WEBVTT - Paul Murray Live | 8 July 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:05.240 From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live. 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:10.040 Hey here we are folks, big Monday night, after the 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:13.120 first day of the week. That wasn't so bad, now 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.400 was it? James Morrow here sitting in tonight and for 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.079 the next two weeks for the great man himself on 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.040 Paul Murray Live. Thanks for being here. And you know what, 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.560 here's a bit of good news for you. Chalk one 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:31.200 up for the good guys. This sort of our friends 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.600 at Wooli's, you know, the guys who have our best 0:00:33.640 --> 0:00:37.400 interests at heart, have been overtaken by a new flush 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:41.239 of patriotism, it seems, and just in time for the 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.239 Paris Olympics, where I'm hoping it's not too late to 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:49.680 get molotov cocktail making and tear gas dodging in as 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.479 a few late entry sports. Now, my colleague at the 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.560 Daily Telegraph and Ghira Brajewadg reports that Woolies will again 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:03.000 start selling the Australian flo I know too. I suppose 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.160 let us deck out our lounge rooms for all those 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:10.720 Olympics viewing parties in a few weeks time now. With 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:14.240 the twenty twenty four olymp Paraslympics beginning later this month, 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.600 and as a proud Australian retailer, we are pleased once again, 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.440 they said to be the official fresh food partner of 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.280 the Australian Olympic and Paralympic teams. Will were said in 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.680 a statement to staff. Now given the Australian flag is 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.480 the official flag of the Australian Olympic Committee and of 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.560 course our team competing in Paris, a locally made handheld 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:43.080 Australian flag made from long lasting materials such as timber 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:48.520 and polyester, will also be available to customers Lucky Us 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:55.320 to purchase across our supermarkets and selected Metro stores. Well, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:59.080 I have to ask myself, will Woollies also go back 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:03.840 to celebrating Australia Day. I think we'll have to wait 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.600 five or six months to answer that question. But I 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.000 tell you what, I think I already know the answer already. 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.760 And also color me cynical here, but I wonder does 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.400 this snap decision announced in an all staff announcement that 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.400 was sure to be handed to the press. Well again, 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.560 I might just be a little too jaded, but this 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.320 feels like something that they came up with in the 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.600 Woolies c suite to head off Peter Dutton's attacks on 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:37.280 the supermarket giants, attacks like this one, which he made 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.920 just on the weekend at the Liberal National Party convention 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:41.760 in Brisbane. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.200 For too long, there's been a lack of competitive pressure 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:48.880 on the big supermarkets. I have many decades the big 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.480 chins have exploited their growing market power. They forced many 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:55.440 of the independent and smaller supermarkets out of the market 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.200 or bought them up. Today were Worth, Cole's and Eldie 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:03.160 control seventy four percent of the market. In contrast, the 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.280 three big supermarket chains in the US and the UK 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.400 control about thirty to forty percent of the market in 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:13.200 those countries. With market dominance to Australia's big supermarkets of 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:18.320 mistreated farmers and supplieres. Within sufficient competition, there's been little 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:22.480 incentive for Australi's big supermarkets to lower prices for consumers, 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:25.519 even during Labour's cost of living crisis, which has seen 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:28.120 food prices go up by over eleven percent. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.360 And you know what he's right. Today in the Australian 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.040 Robert guard Lives and talked about what he expects from 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.400 the review into supermarket pricing. He says that he believes 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.640 the review will find, among other things that the gross 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.880 supermarket margins, calls Wilworth and others parade to the politicians 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.360 are not worth a bag of beans. He also said 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.160 that insufficient investment has been made in the supply chain, 0:03:55.520 --> 0:04:00.280 including temperature controls, leading to incredible waste which need to 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.560 be fixed, and the rewards of this investment need to 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:09.960 be shared with suppliers, particularly smaller suppliers and customers. In 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:14.760 other words, he said, there's growing people customers, you and me, 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.039 suppliers often farmers and primary producers, and of course making 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.719 it impossible for competitors to get into the market, shoring 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.840 up their position. Now this is fascinating to me because 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:32.040 Dottin is putting the Liberals once the big end of 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:35.560 town party, on the side of the little guy, as 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:40.719 Benzi's once put it the forgotten Australians. So what's Labour's 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:44.039 answer to this? Are they going along with it? Ah 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:45.680 glib sound bites. 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.560 It looks like we're now going to have an intervention 0:04:49.760 --> 0:04:54.160 where one would assume in the town here, if Woolley's 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.880 will be forced to sell guests's gonna buy Colls or 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.720 will we have a nationalized supermarket chain. This isn't a 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.960 supermarket policy. It's a super Marxist policy. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.920 Super Marxist. Yes, we see we did their Prime Minister, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:17.960 what a zinger. But will that bring prices down? I 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.279 don't think so. Look, I'm all for free markets, but 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.599 a duopoly that lobbies hard to maintain its market share 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:29.040 using government protection and regulation while screwing people down the 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:33.039 line is hardly real red and tooth and claw capitalism. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.640 It's big corporatism, the sort of thing that in the 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.039 banking sector of previous labor Prime Minister Paul Keating sought 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:46.279 to bust up Food for Thought Albo. Now, before I 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.720 bring in our first guest tonight, can I bring you 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:53.400 the latest from the Joe Biden chronicles. Look, we all 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.520 know about the Horror Show debate, and however, since that 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.600 went down, the man has been trying to convince us. Hey, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.599 I'm okay, folks. Well, let's check in on how that 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.640 effort's going, shall we. On Sunday, Joe Biden decided to 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:12.640 go to church, and not just any church, a historically 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.560 black church in Philadelphia. Joe Biden has of course told 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.279 us many many times over a year over the years 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.120 that he grew up in the black church. So let's see, 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:45.960 he must be pretty comfortable in that sort of environment. Yes, 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:49.360 let that spirit move you, mister president. And then there 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:53.440 was this bizarre moment. Just watch it on your screen. Here. 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.479 What you see right now is the pastor of the 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:01.760 church giving the president money that he can then go 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.080 and take down to the collection plate as if he 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.719 was a child. I mean, seriously, watch him. Is he 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.000 okay there? Well, I think we know the answer to that. 