WEBVTT - ‘Outrageous sexism’ behind Mamamia pile-on

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Monday, July twenty seven, twenty twenty six. Unions will

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<v Speaker 1>push for the newly announced Fair Work Court to handle

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<v Speaker 1>a sweeping array of workplace issues, including dismissal disputes. A

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<v Speaker 1>bright young man gets a big new job in media

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<v Speaker 1>and it triggers an epic pylon. Plus another bright young

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<v Speaker 1>man gets rejected by his own would be co host

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<v Speaker 1>for his own big new job in media. It's Monday,

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<v Speaker 1>and Steve Jackson's here to discuss his media diary and

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<v Speaker 1>all the big yarns in news and entertainment. Jacko's here

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<v Speaker 1>in just a moment. Steve Jackson edits The Australian's media

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<v Speaker 1>diary and I've dragged him in here basically because I

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<v Speaker 1>want to give you a.

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<v Speaker 2>Lecture Jacko about time.

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<v Speaker 1>He's not the U said anything, but I've got some

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<v Speaker 1>I've got feelings about the controversy surrounding Mma.

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<v Speaker 3>Miya out louder, Hello and welcome to Mama Maya Out Loud.

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<v Speaker 2>It's what we've are actually talking about on Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>Mia Friedman, the founder of Mama Maya, along with her

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<v Speaker 1>husband Jason Levine, have announced that the new CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>the organization is going to be their son, Luca Levine,

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<v Speaker 1>who's been working in a senior role at the organization

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<v Speaker 1>for a while. And this is kicked off some very annoying,

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<v Speaker 1>to my view, chatter on particularly on social media, from

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<v Speaker 1>people who think that they shouldn't be doing this.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm really happy for this to be a listening portion

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<v Speaker 2>of the show for me, and just learned from mine.

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<v Speaker 2>I see something like this and I have seen it

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<v Speaker 2>kicking off. Everyone's talking about it, young guy who's now

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<v Speaker 2>controlling a female voice website. For mine, it's like passing

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<v Speaker 2>down the family fish and chip shop to your son

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<v Speaker 2>or your daughter. I don't have an issue with it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the gender wars are a bit reductive, but

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<v Speaker 2>I am a man and I'm prepared to go. We

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<v Speaker 2>had out time. I'm here to listen. What are you thinking?

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<v Speaker 1>You're a listening to her? Well, I think I agree

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<v Speaker 1>with you. I think that it is absolutely Maya and

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<v Speaker 1>Jason's right to hand this company to whomever they think

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<v Speaker 1>he's going to be best for it. And if that

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<v Speaker 1>happens to be their son, well, there are plenty of

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<v Speaker 1>family businesses around. As you say, he has been working

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<v Speaker 1>in a senior role. He has been there right at

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<v Speaker 1>the top, well very close to the top, while they

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<v Speaker 1>have been absolutely flying. Mama Maya has diversified into a

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<v Speaker 1>subscription and ad revenue business, so they've diversified their sources

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<v Speaker 1>of revenue and their podcast at the top of the charts.

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<v Speaker 1>Maya Friedman in the meantime, has stepped away from some

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<v Speaker 1>of her hosting roles and from her kind of operations

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<v Speaker 1>roles and now just wants to be a content person.

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<v Speaker 1>She just wants to be on the podcast kind of

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<v Speaker 1>talking and doing some writing as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Seems fair enough after all those years to go all right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm ready just to do the fun side of the business. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>They pitch themselves as Australians or maybe the world's number

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<v Speaker 1>one women's media network, and that means that they've got

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<v Speaker 1>an audience who thinks that they get to have a

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<v Speaker 1>say and who runs the show, which I think is

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely outrageous. Like, if you like this content, you should

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<v Speaker 1>be aware that it has been run by a man

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<v Speaker 1>for most of its existence. Jason Levine was the CEO

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<v Speaker 1>for the first seventeen years well and now it's an

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<v Speaker 1>outrage that they're handing it to a man. It's really sexist,

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<v Speaker 1>it's outrageous.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the things people have got to remember,

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<v Speaker 2>in my view, if I've allowed to say it, is

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<v Speaker 2>it's Mama Mia. That pun is. Her name's Mia. The

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<v Speaker 2>mama part comes from Luca, like he's what made Mia

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<v Speaker 2>the mama. So he's sort of like integral to the thing.

