Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
Speaker 1: It's Thursday, October tenth. The Powerful Education Union wants members
Speaker 1: to boycott teaching reforms, including phonics and explicit instruction on
Speaker 1: topics like maths and reading. That's because it says the
Speaker 1: federal government's sixteen billion dollar funding offer to the States
Speaker 1: isn't enough. Former Labor Senator Fatima Payman, who left the
Speaker 1: party after objecting to its stance on Gaza, has launched
Speaker 1: her own party, Australia's Voice. It has no policies yet,
Speaker 1: but some Indigenous leaders are objecting to her use of
Speaker 1: the word voice as they mark the anniversary of the
Speaker 1: Voice to Parliament referendum defeat. Judges should be trauma informed
Speaker 1: when dealing with Indigenous and African offenders and taken to
Speaker 1: account the effects of colonialism, slavery and racism. That's just
Speaker 1: part of a new guidebook to help judges become more
Speaker 1: like therapists. It's been distributed to judicial officers today. What
Speaker 1: therapeutic jurisprudence is all about. Congratulations, you've been appointed a judge. Now,
Speaker 1: which kind of judge are you going to be?
Speaker 2: The hanging judge, your persistent dedication to a life of
Speaker 2: chrime is an abomination before God and Man, and therefore
Speaker 2: sentence you to hang by the neck until you're dead.
Speaker 2: And may the Lord have mercy on your soul.
Speaker 1: The bring your toothbrush, judge.
Speaker 3: The word remorse a deep regret coming from a sense
Speaker 3: of guilt for past wrongs.
Speaker 1: That's not you, the judge, Judy, just a second.
Speaker 4: I ask questions, You answer the questions.
Speaker 1: Do you understand that amar Australian judges have a new option,
Speaker 1: the therapy judge Therapeutic Jurisprudence or TJ. According to a
Speaker 1: new guide distributed to judges published by the New South
Speaker 1: Wales Judicial Commission. This is what that means.
Speaker 4: TJ emphasizes processes that encourage self determination for offenders to
Speaker 4: avoid increasing resistance and potential resentment of the judicial process.
Speaker 4: Judicial officers are expected to have a positive impact on
Speaker 4: the people appearing before them and their communities, with the
Speaker 4: court as a possible facilitator of healing.
Speaker 3: So it was written by a researcher. She's a lawyer
Speaker 3: and a psychologist. Her name is Ronda Waterworth and it
Speaker 3: was backed by the New South Wales Judicial watchdog, the
Speaker 3: Judicial Commission, and further endorsed by the Australasian Institute of
Speaker 3: Judicial Administration, which is the peak judges body in Australia.
Speaker 1: Ellie Dudley is the Australian's Legal affairs correspond and she's
Speaker 1: breaking this story today. The guide explicitly states its techniques
Speaker 1: are not designed for use in more serious criminal matters
Speaker 1: and are not designed to excuse offender behavior nor argue
Speaker 1: for judicial leniency.
Speaker 4: Therapeutic jurisprudence and solution focused judging did not promote leniency. Indeed,
Speaker 4: offenders being held to account and receiving a just outcome,
Speaker 4: including imprisonment when warranted, is therapeutic in itself because it
Speaker 4: tells offenders that actions have consequences.
Speaker 1: In fact, the Guide suggests sending someone to jail can
Speaker 1: actually be useful.
Speaker 4: A sentence for incarceration can be used to stabilize a
Speaker 4: person's life, their mental state, to give a period of
Speaker 4: space and time to reorganize their entourage, and to give
Speaker 4: the defendant time to obtain support in a stable environment.
Speaker 1: One of the newer ideas coming through the law is
Speaker 1: that judges are themselves subject to wars. What's called vicarious trauma.