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.920 I mean, Joe Biden has claimed that he is a 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:17.720 regular Mass goer, that he used to go to black 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.080 churches after going to Mass, and hell, I bet you 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.480 could find instances if he had dug into the records 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:25.960 far enough where he claimed that he grew up going 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.320 to Hindu temples and Shinto shrines if you went back 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:33.000 into the records. But you'd think there'd be some basic 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:38.640 familiarity then with facilities such as the collection plate. But 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.280 this is not all. It also turns out that for 0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.320 some time, Joe Biden's events staff have been forced to 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.720 use some pretty detailed instructions to get him through events. 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.680 Check this out. According to Newside Axios, which once upon 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.560 a time was one of Biden's biggest defenders, the president's 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:05.200 staff prepare a short document with large print and photos 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.640 that include his precise path to a podium, according to 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:14.200 an event template the White House sends to staffers. According 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.880 to Axios, one staffer reported, quote, I staffed a simple 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.840 fundraiser at a private residence, but they treated it like 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.440 it was a NATO summit with his movements. The staffer 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.840 went on to say, quote, it surprised me that a 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:34.480 seasoned political pro like the President would need detailed verbal 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:40.560 and visual instructions on how to enter and exit a room. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.040 Of course, this is Joe Biden we're talking about, and 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:45.760 I know the consensus is that Joe Biden is out 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:47.640 of the race and it's just a matter of time, 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.920 and that because it's the legally and politically easiest thing 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.560 to do, Kamala Harris will take over and lead the 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:59.160 Democrats to an ignominious defeat anyway, even if the party is, 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:03.839 as she says, unburdened by what has been. But let's 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.120 just have a little note of caution here. Elections that 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.240 looked like the rights to win have a habit of 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:12.720 going the other way at the last minute these days. 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.800 Just look at France, where a voting system that was 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.559 installed by Charles de Gaull after World War II to 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.080 keep the Communists out of power, has now brought them 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.599 closer to power. The left is very adept gaming systems, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.280 and when they want to win, they pull out all 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.800 the stops, not just in France but around the world. Meanwhile, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:38.200 again over to Axios, it seems that Congressional Democrats are 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:43.120 doing their damnedest to prevent a Republican bill demanding that 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.679 voters provide proof of citizenship to register to vote in 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:52.200 federal elections from becoming law. Now to me, this seems 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.200 like a pretty sensible proposal. I can't think of any 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.360 reasons why someone would be against it. Well, there's maybe 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.200 one reason. Anyway, It's not what a lot of people 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:08.040 want to hear, but that Trump victory is going to 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.760 be a lot harder fought than I think a lot 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:16.560 of folk on the right realize. Don't get cocky. Now, 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.280 let's get into all this in the day's News with 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.440 Sky News contributor Sam Crosby, Great to have you here 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.560 at the desk and National Senator Matt Canavan. Welcome to 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.760 you both. Something for both parties in the latest news poll, 0:10:31.200 --> 0:10:34.880 Labor have all the have the important two party preferred 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.440 lead fifty one forty nine. But coalition, the Coalition has 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.679 taken the lead in New South Wales which is important 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.640 for their re election efforts. Matt, Matt Canavan, tell me 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.520 who is the happier party right now looking at these 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.400 poll results. 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.920 Well, look, I mean I think the Labor Party, the 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:58.079 first term lib of government, has to be nervous. As 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:01.280 you say, the Coalition's not in the lead in the polls, 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.040 but it's very very close and for any first term 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.480 opposition that gives you a bit of hunger. There's a 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.679 lot of unity on our side of politics. We've got 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.800 to I think a leader that's taken an ambitious agenda 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.040 on nuclear energy in particular, so there's something to drive 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.719 for and pursue here. And certainly this next election is 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.520 very close, so it could be anyone's for the taking. 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.360 So I think that gives the opposition some hope here. 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:28.720 And it is a bit unusual, just two years in 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.679 a government for it to be so so close at 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.040 this stage. It's close than it was in Rudd's first 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.160 term at this stage. It got closer much closer into 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:38.920 the election. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.280 Then, and so you know, you've got to look at 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:42.040 why that's the case. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.600 And I went back and read Anthony Alberanneze's victory speech 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.560 in preparation for this evening, and you know, he made 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.320 a few promises there, none of which basically have come true. 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.160 He ended, if he promised to end the climate wars, 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.120 we're still larking about energy because he hasn't delivered his 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.200 twildred and seventy five dollars cut to power prices. 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.959 He promised a voice, obviously late and object valure. 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:03.600 We promised even to strengthen man care about building rights 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.440 for a record lows. He did talk a lot about 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.640 the fact he came from public housing, but you know, 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:10.680 I don't think many people thought that the promise was 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.400 that people would be forced into public housing or no 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.520 housing thanks to his government. 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:17.679 I don't think they count that one as a promise. Cam. 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:19.680 Yeah, no, fair enough to Sam. One of the things 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.520 that strikes me about these poll results is that they 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.480 come on the back of weeks when labor has been 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:29.600 forced to talk about themselves and they have all of 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.040 these things out there. You know that they're trying to 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.040 sell to people, but it seems like no one seems 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.200 to care about the much type Stage three tax cuts. 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.960 You know, can we get our money back please? On 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.880 all those ads they sold us, Hey you're getting the 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:46.240 tax becaut Thank you Labor for all of that. But 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:48.800 you know, it seems like they're talking too much about 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.360 themselves and not about enough about what people are going through. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.520 Look quite probably, quite possibly, I think that's one of 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.760 the reasons that the Prime Minister was so annoyed at 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.719 the senator payments distraction in the news fight at the 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.720 point that we were talking about the Stage three tax cuts. 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.240 You know, we ended up having to talk for days 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.880 and weeks now about you know, the potential new party 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:10.480 and an independent Senate and all the rest of it. 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.360 I think, you know, to be fair, I think MAT's right. 