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Speaker 1: Him, I boris and this is straight talk. Daniel Murky

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Speaker 1: here you going, mate, welcome, Thank you for having me on.

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Speaker 2: It's such an honor.

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Speaker 1: That's cool, It's very cool. I don't know any podcasts

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Speaker 1: have actually have gone around interviewing I certainly haven't state treasurers.

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Speaker 1: I've definitely interviewed federal treasurers, mostly in the liberal camp,

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Speaker 1: in fact, one hundred percent of the liberal camp. But

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Speaker 1: I hopefully I'll get no. I have had Jim on here.

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Speaker 1: Jim has been here. I should say Jim was there

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Speaker 1: during the election period and it was and it was

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Speaker 1: very good. It was very interesting. I think it's important

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Speaker 1: for asking your South Welshman and the rest of the

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Speaker 1: country for that matter, who listened to this, to know

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Speaker 1: a little bit about who's running the money part of

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Speaker 1: the business. Who's our CFO. Yeah, and that's you. That

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Speaker 1: is for me for me, Yeah, totally you. And you've

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Speaker 1: just launched a budget, which just talk about the budget shortly,

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Speaker 1: but let's do something you're probably not used to us.

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Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about who Daniel Murky is. So

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Speaker 1: your surname Murky, Mooky, Mooky, muki as in cookie mkias

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Speaker 1: in cookie. So you know, I've already you know, I

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Speaker 1: had him here two weeks ago, Chris Joy giving you

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Speaker 1: the biggest rap on the planet. So that's a lot

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Speaker 1: to live up to, Chris A very hard actually, So

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Speaker 1: you've got a lot to live a lot to live

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Speaker 1: up to. What's your what's the derivation of the name Muki.

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Speaker 3: So, Muki is a Punjabi surname, and Punjabi is the

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Speaker 3: north of India and Pakistan is the province that sits

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Speaker 3: between the two. It's one of the two provinces that

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Speaker 3: sits between the two. And so my family historically on

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Speaker 3: my father's side are from what's now Pakistan. But when

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Speaker 3: India and Pakistan were partitioned, my family ended up obviously

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Speaker 3: in an Indian part.

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Speaker 1: So that was three forty seven, Yeah, that was forty seven. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because India was a big country, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India.

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Speaker 2: Was all subcontinent too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what we now call the subcontinent was at that

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Speaker 3: point called India and obviously under British rule. My father

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Speaker 3: was born in Lahore, which is the and he was

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Speaker 3: born four years prior to partition, and so when the

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Speaker 3: country was then split, he had to move across as

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Speaker 3: a refugee a bit before that, and same with my

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Speaker 3: mom's side. My mom's side was born and what's now

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Speaker 3: the Pakistani side of the Punjab and ended up in India,

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Speaker 3: but as well, so my muki literally translates to village spokesperson,

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Speaker 3: which for a politician is a good good surname to have.

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Speaker 1: What was Was he a politician?

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Speaker 2: He was not? He wasn't.

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Speaker 3: He was a geologist. He came out here as a geologist.

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Speaker 3: But marquis he was the first of his of his

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Speaker 3: generation to get educated. And my grandfather was the third

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Speaker 3: of five brothers and only his father could only afford

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Speaker 3: to educate the first two, not third. So my grandfather

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Speaker 3: worked as a stenographer and he worked very hard. But

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Speaker 3: then my father, is the eldest of the children, got

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Speaker 3: to go to university, and then the rest of them

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Speaker 3: got to go.

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Speaker 2: To university in India.

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Speaker 3: In India, and so my father comes, he trains as

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Speaker 3: a geologist and he gets recruited to come work on

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Speaker 3: the Roxby downs Uranian project in the early seventies, and

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Speaker 3: he's one of the first people who benefits from the

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Speaker 3: final end of the Wide Australia policy in which Australia

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Speaker 3: started to welcome people more and more from the subcontinent

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Speaker 3: and the rest of the world. So he gets he

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Speaker 3: swaps populated North India in the seventies for out back

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Speaker 3: South Australia as a geologist, and then he makes his

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Speaker 3: way over to Sydney as well. And then you would

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Speaker 3: like this his first job. He ends up being a

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Speaker 3: computer program and then a real estate agent. Then he

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Speaker 3: gets into real estate.

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Speaker 1: So he gave geology away.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, I guess from his perspective, rocks, I guess I

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Speaker 3: have some fascination. But he decided that he wanted to

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Speaker 3: move into a different career and he ends up being

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Speaker 3: a yeah effectively, I mean back then, bear in mind,

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Speaker 3: the mining industry wasn't as wealthy as perhaps it could

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Speaker 3: be it is this day. But he ends up becoming

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Speaker 3: a computer programmer and then he goes into a real

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Speaker 3: estate agent and then he opens up a small business.

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Speaker 3: But he passed away when I was very young. So

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Speaker 3: he passed away when I was five, Oh wow, And

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Speaker 3: so I didn't really get to know him that well.

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Speaker 3: But he's the reason why we end end up in Sydney.

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Speaker 2: My mother.

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Speaker 3: They get married in seventy five and she comes out

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Speaker 3: here too.

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Speaker 1: She's also from Indian.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, ye, she's from the North India as well. And

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Speaker 3: so I'm raised by my widowed mother. I'm the youngest

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Speaker 3: of three children and we grew up in the western

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Speaker 3: suburbs of Sydney.

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Speaker 1: We're about in Marylands.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Marylands boy.

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Speaker 3: I was born in Blacktown, grew up in Maryland's very

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Speaker 3: close to Paramatta and that's that's home for me as

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Speaker 3: a kid. And my family was there for forty years.

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Speaker 1: And did you go to the local state school? I did?

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Speaker 2: I did.

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Speaker 1: I went by performing you know whatever kids are you saying.

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Speaker 3: Well, I went to all of them actually, like I

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Speaker 3: got a I went to Hilltop Rode Public School, which

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Speaker 3: was a great public school, particularly at that age, particularly

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Speaker 3: after my father.

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Speaker 2: Died, very supportive public school as well.

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Speaker 3: And then I went to a comprehensive high school in

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Speaker 3: the western suburbs, Model Farms High School for four years,

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Speaker 3: and then in new school.

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Speaker 2: What is that?

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Speaker 1: What is a comprehensive high school?

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Speaker 3: Meaning just your local school right like your local public

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Speaker 3: high school as well. And then I got into a

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Speaker 3: selective school in year eleven and twelve, and then I

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Speaker 3: went to Girroene Selective School for people in Sydney who

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Speaker 3: would know it's in Pendle Hill out in the west

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Speaker 3: as well.

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Speaker 1: And then when you were the youngest in your family,

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Speaker 1: you're the youngest childre, I'm the youngest of three brothers

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Speaker 1: and sisters. Brother and a sister. Yeah, like a perfect family. Brothers, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I never managed it. I owned with four boys. And

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Speaker 1: in terms of your mum, did she remarry or was

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Speaker 1: just continue on as she's been? Yeah, and it must

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Speaker 1: have been a tough.

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Speaker 3: Well, she's an amazing woman. So she finds herself widowed

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Speaker 3: on the other side of the world with three young kids.

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Speaker 3: I was five, my sister was six, my brother was eleven.

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Speaker 1: And her parents, No, the rest of the family's back still.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all there. My grandfather came out for a year.

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Speaker 3: My uncle, my father's uncle brother is in Sydney to

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Speaker 3: the only other family we have here as well. But no,

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Speaker 3: she was all by herself and she went back to work.

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Speaker 3: She went to work four weeks after my father passed

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Speaker 3: and spent her quest of her career as an accounts clerk.

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Speaker 3: She was trained as a child psychologist, but her qualifications

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Speaker 3: weren't recognized here, so she ends up as an account clerk.

