Speaker 1: From the Sky News Center. This is Paul Murray Live.
Speaker 2: Hey here we are folks, big Monday night, after the
Speaker 2: first day of the week. That wasn't so bad, now
Speaker 2: was it? James Morrow here sitting in tonight and for
Speaker 2: the next two weeks for the great man himself on
Speaker 2: Paul Murray Live. Thanks for being here. And you know what,
Speaker 2: here's a bit of good news for you. Chalk one
Speaker 2: up for the good guys. This sort of our friends
Speaker 2: at Wooli's, you know, the guys who have our best
Speaker 2: interests at heart, have been overtaken by a new flush
Speaker 2: of patriotism, it seems, and just in time for the
Speaker 2: Paris Olympics, where I'm hoping it's not too late to
Speaker 2: get molotov cocktail making and tear gas dodging in as
Speaker 2: a few late entry sports. Now, my colleague at the
Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph and Ghira Brajewadg reports that Woolies will again
Speaker 2: start selling the Australian flo I know too. I suppose
Speaker 2: let us deck out our lounge rooms for all those
Speaker 2: Olympics viewing parties in a few weeks time now. With
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty four olymp Paraslympics beginning later this month,
Speaker 2: and as a proud Australian retailer, we are pleased once again,
Speaker 2: they said to be the official fresh food partner of
Speaker 2: the Australian Olympic and Paralympic teams. Will were said in
Speaker 2: a statement to staff. Now given the Australian flag is
Speaker 2: the official flag of the Australian Olympic Committee and of
Speaker 2: course our team competing in Paris, a locally made handheld
Speaker 2: Australian flag made from long lasting materials such as timber
Speaker 2: and polyester, will also be available to customers Lucky Us
Speaker 2: to purchase across our supermarkets and selected Metro stores. Well,
Speaker 2: I have to ask myself, will Woollies also go back
Speaker 2: to celebrating Australia Day. I think we'll have to wait
Speaker 2: five or six months to answer that question. But I
Speaker 2: tell you what, I think I already know the answer already.
Speaker 2: And also color me cynical here, but I wonder does
Speaker 2: this snap decision announced in an all staff announcement that
Speaker 2: was sure to be handed to the press. Well again,
Speaker 2: I might just be a little too jaded, but this
Speaker 2: feels like something that they came up with in the
Speaker 2: Woolies c suite to head off Peter Dutton's attacks on
Speaker 2: the supermarket giants, attacks like this one, which he made
Speaker 2: just on the weekend at the Liberal National Party convention
Speaker 2: in Brisbane.
Speaker 3: For too long, there's been a lack of competitive pressure
Speaker 3: on the big supermarkets. I have many decades the big
Speaker 3: chins have exploited their growing market power. They forced many
Speaker 3: of the independent and smaller supermarkets out of the market
Speaker 3: or bought them up. Today were Worth, Cole's and Eldie
Speaker 3: control seventy four percent of the market. In contrast, the
Speaker 3: three big supermarket chains in the US and the UK
Speaker 3: control about thirty to forty percent of the market in
Speaker 3: those countries. With market dominance to Australia's big supermarkets of
Speaker 3: mistreated farmers and supplieres. Within sufficient competition, there's been little
Speaker 3: incentive for Australi's big supermarkets to lower prices for consumers,
Speaker 3: even during Labour's cost of living crisis, which has seen
Speaker 3: food prices go up by over eleven percent.
Speaker 2: And you know what he's right. Today in the Australian
Speaker 2: Robert guard Lives and talked about what he expects from
Speaker 2: the review into supermarket pricing. He says that he believes
Speaker 2: the review will find, among other things that the gross
Speaker 2: supermarket margins, calls Wilworth and others parade to the politicians
Speaker 2: are not worth a bag of beans. He also said
Speaker 2: that insufficient investment has been made in the supply chain,
Speaker 2: including temperature controls, leading to incredible waste which need to
Speaker 2: be fixed, and the rewards of this investment need to
Speaker 2: be shared with suppliers, particularly smaller suppliers and customers. In
Speaker 2: other words, he said, there's growing people customers, you and me,
Speaker 2: suppliers often farmers and primary producers, and of course making
Speaker 2: it impossible for competitors to get into the market, shoring
Speaker 2: up their position. Now this is fascinating to me because
Speaker 2: Dottin is putting the Liberals once the big end of
Speaker 2: town party, on the side of the little guy, as
Speaker 2: Benzi's once put it the forgotten Australians. So what's Labour's
Speaker 2: answer to this? Are they going along with it? Ah
Speaker 2: glib sound bites.
