Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's Harps and Tiff, it's the
Speaker 1: you project. It's Monday, as we record, it's the it's
Speaker 1: the sixth day of the tenth month of the twenty
Speaker 1: fifth year of the third century. And O dominie that
Speaker 1: is Latin for I think after Jesus died or something
Speaker 1: like that. But can you believe we're in the third millennia,
Speaker 1: not the second millennia, the third millennia? Who would have
Speaker 1: thought Tifts like couldn't be less interested? It is Monday
Speaker 1: in our fine city by the bay. It is. We're
Speaker 1: stumbling into summer and it just clocked over daylight savings
Speaker 1: here in Victoria. Where else is it daylight savings? It's
Speaker 1: not in Queensland, I know that. Is it in w A?
Speaker 1: I don't know. We don't need to have this conversation.
Speaker 1: Probably everybody's like, fuck, really, we tuned in for daylight savings.
Speaker 2: My life out and you're talking about and what time
Speaker 2: the sun goes down?
Speaker 1: Are you adapted? How quickly does it take you to
Speaker 1: adapt to daylight savings?
Speaker 2: I didn't go too bad it. In fact, this way around,
Speaker 2: I've been annoyed that I wake up way too early.
Speaker 2: Most mornings, and so it's nice to know as long
Speaker 2: as my as long as my sleep doesn't start scooting
Speaker 2: out the door on me getting to sleep, the waking
Speaker 2: up at six instead of five right now at this
Speaker 2: time of my life is a blessing.
Speaker 1: So do you do anything to adapt? Like you do?
Speaker 1: You just go I'm just going to go to bed
Speaker 1: at the same time as in the same Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just pretend it's not happening. Ever, since it
Speaker 2: all just happens on your phone, I just pretend, because
Speaker 2: you know how my mind gets in the way of
Speaker 2: a lot of things, apps I get out of the way.
Speaker 2: I just pretend it hasn't happened, and then my psychological
Speaker 2: bloody warfare doesn't get heads up on me.
Speaker 1: Well, you think about the amount of psychology that really
Speaker 1: goes into it, and people are like, oh, we lose
Speaker 1: it out. No we don't, we don't. There's still twenty
Speaker 1: four hours. And I kind of know theoretically what you're saying,
Speaker 1: but it's like your body doesn't know the difference. Like,
Speaker 1: so if you normally go to bed at ten, and
Speaker 1: now we've put the clocks forward to eleven, well, then
Speaker 1: just go to bed at fucking nine. You know yesterday
Speaker 1: yesterday's nine is now today's ten. So just go, oh fuck,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm confused. But anyway, whatever, whatever, whatever
Speaker 1: time your body thinks it is. But I mean, here's
Speaker 1: the here's the you know, the luxury that you and
Speaker 1: I have is for a lot of what you do.
Speaker 1: Oh probably more than more me than you. But you
Speaker 1: don't have a job per se where you've got to
Speaker 1: get up every day at the same time and get
Speaker 1: on a bloody train or get in your car or
Speaker 1: arrive at the office at a certain time. And I'm
Speaker 1: probably a little bit lucky compared to many listeners who
Speaker 1: don't have that flexibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you've seen that, like the stats on
Speaker 2: things like car accidents and hard and yeah, Like I'm
Speaker 2: not a fan of the whole.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, well, I think practically for a lot
Speaker 1: of people, because as I just said, with some people
Speaker 1: don't have the option of just listening to their body.
Speaker 1: They've actually got to get up an hour earlier. And
Speaker 1: because of that, like a lot of people have, Like
Speaker 1: the reason that there are so many increased car accidents
Speaker 1: and cardiac episodes and all of that is just correlates
Speaker 1: to less sleep, and when people are less well slept,
Speaker 1: then their bodies not recovered properly, and so there's more
Speaker 1: you know, cardio respiratory stress and nervous system stress and
Speaker 1: endocrine system stress, and so that equates to more deaths,
Speaker 1: which is pretty It's quite the common sequence of daylight
Speaker 1: savings when you think about it. But anyway, that's what
Speaker 1: we do. We're not changing it. I don't know that
Speaker 1: government are tuning in thinking fuck ups and Tiff have
Speaker 1: just blown the lid off that we've got to We've
Speaker 1: got to have a Head of government meeting.
Speaker 3: We've got to have a fucking We've got to get
Speaker 3: all the big wigs in and just rethink this whole
Speaker 3: Daylight savings because those motherfuckers are making some very salient
Speaker 3: points about their physiological and clinical consequences.
Speaker 1: Of this thing that we've implemented over the decades. We
Speaker 1: might have to just fucking swing the boat around and
Speaker 1: just undo that. We might have to pull the plugs.
Speaker 1: Thank god, pull the plug on daylight savings. Thank god
Speaker 1: we did this episode. Fuck, where would the world be
Speaker 1: without you and I solving problems that don't exist? Oh? Fuck,
Speaker 1: I wonder if that one person who's still listening is
Speaker 1: wondering why they're still listening. Yeah, dear, dear, you were
Speaker 1: summer person. If you could only have summer all year
Speaker 1: or winter all year, what would you have? Oh?