Speaker 1: That is distress and upset caused by being exposed to
Speaker 1: the details of offending and suffering. That, as well as
Speaker 1: the obvious stress of such big jobs, can lead to
Speaker 1: shortness of temper. Judges are, of course human, but sadly
Speaker 1: Australian courts are not televised, so we rarely get to
Speaker 1: share with you all the little moments of snappy, cranky
Speaker 1: judges we see from the press benchers. There are some exceptions,
Speaker 1: like this twenty twenty SmackDown by Victorian judge Elizabeth Gainer.
Speaker 3: Let me tell you, gentlemen, what this court has seen
Speaker 3: time after time with young men like you.
Speaker 4: You get out of jail.
Speaker 3: And you're in the big wide world. You've never had
Speaker 3: a job, never had a stable relationship, no relationships with
Speaker 3: the children that you have. You'll end up drug rattled,
Speaker 3: lonely old men.
Speaker 1: American courts, however, are a cornucopia of judges losing it
Speaker 1: on TV. I agree with the family. I hope you
Speaker 1: die in prison as well.
Speaker 3: Know if this was adapt to Patty State, you begin
Speaker 3: to chair.
Speaker 1: This court is so sick and tired of seeing adult
Speaker 1: room and abused children. There's a big rebalancing happening across
Speaker 1: the law, isn't there in the way that judges are considered.
Speaker 1: Now every few months I read a report about a
Speaker 1: senior judge talking to other judges about how to manage
Speaker 1: the workload, to manage the stress, and acknowledgment that it's
Speaker 1: pretty tough work at times.
Speaker 3: The New South Wales Judicial Commission released a report recently
Speaker 3: showing that an overwhelming amount of judges need to be
Speaker 3: tested for PTSD because the work that they're dealing with
Speaker 3: every single day is so incredibly traumatic. And what we
Speaker 3: see all through this report is an acknowledgment that the
Speaker 3: things that go on in court are incredibly traumatic, and
Speaker 3: also the fact that offenders all victims as well, bring
Speaker 3: really complex backgrounds and perhaps intergenerational trauma of vicarious trauma
Speaker 3: or whatever it is to court and they need to
Speaker 3: be treated in certain ways.
Speaker 1: That's the very serious and earnest part of this report.
Speaker 1: It is also pretty funny.
Speaker 4: There are parts of it that seem to be a
Speaker 4: little bit peculiar.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the butterfly technique.
Speaker 3: So the butterfly technique is something that is included in
Speaker 3: the report with graphics just in case you don't understand
Speaker 3: it fully where an offender, perhaps if they're experiencing stress
Speaker 3: at the time, crosses their arms across their chest and
Speaker 3: pats on their shoulders. There's also parts of the report
Speaker 3: that talk about the wellbeing of judges, so things like
Speaker 3: going for long walks, exercising more, having special herbal teas,
Speaker 3: that sort of thing in order to calm themselves down
Speaker 3: or to help resolve any vicarious trauma that they may
Speaker 3: experience based off of their experience in the courtroom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a suggestion that judges might like an alkaline
Speaker 1: drink such as apple side of vinegar we're mixed with
Speaker 1: water to make themselves feel better, essential oils to help
Speaker 1: with alertness, calming music in the waiting room, and having
Speaker 1: a fiddle toy available for those speaking. This is the
Speaker 1: point where this tips over into being ridiculous, isn't it.
Speaker 3: I couldn't possibly say, but what I will say is
Speaker 3: that I have not yet seen any judges implement these
Speaker 3: sort of techniques in court, you know, from your Justice
Speaker 3: Michael Lees to your Chief Justice Stephen Gegler, and it
Speaker 3: would be very interesting if they did. In the middle
Speaker 3: of a chorum. It's bringing these therapeutic techniques into the courtroom,
Speaker 3: which does seem to be an incredibly twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: attitude and not something we would have seen a decade ago.
Speaker 1: Indigenous Australians are over represented in the justice system and
Speaker 1: in prisons, of course, and every judge in Australia who
Speaker 1: handles criminal matters is trained in dealing with Indigenous people
Speaker 1: in their particular sensitivities. The report suggests, though, that this
Speaker 1: is not just about acknowledging that an offender before the
Speaker 1: court might have had a difficult childhood, might have substance
Speaker 1: abuse problems, might be the victim of violence themselves, but
Speaker 1: it's also going back to what their family and in
Speaker 1: fact their entire culture might have.
