1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: It's Monday, January five, twenty twenty six. The world wakes 3 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 1: today to a new Donald Trump shaped global order, with 4 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: the United States appointing itself to govern Venezuela after capturing 5 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: President Nicholas Maduro Moros and his wife. Maduro, whom the 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: United States accuses of financing, profiting from, and facilitating the 7 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: global cocaine trade, was seized in a giant operation involving 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: the US military and Drug Enforcement Agency. An indictment released 9 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: by the Department of Justice accuses Maduro of being a 10 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: narco terrorist who allows drug gangs, including the giants Sinaloa Cartel, 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: to commit murder, human trafficking, and transporting huge quantities of drugs. 12 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: With the protection of diplomatic passports and the collaboration of 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: law enforcement and the Venezuelan military, We're going. 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: To have our very large United States oil companies, the 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 2: biggest anywhere in the. 16 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: World, go and spend billions of dollars fix the badly 17 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: broken infrastructure, the oil infrastructure, and start making money for 18 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: the gunjy. Maduro is now in New York with his 19 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: wife Chilia Flores awaiting trial. The detention of the Maduros 20 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: comes after Trump and Secretary of Warpete Hegseth released a 21 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: new national security strategy in November twenty twenty five, which 22 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: set out Trump's vision for a new world order. The 23 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: strategy endorsed the so called Monroe Doctrine. That's a principle 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: from the eighteen twenties that rejects European colonialism in the 25 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: so called New World and asserts America's right to complete 26 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: independence from European affairs. Trump said he would use the 27 00:01:55,520 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: Monroe Doctrine to quote restore America's supremacy in the Western hemisphere, 28 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: and he added something he calls the Trump Corollary. That 29 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: is a new principle called Enlist and expand. It means 30 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: enlisting established friends in the West to control migration, stop 31 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: drug flows, and strengthen stability and security, while cultivating and 32 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: strengthening new partners in economic and security cooperation. The Venezuela mission, 33 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 1: where America is removing what it calls a corrupt and 34 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: broken government, is the first enactment of the Trump Corollary. 35 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: This story is moving fast and you can follow it 36 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: live at the Australian dot Com. Today on the Front, 37 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: we're stepping back into a moment that captivated Australians in 38 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. The unrivaled superstar of art right now 39 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: is a Japanese nonagenarian named Yayoi Kosama. She lives a 40 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: reclusive life in a psychiatric facility in Japan, but thanks 41 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: to Instagram, she's never more popular. Today. Chief Culture Correspondent 42 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: Tim Douglas joins The Front's Kristin Amiot to explore why 43 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: Kasama is such a big deal and how her work 44 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: created the biggest moment in the Australian art scene over 45 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: the past year. The magical works of a ninety five 46 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: year old Japanese artist are bound for Melbourne. 47 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: Vibrant color reflections, pumpkins and polka dots are set to 48 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: swamp the entire ground floor of the National Gallery this summer. 49 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 3: I think the mirror rooms are going to blow people away. 50 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: I mean, if you saw it. 51 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: The Tate had two mirror rooms for about a year 52 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: and there were cues of people coming in every day. 53 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: We're talking far. 54 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 3: More than that. Yea, Yoi Kasama won't see it in person, 55 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 3: as she doesn't leave Japan, but gallery staff say her 56 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 3: blessing has made it possible. Tim Douglas is the Australian's 57 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: chief culture correspondent, What did you think of it? 58 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: It was kind of seismic actually for the art industry 59 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: in Australia. And it wasn't just the big instagrammable works 60 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 2: that we know. The beauty of that show was that 61 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: a really charted Kassama's career from very humble beginnings and 62 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 2: some of those infinity paintings she did those really subtle, 63 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: almost mindful works into these kind of gargantua and inflatable, 64 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 2: almost garish works that we know her for. In the 65 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: twenty first. 66 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: Century, Australians in particular seem to love Jayokasama's art. I 67 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: spent a long time in the gift shop at the MGV, 68 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 3: wandering around looking for something to take home that I 69 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 3: could fit in my bag on the plane. There were 70 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 3: so many beautiful trinkets and books, and I actually settled 71 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 3: on a children's book with little punction shaped children's book 72 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: that was all about different types of spots. They were 73 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 3: all different colors and textures and that sort of thing, 74 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: and I thought that just represented not only the exhibition 75 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 3: but her really well, what do you think think it 76 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: is that makes Australians in particular gravitate to Yao Kassama's work. 77 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 2: It's interesting, I mean, obviously geographically we're not so far away. 78 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: Australia has a complicated and very interesting relationship with Japan 79 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 2: from World War Two onwards. Of course, Kasama's involvement in 80 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: that particular conflict was visceral in itself. I mean, she 81 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 2: was a child working in a munition's factory making parachutes 82 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 2: for the war effort. And I think it's interesting that 83 