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Speaker 1: Hi, Mike Boris, and this is straight talk. Is it

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Speaker 1: an exextential threat to rugby union? Will it last?

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Speaker 2: The fear is that we don't get it right. That's

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Speaker 2: the scary thing about this.

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Speaker 1: Stevie Hall's worn straight talk.

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Speaker 2: Mate.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about a state of

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Speaker 1: rugby union and you're a coach. You were also a

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Speaker 1: player at the highest level, so you can actually speak

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Speaker 1: expertly on this.

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Speaker 2: It isn't going great here in Australia at the professional level.

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Speaker 2: Other levels of the game are great. All we see

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Speaker 2: on TV is really super rugby and Test footy and

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Speaker 2: super rugby is the big problem.

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Speaker 1: What would you do in terms of super rugby?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a big part of me that thinks it's

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Speaker 2: probably run its rays, to be honest, put them in

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Speaker 2: this term. So there's five teams at the moment with

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Speaker 2: a five million dollar salary cap each versus sixteen and

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Speaker 2: r old teams with thirty million dollar salary cap. How

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Speaker 2: are you going to compete on that front? That is

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Speaker 2: probably half the reason why a lot of league fans

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Speaker 2: hate rugby at the moment because our former chairman was

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Speaker 2: out there disrespecting the intelligence of another code like I

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Speaker 2: just thought that was poor taste and rugby has never

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Speaker 2: been about that.

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Speaker 1: Stevie Hall's warning, straight talk mate. Thanks Mark, Thanks well,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen you since. I know you're a the

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Speaker 1: early forties. Now. I haven't seen you since about probably

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Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen around that territory when you were playing

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Speaker 1: for Istramic back in the day, the East Rambick Repside.

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Speaker 1: But you're a Ramdwick boy.

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Speaker 2: We just we merged our rep teams that weekend was

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Speaker 2: on recently. You know. Yeah, my sons at that age

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Speaker 2: at the moment. Actually your son or one of my

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Speaker 2: kids is really thirteen. He didn't make that Raundmick sit unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, that he's going through the same age when

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Speaker 2: I last met you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I sort of I can't remember. You're a

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Speaker 1: back row. I think your back row, yeah yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you've got big tall, much taller than you were there. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When I was at school thirteen to sixteen, he's seventy

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Speaker 2: year twelve. I wasn't allowed to play in the backs

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Speaker 2: in the forward. Sorry, I had to play in the

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Speaker 2: backs at Waverley. I was too short, So I got

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Speaker 2: those years. Have been half back in five eight, which

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Speaker 2: then helped me later in life when I had my

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Speaker 2: growth spurts.

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Speaker 1: So you're you was Trent Language. Was he your territory or.

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Speaker 2: A few years older old? Yeah? Changing was couples old

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Speaker 2: and I was in the surf club and training with Changing,

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Speaker 2: so I know him well.

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Speaker 1: And you're you come from Rugby Union territory and your

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Speaker 1: dad played footy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Have you always been Ramwick?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Heverage so dad Samaruba boy and I grew up

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Speaker 2: at Ramwick. Dad won a few first grade premierships at

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Speaker 2: the center. He finished quite early, by the age of

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Speaker 2: twenty six. He was finished because he was managing the

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Speaker 2: airport for customs. But then as I grew up, I

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Speaker 2: was a couodie won bat for ten years whilst playing

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Speaker 2: league league on a Sunday, Rugby on a Saturday, but

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Speaker 2: mum worked at the New South. I was rugby league

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Speaker 2: the whole way. I was from about the age of

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Speaker 2: five to fifteen, and that was I saw you, Johnny

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Speaker 2: qualen of you and that was sort of the era

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Speaker 2: that I grew up in. I was halftime entertainment at

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Speaker 2: every second Grand Final and got tickets to all the

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Speaker 2: big games. So I'm a Tiger's tragic. I don't know how.

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Speaker 2: I actually do know. I got given a number one

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Speaker 2: jersey when I was a kid, Austraian number one. That

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Speaker 2: was Gary Jack, my map of Souse, and he's been

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Speaker 2: a wavery boy. But I was a Tiger's tragic and

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Speaker 2: I did league in union all the way through and

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Speaker 2: then I got to fifteen. It was a bit it

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Speaker 2: was had to sort of pick one and I think

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Speaker 2: I just suited rugby. The game flowed a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: In those days.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it flowed lots to the point where

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Speaker 2: I I could read the game a little bit better

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Speaker 2: in rugby and that was probably what helped me. I

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Speaker 2: didn't really have a position in the league. I was

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Speaker 2: a hooker, halfback lock. We was in rugby. I got

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Speaker 2: to be a flanker and that was that hybrid position.

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Speaker 2: And back then flankers just used to chase the ball.

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Speaker 2: It's different now because of the way the modern day is,

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Speaker 2: but it did both and still enjoy both.

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Speaker 1: So I wouldn't mind going back to that time, just

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Speaker 1: in terms of style, so and just to talk about

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Speaker 1: the way the world's changed. And I was worth explaining

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Speaker 1: a lot of rugby league kids if they went to

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Speaker 1: private schools, particularly around the East Suburbs areas and Low

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Speaker 1: and ll Sure they played league on Sundays and union

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Speaker 1: on Saturdays sometimes Friday night, yeah, basically, and the schools

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Speaker 1: and they played rugby for their school on the Saturday

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Speaker 1: went and played you were at Waverley went and played

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Speaker 1: in the CIS and other kids playing the GPS, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: all the different competitions, and then you were probably played

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Speaker 1: club rugby as well, and that could have been on

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Speaker 1: a Friday night or during the week. So ordinarily you'd

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Speaker 1: be training nearly every night of the week for one

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Speaker 1: or the other. You'd be playing club rugby, which was

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Speaker 1: a short season, but then there was rep rugby, and

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Speaker 1: then you were playing school rugby, which is sort of

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Speaker 1: a short seasons like six games or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and then you're playing rugby league on the Sunday. Even then,

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Speaker 1: there was a fair bit of tension between what schools

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Speaker 1: expected from you in terms of playing rugby and what

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Speaker 1: rugby league expected from you in terms of playing rugby

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Speaker 1: in particular and in particular training, and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure on the kids give up rugby league. Do

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Speaker 1: you remember that?

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Speaker 2: I do remember, and essentially like when I was in

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Speaker 2: year twelve, I played in the first and year twelve

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Speaker 2: I couldn't play league in the holidays. I'd to sneak

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Speaker 2: off a couple of games for the one bats. I

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Speaker 2: didn't want wavery to find out because there was a

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Speaker 2: strict where you couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Why, Ah, what do you think that's about.

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Speaker 2: I think it's ConTroll thing, to be honest, it's gone

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Speaker 2: back that to be fair. Now, I now know that

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Speaker 2: schools are encouraging kids to go and play club rugby

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Speaker 2: and league.

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Speaker 1: That's because they teaching about to tackle.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Like there are benefits of doing both, absolutely so.

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Speaker 2: And you see the kids that around fourteen fifteen, and

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Speaker 2: I see now my son's thirteen. I see the kids

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Speaker 2: that are that are better in almost every aspect of

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Speaker 2: the game. They're the ones that are playing league union,

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Speaker 2: some of them are even playing AFL. I think being

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Speaker 2: able to being restricted to who you play for and

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Speaker 2: what you do outside of your school hours, I don't think

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Speaker 2: that's a healthy thing for kids.

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Speaker 1: Right now, you're a coach and you're coaching around wick

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Speaker 1: and I just wanted to lay that down as a

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Speaker 1: foundation straight up, because I want to talk to you

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Speaker 1: about rugby union and the state of rugby union and

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Speaker 1: being a coach. You can actually speak expertally on this

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Speaker 1: as not just because you were also a player rugby

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Speaker 1: union player at the highest level, but in terms of coaching.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about coaching and where

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Speaker 1: the rugby union game's gone. I can say to you honestly,

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Speaker 1: back in the early eighties, I was an avid fan

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Speaker 1: of rugby union as well as rugby league. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I sponsored the rugby union side for a number of years,

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Speaker 1: which that was my very first sponsorship but ever did

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Speaker 1: But then it changed. Rugby unions changed me and I

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Speaker 1: I have real interest in watching rugby game of rage

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Speaker 1: union today, not just because I'm a Roagay league fans,

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Speaker 1: but the game's changed. It has and I want to

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Speaker 1: go back and ask you if you could go back

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Speaker 1: to your your rugby union days when you're playing, when

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Speaker 1: you're a kid playing you know, from Ramwick, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and or playing for Waverley whoever it was, But could

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Speaker 1: you explain to me what the game was like then?

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Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is in terms of flow,

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Speaker 1: lack of interruptions, less rules, a lot of ball playing,

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Speaker 1: not just about kicking, et cetera. Just give us a

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Speaker 1: picture of what it was like when you fell in

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Speaker 1: love with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I grew up watching the you know, the great

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Speaker 2: teams of Ramwick in the eighties and nineties. So that's

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Speaker 2: what I learned exactly, like the Pointer Evens, the campez Is,

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Speaker 2: the Knoxes, the names just go on and on, honestly,

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Speaker 2: So they had the game, had a way of trying

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Speaker 2: to keep the ball off the ground. It was about

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Speaker 2: continuity of play that what does that mean? You'd be

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Speaker 2: able to run and stand and set up them all

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Speaker 2: and keep playing. Now you see the ball gat now

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Speaker 2: I reckon. The biggest difference is it's you run at

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Speaker 2: faces now you used to run at spaces, And there's

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Speaker 2: a big difference. Like tacklings evolved. So we were taught

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Speaker 2: as kids as a back rower chase the ball just

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Speaker 2: be two or three meters behind the ball the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Now because defense is improved and people are better at

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Speaker 2: still in the football as in poach like they think

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Speaker 2: of George Smith, Phil Ward, David Pocock in their peak.

