Speaker 1: Life Sharry.
Speaker 2: Good Evening, We'll just sent to Ardern was a darling
Speaker 2: of the left and it was a big political story
Speaker 2: when she demanded that Scott Morrison stopped sending criminals at
Speaker 2: a Nes to New Zealand, even though they were technically
Speaker 2: Kiwi citizens. Ardurn gave Morrison, who was Prime Minister at
Speaker 2: the time, a public rebuke.
Speaker 3: It was a move the media lapped up.
Speaker 4: New Zealand Prime Minister j Cinda Adern has lashed out
Speaker 4: at Scott Morrison over his criminal deportation policy. She claims
Speaker 4: it's testing the friendship, but Scott Morrison won't back down,
Speaker 4: saying non citizens who break the law should return to
Speaker 4: their home country.
Speaker 5: This is corrosive to our relationship.
Speaker 6: Scott Morrison, cops and ur dern Burn.
Speaker 1: Do not deport your people and your problems.
Speaker 3: Once you've done your time, we send you home.
Speaker 2: Well in to The Coalition at the time had sent
Speaker 2: twoy six hundred criminals back to New Zealand since twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: The Coalition's policy was that if there's a criminal migrant,
Speaker 2: say a murderer or a child rapist, and there are
Speaker 2: a citizen of another country, well then they should be
Speaker 2: deported to that country. Adurn argued that some of the
Speaker 2: criminals had lived in Australia all their life, they had
Speaker 2: ties to our country, and she used that excuse to
Speaker 2: say that she didn't want the hardened thugs back in
Speaker 2: New Zealand.
Speaker 3: It was a clear point of friction.
Speaker 5: May we look forward to better times a hit.
Speaker 2: And those better times for New Zealand at least came
Speaker 2: with Albanesi. Albanesi, in his quest to appease the popular
Speaker 2: female Prime Minister, capitulated to her request. He did this
Speaker 2: even though it wasn't in Australia's national security interests and
Speaker 2: in fact it posed a detriment to public safety.
Speaker 7: Prime Minister Adurn has certainly not been backward in raising
Speaker 7: these issues. I can assure you from our very first meeting.
Speaker 7: Where you have a circumstance where someone has lived their
Speaker 7: entire life effectively in Australia with no connection whatsoever to
Speaker 7: New Zealand, then common sense should apply and we'll act
Speaker 7: as friends and we'll work through those issues in a
Speaker 7: common sense way.
Speaker 5: And this is exactly what we have asked of Australia.
Speaker 5: We acknowledge that Australia will continue to deport as New
Speaker 5: Zealand currently does have provision and does deport those who
Speaker 5: don't have long term connection to New Zealand. What we've
Speaker 5: been seeking is common sense and the spirit of friendship
Speaker 5: and that's what Prome Minus to Albin Easi's spoken to today.
Speaker 2: Well, one person's common sense is another person's well, I
Speaker 2: won't say what. And so it is that Albert Easy
Speaker 2: weakened Australia's imigration policy to appease Jasciner. Ardern, the Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: is ultimately responsible for the flawed Ministerial Direction ninety nine
Speaker 2: and it's meant that murderers, child rapists, thugs and con
Speaker 2: artists who have ties to Australia would have been allowed
Speaker 2: to stay here instead of being deported as they should
Speaker 2: have been because they're not Australian citizens. It has exposed
Speaker 2: the community to a serious risk of harm from criminals
Speaker 2: who aren't Australians and shouldn't be here if they're going
Speaker 2: to repeatedly break the law. The latest example of a
Speaker 2: savage attack was by a violent detainee and this was
Speaker 2: exposed by Mark Riley just last night.
Speaker 6: Seven News can reveal that as mister Charles was defending himself. Yesterday,
Speaker 6: yet another violent foreign criminals visa was being reinstated by
Speaker 6: the Ministry of Appeals Tribunal in Melbourne, this time Indian
Speaker 6: born Gulprit Singh on parole after serving six years for
Speaker 6: what the judge called a ferocious and terrifying bashing in Geelong,
Speaker 6: leaving his victim close to death. The AAT overturning the
Speaker 6: decision to pull his visa, finding under mister Giles, Direction
Speaker 6: ninety nine sings ties to Australia weighed strongly in his
Speaker 6: favor well.
Speaker 2: As political editor Simon Benson wrote today, Ministerial Direction ninety
Speaker 2: nine was a disaster from the day of its ill
Speaker 2: conceived inception. He wrote that it goes to the heart
Speaker 2: of the ideological revision of immigration policy under Labor and
Speaker 2: the poor decision making by cabinet ministers. Andrew Giles today,
Speaker 2: finally forced out of hiding to front the cameras, he
Speaker 2: obviously can't blame his boss, Albin Easy in these media interviews,
Speaker 2: so trying to hold onto his job, he shifted the
Speaker 2: blame to his department, claiming there were no red flags,
Speaker 2: no warnings that anything would be a miss with Direction
Speaker 2: ninety nine, but.
Speaker 8: Just to clarify when the Department war gained with you
Speaker 8: Direction ninety nine, that it did not give you forewarning
Speaker 8: that some of these serious cases that you wanted to
Speaker 8: see individuals deported, that they would be overturned.
Speaker 9: The intent of Ministeral Direction ninety nine and the work
Speaker 9: that was done in preparing it did not indicate that
Speaker 9: these sort of serious crimes would be affected.
Speaker 3: But is this entirely accurate?
Speaker 2: Were documents tabled in Senate estimates show that Giles was
Speaker 2: want that there would be a reduction in the number
Speaker 2: of counseled visas, so that means a reduction in the
Speaker 2: number of people deported. It says the Department anticipates around
Speaker 2: twenty eight hundred cases will need to be renotified. There
Speaker 2: will be a significant reduction in the number of cancelation,
Speaker 2: refine usal of revocation decisions finalized in the first few
Speaker 2: months of the commencement of the Ministerial Direction ninety nine.
Speaker 2: So it seems Giles and did have a warning that
Speaker 2: people identified for deportation for serious reasons would now remain
Speaker 2: in our country. Where Albinizi has been forced into a
Speaker 2: humiliating backflip that he'll now have to reverse this direction
Speaker 2: ninety nine. Now, this is a massive admission that he
Speaker 2: was wrong to capitulate to justinter Arderne and.
Speaker 10: The only effective way of ensuring that tribunal members are
Speaker 10: making better decisions is to issue a new revised direction,
Speaker 10: which the Minister will be doing.