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 2: you chose a children's book because much of Kassama's comes 84 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 2: from her childhood, which wasn't in the story. She tells 85 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 2: about it a particularly pleasant experience. She grew up in 86 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: a nursery, very strict parents. Her mother tore up any 87 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: artwork she might have made. She has spoken in the 88 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: past very honestly about the hallucinations she experienced as a child, 89 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: seeing these polka dots in front of her eyes, which 90 00:05:52,520 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 2: is representation of her mental state. The pumpkins that she 91 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 2: drawls and perhaps were a big part of that book 92 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: you bought. It's a direct line to her childhood and 93 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 2: the pumpkins that were grown at this seedling plant, this 94 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 2: nursery where she grew up. Why do Australians love Kassama 95 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: so much? It's a great question. I mean, were you 96 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: to ask our art critic Christah Allen, he doesn't particularly 97 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: like her work, he doesn't particularly value it, and there 98 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: are a lot of very serious critics around the world 99 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 2: who don't rate Kasama's work. However, as evidenced by you know, 100 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: almost six hundred thousand streaming through the doors of the 101 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: MGV over the course of four months, Australians clearly do 102 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: love Kasama's work. She's shown here in the past in 103 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 2: very popular shows and I think there is something to 104 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,280 Speaker 2: be said for the Instagram factor about her work, and 105 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: so people want to share that and I think, yeah, 106 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: there's a certain amount of street cred that comes with 107 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 2: these days, with sharing that sort of moment. So it's 108 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 2: a great question whether Australians really do love that art 109 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 2: or they just wanted to be part of something special. 110 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: And I think it was a momentous occasion for the 111 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 2: art world. Irrespective of value critically of her. 112 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: Artwork, Jaokasama was already well known in the art world 113 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: prior to the advent of social media. Do you think 114 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 3: that she would have had the mass appeal that she 115 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 3: has in Australia and around the world if not for 116 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 3: the Instagram factor, Or do you think that has just 117 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: supercharged what was an already successful career in art. 118 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,120 Speaker 2: Her career is really interesting because, as I said, a 119 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: very kind of complicated childhood and a complicated mental state 120 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: meant that she had trouble making her name. In Japan, 121 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: she studied Nihonga painting and then had this great affinity 122 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: with the natural world and contacted great American painter and 123 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: pioneering female artists in the States. Georgia O'Keeffe sent her 124 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: a letter and this letter is was in the show, 125 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: which is amazing. Georgia O'Keeffe wrote a letter back saying, 126 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: come to America and you can do great things. And 127 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: she did go to America and then began making work 128 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 2: with Donald jard around the time of Andy Warhol, et 129 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: cetera in that time, but didn't get to where she 130 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: wanted to go. But she had a very serious mental breakdown, 131 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 2: culminating in a suicide attempt, which meant she went home. 132 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy three, she checked herself into a mental 133 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: facility in Tokyo and she's lived there ever since. It 134 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: was mister Tatihata, who was the boss of the National 135 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: Museum in Osaka at the time, who in the eighties 136 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 2: reconnected with Kassama and resurrected her career with a retrospective 137 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: that coincided with a shift I suppose in society. It 138 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 2: was before the advent, of course, of the digital revolution, 139 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: but it wasn't far away, and I think Kasama's really 140 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: ridden that wave. Certainly, she's in the sweet spot right 141 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 2: now in terms of social media, but yeah, I mean, 142 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: her popularity really kind of soared before social media, so 143 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: there is something about her work connects with people in 144 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: a very real and visceral way. 145 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: Do you think that the average punter who goes along 146 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,479 Speaker 3: to see an exhibition like this, or sees Yo Cassama's 147 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: work in a book or wherever, actually registers those themes 148 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: or are they just taking it at face value? 149 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I think there's a certain section of people 150 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,960 Speaker 2: who just want to be there for the occasion, who 151 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 2: want to be part of the cool show that's happening 152 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 2: in town. But I think the beauty of that show 153 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: that we are speaking about in Melbourne was that it 154 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: was done in the chronological way, and it really kind 155 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: of showed that evolution of not just the artist, but 156 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: the woman, because the woman she is now. And I 157 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: know this from having spoken to mister Tatiato, who's one 158 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: of her closest friends. You know, she's apparently a very 159 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: funny person. She calls him at two in the morning 160 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: and says, you need to come over here because I'm 161 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: going to hurt myself unless you do. So he gets 162 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: in a cab and this man's eighty years old himself. 