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Speaker 2: If they if someone was isolated at any stage of

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Speaker 2: the game, a good on baller would get over the

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Speaker 2: ball and steal it or get a penalty, so that

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Speaker 2: would be most likely a stoppage. So players evolved to

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Speaker 2: become really good over the ball. And I have this

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Speaker 2: argument with my dad constantly about why the game has

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Speaker 2: so much kicking if you don't kick the ball. So

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Speaker 2: if you run the ball at the wrong part of

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Speaker 2: the field or you're not you don't have enough support

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Speaker 2: play around you. Just try and put in a league term.

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Speaker 2: If you run and you're not near your dummy half

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Speaker 2: and you get tackled not near you dumby half, you

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Speaker 2: lose the ball.

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Speaker 1: So you've got to be because they have better skills

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Speaker 1: are taking away offensively.

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Speaker 2: People are just better. It used to be like George

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Speaker 2: Smith changed the game because he was number seven. He

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Speaker 2: was an on baller, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 2: people were like, well, it doesn't have to be just

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Speaker 2: George Smith. Hookers become on ballers.

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Speaker 1: What's on balling right?

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Speaker 2: Getting over the ball? Still in the football, getting that

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Speaker 2: sort of jack they call it a jackal or a

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Speaker 2: pill for position, And it was typically twenty years ago,

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Speaker 2: it was probably one player in the field was good

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Speaker 2: on the ball. Now there's ten to twelve. If you're

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Speaker 2: not good on the ball and you can't slop the

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Speaker 2: rock where you can't steal the ball, you get picked.

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Speaker 2: So the game is evolve massively on that front. But

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Speaker 2: there's also the fear of a player losing the ball.

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Speaker 2: If in doubt, players will now run to someone and

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Speaker 2: go on reset and try and get a new phase, another.

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Speaker 1: Arch whereas they go to ground, they.

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Speaker 2: Go to ground and that's right, they place it back

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Speaker 2: And as I said, as a back rower, I just

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Speaker 2: used to chase the ball, and now a lot of

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Speaker 2: background as a coach to be you know, you go

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Speaker 2: from this line out and you stay on this side

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Speaker 2: of the field. We want one background on this side,

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Speaker 2: we want one on the other, and we want one

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Speaker 2: in the middle. So you kind of spread out a

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Speaker 2: little bit more in they call it shape in shape

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Speaker 2: and pods and I'm probably talking another language too, but

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Speaker 2: to become way more structured, and I think the scrums

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Speaker 2: are really slow part of the game at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I think back to the years you watched it. It

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Speaker 2: was and you don't have to go and watch footage.

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Speaker 2: Whistles blown. Eight forwards get up and they'se going back

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Speaker 2: a scrumb and it's almost if the contest happens once

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Speaker 2: the ball, once they've hit their shoulders. And that used

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Speaker 2: to take ten to twenty seconds to get that set.

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Speaker 2: We're taking ninety seconds to get a scrum set now

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Speaker 2: and then there's resets.

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Speaker 1: Was that is it more about safety?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they made the gap really big. About my era

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Speaker 2: of the gap was about a meter, and that was

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Speaker 2: there's like two cars crashing into the meter, a lot

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Speaker 2: of damage getting under players, a lot of sort of

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Speaker 2: retirement from spine injuries and not necessarily like disability injuries,

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Speaker 2: but just more wear and tear. So they tried to

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Speaker 2: sort of shorten the gap, but it still takes a

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Speaker 2: long time. It's a bit too technical to make it

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Speaker 2: too quick.

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Speaker 1: Shorten the gap in terms of before they engage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they want their gap to be like they

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Speaker 2: used to be like that. Then they brought it to

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Speaker 2: there and you go back to the eighties, the gap

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Speaker 2: was sort of like that far away.

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Speaker 1: So that's interesting. So that that's actually something that the

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Speaker 1: I don't know whoever it is the referee or whoever

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Speaker 1: controls the play safety, they've actually said to the referees,

250
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Speaker 1: you don't let them engage or get ready to engage

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Speaker 1: until they're close enough that they're not going to cause

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Speaker 1: effectively too much damage to each other. Because when you

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Speaker 1: think about it, there's probably a ton wait close enough.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, on most packs are just under a ton. International

255
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Speaker 2: packs about nine undred yos, and they sort of.

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Speaker 1: Train to have as much force as possible and things

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Speaker 1: can go wrong so quickly. Yeah, so that's a place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah's play safety, but it's I haven't solved it, to

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Speaker 2: be fair like, You've got to look back at what

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Speaker 2: has worked in the past. And and I'm the same

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Speaker 2: as you. I'll turn on a game and I'll get

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Speaker 2: really frustrated. You can kill a game of rugby and fight.

263
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Speaker 2: You can lose four to five minutes. At the end

264
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Speaker 2: of a game, you think about it, your side has

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Speaker 2: just gone up by three points the opposition. In rugby league,

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Speaker 2: that's probably what two sets of each five minutes. You

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Speaker 2: know you're going to have a crack. In rugby, you

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Speaker 2: can manipulate the laws or how they're interpreted to kill

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Speaker 2: a clock, and that's that's the disappointing aspect of the game.

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Speaker 1: So if when you were playing, what is it about?

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Speaker 1: I soon remember the term back in the eighties running rugby.

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Speaker 1: That's sort of what's I found that attractive. You know,

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Speaker 1: get the campezes and all, they're all the wingers to

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Speaker 1: get the ball, actually get the ball. They weren't running,

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Speaker 1: they weren't running to chase a kick or something, but

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Speaker 1: that was actually getting out of them.

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Speaker 2: There was more space for them because if you go

278
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Speaker 2: back again look at some footage, one ruck would be

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Speaker 2: at the moment. It's about how you can win your

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Speaker 2: u with the least amount of numbers as possible. So

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Speaker 2: you want the ball carrier plus two, and you go

282
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Speaker 2: back and look at footage in the nineties, it's ball

283
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Speaker 2: carry plus four, one, two, three, maybe a couple more

284
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Speaker 2: forgeress get out of the way. They get out of

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Speaker 2: the way, so there was more space out wider. But

286
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Speaker 2: now those people that just come through to get out

287
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Speaker 2: of the way, they're not there. They're out in the

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Speaker 2: same place that the centers or the wingers want to be.

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Speaker 1: So there's lots of lots of defensive coverage.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like people say, one of the things that

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Speaker 2: could solve rugby's problems, you could drop it to third end.

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Speaker 2: You honestly could. Yeah, And but but people that for

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Speaker 2: whatever reason, that's too much like rugby league, we can't

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Speaker 2: consider it, or we widen the fields. It's probably a

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Speaker 2: lot difficult to widen fields all around the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: probably easy to take. But the it's never been considered

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Speaker 2: because I think they would feel it's jumping into rugby

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Speaker 2: league territory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it's but it's a it's a big game,

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Speaker 1: a lot of followers globally I'm talking about and but

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Speaker 1: it's losing followers and its losing therefore therefore losing attractiveness

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Speaker 1: in terms of revenue and sportships, and therefore here.

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Speaker 2: In particular here in here in his on a Yeah,

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Speaker 2: globally it's going great, like World Cups are fantastic women's

305
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Speaker 2: like there's so many aspects of the game that is

306
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Speaker 2: really healthy. But you read Australian media in news Court,

307
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Speaker 2: Fox Sports used to have the game. Since they've lost

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Speaker 2: it then they're not on the stand now that's on

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Speaker 2: stand now. But it's not a positive media. It's not

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Speaker 2: positive in the media at the moment rugby but it

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Speaker 2: isn't going great here in Australia at the professional level.

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Speaker 2: Other levels of the game are great, but what we

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Speaker 2: see on TV. All we see on TV is really

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Speaker 2: super rugby and Test footy, and super rugby is probably

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Speaker 2: the big one that's third in US. Test footy will

316
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Speaker 2: always be healthy. But the Wallabies haven't been successful, so

317
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Speaker 2: we're sort of seen and we're reacting to their performance

318
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Speaker 2: of late. That's why the game is viewed as if

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Speaker 2: it's not that healthier because the Wallabies aren't going well.

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Speaker 2: Super rugby is the big problem.

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Speaker 1: Why would you say that the Wallabies aren't going well? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's just I mean, is it because of

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Speaker 1: ten years ago? The kids who are growing up and

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Speaker 1: who have now become Wallabies, they have not been done

325
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Speaker 1: of the right skills or what's the case.

326
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Speaker 2: No, like the international markets become very competitive, Like during

327
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Speaker 2: my playing era, you could have got to Europe at

328
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Speaker 2: the start your career, a couple of people going to

329
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,360
Speaker 2: France and a few people were starting to enter the

330
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,360
Speaker 2: Japanese league. Now like those markets are huge USA. He's

331
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Speaker 2: got competitions, so that's not the global market is one

332
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Speaker 2: of the reasons I would say, And again this is

333
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Speaker 2: really polarizing because we've just cut a team as in

334
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,560
Speaker 2: Melbourne Rebels, we just not had went broke. They went

335
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 2: broke and they've been broke. They've never been a financially

336
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 2: successful model. So the game has been pouring money into

337
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 2: and it's not just hurt Melbourne's hurting New South Wales.

338
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,400
Speaker 2: It's hurt the Brumbies, It's hurt everyone, and it's hurt

339
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 2: Perth like person. I got Twiggy Forest there, who's obviously

340
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,800
Speaker 2: a very successful backer of the side. So we've never

341
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 2: had the talent to sustain five elites to rugby teams.

342
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 2: And when I think we brought in Melbourne because it

343
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:55,560
Speaker 2: was private money, it was Harold Mitchell, and I think

344
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 2: the game view past a couple years ago, but down

345
00:14:57,960 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 2: he held the license for a couple of years. Once

346
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,840
Speaker 2: he realized it wasn't working, he handed the license back

347
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,120
Speaker 2: over to Rugby Australia and they've been propping up the

348
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,080
Speaker 2: Rebels for a long long time. I just don't think

349
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 2: we've had the talent at that elite level for five teams.

350
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Speaker 2: When you think put it in this terms, there's five

351
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 2: teams at the moment with a five moon dollar salary

352
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,000
Speaker 2: cap each versus sixteen RL teams with thirty moon dollar

353
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Speaker 2: salary cap. How are you going to compete on that front.