Speaker 4: It looks like we're now going to have an intervention
Speaker 4: where one would assume in the town here, if Woolley's
Speaker 4: will be forced to sell guests's gonna buy Colls or
Speaker 4: will we have a nationalized supermarket chain. This isn't a
Speaker 4: supermarket policy. It's a super Marxist policy.
Speaker 2: Super Marxist. Yes, we see we did their Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: what a zinger. But will that bring prices down? I
Speaker 2: don't think so. Look, I'm all for free markets, but
Speaker 2: a duopoly that lobbies hard to maintain its market share
Speaker 2: using government protection and regulation while screwing people down the
Speaker 2: line is hardly real red and tooth and claw capitalism.
Speaker 2: It's big corporatism, the sort of thing that in the
Speaker 2: banking sector of previous labor Prime Minister Paul Keating sought
Speaker 2: to bust up Food for Thought Albo. Now, before I
Speaker 2: bring in our first guest tonight, can I bring you
Speaker 2: the latest from the Joe Biden chronicles. Look, we all
Speaker 2: know about the Horror Show debate, and however, since that
Speaker 2: went down, the man has been trying to convince us. Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm okay, folks. Well, let's check in on how that
Speaker 2: effort's going, shall we. On Sunday, Joe Biden decided to
Speaker 2: go to church, and not just any church, a historically
Speaker 2: black church in Philadelphia. Joe Biden has of course told
Speaker 2: us many many times over a year over the years
Speaker 2: that he grew up in the black church. So let's see,
Speaker 2: he must be pretty comfortable in that sort of environment. Yes,
Speaker 2: let that spirit move you, mister president. And then there
Speaker 2: was this bizarre moment. Just watch it on your screen. Here.
Speaker 2: What you see right now is the pastor of the
Speaker 2: church giving the president money that he can then go
Speaker 2: and take down to the collection plate as if he
Speaker 2: was a child. I mean, seriously, watch him. Is he
Speaker 2: okay there? Well, I think we know the answer to that.
Speaker 2: I mean, Joe Biden has claimed that he is a
Speaker 2: regular Mass goer, that he used to go to black
Speaker 2: churches after going to Mass, and hell, I bet you
Speaker 2: could find instances if he had dug into the records
Speaker 2: far enough where he claimed that he grew up going
Speaker 2: to Hindu temples and Shinto shrines if you went back
Speaker 2: into the records. But you'd think there'd be some basic
Speaker 2: familiarity then with facilities such as the collection plate. But
Speaker 2: this is not all. It also turns out that for
Speaker 2: some time, Joe Biden's events staff have been forced to
Speaker 2: use some pretty detailed instructions to get him through events.
Speaker 2: Check this out. According to Newside Axios, which once upon
Speaker 2: a time was one of Biden's biggest defenders, the president's
Speaker 2: staff prepare a short document with large print and photos
Speaker 2: that include his precise path to a podium, according to
Speaker 2: an event template the White House sends to staffers. According
Speaker 2: to Axios, one staffer reported, quote, I staffed a simple
Speaker 2: fundraiser at a private residence, but they treated it like
Speaker 2: it was a NATO summit with his movements. The staffer
Speaker 2: went on to say, quote, it surprised me that a
Speaker 2: seasoned political pro like the President would need detailed verbal
Speaker 2: and visual instructions on how to enter and exit a room.
Speaker 2: Of course, this is Joe Biden we're talking about, and
Speaker 2: I know the consensus is that Joe Biden is out
Speaker 2: of the race and it's just a matter of time,
Speaker 2: and that because it's the legally and politically easiest thing
Speaker 2: to do, Kamala Harris will take over and lead the
Speaker 2: Democrats to an ignominious defeat anyway, even if the party is,
Speaker 2: as she says, unburdened by what has been. But let's
Speaker 2: just have a little note of caution here. Elections that
Speaker 2: looked like the rights to win have a habit of
Speaker 2: going the other way at the last minute these days.