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Speaker 3: She goes back to Taife, she retrains, she gets a

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Speaker 3: job she working in a manufacturing plant doing an account's

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Speaker 3: department in Auburn. Then gets another job at Borrel and

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Speaker 3: she's doing accounts for Borrow when she which is where

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Speaker 3: she stayed until she retired.

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Speaker 1: His mom still light.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's an amazing and very

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Speaker 2: resilient woman.

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Speaker 3: And I have to say, like, I mean, she put

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Speaker 3: through three kids through schooling.

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Speaker 2: We all got to go to university.

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Speaker 3: My brother is an advanced programmer in quite a few

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Speaker 3: complex I T languages. My sister's a lawyer. I'm obviously

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Speaker 3: the treasurer of the state as well. We learned how

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Speaker 3: work ethic from our mum. And I got to say, Mark,

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Speaker 3: it's a very common story for immigrants. You learn the

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Speaker 3: ethic and you learn and what's great about this country

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Speaker 3: is is it people don't really care where you come from,

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Speaker 3: if they care about what you do and what you

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Speaker 3: can do and what you have to offer.

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Speaker 1: And how you go about it, yeah, and how you

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Speaker 1: go about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so she taught me basically, you need to get educated,

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Speaker 3: but you're going to work hard.

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Speaker 2: And no one's going to give you anything. You've got

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Speaker 2: to work hard.

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Speaker 3: But the other thing is a social obligation, right as well.

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Speaker 1: And I'll come back to the social obigation a second,

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Speaker 1: because I think how we get brought up, where we

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Speaker 1: get brought up, and how we get brought up have

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Speaker 1: a great impact on our sense of social obligation. What

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Speaker 1: would someone like you put down to some of your

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Speaker 1: strengths as a result of observing, not being told, but

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Speaker 1: observing how your mother lived her life and how your

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Speaker 1: mother raised you, and you know, observations that that maybe

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Speaker 1: inspired you or you felt as though were tales that

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Speaker 1: you must observe in terms of how you live your

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Speaker 1: life as a young man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just watching your parents have to navigate that,

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Speaker 3: particularly from a perspective of a very young eyes. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I this happened my father passed up when I was five, right,

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Speaker 3: And how what I really learned from my mum just

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Speaker 3: watching the way in which she handled it and not

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Speaker 3: just stand but throughout resilience. Like what she taught me

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Speaker 3: really fundamentally was you need to be able to put

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Speaker 3: one foot in front of another. Really can be very

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Speaker 3: hard at times. Don't stop. Yeah, and that's the first part.

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Speaker 3: The other thing that, incidentally, that I really observed from

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Speaker 3: my mother is dignity. How important it is for you

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Speaker 3: to hold onto yours, but also how important it is

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Speaker 3: for you to respect everybody else's dignity too, regardless of

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Speaker 3: anyone's social station. You could be dealing with the richest

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Speaker 3: person in the world or the porest person in the world.

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Speaker 3: Everyone's a human and you've got to respect that dignity

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Speaker 3: and you've got to understand how crucial that is for

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Speaker 3: people as well as The other thing I've learned, and

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Speaker 3: the third thing I really learned from my mum is frankly,

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Speaker 3: the importance of family. Like we were very very very

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Speaker 3: tight knit family. We still are, but how important that

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Speaker 3: is for so many of us and therefore and the

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Speaker 3: community that sits around it, and I mean lots of

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Speaker 3: immigrant communities, particularly when I was growing up there weren't

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Speaker 3: that many people from India in Australia. Very different now,

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Speaker 3: but just everyone was there for everybody else. And that

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Speaker 3: importance of community and your obligations to each other really

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Speaker 3: is the other lesson I picked up from it.

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Speaker 1: And does that somehow bleed into how you approach your politics.

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Speaker 3: Yeap, that is the I mean, where do you get

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Speaker 3: your values and where do you get your principles? And

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Speaker 3: the good politicians know the answer to that question. And

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Speaker 3: where do I get my values and where do I

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Speaker 3: get my principles? I get it from my experiences and

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Speaker 3: my experiences where that you know the importance of people

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Speaker 3: being able to like to care for each other. It's

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Speaker 3: a fundamental part of how I think I have to

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Speaker 3: approach my job as well. But the point I was

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Speaker 3: baking about the dignity of people. You deal with lots

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Speaker 3: of different people in politics, but you have to respect

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Speaker 3: where everyone's coming from and treat everybody with respect when

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Speaker 3: you agree with them and when you discribe them.

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Speaker 1: So I've had people sort of come back to me

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Speaker 1: and say, this guy's actually liberal, is not actually a

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Speaker 1: labor party. And that's quite interesting because whilst on one hand,

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Speaker 1: you have to respect and be, in your case a

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Speaker 1: little bit even responsible for people's dignity as a or

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Speaker 1: of the state and as a senior leader in the

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Speaker 1: party that runs the state and has done for a

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Speaker 1: while now and probably will do for quite a while

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Speaker 1: in the future. You probably know that I am a

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Speaker 1: big Christmians fan so and he says high and I

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Speaker 1: say high back. But also you can make a decision

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Speaker 1: as to which stream of that dignity and awareness and

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Speaker 1: social impact that you're going to have, which stream of

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Speaker 1: that in relation to the Labor Party that you sit.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you could explain perhaps the difference between to

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Speaker 1: our listeners and most we don't know this, but the

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Speaker 1: nuances within the Labor Party, Like there is a Libor

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Speaker 1: party by the way, there's some of the left, some

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Speaker 1: of the rights on the middle, Labor parties on the left,

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Speaker 1: some of the rights in the middle. Where does Daniel

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Speaker 1: Murky sit in relation to that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look, I've always been I don't want.

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Speaker 1: To be too rigid. I'm sorry about if.

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Speaker 2: It's a great question.

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Speaker 1: Because you probably obviously it seems to me like as

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Speaker 1: someone come from your background, you respect enterprise, but at

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Speaker 1: the same time you want to look after those people

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Speaker 1: who need to look after.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the way I would describe it is

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Speaker 3: the type of I'm from the part of the Labor Party,

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Speaker 3: and I've always been attracted to the Labor Party in general.

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Speaker 3: But the part of the Labor Party that I obviously

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Speaker 3: am part of is the part that I guess the

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Speaker 3: poor Heating, Bob Hawk, Bob Carr, Chris Mints part of

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Speaker 3: the Labor Party, which is you do respect enterprise, and

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Speaker 3: you respect enterprise because it is also what provides people

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Speaker 3: with labor and therefore wages, and therefore gives them the

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Speaker 3: economic power to make decisions for themselves and for me,

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Speaker 3: How did I get exposed to that? Again, it goes

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Speaker 3: back to the product of my own childhood. So when

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Speaker 3: I was growing up, Bob Hawk and Porkeating were obviously

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Speaker 3: in charge of the country at the time. And but

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Speaker 3: I remember so vividly that when particularly I started to

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Speaker 3: turn about eight nine is when Bob Hawk and pork Eating.

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Speaker 3: Bob Hawk's last election put back to get ready for

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Speaker 3: Porkting's first is when I start to pay a bit

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Speaker 3: more attention to what's going on.

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Speaker 2: Early nineties.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's but that's the same time my family's

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Speaker 3: going through a lot of hardship. The reason we got

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Speaker 3: through it was because there was an excellent public school.

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Speaker 3: And the reason why we got through it was because

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Speaker 3: my mum could go to Taife and equally she got

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Speaker 3: a with us pension that Bob Hawk brought in and

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Speaker 3: she got access to superannuation, and I remember quite vividly

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Speaker 3: in nineteen ninety in the recession we had to have

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Speaker 3: when there were redundancies going around. She held on to

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Speaker 3: her job because the union stepped in to make sure

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Speaker 3: that she could. And that's how I learn my ethoss

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Speaker 3: too as well. But what I the lesson I drew

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Speaker 3: out of that was that each of us need to

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Speaker 3: the tools to succeed, and everyone, not everybody, gets access

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Speaker 3: to that by birth every And what's great about this

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Speaker 3: don't most don't right, And what's great about this country

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Speaker 3: is we've built a way which again you could be

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Speaker 3: spring boarded up, but also if something goes wrong, there's

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Speaker 3: the same thing that to catch you on the way down.