354
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, why isn't they don't have the time, because is

355
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 1: it because the pool of talent where the kids grow

356
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,680
Speaker 1: up in playing footy like is so still restricted to

357
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: private schools.

358
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 2: I think that I think the talent like, you've got

359
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 2: kids at the schools that I went to, Waverly, THEES,

360
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 2: the GPS, there's there's probably a dozen AFL players now

361
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,560
Speaker 2: that have come from Sales and GPS as non AFL players.

362
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 2: They've gone and got the best locks. The kids that

363
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:48,760
Speaker 2: are going to be one ninety one to ninety five

364
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 2: centimeters AFL teams have gone out. They've just got great

365
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 2: recruitment tools. So all these young players, Like it's hard

366
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 2: to get good tour players, a lot of them playing AFL,

367
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 2: We've got enough good players for a really good club

368
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 2: competition and that's I think club foot is excellent. It's

369
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 2: healthy and it's thriving. But just at super rugby level,

370
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 2: the five teams haven't been performing enough against the Kiwi

371
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 2: teams and it definitely hasn't helped the Wallaby performance. You

372
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 2: can't you can't argue that one. In the last the

373
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,640
Speaker 2: performance over the last ten years since we went from

374
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 2: three teams it was Queensland, New South Wales and the

375
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,680
Speaker 2: Brumbies and then we went to Perth and then we

376
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,080
Speaker 2: rushed to Melbourne. A couple of these after Perth, and

377
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: that was when you notice the player drain. It was

378
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,760
Speaker 2: probably it was probably easy for players to get contracts

379
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 2: and they weren't going through that club system and getting

380
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,200
Speaker 2: the twenty thirty forty games of club footy where they're

381
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,440
Speaker 2: getting bashed up by a thirty year old, you know, whiley'

382
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 2: getting hardened by playing second grade and third grade. A

383
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 2: lot of kids were coming out of schools and because

384
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 2: of the competition the offers from league, it was I've

385
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 2: got an offer from South I've gone off from Roosters

386
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 2: or Western forth. So I'm going to make a big offer.

387
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to stay in rugby and they'll get into

388
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:01,200
Speaker 2: Super Rugby probably a little bit quicker than it previously.

389
00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,200
Speaker 1: And because they weren't hardened enough or at least experienced enough,

390
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: I think so to play that level.

391
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then they weren't playing enough games. Super rugby

392
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 2: is a sixteen game season and they weren't all getting

393
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 2: sent back to play club footy and you go from

394
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,160
Speaker 2: why not, I don't know academies programs, all that sort

395
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 2: of off season tours and all that sort of stuff

396
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 2: and players being relocated to different parts of the country.

397
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think that's a big reason. Like the

398
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 2: number of games you mentioned before, like forty game season

399
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,400
Speaker 2: for a kid is what you should be doing. Yeah,

400
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 2: and I reckon at professional level you could go and

401
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,159
Speaker 2: do a survey. You've probably got maybe twenty percent of

402
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 2: players who aren't the Wallabies. I'll use last year as

403
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,000
Speaker 2: an example. I got thirty minutes out of one professional

404
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,399
Speaker 2: player after the Super Rugby for the Ramicks season, got

405
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 2: one player for thirty minutes.

406
00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 1: You can't say them you've got a gun play, No.

407
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,680
Speaker 2: They've got a one too. The game needs and to

408
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,600
Speaker 2: play World couple years a bit of an anomaly because

409
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,359
Speaker 2: they kept they were sort of wrapped up in Cotton

410
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 2: wall They're in training camps and I don't expect to

411
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 2: get the Wallabies, like the Wallabies are playing there, but

412
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 2: the fringe players who were you know, they're following the

413
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,920
Speaker 2: Wallabies around and they're used for training sessions at the Wallabies.

414
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: And as opponent, you've got.

415
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: To squad a thirty five traveling round. It's like the

416
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,159
Speaker 2: Origin taking two sides, and then Trent Robbins had not

417
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,440
Speaker 2: been able to get access to the reserves the day

418
00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 2: after or the day before a Wallaby game because they're

419
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 2: finding New Zealand next week and they've got a week

420
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 2: off and then we're going to South Africa and I'm

421
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 2: not sure about this play. So there's just always been

422
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 2: that issue of not letting players get back and playing

423
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,520
Speaker 2: enough club footy after Super rugby.

424
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 1: So it's it's mid part of me saying this says

425
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 1: like a mess. To be honest, he no, because.

426
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 2: I've got offender at that. Now that professional side of

427
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:39,879
Speaker 2: the game, it is like and you.

428
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,440
Speaker 1: Would say professionals, not at the club rugby level.

429
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,600
Speaker 2: Now the club rugby is awesome, like the perception of

430
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: the modern day player, and that I got a complete shock,

431
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 2: and in a good way. Of these guys get paid nothing.

432
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 2: They train three nights a week, they get their weights

433
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 2: in beforehand. Some of them are getting armed till midnight.

434
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 2: They're finishing train at eight thirty. They're doing their weights

435
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,479
Speaker 2: till ten o'clock. They're getting up. They're going to work

436
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 2: there on the tour at six am. They're the heartbeat

437
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,040
Speaker 2: of the game. And that's where I get to see

438
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 2: that now, and club footy is always junior footy, women's

439
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,479
Speaker 2: forty seven. So many elements of the game is thriving

440
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 2: and going really well, but we're just not seeing enough

441
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 2: of it because we're seeing Super Rugby and Test footy

442
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: on TV.

443
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: What would you do in terms of Super Rugby.

444
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a big part of me that thinks it's

445
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:23,959
Speaker 2: probably run its rays, to be honest.

446
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting.

447
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Super Rugby only came out in the

448
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: mid nineties because of pay TV. Prior to that, if

449
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,439
Speaker 2: you played for New South Wales it was like Origin.

450
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: You maybe got three games a year, you got a

451
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,919
Speaker 2: tour in New Zealand, maybe Argentina. Then we started this

452
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 2: Super Ugby with New Zealand, Australia and South Africa, and

453
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,639
Speaker 2: I think the audience I was a kid, but everyone

454
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 2: just was so excited about, you know, the best players

455
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 2: in South Africa being in Sydney one week, and I

456
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,520
Speaker 2: just think over time it's probably a little bit stale.

457
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 2: And I don't know if club footy has always been.

458
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 2: They've tried all these different comps in between they've tried

459
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,880
Speaker 2: a couple of national club comps, petitions, but they've never

460
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 2: tried competitions consistently with the jerseys that we're all familiar with,

461
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 2: and everyone in the region has a you could be

462
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,879
Speaker 2: an East fan, you could be a Gordon fan, you

463
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 2: could be a Brothers fan, or a University Queensland. Those

464
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,520
Speaker 2: jerseys and teams and supporters have been around for one

465
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 2: hundred years, but we've never given them a crack to

466
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 2: be in a national competition. We've tried all these different

467
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,200
Speaker 2: national competitions, but because we didn't want to alienate or

468
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 2: offend some teams, because you can't have every club in

469
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 2: a national camp, We've decided to start a national camp

470
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,680
Speaker 2: with eight new teams, eight new jerseys, the Sydney Rays,

471
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 2: New South Vals Country which isn't New South VAL's Country,

472
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,680
Speaker 2: and Western Sydney Rams and all these teams that none

473
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,240
Speaker 2: of us have any affiliation with. So that hasn't worked.

474
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 2: In terms of the Super Rugby, that's a really tough

475
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 2: one because South Africa gone, they've gone up to the

476
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 2: Northern Hemisphere now and they're playing in a great competition

477
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,480
Speaker 2: with the Welsh there gallicly with the Welsh, the Irish

478
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 2: and the Scots, and they're now thriving and it's help

479
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: South African rugby. I lived in America for a couple

480
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 2: of years in twenty twenty and twenty one. I was

481
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: coaching rugby over there, and I looked at what they

482
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 2: were doing with their what they do with football or

483
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 2: NFL or Gridin' sorry, I Reckon, we could copy something

484
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 2: very similar Friday nights. We'll put it this way. I

485
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 2: don't watch my school play. I can't. I'm coaching Ramick

486
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: at the same time, so I don't. Your audience is

487
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,800
Speaker 2: fighting against each other all the time, so I can't

488
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 2: watch Waverley play. But in America you can watch high

489
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: school play because they play Friday nights. So you could

490
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: run a good Friday night competition and you could still

491
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 2: go down there, and if you're an East fan, you

492
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: could go and watch East the next day and all

493
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,360
Speaker 2: those supporters that win and watch Scott's Verst Cranbrook, or

494
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 2: they could go down and also watch East Verst Gordon

495
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,359
Speaker 2: on a Saturday. And you could put your pro footy

496
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 2: on a Sunday like the NFL do, plus a couple

497
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,040
Speaker 2: like a Thursday night and Monday night. So grid On

498
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 2: in America is never competing against each other for bums

499
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 2: on seats or eyeballs. And they've got multiple channels covering

500
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 2: It's not just Channel nine and Fox, it's not just Stand.

501
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: They've got like five of Usit in five or six networks,

502
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 2: Like one has a Thursday night game. There's no Friday

503
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: night professional game football in America, Saturdays or college so

504
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 2: you can watch everything as a football fan in the States,

505
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 2: You've got to pick something I can't watch. I've got

506
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 2: to watch Roundwick, I can't watch Waverley, and then I've

507
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: got a rush home to get watch the wartaz you're

508
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 2: on at five point thirty in New Zealand. All in

509
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 2: the space of three hours.

510
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 1: It's finishes there because you get a Scott's Joey's game. Yeah,

511
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: and like it's packed.

512
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's packed, that's right.

513
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: But if the if the bit of USA playing Ramwick

514
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: on the same at the same time, someone's got to

515
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: make a decision, right and neither one will be backed

516
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: or they're going to go to one and not go

517
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: to the other one. Yeah, but it sounds like we've

518
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: got an administration problem here. Yeah, it sounds like a

519
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,719
Speaker 1: decision making problem at the top, and no one's prepared

520
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: to make decisions. Is the reason they have the Super

521
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: Rugby is The reason they have that though, is because

522
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: they thought it was a product they could sell in

523
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,720
Speaker 1: terms of broadcasting.