Speaker 2: Blaming the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. So it doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: Albinizi is going to take any responsibility himself for this incompetence,
Speaker 2: or he can't blame Andrew Giles because it was his
Speaker 2: own decision as Prime Minister in a bid to win
Speaker 2: the popularity of a left wing government in New Zealand
Speaker 2: that has put our country in this position. This is
Speaker 2: classic Albertezi, pushing ahead with ideologically motivated policies that undermine
Speaker 2: national security and seriously impact on community safety. It's yet
Speaker 2: another example of a week leader not across the detail.
Speaker 2: Now coming up on the show tonight, Albertezi snubs former
Speaker 2: Labor Senator Nova Paris.
Speaker 3: The footage of.
Speaker 2: That moment I'll show you shortly. Also in Battled nine,
Speaker 2: chief executive Mike Sneesby hangs on to his job after
Speaker 2: a multi hour crisis meeting. Today, I'll have the Latest
Speaker 2: with media writer Sophie Ellsworth, plus the Sydney University professor
Speaker 2: caught on tape telling students that the sexual violence on
Speaker 2: October seven was a media hoax. Liberal MP Julian Lisa
Speaker 2: would join me a bit later, and he's still a
Speaker 2: free man for now. But will Donald Trump be the
Speaker 2: first former president convicted of a crime. We'll speak to
Speaker 2: Annalise Nilsen in Washington later in the show, but first
Speaker 2: let's bring it now. Tonight's panel Perth mayor Basil Zempleis
Speaker 2: and Sky News host James Morrow.
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both.
Speaker 2: Look, James, this evening, this latest immigration scandal looks to
Speaker 2: have been the Prime.
Speaker 3: Minister's own fault.
Speaker 2: He can't blame anyone else for it. He can't sack
Speaker 2: Andrew Giles for his own poor decision here.
Speaker 11: Well yeah, and it's starting to look like he, the
Speaker 11: Prime Minister, should have sacked Giles days ago, not weeks ago,
Speaker 11: when this all started to come out. But now you know,
Speaker 11: he's tied to it. He's tied to his feet and
Speaker 11: this problem just keeps getting worse. You know. The really
Speaker 11: interesting thing to be here too is the constant attempts
Speaker 11: to deflect. You know, clearly the Immigration Minister and the
Speaker 11: Prime Minister staff have all been you know, furiously beavering
Speaker 11: away on aust Lee trying to find decisions where people
Speaker 11: were allowed to stay under the Dutton regime, and of course,
Speaker 11: you know when he was Immigration minister, and of course
Speaker 11: this is just distraction, just as it's distraction to say that, oh, well,
Speaker 11: it's the tribunal's fault, but of course it's the tribunal
Speaker 11: that's following the government's directions.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 11: This all comes back to the government, and the government
Speaker 11: seems to be trying to evade responsibility for this every
Speaker 11: step of the way. Sharon, I know Albertiz he wants
Speaker 11: to be loyal to Giles, he wants to keep him around.
Speaker 11: He doesn't want to lose a minister during his first term.
Speaker 11: It's kind of a point of honor with him. But
Speaker 11: this is just you know, it's really the government is
Speaker 11: bleeding very heavily on this. Border security is something that's
Speaker 11: such a key issue and the number of times we've
Speaker 11: seen labor government's come a cropper in the past because
Speaker 11: the field on borders. He should take the lesson.
Speaker 2: No exactly and basil just the thought I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: sure a lot of people would be sitting at home saying,
Speaker 2: how can the Prime Minister no less jeopardize our entire
Speaker 2: national security for the sake of getting in the good
Speaker 2: books of just into Ardern.
Speaker 12: Well, there's two good books that he's tried to climb into.
Speaker 12: He's trying to hang on to, or cling to the
Speaker 12: friendship with Andrew Giles. He has been overly generous and
Speaker 12: respectful of that friendship. He should have, at the first
Speaker 12: opportunity taken the tough decision that everyone in Australia would
Speaker 12: have accepted and understood, whether their mates or not.
Speaker 1: Giles was responsible.
Speaker 12: Now we learn, of course, because of that tough action
Speaker 12: not being taken that actually it was that friendship to
Speaker 12: just Cinder r durn or pandering to just cinder our
Speaker 12: Dern that's got us all in this fine mess in
Speaker 12: the first place. The Prime Minister is there to make
Speaker 12: tough decisions, not to try and be everybody's mate.
Speaker 1: And if ever you need an example of what.
Speaker 12: Leadership should look like as opposed to what leadership shouldn't
Speaker 12: look like.
Speaker 1: This is the example of it.
Speaker 12: This is a horrendous bungle and Direction ninety nine is
Speaker 12: all down to the Prime Minister and down to the
Speaker 12: Prime Minister, trying to be mates with people. That's not
Speaker 12: the way to lead.
Speaker 2: Look, I think you're right, Basil, because it's this trying
Speaker 2: to be mates with everyone. That's why he gets accused
Speaker 2: of speaking out of both sides of his mouth, and
Speaker 2: then he ends up being mates with no one because
Speaker 2: he never has conviction.
Speaker 3: He doesn't show leadership.
Speaker 1: Just make the tough that we all know Jiles should
Speaker 1: have gone. Somebody held had to be held accountable, whether
Speaker 1: you're good mates or not.
Speaker 12: We've seen lots of leaders over many years, in lots
Speaker 12: of different governments take this difficult decision because it releases
Speaker 12: the pressure on your team. He had the chance to
Speaker 12: do it. He knows he should have done it. Everyone
Speaker 12: excepts it should have happened, but he didn't do it.
Speaker 2: And you use the word accountability and no, Remember Anthony
Speaker 2: Alberzi promised there'd be transparency, there'd be accountability. That's why
Speaker 2: he set up the Corruption Commission. He promised there'd be accountability.
Speaker 2: And yet what we're seeing here is you've got a
Speaker 2: grandmother in Perth who was bashed allegedly by one of
Speaker 2: these released detainees.
Speaker 3: And there is no accountability.
Speaker 2: He wants to protect the minister rather than actually say
Speaker 2: this has got to stop.
Speaker 3: Now look at this.
Speaker 2: Now a lot of people who watch this show love
Speaker 2: nov Paris. Well, this is quite bizarre because Anthony Alberzi
Speaker 2: appears to have snubbed her in Parliament today. Now she's
Speaker 2: a former Labor senator, she's an Olympian and you think
Speaker 2: he would have at least acknowledged her presence, but instead
Speaker 2: he turns the other way while Peter Dutton does acknowledge her.
Speaker 13: Have a look, BEFO, I call the Honorable Member of
Speaker 13: just acknowledge in the gallery today is former Olympic gold
Speaker 13: midalist and almost editor from the Northern Territory. No, but Paris,
Speaker 13: oam welcome to Parliament.