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.960 I think this is a poll that will make a 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.520 number of people in the government nervous. There is some 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.600 good news in there for Labor. Albow is still a 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.560 preferred prime minister everywhere but Queensland. Now that's a problem 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:29.400 because there is a couple of seats that we need 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.280 to hold on to in Queensland that are under a threat. 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:35.600 But I think they will take some comfort in being 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:39.360 ahead in all those other states and quite companably. But 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.440 look to Matt's point about first term governments. You go 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.160 back to Bob Hawk eighty four, John Howard in ninety six, 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:50.720 Kevin Rudd slash Julie Gillard twenty eleven, and then Malcolm 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.920 Tenble twenty sixteen. First term governments are normally pretty bad 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.320 at getting re elected that first time. It's normally a 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:01.400 lot closer when the reality seeing home to people that 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.199 they tossed the old government out, the new government comes 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:08.880 in and you know, the sun comes up and it's 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.400 the same old country and things are hard to change. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:15.840 So traditionally first term governments don't go that well. 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.800 Yeah, look that's fair said. But I think, Matah, what's that, Matt. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.720 Well, I was just going to say that. I think 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.720 the difference here is one. This has been close now 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.600 for a while. It often gets closer close to the election, 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.600 which I mentioned Kevin Rudd's situation had and Bob Hawk 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.040 wasn't close until he called the election. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.880 He called it a bit early and people seem to 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:35.600 take a front at that. 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.840 But the other issue here is that the Anthony Alberanezi governor, 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.680 and he has a couple of seat majority, only came. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.000 To government with the one seat majority. Have won to 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:44.840 buy elections since. 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.280 But now those other governments, the first terme governments have 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:48.680 tended to have a bit more of a buffer. So 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.480 I think that's why the government be quite nervous here. 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.320 They kind of need to win seats somewhere to stay 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:54.320 in the majority, because. 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.960 I mean, that's important to say. One of the things 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.040 that I'm curious about too is the drift that we 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.080 see now to the LEF with the Greeds. You've got 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:04.160 to eighteen to thirty four. Is eighteen thirty five's shifting 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.480 massively now to the Greeds. That's got to be a 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.760 big concern because you're going to start to pull the 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.600 party a part at both ends here if you're not careful. 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:14.880 Yeah. 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.000 Look, this is something that the Labor Party's been struggling 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.120 with for twenty something years now. We don't have a 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.560 good answer for it yet, you know, we play whack 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.680 a mole. The problem is that when the Green's win 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:27.800 lower House seats, they tend to be pretty hard to 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.720 extract from them, and we you know, I think the 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.120 truth is we haven't got a great answer for how 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.840 we deal with them. I think facing up to the 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:41.800 core issues that attract Green's voters like climate change, like housing. 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:44.160 More and more, I think it's moved away from refugee 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.240 and climate change now I think it's gone to housing. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.080 I think that's got to be the answer, actually dealing 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:54.280 with not the political policies and the bubble or the 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.480 noise and the politics, but actually figuring out how do 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.160 we get that generation of Australians into their own home. 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:04.160 If not, I think, I think Sam, you have hit 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.520 on something there, you said just a moment ago. The 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.120 shift has been from climate and all that, which are 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.760 fairly conceptual issues, to housing, which is the real thing. 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.400 I think the first side of the politics that solves 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:18.280 this housing issue gives young people a chance onto the 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.440 house of the ladder. They will lock in a generation. 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.000 That's just my thought. But you know who listens to me. 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:23.440 You do. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.080 We're here on Palmery Live. Anyway. Let's move on to 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.960 another issue, and it's an issue that just won't go 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:33.160 away for labor, immigration detention. Now, there's a new report 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.320 today from The Australian that the Federal Court has quote 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:41.080 convened a special panel of judges to tackle a new 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.600 wave of constitutional challenges engulfing the legal system in the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.480 wake of the NZYQ decision unquote. This means that next month, 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.040 guess who is going to be the main character of 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:59.440 the government's dramas again our old friend Andrew Giles. Sam. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.280 But he had a chance when this issue went to 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.239 the back burner to relatively quietly shelve him, get him 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:09.520 out of the way, at least take a scalp show 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.560 is doing something, and he didn't, and it might hurt 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.840 him again that he's still got Giles there. What do 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.720 you think should you have let Giles go? No? 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:20.600 I think I think the opportunity here is for Peter Dutton, 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.879 I really do. I think if he can come to 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:26.000 the table and show that he's not doctor No. You know, 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.639 he is a constructive, engaging opposition leader and he can 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.680 come and put forward a plan to solve this problem. 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.959 You know, at the end of the day, I imagine 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:36.439 all the parties, possibly with the exception of the Greens, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.320 want these dangerous criminals to stay where they are, to 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.120 stay in jail. So how do we ensure that they 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:44.639 stay in jail? What's the answer? You know, I think 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.399 there's an opportunity for Peter Dutton to come to the 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:47.920 table and say here's my plan. 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.560 Yeah, but how anything to do that when you know 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:51.760 when they had the new legislation and they dropped it 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.520 on him at nine o'clock in the morning or seven 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.200 o'clock in the morning the day they were going to 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.040 introduce it to Parliament. 0:17:56.880 --> 0:18:00.760 Under the plan I'm not you know reproscut Yeah, that happened, 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.480 yees ago. That's done and dusted. But the chance is 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:08.160 now here before all of these cases hit the courts, 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.520 the chances now here for Peter dunt't to come forward 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.199 and say, here's my plan for how you should solve it. 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.760 Yeah. Well, then that brings up Matt Canavan. Then you 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:19.359 know the question of on the one hand, hitting Andrew 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.120 Giles over and over again on this is politically very 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.640 profitable in the short term, but in the long run 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.240 there is that issue of what do you do to say, well, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.240 here's how we constructively solve it. What is the coalition 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:33.280 going to bring forward on this as this develops? 