Speaker 2: You know the answer to that. I don't really I'm
Speaker 2: such a summer person. Winter is I really struggle. I
Speaker 2: really struggle. I'll get that seasonal effective. I'm a miserable
Speaker 2: I'm so miserable in winter.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the sun comes out, I feel like a
Speaker 2: different person. It's the best. What about you.
Speaker 1: On spring? I like this time of the year. I
Speaker 1: know that wasn't an option, but fuck it, I'm going
Speaker 1: option three, Eddie. I like it, you know, but if
Speaker 1: I could only what do I love?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: It's because it's middle of the road. It's nice, it's
Speaker 1: not freezing, it's not hot.
Speaker 2: It's also it's all of the things. It's and cold
Speaker 2: and shit and miserable and thunderstorms.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, listen to that high performance coach tip cook.
Speaker 1: If you want to book in with her for some
Speaker 1: fucking inspiration, don't do it today. Oh my god, you
Speaker 1: need to go listen to this and remember what it
Speaker 1: is that you allegedly do for and with people fucking
Speaker 1: get some perspective. I was talking to you before this
Speaker 1: episode about perspective and context and gratitude. Oh what a
Speaker 1: hardship living in Melbourne, dealing with spring. Oh tif oh wow,
Speaker 1: some people have got cancer. But Tip's got to deal
Speaker 1: with Spring. Everyone, let's send her a card. Fuck and
Speaker 1: hew for you.
Speaker 2: That is it.
Speaker 1: I'm what you call right now. You're unreasonable friend, You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Do you know what? Though? This is the conversation that
Speaker 1: I wanted to have with you, though, and what you
Speaker 1: just did, I do the same. I think we all
Speaker 1: do that something where we go we just put Mayo
Speaker 1: on something and we go, oh fuck, and then you go, yeah,
Speaker 1: is it really? Is it really? That? Is it really
Speaker 1: a problem? And we were talking before we went live.
Speaker 1: We're talking about perspective and context. And I won't have
Speaker 1: the same conversation with you, even though the listeners didn't
Speaker 1: hear it. But you know today as we record at
Speaker 1: October six and Jane O'Brien, who's a friend of mine,
Speaker 1: who if you have not heard that episode, I cannot
Speaker 1: recommend it highly enough. Not because I'm brilliant, not because
Speaker 1: the actual recording audio quality is amazing, but just her story.
Speaker 1: If you can listen to Jane's story and not be
Speaker 1: impacted emotionally and mentally, not be inspired, not have a
Speaker 1: shift in perspective, I was going to say, then there's
Speaker 1: something wrong with you. That's a bit harsh, but it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, like I love. One of the things about
Speaker 1: my job is I'm often talking to people who really
Speaker 1: are dealing with like, genuinely, genuinely hard stuff. And I
Speaker 1: don't know anyone who's dealt with anything harder than her,
Speaker 1: who was literally a couple of hours away from death
Speaker 1: and in intensive care for eighty two days and had
Speaker 1: to literally say goodbye to her children because she was
Speaker 1: dying on a given day. And obviously that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: And that's me giving you two percent of the story.
Speaker 1: But to listen to her talk and to listen to
Speaker 1: the way that she dealt with things and deals with
Speaker 1: things much harder than I've ever even had to think
Speaker 1: about for myself, it just fills me. Well, it fills
Speaker 1: me with a little bit of guilt for what a
Speaker 1: big fucking baby I have been at times, but I
Speaker 1: can't change that. But it just shines a light on
Speaker 1: for me. It shines a light on whatever the term is, lucky, blessed.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know how fortunate I am that
Speaker 1: I have the life I do in the city that
Speaker 1: I live in, with the people that I have around me.
Speaker 1: That in the context, you know, and I think about, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm us all back on my shoulder on this or that,
Speaker 1: and I just think how different life is life experiences
Speaker 1: when you look at your life situation, circumstance, environment, relationships, job,
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, all of the bits and pieces that
Speaker 1: make up your life when you look at it through
Speaker 1: a different window or a different lens. I got. I
Speaker 1: think I've cried on a podcast two or three times
Speaker 1: in two thousand episodes. I cried on that with her,
Speaker 1: and she, you know what, I'm going to share something
Speaker 1: with you, like, I've never met anyone who's just just
Speaker 1: got so many challenges but is so concerned about other
Speaker 1: people and not in a you know, when you meet people, Tiff,
Speaker 1: and it's like there, I don't know that they're very
Speaker 1: positive in all of that. And I try and be that.
Speaker 1: And it's not that it's not genuine, but it seems to.
Speaker 1: It's like with you and me, I think you and
Speaker 1: I can both be like super positive or a bit
Speaker 1: negative or and when we try and be the best
Speaker 1: versions of ourselves, right, but we're both flawed. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying she's not flawed, but when she talks about
Speaker 1: stuff and when she is coming from a place of
Speaker 1: love and kindness and encouragement and support, there's no persona
Speaker 1: in it all right. So the other day we had
Speaker 1: this chat, and later on she sent me this message,
Speaker 1: which probably won't want me sending, but anyway, she wrote, Harps,
Speaker 1: thanks again for the interview. If there's one thing I
Speaker 1: know to be true about you, it's not a matter
Speaker 1: of if you'll speak to us, sellout crowd in a
Speaker 1: big stadium or arena. It's just a matter of when Yes,
Speaker 1: you're a hard worker, but you also have a quality
Speaker 1: that can't be taught. You are one of the great
Speaker 1: thought leaders of our time. I am blessed to be
Speaker 1: here to witness it. Have a great weekend, Jane. And
Speaker 1: I read that, I'm like, I don't know where that
Speaker 1: came from. Like that wasn't prompted by me, I didn't,
Speaker 1: you know, And it was just like she sat down
Speaker 1: and that's what she thinks, and that that's what she feels.