Speaker 2: I mean, James, look, unless there's some explanation that we
Speaker 2: don't know about here. And I have put in a
Speaker 2: question to the Prime Minister's office to say, is there
Speaker 2: a backstory? What happened? Did he know she was there?
Speaker 2: Did he see her at any other point? I haven't
Speaker 2: heard back from them yet, But you know, James, that
Speaker 2: did look like a pretty bad snub.
Speaker 11: Well it did, and you know you have to when
Speaker 11: you see these sorts of things be a little bit forgiving,
Speaker 11: because of course politicians on both sides sometimes have things
Speaker 11: that don't look great on camera, you know, I mean,
Speaker 11: this is a sort of gotcha gabe that gets got
Speaker 11: played with Tony Abbot has been played with, you know,
Speaker 11: liberal prime ministers throughout history. But it does not look good,
Speaker 11: especially because no Paris has been so forthright in calling
Speaker 11: out the anti Semitism problem of Labour's problem in that regard,
Speaker 11: and Albanizy, as you said in your previous statement, there,
Speaker 11: you know, he's not leading. He's being led by these
Speaker 11: different sort of groups, you know, the Left, the Greens,
Speaker 11: and nobody really quite knows who's in charge. And you
Speaker 11: almost sort of worry was he afraid to just you know,
Speaker 11: give her a nod of acknowledgment because of her position,
Speaker 11: and that this would wind up causing him trouble with
Speaker 11: his left flank, which of course he has so much
Speaker 11: trouble with and which is increasingly being seen to be
Speaker 11: dictating the government's policy on Israel, the Middle East. Gaza
Speaker 11: Hamas look.
Speaker 2: Unless he met her at another occasion in parliament to me,
Speaker 2: the Speaker says, let's welcome former Senator Nova Paris. Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton turns waves and Albenezi turns swivels his chair to
Speaker 2: look the other way. I mean, Basil, she's a highly
Speaker 2: respected Australian, a former Olympian.
Speaker 3: Why not just be polite.
Speaker 12: Well, yes, I accept everything that you've said, But for me,
Speaker 12: the tribunal that's sitting here in sufficient evidence to find
Speaker 12: the Prime Minister guilty on this one. Also for the record,
Speaker 12: for the speaker's benefit, it's not former Olympic gold medalist.
Speaker 12: Once an Olympic gold medalist, always an Olympic gold medalist.
Speaker 1: Look, we don't know enough. I'll be interested to here.
Speaker 3: What office says we need a correction in the correct.
Speaker 1: The vision didn't the vision didn't look great.
Speaker 12: However, I don't think we can hang the PM just
Speaker 12: on what we've seen. We don't know what took place
Speaker 12: around it. So not guilty for now.
Speaker 2: You know what, We need to do more investigation to
Speaker 2: see if this was a genuine snub, and if it was,
Speaker 2: we will return to this topic next week and then
Speaker 2: we can hold the PM.
Speaker 3: To account even sougher than we just had to read
Speaker 3: now Duras in the Donald Chuck trial.
Speaker 2: We'll return to a New York court house for their
Speaker 2: second day of deliberations. They of course, failed to arrive
Speaker 2: at a verdict on Wednesday. James, you follow US politics
Speaker 2: very closely. You are the host of the US Report
Speaker 2: here on Sky News. How do you expect this will
Speaker 2: play out?
Speaker 11: Well, you know, it's the longer that we wait to
Speaker 11: get a jury result here, the more likely we have
Speaker 11: a hung jury, you know, where they can't come to
Speaker 11: a decision. So it indicates to me the longer this
Speaker 11: goes on that there's at least one person in that
Speaker 11: jury roup who say, hang on a second.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 11: This is a very tendentious case that's been brought, and
Speaker 11: it really does have all the hallmarks of a stitch
Speaker 11: up between the judge, the judge's instruction, the way the
Speaker 11: case has been managed, the very novel legal theory which
Speaker 11: has turned a misdemeanor bookkeeping error into thirty four election felonies,
Speaker 11: which is amazing given that you know, hush moneys have
Speaker 11: been paid, you know, all over the place by parties
Speaker 11: of both stripes in the past, and you know these
Speaker 11: sorts of things are often dealt with in one way
Speaker 11: or another. This is a really ridiculous and tendentious case
Speaker 11: that they're bringing. I think that this will wind up
Speaker 11: being a hung jury. I don't think they're going to
Speaker 11: wind up getting the guilty simply because to get twelve
Speaker 11: people to vote to make Donald Trump a felon, which
Speaker 11: is what Democrats wants. They can hang that around his
Speaker 11: neck for the wholecoming campaign. I don't think it's going
Speaker 11: to happen, and in fact, actually, to be honest, I
Speaker 11: don't think the Democrats should want it to happen, because
Speaker 11: it'll make them look really bad. These things will blow
Speaker 11: up in their faces tremendously.
Speaker 3: Mark my word, Sherry, what do you think, Basil?
Speaker 2: I mean, will be difficult for a jury to arrive
Speaker 2: at a verdict. I thought I saw some reporting saying
Speaker 2: that he might be able to be convicted even if
Speaker 2: it wasn't a unanimous decision.
Speaker 3: Basil, what do you think is going to happen?
Speaker 12: I obviously have not sat through all of the hearing
Speaker 12: and haven't heard all of the evidence presented, but I
Speaker 12: turn from what I've seen and read, I think that
Speaker 12: a guilty verdict is going to be a stretch. I
Speaker 12: also think, from what we've seen, even a guilty verdict,
Speaker 12: although that appears highly unlikely. It may well mobilize the
Speaker 12: base that he is very very keen to be able
Speaker 12: to mobilize when it comes to election time. So it
Speaker 12: is a worry for him and what we've said, sorry,
Speaker 12: it is a worry for the Democrats and what we've
Speaker 12: seen time and time and time again from the other
Speaker 12: side of the world. It doesn't matter what Trump's done,
Speaker 12: what seems to have said, what he has been accused
Speaker 12: of doing, his standing with enough of the American people
Speaker 12: has never fallen away, and I wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 12: the same thing happens here again. I think he's going
Speaker 12: to get through this, as he seems to get through
Speaker 12: every one of these things that comes his way.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's potentially that scandal is so
Speaker 2: closely associated with his image anyway, that it almost doesn't
Speaker 2: matter what revelation comes out about him, people just go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: another Donald Trump scandal.
Speaker 3: What did we expect?
Speaker 12: James Mara, We've heard all that language that he used
Speaker 12: just before last time's election, and somehow he still got through.