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:38.119 Well, well, James, I'm not quite sure why the government 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:42.000 hasn't used the powers that were given to it before Christmas. 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.600 I mean, so we're talking now more than seven years, 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:48.280 seven months ago, and the Coalition was very cooperative that 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:53.080 week it was all done quite quite quickly in light 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.639 of that d Zyq decision that the government the day 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:56.639 wasn't prepared for it. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.200 I remember one of the minister saying, well, look, we. 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:00.600 Were told we were going to win, so that's why 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:03.640 we hadn't prepared any legislation in the event we lose. Well, 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.480 it's no way to govern a country to just do 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.240 so by hoping for the best. You've got to prepare 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:10.520 for the worst. And the government was called flat footed there. 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.840 But as it may, the Coalition did help get that 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.320 legislation through, just to rush it through just before Christmas. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:19.600 But to my knowledge, at least when I last checked 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:21.679 a few weeks ago, and I haven't seen reports otherwise, 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.520 the government has not used those increased powers or increased 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:28.119 impro protection orders they could do to keep people in jail. 0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:30.800 As Sam said, So look, I'm sure the Coalation would 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:31.680 look at other proposals. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:32.760 That legislation you. 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.080 Mentioned didn't deal directly with that issue. It was a 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.040 bit blunt and that's why we weren't so keen on it. 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.439 But I'm sure we'd look at other proposals. I mean 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.520 it's a bit hard to do so from opposition, I 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:44.800 mean it's really got to come from governments and coverment departments. 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.240 These are very technical areas and oppositions just don't have 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.000 the staff and legal drafting. 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.840 Expertise to do this. But yeah, that's why they're in government. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.800 I mean, but we're happy to help, especially given that 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.879 this government has presided over the greatest release of foreign 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.320 convicts onto our shore since the days of Arthur Philip. 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:03.200 Well, that is a sort of a fair point though, so, 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.520 I mean, you know, they did try to come to 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.920 the party on that legislation. But the ultimate thing here 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:12.080 is that Giles was caught flat footed. They thought that 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.040 that High Court case, the Ends in YQ case, was 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.280 going to come down in their favor. And yet if 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:20.639 you go back and you read the final judgment, it 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:23.440 was clear that you know, back in March last year, 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.120 the Court was already singling, this isn't going your way. 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.040 You gotta have something on deck to deal with this. 0:20:30.080 --> 0:20:32.040 Look, you might be you might well be right, and 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.360 I dare say history has shown that you are right. 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:37.320 That said, it is an extravinly right. 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:40.719 But it's an extraordinary decision that the High Court brought us. 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:43.639 You know, I don't think any government of any political 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:46.080 flavor would have looked at this and said, oh no, 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.640 that's okay to release these people with these criminal histories, 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.520 just let them loose. I don't think anyone thought that 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.360 was in any way likely. I don't think the opposition 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:56.159 was saying, no, this is coming down, what are you 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:56.719 doing about it? 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.320 And nor should they? Yeah, you know, I just think 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:00.400 we have to say that. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:06.159 Was well the Department was the Department had been warning 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:07.800 the government of this potential. 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:11.000 We know that mentioned how the hearings were going. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.439 Yeah, we do know that, Matt, and we also know 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:17.679 that Albanese was very cagey about, you know, saying who 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:19.199 these people were and said, oh no, no, that's a 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:21.119 state matter. We're not going to get involved in that. 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:23.040 But let's go on because there's so much else to 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.360 cover here. I want to talk about the French elections 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.840 and the fallout of this is absolutely fascinating and I'm 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:31.760 sure everyone at home you're across the story. Marie Le 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:35.720 Penn's National Rally party looked set for a big win, 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.960 but then the runoff results overnight show the country's actually 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.600 going to the left, with the Macron Technocrats and a 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:47.000 much further left party getting together doing deals to make 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:49.479 sure they boxed the La penn party. And now there 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:53.560 were some pretty wild scenes on the streets of France afterwards, 0:21:53.600 --> 0:22:08.120 and said, look, you gotta love the French left. They 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.240 riot when they win, they riot when they lose, They 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.520 riot on a day ending in why Matt Matt Canavan. 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.160 First of all, give me your take on this. It's 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.400 basically only in the urban cores that the left did well, 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.840 but everybody else in France seems to be sick of 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:31.800 Macran's managerialism and seemingly unlimited, uncontrolled immigration. Did the left 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:36.200 unfairly gain the system here? Well? 0:22:36.359 --> 0:22:38.840 I like your opening there that saying to me that 0:22:38.880 --> 0:22:42.720 those protesters were protesting and being angry because they didn't 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.480 have the reason to protest, but they thought that by winning, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.359 so very upset and decided to protest about it. But 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:53.520 hopefully not too much damage is done in Paris, especially 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:55.720 ahead of the Olympics. Well, look, I think French decide 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:57.680 if you look at these election results, look looks as 0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:02.000 polarized as almost anywhere else. And we're world I mean, 0:23:02.119 --> 0:23:05.000 if you classify Macron's party has left and there's a 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.720 question about whether he is his voters or at least 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:09.920 a left. He tries to present himself as a centrist party. 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:11.960 But if you put them on the left, you add 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:13.639 up the parties of the right, you get about fifty 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:17.160 to fifty between in the French population, and that's pretty 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.160 much where he is around the world. As you say 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:22.880 or suggested there, it's just the left seemed better organized 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:24.960 and were able to coordinate who was going to run 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.800 in which department I think they call them in France, 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.040 and that meant to through a first part yeah through Okay, 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:39.399 thank you James for helping me out there, but they 0:23:39.800 --> 0:23:42.440 were the first part of the post system. With the 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.280 Republicans still running against the right wing party, still running 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:46.359 against the National Front. 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:47.800 That destroyed their opportunity. 0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:50.080 You've seen that in different election results as well. You 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.040 see it with the electoral College in the US, so 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:55.879 it's not uncommon. Organization is very important. Logistics is important 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:57.840 in politics just as much as getting the number of 0:23:57.920 --> 0:23:58.280 votes is. 