Speaker 3: Experienced, particularly when it comes to Aboriginal defendants. There's a
Speaker 3: massive chunk of the report dedicated to the Stolen Generation
Speaker 3: when the impact that could have on Indigenous defendants. I
Speaker 3: also talks about settling colonialism and the impact that could
Speaker 3: have Indigenous defendants and the way that has been passed
Speaker 3: down from generation to generation amongst Aboriginal communities.
Speaker 1: Coming up, Why Islam is singled out as a helpful
Speaker 1: tool for judges. Ellie Dudley's coverage of legal affairs is unrivaled.
Speaker 1: If you're a judge or a lawyer, you should be
Speaker 1: subscribing to The Australian for her exclusives and all our
Speaker 1: analysis and commentary on matters of the law. Check us
Speaker 1: out at the Australian dot com dot au. When sentencing
Speaker 1: Muslim offenders, the guide says judges should be mindful of
Speaker 1: intergenerational trauma experienced by the family members of refugees who
Speaker 1: fled persecution experienced torture. But the report says there are
Speaker 1: upsides too.
Speaker 4: Muslim culture provides several elements that can strongly enhance resiliency
Speaker 4: in young offenders, offering a framework that promotes psychological well being,
Speaker 4: moral development and social support.
Speaker 1: There's a broad reference to Asian defendants. What does it
Speaker 1: say about them?
Speaker 3: It talks about Asian shame, So this idea that Asian
Speaker 3: defendants could will heavily fear embarrassment and that could impact
Speaker 3: the way that they appear in court. It says that
Speaker 3: this may make it difficult for an offender to participate
Speaker 3: fully because they could become emotionally overwhelmed due to this embarrassment.
Speaker 1: In terms of African defendants, Elie there's of course an
Speaker 1: acknowledgment that Africa is a pretty big place and there
Speaker 1: are a huge number of different, very different cultures from
Speaker 1: that continent, some of whom have made their way to
Speaker 1: Australia in the form of local communities. Why should judges,
Speaker 1: according to this report, have a particular sensitivity around Africa defendants.
Speaker 3: It goes back to that thing that we're talking about
Speaker 3: intergenerational trauma. So it makes reference to the slave trade
Speaker 3: when the impact that the slave trade could have on
Speaker 3: African defendants, it talks about that being a massive potential sensitivity,
Speaker 3: and similarly, the ongoing impacts of colonization could have an
Speaker 3: impact on African defendants. But at the same time, when
Speaker 3: they've got a sensitivity, they also have a strength, so
Speaker 3: they say that strong family bonds within African communities could
Speaker 3: act as a potential strength for an African defendant.
Speaker 1: You're in court rooms with judges all the time, it's
Speaker 1: easy to make jokes about the kind of woke instruction
Speaker 1: that they're getting from the Juditial Commission, for example, in
Speaker 1: this instance, it's your sense that by and large they
Speaker 1: are sensible, sober decision makers, or do you see judges
Speaker 1: straying away from black letter law.
Speaker 3: I think it's divided. So I think that while you
Speaker 3: would have some judges who are straying into judicial activism
Speaker 3: and more interested in quite progressive of the law, I
Speaker 3: think that you have a very strong basi of a
Speaker 3: judiciary that is very keen on not straying and ultimately
Speaker 3: achieving justice and achieving that in a very straight and
Speaker 3: narrow way.
Speaker 1: Ellie Dudley is The Australian's Legal affairs correspondent. Anthony Albanezi
Speaker 1: will meet Chinese Premier Lie Chung at the Asian Summit
Speaker 1: in Vientian Today. The PM says he'll be working on
Speaker 1: stabilizing relations with China amid boiling tensions over the South
Speaker 1: China Sea. You can read all a live reporting from
Speaker 1: Asian Today at the Australian dot com dot a U