Speaker 12: So I'm not saying it's right, but we've seen a
Speaker 12: patent he can get past that, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, you know, it's almost the equivalent of Joe Biden.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter how many gaffes he makes. It doesn't
Speaker 2: know no matter how many incoherent sentences that he utters.
Speaker 3: People.
Speaker 2: You know, they kind of know that he's old, they
Speaker 2: know that he struggles, and they've accepted it.
Speaker 3: It's kind of maybe.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be a great election.
Speaker 2: Each other out all right, James Mara, buzzil Zemplers, thank
Speaker 2: you both so much. Now, coming up yet another disgraceful
Speaker 2: display of left bias from the ABC.
Speaker 3: It tries to explain its way out of.
Speaker 2: Its political editors comments on racism, and nine's chief executive
Speaker 2: Mike Sneezebey holds on to his job after crisis board
Speaker 2: meetings today.
Speaker 3: Sophie Ellsworth will join me next.
Speaker 2: Welcome back for nine Chief executive Mike Sneezebe has kept
Speaker 2: his job well for now, at least, after he survived
Speaker 2: a marathon crisis board meeting today. Emerging from the meeting,
Speaker 2: all nine staff will have to undertake refreshed sexual harassment
Speaker 2: prevention training over the next month. There'll also be a
Speaker 2: dedicated hotline to report inappropriate behavior, and this will be
Speaker 2: made available to all employees.
Speaker 3: After the meeting that's said to have lasted.
Speaker 2: For more than three hours, Mike sneezeby Peter Costello, the
Speaker 2: chair and HR chief Vanessa Morley reportedly told staff that
Speaker 2: the conversations we've had in recent days have made it
Speaker 2: clear that we need to accelerate the work we are
Speaker 2: doing to build a culture of respect and trust. Now
Speaker 2: it's been a long fortnite for nine. Entertainment company with
Speaker 2: US reported last Monday that Darren Wick, their former head
Speaker 2: of news, had an alleged history of sexual harassment. Allegations
Speaker 2: against him including groping on air presenters while intoxicated, and
Speaker 2: along with the sexual harassment, there were also allegations of
Speaker 2: a toxic culture where women were frozen out, with darren
Speaker 2: Wick allegedly refusing to engage with them or return their cause. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: there were senior executives like Victoria Buchan who had We
Speaker 2: reported they'd become aware of some of the allegations of
Speaker 2: inappropriate behavior, and yet Darren Wick kept his job. We
Speaker 2: also reported that one high profile television presenter spoke to
Speaker 2: a current board director about the culture at nine, including
Speaker 2: damaging leaks designed to force talent into submission. During contract negotiations.
Speaker 2: Despite the presenter and her lawyer speaking with the director,
Speaker 2: it wasn't raised at the board level and not claimed.
Speaker 3: It wasn't a bored matter.
Speaker 2: Mike Sneezbey is under increased pressure amid the ongoing crisis.
Speaker 2: He was forced to fly home from an overseas trip
Speaker 2: celebrating his fiftieth to front the newsroom or to discuss
Speaker 2: this scandal and how it plays out, because it's not over.
Speaker 2: The Australians media writers Sophie Elsworth joins me now and Sophie,
Speaker 2: you're reporting on this has been excellent, so we're grateful
Speaker 2: for your time tonight. What do we know about what
Speaker 2: happened at today's board meeting?
Speaker 14: Well, likewise to you too, Sharry, reporting on this whole
Speaker 14: saga that's in Gulf nine. Look as you said, it
Speaker 14: was a pretty lengthy board meeting. It appears that Peter
Speaker 14: Costello and Mike Sneezeby have appeased the nine board for now.
Speaker 15: But Sharry, this could well be the calm before the storm.
Speaker 14: Because Mike Sneezebey, he's got his very own newspapers writing
Speaker 14: incredibly critical articles that look like they are being planted
Speaker 14: against him, and this is a disaster that is not
Speaker 14: going away.
Speaker 15: Now. They have announced they're doing an independent review.
Speaker 14: They have said today that all staff will have to
Speaker 14: this is about four thousand stuff will have to undergo
Speaker 14: sexual harassment training in June. Sharry, this is not just
Speaker 14: going to result in this moving along. I mean, what
Speaker 14: about the executives are Victoria buck In, the head of
Speaker 14: communications has been under fire, as you have said in
Speaker 14: your reporting as well, so I think heads will roll
Speaker 14: over this.
Speaker 3: I'm surprised that.
Speaker 14: They haven't yet, but I can't imagine their shareholders will
Speaker 14: be overly thrilled with Nine making headlines day in day
Speaker 14: out for all the wrong reason, Sharry.
Speaker 2: Well, I understand that nine chair Peter Costello has been
Speaker 2: blaming some of this crisis at his network on News
Speaker 2: Corp for our reporting exposing it. Yet his own, as
Speaker 2: you just said, The City Morning Herald, The Age, and
Speaker 2: The Financial Review have all run stories relating to this
Speaker 2: on their front page. So he can't dismiss this as
Speaker 2: a NewsCorp driven scandal because it emerged from vulnerable women
Speaker 2: who've suffered for so long in the first place at
Speaker 2: his own network, and now his own publishing arm is
Speaker 2: reporting on this.
Speaker 14: Well, not only his own publishing, Sharry, he's Radio arm.
Speaker 14: We've had Ray Hadley come out talking about this, Tom
Speaker 14: Elliet Elliott on Threa W in Melbourne, so it's across
Speaker 14: his different divisions of the business. And blaming other media
Speaker 14: is never a good thing. Just tries to, you know,
Speaker 14: put blame on someone else. But Peter Costello has not
Speaker 14: been speaking or has not spoken to date publicly on this.
Speaker 14: As you said, Mike sneezeby had to rush home. He
Speaker 14: was celebrating his fiftieth overseas. He's come back to Sydney
Speaker 14: because they are in absolute damage control. Their governance issues
Speaker 14: are potentially at play here.
Speaker 15: Who knew what when? As I said, Shari, this saga.
Speaker 14: Is only beginning for nine and I think there will
Speaker 14: be heads that role and I expect that will be soon.
Speaker 14: But for now they're trying to calm the waters and
Speaker 14: look like they are handling this. But Sharry, internally, there's
Speaker 14: a lot of people extremely angry with how this whole
Speaker 14: saga has played out.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, and it is an interesting approach. I mean,
Speaker 2: both Peter Costello and Mike sneeze have been under pressure
Speaker 2: in the past week and a half. I mean nine
Speaker 2: is aware of stories that we've been investigating that we're
Speaker 2: still investigating. So it is an interesting approach to stand
Speaker 2: by the current executive team. But you know something that's
Speaker 2: also fascinating. You know, the senior executives at the publishing arm, Well,
Speaker 2: how do they sit across from Mike Sneezebey in a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks at budget meetings when their own front
Speaker 2: pages have been reporting on him, you know, when their
Speaker 2: own journalists have been reporting on him on the front page.