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.320 That's right, is absolutely critical. I actually think the left 0:24:02.480 --> 0:24:05.040 was aided by the media speculation that this was going 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.359 to be a Mary Lupin victory. Yes, that forced them 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.320 to get their act together in a way that I 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:12.840 don't think they were necessarily capable of beforehand. 0:24:12.920 --> 0:24:14.280 Well, and I mean, it's going to be really interesting 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.240 to watch these two very different when it comes down 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.960 to the fundamentals. Parties try and work together in some 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:24.280 sort of government. But look look at the left wing coalition. 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:25.879 You know, it's the People's Front of Judea and the 0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:28.040 Judea's People's Front. You know, they all hate each other. 0:24:28.080 --> 0:24:31.080 You've got the Communists, the Greens, the Socialists on Marsh, 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.440 you know, and then they will hate each other like viciously. God, 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:36.240 it feels like they are strained parliament. But you know 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:38.080 there's another issue too here say, which you want to 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:40.479 dive into, which is you know, if you look at 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.200 the Marine la penn program, in many ways they say, 0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:45.680 oh it's far right, oh it's fascist, But in many 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.399 ways the economics are very left wing. It's big government spending, 0:24:48.480 --> 0:24:51.240 it's big pensions, which of course we know are the 0:24:51.280 --> 0:24:53.920 big things the French people really care about is you know, 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:56.760 that big pension. But the thing that the only thing 0:24:56.840 --> 0:25:01.000 that really distinguishes them most of all is their stamps migration. 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.280 And the big question I have is why is it 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:09.480 that despite open borders being wildly unpopular with most normal people. 0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:13.280 In most countries, immigration people always say tap the brakes, right, 0:25:13.359 --> 0:25:16.200 anty immigrant, but we do not like this uncontrolled flood. 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:20.360 The elite and the centrists seem to have this as 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:24.440 an article of faith that if some immigration is good, 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:29.280 more is better, and anybody who thinks otherwise is you know, 0:25:29.480 --> 0:25:31.600 to be frank. You know, they call them far right, 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:33.480 they call them all right, they call them a Nazi. 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:37.120 How come Look, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Marie 0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:40.080 le Penn, over a very long political career twenty years 0:25:40.160 --> 0:25:43.960 or thirty years or something, has said some genuinely disturbing 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:50.320 comments and has some genuinely disturbing views. And also, you know, 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:54.080 we talk about fascists and communists in the Australian landscape 0:25:54.400 --> 0:25:57.400 like it's sort of student politics, right, Sure, when you're 0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:01.800 talking about it in Europe and France, you know, those 0:26:01.920 --> 0:26:06.520 ideas of fascism and communism have real historical context, and 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.920 I don't think for twenty years until I don't know, 0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:12.479 six or seven years ago, Maria Lea Penn just did 0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:16.080 enough to distance herself from that, from that target, and 0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:18.360 she was happy to say, We're not happy to say 0:26:18.400 --> 0:26:21.280 that she was a fascist, but she certainly didn't run 0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.879 away from that tag as far and as fast as 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:26.040 she should have. It just seems to strike me that 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.520 all of these parties, you know, in the center and 0:26:28.680 --> 0:26:30.960 you know, set a left, set to right when you've 0:26:31.040 --> 0:26:33.720 got this issue of migration which seems to drive people 0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.520 to the far right, instead of saying, you know, well 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:39.720 maybe we should do something about that and wind it back, 0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:42.760 then it's feminized people. I think that's pretty strange. We 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:44.360 see the same thing happening in Australia. 0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:46.000 No, no, that's fair, and I think a lot of 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:49.520 people that have those similar views when they start hearing 0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.680 people espousing those views of getting called racist, all of 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.720 a sudden, they think, well, hold on, I'm not racists. 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:58.040 You know, why are you saying that they're racist? If 0:26:58.320 --> 0:27:00.520 if that's me, No, No, I think they're There is 0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:06.360 some clearly some sense to a policy proposal, and Australia 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:09.080 has some very tough bipartisan. 0:27:08.600 --> 0:27:11.080 Sure sure, sure, sure, But anyway, hey, let's move on 0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:13.719 because we've got more news here from here at home 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:18.040 Alice Springs, where a snap three night curfew has been 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:22.800 put in place following the alleged robbery of four off 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:27.639 duty police officers, among other concerning stories, all alleged. Of course, 0:27:28.280 --> 0:27:32.720 here's what the NT Chief Minister, if a lawler had say, So. 0:27:32.840 --> 0:27:36.160 This curfew is about all of that, getting on top 0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:39.200 of the issues of crime, but also about returning people 0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:44.360 to country, returning people home to their own states as well. 0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:50.040 Matt Canavan, will this story, will these shocking tales out 0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:54.840 of the NT and Alice Springs get Prime Minister Anthony 0:27:54.920 --> 0:27:58.560 Albanisi onto the vip jet and to head out there 0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.120 and have a look at a talk people and see 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:01.680 what's going on. 0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:06.800 Well, look, I don't know if it's that important for 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:09.119 him to visit there. I do think it's important for 0:28:09.200 --> 0:28:12.040 the federal government to get more involved in this issue. 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:15.760 It's obviously one that's not being controlled by the Northern 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:18.919 Territory government. This has been going on now for years 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.719 and there are outbreaks of violence and crime every few months. 0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:30.639 The Northern Territories are small jurisdiction and seems unable to 0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:33.399 tackle this on its own. And it's not right that 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:36.879 Australians have their safety at threats as much as some 0:28:37.119 --> 0:28:39.320 would have in the war zone in this country, in 0:28:39.360 --> 0:28:42.000 the middle of this nation. So I think the federal 0:28:42.000 --> 0:28:43.640 I thought the federal government for a long time been 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:45.680 saying this needs to get involved with the police, with 0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:49.160 austrain Federal Police, with possibly even army if necessary, if 0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:52.760 it's that bad, get them involved. And so another trip, 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.480 another sightseeing visit for the Prime Minister is probably not 0:28:55.720 --> 0:28:59.080 that important, but actual boots on the ground, the assistances. 0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:01.640 And I think since the Voice has been running a 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:05.400 million miles from Indigenous issues, which is very regrettable. Yeah, 0:29:06.040 --> 0:29:08.040 these train people have their say about the Voice, it's done. 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:11.880 It needs to get over that and actually tackle the 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.880 practical issues on the ground that face many Indigenous Australians 0:29:15.280 --> 0:29:17.960 and those other Australians who live near Indigenous communities. 0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:19.640 It has to be tackled. 0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:21.200 We have to have laura and order re established in 0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:23.200 Alice Springs. As I say that, all in territory government 0:29:23.200 --> 0:29:24.840 seems unable to do that. 0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:27.120 Yeah, it does seem say like like, you know, since 0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:29.960 the Voice, Lever has been a bit m I A 0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:31.880 on this stuff, and to be fair of the national 0:29:31.960 --> 0:29:34.600 conversation has a bit am I on this stuff. But 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:35.840 you know, Liverra's in power. 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:38.200 Yeah, I think I think you need to undertake some 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:42.480 deep policy work on these you sort of record spendings 0:29:42.520 --> 0:29:48.640 of housing for indigenous for the indigenous communities in the 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:51.080 Northern Territory. I can't remember that was just before just 0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:57.600 after the voice. But you know, this, this curfew, I'm 0:29:57.680 --> 0:29:59.560 a little bit uncomfortable with it. I got to say, 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:04.040 Alice Springs, is the size of almost comparable size of Paramount. Sure, 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.280 and if there were half a dozen instances of crime, 0:30:07.400 --> 0:30:11.560 and absolutely vicious crime, and Matt's right, you need a 0:30:11.640 --> 0:30:14.840 greater interventionalist approach to stop that. No one here would 0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:17.680 be saying let's lock down Paramatta for three days now, 0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:21.920 maybe for twenty four hours to provide a circuit breaker. Maybe, 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:26.040 But you know, I do genuinely worry at what point 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:28.520 do we say as a government, Well, I think you're 0:30:28.760 --> 0:30:31.280 lock up and entire people like we saw during COVID. 