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Speaker 3: And that's the sort of part of the Labor Party

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Speaker 3: that I've always been most attracted to. And for me,

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Speaker 3: my attitude has always been that the principles are very strong,

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Speaker 3: how you apply them has to change. And I'm of

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Speaker 3: the view that what works best for people is when

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Speaker 3: ye labor and frankly enterprise working partnership to the extent

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Speaker 3: to which they can, and everyone gets to share.

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Speaker 2: In the prosperity.

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Speaker 3: But also when things go wrong, everybody shares the risk, yeahs.

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of like a little bit like the

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Speaker 1: mandate of the Reserve Bank. You know, it's about maintaining

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Speaker 1: the prosperity and welfare of all Australians, which is that

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Speaker 1: the words of their mandate. And you know, welfare is

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Speaker 1: just as important as prosperity. You don't want too much

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Speaker 1: prosperity as the cost of welfare. You' don't too much

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Speaker 1: welfare cost of prosperity as as fine.

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Speaker 2: It comes out of hard work.

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Speaker 3: And I'm from the part of the I guess what

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Speaker 3: brings me to the labor side of politics is that

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Speaker 3: I think people should be rewarded for hard work. Some

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Speaker 3: of the Liberal Party, don't get me wrong, we just

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Speaker 3: have different ideas as to how you do that. And

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Speaker 3: from my perspective though, the work ethic is so crucial,

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Speaker 3: and I just think also work gives people dignity, work

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Speaker 3: keeps people identity. I think it's so important and I

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Speaker 3: think it's why I'm from that part of the Labor

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Speaker 3: Party that says, yep, if you work hard, you should

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Speaker 3: get ahead.

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Speaker 1: So well, I've always had a view on work ethic,

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Speaker 1: not always I've had a more mature view on work

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Speaker 1: ethic of maybe the last twenty years competit what I

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Speaker 1: was when I was a kid, when I was a

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Speaker 1: young man. When I was a young man, I took

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Speaker 1: work ethic to mean the heart of the harder you work,

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Speaker 1: the greater reward. But as i've some time later, maybe

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Speaker 1: o the last twenty years, I've realized that my work here,

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Speaker 1: I think is driven by the fact that I'm blessed

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Speaker 1: that I can work, and then therefore, because I have

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Speaker 1: their blessing, I should use it. And what I don't

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Speaker 1: like is where I get sort of impeded, something impedes

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Speaker 1: my ability to use the thing that I've been I've

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Speaker 1: been blessed with them. What I mean by I can work,

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Speaker 1: I'm physically okay, able to get up early morning and

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Speaker 1: do my reading and do whatever else I do. I

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Speaker 1: was lucky enough to go through a university system which

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Speaker 1: I went through in those days was free, and in

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Speaker 1: fact I got given money to go to university because

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Speaker 1: you know, I've got some scholarships and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But those things don't exist anymore, and I'm a big

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Speaker 1: believe in those things. But I also think I owe

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Speaker 1: my country for doing that for me. And I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the West Suburbs, not quite as far out

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Speaker 1: as you, but I was punchbowlb Punchball. I grew up Punchball.

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Speaker 1: I left there when I was seventeen, moved over these

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Speaker 1: suburbs are to go to UNI. Can I ask you

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Speaker 1: when you you obviously went to Universe, I go back

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Speaker 1: to your university days. When you were at university, were

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Speaker 1: you thinking and what did you do at university? And

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Speaker 1: by the way, when you whatever it is you were doing,

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Speaker 1: what were you thinking about Australian's welfare during that period?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I got plutus, so I was quite young. I

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Speaker 3: mean when Bob Pocketting lost, I started to pay a

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Speaker 3: lot more attention to politics because I know, yeah, you

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Speaker 3: start to notice the nation's changing and then so I

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Speaker 3: spent a lot of time. Then I just started watching

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Speaker 3: the news and starting reading the newspapers and really got

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Speaker 3: into a lot of the public debate that was happening

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Speaker 3: at the time. I of course was railing against John

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Speaker 3: Howard every day. The irony, of course, Mark is at teenage,

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Speaker 3: Daniel Walkie hated John Howard and Peter Costello. Forty three

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Speaker 3: year old Daniel Walkie goes actually I disagree with a

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Speaker 3: lot of what they said and what they believed, but

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Speaker 3: I respect their professionalis. I respect the way in which

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Speaker 3: they approached the office. So yeah, that's how so my

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Speaker 3: appetite for public debate was kind of wedded in that

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Speaker 3: period of time. So when I went to university, I

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Speaker 3: wanted to do two things. So I wanted to do economics.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do law, and so I did undergraduate,

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Speaker 3: I spent my time looking at economics.

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Speaker 2: For what it's worth, I ended up.

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Speaker 3: Immersing myself in the final parts of Japanese monetary policy, and.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't all that good.

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Speaker 3: Well actually at the time it wasn't, but all the

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Speaker 3: work that effectively then Ben Benaki unleashes on the world

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Speaker 3: in twenty two thousand and eight, quantity of easy all

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Speaker 3: pioneered by the back of Japan nineteen eight to two

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Speaker 3: thousand and two. That's what I ended up spending a

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Speaker 3: lot of time reading about.

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Speaker 2: And then so I did.

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Speaker 3: Laurel I did economics, and then the university uts utes

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Speaker 3: and then so.

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Speaker 1: That must have just become a UNI at that stage because.

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Speaker 3: It was was a university. It became a university in

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Speaker 3: eighty six. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, when when John Dawkins

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Speaker 3: converted them from John Dawkins the Polytechnical Institute University.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, effectively. Well, by the way, universities as Wales, I

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Speaker 1: was one of the first students to do Niverse to

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Speaker 1: be a university student because it was a tech. So

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Speaker 1: I started them in seventy three. Yeah, well, and it

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Speaker 1: was a tech also it became a university and by

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Speaker 1: the way, great places to be when they became universities. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because they actually were really enthusiastic about their students. Ambitious, innovative, unbelievable,

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Speaker 1: innovative and ambitious was fantastic. So you got you went

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Speaker 1: through that process that used it.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And then when I finished, I did a master's just

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Speaker 3: for fun in defense studies. And so whilst I was

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Speaker 3: working as a lawyer at a trade union, I just

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Speaker 3: did masters for defense studies because I was very interested

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Speaker 3: in strategy.

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Speaker 1: That's that's no wonder Chris Joy loves you because that's

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Speaker 1: that's his defense policy and strategy is something that he's

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Speaker 1: absolutely besided with all but he's an economist, but he

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Speaker 1: loves that.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you get if you kind of look at

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Speaker 3: strategy or defense and you look at economics, you start

401
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Speaker 3: to see how the two meld.

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Speaker 2: That's a good thing.

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Speaker 3: It's a really good good background to have, and sort

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Speaker 3: of I think from my perspective, I do think it

405
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Speaker 3: gives you a lot more insight into how sort of

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Speaker 3: particularly global markets are interacting.

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Speaker 1: Out of state, especially at the moment, especially right now,

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Speaker 1: right like right now, it's critical. I just want to

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Speaker 1: go did the Labor Party? Will you a member Labor Party?

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Speaker 2: Younger?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so you were a member a party during

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Speaker 1: that period.

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Speaker 3: My mum wouldn't let me join until I was eighteen,

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Speaker 3: but when she did join, I signed up and I

415
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Speaker 3: remember I went to my first young labor event. I

416
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Speaker 3: think the third person I met is now the Premier

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Speaker 3: of New South Wales.