163 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: He gets in a cab and races over and she 164 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 2: starts laughing and saying, why are you here? What are 165 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,959 Speaker 2: you doing? You know, And so she kind of I 166 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: was speaking to her galerist as well, who said, at 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: the time he sold one of her pumpkins for some 168 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 2: phenomenal amount of money, let's say ten million dollars, and 169 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: he showed her the check and said, you're happy with this? 170 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 2: And she put another zero at the end and said, 171 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: now I'm happy with. 172 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: It, you know. And so I respect that. 173 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: I respect that. And so she's by all accounts a 174 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: very kind of singular human. She's now in her late 175 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 2: nineties and she lives still in this institution with twenty 176 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: four hour care and a very close group of trusted 177 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 2: confidants who support her. She has no family left, and 178 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: she had a very complicated relationship with that family. But 179 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: I think the bauity of that show was that it 180 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 2: was so well done that anyone with an interest in 181 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 2: the woman herself and her art and you know, saw 182 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 2: that couch of Fallis's and wondered, why is it a 183 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: couch of Fallises? And then you realize that she witnessed 184 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 2: her father having an affair as a child and engendered 185 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 2: in her an immediate fear of sex that she carried 186 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: with her through her life, into her personal relationships and beyond. 187 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: Coming up more of Kristen Amiot's chat with Chief Culture 188 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: correspondent Tim Douglas. 189 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: She is, as you said, living in a facility that 190 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 3: she's been in for decades. She is, for all intents 191 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 3: and purposes, a recluse. But then she's on billboards in 192 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 3: Times Square, she's doing a collaboration with Louis Verton, she's 193 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: got the biggest ever exhibition at the MGV. Is she 194 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 3: kind of a contradiction in that way, and that she 195 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 3: seems to want to keep to herself. But yet she 196 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 3: has such broad appeal and seems quite willing to engage 197 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 3: with the commercial side of art and that sort of thing. 198 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 3: Is that what makes her so unique? 199 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does feel that way. I mean, if you 200 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 2: knew nothing of her mental state or where she lived, 201 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 2: you'd think she was a hustler. I mean, you think 202 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 2: she was a mover and shaker in that world, someone 203 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: with great commercial mouse and interest in the fashion world 204 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: and the world of finance. Look, whether that's true or not, 205 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 2: I'm not sure, and I imagine very few people are 206 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: because she doesn't give interviews and she really leaves her 207 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 2: place of residence. But when I spoke to mister Taddy 208 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: Harder about her, he said she produces work every day. 209 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 2: And now she produces work because, in his words and 210 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: in her words of her mental state, she needs to 211 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: paint these things, these things that present themselves before her eyes. 212 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 2: She needs to get that out of a system and 213 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 2: to work every day. And so while she's not making 214 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 2: large scale of pumpkins from hand, she's still drawing each day. 215 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 2: And last year she embarked on a new sort of 216 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 2: creative avenue where she began doing portraits of young Japanese people, 217 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: and mister Tatty Harder at that point said it was 218 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: a new sort of artistic avenue for her. We haven't 219 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: seen any of those things in public at this point, 220 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 2: but it seems very much to be some sort of 221 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: response to her childhood, and so I think it's really interesting. 222 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: The oldest she gets, the more perhaps introspective, she seems 223 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: to be getting. But again it is a contradiction in 224 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 2: a way, and she's so sought after. Of course, she 225 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 2: was the highest selling artist in the world last year, 226 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 2: a phenomenal amount of money still exchanging hands at the 227 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 2: altar of her work, and so it's I think she's 228 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 2: still the most interesting person in the art world, living 229 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: or dead. I think at this point. 230 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 3: They say that imitation is the greatest form of flattery, 231 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: and I'm sure that there are already people out there 232 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 3: trying to emulate what has made Yao Kasama so special 233 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: for so long. Do you think there'll ever be another 234 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 3: artist like her? 235 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, this is a person 236 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: who grew up in very conservative Japan and began experiencing 237 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 2: serious mental deterioration as the onset of global war came. 238 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: For a relatively small country, moved to New York at 239 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: a seismic time for art and culture and society was 240 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 2: chewed up and spat out. It's lived in a mental 241 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: institution and somehow created a niche for herself as the 242 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 2: world's highest and most saleable artist. I unless there's some 243 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 2: who knows what's ahead on the horizon, But I mean, 244 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: I think in terms of lived experience, few have seen 245 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 2: what she's seen quite literally, and you know, I think she's, 246 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: as I said earlier, it's kind of singular cultural icon 247 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: of our time. 248 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: Tim Douglas is The Australian's chief culture correspondent. You can 249 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: read all the latest in culture right now, plus all 250 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: the best world and local news, at the Australian dot 251 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: com dot a u