524
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 2: So that's where the money came in from. Yeah, I

525
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: think it started. It was sort of like a Super

526
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 2: League scenario. Yeah, there was going to be another competition

527
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,680
Speaker 2: after the ninety five World Cup and guys like Phil

528
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 2: Kerns will speak better to this, but they're all brought

529
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 2: into meetings are they're all about to walk and sign

530
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,880
Speaker 2: with another competition and then Super Rugby is born out

531
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 2: of pay TV Fox Sports back in it a long

532
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,159
Speaker 2: long time ago, and so it was it was a

533
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: revenue raiser and it helped the Wallabies because we had

534
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: three teams and these guys went from being amateur to

535
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: professional and it helped us win a ninety nine World

536
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 2: Cup and we were sort of the leaders in the

537
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 2: world of rugby. And then he made the finally No.

538
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: Three and then it's sort of over time gradually just

539
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: Yea disappeared into where it is now.

540
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 1: Do you think it's the same issue in New Zealand?

541
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 2: Then? Yeah, New Zealand's a weird one, like they they're

542
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 2: going through they've got private equity money in New Zealand

543
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 2: and so I know they've got They've had some really

544
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 2: big challenges of late, they've had potential threats of other competitions.

545
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,879
Speaker 2: So that's when you're not to concern when you're watching

546
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: really good these are the best players in the world.

547
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 2: You're watching the Auckland Blues play against the act Brumby's

548
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 2: round game and you're getting ten thousand people there. The

549
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 2: Rumbies haven't lost. The Rumbies have lost like one or

550
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,959
Speaker 2: two home games. I'm going to say no more than

551
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,719
Speaker 2: four home games in the last three or four years,

552
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 2: and that home final on the weekend and there would

553
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 2: have been I say eight thousand people there. The Raiders

554
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 2: will go there the next day and they'll get sixteen

555
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 2: or eighteen thousand. That used to be the exact opposite.

556
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: Well, last last yesterday on Monday, we had Cannaby based

557
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: on play the Bulldogs play Power. Rememberre's forty five thousand

558
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 1: people there at ac cour like a club games.

559
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 2: This one's the other day forty two thousand.

560
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 1: Amazing.

561
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we can get back to that.

562
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: But what is it. I mean, there's something they've.

563
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: Got to win. They've got to win. And again that

564
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,919
Speaker 2: goes back to the number of teams and the players

565
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 2: that are getting spread out, and players are getting put

566
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: in these teams a little bit too early. Because there's

567
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: now five teams, you've sort of doubled the number of

568
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 2: professional contracts. Well they have. They've gone from three teams

569
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: to two plus a seven's program, so they've doubled the

570
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: number of professional contracts in a ten year period. We

571
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 2: haven't been producing. We haven't got a high number of participants.

572
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: If anything, we've been plotoed because AFL and League and

573
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: Soccer we're working hard to get our junior players or

574
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 2: they're working hard to get access, so we haven't had

575
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: the talent pool to go to five teams. That's hurt performance.

576
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: People aren't silly that they want to go and see winners,

577
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 2: and they want to go and see a good style

578
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 2: of footy. The war Tar has got now they didn't

579
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 2: have a good couple of years, but they're also three

580
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: or four wins away from getting back up to twenty

581
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 2: five thirty thousand people. Sidney's fickle, but do.

582
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: You think, well, then I don't know who it was.

583
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: I guess it is the AU, but they they did

584
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: make an attempt the previous the previous administration of the AU,

585
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 1: not the current administrator for war, but I'm talking about

586
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: the previous administration of the AU. They went to Joseph Suali,

587
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: or at least to his manager, and they're paying him

588
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: to join rugby union, which is next year one point

589
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: six a year. I mean, is that an attempt to

590
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: sort of glamorize rugby union and try and bring back

591
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: the supporters.

592
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a reflection of the previous administrator.

593
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: It was a media player, like, he's a great talent,

594
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 2: he's a rugby boy. Previously he's a king's boy. He's both. Yeah.

595
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 2: I actually I was coaching the I was his seventh

596
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: and he came in as a fifteen year old and

597
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: did a session against us and was just like I

598
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: went to tim Oles, she was their coach, So can

599
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 2: we take him to I think we're playing in Dubai.

600
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 2: I said no, I'm not allowed. He's too young. He

601
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 2: was fifteen and he was ready to play. He was

602
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: that good. Yeah. I think it's been a bit of

603
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: as an ego negotiation, to be honest, and I don't

604
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 2: think it was. I'm really happy he's coming to the game,

605
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: but I'm also a bit fearful that the pressure that

606
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: will be put on him because the game can't afford

607
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: that salary.

608
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 1: How has it worked, Like, if I'm in the team, the.

609
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: Players are good like that, I think players like I

610
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to offend players. No, no, no,

611
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: I think.

612
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 1: What about if I'm going to negotiate my contract.

613
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: Well, that's what's happening players in that position.

614
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: He's at one point six, he hasn't played rugb Union

615
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: Sea at school.

616
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: It hasn't just cost the game one point six. It's

617
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 2: cost the game a lot more because plays just in

618
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 2: position like Mark and nolanyass now gone to the roosters.

619
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: Jorgensen young kid who could have gone the roosters like

620
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: these are the same.

621
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: Position Jorganson's sign up.

622
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but they've all gone in and the agent's

623
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 2: all gone in and said, right, well he's now he's

624
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: one point six my player.

625
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: Well as we're starting boy now five or six, you know.

626
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: So it's definitely it won't hurt. He'll be really well

627
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: accepted from a playing group in rugby, Rugby great like that.

628
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: It'll just be the constant media scrutiny that he's already

629
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: get in it'll be that And I just don't know

630
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: if I just hope it's an enjoyable experience for him,

631
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: but he could be a superstar of the game. But

632
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: at the same time, one point six million bucks and

633
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: Rugby astraightia, I think they'll parayed off like a fifty

634
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: or sixty million dollars a year. They've only just they've

635
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 2: got no money. They borrowed eighty million dollars. So let's

636
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: say they're operating off fifty million bucks a year. You've

637
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 2: got one point six million dollars at fifty going to

638
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: one player.

639
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, and then everybody else is

640
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:40,439
Speaker 1: going to go up from there. So they're all going

641
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: to say, well, that's one point six on one point

642
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 1: one or on one point two, or I'm more than

643
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm currently more than what I'm more than i'm currently getting,

644
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: So are you paying more?

645
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: And the scariest thing about all of these negotiations for

646
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: players is if Rugby straight don't pay it, Panasonic in

647
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 2: Japan will pay it. Some tory to lose to Lon Northampton,

648
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 2: will they paid this some money? The paying money most

649
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: people in Australian rugby could be getting more money elsewhere.

650
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 2: Oh really, Yeah, that's the scary thing about this, Like

651
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 2: the overseas market.

652
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: He's so much stronger, Like when you say you just

653
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: mentioned some franchise, But is that because of the conversion

654
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 1: of the dollar or.

655
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 2: The probably ownly they' got largest salary caps, they've got

656
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 2: bigger TV deals, Like there's there's money in the game

657
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 2: of rugby. Yeah, just just not here.

658
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 1: So we just lost another one of our players to

659
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: Japanese rugby rusters half and yeah, and I remember Craig

660
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 1: win Wing played there for a long time and it's

661
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: one of the things I found quite interesting is that

662
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: when you told me that he didn't play many games.

663
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: I was going to say, and it's sort of preserved

664
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: for one hundred percent right now.

665
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: Body was good.

666
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 2: The Japanese season is probably a six game trial, eight

667
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: to twelve game season. Maybe cut the game playoff. You're

668
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 2: doing fifteen to twenty games like that, or you're doing

669
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: thirty games and dummy half for the roost? Is that again, Graves?

670
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 2: So you do a lot of guys do like they

671
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: go there and the Japanese model is actually quite good.

672
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 2: It's businesses. It's company owned and there's employees and the locals.

673
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: The locals are playing. They come out of college, they

674
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: the good rugby players and then they get jobs for life.

675
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: So they got half the club amateur. They work, they

676
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: train in the morning, they put the suit on, they

677
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: go and work for the company Toyota or Panasonic or Cannon,

678
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: and then they come back in after work and the

679
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: pros join them after hours, and they trained like club teams.

680
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 1: Does if did you ever think yourself that you should

681
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 1: have gone up to Japan to.

682
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,719
Speaker 2: I had a couple of chances, but there was always

683
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 2: that rule that if you were playing overseas, you can

684
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: get picked for Australia, and I just always like no,

685
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: I just would never have felt comfortable. And as it

686
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: turns out, I never played that many games for Australia,

687
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: but I just wouldn't have still did Yeah, I played it,

688
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 2: but I wouldn't have. I just know what I was like.

689
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have been happy with myself if I moved

690
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: over wherever and I was playing great foota and I

691
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 2: couldn't play Hey well they did play play well, yeah,

692
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: like the offers were always better. But now I never

693
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 2: played overseas. I missed a few straight with an injury,

694
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: so I sort of missed about three and a half

695
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: of straight so that might have been the time when

696
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: I did go overseas. But young family, I was sort

697
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: of always I don't know, I was always happy playing here.

698
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: So when I look at rugby league players who go

699
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: off to play rugby union, what is the I mean, say,

700
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: but Williams is probably one of the greatest examples, But

701
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: what is the attraction part from the fact he's just

702
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: a pretty skilled dude. What's the general attraction for rugby

703
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: union to bring in a rugby league player? Is it

704
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: because of the defense pattern that rugby league sort of builds.

705
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: No, I think athletically, like, they're not very they're not

706
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 2: dissimilar games. If you can teach someone the basics of

707
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: the ruck and you can and a lot of these guys,

708
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: like I did say, Joe Money might have played as

709
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: a kid. So a lot of guys and girls his

710
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: day and age are playing both. As a young Crichton

711
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: for example, yeah, exactly, Like He's probably the difficulting with

712
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: Angus is he was a back row or a center

713
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 2: in union. So when he sort of looked at coming

714
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: back to rugby. No one really knows what he is.