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.000 You know, let's just lock them up and yeah, crime 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:34.720 will go to nothing. 0:30:34.760 --> 0:30:35.200 You'll see that. 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.400 Sure, No, No, I get that, and we you know, 0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.880 we we do need to have a broader conversation beyond 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.000 the stop gap solutions. You know, I get what we 0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:43.600 were saying. I'm gonna have to leave with the other. 0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:46.480 Sam Crosby, Matt Canavan Thank you so much for joining 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:50.000 me tonight. Don't go anywhere because we have got another 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.520 all star panel coming up after the break, including our 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.719 Nick Cater and how the left again loves to call 0:30:56.800 --> 0:30:59.760 everything far right. Let's talk about that some more after 0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:08.600 the Welcome back to the program. James Morrow here filling 0:31:08.680 --> 0:31:12.040 in for Paul on Palmerray Live. Let's continue our debate 0:31:12.480 --> 0:31:16.080 and joining me now is child and adolescent psychologist Claire 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:19.320 Row here in the studio and Nick Cater from the 0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:23.120 Menzies Research Center. But welcome to both of you. Thank 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:24.920 you so much. Now, Nick, I want to start with 0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:29.240 you because you wrote a great piece in the Australian 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:34.640 newspaper today titled spare us the far right Flannel It's 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.320 nothing more than juvenile abuse, and you go on to 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:43.200 criticize the recent demonization of anybody on the right, particularly 0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:47.080 in the wake of France's current election. Nick, this is 0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:51.040 juvenile abuse. What is this doing to our politics? 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:56.920 Well, is going to black and white and black hats 0:31:56.960 --> 0:32:00.480 white hats, you know, good and bad. But this whole 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:03.320 idea that the politics goes from the left to right, 0:32:03.480 --> 0:32:07.120 as you know, comes from the French National Assembly in 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:08.280 the eighteenth century. 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:08.520 Right. 0:32:08.600 --> 0:32:09.920 It's an arcane idea. 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.680 Politics doesn't fit in like that, but it suits the 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:16.280 left if I can call them that, to keep on 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.480 with this, because then they can say that anybody on 0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:23.440 the conservative side who's slightly more conservative than averagely. 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.320 Conservative is on the hard right. 0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:27.560 And this is what they've been saying a cause ahead 0:32:27.600 --> 0:32:30.800 of the French elections yesterday, to try and scare people 0:32:30.880 --> 0:32:32.760 away from voting for Marine. 0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:33.360 La Penz party. 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:36.760 They've been saying this is the first hard right government 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.080 in France since the war. Give me a break, I mean, 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:44.000 what is the RN got in common with the you know, 0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:49.120 the Fishi collaborationists who coz it up to the Nazis 0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:51.000 and deported ninety six thousand Jews. 0:32:51.240 --> 0:32:52.840 It's an absurd comparison. 0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:55.840 And in my piece this morning, as you know, I 0:32:55.920 --> 0:32:58.680 say they're actually talking about something else. What it is 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:03.040 is that people like pen people like Victor Alban in Hungary, 0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.280 people like Milders in Holland, they just opposed this whole 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:10.200 international project that the left is so keen on that 0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:13.920 all the decisions should be made at an international global level. No, 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:16.080 they say they should be made at a local level, 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.800 particularly on things like immigration. Of course, which is the 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.239 big thing across Europe now. They want to decide who 0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:25.240 comes to their country and the circumstances under which they 0:33:25.320 --> 0:33:26.320 come quite simple. 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:28.240 Yeah, And I mean if you look at some of 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:31.880 the anti semitism in the left side of politics in 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:34.480 France right now, I think it's pretty shocking. And you know, 0:33:34.600 --> 0:33:36.640 you would certainly if you were a French Jewel right now, 0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:39.720 you'd probably be a lot more concerned about these results 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.920 than if the so called fascist far right party got in. 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:46.280 And I want to ask you, though, Claire as a psychologist. 0:33:46.320 --> 0:33:49.080 Sam Crosby was here before the break. He made the 0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.560 point that the media kind of probably drove a lot 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.480 of the left vote because they scared people. But what 0:33:55.800 --> 0:33:58.720 is the effect of that kind of mass demonization of 0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:01.240 one side of politics that gives people this kind of 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:05.080 shorthand to just write off a whole side of politics. 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:07.760 Yeah, well, I think, as Nick said, there's this tendency 0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:12.360 and movement towards our elections being run now on local 0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:14.960 national issues in the best interest of. 0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:17.840 National policies, on things. 0:34:17.680 --> 0:34:20.440 Like immigration or they run I think, yeah, okay, on 0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:24.360 global issues, but on ideologies, and once you're voting because 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:29.000 you identify with an ideology of a party. It basically 0:34:29.160 --> 0:34:32.920 gives you a free right and permission to absolutely demonize 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:36.200 the other side. It's this kind of notion that well, 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:38.040 that's for the good of the collective that we have 0:34:38.160 --> 0:34:38.520 to do that. 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:40.279 And yeah, I mean I do think of. 0:34:40.320 --> 0:34:43.520 Anyone who's right leaning, suddenly we add that kind of 0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:47.200 word far in front of it. Very few times are 0:34:47.239 --> 0:34:50.000 you describing someone I think is right. It's always far right, 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.640 hard right, extreme right, And I think part of that 0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.400 is deliberate fear mongering. And then part of it, I 0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:58.879 think have they actually just lost touch with what far 0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:02.160 extreme right ease? Yeah, which is a complete as we know, 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:05.640 you know, violent fascist dictatorship that somehow comes full circle 0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:10.040 to meet a left socialist dictatorship. But yeah, it's somehow 0:35:10.200 --> 0:35:13.759 like left aunt they're just described as lefties, sir. 0:35:13.800 --> 0:35:15.960 Well, well they're just described to manstream. I mean, you 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:18.920 know how many times do you hear the Green subscribes 0:35:18.920 --> 0:35:20.640 as a far left party on the ABC? 0:35:21.480 --> 0:35:21.680 You know? 0:35:21.760 --> 0:35:24.920 And I think perhaps this is why people don't trust 0:35:25.040 --> 0:35:26.719 much of the media, because the same people who tell 0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:29.600 you that Joe Biden's okay also tell you that they're 0:35:29.680 --> 0:35:33.040 far right. But let's move on to another issue here 0:35:33.080 --> 0:35:35.320 which I know you, Claire are really passionate about. This 0:35:35.480 --> 0:35:38.600 is social media and the social media debate around kids. 0:35:38.640 --> 0:35:41.759 Opposite leader Peter Dutt has of course said they want 0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:45.279 to lift the minimum age to sixteen to get on 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.839 these things if elected. But now there's reports that many 0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:52.200 teenagers are coming out and criticizing the proposed policy. They 0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:55.880 say that social media is actually key to their healthy 0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:59.160 development and well being and creates a place where they 0:35:59.239 --> 0:36:04.279 can sos with friends, express themselves and access support. I mean, 0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:06.279 to me, that was just you know, going over to 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:08.000 base houses back in the day. But I don't know 0:36:08.000 --> 0:36:11.600 if we do that anymore. What do you think about this? 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:13.320 So are they the kids say. 0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:16.280 Exactly exactly? 