Speaker 1: Oh good, are you bloody champs? Oh big yawn. I
Speaker 1: nearly dislocated my face just then, Tiff, did you see
Speaker 1: that look like a fucking wildlife documentary?
Speaker 2: It looked like that scene on the Mask where his
Speaker 2: chin drops to the ground and his tongue rolls out.
Speaker 1: I felt a little bit. I feel a little bit
Speaker 1: of Jim Carrey every now and then. Hello, everyone, Welcome
Speaker 1: to the You Project. And as it turns out, roll
Speaker 1: with the punches. Also, I'll do your intro for you.
Speaker 1: Fucking I'll do both as roll with the punches. It's
Speaker 1: the EU Project. It's stiff, it's harps, it's a Monday,
Speaker 1: it's two thirty eight. I just got back. Before we
Speaker 1: say low to you, I just got back from hanging
Speaker 1: out with Ben Shurry from Attica.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah right, how was that? Did he whip
Speaker 2: you up a storm?
Speaker 1: No? He did not, because we all know I've got
Speaker 1: food issues and eating issues, and I'd have to sell
Speaker 1: my fucking left testicle to get a table there. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure anyone would want one. But it's amazing. He's amazing,
Speaker 1: The business is amazing, and everyone who goes there says
Speaker 1: it's fucking incredible. So, but you know, when you meet
Speaker 1: someone and you like, I hope they're a good dude,
Speaker 1: you know, when you like you like them or you
Speaker 1: you know, what you know of them is impressive and
Speaker 1: you kind of want to catch up with them, and
Speaker 1: if you if you not know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Ben Own's a restaurant called Attica, which has been voted
Speaker 1: one of the top few restaurants in Australia multiple times,
Speaker 1: if not the best, and one of the top fifty
Speaker 1: restaurants on the planet, which is a pretty good effort. Anyway,
Speaker 1: he was on the show a little while ago, and
Speaker 1: we caught up today for coffee and chat, and he's
Speaker 1: even better. He's not even a better person.
Speaker 2: I cannot recall the discussion, but I can recall liking
Speaker 2: him and being yeah, I don't know, you have expectations
Speaker 2: of people, but also not really but I just remember thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: he's a really great he's really great. Great episode. So
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to go back and re listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good dude, good energy, nice human, down to earth,
Speaker 1: causes spade a spade, but also like gets it quite compassionate,
Speaker 1: Like I saw his his staff interact with him a bit.
Speaker 1: They clearly like him. And then we sat in We
Speaker 1: sat in Attica, just me and him, like in the restaurant,
Speaker 1: two people in the restaurant, Me and him. And of
Speaker 1: course I was the fanciest fucking thing they've ever seen
Speaker 1: in my black T shirt and my Camo shorts, and
Speaker 1: we had.
Speaker 2: The good shorts. Did you wear the newer ones?
Speaker 1: I wore the ones that are only three years old.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much brands making good work. But nice, dude,
Speaker 1: So shout out to Ben Shuri and the folk from Attica. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was nice. It's nice when you meet someone that's
Speaker 1: that exceed your expectations and is everything you want and more.
Speaker 1: But it hasn't been all and frills over at your
Speaker 1: joint today. It's been a medical melodrama. Today.
Speaker 2: We've been contending with the bullies, harps over here, the
Speaker 2: bullies out there.
Speaker 1: What the canine bullies or the yes.
Speaker 2: The canine bullies at the park can't just mind their
Speaker 2: own affairs. They've got to come out and take a
Speaker 2: piece of someone.
Speaker 1: So the very beautiful Luna, who is I mean, if
Speaker 1: she was a human, she'd be a fucking international model.
Speaker 1: She's so beautiful. She's the Claudia Shiffer of the Canine world.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of her. I don't know any
Speaker 1: fucking models the El McPherson of the Canine see. All
Speaker 1: of those are like sixty years old. Not that they're
Speaker 1: not incredibly beautiful women, but I'm trying to I don't
Speaker 1: know any. Do you know, off the top of your head,
Speaker 1: do you know a young world renowned model?
Speaker 2: We don't ask me. The one I think of was
Speaker 2: Miranda kirk Is. When I was sixteen and used to
Speaker 2: read Dolly magazine. She won the Dolly cover girl and
Speaker 2: then she's and she's just stunning. But she's think, I
Speaker 2: don't know, she'd be old than me now as around
Speaker 2: the same age. Is that young?
Speaker 1: I think? I think she's also four kids in or something,
Speaker 1: I think, But still, yeah, what I mean is she's
Speaker 1: not she's not a teenage model anymore. She's well, she's
Speaker 1: a world famous actor and model. And she's still married
Speaker 1: to Orlando Bloom. Was that her that was married to him? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it is.
Speaker 2: But I've got no idea. I don't know who's married
Speaker 2: to what in this world.
Speaker 1: You know people who are much more up on all
Speaker 1: this ship than you and me are yelling at their
Speaker 1: phone or their car right now. YouTube, dumb fuck stay
Speaker 1: with things like you and I are talking about self
Speaker 1: management guys. Yeah yeah, yeah, talk about talk about how
Speaker 1: to fucking get abs or something. YouTube, dumb idiots, stop
Speaker 1: talking about bucking entertainment. That's you know, so what else? So, So,
Speaker 1: what happened Luna? It it got bitten or what happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, she haded an altercation, which I didn't realize. I
Speaker 2: were the park yesterday in the afternoon. She's doing her standard.
Speaker 2: I throw the frisbee once and she just sprints for
Speaker 2: forty five minutes straight and just loves life with the
Speaker 2: frisbee in her mouth. And a big dog ran like,
Speaker 2: ran at her and ran with her and had a
Speaker 2: bit of a bucket it they you know, and they
Speaker 2: get really close and they kind of both went and
Speaker 2: she dropped the frisbee and yelped and run the other way,
Speaker 2: and I thought it she just frightened her. It was
Speaker 2: so quick. But this morning when she come in to
Speaker 2: see me, I was like, what's that little there's a
Speaker 2: little red mark on her neck. And when I lifted
Speaker 2: a stretch her skin back, a big hole in the
Speaker 2: back of her neck like it's ripped, ripped a hole
Speaker 2: right through her. Yeah, they've got very thin sensitive skin.
Speaker 2: So off to the we went. A couple of staples
Speaker 2: and a big bandage on her neck and hopefully, hopefully
Speaker 2: that will be the all she needs.
Speaker 1: Just like her mum, thin sensitive skin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but so stoic. I mean I would have been
Speaker 2: crying and carrying on and telling the world and Luna
Speaker 2: was just like, oh, oh yeah, that old thing. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: they happened yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well dogs, I mean that is weird, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Not that I mean, obviously it's not weird that they
Speaker 1: can't talk, but yeah, where like, if there's something that's
Speaker 1: bothering them, they're human needs to figure it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's no like. We were at the park
Speaker 2: for another half I just met was meeting someone there,
Speaker 2: so then I met my friend. We were at the
Speaker 2: park for another half an hour. She was running and
Speaker 2: bouncing around, not a care in the world.
Speaker 1: Oh well, it's a good thing she wasn't in too
Speaker 1: much pain.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, uh, I had a conversation. I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: to you this morning today about a chat I had
Speaker 1: this morning, which is often the way and people think,
Speaker 1: do you really People have said to me, you know
Speaker 1: the chats that you have, do you really have those chats?