Speaker 1: I think she overestimates me by the way, thank you, Janie,
Speaker 1: but just for somebody to do that when they don't
Speaker 1: at all need to do that, Like I already think
Speaker 1: highly of her, but she's so concerned that in the
Speaker 1: middle of her still dealing with lots of stuff, she's
Speaker 1: she's trying to make me feel good, you know, like
Speaker 1: she's concerned about how I am. She's cheering me on.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, I need to do better.
Speaker 2: How beautiful? What do you reckon?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: How do we sit in that space between getting that
Speaker 2: from other people? And I've probably asked you this before, like,
Speaker 2: but honoring our own Like everything's relative, Like everyone everyone's
Speaker 2: hardest thing is their hardest thing relative to what they've
Speaker 2: been through. So how do we honor ourselves and our
Speaker 2: circumstance and what we might need out of something, but
Speaker 2: also draw from that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. I yeah, because I think
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like you're saying, like, like,
Speaker 1: our pain is real, even if our pain is somewhat
Speaker 1: self created. Even like I've you know, where we can
Speaker 1: turn a one into a nine. You've done it. I've
Speaker 1: done it. Right, but nonetheless, as an experience, the nine
Speaker 1: is real. So the drama or the anxiety or the
Speaker 1: you know, we're not saying, and we're not saying you
Speaker 1: don't deserve your pain or you don't deserve the anxiety.
Speaker 1: You haven't earned this. No, that's not it at all.
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's two things. It's it's
Speaker 1: having an awareness of how you feel and what you
Speaker 1: feel and acknowledging that and honoring that and not beating
Speaker 1: yourself up just going oh wow, right now I'm really
Speaker 1: anxious or I'm really sad, or I'm really but there's
Speaker 1: probably not a lot to be anxious or sad about.
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, my experience is real, so're validating that. But
Speaker 1: also part two is not to then immerse ourselves in
Speaker 1: maybe self pity. I think that's a separate a level
Speaker 1: of awareness. And then part three maybe of that is
Speaker 1: to then to try to be curious about it and
Speaker 1: realize that you know, there are people in better positions
Speaker 1: than you, there are people in worse positions than you,
Speaker 1: and you've been here before, and it's going to pass.
Speaker 1: Like this is not a permanent state. Hi, everybody, we're back.
Speaker 1: Sorry about that, we had a little moment, we had
Speaker 1: a little interruption here, but technicality we're back. So I
Speaker 1: think that, yeah, like having that self awareness around what
Speaker 1: I think and feel is real and I don't need
Speaker 1: to beat myself up about it. Like self awareness is
Speaker 1: not self loathing. But also at the same time consciously
Speaker 1: maybe consciously working towards dealing with things in a way
Speaker 1: where we don't respond so dramatically or it doesn't impact
Speaker 1: us so much. You know. It's like that, how do
Speaker 1: we get good at performing under pressure or dealing with
Speaker 1: pressure or dealing with hard things? And it's by putting
Speaker 1: ourselves in that situation. So the thing that gave me
Speaker 1: a one out of ten, sorry, a nine out of
Speaker 1: ten stress response or anxiety response, once I kind of
Speaker 1: desensitize myself to that situation or that challenge or that
Speaker 1: task or that whatever it is, maybe it only produces
Speaker 1: a one or two anxiety or stress response. And that's
Speaker 1: not because the task has changed or the situation or
Speaker 1: the challenge, but rather because I've changed me. I think
Speaker 1: it's I think so much of what we talk about
Speaker 1: here and whether or not we're dealing with stuff like Jane,
Speaker 1: you know, as when you listen to that episode, folks.
Speaker 1: It's like her her story is almost like the ultimate
Speaker 1: story of self management, self regulation, self awareness. Where everything
Speaker 1: that she could optimize and everything that she could control,
Speaker 1: and there wasn't much, but everything that she could control
Speaker 1: she did, right down to her thinking, right down to
Speaker 1: her responses. Like there was a time where she couldn't
Speaker 1: she couldn't communicate, she couldn't do anything, she couldn't talk,
Speaker 1: she couldn't breathe. She was on you know, live sport,
Speaker 1: a machine was breathing for her. She couldn't use her hands, fingers.
Speaker 1: She was paralyzed, essentially, And she was telling me that
Speaker 1: in the middle of that, every day she just found beauty.