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Speaker 1: Oh really yeah.

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Speaker 3: We were all teenage young labour rights and so Chrismins

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Speaker 3: was there, as was a lot of now the senior

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Speaker 3: cabinet as well, the deputy Premier, and I r saw

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Speaker 3: it was a very similar age and so she joined

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Speaker 3: up as well.

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Speaker 2: We started in the same year.

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Speaker 3: How is she, by the way, she's getting better. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but she's obviously going through a tough time right now.

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Speaker 3: But she's a real trooper.

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Speaker 1: I wish are my best done. So when someone comes

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Speaker 1: to you and says, what does someone come to you

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Speaker 1: and say, identify you as a smart young lawyer or

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Speaker 1: an economist, and you know, one of the better students

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Speaker 1: at the uts, and say, we better get this kid

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Speaker 1: into our end of our gang. You join. We were eighting.

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Speaker 1: But like, did someone sort of earmark you or yeah

435
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Speaker 1: you the other way?

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Speaker 2: Well, I certainly got him.

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Speaker 3: I threw myself into it, into the Labor Party and

438
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Speaker 3: the labor movement. But to be frank, back then I

439
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 3: was far more interested in sort of the industrial relations

440
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Speaker 3: side of the labor movement.

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Speaker 1: As a lawyer though.

442
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, well as a lawyer, yeah, I mean Bill Keltv

443
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 2: a C. T.

444
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 3: Daddy A kind of meant they had a real interest

445
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 3: in labor economics and sort of how people get treated

446
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 3: at work.

447
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: One of the emperors of the Labor Party. Yes, and Bill,

448
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: by the way railing, and I should say this to Jim.

449
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 1: Bill is railing about what you're trying to do to superinnuation. Mate,

450
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: listen to Bill.

451
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,360
Speaker 3: But anyway, so I got in, and then yeah I did.

452
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 3: Actually I had the opportunity just to generally as being

453
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: a bit of a Labor Party activist and a movement

454
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 3: activists now Senator Tony Sheldon, he was the head of

455
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 3: the Truckers Union back then, and so he took a

456
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 3: punt on me and he hired me to work as

457
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 3: his summer intern. And when he was in charge of

458
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 3: the transport workers Union, and I ended up at the

459
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 3: airport talking to taxi drivers, food caterers, and then garbage

460
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 3: workers and then concrete cards and small business please or not,

461
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 3: they have a lot of small businesses in the transport

462
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 3: owner drivers and a lot of them are in the union.

463
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 3: And so it was a great education. And so he

464
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 3: took a punt on me.

465
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 1: And you apply for it or he reached out.

466
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: I applied for it, but I knew him, and so

467
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 3: I knew him, and also I have some friends who

468
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: also he was very good at mentoring a lot of

469
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 3: young people. And so a lot of people, believe it

470
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 3: or not, you will see that have quite who've gone

471
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 3: up to quite a lot of heights in the Labor Party,

472
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 3: in the Labor movement, will trace their lineage to sort

473
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: of I guess being mentored by Tony and the TWU

474
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 3: and they took a punt on me.

475
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: What you learn from those experiences. So you've got your

476
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: childhood experience with your mum and watching how hard work

477
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 1: sort of pays off, and it's nearly a non negotiable.

478
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: And then you go off into the university, you do

479
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: a economics law degree, you graduate, you're part of the

480
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: labor movement, you get luckily enough to get mentored by somebody,

481
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 1: and you get an expersions. How does that form or

482
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: refine your values and principles relative to being a politician.

483
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,719
Speaker 2: Well, actually two things.

484
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: When you kind of I mean, people love unions, they

485
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: hate unions like people don't tend not to have an

486
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: opinion in the middle. And I'll leave it to others

487
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: to judge. But for me personally, what I learned just

488
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 3: by a being there and b watching how Tony and

489
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 3: a lot of the leadership they were handling it was

490
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 3: just how the stakes really matter for people. And so

491
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,640
Speaker 3: when you are asking a person who's a small business

492
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,120
Speaker 3: who has mortgaged their house.

493
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 1: Might have a truck to buy a truck, yep.

494
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 3: And if something goes wrong with their business, they lose

495
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 3: the truck, they lose their job, and they lose their

496
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: house and they have to explain it to their family.

497
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 3: You start to learn that you have a lot a

498
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: duty of care, and so you learn very quickly that

499
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 3: they're not hiring you and they're not paying their membership

500
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 3: fees expecting you to be reckless. And what you learn

501
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 3: is very quickly is that when you are having to

502
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 3: negotiate pay and negotiate conditions and yes, often a lot

503
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 3: of conflict, that you are leading people, and the responsibility

504
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 3: of leadership is also paired with the need to be caring.

505
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: But I was a disciplined and another really simple way

506
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: of putting it is that if you're asking someone to

507
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: go on strike, if you're asking someone to stop being

508
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 3: on strike, you need to know why are you asking

509
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 3: them to give up their pay and also what are

510
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 3: we fighting for? How are we going to get a resolution,

511
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: and how are we going to make sure that the

512
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 3: enterprise you're working with survives. Really one of the people

513
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: one of the best pieces of advice I got there

514
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 3: from a mentor at the union was anyone can get

515
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 3: their people to go on strike, it's getting them to

516
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 3: go back in.

517
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: It's the hard bit.

518
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 3: And when you're telling someone that they're not going we

519
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 3: get paid, you better tell them why, and you better

520
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 3: have a strategy and you better better know how you're

521
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 3: going to get them what they want, and you're just

522
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 3: going to make sure that you're not risking their job

523
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: in the long term. That's the sort of ethos you learn,

524
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: and that's what I learn. And I want to say

525
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: the other thing is when you're having to stand up

526
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 3: at four in the morning at a kitchen at an

527
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 3: airline that produces food for airlines, you've got to treat

528
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 3: them with dignity. But I've got to tell you that

529
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 3: there's a no bullshet attitude out there.

530
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: Use your perspective, produce.

531
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I tell you when you're talking to

532
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 3: gabos at four in the morning, five in the morning,

533
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 3: there's a no bullsheit attitude towards it. And when you're

534
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 3: talking to owner drivers at six pm at night have

535
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 3: come in for a meeting, who we are negotiating a

536
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: contract with some of the biggest firms that literally they

537
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 3: mortgage their house.

538
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 2: Everything's on the line.

539
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: So that's what you mean by the steaks what's in it?

540
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: Ready steaks being what am I staking? What am I

541
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: potentially going to lose?

542
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 3: And that ethos is something for a politician is important

543
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 3: because you have a public trust.

544
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: As long as you've experienced it, and not everyone does.

545
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: But so you look at that, and obviously this year

546
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: and last year, this state has had a lot of

547
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: issues around railway unions and all that sort of stuff,

548
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: and do you And I've sent a lot of commentary

549
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: from you and often I and I'm glad you told

550
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: me this because often I'm thinking to myself, Daniel's only

551
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: looking at this from the point of view of what

552
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: the economy can afford, as opposed to I think probably

553
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: what you're going to now sad music. But I also

554
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: know what they're what they're trying to do. I understand

555
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: what's in it for them, why they're trying to improve

556
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: their position. Do you get like conflicted? And then when

557
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: Chris says, look, mate, we have to make a call

558
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: on this, you know, and which you did? You guys

559
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 1: made some really tough calls relative to the union's claims.

560
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

561
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, But look, the other way of putting it, Mark

562
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: is is that you know, you need to know how

563
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: to fight for your beliefs, often against your friends as well.

564
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 3: I mean, don't get me wrong, I have great respect

565
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: for the training. Does it mean I agree with them

566
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 3: and everything. No, But also as a labor politician and

567
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 3: a labor treasurer who's been elected by the public, who

568
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 3: holds a position on public trust, I always look for

569
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 3: what's in the public interest has to come first, and

570
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 3: often you can find mutual interests with the people within

571
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: me negotiating. But that does mean, yeah, often you do

572
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 3: feel conflicted. But I'm comfortable with it because from my perspective,

573
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 3: people deserve a train and we.