715
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: And that's big too. Yeah, I mean he's got bigger,

716
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: very big. Yeah, yeah, he said. I think there's very

717
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 2: the professional that they're the best athletes. Some of them

718
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 2: are the best athletes in the world. I think you

719
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: can look at who they are as the character, as people,

720
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: and if they're a good league player and they've got

721
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: a desired to learn rugby, it'll work out for him

722
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: and vice versa. You know, like not necessarily too many big,

723
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: tight forwards because of the body shape, but almost anyone

724
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: from number six through to fifteen in rugby could, I

725
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: reckon could turn out to be a decent league player.

726
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: Is that when you say six to fifteen, you're talking.

727
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: About back rows on the back roun.

728
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: But one of the things I know is about rugby input.

729
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: They're big, Yeah, especially the front row is shorter and wider.

730
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: Probably couldn't probably don't have.

731
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: The league, they wouldn't be able to do it.

732
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't have leagues. But the guys behind them, they're

733
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: not only tall.

734
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: But they're big locks. One hundred and twenty ko much

735
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 2: six eight. That's the sort of standard world sized lock

736
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: is six 't eight one twenty.

737
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: How do those individuals convert into.

738
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: Rugby league then, nah, they wouldn't. There's very few examples

739
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: of those. There's more examples of those guys being unsuccessful

740
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 2: over the US just because the up and back nature

741
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: of the on side up and back in ten and

742
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: ad middedly like the big front railers in rugby, they

743
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: could trim down. But typically speaking like that's why rugby

744
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 2: is such a unique game. There is a sport within

745
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: a sport, scrummaging. And I appreciate scrumaging way more now

746
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: as a coach because I was in scrums, I was

747
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: at the back. I didn't didn't do as much as

748
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: others did, but you learn the importance. So you can

749
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: win and lose a game on a good or bad

750
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: scrum in the modern Dave rugby. And so I do

751
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: love the contest that rugby provides there. But in terms

752
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: of athletic ability, those guys that would be too big

753
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: elite for them to go from rugby union to.

754
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: Relieve and do you think therefore, but there's is that

755
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: part of the downfall of rugby union. I mean in

756
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: terms of a spectator sport. This is too about Australia

757
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: obviously because other parts of the world maybe not the case.

758
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: But in rugby league, everyone's pretty much the same apar

759
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: from your half back and maybe a fullback, but generally speaking,

760
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: your outside backs and you most of your forwards except

761
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: maybe the hooker doumby half, they're all pretty much They're

762
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: all about same size. They're about one hundred plus kilos. They

763
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: all can run twelve seconds hundred meters. They're all big

764
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: and strong and robust, and it's become a bit of

765
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: the same game, and it's very fast and it flows

766
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: and it doesn't because, by the way, this is what

767
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: the physiques of the rguy league players can do. They

768
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: can just keep rolling, keep rolling. It's a good spectator game.

769
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: Rugby union still is very pure. Your front three they're all,

770
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: you know, one hundred and twenty kilos, but they're all

771
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: five foot eight five nine, and then your back rolls tall,

772
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: tall guys, and then your back line is similar sort

773
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: of players what they were when they were playing school boys.

774
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: They were good runners. They can run the ball, and

775
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: they can kick the ball then catch the ball. So

776
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: do you think rugby unions stayed too pure?

777
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 2: I think it's a harder game for the audience to understand.

778
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 2: That's probably the big challenge in rugby at the moment,

779
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 2: you know, like just to sit there and watch it.

780
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: No one likes to No one likes to watch sport

781
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 2: and not not understand.

782
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: It that that's s more technical.

783
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Like in terms of rules, like what was

784
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 2: that penalty for? Yeah, I don't know.

785
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: Just sometimes you don't know.

786
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: Sometimes ends you sitting in a game of rugby. I

787
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: was a World Cup, what's that penalty for? And you're

788
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: like it could be for a number of things, and

789
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: you argue. You sit there with mates that you've that

790
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 2: you view some people who's really good rugby analysts, experts,

791
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 2: and you'll argue other penalties, you know, and I suppose

792
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: that still happens in rugby league. We've put downs and

793
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: was his foot in or out? Like, but it's.

794
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: Not it's not more technicalist. It's not an easy he

795
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: fucked it up, he made a mistake, yeah, and.

796
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 2: In rugby it's not that easy. He's okay. The biggest

797
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 2: issue with rugby is it's probably the hardest sport in

798
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: the world to referee. No sport in the world can

799
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: a game be influenced by the referee and again I

800
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: go back to the USA model. In an NFL game,

801
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,399
Speaker 2: there's a dumpires they're all responsible for something. Rugby league,

802
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 2: I've tried two referees and they've gone back and said,

803
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 2: we don't want that. Rugby hasn't. I know, they've apparently

804
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: have tried it in some competitions. I think we've got

805
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 2: to start trying those sort of things. You know, it's

806
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: that hard a game. We always know, so as a

807
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: coach one of the first things I do, I look

808
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 2: at the referee before I look at the opposition on

809
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: a Saturday.

810
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: Because you've study that referee.

811
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 2: We just know what they're sort of. They've got key

812
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: interpretations that they're a little bit stricter on some more

813
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 2: strict drops on off side. Some are a bit more

814
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 2: strictly with going off your feet of the rock. Some

815
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: are strict on coming and clean out from the side.

816
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 2: So that's that in itself, like the referees are not

817
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,800
Speaker 2: doing anything that they're not doing anything wrong. This is

818
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 2: it's a hard game for them to manage. I can't

819
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: think of a game in the world that's harder to

820
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: referee than rugby.

821
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: Therefore makes it a lot more difficult as a spectator game.

822
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 1: That's right, and you're own spectators in terms of money

823
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: and TV rights, and because the TV companies don't give

824
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: a shit as long as they've got people washing, I'll

825
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: pay you a lot of money if you can give

826
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: me a lot of content. And that content is what

827
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: once to be watched, and people will stop watching it

828
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: if they don't understand it. I mean, I go back

829
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: to much more simpler days, and we used to watch

830
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: it was you know, the camp's and all that sort

831
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: of people much simply aim it was and it was easy,

832
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: easy to watch for me.

833
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: And it's just becomes it's become. Yeah, it's a challenging.

834
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 2: It's a challenging game to adjudicate. And you're on your

835
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 2: own out there, and you've got this there's so many

836
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,720
Speaker 2: you've got linesmen, all the court rs and our system referees,

837
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: and they're responsible for offside. But at any given rock,

838
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 2: you pulled up five clips now and you showed me

839
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: a penalty, I could I could agree or disagree, and

840
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 2: I could find one or two other infringements at that

841
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 2: same ruck. And so it's a bit like, well, what

842
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: what was the most cynical penalty there? What one affected

843
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 2: the outcome of the game. What deserved to be blown.

844
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: Like some sometimes referees will have excellent games to a

845
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: spectator and they'll be hauled in from their coaches and go,

846
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: you let all these things go.

847
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: That was so what's the answer to that? Then we said,

848
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: but who is making all this technical?

849
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: Well, look, there's the problem with rugby is that it's

850
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: if then I all want to change a rule, what

851
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 2: do they do? They go to more Park and they

852
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: change it. It's changing Then can change rules in a

853
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 2: week Rugby have to go through like a by law,

854
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 2: they have to go through a trial period. So we're

855
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: now Sydney All Club rugby playing a tackle law below

856
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 2: the sternam. Any tackle above the sternam is a penalty.

857
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 2: So I'll have players that play for the war Retars

858
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 2: on a Friday night that tackle normally and then come

859
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: down and plane.

860
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: So club rugby is different to the Red rug rugby

861
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: this year. It is in terms of the So any

862
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: of other surnam is a penalty. Yeah, so because of

863
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 1: their trying to protect the head.

864
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then there's a flip side of it. The

865
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: tall guys that we just mentioned, the six eights, they've

866
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 2: got to now bend their back a little bit more.

867
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 2: They're they're the ones is a little bit more vulnerable

868
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: getting knees to the head because they've got to become

869
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 2: legs tackles all of a sudden. So it's not easy.

870
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: And so this is just one example of how the

871
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 2: game and for this to be approved it needs to

872
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: go through a trial period World Rugby. And every time

873
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 2: Australia understand it, like we Australia New Zealand, we want

874
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: the game to flow because that's what we compete against.

875
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 2: And every time something goes to get changed the Northern

876
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 2: Hemisphere who prefer a different style of rugby. And if

877
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 2: there's a board of ten and there's six from the

878
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,960
Speaker 2: Northern Hemisphere, where to the six vote? So there's always

879
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 2: this push back. One international you need, you need to

880
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: change the laws. They need to be sanctioned by.

881
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: World Rugby, all right.

882
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 2: So there's the problem just there. You're never going to

883
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: because the Norlon Hemisphere everything that we don't like kick

884
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: to the corner and there's a more Austrains will go

885
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: go to the bathroom during during that they'll go get

886
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 2: a beer, whereas the North they start cheering when there's

887
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: a more scrum or a more five meters out because

888
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 2: it's just you know, the conditions over the years, the weather,

889
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 2: the style of footy that have been successful in a nation.

890
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,720
Speaker 2: It's different to our style of footy.

891
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: Do you do you think? I mean you just mentioned

892
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 1: that the tackle height, which I'm on the NRL's Concussion Committee,

893
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: which is part of the Player Safety Group, so it's

894
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: a subcommittee part of that, and we often talk about

895
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: the AARU rules or union rules relative to tackle heights

896
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And at this stage, well we

897
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,479
Speaker 1: have not bought a ruling like you guys have bought

898
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,879
Speaker 1: that ruling. Is it has Rugby Union become a nanny state?

899
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: Ex player I look at uh, I do think leger

900
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: in I reckon there's going to be some issues in the.

901
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: League and don't want to get hit in the head.

902
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 1: I get that. None I think there's going to bestern

903
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: and blood.

904
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: No, don't. I don't necessarily agree with the stern because

905
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 2: of the height of some players. I don't agree with that.