Speaker 1: She found beauty and the people that would come over
Speaker 1: every in every two hours and turn her over in bed,
Speaker 1: and she found a way to communicate with her eyes
Speaker 1: for the people that were around her. And she came
Speaker 1: to love the people that basically served her and looked
Speaker 1: after her. She came to love them and demonstrate love
Speaker 1: for these strangers that became intertwined with her literally with
Speaker 1: her ability to exist in human form. I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you know it's for me, It's I think
Speaker 1: I kind of need to hear these stories and have
Speaker 1: these interactions because it keeps me grounded because I can,
Speaker 1: you know, I can lose perspectives sometimes. So for me,
Speaker 1: it's like it's that, you know, it's all about context,
Speaker 1: it's all about being able to realize and you know,
Speaker 1: there's this thing that's going on, but then there's also
Speaker 1: there's this story, and I'm telling myself about the thing
Speaker 1: and what's the real issue, and then what's my story
Speaker 1: about the issue, and those are quite often pretty different.
Speaker 2: It reminds me of obviously Victor Frankel, and it reminds
Speaker 2: me of Captain Charlie Plumb. We've both spoken to him
Speaker 2: and think about the worlds that they created in Captivity
Speaker 2: of sorts, which is kind of what your friend has done.
Speaker 2: And I think about how much that inspired myself and
Speaker 2: you and other listeners. And then how to it's how
Speaker 2: to pick the lessons out of that that to implement
Speaker 2: that actually have the effect, Because there's the theory and
Speaker 2: then there's the stuff, but then there's the practice. There's
Speaker 2: the practice of being around good people or taking the
Speaker 2: time to appreciate, like I'm having a big thing at
Speaker 2: the moment myself where I'm just like, you need to
Speaker 2: stop being so busy. People sold you for years about
Speaker 2: how much you do and how busy you are, and
Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, no, no, not now. I'm like, God,
Speaker 2: you'd stop it stop And it's like you're not ready
Speaker 2: to realize until you're ready to realize, And yeah, so
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just thinking about the what like what
Speaker 2: did you draw from hers? But did you draw anything
Speaker 2: specifically where you went I'm going to implement this or
Speaker 2: I'm going to do something differently, or or I'm going
Speaker 2: to try and hold on this piece of change just
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 1: I realize how how much we can all but putting
Speaker 1: myself at the center of this because I can only
Speaker 1: control and change and manage me. But just waste energy
Speaker 1: on bullshit, just waste you know, Like and I'm not
Speaker 1: ruining the story because there's so much more than this,
Speaker 1: But could you imagine you're you're in bed and you
Speaker 1: know that this is the last day of your life
Speaker 1: and your children have to come in and say goodbye
Speaker 1: to you. They have to come in and go, Mum's
Speaker 1: dying today. We're going to say goodbye. Like that's even
Speaker 1: a hard sentence to say. And I didn't even want
Speaker 1: to say it, but that's literally the truth of the situation.
Speaker 1: We're going into a hospital to say goodbye to our mother.
Speaker 1: You know. After that, I'm like, oh god, yeah, this
Speaker 1: is I need to rethink. I need to look at
Speaker 1: life through a different lens. And I'm still working on
Speaker 1: that now. I'm still I'm still unpacking that conversation with
Speaker 1: her for myself. And you know, look, I mean, different
Speaker 1: things affect people in a different way, and the same
Speaker 1: thing affects different people differently, right. But I think one
Speaker 1: of the dangers of or one of the dangers one
Speaker 1: of the traps maybe I don't know if it's danger,
Speaker 1: but one of the traps of self help and personal
Speaker 1: development and behavioral psychology and podcast is it is easy
Speaker 1: to say stuff. It's easy. It's relatively easy to have
Speaker 1: this conversation. But really, for me, Craig Harper, not the
Speaker 1: podcast and not the whatever the fuck I am, not
Speaker 1: the academic, not the coach, but just me, the human being.
Speaker 1: Like I think what really matters, like who I really
Speaker 1: am is what I do when I'm not on this show.
Speaker 1: It's like, what like when it's just me and me,
Speaker 1: or perhaps me and God or my higher power or
Speaker 1: whatever it is that we think we have access to me,
Speaker 1: divine intelligence, whatever it is. I think that's really that's
Speaker 1: where I really get to know me better, because it's
Speaker 1: the you that nobody sees, that's the real you, you know. Now,
Speaker 1: I think I try very hard on this show to
Speaker 1: be as authentic as somebody can be in front of
Speaker 1: thousands of people listening. But I also know that I
Speaker 1: have an ego. I also know that I want people
Speaker 1: to like me. I also know that I want people
Speaker 1: to come back and listen to the show. I want
Speaker 1: people to go away and say good things. So I
Speaker 1: would be kidding myself and lying to myself if I
Speaker 1: didn't acknowledge that there are times when I'm not being
Speaker 1: fully transparent where you know where of course, there's a
Speaker 1: persona to an extent, of course, there's the I want
Speaker 1: to be the version of me that I think people
Speaker 1: will connect with, you know, And and we can't be
Speaker 1: everything to everyone, and we can't just show up in
Speaker 1: every conversation and in every moment in time just our
Speaker 1: rawst most base, falling apart self. But you know, for me,
Speaker 1: it's trying to think about all right, get away from that,
Speaker 1: get away from the attention and the love and the
Speaker 1: you know, the likes and all that stuff, Like what
Speaker 1: actually are you about? And what is this for? Like
Speaker 1: what are your motives? Like why do you do this thing?