0:36:16.600 --> 0:36:19.040 So I think you know, I'm a big advocate for 0:36:19.400 --> 0:36:22.440 no social media and in fact no smartphones under sixteen. 0:36:22.760 --> 0:36:22.920 Now. 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:25.040 The reason being is not just what they're exposed to 0:36:25.120 --> 0:36:27.799 on social media, it's what they're not doing. So I've 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:29.600 got kids that I see that are on their phones 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:31.879 five six, seven, eight hours a day. 0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:34.040 So if you go back, you don't want to see 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.160 what my spreed time alert looks like you're working. 0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:38.560 I mean, these are you know, these are fourteen thirteen 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.399 year olds, and you know they're supposed to be in school, 0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:42.960 and then where do they find these eight hours? So 0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:46.040 in a previous generation, what were they doing in those 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:47.560 eight hours that they're not doing? 0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:47.879 Now? 0:36:48.000 --> 0:36:49.439 Sure they were at their maid's place. 0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:51.560 Of course, kids are going to say, well, that's where 0:36:51.600 --> 0:36:53.360 I socialize because that's. 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:53.640 All they know. 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:56.239 That's all they know that that's how they've they've been 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.839 socializing on this platform. And it's like we're telling them 0:36:58.960 --> 0:37:00.480 we're going to take away socialization. 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:00.920 We're not. 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:03.760 We're going to hopefully wind it back to a play 0:37:03.960 --> 0:37:07.320 based childhood, which I think ends too early at twelve 0:37:07.400 --> 0:37:07.759 years old. 0:37:07.880 --> 0:37:09.440 Yeah, look, I think you're right. I think you're right 0:37:09.440 --> 0:37:12.440 about that. But at the same time, Nick Cator is 0:37:12.560 --> 0:37:16.080 some of the stuff about these limitations to social media. 0:37:16.320 --> 0:37:18.720 I also worry that in trying to fix the problem 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:22.160 with teenagers, you know, and young people, they could wind 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:25.200 up creating things that will suppress free speech and the 0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.960 ability of people to just you know, speak out about 0:37:28.080 --> 0:37:30.760 issues like we saw during the pandemic and at other times. 0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:34.080 Nick Cator, where do you stand on this whole thing? 0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:37.680 Should there be a minimum age for teens. And are 0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.680 you worried that, as with the E Safety Commissioner, which 0:37:40.719 --> 0:37:44.680 started about out being about children, that we could wind 0:37:44.800 --> 0:37:47.600 up having more regulation of adults that we don't need. 0:37:49.560 --> 0:37:52.920 Well, that's the problem, and I believe strongly there should 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:56.600 be proper age limits on kids accessing social media, just as. 0:37:57.080 --> 0:38:00.520 Driving cars or drinking alcohol. Right, there's no no issue 0:38:00.560 --> 0:38:00.719 with that. 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:04.160 But of course what we've seen in Australia is they 0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:07.719 set up an e Safety Commissioner with the express purpose 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:11.520 of keeping kids safe online and with it about five minutes, 0:38:11.680 --> 0:38:13.840 you know, the mission creep had said in sure and 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:16.000 that there are all these proposal, are therefore to be 0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:18.920 the sensor of a misinformation disinformation? 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.960 No, no, no, no, adults. Adults have to. 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:25.480 Take responsibility for themselves. Always saying here is that the 0:38:25.640 --> 0:38:28.960 evidence is very clear, James, You've seen it. You know, 0:38:29.200 --> 0:38:32.959 Jonathan Height's book lays this out quite clearly, that there's 0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:37.879 a spike in youth suicide, you depression, youth anxiety from 0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:42.560 twenty twelve when smartphones came in, and correlation is not causation. 0:38:42.719 --> 0:38:45.360 But I've looked at this closely and I'm convinced that 0:38:45.480 --> 0:38:48.640 that is occurring. So we just have to say thirteen 0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:51.719 is too young for Apple or Google to give you 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:54.400 their own a kid of their own account. You can 0:38:54.440 --> 0:38:56.520 sit on the family account until you're at a decent 0:38:56.560 --> 0:39:00.440 age sixteen or seventeen. It suits the big tech companies 0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:03.719 that stuck people in early. But that, I think is 0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:07.279 what Peter Dutton is saying. Essentially, It really is just saying, 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.200 you know, some stuff's too dangerous for kids' minds to 0:39:10.920 --> 0:39:12.960 be taken in to take in on their own. 0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:15.359 No, I think that's absolutely right. I think as well 0:39:15.440 --> 0:39:17.040 said there now. But let's say it stay on the 0:39:17.120 --> 0:39:18.880 kids here just for a second, because also we've had 0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:22.359 queens over Stephen Miles hitting out at opposition leader David 0:39:22.400 --> 0:39:26.920 Christoph Fooley's announced bit about adult time for adult crime. 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:28.600 Let's have a quick listen to this. 0:39:30.080 --> 0:39:34.240 The LMP's own police spokesperson says that they see crime 0:39:34.560 --> 0:39:37.440 as the way to win seats, that his job as 0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:41.440 their police spokesperson is to exploit crime to win seats, 0:39:41.719 --> 0:39:45.200 and that's all David Christopherhilly is doing here with another 0:39:45.640 --> 0:39:47.920 slick focus group's political. 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:51.840 Slogan, Claire, you're the child development expert here, who do 0:39:51.920 --> 0:39:52.719 you come down on here. 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.840 Well, I do think that there needs to be a 0:39:56.960 --> 0:40:01.160 relook at not necessarily change what we've already got, but 0:40:01.239 --> 0:40:04.640 the ability for magistrates to actually put in tougher sentences 0:40:04.760 --> 0:40:07.400 they have. We give magistrates a discretion of you know, 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.040 minimum sentencing up to maximum sentencing. The issue is that 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:12.560 it's not being currently used. And I know that child 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:15.360 protection groups will say that, you know, early contact with 0:40:15.440 --> 0:40:18.280 the law, it's just going to increase the likelihood of reoffending. 0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:21.880 I'm talking for the ones that are chronic reoffenders already. 0:40:22.000 --> 0:40:24.279 It's not our first go to and I don't think 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:26.719 that ten year old should be having life sentences. Of course, 0:40:26.800 --> 0:40:29.600 not that's not helping anyone. It's not keeping society safe. 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:32.839 It's certainly not rehabilitating that kid. But when you've got 0:40:33.600 --> 0:40:36.440 teens that are constant reoffenders and all they get is 0:40:36.440 --> 0:40:37.880 a slap on the wrist and they walk out the 0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:42.560 next day and they're violent again, there's no repercussions there 0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:43.239 or deterrence. 0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:43.560 Yeah. 0:40:43.600 --> 0:40:45.239 No, look, that's fair enough. Now, before I let you 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.520 guys both go here, I want to talk about a 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:50.040 story which I find fascinating because you know, I fly 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:51.880 back and forth to New York a fair bit. And 0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:54.400 I know, Nick, I think eure overseas at the moment too. 0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:58.239 There's a new trend where people just sit there and 0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:01.640 watch the flight map. And I got to say this. 0:41:01.920 --> 0:41:05.360 I do this myself. It's called raw dogging a flight, 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:08.840 Nick cater, I gotta say I'm a raw dogger. I 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:10.879 just watched the flight map. I don't watch any movies. 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:13.200 What do you think about this trend? Are you a 0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:15.160 movie guy? Or do you just watch the map? 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:18.720 Look, I sort of get it, James. 0:41:18.719 --> 0:41:20.960 I mean, I love going on long flights because you're 0:41:21.040 --> 0:41:23.720 cut off, right, you don't you don't have to answer emails. 0:41:23.760 --> 0:41:26.080 I mean, I hate the fact they're bringing in Wi 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:27.200 Fi onto planes. 0:41:27.200 --> 0:41:29.399 I'd rather they didn't. It is that time to switch off. 0:41:29.920 --> 0:41:32.160 And flight mats are fantastic, aren't they. 0:41:32.160 --> 0:41:34.360 I mean I flew in from city to hell Sinky 0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:37.360 and suddenly discovered I was coming in from the north, Like, 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:39.400 how does that work? How do you arrive from the 0:41:39.480 --> 0:41:42.320 north the hell sinky? But yeah, I mean that's a 0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:45.120 bit of but yeah, I sawt of get it. But 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:46.800 I couldn't sit there and do nothing. I must have 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:49.000 been I do have to have something going on a 0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:51.640 book or usually a laptop working. 0:41:52.760 --> 0:41:55.840 Claire, I just did JFK to Tokyo to Sydney and 0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:57.839 I just stared at that map and it was so nice. 0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:00.960 Is this psychologically helpful? Healthy? Or am I just like 0:42:01.080 --> 0:42:03.200 completely crazy here? I know we don't see crazy anymore. 