Speaker 1: I really do have these chats. And so when I
Speaker 1: say this is off the back of it always is otherwise,
Speaker 1: as I would just bring up a topic. But I
Speaker 1: was talking to somebody this morning and they literally said
Speaker 1: to me, I don't coach them. I don't know them
Speaker 1: that well. But they listened to the show a bit
Speaker 1: and they know me. And they said, can I ask
Speaker 1: you one question? It was a lady, and I go, yes,
Speaker 1: she can ask me two or three. She goes, she goes,
Speaker 1: how do we find our purpose? And I just went, oh,
Speaker 1: that's that's such an interesting question. And it like that
Speaker 1: question operates on the assumption that we only have one purpose,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's how do we find the purpose
Speaker 1: or our purpose? And you know, we're just talking about that.
Speaker 1: We're talking about, you know, the idea that maybe we
Speaker 1: have multiple purposes. You know. It's like, not like your
Speaker 1: purpose is to is to go and save the world
Speaker 1: doing this. Maybe it's to raise a family, or maybe
Speaker 1: it's to become a world renowned academic, or maybe it's
Speaker 1: to raise a family and become a world renowned academic,
Speaker 1: it doesn't need to be. Or maybe it's to start
Speaker 1: a charity where you're working with people in need who
Speaker 1: who you know, require X, Y Z, and then maybe
Speaker 1: ten years later you hand over the reins to someone
Speaker 1: else and now your purpose is something different, you know.
Speaker 1: So just the idea that not only not only do
Speaker 1: we not necessarily have to have a single purpose, we
Speaker 1: might have multiple, but also that you know, like there's
Speaker 1: a fair chance that what you think is your or
Speaker 1: what your focus is and your attention has and what
Speaker 1: your your alleged purpose is at twenty five might not
Speaker 1: be the same as fifty five, and that's not good
Speaker 1: or bad. Things just change. And she's like, no one's
Speaker 1: ever said that to me, Like I've always thought that
Speaker 1: I have to have a purpose. And I go, well, like, we,
Speaker 1: you know what, as we make this shit up as
Speaker 1: we go. It's not like that's written in concrete anywhere,
Speaker 1: and even if it is, a human wrote it, so
Speaker 1: somebody made it up somewhere. So yeah, it was just
Speaker 1: it was nice and I was talking to Ben oh
Speaker 1: Ben from Attica and just the the idea of owning
Speaker 1: one of the most famous restaurants in the world. But
Speaker 1: also he sees himself as which he is an artist.
Speaker 1: And also he's just written a new book which is
Speaker 1: called Uses for Obsession, which I'm halfway through. It's fucking
Speaker 1: it's I mean, you know people who are creative and talented.
Speaker 1: It's like he could have been just an author. And
Speaker 1: I don't mean just, but like he could have not
Speaker 1: done the restaurant thing, and he could have been an artist,
Speaker 1: or he could have been an author or like anything.
Speaker 1: Like he is a creative. In my opinion, he's a
Speaker 1: creative and he happens to do food like he happens
Speaker 1: to be a great chef.
Speaker 2: A question, what's your purpose right now?
Speaker 1: So I don't think I have a single purpose, but
Speaker 1: I think I think the you know, if we go
Speaker 1: through the I'll answer your question. I have an answer
Speaker 1: straight off, but I want to preface it. So the
Speaker 1: whole kind of self reflection through to self actualization and
Speaker 1: then self transcendence, which is me having a purpose bigger
Speaker 1: than me. My bigger than me purpose is to help
Speaker 1: people in a nutshell explore, expand, and operationalize and optimize
Speaker 1: their potential. I feel like most people waste their potential
Speaker 1: in terms of what is possible for them, you know,
Speaker 1: genetic potential, intellectual potential, creative potential, professional potential. I think
Speaker 1: most people really waste a lot of what they have
Speaker 1: to work with because of fear or laziness or procrastination
Speaker 1: or avoidance. And not that I'm the high watermark for
Speaker 1: success by any means, but I don't see myself genuinely
Speaker 1: as super gifted. Like I'm not bad at a few things,
Speaker 1: but it's not like, oh, you know, we knew when
Speaker 1: Craig was three, little fat fucking Craig, Oh we were
Speaker 1: so gifted. You know, It's like that wasn't me. And
Speaker 1: so I'm really fascinated with helping people get past whatever
Speaker 1: it is that's in the way of them becoming the
Speaker 1: best version of them, which is a cliche, I know,
Speaker 1: But so I think my purpose is to help people
Speaker 1: explore their potential. But that's not a single thing. That's
Speaker 1: a multi variable process of you know, firstly recognizing, well,
Speaker 1: what's stopping me, Well, that's probably going to be a
Speaker 1: mixture of fear or self doubt or self loathing or
Speaker 1: you know, a lack of knowledge or whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of things. And you know, so many
Speaker 1: people get to fifty, as we've said a thousand times,
Speaker 1: and say this wasn't my plan, you know, when truthfully
Speaker 1: they didn't have an actual plan. They just had an
Speaker 1: idea or a hope of how things might work out.
Speaker 1: So I think my purpose is serving others in that
Speaker 1: way where and whether or not it's becoming the best
Speaker 1: parent in the world or in their world, or whether
Speaker 1: or not it's getting a PhD, or whether or not
Speaker 1: it's building a podcast, or you know, in your case,
Speaker 1: you know, building a podcast, building a great speaking career,
Speaker 1: being a good human, being a good dog slash cat, mum,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Like, I don't you know, I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people who are from the outside looking in,
Speaker 1: very very wealthy, successful rich, but I don't really consider
Speaker 1: them to be successful because I see what's going on
Speaker 1: behind the curtain. Like if the only KPI is things
Speaker 1: is stuff, then they're doing pretty good. But if we
Speaker 1: measure success in mental, emotional, social, physical health, which I
Speaker 1: do part of it at least, then some of them
Speaker 1: are poverty stricken despite having lots of money. So I
Speaker 1: think it's about it's about all of it. That was
Speaker 1: a long winded answer wasn't it wasn't it?
Speaker 2: Ever, that's not like you look at.
Speaker 1: I've never been particularly you know, I did get multiple
Speaker 1: reports which says Craig has a tendency to be somewhat
Speaker 1: verbose and loquacious in class, and I had to find
Speaker 1: out what verbos and loquacious meant to My favorite words
Speaker 1: now means I fucking talk too much. Nothing's changed. And
Speaker 1: I also infamously was told that no one's ever going
Speaker 1: to pay to listen to me talk, so I should
Speaker 1: pay attention in class. Well, sister Catherine, you were fucking wrong.
Speaker 2: Well you paid it to into that.
Speaker 1: I did. I paid attention to that, and then I
Speaker 1: ignored our advice.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because one of the main one of the
Speaker 2: big things that we spent a lot of time on
Speaker 2: at the beginning of our retreat was it Purpose, was identity, Purpose, Mission,
Speaker 2: those three things and how they fit and come together.
Speaker 2: And it's and it's one of the practices because we
Speaker 2: did we did two days of work stuff together, work,
Speaker 2: we'll call it, and then we hit the mountains. Then
Speaker 2: we hit this vast space that just shifts your perspective
Speaker 2: and so just all of this processing happened, and that
Speaker 2: whole idea of purpose sat with me, and I thought
Speaker 2: about it, and it shifted and it changed, and I'm
Speaker 2: still kind of figuring out how to best articulate the
Speaker 2: meaning of it to me. But it has it hasn't
Speaker 2: had a huge impact on how I see the world
Speaker 2: and how I see what I'm doing, and how I
Speaker 2: function and the choices and decisions I make, Which is
Speaker 2: funny because it can sound like a bit of a
Speaker 2: wank of a word, can't it, buck pet what's your purpose?