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<v Speaker 2>His whole existence is town up in this. But also, Claire,

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<v Speaker 2>tell me, do you think is it the fact it's

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<v Speaker 2>handed over to a next generation of that family or

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<v Speaker 2>is it because of his gender. If it was MIA's

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<v Speaker 2>daughter taking it on, would there be outrage.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably not, It would be more like you go, girl,

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<v Speaker 1>you know how exciting. But there certainly has been a

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<v Speaker 1>thread that he's nepo baby and that he can't possibly

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<v Speaker 1>have earned this job. I don't know Luke Levine at all.

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<v Speaker 1>I've only met me a few times, and I have

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely no skin in this game. And it is sensitive

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<v Speaker 1>when you are the child of someone who works in

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<v Speaker 1>the same industry. But we see that in many industries.

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<v Speaker 1>There are families of lawyers, there are families, as you say,

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<v Speaker 1>fish and ship owners, families of plumbers. I come from

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<v Speaker 1>a media family.

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, I've met your father when

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<v Speaker 2>I was at Channel nine, quite a prominent media family.

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<v Speaker 1>Dad was a TV journalist. His uncles were all sports journalists.

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<v Speaker 1>Dad's grandfather was a sports journalist, and so was his

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<v Speaker 1>great grandfather, and so there's a long line of journals.

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<v Speaker 1>But I went into newspapers when I was seventeen because

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't want anyone to think that I was trying

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<v Speaker 1>to get a free ride off Dad's reputation. So I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't go anywhere near TV. I came and got a

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<v Speaker 1>job at The Australian and I worked for free for

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<v Speaker 1>months and months before they started paying me. I'll put

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<v Speaker 1>in that expense claim something some time later, but I'm

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<v Speaker 1>very grateful that I got to have a career in newspapers.

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<v Speaker 2>It's easy to forget where Mum and Mia started. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember fifteen years ago it was basically blog right, it

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<v Speaker 2>was mea freedman's thoughts. I remember in magazines people like,

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<v Speaker 2>ah mea freeman, she's a blog. She's not going to

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<v Speaker 2>take over the magazines? What she It's now the behemoth

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<v Speaker 2>the magazines are on the way. But she worked hard,

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<v Speaker 2>her whole life for this. The great backer and supporter

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<v Speaker 2>of women's magazines in this country at their peak when

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<v Speaker 2>they were powerful, and we're talking ASTRAYM, Women's Weekly and

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<v Speaker 2>Women's Day. We know it was the late Kerry Packett.

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<v Speaker 2>He really believed in those products. He gave him heaps

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<v Speaker 2>of money. But just because a guy's in charge of

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<v Speaker 2>some element of the business doesn't mean that it's not

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<v Speaker 2>a driven for women by women. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>There was another controversy when Lee Sales of the ABC

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<v Speaker 1>and the very successful women focus podcast Chat ten looks

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<v Speaker 1>three shut down a conversation about this in the chat

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<v Speaker 1>ten looks three Facebook group. Lee Sales in two instances

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<v Speaker 1>stopped discussions happening in that group about you know, basically

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<v Speaker 1>bagging me of Friedman for this decision to appoint her

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<v Speaker 1>son to be CEO. And Lee said in the group,

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<v Speaker 1>you know she's friend, We're not going to have this discussion,

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<v Speaker 1>which again I think is totally fair enough. What gives

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<v Speaker 1>women this sense of entitlement that they're allowed to just

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<v Speaker 1>bag another woman who's made a decision for me. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like when the Old Boys Club say that women are

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<v Speaker 1>not allowed to run football clubs, because what would they know.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, all women are right in all circumstances at

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<v Speaker 2>all times clever, but particularly Lee's sales in this circumstance.

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<v Speaker 2>What I really liked about what Lee did there is

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<v Speaker 2>this is a vituperative industry where everyone and we all

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<v Speaker 2>know when we go to the pub, if you don't

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<v Speaker 2>get the yarn, and you love bagging the person who

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<v Speaker 2>did get the yard.

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<v Speaker 1>I knew about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I had that one, but the editor didn't want it.

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<v Speaker 2>But what I love is that she just said here

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<v Speaker 2>on MySpace, we're not going to be bagging there, Freeman.

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<v Speaker 2>She's a friend. I've known Lucas since he was a kid.