574
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: Need people as in consumers.

575
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: Consumers, yeah, and that's what our job as a government

576
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 3: is to deliver their essential services. And that often does

577
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: mean yep, you've got to have some tough conversations with

578
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: your workforce, respectful conversations with your workforce, and you have

579
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: to be looking for a solution at all times. Don't

580
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 3: get me wrong, but yeah, often that does mean you

581
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 3: have to say no. And I'm comfortable with that.

582
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: Because because I've thought about I've heard you and listened

583
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 1: to and watched and thought about Chris as well, and

584
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: you know, especially when they're being in et cetera about

585
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: some of those conflicts, particularly during the Transport blue that

586
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: was happening six months ago whenever it was and went

587
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: off at maybe a year I used to think to myself,

588
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: how does someone like Daniel balance off with what the

589
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: state can afford? Do you have to sit down and think, well,

590
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: this could cause a cascade of claims amongst others, and

591
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: we as a government who have to pay these wages

592
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: relative to the services being provided to the consumers. Do

593
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 1: you sit down and say we just can't afford this.

594
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do.

595
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: And when you say the unions, how do they respond?

596
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: Well, often they disagree, yeah, and you can afford it.

597
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: Though afford it both. I mean, they will obviously make

598
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 3: both points, and that's their job. I get that that's

599
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: their job. Their job is to argue hard. But my

600
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 3: job is also to argue hard. And you often do

601
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: find yourself where you just can't agree, and that does

602
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: often lead to industrial action which you don't have to

603
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: be resolved.

604
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: And a few times you went to the Fair Work

605
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: Commission and got rulings which I thought was good.

606
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: But Mark, you can't duckt the hard calls.

607
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 3: And the way the other way putting it is that

608
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: no one elects governments to make easy decisions like you

609
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: have to make her decisions. And if you expect to

610
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: be in government making simply easy calls. You want that,

611
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 3: that's just not tenable.

612
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: So from my.

613
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: Perspective, yep, you're quite right. Often I have to say

614
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 3: stay can't afford it. And particularly when we came to power,

615
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: we inherited a ten billion dollar deficit from the Liberal

616
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 3: Party and those who came before us, and a very

617
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 3: sharp rise in spending and a very large increase in debt.

618
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 3: And so from my perspective, the way through is just

619
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 3: to tell people the truth. We can't afford it, but

620
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 3: I should answer it. The point, from my perspective, the

621
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 3: reason why I was happy and comfortable with not having

622
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: to have these conversations is because what we were offering

623
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 3: was us a fair and we were It wasn't like

624
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: we were saying there's a wage free people pay card.

625
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: We weren't saying that we've been saying to people along.

626
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 3: In fact, we've been able to show up people that

627
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 3: we've delivered in New Southwest police officers the best pay

628
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: rise in a generation, once in a decade, pay rise

629
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 3: incidentally for by reform, by fixing a police insurance game

630
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: that was broken. So from my perspective, you could have

631
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: those conversations if you're offering people the truth and you're

632
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: offering them fairness and if they reject it, they reject it.

633
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean we have to agree.

634
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: So it's interesting that your position in relation to being

635
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: put into conflict is something you're quite comfortable with. And

636
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: you made the very good point, and it's a point

637
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: I wish all governments in Australia would adopt, is that

638
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: you will be put in conflict and you're not there

639
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: to please everybody, and you've got to do something which

640
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: is going to make someone unhappy. And that's a pretty

641
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: ballsy position to be prepared to take, to be honest

642
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: with you, and that's a pretty big cool to make.

643
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: Why is it that you guys do it? You and Minsen,

644
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 1: the rest of you, the rest of your team made

645
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: those calls, and perhaps you may not want even comment on,

646
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,239
Speaker 1: but perhaps others find it less palatable to be able

647
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: to make those calls.

648
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, look, I think lots of people are

649
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: making very hard decisions right now. I mean, the nation

650
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: and the state's coming out of some pretty tough times

651
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 3: and there are hard decisions that need to be made.

652
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 3: And you can't please everybody, that's for sure. And everybody

653
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: approaches it from a very different perspective. I guess what

654
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 3: I would say, though, is that it's a credit to

655
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 3: Chris and the way he leads a government and the

656
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: mandate he got and the party got when we were

657
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 3: elected two years ago.

658
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: We were elected to help solve the states.

659
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: Problems and particularly to make sure that people have good jobs,

660
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: they can afford to live in the city, they have

661
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 3: a roof over their head, and they've got great services

662
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,719
Speaker 3: in their neighborhoods. That's a really cool why we were here,

663
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: and we've been pretty upfront that will be candid about

664
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: what goes well. We'll also talk about what needs to

665
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: be done better. And yet we weren't elected to deduct

666
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,479
Speaker 3: the easy decision the hard decisions.

667
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: Were elected to make them.

668
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: And so from my perspective, I can't really answer a

669
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 3: question other than to say that's the ethos that we

670
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 3: bring and it does mean Yet we are making some

671
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 3: pretty tough calls, like you know, but it's leading to

672
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 3: better results for people in New South Wales. I mean,

673
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: we were in a pretty tough fight from the first

674
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 3: year and we got here with the teachers, but we

675
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: managed to land that in a scenario which delivered teachers

676
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 3: are great pay rise. But why is that good for

677
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 3: the people in New South Wales Because today we have

678
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: nearly half the number of counceled and merged classes in

679
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: public schools and New South Wales which more kids are

680
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 3: getting more access to more teachers, we've got more kids

681
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 3: getting access to tutoring. So from my perspective, the way

682
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: the reason why we make the calls is because we

683
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 3: know it leads to better outcomes for the people of

684
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: New South Wales and people we were elected to serve.

685
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: And so there's no way to avoid it.

686
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 3: If you want change, at times you have to disappoint people,

687
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: but you've got to tell people about why you're doing it.

688
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 3: You're going to be straight with what you're expecting to flow,

689
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 3: and then you've got to be accountable for the decisions

690
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 3: you make.

691
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: So because you've gone through teachers, nurses and transport, there

692
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: are the three big ones. Is there anything else?

693
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean look there's a lot.

694
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: Obviously police police weren't giving you trouble. I mean there

695
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: was no strike or whatever. Maybe it was, we didn't

696
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: know about it. But those three are the sort of

697
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 1: the standout ones. And I told you you held your

698
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: ground every time, and so did your So did your leader,

699
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: your premier, how's that relationship? I mean you explained us

700
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: how you first met, but how did that relationship come

701
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: about when you know, when the party was formed and

702
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: was running running for government, how did your relationship? Potentially

703
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: is the treasurer become a reality? Well, I mean with

704
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: the premier? Is that how worse to the premier point

705
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: the treasure how yes?

706
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I mean he's obviously as a leader

707
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: of the party and he allocates the jobs to everybody else,

708
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: so he's one who makes the call as to who

709
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 3: gets to do what. Obviously the deputy Premier gets a

710
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: pretty big say in choosing watch he wants to do.

711
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: So.

712
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: Chris got elected leader of the Labor Party when the

713
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: Labor Party was in real trouble actually and needed to

714
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 3: was out of power for about ten years here in

715
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 3: New South Wales.

716
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: Yea, and you had a lot of legacy crappiatity with

717
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: the Obedes said a drama.

718
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he got elected as a frankly a new

719
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 3: generation like none of us were around at that point

720
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 3: in time, with all the legacy issues.

721
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 2: With the bed and so he set up he's set

722
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 2: up a very good ethos.

723
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 3: Amongst the leadership team and the people who lead the

724
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,400
Speaker 3: news and lost goverment's very collaborative, it's very.

725
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 2: Consensus driven.

726
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: I would call it modern.