Speaker 2: I mean, how do they sit across from him and
Speaker 2: deal with him when they're literally putting him on the
Speaker 2: front page. You know, these relationships are going to be
Speaker 2: very difficult now, so if you quickly before you go.
Speaker 2: The ABC of costs face said it estimates today it's
Speaker 2: trying to claim up, clean up this disaster. After Laura
Speaker 2: Tingle's comments that Australia is racist, the news director at
Speaker 2: the ABC, David Addison, defended their star political correspondent doesn't
Speaker 2: sound like her futures in any jeopardy and they're saying, well,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't accept those comments if they were on the ABC,
Speaker 2: but they weren't on the ABC, so apparently it's fine.
Speaker 14: I mean, Charrie, this is a mess yet again that
Speaker 14: the ABC is mopping up covering for their high profile journalists.
Speaker 14: Laura Tingle said, these pretty crazy, outrageous statements, accusing Peter
Speaker 14: Dutton of you know, you know, whipping up people to
Speaker 14: abuse migrants that open home inspections.
Speaker 15: I mean, this is conspiracy theory.
Speaker 3: Sort of stuff.
Speaker 14: But there you have David Anderson in front of Senate
Speaker 14: Estimates today saying she's a great reporter. Yes, he admitted
Speaker 14: that she did do the wrong thing. However he was
Speaker 14: trying to argue that she didn't do this on an
Speaker 14: ABC platform. Well, the ABC had plenty of articles and
Speaker 14: promos about the Sydney Writers Festival. She was there disclosing
Speaker 14: that she's an ABC journalist. She's on the board, for
Speaker 14: heaven's sake. But as always at the ABC, you might
Speaker 14: get a little smack on the hand, but nothing really
Speaker 14: ever happens.
Speaker 15: And I think they have a problem.
Speaker 14: She's on the board, she's their most high profile staff member,
Speaker 14: and as Peter Dutton said today, she has damaged her credibility.
Speaker 14: She's you know, come out extremely partisan and.
Speaker 15: I think this will continue to hurt her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you have to question how she would
Speaker 2: report and politics on the ABC platform on the seven
Speaker 2: thirty report heading into the next election. And yet let's
Speaker 2: have a look at David Anderson defending her today.
Speaker 16: Should Laura Tingle leave the ABC?
Speaker 17: I don't believe so, Senator. So I don't believe that
Speaker 17: Laura Tingle should leave the ABC.
Speaker 16: It looks like miss Tingle has got off Scott free, Senator.
Speaker 17: I don't think she's got off Scott free at all.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 17: I think mister Stevens's statement that went out yesterday would
Speaker 17: suggest that she has not got off Scott free.
Speaker 16: So Miss Tingle's also a member of the ABC board.
Speaker 16: Is that tenable for her to continue in that role?
Speaker 17: It is not up to me. It is up to
Speaker 17: the chair of the ABC to decide that whether or
Speaker 17: not any member of the board, including me and my
Speaker 17: position is tenable or not.
Speaker 16: That is a disgraceful statement.
Speaker 17: That was a mistake. I think it's a misstep. I'm
Speaker 17: not embarrassed by it. I wish it hadn't happened.
Speaker 18: You don't want to be used to racism, don't peddle
Speaker 18: it or that actually hurt hurt the ABC.
Speaker 17: I am generally sorry that that happened. I wish it
Speaker 17: hadn't have happened.
Speaker 16: Are you sorry to mister Dutton as well?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 17: Senator? I think when political leaders put things out for debate,
Speaker 17: I think the course that that takes I can't be
Speaker 17: sorry for.
Speaker 3: I mean, Sophie.
Speaker 2: This is one of the criticisms of the ABC that
Speaker 2: staff just run riot, that no one pulls them in.
Speaker 2: And when you look at a performance like that, well
Speaker 2: you can see why.
Speaker 14: Well, Sharry, they're protected species at the ABC. They tried
Speaker 14: to say that, you know, it was the media coming
Speaker 14: after them.
Speaker 3: Which was just absurd.
Speaker 14: Also, I'd like to point out where is used director
Speaker 14: Justin Stevens Now. Mister Anderson said in his testimony today
Speaker 14: that he was working with Laura he saw her statement
Speaker 14: which was thirteen hundred words long before it was published.
Speaker 15: He let her know.
Speaker 14: David Edison believes what was coming in his statement nowhere
Speaker 14: to be seen today, completely out of the picture.
Speaker 15: He should have been there answering the questions.
Speaker 14: And where is Kim Williams who said if you're not
Speaker 14: in pasture.
Speaker 15: Don't work at the ABC exactly a good point.
Speaker 2: He made a big song of dance of saying that
Speaker 2: and then nothing to see here, Sophie Ellsworth, I tell
Speaker 2: you what. We look forward to your media section on Monday,
Speaker 2: especially this week. I'm sure you have more news on Mike.
Speaker 3: Sneezebe and Channel nin and thanks for joining us.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 2: A sociology professor was caught on tape telling her class
Speaker 2: that Western media pedaled fake news that hermas had used
Speaker 2: sexual violence on October seven.
Speaker 19: Have a look this article that was written by The
Speaker 19: New York Times. Scream without words, screams without words, how
Speaker 19: her mus weaponize sexual violence on October seventh is one
Speaker 19: that time and again was proven wrong. That witnesses, they
Speaker 19: supposedly had said they never you know, that never.
Speaker 15: Happened to them.
Speaker 19: The sources were attracted all kinds of things to prove that,
Speaker 19: you know that this story was really you know, it
Speaker 19: was not a real story. That a lot of what
Speaker 19: was in this article was not true.
Speaker 2: In fact, it's the words she's uttering that are untrue.
Speaker 2: The rape of women on October seven has been proved
Speaker 2: over and over again.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 2: Full credit to Alexi Demitriadi for obtaining that amazing and
Speaker 2: shocking audio, and his reporting in this space has been exceptional.
Speaker 3: And this comes just.
Speaker 2: Days after the University rewarded pro Palestinian protesters on campus
Speaker 2: by inviting them to review their defense and security research ties.