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<v Speaker 2>I just I love seeing when people stand up for

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<v Speaker 2>other people in this industry because it is one of

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<v Speaker 2>those ones that we're quick to rip people down when

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<v Speaker 2>there's a mistake, and I think, you know, it's only

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<v Speaker 2>when stuff like this happens where you see your friends say, hey, no,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not I'm not going to stand up with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I really liked how she did that.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing I wonder about the announcement of disappointment for

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<v Speaker 1>the Mama Mayor organization is did they mishandle the publicity

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<v Speaker 1>for it? Mayor Fredman is an expert in doing these

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<v Speaker 1>get Ready with Me videos where she does in makeup

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<v Speaker 1>while talking about something serious. And you know, when you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to the hairdresser, it feels like there's not much

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<v Speaker 1>point in doing your hair, like drying your hair and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, should they have had Luca kind of

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<v Speaker 1>doing his hair and flossing his tea announcing why he

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<v Speaker 1>was the right person to run the business again, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a cea.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean for me, I love writing about the CEOs.

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<v Speaker 2>We heard Matt Stanton referring to media watches media week

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<v Speaker 2>last week, and I love that. It's hilarious. But I know,

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<v Speaker 2>even when I'm writing my column, people want to read

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<v Speaker 2>about the people in front of the camera or the

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<v Speaker 2>people writing. It's a c oh, Mama Maya. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>even know who was doing it before. I know CEO

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<v Speaker 2>is now if you asked me a month ago, who's

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<v Speaker 2>the see of Mum and me doesn't have one.

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<v Speaker 1>This is the thing. When you create a beloved brand,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you also create an audience who feels quite

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<v Speaker 1>entitled to have an opinion. And you can see why

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<v Speaker 1>most CEOs want to stay in the background. You're talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Matt Stanton, the boss of nine Entertainment, at an

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<v Speaker 1>Andrew Oli media lecture sort of symposium moderated by Hamish

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<v Speaker 1>McDonald from the ABC and also featuring our boss, Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Miller and some other media bosses, including Hu Marks from

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<v Speaker 1>the ABC.

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<v Speaker 2>Jane Pofferman from the SBS.

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<v Speaker 4>We're capitalizing on having some of the brightest minds. They

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<v Speaker 4>wrote this script on sorry in media in the room

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<v Speaker 4>under one roof tonight to tackle.

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<v Speaker 1>This critical It's always pretty edgy when you hand microphones

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<v Speaker 1>to people who are normally not on camera, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and Matt Stanton was very relaxed. He's leaning back, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he's got his kind of linas and going on.

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<v Speaker 2>Leaning back the word I've heard and apologist to mattith

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<v Speaker 2>he's listening, but slouching.

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<v Speaker 5>Years smh's one hundred and ninety five years right old.

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<v Speaker 5>That's continued to evolve, whether it's through TV coming out

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<v Speaker 5>it radio, coming out of Internet, coming out of AI coming,

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<v Speaker 5>it will continue to evolve. We have to change our models,

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<v Speaker 5>so we've got no issue with that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think for at times during that lecture it felt

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<v Speaker 2>like should have directed questions about Channel ninety Hugh Marx,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's like, hu, Max, can you tell me what's

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<v Speaker 2>happening at Matt's company? Because Hugh, having been the former

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<v Speaker 2>nine CEO, obviously still across his brief at the ABC,

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<v Speaker 2>but he also seemed to know a lot about how

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<v Speaker 2>things should be going on at nine as well.

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<v Speaker 1>He kind of had to jump in and save Matt

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<v Speaker 1>when Hamish said to Matt, Karl Stefanovic said he was

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<v Speaker 1>not free before?

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<v Speaker 4>Was he not free to report at Night nine?

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<v Speaker 5>Has some the standards that we have within that Today

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<v Speaker 5>show area, and is a certain standards we have. Kyl

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<v Speaker 5>had decided and we'd already agreed some time ago that

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<v Speaker 5>and was leaving us. So it was was moving on and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll let mister Marks you want to feel that one.

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<v Speaker 1>And you jumped in and said, well, he was not

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<v Speaker 1>free because he was being held to some broadcast standards

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<v Speaker 1>and now no standards apply with.

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<v Speaker 5>His career, and we're absolutely fine with that as well.