727
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very modern.

728
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: It doesn't younger people sort of running it.

729
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,400
Speaker 2: It's very very respectful of it.

730
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 3: So from his perspective, like he set subviously the tone.

731
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: But obviously it's a huge privilege to be a.

732
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 3: Treasurer of the state and be a treasurer in the

733
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: other government. I have to say, as treasurers are only

734
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 3: as effective as their premiers will let them be. And

735
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: I'm very fortunate that I have a very good relationship

736
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 3: with the premiere as well, and he is a very

737
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 3: collaborative leader to work with, which means that we can

738
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: make the tough decisions.

739
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 2: We do it as a team.

740
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 1: So you were talking about, you know, the sort of

741
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: some of the tough decisions, sort of your tactical stuff.

742
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: You know, I'm dealing with the transport, I'm dealing with

743
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: this issue, dealing with that issue. There. The day to

744
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: day bushfires is got to be put out and that's

745
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: their hard they're hard calls every day, probably you know,

746
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: many times per day every day. But then we can

747
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: talk about the strategy stuff. One of the things I

748
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to about today's your budget. You've just

749
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: leished your budget and there is there your strategy. That's

750
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: that's New South Wales economic strategy for the start of

751
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: the next twelve months. You've just released it. I saw

752
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: that you took a fairly what I would call call

753
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: economically pragmatic position. You've you're looking to build surpluses. Yep,

754
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 1: it's different to a lot of other governments.

755
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I on the prize here Mark as well. You

756
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: have to deal with a lot of tactical issues and

757
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 3: state politics. Issues are up every day, but you got

758
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,399
Speaker 3: to keep your eyes on the prize, right, Why we here?

759
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: What do we want to do?

760
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: Correct?

761
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 3: And so when we will framing the budget, we're framing

762
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: the budget knowing that there's really three very important things

763
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 3: we have to do for the New Cell worlds's future. First,

764
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 3: make sure people get a home, and we are dealing

765
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,000
Speaker 3: with the housing crisis. We have to make sure we

766
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: keep building more homes for people to live. We can't

767
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: duck the fact that we just haven't been building enough

768
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,879
Speaker 3: homes here in New South Wales. We need to build,

769
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: We need to build, and we need to build, and

770
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 3: so we did a lot of our settings. We're designed

771
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 3: to make sure that we were intervening into the markets,

772
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: working with the private sector to really get more homes

773
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 3: built in New South Wales and to give the private

774
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: sector a lot of confidence to say yes to those

775
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: investment cases. Why is that important because go back to

776
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 3: the sort of what we started. If you happen to

777
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 3: be a family in a circumstance similar to mine annuals,

778
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 3: be it in Punchable or beat in Marylands, if you

779
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: don't get access to a good home, you don't get

780
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 3: anything else. And if you haven't got housing security, your

781
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 3: capacity to get to the education is diminished. To your

782
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 3: capacity to convert your work into wealth harder, very hard.

783
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 3: So we want to get more of that done. The

784
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 3: second thing we have to do is yet we have

785
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 3: to do a lot of fiscal repair. At a time

786
00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: where interest rates have been high, inflation has been high.

787
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 3: We've been very conscious that if we simply pour more

788
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: fuel on the fire, who ends up paying it. It's

789
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: frankly people with mortgages. And so in my first budget,

790
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 3: in our second budget, we were pretty determined to get

791
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 3: our expense growth under control and to.

792
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: Show an expense government expense growth.

793
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I came to power and into this office

794
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 3: and the government came to power, should say that the

795
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 3: news tap world's expenses were growing at roughly twenty four

796
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 3: percent a year the previous year on average six point

797
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 3: four percent over the previous five years, not sustainable at

798
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: a time of high inflations. Had to come down, and

799
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 3: so we have actually been able to report that we've

800
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 3: brought that down to now about two point four percent.

801
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: The other thing I should just say is the debt.

802
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 3: The debt has to be stabilized and brought down, and

803
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 3: I'm really pleased that by the end of this financial

804
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: year that's just started, we're on track to have about

805
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 3: ten billion dollars lower debt than we would have had

806
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,399
Speaker 3: it under our predecessors as well.

807
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: And why is that important?

808
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: Because everyone who's paying attention to markets right now knows

809
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: there a lot of a lot of uncertain and if

810
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 3: you happen to be in the bond market or exposed

811
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 3: to the bond market, which I know a lot of

812
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 3: your listeners we would pay a lot of attention to,

813
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: it's in a lot of state of flux, and so

814
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 3: us being able to show that we're the only state

815
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 3: that actually cut its forecast for issuance after the budgets.

816
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: I think it's really important.

817
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: It was a big deal to by the way, I

818
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: probably it's the bilot of people, but that's a big call.

819
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: I mean, strategically for a labor party. It's not something

820
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: I would not ordinarily expect to happen. I actually thought

821
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: it was very brave, courageous, great call. How do you

822
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: look at that in relation to maybe what their rating

823
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: agencies are thinking?

824
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 3: Well, I'm thinking about where are we going as a

825
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 3: state and what do we need right? And so the

826
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 3: rating agencies have been clear from the moment I became

827
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,479
Speaker 3: treasurer the credit rating is at a real risk.

828
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 2: Has been for a privilege.

829
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty much ours is a privilege, yeah, efetually.

830
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we've been conscious of it for a while.

831
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 3: The rating agencies are going to have to make their

832
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 3: own minds up. But put it this way, after the

833
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 3: budget we gave just last week, our metrics are better.

834
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: Debt is stable as a percentage of GSP, and the

835
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 3: only state that's showing it coming down as well, it's

836
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 3: a lot lower than otherwise thinks. We are literally going

837
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: to the bond market and asking for less money today

838
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 3: than we people were expecting us two weeks ago. So

839
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 3: from my perspective, I think it's a really important signal

840
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: to send that here in New South Wales the finances

841
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: are stabilizing. Is the job done No, obviously it's not

842
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 3: done there. But I'm really pleased that we are now

843
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 3: able to show that there is a pathway back to surplus.

844
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 3: A lot needs to go right. I'm very cautious about it.

845
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: I'm not doing any vitory laps whatsoever. I mean, I

846
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 3: remember when I gave my first budget we had a

847
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 3: pathway to surplus. Then the very next year in New

848
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 3: South Wales got hit with a massive reduction in GST income.

849
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 3: We had twelve billion dollars taken off us. This year

850
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 3: we've been able to show people that we're getting on

851
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: with our job, but we are stabilizing the state's finances.

852
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: As well with twelve billion less.

853
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, we lost twelve billion in revenue last year in

854
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 3: GS the biggest hit in the New Civil's revenue in decades.

855
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 3: The last year's Comonwealth Grant's decision on the GST break

856
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 3: up between the states, and every year the way I

857
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: should just explain it is that the common Wealth Grants Commission,

858
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 3: independent body sits federally tells every state what you're going

859
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 3: to get. We lost a lot of money. We lost

860
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: more money from their decision than we did during COVID,

861
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: so a big hit to the finances, which obviously is

862
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: my job to manage as a treasurer.

863
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: Do you think you did You get a chance to arguement.

864
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:27,839
Speaker 2: Ah, no, you make.

865
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: Your case, but you know it's pretty opaque. Put it

866
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 3: this way, I can not explain to your listeners.

867
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: How they carve it up.

868
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: Couldn't do it. So it's such a weird way in

869
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 3: which to allocate.

870
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: It's about contribution that I don't understand it like it

871
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 1: is about it can't be about numbers of people.

872
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: Well, it's a.

873
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,479
Speaker 3: Bit about numbers of people, and it's a bit about

874
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: how much they think it costs to deliver services in

875
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 3: your state.

876
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 1: But if you're doing a really good job delivering services

877
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: in the state, or is it their services they deliver

878
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 1: in your state, No.

879
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 2: It's ours.