Speaker 2: And if this goes ahead, it could mean a boycott
Speaker 2: of israel products of Israeli companies. Meanwhile, the young and
Speaker 2: ignorant on social media, and not just the young, but
Speaker 2: the old and ignorant on social media are all sharing
Speaker 2: all eyes on Rafa posts. They've reportedly been more than
Speaker 2: forty million shares. And this is somewhat depressing because where
Speaker 2: were those forty million people on October seven? Where were
Speaker 2: the all eyes on Israel? Where have those forty million
Speaker 2: people been When it comes to our hostages were still
Speaker 2: being held by Hamas we're to discuss all of this,
Speaker 2: The liberal MP Julian Lisa joins me. Now, Julian, thank
Speaker 2: you very much for your time.
Speaker 9: Thanks Erry.
Speaker 2: Look, let's start with this social media trend that has
Speaker 2: been so upsetting because it's so one sided.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, let me say to anybody who's put this tile up,
Speaker 9: if your eyes are on guars, a lookout for the hostages.
Speaker 9: If your eyes are on Rafa, look out for the hostages,
Speaker 9: because that's why this conflict is going on in the
Speaker 9: first place. We've got a situation now in the world
Speaker 9: where people whose knowledge of events is puddle deep want
Speaker 9: a virtue signal, so they'll post and repost tiles where
Speaker 9: they've got no real knowledge.
Speaker 13: Of the events that have happened.
Speaker 9: When the terrible terrorist attacks happened on the seventh of October,
Speaker 9: the largest murder of Jews in a single day since
Speaker 9: the Holocaust, dreadful rapes and dismemberment of bodies, the abductions
Speaker 9: and so on, where was the Jewish Lives Matter moment?
Speaker 9: Where was the Ride with Me movement? Where was the
Speaker 9: all eyes on Israel moment? There just seems to be online,
Speaker 9: particularly among people who want to sort of become coctivists,
Speaker 9: a complete bias against Israel and a bias against Jewish people.
Speaker 2: Not only wasn't there a social media movement for Israel,
Speaker 2: but it was the opposite. People took to the streets
Speaker 2: against Israel. I still don't understand.
Speaker 9: Well, that's right, and this is even before the operation
Speaker 9: in Gaza exactly.
Speaker 2: I think the other thing is that people, including our
Speaker 2: foreign minister, keep putting pressure on Israel to have a
Speaker 2: humanitarian ceasefire. Why are there no calls for her muster
Speaker 2: surrender for her Musk to stop hiding using women and
Speaker 2: children as human shields, and no pressure on her Musk
Speaker 2: to return the hostages.
Speaker 9: Well, they're absolutely right. This would all be over tomorrow
Speaker 9: if Hermas released the hostages, if they disabled their infrastructure,
Speaker 9: and if they surrendered, that's effectively what would bring this
Speaker 9: war to an end. And there's no pressure on them.
Speaker 9: In fact, Australia and other Western governments are giving them
Speaker 9: a sort of a free pass by doing things at
Speaker 9: the un which actually advantages the Hamas position, by improving
Speaker 9: the status of a Palestinian state at the United Nations.
Speaker 9: And I think that's a terrible thing. I think it
Speaker 9: lacks the moral clarity that we're also desperately needing at
Speaker 9: this time.
Speaker 2: Now, we just saw what amounts to a clear false
Speaker 2: narrative peddled by a professor at a university saying that
Speaker 2: a New York Times article that documented the October seven
Speaker 2: sexual violence against women and rapes.
Speaker 3: Is fake news. I mean, this is appalling.
Speaker 9: I'm disgusted that this is happening at a university in Australia.
Speaker 9: I'm disgusted because of the way in which it degrades
Speaker 9: and doesn't give respect to the women who went through
Speaker 9: that terrible ordeal. Har Mus wanted to know, wanted us
Speaker 9: to know exactly what they did. That's why they wore
Speaker 9: the body cameras while they committed their crimes. That's why
Speaker 9: we've seen this week the release of videos, or it
Speaker 9: may have been last week of hermas saying these are
Speaker 9: the women that we're going to get pregnant. In other words,
Speaker 9: these are the women that we're going.
Speaker 1: To pack rape.
Speaker 9: We've all seen the images earlier in the piece of
Speaker 9: women come out with bloody pants and so on. I mean,
Speaker 9: this is just disgusting. I am concerned that ordinary Australians
Speaker 9: are going to Sydney University getting an education, trying to
Speaker 9: better themselves, and instead they're getting indoctrination by political activists
Speaker 9: masquerading as professors, which is all this woman seems to be.
Speaker 3: You couldn't be more right.
Speaker 2: That is spot on, and yet what we're seeing is
Speaker 2: Mark Scott. I mean, where is he on professors like this?
Speaker 2: Why doesn't he sack them? And instead he seems to
Speaker 2: be giving in to the encampment to pro Palestinian protesters
Speaker 2: by offering them this deal. But if they accept will
Speaker 2: mean that they don't do have ties with Israeli companies anymore.
Speaker 9: I think the president that's being said at Sydney University
Speaker 9: is the more you bully, the more you misbehave, the
Speaker 9: more you'll get out of the administration. And they're like
Speaker 9: somebody who owns a property saying to a burglar, come
Speaker 9: on into my house, we'll show you the silver and
Speaker 9: then we can negotiat about how much you take. That's
Speaker 9: effectively what they're doing here. I think it's the weakest
Speaker 9: leadership I have seen at any university, or indeed at
Speaker 9: any institution in our country. And that's why Shari I've
Speaker 9: been pushing for this judicial inquiry and antisemitism on campus
Speaker 9: because it's not just Sydney University, it's the whole sector.
Speaker 20: We need an.
Speaker 9: Inquiry, whether retired or serving judge, who can put Mark
Speaker 9: Scott on the witness stand, who can cross examine him,
Speaker 9: who can have a look at some of the course
Speaker 9: materials that students are being taught in lectures and the
Speaker 9: words that academics like this professor are saying, and look
Speaker 9: at the way in which universities are failing and have
Speaker 9: been failing for decades to or properly with antisemitism. The
Speaker 9: time for pussy footing on this issue is over. It's
Speaker 9: time for all members of Parliament to show that they
Speaker 9: don't support antisemitism in our universities by supporting my bill.
Speaker 3: Do you think Labor will support your bill?
Speaker 9: Well, I'm in discussions with the Labor Party at the moment.
Speaker 9: I have wide cross bench supporting relation to my bill,
Speaker 9: and I'm hoping that they will come that they will
Speaker 9: come on board because I think a judicial inquiry is
Speaker 9: in our interests, not just for Jewish students, but for
Speaker 9: all students who are going to university, because all students
Speaker 9: have the right to go to university free of harassment
Speaker 9: and intimidation, and also to learn the facts about things,
Speaker 9: not this distorted propaganda that seems to be taught at
Speaker 9: too many of our institutions. Eactly.