Speaker 1: Why do you do these things? You say you want
Speaker 1: to help people? But is that really number one? Or
Speaker 1: is that number four? There's number one. Your fucking ego
Speaker 1: is number one, you know it's and without beating myself up,
Speaker 1: it's for me. It's self awareness. I'm trying to understand
Speaker 1: me in real time, like I try to understand me
Speaker 1: right now in this conversation with you that people are
Speaker 1: going to listen to, because I think and again, these
Speaker 1: are just my thoughts everyone. This is not it's not
Speaker 1: based on research what I'm about to say. But I think,
Speaker 1: like we all want to be loved and approved of,
Speaker 1: and we all want want connection. We all want people
Speaker 1: to think highly of us, and nobody wants people to
Speaker 1: think badly of us or them, and and you know,
Speaker 1: we all want to impress someone, and we all want
Speaker 1: to be safe, and we all want to be you know,
Speaker 1: and when you factor all that in, well, of course
Speaker 1: that's going to influence how you present yourself to others,
Speaker 1: you know, And that's not a bad thing, that's a
Speaker 1: human thing. But it's went I'm by myself. It's when
Speaker 1: you're by yourself and there is no judge, there is
Speaker 1: no audience, there is no external observation or critique. Nobody's
Speaker 1: judging me, nobody's listening to me, nobody's seeing me, nobody's
Speaker 1: giving me anything. It's like, well, what am I doing
Speaker 1: now when no one's looking? Like? What am I really
Speaker 1: paying attention to? What really has my focus and my energy?
Speaker 1: Do I really want to love and serve people? Or
Speaker 1: am I just a good fucking communicator who knows how
Speaker 1: to say the right things? Because that's a trap, you know.
Speaker 1: I told you this. I've shared this maybe once or twice.
Speaker 1: But when I was young and I had this pastor
Speaker 1: in a church I was at and he he came up.
Speaker 1: He was beyond wise. He was old, like super old. Compare.
Speaker 1: I was like twenty one or two. He was heading
Speaker 1: towards eighty and he came up and he said to me,
Speaker 1: it was in context. I don't know what I'd done,
Speaker 1: probably been a smart ass. And he said to me,
Speaker 1: he goes you have a gift, he goes your tongue. Basically,
Speaker 1: he was saying communication. He goes, your tongue is a
Speaker 1: gift and you need to you need to figure out
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life if you want to
Speaker 1: build people up or tear them down, he goes, because
Speaker 1: you can do both. Because it's like, if anybody had
Speaker 1: a bit of a go at me verbally, I could
Speaker 1: just slice and dicee them. And my story was, yeah,
Speaker 1: but they started it right, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Because I could because I was a smart ass and
Speaker 1: my brain works quicker, my mouth works quicker. And he
Speaker 1: said to me, you need to figure out what you're
Speaker 1: going to do with that gift. And it was like
Speaker 1: he just and I loved him and respected him, and
Speaker 1: no one else in the world could have told me
Speaker 1: that except him. And I'm like, oh, just oh, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: And if I'm being honest, I don't always do it.
Speaker 1: I try to do it, but I don't always do it.
Speaker 1: But I think that's the you know, that's the journey,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah? How often do you spend time with you, Like,
Speaker 2: how often do you really like, not just check on
Speaker 2: the TV or not just sit and rest, but actually
Speaker 2: find a way to connect with you and just see
Speaker 2: what comes up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do that more and more, because like truly
Speaker 1: do that more and more, you know, Like I listen
Speaker 1: to a million books all about probably one in probably
Speaker 1: every second walk I go on. Now, I don't take
Speaker 1: my headphones. I take my phone just because, but it's
Speaker 1: in my pocket. I'm not reading, i'm not looking, just
Speaker 1: because it tracks my steps and in case I've got
Speaker 1: to be contacted. But it's funny you say this, because
Speaker 1: I've had an awareness around that. I do spend a
Speaker 1: lot of time alone, probably more than people would think.
Speaker 1: I'll probably spend twenty hours a day alone because I
Speaker 1: live by myself, and you know, I'm not in a relationships.
Speaker 1: So go to bed alone, get up alone. You know,
Speaker 1: don't have brothers, don't have sisters, don't have you know,
Speaker 1: my parents live two hours away, and so there's a
Speaker 1: lot of alone time. But it's very easy to still
Speaker 1: be not fully present even though you're alone. And so
Speaker 1: I often feel compelled to just fucking pick up my phone,
Speaker 1: just turn that on, just to because there's a low
Speaker 1: level angs in just leaning into whatever it is where
Speaker 1: I'm just still and i'm you know, and I'm trying
Speaker 1: to turn off the creative part of my brain because
Speaker 1: I'm always thinking about someone something I can write on
Speaker 1: the whiteboard, a workshop I can do, like a topic
Speaker 1: we can explore in the podcast or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: But to get out of all of that, to get
Speaker 1: out of the busyness of the mind, and to get
Speaker 1: out of the fear of the mind, and to get
Speaker 1: out of the habitual repetition of the mind, you know,
Speaker 1: and then to walk through all of those bits of
Speaker 1: the mind and get to that door at the end
Speaker 1: of the mind where you open that door and then
Speaker 1: you walk through and none of that is there, Like
Speaker 1: for me, trying to get into that space more often
Speaker 1: is currently where I'm at. Yeah, And also and I
Speaker 1: don't even know what this means, but I've spoken about
Speaker 1: it a bit recently. But for me, just trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what a spiritual life for me, not for
Speaker 1: anyone else, not what I think people should do, not
Speaker 1: you know, there's no recommendations in this for anyone. It's
Speaker 1: just for me trying to figure out what is you know,
Speaker 1: what is the Is there a spiritual component to my life?