Speaker 2: But it does. Really it is a guiding light to
Speaker 2: understanding what you do and why you do it.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a really important component of the
Speaker 1: thing that I have spoken about a lot. And you also,
Speaker 1: which is living intentionally, living consciously rather than living unconsciously
Speaker 1: and reactively you know, where you just deal with shit
Speaker 1: that happens, rather than saying, you know, what do I
Speaker 1: want my life to look like, feel like, function like,
Speaker 1: be like in a year? And what do I need
Speaker 1: to do today to make that? You know, a possibility
Speaker 1: like one if we go like we're recording this on
Speaker 1: the fourteenth of October. If I go well, on the
Speaker 1: fourteenth of October, twenty twenty five. I would like to
Speaker 1: be you know, fill in the blank, earning fifty percent more.
Speaker 1: I would like to be ten kilos later. I would
Speaker 1: like to have started a degree in bloody communications. I
Speaker 1: would you know, It's like, it's pretty like the actual
Speaker 1: planning process is not that difficult. The doing process is
Speaker 1: pretty fucking difficult. But you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: wake up on October fourteen, twenty twenty five and accidentally
Speaker 1: be in a magical place because the universe conspired to
Speaker 1: make my life shit hot, you know, And so there's that.
Speaker 1: That's my ever present frustration. I guess with people who
Speaker 1: listen to a lot of self help, personal development, beavor
Speaker 1: or psychology read a lot, but I are always about
Speaker 1: to do it but never actually doing it. And I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to alienate any listeners, but it's like, there's
Speaker 1: got to be a point where you go and whether
Speaker 1: or not it's me they listen to or someone else,
Speaker 1: it doesn't because I'm just the messenger. I'm not the message,
Speaker 1: you know. But if you know, think about how many
Speaker 1: times we hear something which is true for us or
Speaker 1: relevant for us, or potentially transformational for us, but failure
Speaker 1: fail to fucking apply it because it's not the right time,
Speaker 1: you know. And I mean it's not really the right
Speaker 1: time at all. It's just because it's fucking hard, and
Speaker 1: so we rationalize not starting. But we're always have this
Speaker 1: i'll start soon mindset. I'll start soon. I'll start soon.
Speaker 1: I'll start soon. And then then you're fifty and you're
Speaker 1: still telling yourself the same shit, you know, And I
Speaker 1: know it's a bit of groundhog day here we come
Speaker 1: full circle in the conversation. But all the all the
Speaker 1: self help and professional development and all the conversations and
Speaker 1: all the inspiration, all the fucking clever words and all
Speaker 1: the all the you know, the memes and the whiteboard messages,
Speaker 1: and they amount to shit. If one of your reasons
Speaker 1: for listening to the show or reading my staff or
Speaker 1: TIF staff or whatever is that you want to improve
Speaker 1: your life, then eventually there needs to be some application
Speaker 1: of the information. Otherwise we're just building this kind of
Speaker 1: knowledge bank that we never exploit.
Speaker 2: I think what's tricky is the understanding the deeper levels
Speaker 2: of it, and unders until you can dig into the
Speaker 2: deeper levels and understand what is driving decisions values and
Speaker 2: what is drawing you towards these perceived purposes. What about
Speaker 2: what someone chooses as a purpose, depending on how deeply
Speaker 2: they see that, whether it is whether or not it's connected,
Speaker 2: and whether or it's going to work for them, because
Speaker 2: otherwise we look at surface level stuff, my purpose to
Speaker 2: make this change to these people in whatever industry or
Speaker 2: area of life. If it's very surface level and you're
Speaker 2: not understanding really what you are connected to underneath that.
Speaker 2: Like for me, I realized two really big things that
Speaker 2: drive me, or maybe the biggest driver for me in
Speaker 2: one of my values was integrity. And I realized how
Speaker 2: many times I have pulled back on executing great ideas
Speaker 2: or services because of my fear of not being enough
Speaker 2: or good enough or smart enough or gonna bring the
Speaker 2: results enough for that to be something of integrity. So
Speaker 2: because I think, well, I don't know if I'm I
Speaker 2: feel like a fraud. So if I don't bring the
Speaker 2: results for this great idea, then I'm not a person
Speaker 2: of integrity, and that makes me stop. And then certain
Speaker 2: I've been abs with why people self sabotage over the years,
Speaker 2: because there's been times I don't understand why I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: But I think integrity is you wanting to do something,
Speaker 1: trying to do it, fucking up and then talking about
Speaker 1: how you fucked up and what you learned. That's integrity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: integuity doesn't necessarily equate to I did a thing and
Speaker 1: I succeeded. Like the fact that you are living in
Speaker 1: with integrity to me is about being raw and real
Speaker 1: and honest and walking your talk like it's about. Uh,
Speaker 1: is how I actually live a reflection of what I say.
Speaker 1: And this is one of my pet peeves in social
Speaker 1: media in general. And yes, there's some great stuff in
Speaker 1: social media, but I just think there's a huge, huge
Speaker 1: amount of people who just say shit that's not true
Speaker 1: or shit that they don't actually do. That annoys me,
Speaker 1: and it should't annoy me. That's a flaw in me.
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm I mean, I know people who
Speaker 1: say one thing publicly and do another. I know them.
Speaker 1: I would never name them, but I could name them
Speaker 1: where how they live is not actually how they represent
Speaker 1: themselves to the public. I'm like, you have fucking zero integrity,
Speaker 1: and I don't respect you, you know, I'd rather And
Speaker 1: what I don't get is I actually think when people
Speaker 1: are real like and I understand why some people don't
Speaker 1: share some things, of course, but when you're trying and
Speaker 1: fucking up, sometimes winning, sometimes losing, sometimes getting embarrassed, sometimes
Speaker 1: getting you know whatever, a round of applause and everything
Speaker 1: in between. But and you share that, people people relate
Speaker 1: to you more. Yeah, you know, when you operate with
Speaker 1: integrity and you do you know, like five minutes before
Speaker 1: we did this, not five fifteen minutes before we did
Speaker 1: this podcast, Melissa rang me and went, which I'll tell
Speaker 1: you off there, I can't tell you on air, But
Speaker 1: had a sponsorship opportunity with a very very globally known brand,
Speaker 1: and they want me to say something in the ad
Speaker 1: that I can't say because I don't believe it, and
Speaker 1: I said I will work with them, but I can't
Speaker 1: say this sentence because that isn't true for me. Also, firstly,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's true. I think what they're saying
Speaker 1: is not true, and I definitely can't say it. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's just like it's sometimes my integrity is
Speaker 1: a fucking financial handy cap. But I'm just like I
Speaker 1: said one even if nobody ever heard it, I can't
Speaker 1: say that because I don't believe it, and I won't
Speaker 1: say it just for money. And two, like my audience
Speaker 1: know me if I if I came on and went,
Speaker 1: hey everyone, Krispy Kreme, you know, look, don't have them
Speaker 1: too often, but I reckon you know, once or twice
Speaker 1: a week a couple of fucking couldn't do better. People
Speaker 1: would be like, oh my god, you sold out. Now
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not saying everybody don't ever, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, do whatever you like. But what I'm saying
Speaker 1: is I can't sell that on my show. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to encourage people to put shit in their body
Speaker 1: or what I think is shit. Okay, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: Crispy Kreme. That would be terrible for me to say that, definitely,
Speaker 1: but you can figure out, you know. And so that
Speaker 1: to me, that's you know, for me, that's part of integrity,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think, but also back to you,
Speaker 1: I want to jump back to your purpose thing for
Speaker 1: a moment. This is controversial. I reckon a lot of people.
Speaker 1: If you look at how a lot of people live.