Speaker 2: And I think one great thing that you have going
Speaker 2: for you in terms of getting bipartisan support for your
Speaker 2: judicial inquiries, that you do have good relationships on both
Speaker 2: sides for the Aisle, and you know at times like
Speaker 2: this you need to draw on those relationships to get
Speaker 2: Labor to back this in because we do need a
Speaker 2: judicial inquiry or royal commission something with teeth to examine
Speaker 2: what's happened.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, the idea that we would send this off to
Speaker 9: the Human Rights Commission, which I have said as systemic
Speaker 9: racism against Jewish people. They said nothing about the events
Speaker 9: of October seven, four months They've had staff and contractors
Speaker 9: who've been engaged in doxing and the like.
Speaker 2: One pretend of the Human Rights Commission even admitted in
Speaker 2: Josh's doco.
Speaker 3: That they hadn't done enough.
Speaker 2: So absolutely, Juliane Lisa, thank you so much for your
Speaker 2: strong thoughts on this. Thank you show now coming up
Speaker 2: after the break of bad news for homeowners as the
Speaker 2: chance of rate cuts this year diminishes, Stay tuned, welcome back. Well,
Speaker 2: let's bring in tonight's panel, the Australian National Affairs Editor
Speaker 2: Joe Kelly and Sky News commentator Jason Morrison. Great to
Speaker 2: see you both. Look, Joe, let's return to this immigration scandal.
Speaker 2: I mean, Andrew Giles has been the scapegoat for the
Speaker 2: government for months now, yet now now we're seeing Albanesi
Speaker 2: being blamed himself for this mess because he tried to
Speaker 2: get Jacina Idern on site. Do you agree that this
Speaker 2: is an example of his own ideology impacting on National Security.
Speaker 1: Arry.
Speaker 20: What I think is that this is one of the
Speaker 20: most politically damaging decisions that the Albanese government has made,
Speaker 20: and I think that because it has a real shock factor.
Speaker 20: We knew that the government wanted to resolve this running
Speaker 20: saw in the relationship with New Zealand, that New Zealand
Speaker 20: had problems with undesirable people getting deported across the ditch.
Speaker 20: I think people thought it was fair enough to do
Speaker 20: something there, But in the last couple of weeks, the
Speaker 20: level of shock about the broader consequences and implications of
Speaker 20: that decision has been revealed and laid bare, and it
Speaker 20: is shocking. I think there needs to be accountability and
Speaker 20: a reckoning for that, and I think the Coalition can
Speaker 20: smell blood in the water in relation to Andrew Giles's
Speaker 20: scalp as Immigration Minister. But yes, I do think that
Speaker 20: the risk for ALBANIZI is that he elevated removing this
Speaker 20: obstacle from the New Zealand relationship over community safety, and
Speaker 20: that is a very damaging political narrative for him.
Speaker 2: I mean, Jason, you look back on those clips with
Speaker 2: jacintha Ardurn and how she was having a go at
Speaker 2: Scott Morrison for sending New Zealand citizens back to New
Speaker 2: Zealand if they'd committed crimes. And it's just so hard
Speaker 2: to believe that Anthony Albernezi capitulated to her at our expense.
Speaker 21: There was no need to appease her, absolutely none. It
Speaker 21: was done virtually as a gesture. It was done to
Speaker 21: show off and sort of looka's and there's a new
Speaker 21: sheriff in town. And of course what was not in
Speaker 21: the back of their minds at the time was the.
Speaker 1: Protection of Australians.
Speaker 21: That should be fundament italy at the front of their
Speaker 21: minds all the time. It's not in this And they
Speaker 21: did what they thought was good for her, not for us.
Speaker 1: And by the way, what the hell was.
Speaker 21: New Zealand going to do it always if we didn't
Speaker 21: reverse it. Really, i mean, let's get real about this.
Speaker 21: We've got an ongoing relation with these people. They're not
Speaker 21: going to say, well, that's it, Australia.
Speaker 1: You're gone.
Speaker 21: It was a moment of weakness and we're all paying
Speaker 21: for it.
Speaker 2: No Australian voters in New Zealand, that's for sure. Now
Speaker 2: new data shows Australians are feeling the strain of the
Speaker 2: sharp increase in mortgage repayments in the past year. The
Speaker 2: number of people falling behind are falling more than thirty
Speaker 2: days behind on their home loans has increased in New
Speaker 2: South Wales, Western Australia and Victoria and Joe. We've also
Speaker 2: seen inflation climb to three point six percent in the
Speaker 2: year to April. It's now possible that there's going to
Speaker 2: be a rate hike in August, whereas the government had
Speaker 2: been hoping that rates would fall by the end of
Speaker 2: the year.
Speaker 20: Look, this is a really big challenge for the government.
Speaker 20: We had that surprise uptick, as you said, Cherry, in April,
Speaker 20: inflation up to three point six from three point five
Speaker 20: percent in March. I think the risk for the government
Speaker 20: is that it has handed down and in an expansionary budget,
Speaker 20: it's tried to buy a rate cut, but a lot
Speaker 20: of the economists say the Reserve Bank will look through that.
Speaker 20: We have the conventional wisdom from most economists saying that
Speaker 20: rates will be higher from longer. That there are some
Speaker 20: hawks out there. Warren Hergan among them, saying that he
Speaker 20: thinks that you know, it's even chance that the Reserve
Speaker 20: Bank might be tempted to hike. Now, if that happens,
Speaker 20: it is a political catastrophe for Jim Chalmers and Labor
Speaker 20: and it shows that they brought down the wrong budget
Speaker 20: for the times and mischarged that inflation challenge.
Speaker 3: What do you think about this, Jason?
Speaker 2: Do you think the government's budget will be blamed if
Speaker 2: inflation continues to inch up and the RBA decides it
Speaker 2: has to raise rates.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 21: I have a more broader view about it. I don't
Speaker 21: sit in blame and the budget. I blame government's involvement
Speaker 21: and interference in so many things that are naturally pushing
Speaker 21: prices up. I mean, we're about to go through a
Speaker 21: period where exercises will rise on everything, where tolls will
Speaker 21: go up in New South Wales and parts of Queensland
Speaker 21: as well because governments make stupid decisions and don't want
Speaker 21: to act on it. And then at the same time
Speaker 21: you've got council rates on the rise being pushed up here,
Speaker 21: there and everywhere, and you know, electricity prices.