Speaker 1: Do I want there to be? What does that mean?
Speaker 1: Away from all the pseudo religious pseudo spiritual fluff and bullshit.
Speaker 1: What does that mean? Because I think for me, like
Speaker 1: the challenge is not to understand my mind. For me,
Speaker 1: it's more to get out of my mind. It's too
Speaker 1: like to get out of the cognition, the creativity, the thinking,
Speaker 1: the problem solving that it's to get out of all
Speaker 1: of that and to not think for a while, you know,
Speaker 1: to not ruminate, to not plan, to not strategize, to
Speaker 1: not try to be something. You know?
Speaker 2: And is it just walks for you or what's your process?
Speaker 2: What's your practice?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's walking and for me being outside. I know
Speaker 1: this sounds a bit naugh, but truly just being I
Speaker 1: sit outside in a chair and I put my because
Speaker 1: I've got a million bamboo trees, I put one. I
Speaker 1: put both feet on a different bamboo tree. So I
Speaker 1: just sit there facing the bamboo in bare feet, and
Speaker 1: I just put my left foot on a tree and
Speaker 1: my right foot on a tree, and I just turn
Speaker 1: everything off and I just I just do that for
Speaker 1: around fifteen minutes. Yeah, But I because I walk so
Speaker 1: much every day, I walk about ten k's which is,
Speaker 1: you know, the best part of an hour and a
Speaker 1: half towards two hours, and I'm listening to less and
Speaker 1: less stuff. There's a lot of Yeah, trying to quieten
Speaker 1: the mind for everyone is a battle, but for me
Speaker 1: it's and it's not quiet. And my mind's not busy
Speaker 1: because of fear or chaos or anxiety. It's just busy
Speaker 1: because I'm always just thinking about shit. It's more creative,
Speaker 1: it's more curiosity, but there's still I still there's I
Speaker 1: still think there's there's value in getting out of that,
Speaker 1: because life's not all about building this or solving that
Speaker 1: or fixing that or creating that. I think that's an
Speaker 1: important part. But I also think it's great to be unproductive.
Speaker 1: It's great to be still. It's great to achieve nothing.
Speaker 1: You know, it's great to just sit in gratitude. You know.
Speaker 2: When I came back from India and I started weakly
Speaker 2: going down to the Daninong's with no phone, no anything
Speaker 2: that was I think that's the only thing that put
Speaker 2: me into that space for a while, which I haven't
Speaker 2: done since kind of I started. I started some a
Speaker 2: course in in April ish, so it's been nearly six
Speaker 2: or seven months and I was thinking about it the
Speaker 2: other day and I don't like this I'm never not doing.
Speaker 2: I'm never not doing, I'm never not thinking, and I'm
Speaker 2: never not planning. And it puts my body and mind
Speaker 2: in a state of rush all the time, rush and
Speaker 2: urgency and like that translates to lack and stress and
Speaker 2: you know, just no presence. And it took me most
Speaker 2: of this conversation before I remembered the dandongs and went, oh,
Speaker 2: I did do it. I was like, I don't, I've
Speaker 2: never done I don't do it, but I did do
Speaker 2: it for a little while, right, Yeah, I find it.
Speaker 2: You know, getting out of our life and finding a
Speaker 2: space that allows that is really hard.
Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, it's kind of reminiscent of that book that
Speaker 1: e Myth, where you know, Gerber talks about you can't
Speaker 1: really you can't work on the business and in the
Speaker 1: business you've got to kind of step out of the
Speaker 1: business to get perspective. And this analogy would be to
Speaker 1: step out of your life or the I guess, the
Speaker 1: rules and rituals and habits and the momentum of your
Speaker 1: life to try and find a little bit of space
Speaker 1: and a little bit of distance. Yeah, because it's you know,
Speaker 1: you wake up in a minute and you're forty five,
Speaker 1: or you wake up and you're fifty, or you wake
Speaker 1: up and you're you know, you're me, you're sixty two.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what other sixty two year olds
Speaker 1: feel like, but nothing, nothing about me. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying this is this is not a brag, but I
Speaker 1: don't feel on any level sixty two. I don't physiologically
Speaker 1: or emotionally or cognitively. I don't. But nonetheless that's where
Speaker 1: I am. But I think this brings us back to
Speaker 1: that the often discussing about living intentionally, where you know,
Speaker 1: it's a bit of that life iron stuff, because you know,
Speaker 1: do you want balance here? I want balance? Do you
Speaker 1: want to be financially successful?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do. Do you want a spiritual life? I think so? Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you want healthy relationships? Yeah? Do you want to
Speaker 1: be working all the time? No? Do you want to
Speaker 1: be busy all the time? No? And then to go
Speaker 1: all right, well, how do I create that version? Like
Speaker 1: what is that for me? And if I'm going to
Speaker 1: create this version of a life where I've got productive
Speaker 1: time and unproductive time times where you know, I'm redlining
Speaker 1: it and my foot's on the accelerator and I'm just
Speaker 1: going hard, and then times where I'm either literally or
Speaker 1: metaphorically in the hammock, times where I'm crying, times where
Speaker 1: I'm laughing, times where you know it's things are going great,
Speaker 1: and times where things aren't going great, and times where
Speaker 1: I'm all about my brain, and times where I'm all
Speaker 1: about my physical health, and times when I'm all about
Speaker 1: making dough, and then times where I'm all about just
Speaker 1: getting away from it, Like how do I build this
Speaker 1: existence that kind of reflects who and how I want
Speaker 1: to be and rather than just talking about things that
Speaker 1: we never actually do. Like this is my ongoing frustration
Speaker 1: with personal development and self help and behavioral psychology and
Speaker 1: podcasts and books. And it's not like I don't think
Speaker 1: the content the podcast or the book or the workshop
Speaker 1: is the problem, but rather the challenge is to get
Speaker 1: us humans who love listening to personal development while simultaneously
Speaker 1: not operationalizing it. It's like, we love to listen to
Speaker 1: self help, we love to get motivated, we love to
Speaker 1: get inspired, we love to learn new things about the
Speaker 1: human condition. But that's not the same as putting an
Speaker 1: into practice and creating results consistently over time, and then
Speaker 1: one or two or five years down the track. Now
Speaker 1: you've literally reinvented yourself. Now you're physically, mentally, emotionally, practically,
Speaker 1: financially in a vastly improved place. Because you heard something,
Speaker 1: you explored it, you made a decision, you applied to something,
Speaker 1: you adapted and adjusted and improvised and overcame and you
Speaker 1: solved problems. And now here you are. You know, this
Speaker 1: is like because it's ongoing, like we don't get there,
Speaker 1: we don't go and now I'm here. Now I've got
Speaker 1: the job, Now I've got the money, Now I've got
Speaker 1: the person. Because we're just we're always you know. It
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we can't be more or less grateful or
Speaker 1: more or less content, but where you know, this is
Speaker 1: a journey until we're not here anymore.
Speaker 2: Now. I think we learn that stuff when we do
Speaker 2: stop and pause, like we learn what we get the
Speaker 2: perspective of what hasn't shifted inside of us when the
Speaker 2: world has shifted outside of us. You know, And there's
Speaker 2: been many times of sat outside my life and going, oh,
Speaker 2: all this stuff I now have and do was once
Speaker 2: on a fucking board that I thought was outrageous and no,
Speaker 2: look and now look at them in the middle of it,
Speaker 2: and I'm not celebrating any of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that interesting? Isn't it? When interesting when we
Speaker 1: get to the top of the mountain, no matter how
Speaker 1: big or small the mountain is, we don't just stay
Speaker 1: there and go boom, Yeah, I'm here now, like we go, oh,
Speaker 1: wrong mountain, or what about that mountain over there? Or
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'll run up the mountain, not walk
Speaker 1: up the mountain, or maybe I'll build a palace up
Speaker 1: on the mountain.
Speaker 2: I also think it's interesting how the story that we
Speaker 2: tell ourselves about our relationship with what we've heard or
Speaker 2: witnessed as to whether or not we draw inspiration and
Speaker 2: practice like, we will change. I believe that we change
Speaker 2: whether we action things or not. We change when we
Speaker 2: hear stuff because we have a new understanding and we
Speaker 2: have a new perspective on something, So there is some shift.
Speaker 1: But I think what.
Speaker 2: Dictates what we do with that is is a story
Speaker 2: about whether we we judge ourselves about whether or not
Speaker 2: we've taken action, yeah, or whether we are a little
Speaker 2: bit more compassionate and we I don't know, Just let
Speaker 2: let you know, sit with it and think about it
Speaker 2: and observe what we do with things.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because like when you think about like somebody,
Speaker 1: somebody like John our mate, you know, he can't get
Speaker 1: up today and go, you know what, I'm going to
Speaker 1: deal with this pain next Monday. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: he's just got to see. One of the good and
Speaker 1: bad I think of our life is that we don't
Speaker 1: have to change today. We don't have to eat better today.
Speaker 1: We don't need to do the work today. We don't
Speaker 1: need to because life's pretty fucking come. And by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it tomorrow. But think of all
Speaker 1: the people that you and I know. You know Joel
Speaker 1: Sardi who's in a wheelchair, who has a spinal cord injury,
Speaker 1: who's a quadriplegic with some upper body function. Joel can't
Speaker 1: get up today and go deah, fuck quadriplegia. I'm not
Speaker 1: doing that today. I can't be bothered. I've got shit on.