0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:07.000 Well, it is psychologically healthy, but it's you know, do 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:08.439 what I say, not what I do, because that would 0:42:08.520 --> 0:42:11.279 drive me nas And if the baby's crying behind me 0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:12.759 and I've got someone talking to me, I need to 0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:14.960 put in the movie or the headphones or the music. 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:17.080 But it is it is nice just to have a 0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:18.600 switch off, like Nick said. 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:20.600 Of no stimulation, no one can get to you. I 0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:23.600 don't want to connect to the Wi Fi. But yeah, 0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:26.719 it is psychologically healthy. But if you're staring at that map, 0:42:27.000 --> 0:42:28.800 I reckon that it'd increase my anxiety. 0:42:29.360 --> 0:42:31.640 Indeed, I don't well fair enough, Look, I just like 0:42:31.719 --> 0:42:33.160 to watch the map. I like to know where I am. 0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:35.239 I like the speed, I like the direction. I love 0:42:35.320 --> 0:42:38.520 all of that stuff. Claro, Nick Cater, thank you so 0:42:38.640 --> 0:42:41.480 much for being on. Now stick with us because we've 0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.640 got a lot more to talk about coming up next. 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:48.120 Find of the payment is the manifestation of identity politics 0:42:48.239 --> 0:42:51.320 in this country. So what does this mean for the 0:42:51.440 --> 0:43:00.920 future of Australia. Parnell Beginners joins us next. Welcome back 0:43:00.920 --> 0:43:03.719 to the program. James Mara here for Paul Murray Live Now. 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:07.279 Last night I was talking about Fatima payment and the 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:11.320 rise of sectarian politics and why it makes me so 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:16.840 nervous to think that people would vote along religious lines. 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:20.799 Paul McGinnis wrote a fantastic article with The City Morning 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:25.160 Herald over the weekend talking about this precise issue, saying 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:29.320 that Australia will lose if Payman's identity politics wins. And 0:43:29.440 --> 0:43:32.319 I am so glad to say she joins us here 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:37.240 on this set tonight, Pardow. Let's talk about this issue 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:42.759 of identity politics, religion and particularly Islam. Now. One of 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:46.279 the things that you talk about in your peace is 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:51.080 political Islam versus regular Islam and what this means in 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:51.920 the body politic. 0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:54.920 Yeah, and that's really important to understand, I think, because 0:43:55.120 --> 0:43:57.319 I think a lot of people in Australia have only 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:01.120 come across a non political ISTHM. So in the public 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:03.880 sphere in Australia we see people like ed Husick and 0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:08.480 Ali whose practice of their religion is really non political. 0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:12.640 They put it within a framework of Australian values, in 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:16.360 which case nobody has any objection to anybody holding a 0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:20.200 particular faith, the faith that they practice. But then there 0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:24.520 is another type of Islam which we see mainly manifesting 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:30.320 in countries which are you know, unmentionably horrible sometimes you know, 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:34.560 in countries which are water on, like serio sectarian countries 0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:38.160 like Afghanistan and so on. And this kind of political 0:44:38.400 --> 0:44:45.160 Islam tends to tends to be aiming towards establishing a caliphate. Now, 0:44:45.200 --> 0:44:47.680 I don't want to be alarmist about this in Australia. 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:51.120 I think it's really important not to be alarmist because 0:44:51.440 --> 0:44:55.120 but we do have to be aware that there are 0:44:55.239 --> 0:44:59.319 these two trends of Islam. And when political Islam comes 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:03.720 in contact identity politics, then we have to be especially 0:45:03.800 --> 0:45:06.759 aware that people are aligning themselves with a set of 0:45:07.000 --> 0:45:10.520 values that can be put above the liberal democratic values 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:12.880 of Australia which are so important to us. 0:45:13.040 --> 0:45:14.759 Yeah, and you know what strikespeare is really interesting in 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:16.960 this whole debate here, and this whole discussion, is that 0:45:17.360 --> 0:45:19.640 you've got this weird situation where the Greens on the 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.320 hard left are the first ones to scream about, you know, 0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:25.000 the Australian Christian lobby, or to say, you know, when 0:45:25.080 --> 0:45:28.839 Tony Abbott was Prime Minister, Oh, his Catholicism is influencing 0:45:28.960 --> 0:45:32.279 his government, or Scott Morrison's Pentecostalism and all of that, 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:35.560 you know, very viciously. And yet they seem to be 0:45:35.680 --> 0:45:41.160 making common cause with people with a political religious program 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:42.879 that's really retrograde. 0:45:43.600 --> 0:45:46.080 Well I'm not sure they know what they are making 0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:48.839 common cause with, because as you've seen, you know, there 0:45:48.880 --> 0:45:50.560 have been a lot of jokes made about. 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:51.040 The Queers forgot. 0:45:52.680 --> 0:45:55.440 So there is a real question as to whether they 0:45:55.640 --> 0:46:00.319 understand the religion that they have aligned themselves with. When 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.520 they when they argue for her Mask, when they claim 0:46:03.680 --> 0:46:07.600 that her Mass is actually just a freedom fighting organization. 0:46:07.840 --> 0:46:11.080 There is not really a great deal of understanding, a 0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:14.080 great depth of understanding of the religion or the organization, 0:46:14.480 --> 0:46:16.759 or the region the entire region of the Middle East 0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:20.560 in this. So that is the first part to start with. 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:24.680 I mean, you'll see that ever since Fatima Payman left 0:46:24.760 --> 0:46:31.399 the Labor Party, the left has been claiming that everybody else, 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:33.960 including the incredibly right wing, Sydney Morning. 0:46:33.840 --> 0:46:37.840 Herald has has been. 0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:45.440 Has been, has been islamophobic for criticizing Fatima Payman's actions, right, 0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:48.480 and they're doing that because there is a sort of 0:46:48.600 --> 0:46:53.360 knee jerk reaction in Australia still where to claim for 0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:57.880 those groups to claim that any analysis of a situation, 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:03.200 or any any attempt to put and act into the 0:47:03.239 --> 0:47:06.960 broader context of a politics or a cultural movement that's 0:47:07.000 --> 0:47:10.600 happening worldwide can be seen if it affects a Muslim 0:47:10.680 --> 0:47:11.959 person as Islamic phobe. 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:13.879 But it is just because then you know, the City 0:47:13.960 --> 0:47:16.000 Morning Herald, people on the sort of the general left 0:47:16.040 --> 0:47:18.359 as well, you know, the ABC, all these sorts of people. 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:21.040 When they look at Islam, they see something exotic and 0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:23.920 different versus you know, and that's why they treat that 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:26.600 differently and want to protect it versus something that they 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:28.920 see as mainstream, like Christianity, like something that. 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:31.680 They don't understand and haven't come into contact with. And 0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:34.000 you know, look, I mean I would not want to 0:47:34.040 --> 0:47:37.960 trash Islam wholesale. Look, Islam obviously had a wonderful renaissance 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:40.359 and we and we have it to thank for many 0:47:40.480 --> 0:47:44.000 of the early scientific innovations that humans have based much 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:48.200 of our cultural learning on the mathematics and so on. However, 0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:52.239 in the modern world it is not that force of 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:53.239 and when you. 0:47:53.440 --> 0:47:56.840 See it in places like you know, Germany, for example, 0:47:57.080 --> 0:47:58.960 it becomes quite retrograde. 0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:01.800 Right, and you know that is precisely the thing. It 0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:05.319 has become a sort of retrograde is exactly the right word. 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:11.239 Retrogregade action against a sense that that the Islamic world 0:48:11.400 --> 0:48:14.640 is threatened by the West. Now, the West doesn't feel 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:18.239 generally as threatened by the Islamic world, but there is 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:21.040 this sort of sense of a clash of cultures which 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:25.000 tends to be felt more in the Middle East. Indeed, 0:48:25.040 --> 0:48:28.080 we're acting on that in Germany or in western countries. 0:48:28.280 --> 0:48:30.080 Part now we're going to have to leave there. Parnal Beginnis. 0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:32.239 Thank you so much, brilliant piece and seeing morning Harold 0:48:32.320 --> 0:48:35.080 check her out every Saturday or every Sunday. Sorry, thank 0:48:35.160 --> 0:48:37.960 you so much. Now that's it for me tonight. Stay 0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:40.239 tuned for the late debate. I'll be back tomorrow night 0:48:40.400 --> 0:48:42.560 and the rest of this week and next week. Have 0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:43.200 a great night.