Speaker 1: If how people live is a reflection of what matters
Speaker 1: to the most, then for many people their purpose is comfort.
Speaker 1: Think about how many people they prioritize comfort over everything,
Speaker 1: which is why they don't work out or work out hard,
Speaker 1: which is why they eat food that they don't need.
Speaker 1: That's that's literally sabotaging their health, that's derailing their genetic
Speaker 1: potential because it gives them comfort. I'm not there's no
Speaker 1: judgment in this, just observation. Right by the way, Have
Speaker 1: I done it? Yes? Have I have a prioritized comfort?
Speaker 1: Fucking oath? Has it? You know, if you looked at
Speaker 1: me over the years, you would have said, I was
Speaker 1: just I was all about fucking pleasure and what's that
Speaker 1: what's that term? Tip? What's that term where people and
Speaker 1: we're back? I just I couldn't go on we're back.
Speaker 2: I had.
Speaker 1: Hedonistic living or hedonism is you know when everything's you know,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I just think that. But the challenge
Speaker 1: for you know, when you say one of my values
Speaker 1: is growth and service and you know personal development or
Speaker 1: health or like that, that's going to be painful at times,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe often you know, on the journey. But yeah,
Speaker 1: so's it's that like there's the thing that we say
Speaker 1: we're about, and then there's the thing that we're really about.
Speaker 1: When no one's looking you know how we behave.
Speaker 2: Well, that's where I think that values and purpose need
Speaker 2: to Then it's a conversation that needs to happen together
Speaker 2: because there's the purpose, which is this service base driven
Speaker 2: and people can get messed up with how that sounds
Speaker 2: to the world. Oh, it's my purpose is to help
Speaker 2: you know how many coaches out there is like, my
Speaker 2: purpose is to help these people do this, this, and
Speaker 2: this is like actually, you're running an online course where
Speaker 2: you don't even meet people. Your purpose is to make
Speaker 2: a load of money the easiest way possible. But when
Speaker 2: you look at Veulock, for me, looking at my values
Speaker 2: and then linking it to why I love the aspects
Speaker 2: of the things that I do, it's changed the way
Speaker 2: like I come back and it's changed the way that
Speaker 2: I feel and think about the stuff that I'm going
Speaker 2: to put my energy into doing and the outcomes I
Speaker 2: expect to make and what I want to see out
Speaker 2: of it is very different because I now I know
Speaker 2: what I'm connected to and why it matters to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, and I think, well, back to the
Speaker 1: you know, people just doing stuff because they want to
Speaker 1: make keaps a dough and there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1: Either if we know what's going on, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're clear about well this is, you know, like someone
Speaker 1: like Alex Hermosi, who you know, he's all about helping
Speaker 1: people build wealth and build systems and monetizing things and
Speaker 1: programs and online this and that. And while I don't
Speaker 1: see to eye on everything with him, he's definitely better
Speaker 1: at creating wealth than I am. I'm fucking terrible, and
Speaker 1: like some stuff, I listened to him and I'm like, nah, nah, nah,
Speaker 1: that's no, not me. Then other stuff where I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're smart as fuck. You know, I could learn in
Speaker 1: terms of building business or building online funnels and creating
Speaker 1: products and services and all of that stuff which I'm
Speaker 1: not very good at. I definitely can learn from him.
Speaker 1: But also what I like about him is he's not
Speaker 1: pretending to be something else, Like he is all about
Speaker 1: business make and doe crushing killing, and he doesn't pretend
Speaker 1: that he is the Dalai Lama. Right, So I respect
Speaker 1: him because whether or not you know, you like him
Speaker 1: a lot. As a human being. I think he's fine.
Speaker 1: I listened to him on Chris Williams on what is
Speaker 1: It Modern Wisdom? And that was a great that was
Speaker 1: a great chat. I think I referred you to that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, ah, this dude is really smart. I
Speaker 1: don't align with him on everything, but he wouldn't align
Speaker 1: with me either. But you know, when people are up
Speaker 1: front and transparent and direct and real, I don't like
Speaker 1: even if they're nothing like me and we don't have
Speaker 1: the same values, But as long as they're being authentic,
Speaker 1: I'm cool with it because we know what we're getting.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things on Chris's podcast recently, I
Speaker 2: was listening to I Think It's Dan Martel. I listened
Speaker 2: to it a couple of times. I really liked him,
Speaker 2: and one of the things he said that I picked
Speaker 2: up on the second or third time was if you're
Speaker 2: not contradicting yourself, you're not growing fast enough. And I
Speaker 2: love that, and when sometimes hearing things like that can
Speaker 2: be really jarring because we can hold on to what
Speaker 2: we say. We say things, especially in people like you
Speaker 2: and I who are putting it out publicly, this is
Speaker 2: what I think, and it can be really jarring to
Speaker 2: go ooh, like, yep, I'm contradicting that now, Like I've
Speaker 2: changed my tune on intimate and fasting for females.
Speaker 1: Yep, Well that's I mean backflip. Yes, yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And if you I agree, I wouldn't when you say contradicting,
Speaker 1: I was thinking something else, but it is that. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: essentially it's.
Speaker 2: Changing incongruent, but being able to get new information you
Speaker 2: talk about all the times, you just don't say it
Speaker 2: in that way. Getting new information and changing your mind
Speaker 2: about something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I call it unlearning. Yeah, like that thing that
Speaker 1: I thought, I don't think that anymore, the thing that
Speaker 1: I believed, I don't believe that anymore. And the reason
Speaker 1: I don't believe it is because I got new data,
Speaker 1: or I got new information, or I had a new experience,
Speaker 1: or I had a conversation, or there's been more research
Speaker 1: or and I'm not emotionally attached to a particular idea
Speaker 1: or stance like you know how, Like you said you
Speaker 1: thought a certain way about intimate and fasting for women.
Speaker 1: You got I would I would say you got some
Speaker 1: new experience or insider understanding or something, And now you
Speaker 1: don't think that. That's actually a sign of fucking See
Speaker 1: that person. I want to listen to the person that
Speaker 1: never unlearns anything. The person that's been right about everything
Speaker 1: every time for the last thirty years. That's the person
Speaker 1: you don't want to pay any attention to because that's
Speaker 1: about emotion and ego and identity, because their sense of
Speaker 1: self is tied into being right. Yes, you know, and
Speaker 1: this is this is one of the challenges when you
Speaker 1: know you're talking with people who they basically identify themselves
Speaker 1: as a behavior or an idea or a practice. I
Speaker 1: am fill in the blank, you know. I am a vegan,
Speaker 1: I am a carnival, I am a Christian, I am
Speaker 1: a Buddhist, I am an atheist, I am a business owner,
Speaker 1: I am a podcast I am all these I am statements.
Speaker 1: So I am is literally my identity. I am no
Speaker 1: good at sport. I am genetically impaired. I am And
Speaker 1: then we basically tell the world who we are without
Speaker 1: telling the world who we are at all, trying to
Speaker 1: understand who am I beyond all the labels I put
Speaker 1: on myself.
Speaker 2: I did heaps of that as well over in India,
Speaker 2: and I've to put stuff in practice when I got
Speaker 2: back to not get back into the same environment and
Speaker 2: hold on tightly to that version of me that I
Speaker 2: was getting boxed into.
Speaker 1: How do you ever plan on for those who have
Speaker 1: been under a rock or haven't listened to the last
Speaker 1: few Tiff and me. TIFF's been in India and she's
Speaker 1: come back with I would say a different perspective and energy.