880
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: So if you're doing a really good job at it.

881
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 2: You often can lose money.

882
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: Says counterintuitive to me. Be getting rewarded for.

883
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 3: Well there you go. If you blow and behold, if

884
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: they kind of think that perhaps that you're more I

885
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: guess one view efficient the conclusion is less you need less. Yeah,

886
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 3: so it's it's a weird system, right, And Mark, I'm

887
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: not being cute and saying this. We could be here

888
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,879
Speaker 3: for the next two hours. I'm still not sure I'd

889
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,320
Speaker 3: be able to shed much light in how it works,

890
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: other than to say it's widely unpredictable. And it's certainly

891
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 3: from my perspective, if you can't understand it, people want

892
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 3: support it. And I think we can do better as

893
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 3: a nation in fixing it.

894
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: So last year you you twelve down, billin down in

895
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: terms of allocation from the GST.

896
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 3: That's a big part of every state's budget.

897
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that right, And so as a result of that,

898
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: for this budget, you had to go about and make

899
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,479
Speaker 1: sure you cut the cloth to suit yep, and start

900
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: to reduce costs. We have to we have to make

901
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 1: an assumption that you're not going to get you're not

902
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:53,439
Speaker 1: going to stock going to increase for some.

903
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: Well, basically we have to keep cost gross down. We

904
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 3: haven't been sort of having to because a lot of

905
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 3: the work we did in our first budget we were

906
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 3: able to absorb the impact. But it just means we've

907
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 3: had to keep ourselves in a very disciplined posture and

908
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 3: it means that you have to say no to a

909
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 3: lot of things as treasule, a lot of things have

910
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 3: a lot of merit. But again, Mark, you know, is

911
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 3: that every business in every house that has to do

912
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 3: the same thing. Yeah, it's not like you do it

913
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 3: all the time. You have to do it all the time,

914
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 3: and so for governments as well, it's important. Then other

915
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: thing I sort to say is why I think it's

916
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: important for the economy really large, is that we need

917
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: to get more private sector growth happening. This is a

918
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: conversation the nation's happening. I agree very much with the

919
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: federal government when they say that the next era of

920
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: Australian growth is going to need to be led by

921
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: the private sector. But for us, what that means is

922
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: by showing that we're stabilizing our finances here in New

923
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 3: South Wales, it's giving the private sector a lot more

924
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 3: confidence to go. Okay, we want to invest more in

925
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 3: the state and the state's up in for business.

926
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 1: So one of the initiatives, now, forgive me if I

927
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: got this not quite right. But one of the initiatives

928
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: that you were talking about is in relation to probably

929
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: the wrong word to use, but sort of underwriting developed.

930
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, pre self finance guarantee, because.

931
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 1: That's an important one. So it's not only about house

932
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: avoidability or housing supplies, I should say, but correct me

933
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. Is that because apart from you know,

934
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 1: first time grant and all those sorts of things, the

935
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: end of the day, housing supplies not from the governments,

936
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: from developers and you've got to make it such that

937
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: they can borrow money and if they can't, and usually

938
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 1: they borrow money from banks, sometimes from private lenders, but

939
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: usually from banks. And the banks have a fairly strict

940
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: regime which that they're made to have through the regulator,

941
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: that they have pre sales and they'll only lend up

942
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: to a certain percentage of the tital development costs, et cetera.

943
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: Was that something you guys sat around and unpicked and

944
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: worked out. This is something we have to in New

945
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: South Wales. Aggresses so major you can you just explain

946
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: what it is you did, You've.

947
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 3: Launched, So it is sort of it's what I would

948
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 3: describe as a canny use of the government's balance sheet. Careful,

949
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: very very care full use but can he use? And

950
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 3: it comes from this you sit in talking to people

951
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,239
Speaker 3: about what's stopping them from getting going on construction.

952
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: So the only land out of camp and where it is,

953
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: got a couple of thousand put ten thousand hours on there,

954
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: but they're not doing it. They're just land being it.

955
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, alternatively, actually they've got approval to build.

956
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: Some apartments near railway stations in neighborhoods people love to

957
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: live in, and they need to go and convince their lenders, banks, finances,

958
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 3: private credit that there's enough bias. Often what they're being

959
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: told is you need to have eighty percent of the

960
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 3: STOCKSLT PRESLT committed. Yep, you need to show us that

961
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 3: you have eighty percent sold. What we've said is, well, actually,

962
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 3: if you're building at that level, those sort of mid

963
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: tier apartments in these neighborhoods, which everyone selling me are

964
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 3: the most challenging projects to get feasibility approve.

965
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: On a billion dollar development.

966
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 3: Billion dollar can be up to a billion, but equally

967
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 3: we're talking about, for example, the six to nine, three

968
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: to nine story right apartments, particularly that mid tier in

969
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 3: areas that are already built up.

970
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: And in zones where you would like to see more

971
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: development a relative to say transport.

972
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, where we've already got transport, we've got schools, where

973
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: we've got water, where you're ready to go, like the

974
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 3: neighborhoods can absorb a bit more housing. And also there's

975
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: lots of people who are renting in these suburbs who

976
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 3: are looking for a place to buy, and so it's

977
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 3: the first step on the housing. Latter is the other

978
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: way putting it. But just by talking to those people

979
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 3: who are doing that, all of them were saying, well,

980
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,879
Speaker 3: these are the most challenging projects to get we get

981
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 3: to fifty percent sales, but the bank's one eighty.

982
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 2: If you step.

983
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 3: In and just go, you'll buy some of them, like

984
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: you're prepared to buy. You the government, you the government

985
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 3: will buy some of them as.

986
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: A buyer of last results, so to speak, and not

987
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: one of last result, but underwrite the buy under the buying.

988
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: Right you just that gap, just that gap. That's an

989
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 3: enough for us to then unlock the money and get

990
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 3: the construction going.

991
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 1: That's enough to convince the banks or the lenders that

992
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: were in fact the banks, the lenders going to say well, wow,

993
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 1: that's a government, So triple a rate a government. That's

994
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 1: not bad. That's a good enhancement.

995
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,959
Speaker 3: And for the people in New South Wales, right, what's

996
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 3: the worst outcome we get we get a.

997
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: House, we by you, the state government have a house.

998
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: We end up getting the house.

999
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we get the house and we can then

1000
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: use it for social housing or affordable housing, or we'll

1001
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: sell it ourselves in the event that happens. So it's

1002
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: a pretty canny use of the sort of state's balance sheet.

1003
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 3: We say, all right, well, we're prepared to go as

1004
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 3: a buyer and underwrite the buy and that gap. That

1005
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: means we can bring forward roughly fifteen thousand additional private

1006
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 3: sector dwellings, which is not a silver bullet, But there's

1007
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: no one policy that's a silver bullet. It's how they

1008
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 3: all work with each other. And what that means is that, yeah,

1009
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 3: we are building more homes for people to buy and

1010
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 3: for people to rand at relatively low risk for the

1011
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 3: state of New South Wales, which is what we need

1012
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: to do if we're serious about getting the house in crisis.

1013
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 3: But you brought upon is right, mark the housing crisis

1014
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,280
Speaker 3: will be solved by the private sector building more homes

1015
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 3: only way, only way, and we were doing our bit,

1016
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 3: and when it comes to social housing, we're doing our

1017
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 3: bit when it comes to essential worker housing. But ultimately

1018
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 3: we need all of it above, win all of the

1019
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 3: above solution. And the way I put it is, we

1020
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,919
Speaker 3: need more homes for social housing, we need more affordable homes,

1021
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 3: we need more homes for our central workers, we need

1022
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 3: more homes for people to buy and rant, we need

1023
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: more humps and so from our perspective, the Premier has

1024
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 3: made it very clear as a government, this is a

1025
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 3: core mission to us and so we're doing what we

1026
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 3: need to do to make sure that people have a

1027
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:36,919
Speaker 3: roof over their head.

