you know he's still guilty. After

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Speaker 2: the appeal, he goes to jail. I would dare say

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Speaker 2: he serves the rest of his life out in jail.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there'll ever be a moment? And I mean,

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Speaker 2: you haven't got much from Chris Dawson or the Dawson

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Speaker 2: twins or anyone like that, but you've got to know

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Speaker 2: the man through other people. Do you reckon there will

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Speaker 2: ever be a time that he will tell us where

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Speaker 2: that body is.

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Speaker 4: I can only hope for family's sake, that's what they

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Speaker 4: want now, isn't it. Yeah, but if Chris Dawson does

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Speaker 4: the sums and works out how long he might live,

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Speaker 4: he may see some upside in getting parole in return

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Speaker 4: for showing authorities where the remains are. I think it'll

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Speaker 4: be transactional if he does it. I doubt he'll do

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Speaker 4: it out of any goodwill or sense of remorse, because

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Speaker 4: he's probably going to keep denying he did this.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and just off topic, with. I mean, there was

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Speaker 2: so much around the Teacher's Pet, there was talk of

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Speaker 2: a movie. Has anyone bought those rights? Headley? And this

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Speaker 2: chapter Now now that it's closed and there is a

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Speaker 2: guilty plea, I would dare say this movie is even

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Speaker 2: bigger now who owns the right to that? And will

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Speaker 2: will we see that come to the screen?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Look, I think that there will be a green

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Speaker 4: version of the Teacher's Pet with the headlight.

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Speaker 2: Hemsworth and Jackman wanted to get Headley as.

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Speaker 4: I understand that. Yeah, there was definitely that kind of interest.

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Speaker 3: Who's going to play you? Headley? There's the big question,

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Speaker 3: Eric Banner.

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Speaker 4: I met jack He's such a good guy, Hugh Jackman,

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Speaker 4: He's about one hundred pounds than.

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Speaker 3: We'd love to see that come to life, mate, because

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Speaker 3: we have been absolutely blown away by not only the

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Speaker 3: case but the way it's been portrayed by yourself. So

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Speaker 3: congratulations again.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate you guys, And for more of Headley

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Speaker 2: Thomas's take on that, you can go to the Teachers

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Speaker 2: Trial dot com dot au.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks mate

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Speaker 3: Take care you're listening to the Fits and Whipper podcast