Speaker 1: I mean that honestly, like your energy is your energy
Speaker 1: is genuinely different. And I won't say who will throw
Speaker 1: you under the bus. But you were talking to someone
Speaker 1: very recently that you were doing the session with and
Speaker 1: you hadn't told them anything, and that like, what is
Speaker 1: going on with you? You're weird? Have you been meditating
Speaker 1: your debt? Like I don't know, Maybe you can share that,
Speaker 1: but anyway, but I just thought, do you have a plan,
Speaker 1: because when I've had experiences like that, I desperately don't
Speaker 1: want it to go away.
Speaker 2: Yeah I do. It's not going I will not let
Speaker 2: it go. I've got post it notes, I've got I've
Speaker 2: got shit written all over I've got different things that
Speaker 2: I'm practicing. And I went for dinner last night and
Speaker 2: I walked there and it was a thirty minute walk.
Speaker 2: And on the way there and on the way back,
Speaker 2: I walk at half the pace now and I can't
Speaker 2: even make myself Harry because the thought of making myself
Speaker 2: Harry almost invites that old persona back. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: we're not We're not rushing everything anymore. Like life is
Speaker 2: really good now, and you've wasted four years of it
Speaker 2: worrying about the next thing and rushing and worrying about
Speaker 2: all the shit that is not and you've missed out
Speaker 2: on so much.
Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. Why four years? Why did you say
Speaker 1: four years?
Speaker 2: I guess because I probably from the big shift of
Speaker 2: COVID and that was a really big time for me.
Speaker 2: A lot of things went on, But I would say that,
Speaker 2: and I remember at the time saying, are you just
Speaker 2: is this a trauma response? You do real good in chaos?
Speaker 2: You do you do good when when the chips are
Speaker 2: down and ship's falling down. So I was like, is
Speaker 2: this creating a podcast and a new brand and a
Speaker 2: new thing and all that that picked up real quick?
Speaker 2: Is that just is that all going to fall away?
Speaker 2: And it didn't. But I do feel like I stayed
Speaker 2: in that state, and I don't like, I don't feel
Speaker 2: proud of how I've been for the last few years.
Speaker 2: And I didn't know I was, and I didn't mean
Speaker 2: to be but I feel if I was watching someone
Speaker 2: else right now and knowing that was their experience, I
Speaker 2: would feel very compassionate and sad for them because I'll
Speaker 2: be like, you're missing so much, all of the little things.
Speaker 1: So when you say you don't feel proud, tell me
Speaker 1: a bit more about that.
Speaker 2: Ah, just what This is hard because I don't want
Speaker 2: to judge it because it just is and I wasn't.
Speaker 2: I'm not a bad person, but I just it was
Speaker 2: a very hectic, self absorbed, self protective, selfish headspace all
Speaker 2: the time, Like I'm so protective of me that no
Speaker 2: one can come in so no one can fuck me over.
Speaker 2: But that means that no one can help. And then
Speaker 2: I'm angry that no one's helping, and I'm angry that
Speaker 2: I'm angry that i feel alone, and I'm sad and
Speaker 2: I'm all of these things. Wow, but I'm creating.
Speaker 1: That Wow, Like fucking wow, that is that is really
Speaker 1: good awareness.
Speaker 2: Yeah you are.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this because we're on the I haven't
Speaker 1: even told you there's face to face, but you are different,
Speaker 1: Like it's like there's been a real shift. That's nice.
Speaker 1: It's nice, and that's not the that's not an adequate word,
Speaker 1: but it's for it's good to see, like it's good
Speaker 1: to see. And even even at the gym, you know,
Speaker 1: when I see you at the gym, like your energy
Speaker 1: is different, like yeah, there's it's like you used to
Speaker 1: come to the gym because you do or you did,
Speaker 1: you had that you know pretty much fuck off sign
Speaker 1: on your forehead like you're like easy going to a
Speaker 1: point and open to a point. But then it was
Speaker 1: like no, a fucking vault right. It was like one
Speaker 1: of those I picture those old in those old movies
Speaker 1: with the bank vault door that you've got to spin
Speaker 1: around the thing, and you know that that was like
Speaker 1: your heart like fuck off. You know, I can do
Speaker 1: the cheeky fun thing. But and when you used to
Speaker 1: hug like it was it was a Ron Harper hug.
Speaker 1: It was like almost like I know this is social etiquette,
Speaker 1: so I'll do it and it's just in an and
Speaker 1: not that it's like some big embrace now, but but
Speaker 1: your your energy is different to be around your physical
Speaker 1: energy and even when you yeah, it's it's it's nice.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm glad to hear that because I feel
Speaker 2: I feel different. And I said to some of the others.
Speaker 2: I one, especially with you because I work so closely
Speaker 2: with you, and I'm like, I wonder what the experience
Speaker 2: was like and how much you could see and what
Speaker 2: that felt like. I declined in today just speaking about energy,
Speaker 2: and I've trained them for a long time. Won't say
Speaker 2: hull it is or anything about the situation. But they
Speaker 2: came in and started talking and I can't remember what
Speaker 2: question because we sat down afterwards and had a session
Speaker 2: after the session and deep and meaningful, but I said,
Speaker 2: they were talking and I just stopped, put my hands
Speaker 2: we're doing pad work boxing my hands on my side,
Speaker 2: and I asked a question. I can't remember which one
Speaker 2: it might have been. I don't know what it was,
Speaker 2: but they just water works. They just broke down. They
Speaker 2: just cried, and we just had a big hug, and
Speaker 2: we probably had four big hugs throughout the session. And
Speaker 2: I said, you're going to stop and have a coffee
Speaker 2: with me after this, and we're going to do a
Speaker 2: whole other sort of session after this session. And thankfully
Speaker 2: I had the time after that, but it was beautiful
Speaker 2: to see that she had the space and the opportunity
Speaker 2: to do that with me, and I had to just
Speaker 2: stop and see the opportunity and ask a question that
Speaker 2: was going to matter in that moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's so nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah nice.
Speaker 1: I met similarly, I met there's a lot that used
Speaker 1: to work me for me. So I met one of
Speaker 1: my ex trainers who used to work for me. And
Speaker 1: there were hundreds, so I'm not giving away anything. A
Speaker 1: guy I saw him the other day. I only send
Speaker 1: two or three times a year, but and I was
Speaker 1: asking him how things are, and we ended up sitting
Speaker 1: down outside a cafe. He was getting a coffee, I
Speaker 1: was getting a coffee, and I said, you know, let's sit.
Speaker 1: So we sat and he gave me the rundown on everything,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's plenty going on in his life.
Speaker 1: He's not old, but he's older of course than when
Speaker 1: we worked. And then we then it just went quiet,
Speaker 1: and I went and what about you, mate? And I
Speaker 1: didn't say anything, and he just went and he's eyes
Speaker 1: filled up too, and I go, what's going on with you?
Speaker 1: And he goes ah, and then he just looked away
Speaker 1: and he's like, I can't talk about it. And he's
Speaker 1: just like you know when you just see and he's
Speaker 1: a dude, like he's an alpha male, like nice human,
Speaker 1: not an alpha male buff ed, but like a man's man,
Speaker 1: like good guy, and yeah, and anyway, I didn't push it,
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's just isn't it funny? You know sometimes
Speaker 1: when you're having this surface level conversation and it's like
Speaker 1: it's not that it's bullshit, but it's like it's yeah,
Speaker 1: and they're ah, yeah, good, and that yeah yep, and
Speaker 1: the kids yep, and the old mate yep, yep, mom
Speaker 1: and dad good yep, yep, yep, and it's all like
Speaker 1: it's okay, and we need those conversations because not everything
Speaker 1: has got to be a fucking deep dive into the
Speaker 1: human psyche, right, But every now and then you go,
Speaker 1: like you're talking to someone and you go, oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, but I just sometimes feel compelled
Speaker 1: to go, all right, so what else? And they go
Speaker 1: what do you mean? And I go, I think, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? What else? What else is going
Speaker 1: on with you? Like? What's going on? And you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes even with men, especially just if I go because
Speaker 1: men don't generally say something like how's your heart, mate,
Speaker 1: and that's it, just how's your heart? Oh? The amount
Speaker 1: of times where men have just like just teared up
Speaker 1: or you know, and it like you and your friend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's and not that we need to
Speaker 1: have a deep and meaningful every time, but yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just like people. You know, it's are you okay? Day?