1028
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: I have heard some people say criticize all government's been

1029
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: in particular the new Southwalest government as well, because your

1030
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: contribution towards the one point two million houses over the

1031
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: next now four years, which is what was the federal

1032
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: government sort of discussion about a year or so ago.

1033
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: You won't make it. Probably you won't make it. But

1034
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: the point I think the point being here is from

1035
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: your point of view, at least in relation to this budget,

1036
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: is this is a start, and you can't you just

1037
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: spa say I know we're not going to make it,

1038
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: probably won't make it, but that doesn't mean I can't

1039
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: do anything. I'm going to try and make it. So

1040
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: where just just if you could just explain to me

1041
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: where does that it's called a credit enhancement? What you

1042
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: what you've actually done if you enhanced the credit of

1043
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: the builder relative to the lender, for the lender to

1044
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: grant the builder developer the money to do the development.

1045
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: I've done.

1046
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: Think I've ever seen a government put their balance sheet

1047
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: up effectively by underwriting that enhancement, which is pretty typically

1048
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: what lenders want to see relative to a developer. How

1049
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: did how do I mean, where does that idea come from?

1050
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 1: Like do you do you talk to credit providers? Do

1051
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: you go out and talk to well known builders and

1052
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: say mate, what is it that you need to lay

1053
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: you get this project up and running?

1054
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 3: Yes, we do, and that's what good company will work.

1055
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 3: They listen and credit to the Planning Minister paulk here

1056
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 3: in New South Wales and his department that's been at

1057
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 3: the front lines of all these conversations. And in fact,

1058
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 3: how did this policy come about? We were having these

1059
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 3: conversations two years ago with what do we need to

1060
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 3: do what's stopping people? And Paul last budget we're a

1061
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 3: very quiet announcement we did the two of us did

1062
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 3: on a Saturday morning in which we said, all right,

1063
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: we'll have put it a little bit of money to

1064
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: look at this, and not big amounts of money, but

1065
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 3: enough money for us to then start getting in do

1066
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 3: the proper policy work that's designed and then Paul and

1067
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 3: his team have driven it since. And as Treasurer, of course,

1068
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: when it comes to the use of the balance sheet,

1069
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 3: the Treasurer has to be comfortable and we had a

1070
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 3: real look at it. We got in there how to

1071
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 3: do a lot of due diligence and we spoke to

1072
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 3: a lot of people industries, spoke a people in the banks,

1073
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: what stops you? And yes, because we were doing that listening,

1074
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 3: we were able to come up with this nation leading

1075
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: scheme which we will hopefully bring forward about fifteen thousand

1076
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: dollars in the next sort of few years. So from

1077
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 3: our perspective, that's what governments need to do. Like and

1078
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 3: frankly here in New South Wales, we're unabashed about the

1079
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 3: fact that we will listen to anyone who's got a

1080
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 3: good idea from a business be a union, be an

1081
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: industry group. If we're signing, if we want to solve

1082
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 3: the housing crisis, we're all going to have to work

1083
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 3: with each other.

1084
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just think is a great example for

1085
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 1: other states to consider. And I guess that's what leadership

1086
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: is all about. You know, taking a risk. You are

1087
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: taking a risk, but based on you know, as you said,

1088
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: due diligence and mean you at the end of the day,

1089
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 1: the worst comes to words, you end up owning house.

1090
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 3: But Mark, the other point is this, doing nothing is risky. Yeah,

1091
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 3: to one hundred percent, Like doing nothing's lost locking out

1092
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 3: an entire generation from the prospect of ever owning a home,

1093
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 3: and that doing nothing is to risk us losing our

1094
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 3: egoitarian ethos, which says, no matter where you come from,

1095
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: you can get ahead, and you can own and you

1096
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 3: can build your wealth here in this state and in

1097
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 3: this country. So from my perspective, the status quo is risky.

1098
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 3: And yep, you've got to be very careful when you're

1099
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 3: using the state's balance sheet, don't get me wrong. But

1100
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: from my perspective, we're trying to solve a challenge, and

1101
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: a pretty immense challenge of it, and we need to

1102
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 3: make some progress just in order to make sure that

1103
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: we can hold on to what we have here. So

1104
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 3: from our perspective, we should be listening and yep, we

1105
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 3: should be working in partnership with everybody, workers, unions, business

1106
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 3: industry to get more homes billed for people.

1107
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: And I just think for me, it's one of the

1108
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 1: best in issues I've seen for a government to do,

1109
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: the state or federal for a long long time being

1110
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: prepared to step in and use their balance sheet in

1111
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,360
Speaker 1: order to get a really important outcome that is housing,

1112
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: more housing, more housinges the Treasurer just to kick finalize

1113
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: this thing off, finalize our conversation off. What are the

1114
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 1: some of the highlights that you'd like to point out

1115
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: in relation to your latest budget.

1116
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1117
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: I mean, there's one thing that I'm really proud of

1118
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,400
Speaker 3: that we did in this budget, which is we delivered

1119
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 3: the biggest increase to child protection in New South Welsest history.

1120
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 3: And these are for kids who it's not safe for

1121
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 3: them to stay at home. These are for kids who

1122
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 3: need to be looked after by the government and foster

1123
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 3: cares and a lot of our charities in non for profits,

1124
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,959
Speaker 3: we in this budget made a one point two billion

1125
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 3: dollar investment in better child protection and equally delivered the

1126
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: first increase in the foster carries allowance in real terms

1127
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 3: for twenty years and for those people who are caring

1128
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 3: for kids who are not their own, really important that

1129
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 3: they can afford to do so. So I'm really pleased

1130
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 3: about that, and why I'm most really proud about that

1131
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 3: is because the way in which we paid for it

1132
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 3: wasn't just simply to throw more money at it. We

1133
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: actually fixed a lot of the problems that we were

1134
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,439
Speaker 3: dealing with in child protection that we started this working

1135
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: year one Mark.

1136
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess when we became.

1137
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 3: When we got sworn in, when Chris became premiy, I

1138
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 3: became a treasurer, and Kate Washington became the minister responsible

1139
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 3: for this. Here in New South Wales, we had one

1140
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: hundred kids on average a night sleeping in motels.

1141
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 1: And I can't believe that I got a shocked bye.

1142
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred odd kids every night for the two

1143
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 3: years of really hard work and reform behind the means

1144
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 3: meant that though there's as of April this year, no

1145
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,360
Speaker 3: kids were sleeping from hotels, And just to put that

1146
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 3: in really numeric terms, those are kids sleeping in that

1147
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 3: type of arrangement per year cost roughly a million dollars.

1148
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 3: A million dollars because we had so many of them.

1149
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: This was not a good use of public money and

1150
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 3: it wasn't learning into a good outcome for the kids.

1151
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 3: But because we've been fixing that for two years, we

1152
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 3: now have that money to then re employ into a

1153
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: much better system. And I'm really proud of that because

1154
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,439
Speaker 3: that's a lot of hard work that our government has done,

1155
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,800
Speaker 3: and again that Minister has led us and the Premiere

1156
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 3: and as a team have delivered. But that's the type

1157
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 3: of stuff that reminds you about why you're.

1158
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: In this job and anything which you wanted to throw

1159
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,800
Speaker 1: out that highlight in raace to your budget.

1160
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1161
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 3: The other thing I'm really proud of as well with

1162
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 3: this particular budget is again we are showing people that

1163
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 3: we are making investments in the things that we care

1164
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 3: about at the same time we're stabilizing the finances treasure.

1165
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: I know you've got some you've got a lunch you

1166
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: go to go and attend and I'm getting wound up

1167
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: by my crew over this idea, But I really appreciate

1168
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: you coming in there and uh. And Chris, everything you

1169
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: said about him, he's lived up to it.

1170
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 2: Mate. That's a great chat. Thanks mate,