906
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: I do agree with how Rugby are managing protocol for

907
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 2: head knocks.

908
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 1: Well, we're doing the same now, so we've got the

909
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: same eleven days.

910
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 2: But when the shoulder charge you got taken out of

911
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: rugby league. Yeah, I thought this is terrible that this

912
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: was some of the best highlights, but now you think about.

913
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: It, No, it had to happen, Yeah, because.

914
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: It was an unfair advantage for someone to be able

915
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 2: to load up, not have any technique involved and knock

916
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 2: the lights out of someone.

917
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: Else or someone Dylan app six foot eight.

918
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: It's still tough. You've still seeing really tough players make

919
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: really good hits in rugby league without shoulder charge, and

920
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: so I think we learned to evolve as spectators. There

921
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 2: are definitely parts of the game where do you.

922
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: Think above the stoneam is below the steam? I should say,

923
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: is going too far?

924
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: Like yeah, there's a I.

925
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: Mean like if you hit around the top of the chest,

926
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: what's wrong?

927
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's everything. Everything I coached last year was

928
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 2: had to be thrown out the window at the start

929
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: of this year. And you know, we had a good

930
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 2: year last year. It won the comp on the back

931
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: of defense, and it had to be changed when an

932
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: email came around in middle of January this year. So

933
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: there's I'm sort of of the opinion. I'm happy to

934
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: a bit like when I'm saying I think we should

935
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: try things like two or three referees. I'm happy to

936
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: try things like that to see if it works. But

937
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: there are parts of me the Yeah, there's a lot

938
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 2: of things like the contact in the air where there's

939
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,479
Speaker 2: the red card. A lot of things have been tried

940
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: in rugby. Whether they're bringing the twenty minute red card

941
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: where you get an low card and then they go

942
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 2: and get tim to assess if it gets upgraded to red.

943
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: So I think world rugby quite long when they get

944
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: is that the one where if you get sent off

945
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: you get a red card, someone else can come in

946
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, someone else can come back on. Yeah, I

947
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 1: quite like that. That would have been the other night original.

948
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I saw him.

949
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: What are some things they're doing. They're doing something that's a.

950
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 1: Good rule, but a good example. I'm not excusing what

951
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: Joseph Slily did, but you know that Joseph six foot six, Yeah,

952
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: and you know Respuls was like much smaller and real

953
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: slipped because of Joseph's height, and maybe we'll be there

954
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: was some recklessness in there, but he didn't adjust and

955
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: probably but very hard to adjust mid flight. And I

956
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: would have thought in rugbies. Everyone sick. There's a whole

957
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 1: lot of guys that tall and and but there's alsose

958
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: guys much shorter. So I would have thought to himself

959
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: that would be a real danger. Not being able to

960
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: tackle above the sternum.

961
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 2: It's really difficult.

962
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: But has a referee see that?

963
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 2: Like yeah, and it's not fair the referees because these

964
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 2: guys like they're now got to go and police something

965
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 2: completely different. So whether it will be the thing is

966
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 2: like when wild rugby started, there's a few nations did

967
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: it before us. Everyone's sort of trying to be politically correct.

968
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 2: So I don't disagree with why they did it. I

969
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: don't think it's made it any better or worse at

970
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 2: the moment. It's going to take years to work that out.

971
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: But is it an egg extential threat to rugby union?

972
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,239
Speaker 1: With the rules, all the new rules that are coming in,

973
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: You know, everything just keeps flowing in the joint. I

974
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: know it will it last, it'll last globally.

975
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: We just the fear is that we don't get it

976
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: right and we become a sport that isn't in the

977
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: sort of realm of one of the big sports, and

978
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 2: we just can't fight our way way out to get

979
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: back in the top three in the world, like we

980
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: sat there for fifteen years. That's the threat. The global

981
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,919
Speaker 2: threat is not there. And again, I love my league.

982
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 2: I get disappointed with the league, the perception of league

983
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: to union. And like I'm a Isie kid, I love

984
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: watching my league. I don't reckon. Too many league boys

985
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: sit there and I'm proud to say that they like

986
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 2: watching rugby. I reckon it's a little bit of a

987
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: it's a badge of honor to say our rugby sucks

988
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,760
Speaker 2: and the game is really unhealthy to pro level globally.

989
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: Was on a spare seat at the World Cup, you

990
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Like the game is really healthy.

991
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,479
Speaker 2: We've just got a big performal. When the Wallabies sounds silly.

992
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: There's a lot to fix to make the Wallaby successful.

993
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: But if the Wallabies are successful, it'll be a popular.

994
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 1: Sport all the way.

995
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: Guy I think he is because he's he saw him

996
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: play like. He's a pretty tenacious sort of fella. He's

997
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: going to have to make some enemies like he did

998
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 2: on the footy field. He's got to be prepared to

999
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: be unpopular. But I think the current chairman is Daniel

1000
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: Herbert and Phil war You just got to give him.

1001
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: We've got to stick with him. We've had so much turnover,

1002
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: disappointed with how the last administration went down, like that

1003
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: whole playing the stuff in the media and taking pot

1004
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: shots at League and trying to play the intelligence we

1005
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: didn't like. It's still hurting us now, like it's you

1006
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 2: don't you don't poke the bear and you sort of

1007
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: show respect to where League are and Valandis is doing

1008
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 2: a fantastic job, and I think we became that. That

1009
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 2: is probably half the reason a lot of League fans

1010
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 2: hate Rugby the moment because how our former chairman was

1011
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: out there disrespecting the intelligence of another code. Like I

1012
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,319
Speaker 2: just thought that was poor taste and rugby has never

1013
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 2: been about that.

1014
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 1: I want to do a complete switch now that you

1015
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: Stevie Hills, you co founded a business called Recovery outside

1016
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: of rugby League. Well, it's sort of a Rugby and

1017
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: the regul league. It's it's nothing to do with what

1018
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: you do day to day, I guess, but it is

1019
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 1: something you do day to day. What's recovery.

1020
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a wellness center that has a

1021
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 2: group in large sized ice bar, saunas, hyperbaric chamber, compression boots.

1022
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: It's basically what we've all seen for years that was

1023
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: accessible at SFS Footy Stadium, you know, the shared hot

1024
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: tarb on the sauna. And I just retired out of

1025
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 2: I've been if I've had a couple of gym franchises.

1026
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,879
Speaker 2: I've had been involved in Anytime Fitness and forty five

1027
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 2: and about to open a strong Parties of Parties Wellness

1028
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: and strong brand yeap, Can I open that soon? In Couldji?

1029
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 2: And I just over time when I went through retiring

1030
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: and body was broken and wasn't able to access a

1031
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: lot of the services that I was getting as a

1032
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: full time footy player, found it difficult to actually go

1033
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 2: and find these places. Just watched the emergence of saunas

1034
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: popping up here and there, some cryo machines and we

1035
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 2: didn't have Crome machines, and I just I always knew

1036
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: that I sparse worked and yeah, we just saw what

1037
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 2: you got.

1038
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,319
Speaker 1: What's in What's how many how many sites you got?

1039
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 2: We've got Cuji, Cronella and Manly three sites in. Yeah,

1040
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: we've got at least signed in LA.

1041
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: So what's what's the site got inside, so I walk

1042
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: in as a membership. How's it work.

1043
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: It's both it's membership, it's casual walking off the street,

1044
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 2: or it's multi packs like parties and yoga model. You

1045
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: buy membership, you can come two, three times, we can

1046
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: come unlimited. There's different type of memberships. Half our revenue

1047
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: comes from memberships and half comes from walkings off the

1048
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 2: street or multi packs, which is good because they're all

1049
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: paying different prices and members will be able to come

1050
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 2: as many times they want throughout the week. You might

1051
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 2: not want to come. It might be something you only

1052
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: do four times a month, so you just buy a

1053
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 2: multipack where you pay once as you're coming off the street.

1054
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: It's a bit. It's honestly very much similar to what

1055
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: you would have seen at the Alians or the Sydney

1056
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 2: Footy Stadium. Spa backs got a large ice bath like

1057
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: they can fit put it so we can get a

1058
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: rugby team in and out in forty five minutes. So

1059
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: you can get you've got three or four saunas, you've

1060
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 2: got two or three ice bus. One might be three

1061
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 2: five ten degrees. You've got to be hot bath that

1062
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 2: could be forty degrees and then you've got a room outside.

1063
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: It's got twelve recliner chairs with compression boots, and we've

1064
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 2: got a lease signed in the States. And there's sort

1065
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 2: of the IV therapy, the longevity side, the drip, yeah,

1066
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 2: the drip, there's all that sort of stuff that he's

1067
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 2: starting to become a little bit more mainstream.

1068
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 1: Now that's not in Australia.

1069
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 2: No, we've done in Australia. We've tried it and we've

1070
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: sort of taken some data on it.

1071
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: See Vitamin C and B twelve shots blah blah blah.

1072
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's become a newsyum. It's becoming a little

1073
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 2: bit more popular here, but still over in the States,

1074
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 2: it's it's pretty common everywhere.

1075
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,799
Speaker 1: I sayd because Caesar's Palace and I went was walking

1076
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: to the gym. There was a center right there. You

1077
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: can go and get it. There's about thirty different injections, infusions,

1078
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,799
Speaker 1: you can get every vitamin in the world. Things I've

1079
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: never even heard of. And you I didn't go in,

1080
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: but like it just I was tempted to, but like

1081
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: it was just everything was set out there. It was

1082
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: pretty amazing. But there was people in there. I saw

1083
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: people in there, so recovery is it's not just recovering,

1084
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: it's just for health and world.

1085
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:37,320
Speaker 2: So I guess at the end of the day, and

1086
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,240
Speaker 2: so like what we sort of thought initially, we probably

1087
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 2: thought it'd be like the gym junk of the weekend warrior,

1088
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: like we've now been a big a big day on

1089
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: a Saturday of Sunday is like a couple hundred guests.