Speaker 1: It's all that with men and women, old and young.
Speaker 1: You know when when somebody like you did with your
Speaker 1: client today, where you don't need to sessions done, you've
Speaker 1: done your job, but you go, no, we're just going
Speaker 1: to hang around and do this just because you know
Speaker 1: you want to help someone. You know. That's to me,
Speaker 1: that's when we spoke before about purpose. It's about that stuff.
Speaker 1: It's about the unpredictable, it's about the unpaid. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: about the end, the moment, the spontaneous reading the signs,
Speaker 1: just unconditionally just loving someone and being there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's so desensitized to experiencing somebody asking how
Speaker 2: we are and meaning how we are? But just I
Speaker 2: know that. I mean, there was that time after the
Speaker 2: Marklebust workshop I did where I was emotional and you
Speaker 2: just text through and how bluck and how are you?
Speaker 2: And that just sent me like it's the moment the
Speaker 2: caring door is opened, and you know that someone's actually
Speaker 2: not asking about how is your day? How is work?
Speaker 2: How is the people? What was the what is the
Speaker 2: surface stuff? How are you? It's a really emotional question.
Speaker 2: I just don't open the door to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well I think you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: the best at it, but I'm better. I'm pretty good
Speaker 1: at it, you know, but I still have. Like I've
Speaker 1: said this before, but sometimes I catch myself just being
Speaker 1: the persona not the person I'm like, oh, shut the fuck.
Speaker 1: Even my own persona gives me the shits, you know,
Speaker 1: because I'm ah, here's another story, here's another joke. Tip,
Speaker 1: pull my finger, he he you know, but sometimes that's
Speaker 1: the fucking Craig Show. It makes me want to spew
Speaker 1: in my own mouth, you know. Ah. Fuck, I exhaust
Speaker 1: me and I am me geez, shut up like fucking
Speaker 1: But I think one of the challenges too, is I'm
Speaker 1: digressing and fucking there's no rhyme or reason to this conversation. Everybody,
Speaker 1: I apologize, But also as a you know, as a speaker,
Speaker 1: you're part performer, right because you've got to get up there.
Speaker 1: You can be real and raw, but you've also got
Speaker 1: to create connection, you know, tell stories hopefully make or
Speaker 1: enable people to have a good experience as well. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So it's this combination of vulnerability and performance and psychology
Speaker 1: and sociology and reading the room and being of value.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, it's not just that where you
Speaker 1: can just get up and pour out your heart, because
Speaker 1: that ain't going to work either. Yeah, and so just
Speaker 1: like it's knowing when to ask the question to the person,
Speaker 1: because you might ask someone the same question in the
Speaker 1: wrong situation and it doesn't work. Yeah, So you've got
Speaker 1: to be all about that awareness and that like what's
Speaker 1: and their energy and your energy and yeah, it's and
Speaker 1: that's something that I think you can talk about, but
Speaker 1: you can't teach it like you can talk about it
Speaker 1: like you can't. The only way that people can really
Speaker 1: develop that is just by being in the moment and
Speaker 1: going in with that kind of I'm going to be aware,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be present. I'm not going to be
Speaker 1: thinking about other shits. I'm going to pay attention to
Speaker 1: what their word, their words and there and the non
Speaker 1: words are telling me, you know, and go in with
Speaker 1: a good intention, which sounds fucking fluffy, but it's true.
Speaker 2: And you also have to have such control over your
Speaker 2: own emotional regulation and the ability to remove that personal
Speaker 2: stuff in the situation. I know there's been times in
Speaker 2: the past where I see something in someone and but
Speaker 2: I am so emotionally attached to the idea around it
Speaker 2: that I can't articulate or be of any service to
Speaker 2: them because it's just going to come out as me
Speaker 2: being a fuck with or judge or you know, so
Speaker 2: you just I'd be like, I can't even say anything.
Speaker 2: I'm so irritated they do.
Speaker 1: That this way, do you know?
Speaker 2: It's like this way to be better? Like I could
Speaker 2: be more helpful if I could fuck my emotions off
Speaker 2: out of it so that I can convey some sort
Speaker 2: of information or idea to them in a way that
Speaker 2: they would receive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well again, good self awareness. But that's the I mean,
Speaker 1: like for better or where's all your emotions go everywhere
Speaker 1: with you your bias, your your flaws, your good stuff,
Speaker 1: your bad stuff, you know, and the stuff that like
Speaker 1: there's stuff that annoys me that it annoys me that
Speaker 1: I get annoyed, like I shouldn't like it. It's like
Speaker 1: I know that I'm the problem, you know, Like people
Speaker 1: that annoy me sometimes where it's probably they're doing something
Speaker 1: that reminds me of me, whereas they're not actually the problem.
Speaker 1: I'm actually the problem. But I have this aware of, Oh,
Speaker 1: this person shits me in the moment, what is that about?
Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, they're doing the thing that I do,
Speaker 1: or they're you know whatever. It might even be jealousy,
Speaker 1: or it might even be you know, it's I desperately
Speaker 1: try not to be that, but you know, still raises
Speaker 1: its ugly head.
Speaker 2: You've been my guru in and kind of the story
Speaker 2: I tell the people when I talk about boundaries. I
Speaker 2: was talking about my client with a client today about
Speaker 2: how you have set boundaries in cafes when people that
Speaker 2: it's not okay for you to be rude to me.
Speaker 2: I've told countless people that as an example of, you know,
Speaker 2: if you can remove your own shitty emotion and angst
Speaker 2: and just convey the message of setting a boundary, like
Speaker 2: if it's okay if you want to treat people like that,
Speaker 2: but it's not okay with me, so I either find
Speaker 2: someone else to serve me or be kind like that
Speaker 2: is that is God in the ability to begin understanding
Speaker 2: that setting a boundary doesn't mean that you're telling someone
Speaker 2: what to do to you. You're just saying you can
Speaker 2: do that, but you can't do I won't accept it
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that's just it's true. I won't let
Speaker 1: people be rude to me, or I'll walk away or on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's like, also, neither should I be rude to
Speaker 1: anyone else ever, I mean even you know, I mean
Speaker 1: in extreme situations, if someone's doing something fucking violent or
Speaker 1: dangerous to someone, that's different. But in general terms, you know,
Speaker 1: there have been times when I have been rude, or
Speaker 1: I have been inconsiderate, or I have been unaware, And
Speaker 1: every time that I realized that, I apologize unequivocally, and
Speaker 1: I go, that was one hundred percent me, zero percent you.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, But I think what is interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: to that comment that you made about the cafe and
Speaker 1: if you missed that, what tip's talking about it everyone.
Speaker 1: I've spoken a few times about how when people are
Speaker 1: rude to me, I just stopped them and say it's
Speaker 1: not okay. It's not okay with me that you're rude
Speaker 1: to me. So if you want to be rude, that's cool,
Speaker 1: but don't be rude to me, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's people get a shock, and nobody ever goes off.