Speaker 1: I'm sad, I'm anxious, I'm depressed. It's inconvenient, it doesn't
Speaker 1: suit me right. But we can do that. Most of
Speaker 1: us can go. I'm not doing whatever it is. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to change my diet today. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to make the decision today. I'm not going to do
Speaker 1: the work today. But for somebody like Joel, it takes
Speaker 1: him three hours every day to get ready just to
Speaker 1: start the day because Joel can't walk into the shower
Speaker 1: and have a shower. Joel can't Joel needs help with everything,
Speaker 1: so does John, you know. So it's like we when
Speaker 1: we're put in a certain situation where we don't have
Speaker 1: a choice, where we just do what's required and we
Speaker 1: just find a way. But when your life is pretty
Speaker 1: you know, like I'll use me as an example, So
Speaker 1: I'm not offending anyone, but I don't need to make
Speaker 1: any massive changes because you know, it doesn't matter, Like
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter today, it probably doesn't matter tomorrow. And
Speaker 1: if I'm I'm happy charming Craig on the podcast, but
Speaker 1: a prick off the podcast, but nobody ever knows, well, fuck,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, do you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Like my point is, we all have this
Speaker 1: potential to change today because if someone has a heart
Speaker 1: attack today and they don't die, they're dealing with the
Speaker 1: heart attack today and they're dealing with the concerts of
Speaker 1: consequences of the heart attack today, They're not dealing with
Speaker 1: it next Thursday, right, and today they have the capacity
Speaker 1: to deal with it, and they just do and they
Speaker 1: make the psychological, emotional, and behavioral and medical adjustments that
Speaker 1: they need to because they can't defer it because it's here.
Speaker 1: But the problem with optional change, right, like losing weight,
Speaker 1: like changing my job, like getting a black belt in karate,
Speaker 1: like whatever it is, like enrolling in a course, like
Speaker 1: is we don't have to do it today, Like there's
Speaker 1: no urgency I can. I can put that shit off
Speaker 1: for as long as I want. And so then we
Speaker 1: do and we're like, yeah, it doesn't it's not convenient.
Speaker 1: I've got this. I've got that. My low backers saw
Speaker 1: the kids are on holidays, my mom's this, my dad
Speaker 1: did that. But bah bah, And now it's twenty twenty
Speaker 1: eight and we're still telling ourselves bullshit stories to rationalize
Speaker 1: not using our potential.
Speaker 2: I had a doctor's appointment today just to get a script,
Speaker 2: and there's this I almost took a photo of it.
Speaker 2: You just but that's why I'm laughing. So I was
Speaker 2: thinking of it. There's this character you are on the
Speaker 2: wall of the surgery where it's got a doctor that
Speaker 2: says the best thing you can do right now is
Speaker 2: stop eating fatty fried foods, stop drinking booze, and start exercising.
Speaker 2: And the patient goes, what's the second best thing? And
Speaker 2: laugh at it every time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, that's so true, isn't it. That's so true?
Speaker 1: You know, every time I see Mom and Dad lately,
Speaker 1: I just, you know, I'm just grateful that they're alive. Like,
Speaker 1: you know, Dad's on the slide. I mean he's not
Speaker 1: moving physically. Well, you know, he's eighty six. He's all
Speaker 1: right though, like he's you know, but yeah, it's like,
Speaker 1: well he's eighty six and he's got an eighty six
Speaker 1: year old brain an eighty six year old body, and
Speaker 1: Mum's eighty six in a month or two. And you're like, well,
Speaker 1: but I can drive up and see them. There's so
Speaker 1: many people that can't drive and see their parents. I'm lucky,
Speaker 1: and I'm sixty two and I've still got both my parents.
Speaker 1: And as people often say to me, you're so blessed,
Speaker 1: you're so lucky. I agree, and I have nothing but gratitude,
Speaker 1: you know, And are they do? I wish they'd were
Speaker 1: they're fucking hearing aids. You know, yes, can Mum turn
Speaker 1: a tiny little grain of sand into Mount Everest? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yes she can? Can she? You know all that? But
Speaker 1: is she gorgeous? And do I love both of them?
Speaker 1: I love both of them. And you know, one day
Speaker 1: I wish that they were here to bother me, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? One day i'ld wish that I
Speaker 1: could put up with Mum, you know, being anxious or
Speaker 1: overthinking the fuck out of something, or Dad looking down
Speaker 1: his nose at me, going, you know, telling me off
Speaker 1: because I need a fucking shave or whatever he you know,
Speaker 1: last week I went up there's not a word of
Speaker 1: a lie, went up for his birthday and it was cold,
Speaker 1: and I walked in the house wearing a beanie. It's
Speaker 1: my birthday. The first thing he says to me, not
Speaker 1: as good A happy birthday? Nothing, He goes, what's that
Speaker 1: stupid hat on your head?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 1: That? Was? They were his opening words. I'm like, crazy, Lord,
Speaker 1: I'm home. Ah, I'm like, you know, Dad, but that's
Speaker 1: you know, but he doesn't, I mean he doesn't. He's
Speaker 1: not even trying to be. It's just him, you know,
Speaker 1: And you go, yeah, that's okay, Yeah, bless his little stocks,
Speaker 1: and one day I'm going to wish he was around
Speaker 1: to tell me about my stupid hat.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm not a hat.
Speaker 1: By the way ronas been. But anyway, I'm gonna eat
Speaker 1: some chicken and maybe some salad. It's been great cook.
Speaker 1: You'd be good.
Speaker 2: I'll talk to you soon, Okay, bye,