1090
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 2: People come through the door, and I would say thirty

1091
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,040
Speaker 2: percent of those people are there not because they've got

1092
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 2: an injury, just because they want to stay on top

1093
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 2: of their mental health. So Monday mornings just to start

1094
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,919
Speaker 2: their routine, just to go and sit in a nice

1095
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,719
Speaker 2: for ten minutes in a thirty minute book in you go.

1096
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: Everyone's got their own routine. We don't We don't tell

1097
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,279
Speaker 2: people what the right time is. It's up to the

1098
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 2: individual work.

1099
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: They've got a book in there.

1100
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: You've got a book in yeah, And there's there's private

1101
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: book ins where you can get your own room and

1102
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: you get your own sawn and your own punchball. Or

1103
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: you could be sitting in there tomorrow and you could

1104
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: be sitting there with a famous ones player would be

1105
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: sitting in there, and you might love that but someone

1106
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: your your partner might not like that. Yeah, there's private

1107
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 2: facilities and there's shared facilities.

1108
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, so but it's ice bath in between the bread traditionally.

1109
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: Saw in our steam room in forred we've got all

1110
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 2: of them. And you've got the boots you got normally

1111
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 2: the compression boots, and you've got to you've got chain,

1112
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: and we've got a drive float bed so you know

1113
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: those flat positive Yeah, we've got a drive version of that,

1114
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 2: which is a hot water bed.

1115
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: And let's just put the infusions aside. But I mean

1116
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: that could be for the future. But is there other

1117
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: other professional aspects to it, like, for example, you can

1118
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: get the consultations with someone about my blood my blood count.

1119
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: In the States. That'll be the longevity side of it.

1120
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: That'll be We're open our first one later this year

1121
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 2: in Los ange I was living there for a couple

1122
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 2: of years and I sort of noticed when I was there,

1123
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 2: I was coaching the rugby team. I couldn't get a

1124
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 2: couldn't find a large sized ice bath in the whole

1125
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: of Los Angeles unless you got the Lakers' facility or

1126
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: LA and it was impossible. So we spent four hours

1127
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:15,919
Speaker 2: trying to get a rugby team through the day before

1128
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 2: a Grand final, and there's a few competitors over there,

1129
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 2: but they're more the private suites like day spa small sauna,

1130
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 2: small one person plunge and they can fit three people

1131
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: at a time, and they might have a room that

1132
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: has three or four of those, whereas you walk into

1133
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,959
Speaker 2: ours and you've got it can fit the same number

1134
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: of people that can just that have just left a

1135
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: group training class of thirty people see large people in

1136
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: a short period of time. Therefore you can charge them

1137
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 2: a little bit less of what the competitors.

1138
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,759
Speaker 1: Sort of like the Gary Brecker thing, like he's just

1139
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: a bit more full than that. He gets a whole

1140
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: lot of other stuff.

1141
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that'll be a big part of what the

1142
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 2: first one in Los Angeles. There's a medical director who's

1143
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: involved in the business now and he will he will

1144
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 2: trade his medical concierge business outside of our first one

1145
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 2: in the States, and that'll be part of our membership

1146
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 2: will be you get a consultation with the doctor your

1147
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 2: blood's taken. So that's pure in America because they're probably

1148
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,480
Speaker 2: a little bit more. Can you do that, You can

1149
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 2: do it here, but it's a whole different. We haven't

1150
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: got a medical director as part of our so we're

1151
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 2: sort of working through that. But you need a license

1152
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: doctor and then you need a registered nurse to go

1153
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 2: through all of those things. So we haven't hit go

1154
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 2: on that in Australia yet because we've been we've enjoyed

1155
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 2: the success that could your manly have had. We're looking

1156
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 2: we've got more sites coming and potential more in the

1157
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 2: in the North America region and it's been excited. Anything

1158
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: to talk to Tim again, Yeah, unfortunately I don't talk

1159
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: to him about that.

1160
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 1: Could you go and talk to Tim? Timmy, I'm probably listening.

1161
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 1: So am I just mucking around?

1162
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,040
Speaker 2: Mate?

1163
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: It's all good? So can you just explain though, how

1164
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: ex rabunion player can't route and coach? How do you

1165
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: get involved with something like recovery? Oh? What's the true?

1166
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: How did I?

1167
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: Well?

1168
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 2: I had other gym so I missed three and a

1169
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 2: half years with an achilles injury at like the age

1170
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: of twenty eight. Two kids at the time. It was

1171
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 2: like a tough period, but I sort of knew this

1172
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: rugby thing won't last forever. And I also knew what

1173
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 2: I was like at school. I was on a good

1174
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: student sport kept me, got me into a lot of detentions,

1175
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 2: but I sport was sort of what really kept me

1176
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 2: on track at school. And I just knew I'd never

1177
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: be a good nine to five person. I just wouldn't

1178
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 2: thrive in that environment. So I invested and opened my

1179
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 2: first gym. It was twenty four hour gym. While I

1180
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 2: was in Canberra. I was playing the Brumbies. I was

1181
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 2: an injured player. I did that. I didn't got out

1182
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 2: of that one. I was down the South Coast and

1183
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: I got out of that brand and went to a

1184
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 2: forty five. I just sort of started to see the

1185
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 2: high number of people that were taking up gym memberships,

1186
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: and then all you kept here and talking to good

1187
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 2: friends at the physios and cairos was the high number

1188
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: of people that were gym membership. And then two three

1189
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: months later we're booking themselves in for regular physio or Cairo.

1190
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: So this self maintenance part of what we learned to

1191
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: do with rugby player. That's what you get good at.

1192
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 2: You get good at being able to push yourself but

1193
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 2: then work how to get yourself back into shape as

1194
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 2: quickly as possible. I just realized that there is a

1195
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 2: market here for people that are now starting to be

1196
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 2: really conscious of not how they look, but how they feel.

1197
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: And then COVID came like two months after through open Coujie,

1198
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: and we're right next door to a gym forty five

1199
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: and recovery next to each other, and we owned both them,

1200
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: and the numbers were pretty even for membership and whatnot.

1201
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 2: Pre COVID post COVID, it just went wellness just went

1202
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 2: through the roof. People just started to become so concerned

1203
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,880
Speaker 2: and aware of how they were feeling and what they

1204
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 2: needed to do to feel better physically that it became

1205
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: part of their routine. And we're sort of seeing that now,

1206
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 2: like the amount of education and what you can learn

1207
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: about what is good for your physical health becomes good

1208
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: for your mental health and vice versa. And we're an

1209
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 2: aging population. You know, have you ice bath before? Yeah? Yeahps,

1210
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: but thirty years ago.

1211
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:49,800
Speaker 1: Maybe I did when I was paying putty, But like

1212
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: generally speaking, though, you had to go to a particular facility.

1213
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 2: And so you just you just see now this emergence

1214
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 2: of people that now know that this isn't something that

1215
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 2: they have to do if they've got a saw back

1216
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:04,800
Speaker 2: or saw hampshing this is something they want to do

1217
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 2: to avoid getting a saw back or saw hamshing, or

1218
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,240
Speaker 2: just to feel good and clear and good mental clarity.

1219
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: Do you remember I don't know if you remember this guy, but.

1220
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: Maybe you do.

1221
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: When you were a young bloke, I was best mates.

1222
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: He's now pass away, but a guy called Gary stem

1223
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: or Mitchell stem.

1224
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 2: Mitch was one of my mates.

1225
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: I know, Gary was my best mate really, so we

1226
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: boxed together. He was a great box wasn't it, Gary,

1227
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: GARYO box Gary and I Gary down the army Army

1228
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: he went to Vietnam.

1229
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:37,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1230
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he was the military police and he was

1231
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 1: a good boxer. And so when he induced me boxing,

1232
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: and then like when I was eight or nine, anyway,

1233
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: we were train together till like till I was forty.

1234
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,200
Speaker 1: And every morning we'd meet down at Bronnie's Bronie Said Club,

1235
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: and we'd three days a week with Tuesday, Thursday Sunday

1236
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: every year, never stopped within the surf club, and we

1237
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: would go for a run from BONDI I'm back, and

1238
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: then we go and hit the bag and all the

1239
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: old school stuff, you know. And then but the thing

1240
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: that we always did was we always jumped the water

1241
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: summer winter and that winter swim. I think it was

1242
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 1: like having nice bath. It's not quite as degrees, and

1243
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,080
Speaker 1: I reckon we never got sick, neither one of us.

1244
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: In then he ended up getting cancer, unfortunate, but like

1245
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: neither one of us ever got sick during that period.

1246
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: And I met, I had four kids. You know, I

1247
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: was running a big business, and I think about it today.

1248
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: People get sick a lot, and I never got sick.

1249
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: And I always put it down to the fact that

1250
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: I was jumping in the cold water three times a

1251
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 1: week summer in winter. We never missed. And in fact,

1252
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: I remember taking my son, my oldest son, and Mitchell

1253
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 1: and Gary, and I said to the two boys, you

1254
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: guys got to come from run with us. And they

1255
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: were about eleven or twelve, and we're running from Bondai

1256
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: to Bronti to Bondai and there's a few pretty steep

1257
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: hills and I don't forget Mitchell and Dane started crying.

1258
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 1: We left them behind. We ran on and we said,

1259
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: you guys considered, well, get us when we come back.

1260
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,880
Speaker 1: But that that cold water stuff, I think actually helped

1261
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 1: helped me avoid injury and illness.

1262
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 2: And I think today that's it's not about fixing you

1263
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 2: if you're broken, it's stopping you from getting to the

1264
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 2: point where you can't train. Yeah, that's all. That's the

1265
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: biggest benefit for myself. I know I'm not going to

1266
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: be as big, fit or fast, as strong as I

1267
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 2: once was, but if I can say injury free, then

1268
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: I can still go for I don't run at all anymore,

1269
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 2: but I can still train. I can still go to

1270
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 2: the park with the kids and be active at footy

1271
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:38,800
Speaker 2: training and things like that. So it's not about just

1272
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 2: trying to get myself to peak performance. It's about being

1273
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: able to continually train and exercise because I know it

1274
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 2: helps me physically. It helps me be better with work,

1275
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 2: better with family.

1276
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: Mentally too. I think absolutely the cold water is good

1277
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,479
Speaker 1: for the mental thing. I don't know what it does physic.