Speaker 1: Did we mention that all of these things?
Speaker 21: I think that government could actually have an impact on
Speaker 21: pushing down.
Speaker 1: On but they choose to not.
Speaker 21: Act or overact and we end up paying for it.
Speaker 21: So the budget to me, is a small part of
Speaker 21: the story. The real part of the story is everything
Speaker 21: else they just do automatically, and that's push up the price.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, just quickly before we go, there are reports today
Speaker 2: that the PM gave an ironclad guarantee to big business
Speaker 2: not to include a so called climate trigger in environment
Speaker 2: legislation that would stock new coal and gas mines being
Speaker 2: open and Joe. There are now calls for the PM
Speaker 2: to explain if he did give this commitment. But if
Speaker 2: he did, why the secrecy over it.
Speaker 20: Well, I think that's exactly the point, Cherry. I think
Speaker 20: what everyone wants to know, including the business community, is
Speaker 20: what is the government's position. So Tanya Plitisak previously said
Speaker 20: this wasn't going to be included in the APBC, Anthony
Speaker 20: Alberanzi seems to be mudding the waters somewhat. This is
Speaker 20: a Greens proposal and essentially it would add another layer
Speaker 20: of bureaucracy regulation for major projects going ahead based on
Speaker 20: their emissions footprint, and some of the projects which might
Speaker 20: not go ahead as a result of this would actually
Speaker 20: be those projects that are needed in the transition to
Speaker 20: net zero. So you can understand why the business Council
Speaker 20: is concerned and I think instead of the confusing answer
Speaker 20: that the Prime Minister gave in question time today, he
Speaker 20: needs to be clear about what Labour's position is on
Speaker 20: many things.
Speaker 2: Joe Kelly, Jason Morris, and thank you very much for
Speaker 2: your treasure. Now, after the break, we'll cross live to
Speaker 2: Washington for the latest from Donald Trump's hush money trial.
Speaker 3: Annalise Nielsen would join me next.
Speaker 2: Let's bring in now Sky News's Washington correspondent Analise Nielsen. Analise,
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining us now. Donald Trump's
Speaker 2: hush money trial is massive news. The jury asked to
Speaker 2: see fresh evidence again yesterday. What other testimony did they
Speaker 2: want to re examine?
Speaker 18: Yeah, Look, this is the really interesting bit because this
Speaker 18: is all we really have access to to gain an
Speaker 18: idea of what the jury is thinking while they're deliberating. Remember,
Speaker 18: in this case, like any criminal case, just one juror
Speaker 18: going against the rest of the group is enough to
Speaker 18: have a hung jury and then it's all over unless
Speaker 18: the prosecution and the courts decide that they want to
Speaker 18: do it again. And so they've asked again to see
Speaker 18: the testimony. David Pecker, he's from the National Inquirer, and
Speaker 18: he gave all that evidence into the hush money catch
Speaker 18: and kill scheme work where the National Enquirer would pay
Speaker 18: people exclusively for their stories, but instead of running them,
Speaker 18: would bury them to help the Trump campaign. They've also
Speaker 18: asked to see portions of testimony again from Michael Cohen,
Speaker 18: and this is really important because this entire case, as
Speaker 18: much as the prosecutions trying to draw the focus otherwise,
Speaker 18: does rest on the testimony of Michael Cohen, because he's
Speaker 18: the only one with direct evidence that Donald Trump knew
Speaker 18: that these transactions were being misrecorded, and that is the
Speaker 18: crime here, not that there's any allegation of the hush
Speaker 18: money payments wrong, but if they want to prove that
Speaker 18: Donald Trump is guilty, they have to prove that he
Speaker 18: knew that these payments were being misrecorded, and that's the
Speaker 18: crux of this. But just to take a step back
Speaker 18: as well, it's very interesting in the context of a
Speaker 18: jury to be looking at something like this and a
Speaker 18: crime where there's no victim. There's been no victim giving
Speaker 18: testimony in all this, and so we're coming down to
Speaker 18: a big pile of paperwork for these juries.
Speaker 15: That's really tricky.
Speaker 18: For them to come to a conclusion when it's been
Speaker 18: so complicated, and the prosecutor took a very long time
Speaker 18: going through those closing arguments, No doubt there would have
Speaker 18: been a little lost as some portions after six hours.
Speaker 2: Well, there's been mountains of analysis about which way the
Speaker 2: jury will go. But it does have to be a
Speaker 2: unanimous decision, doesn't it And what do you think the
Speaker 2: likelihood is.
Speaker 1: Of that.
Speaker 15: It does?
Speaker 18: And of course this has been non stop news. The
Speaker 18: cable news channels have been running analysis and excerpts coming
Speaker 18: out of the courts all day every day for weeks,
Speaker 18: and so this is something that people have been watching
Speaker 18: very closely. But the issue is you never really know
Speaker 18: how jurors are going to go. Yes, this is a
Speaker 18: very democrat area in America. They do extensive vetting of jurors.
Speaker 18: They fill out forms you know where they work. The
Speaker 18: judge gets to ask questions in wider process to find
Speaker 18: out if there's any bias that would make them unable
Speaker 18: to give a fair and impartial analysis. From what we
Speaker 18: know of the jurors, there's potentially one who'd be leaning
Speaker 18: more towards a pro Trump stunts. But at the end
Speaker 18: of the day, they're all supposed to put all those
Speaker 18: biases aside and just look at the evidence before them.
Speaker 18: And so you just don't know how people are going
Speaker 18: to analyze all of that when it's in front of them.
Speaker 2: And how is this all playing out politically in the
Speaker 2: presidential campaign.
Speaker 18: Look if Donald Trump, I think six months ago, had
Speaker 18: sat down and tried to figure out what the best
Speaker 18: case scenario would be for his legal troubles, I think
Speaker 18: we're pretty much there. Every other case has fallen apart
Speaker 18: delayed until after the election.
Speaker 3: And this is the only one going forward.
Speaker 18: And it is complicated, it's rehashing all issues, and if anything,
Speaker 18: it's just driven everyone further into their own preconceived ideas
Speaker 18: of Donald Trump. And that's not me saying that, that's
Speaker 18: the poll saying that because no one's abandoning Donald Trump
Speaker 18: for support over this. If anything, he's had a bump
Speaker 18: in support because his supporters feel like he's been persecuted,
Speaker 18: that it's all politically driven. And then we've also got
Speaker 18: Biden not doing very well in the post because he's
Speaker 18: losing young voters.
Speaker 2: Analie Nielsen, thank you so much for your time, and
Speaker 2: thanks everyone for your company. This week, here's Paul Murray