Speaker 1: Most people either totally change their tune or go away
Speaker 1: and find somebody else. I say, listen, find me a
Speaker 1: customer service person who's not rude, or you stop being rude.
Speaker 1: They're the two options. But you being rude to me
Speaker 1: and me putting up with it, that's not one of
Speaker 1: the options. So you figure it out. But when when
Speaker 1: you do that, but you're not screaming, and you're not
Speaker 1: jumping up and down, and you're not getting elevated, and
Speaker 1: you're not being emotional, you're just, you know, a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, people are. People don't know how to respond sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know. And I remember, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: may have told this story once or twice, but in
Speaker 1: sixty six years so I'm sure most people haven't heard it.
Speaker 1: But I had a lady that I trained, so she
Speaker 1: was my client for quite a while, and when she
Speaker 1: first started training with me, I don't know if I've
Speaker 1: ever told you this, but she was so fucking rude
Speaker 1: to me, and like she treated me like a servant
Speaker 1: or you know, the hired help. Like the way that
Speaker 1: she spoke to me, was so denigrating and so so
Speaker 1: much talking down, like I was lucky to have her
Speaker 1: as a client, and I just I fixed that in
Speaker 1: fucking seventeen seconds. And anyway, she was rude to me
Speaker 1: the first session, and I gave her the benefit of
Speaker 1: the doubt. And then second session, and by the way,
Speaker 1: you know, quite well known, very very wealthy, like fucking
Speaker 1: more wealth than I would ever will ever have all that,
Speaker 1: and that's cool, well done, you're rich, well done. Cool.
Speaker 1: But so the second session, halfway through, same just treating
Speaker 1: me like shit. And I just said, I took her
Speaker 1: into my office at the gym and I just said,
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know. I said this whole the
Speaker 1: way that you talk to me, and I just said,
Speaker 1: it's not okay. I don't you know. I don't need
Speaker 1: to train you. I'm training you because you want to be.
Speaker 1: I've got lots of other clients, I've got lots of stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm real busy. You're not doing me a favor. And
Speaker 1: when I pointed out the way that she spoke to
Speaker 1: me was she was rude, she was super apologetic, embarrassed
Speaker 1: and truly didn't I don't think she really knew what
Speaker 1: she was doing, and I explained her, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole kind of what's it like being around me? I said,
Speaker 1: maybe you don't know or realize, and if you don't,
Speaker 1: that's good, that would explain it. I said, but wow,
Speaker 1: the way that you come across like you have the
Speaker 1: biggest fucking superiority complex of all time, you know, and
Speaker 1: you're just another fucking human in the gym lifting shit,
Speaker 1: you're not special, and you can't talk to me or
Speaker 1: anyone like that, not here. And she apologized, and it
Speaker 1: was different forever from then, you know, And I think
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't know how we got to this conversation,
Speaker 1: but I think sometimes it's as long as you're speaking
Speaker 1: to people with a level of care and insight and
Speaker 1: compassion and you're not you know, you're not elevating and
Speaker 1: you're not you're not meeting them in aggression or whatever.
Speaker 1: I think it's that can produce good outcomes.
Speaker 2: Where did you learn or how were you influenced to
Speaker 2: get to that point? Did someone teach you or show
Speaker 2: you or guide you or was it amalgamation of some
Speaker 2: of the.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was just a lot of a lot of conversations,
Speaker 1: Like I don't. I don't. I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is a silly thing to say, but I've spent
Speaker 1: my life having conversations like a lot, all day every day,
Speaker 1: training people. And I remember, like I started working in
Speaker 1: gyms at eighteen, and all day every day I was
Speaker 1: writing programs, talking to people, you know, full on just
Speaker 1: I was never sitting around looking at a computer. I
Speaker 1: was talking to people all day on the gym floor,
Speaker 1: at reception, in the assessment room, taking people through shit.
Speaker 1: And then and then when I started training people one
Speaker 1: on one, and I started my own business, which was
Speaker 1: a business within a business initially, so I had a
Speaker 1: little kind of micro business within the public gym that
Speaker 1: I worked at. And I remember the way that some
Speaker 1: of the men that I trained would talk to me
Speaker 1: because they were more important in inverted commas. They were richer,
Speaker 1: they were older, they were smarter in inverted commas, and
Speaker 1: they treated me like a low level employee, you know,
Speaker 1: And I was and I remember saying too, I was
Speaker 1: quite terrified. But I remember having basically an issue with
Speaker 1: one of my clients who was a prick, and I
Speaker 1: sacked him and I just said, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: train you anymore. And he was fucking flabbergasted. And why,
Speaker 1: I said, because I was. I mean I was. I
Speaker 1: was working in pubs, I was doing security. I was
Speaker 1: one hundred and five kilos. I was you know, I
Speaker 1: was not incapable of looking after myself or being if
Speaker 1: I needed to be somewhat assertive in that way. But
Speaker 1: in the context of my business, I was always uber respectful,
Speaker 1: uber polite, and he was a bit of a bully
Speaker 1: and he just bullied people and he tried to bully me,
Speaker 1: and I fucking I just I didn't lose my shit.
Speaker 1: But I remember where I'd been polite, polite, polite, polite, polite,
Speaker 1: and then I got fucked off and he was terrified.
Speaker 1: And I remember looking at him, thinking, ah, he's not that.
Speaker 1: He's not a tough guy at all. And I just
Speaker 1: said to him, you know, one, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: train you anymore. And I just said to him, I
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly, but like the way that he treats
Speaker 1: people as shit. Then he apologized to my said nah,
Speaker 1: and I didn't. I never trained him again because it
Speaker 1: was just it was just a C word at that time. Anyway,
Speaker 1: maybe he got better after that, but then I realized, Oh,
Speaker 1: why did I put up with that for so long?
Speaker 1: Why did I let that person treat me like shit
Speaker 1: for so long? It's not like I'm dumb. I'm not
Speaker 1: scared of him, I'm not like, why am I doing that?
Speaker 1: And I think part of my self esteem was, well,
Speaker 1: that's all your worth, creak, and you're lucky to have
Speaker 1: this guy paying you this money, you know. So I
Speaker 1: think it was my shit self esteem and self worth
Speaker 1: that made me at times allow people to treat me badly.
Speaker 2: M Yeah, I think. Well. Another thing I was talking
Speaker 2: about today was that idea of actually addressing things openly
Speaker 2: and with that idea that when I talked about this
Speaker 2: with two other guests before, one was she's been on
Speaker 2: your show? What she's doctor? H anyway? The opposite Hannah, Hannah,
Speaker 2: doctor thank you? The opposite of being like, what's the
Speaker 2: ask every anyone, what's the opposite of nice? And ninety
Speaker 2: nine point nine percent of the time they'll say nasty.
Speaker 2: And the opposite of nice is not nasty. The opposite
Speaker 2: of nice is honest. And especially with females, this idea
Speaker 2: of conditioning to be nice, to be polite, to be this.
Speaker 2: So what we do is we hold on and we
Speaker 2: hold on and we suppress it and we're nice and
Speaker 2: until we have to set a boundary. But because we
Speaker 2: think that's nasty, there's kind of a bit of self
Speaker 2: hate and self loathing when we do it. So it's
Speaker 2: a horrible experience. And the reality is you don't have
Speaker 2: to be nasty. You just don't have to be nice
Speaker 2: about everything if it's not doing you any good, if
Speaker 2: it's putting you in a shitty position.
Speaker 1: All right, now you've opened the door that I'm fucking
Speaker 1: fascinated with. Okay, what are the rules though about honesty?