1278
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 1: And it's funny you should say, because I was only

1279
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: talking to an North Meeting guy this morning before he

1280
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 1: came here, and he was explaining to me that if

1281
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: you look at the data of all Australian males over

1282
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: time in terms of our age, he said that your

1283
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:17,319
Speaker 1: muscle muscle, amount of muscles volume wasted, your volume goes

1284
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: down on a very quite a smooth line. Over time,

1285
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: as you get older, it reaches down. In one day,

1286
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 1: you're dead and you've got very little muscle musk left

1287
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: you your one hundred very little muscle mass, he said,

1288
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 1: But if you look at individual people, he said, it

1289
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not that smooth. It goes like this. It drops,

1290
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 1: goes like this and drops over time. And he said,

1291
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: what you're going to try and avoid is that drop period.

1292
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: And he said one of the most important things to

1293
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 1: avoid that drop period is that you don't get injured.

1294
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: He said, because you can't train. He said, So what

1295
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 1: happens is over a two or three week period if

1296
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: you've got an injury cause because you're not well enough,

1297
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: you don't train, you lose muscle mass. You will never

1298
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: recover it you get back, you don't get it back.

1299
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: So you want to be like a life maintenance.

1300
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: So cold does helps you do that? Cold and hot therapy,

1301
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: by the.

1302
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 2: Way, contrast therapy, Yeah, contrast. We've got options to be

1303
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 2: cold bath, hot bath or cold bathsauna, option to choose both.

1304
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 1: And so that's what your recovery is doing. Yes, contract therapy.

1305
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: It's interesting because you know, like I mean, it's a

1306
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:22,080
Speaker 1: probably scientifically proven that there's the sort of stuff we

1307
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 1: should be doing in order to because most people don't

1308
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: get in the head bother having a cold on a

1309
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: freeze gold bath. Why would I bother getting into a

1310
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 1: really hot sauner. Why would I bother doing it regularly?

1311
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: Why would I bother it? Because at the end of

1312
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: the day, it's about maintaining muscle mass for a bloke anyway,

1313
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: I guess the same place of women, but it must

1314
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: mass for a guy. It's very hard to maintain muscle

1315
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 1: mass if you go through periods of illness or injury,

1316
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: and what you do is work out how do I

1317
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: avoid illness and injury or how can I actually give

1318
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: myself a fight and chance? And I think some of

1319
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: way recovery is pretty smart as sort of tapping in

1320
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: to the modern, the modern or the science around modern

1321
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: thinking in terms of maintaining your being your best possible

1322
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: self for as long as possible.

1323
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: There's also like I saw the Hoodman Andrew Hoodman came

1324
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: to the Australia at the start of the city. Yeah,

1325
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,520
Speaker 2: he actually came into recovery throughout the court and I

1326
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 2: watched his seminar Sydney opera house, and you said one

1327
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: thing that was really I've always thought this, but how

1328
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: he said it, and I'm going to I can't say

1329
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 2: in technical terms. He said, that's something long lines of

1330
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 2: everything you do that you don't want to do, Like

1331
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,479
Speaker 2: if you don't want to go walk down the shop

1332
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 2: and buy food in the morning because it's too cold,

1333
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 2: if you don't want to go to work everything. Every

1334
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: time you do something that you don't want to do,

1335
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 2: you building like a mental resilience, but there is a

1336
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 2: physiological improvement in your brain. Have you been able to

1337
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 2: complete tasks you don't want to do? You think it's

1338
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,080
Speaker 2: going to cold water, yeah, but not not doing things physically.

1339
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 2: But just if you don't want to go to work out,

1340
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 2: you don't want to stay back for another hour because

1341
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: it's easier not to Everything you do that you don't

1342
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 2: want to do and you push through some type of

1343
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 2: resilience barrow, there is a physical improvement. There is a

1344
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 2: physical change in your brain doing things or completing tasks

1345
00:58:58,720 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 2: you don't actually want to do.

1346
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting because and I have to finish off on

1347
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: this to you, but like what's interesting what you just

1348
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: said is that I think and I don't know if

1349
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: it's right wrong, but I reckon one of the reasons

1350
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: we age after a certain point, you know, like your

1351
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: dat to be around my age is that we sort

1352
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: of get comfortable and we don't have to do things

1353
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: we don't want to do. We don't need to do

1354
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: this anymore, to go four times a week sta at home,

1355
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: I don't need to and and I think what that does,

1356
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: what we should be doing as we get older, is

1357
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: to actually force ourselves to do the things you're talking

1358
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 1: about in order to keep challenging ourselves. You know, I

1359
00:59:36,040 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: think is really important. And it's a simple thing. Jumping

1360
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: in a nice bath is a simple thing. Like if

1361
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: they go to your joint, your recovery place is pay

1362
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: the fee, whatever it is. And you know, by that

1363
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: stage you probably have accumulated a little bit of money anyway,

1364
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, you've you've got the ability to delive a

1365
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: certain lifestyle. If what Andrew Human says is correct and

1366
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: what you just try to para paraphrase, if it's correct,

1367
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: then actually we will live more with more vitality going forward,

1368
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 1: because if we just we've got the house, the house

1369
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: paid off, we've got one or two investments I've got

1370
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 1: my super I'm cool. I don't have to do anything.

1371
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't need a train like I used to try.

1372
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: I can't train like it's to train because you know

1373
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: another way and stop. So I've got to get challenged,

1374
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: and dudes my age start thinking about finding the challenge

1375
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: and one of them. And it's a pretty simple one.

1376
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: Just jumping into cold bath. It's pretty bloody simple actually,

1377
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: as a regular thing. Make a part of your routine

1378
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: and issue.

1379
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: You talk about this, and people are now very this

1380
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 2: has become very normal in people's lives.

1381
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not more for your age group that.

1382
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so in twenty years time, every six year old,

1383
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: not ever since, but large numbers you'll be doing it.

1384
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:45,600
Speaker 2: We'll be doing it.

1385
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:48,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, But my age group, we're not doing it. No,

1386
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: not enough, because there's like a lot of us can't

1387
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: wait to retire. I can't wait to get the six

1388
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: phone and hang their gloves up and stop stop doing everything.

1389
01:00:57,720 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: I don't think slows down When you down, and then

1390
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 1: when you slading everything, you start to lose muscle mass

1391
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 1: and things. You just start to deplete. And that's very

1392
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 1: interesting that you're you and you've got business partners.

1393
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got Nick, Nick Bardeta and tre Folsom and

1394
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 2: so we've gone down that path of we're not a franchise,

1395
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: a partnership studio. We have studio partners and now we're

1396
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 2: just because of what we've learned as a model. So

1397
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 2: instead of selling a territory and just taking a check

1398
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 2: off someone and them being responsible for it, we're in

1399
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 2: for if you're in a studio as a partner, as

1400
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 2: a studio operator, we're in with you, and we've got

1401
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 2: majority ownership and we've got the ability to raise an

1402
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: exit when we want to. But we just felt franchising

1403
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: wasn't for us because these are harder to open up.

1404
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 2: You're putting pools. You've got heavy, heavy pools going on slabs,

1405
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 2: you've got ventilation, You've got a lot more risks for

1406
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 2: an owner. It's not just taking a check and opening up.

1407
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: Capital involved, and a lot more like there's engineering, there's

1408
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 2: a lot more probably that's right, and so there's compliance

1409
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:55,400
Speaker 2: issues and we're just been going to a lot of

1410
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: the competitors. There's a lot of I'm sure you've got

1411
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 2: a nice bath. It's probably perfect for you at home,

1412
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: using it once or twice a day. But if you

1413
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 2: put twenty people in the rice bath, it's not going

1414
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 2: to be clean, it's not going to be cold. So

1415
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: we've gone down that path. We've built our own chilla

1416
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 2: and we've built our own pool, and we haven't gone

1417
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:12,640
Speaker 2: to market yet, but there'll be distribution side of the

1418
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: business soon helping other businesses, hotels, gyms add small wellness

1419
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,840
Speaker 2: to their facility. So what we sort of learned over

1420
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: the five years is about the compliance side of the business.

1421
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 2: And you've got to put the right servant, you've got

1422
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: to put the right type of products in to make

1423
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 2: sure they're clean and there, they're cold enough and there's

1424
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 2: no issues with customers and there's no insurance blowback. So

1425
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 2: it's a big market. People are buying a lot of

1426
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,439
Speaker 2: stuff for at home, and what works at home doesn't

1427
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 2: work from a commercial.

1428
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 1: List, or one definitely wouldn't work in a commercial lane.

1429
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: But my one is one of those. I kind of

1430
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: got the stainless seel on the inside of the tim

1431
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: on the outside do you putat me know the name

1432
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: of it's Oden.

1433
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: They're really good, they're they're great, But the order four

1434
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 2: ten weeks more.

1435
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: I think it was like five months or something, waited

1436
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: for ever to get it.

1437
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: But I got it, and they're just so popular now.

1438
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, and I'm amazing.

1439
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 2: So we've got one of those one of our studios

1440
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 2: and then as a result we thought, well, we've got

1441
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 2: to open all these more studios, won't we just design

1442
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 2: our own. So we've just gone down that hole, the

1443
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 2: rabbit hole of how to get your own version of

1444
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:16,840
Speaker 2: the biggest the piece of the puzzle on this is

1445
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 2: the chiller that keeps a bit large pool cold on

1446
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 2: a hot day in Sydney or Queensland, and you've got

1447
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 2: twenty people coming in every hour body heat. Yeah, so fine,

1448
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: And we've just sort of realized we're better off working

1449
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,000
Speaker 2: with a few people to build our own and we've

1450
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 2: put it in ours now and we're just about to

1451
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 2: launch them elsewhere.

1452
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: Well, I'm actually glad we have got to talk about

1453
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: it as well as trying to solve the issues around

1454
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:38,960
Speaker 1: rugby union.

1455
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,720
Speaker 2: Today, it's harder the soul of rugby, to be honest.

1456
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: Steve, your horse's good to see mate.

1457
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 2: Thanks man.