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<v Speaker 3>But to your but to your point, the only thing

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<v Speaker 3>that Carl wasn't free was he had to comply with

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<v Speaker 3>broadcast standards. Well, that's the whole point I guess that

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<v Speaker 3>underpins this, this whole purpose and this public good is

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<v Speaker 3>it's a public good that is defined in every case

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<v Speaker 3>by standards.

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<v Speaker 4>So what's the difference between what Kyl does and those standards.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, now Carl obviously is saying he's free of standards

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<v Speaker 3>and and and so if that's what we want, If

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<v Speaker 3>that's what.

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<v Speaker 2>We want, He's made quite a few funny one liner

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<v Speaker 2>is through that. I thought he was quite good.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up auditioning Today Show host sam Armitage is flexing

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<v Speaker 1>her muscle. That's after the break. What's happening this week

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<v Speaker 1>on Today.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Samantha Armitage is coming in. She's replacing Sylvia Jeffries.

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<v Speaker 2>Mike Willisy Junior, another person who started his career at

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<v Speaker 2>The Australian, not wanting to follow his dad into television,

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<v Speaker 2>came to the OZS and started his career here. He's

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<v Speaker 2>getting a second week. The interesting thing is he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>going to get a second week, Claire. Up until Wednesday night,

0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.079
<v Speaker 2>it was going to be Joel Dry out of Brisbane

0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:30.319
<v Speaker 2>was going to be flown down. And not only was

0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.440
<v Speaker 2>he going to be flown down for a trial. He

0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.640
<v Speaker 2>was confident he had the job in the bag. How

0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.679
<v Speaker 2>confident you ask? How confident? Sorry, he was so confident.

0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.840
<v Speaker 2>He was so confident he was telling everyone in Brisbane, Hey,

0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:47.800
<v Speaker 2>I've even decided I'll do the job for half a

0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:50.480
<v Speaker 2>million dollars. I'll do it cut price, just to get

0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.040
<v Speaker 2>my foot in the door. And he's telling everybody he's

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.240
<v Speaker 2>going to be the cut price car. Unfortunately for him,

0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.240
<v Speaker 2>my information is Samantha Armitage has gone I don't want

0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.640
<v Speaker 2>cut price car. Well, he can stay in Brisbane and

0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.160
<v Speaker 2>they've got who do you want? And she I don't know,

0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.439
<v Speaker 2>but not the dude that's not even back in himself,

0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.360
<v Speaker 2>the guy that reckons he's worth twenty five percent of Carl.

0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:12.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to hear him like I want someone

0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:15.160
<v Speaker 2>who thinks they're just as good. So Mike Willison is

0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:17.920
<v Speaker 2>getting a look what I will call a stay of

0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:22.520
<v Speaker 2>execution because he's there. He obviously has nothing better to

0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.600
<v Speaker 2>do this week than hang on.

0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.959
<v Speaker 1>And host a very high rating TV show that makes

0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:27.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of money.

0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, and that's it. As much as we

0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.000
<v Speaker 2>can laugh. This is a show that, with its sister

0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.320
<v Speaker 2>programs Today Extra and Weekend Today, it's worth one hundred

0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 2>million dollars. So getting the chemistry right very important, as

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:41.040
<v Speaker 2>you know from that Oli lecture during the week. Matt

0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.680
<v Speaker 2>Stanton does admit Nine knew all year that Karl was leaving.

0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Gets to July. We're talking about one hundred million dollar vehicle.

0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Who have we got lined up? No one? And you

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 2>know what, at the start of this year I wrote

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 2>in media diary that they will wargaming replacements for Carl,

0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.320
<v Speaker 2>and Nine called me and said, you know we're not.

0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.280
<v Speaker 2>We're not. I go, no, come on, it's one hundred

0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:05.480
<v Speaker 2>million dollar franchise. Of course you're wargaming. I don't believe it,

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.559
<v Speaker 2>and they get no, no, seriously, there's no war gaming

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.520
<v Speaker 2>going on. I apologize, no plan. I apologize until last

0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 2>week I called up and said, hey, look, you know

0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.560
<v Speaker 2>when you said you didn't have any plan, I'm sorry.

0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.640
<v Speaker 2>You're right, you weren't doing anything. Oh wow, beggars belief.

0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Jacket, Thank you.

0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Steve Jackson. And it's The Australian's Media Diary. You can

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:33.680
<v Speaker 1>read it right now at the Australian dot com dot

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:34.000
<v Speaker 1>au