Speaker 1: What are the guidelines because you know, sometimes I mean honestly,
Speaker 1: obviously I would never do this, but like, no, I
Speaker 1: don't even want to say that that's a bad example.
Speaker 1: But you know it's like, okay, let me use myself
Speaker 1: as an example. So there are times when there were
Speaker 1: times when I was had a high profile working in
Speaker 1: the fitness industry. I own multiple gyms, very well known,
Speaker 1: all that shit writing for the Herald's son and at
Speaker 1: one stage they're just eating everything that wasn't nailed down.
Speaker 1: I was borderline. Well, I wasn't borderline. I was from
Speaker 1: a highweight point of view, obese and like, if somebody
Speaker 1: had to come up to me and gone, you're a
Speaker 1: fucking embarrassment. You're morbidly obese, you own a gym, you
Speaker 1: don't walk, your talk, you're all of that would have
Speaker 1: been true. But that's not.
Speaker 2: That's been nasty. That's not being honest. That's that's been nasty.
Speaker 1: But what if what if? Yeah? And I agree, but
Speaker 1: then so how do we how and when do we
Speaker 1: exercise this honesty? Like what are the guardrails?
Speaker 2: So I think that if you are being if you
Speaker 2: are just expressing your own experience and being honest about it, right,
Speaker 2: then you know, like this interaction that somebody's having like
Speaker 2: I can't you know, I say, somebody's not getting treated
Speaker 2: well at work and they're always getting then and they're
Speaker 2: taken advantage of and they work over time and they're
Speaker 2: all of these things and just saying like I love
Speaker 2: you and I love working here. However, this is not
Speaker 2: good for me and this is my personal experience, so
Speaker 2: I need to set a boundary for me. And it's
Speaker 2: hard for me because I really love you and the work,
Speaker 2: but it's not good for me. So this is, you know,
Speaker 2: that is being honest without being nasty, so that person
Speaker 2: gets the choice to hear them and go, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: well there's all the nice stuff in there, that's all true.
Speaker 2: I've had plenty of people that are like, oh, workI shit,
Speaker 2: I have to do overtime all the time. There's such
Speaker 2: fucking assholes, why do you do it? But also they
Speaker 2: love them, they love their work, they love the people,
Speaker 2: but they're angry, and they've been angry for a long
Speaker 2: time because they're always feeling undervalued. Yes, and it's like,
Speaker 2: you know, you can say no to doing that extra
Speaker 2: work that you don't have to do, but you can
Speaker 2: explain yourself and say, hey, this is not good for
Speaker 2: my health, and it's not been good for my health
Speaker 2: for a long time, and I wish it was because
Speaker 2: I fucking love you, but it's hurting me. I've had
Speaker 2: so many of those conversations. And what's funny is I've
Speaker 2: been able to have those conversations on hypotheticals for years
Speaker 2: when I didn't have the ability to enter into a
Speaker 2: difficult conversation myself because the emotions around it were too
Speaker 2: fucking much. I couldn't do that. But I had the
Speaker 2: clarity to see other situations and understand it and be like,
Speaker 2: well that that could be so easily resolved because there's
Speaker 2: nothing bad in this person.
Speaker 1: Well we need to do a whole our times up,
Speaker 1: but we need to do a whole fucking change, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's like sometimes people come up to me and
Speaker 1: you know, like, for example, I'm doing my mentoring group
Speaker 1: at the moment on Monday nights. I've got one tonight,
Speaker 1: and part of that is I'm doing one on ones
Speaker 1: with everyone in the group, as you know, has a
Speaker 1: one on one yep, you know, And sometimes people unpack
Speaker 1: stuff with you, and what they think is the problem,
Speaker 1: ain't the problem? Like sometimes they're the problem, you know.
Speaker 1: And the interesting thing is when you talk to people
Speaker 1: about their problems, do they say I'm in this relationship
Speaker 1: and I'm the problem, Like it's always the other person
Speaker 1: and or if they're out of shape, it's always their
Speaker 1: mum's cooking or work, or they're sore ankle that they
Speaker 1: can't you know, it's and then I'm like, okay, are
Speaker 1: you any part of the problem, And they're like recoil
Speaker 1: in shock, what do you mean. I'm like, well, all
Speaker 1: this shit's going wrong, I'm not I'm not being nasty.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious, is any of it you like? It
Speaker 1: can't always be the other person, you know. It can't
Speaker 1: always be your dad or your boss or and so
Speaker 1: not everybody that goes my boss is a cunt, is right?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's not like all
Speaker 1: bosses are cunts and therefore anyone who's got a gripe
Speaker 1: is right. And it's like when Ricky giv says, just
Speaker 1: because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. It just means
Speaker 1: you're offended, you know, are you like? It can't? So
Speaker 1: that's the thing too. It's like when I say things
Speaker 1: sometimes people go, you're brutal, and I'm like, well, is
Speaker 1: what I'm saying true? I go, yeah, it's true, And
Speaker 1: I go, well, why don't you just say I'm honest?
Speaker 2: Because because we expect when we are going into conflict
Speaker 2: or confrontation that we want the outcome to be that
Speaker 2: the other person changes, and that's out of our hands.
Speaker 2: If the bosses are cun't the bosses are cunt. But
Speaker 2: what I have control of is the boundary I put up,
Speaker 2: and they're communicating to the boss that, okay, if you're
Speaker 2: if this is the way you're going to handle this situation.
Speaker 2: But I'm I'm not going to be handled like that,
Speaker 2: So I'm going to walk away right now. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to stay here and allow that to continue.
Speaker 2: So if you're going to continue it, that's cool. I'm
Speaker 2: not never be able to change it, but I'm not
Speaker 2: going to stand here and endure it.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, But what if the boss isn't the problem?
Speaker 2: Well, if the person is the problem, well they are
Speaker 2: going to continue to have a lot of problems, aren't they.
Speaker 2: I think? And you know, then you just start yourself.
Speaker 2: We'll watch the common denominator. How many of these problem
Speaker 2: people are in my life? And if it's most of them,
Speaker 2: we're starting to get a clue. It's not the other people.
Speaker 2: I remember when I started working with you, and once
Speaker 2: you pulled me up on something really mine and you
Speaker 2: just said, hey, you made a joke on this topic,
Speaker 2: this particular topic, and I'm pretty sure you meant nothing
Speaker 2: by it, and we're joking, but that particular topic, Like,
Speaker 2: I don't like it, it's not good. It just made
Speaker 2: me feel good, and I just felt like this was
Speaker 2: like less than one in having a difficult conversation with
Speaker 2: someone you love. Like I hung up from that call
Speaker 2: and was like, I felt so fucking awful. I was like,
Speaker 2: I never want to be responsible for making someone I
Speaker 2: love feel like that. Oh God, but also going, oh,
Speaker 2: you can say that to someone and it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be nasty, and you weren't angry about it. You
Speaker 2: just said, I'm just letting you know that that's not
Speaker 2: good for me, and oh God, Like I never forget it.
Speaker 2: But it was like those little moments for me have
Speaker 2: been so powerful, just learning, yeah, you know how to
Speaker 2: set about like I've used that since I'm like cool, Oh,
Speaker 2: I get to tell someone the behavior isn't good for me.
Speaker 2: They can choose whether or not they're going to I'm
Speaker 2: not telling you not to do it, but I'm going
Speaker 2: to tell you when you do that. This is how
Speaker 2: I feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting. I did not know that. Well, it's
Speaker 1: been real. It's been long. It's been long and real, uh,
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook Roll with the Punches, Crag Anything Up
Speaker 1: of the Year Project listeners. Thanks we did you see
Speaker 1: you next time?
Speaker 2: Tiff signing off farewell