Speaker 2: Just look at France, where a voting system that was
Speaker 2: installed by Charles de Gaull after World War II to
Speaker 2: keep the Communists out of power, has now brought them
Speaker 2: closer to power. The left is very adept gaming systems,
Speaker 2: and when they want to win, they pull out all
Speaker 2: the stops, not just in France but around the world. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: again over to Axios, it seems that Congressional Democrats are
Speaker 2: doing their damnedest to prevent a Republican bill demanding that
Speaker 2: voters provide proof of citizenship to register to vote in
Speaker 2: federal elections from becoming law. Now to me, this seems
Speaker 2: like a pretty sensible proposal. I can't think of any
Speaker 2: reasons why someone would be against it. Well, there's maybe
Speaker 2: one reason. Anyway, It's not what a lot of people
Speaker 2: want to hear, but that Trump victory is going to
Speaker 2: be a lot harder fought than I think a lot
Speaker 2: of folk on the right realize. Don't get cocky. Now,
Speaker 2: let's get into all this in the day's News with
Speaker 2: Sky News contributor Sam Crosby, Great to have you here
Speaker 2: at the desk and National Senator Matt Canavan. Welcome to
Speaker 2: you both. Something for both parties in the latest news poll,
Speaker 2: Labor have all the have the important two party preferred
Speaker 2: lead fifty one forty nine. But coalition, the Coalition has
Speaker 2: taken the lead in New South Wales which is important
Speaker 2: for their re election efforts. Matt, Matt Canavan, tell me
Speaker 2: who is the happier party right now looking at these
Speaker 2: poll results.
Speaker 5: Well, look, I mean I think the Labor Party, the
Speaker 5: first term lib of government, has to be nervous. As
Speaker 5: you say, the Coalition's not in the lead in the polls,
Speaker 5: but it's very very close and for any first term
Speaker 5: opposition that gives you a bit of hunger. There's a
Speaker 5: lot of unity on our side of politics. We've got
Speaker 5: to I think a leader that's taken an ambitious agenda
Speaker 5: on nuclear energy in particular, so there's something to drive
Speaker 5: for and pursue here. And certainly this next election is
Speaker 5: very close, so it could be anyone's for the taking.
Speaker 1: So I think that gives the opposition some hope here.
Speaker 5: And it is a bit unusual, just two years in
Speaker 5: a government for it to be so so close at
Speaker 5: this stage. It's close than it was in Rudd's first
Speaker 5: term at this stage. It got closer much closer into
Speaker 5: the election.
Speaker 1: Then, and so you know, you've got to look at
Speaker 1: why that's the case.
Speaker 5: And I went back and read Anthony Alberanneze's victory speech
Speaker 5: in preparation for this evening, and you know, he made
Speaker 5: a few promises there, none of which basically have come true.
Speaker 5: He ended, if he promised to end the climate wars,
Speaker 5: we're still larking about energy because he hasn't delivered his
Speaker 5: twildred and seventy five dollars cut to power prices.
Speaker 1: He promised a voice, obviously late and object valure.
Speaker 5: We promised even to strengthen man care about building rights
Speaker 5: for a record lows. He did talk a lot about
Speaker 5: the fact he came from public housing, but you know,
Speaker 5: I don't think many people thought that the promise was
Speaker 5: that people would be forced into public housing or no
Speaker 5: housing thanks to his government.
Speaker 1: I don't think they count that one as a promise. Cam.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, fair enough to Sam. One of the things
Speaker 2: that strikes me about these poll results is that they
Speaker 2: come on the back of weeks when labor has been
Speaker 2: forced to talk about themselves and they have all of
Speaker 2: these things out there. You know that they're trying to
Speaker 2: sell to people, but it seems like no one seems
Speaker 2: to care about the much type Stage three tax cuts.
Speaker 2: You know, can we get our money back please? On
Speaker 2: all those ads they sold us, Hey you're getting the
Speaker 2: tax becaut Thank you Labor for all of that. But
Speaker 2: you know, it seems like they're talking too much about
Speaker 2: themselves and not about enough about what people are going through.
Speaker 6: Look quite probably, quite possibly, I think that's one of
Speaker 6: the reasons that the Prime Minister was so annoyed at
Speaker 6: the senator payments distraction in the news fight at the
Speaker 6: point that we were talking about the Stage three tax cuts.
Speaker 6: You know, we ended up having to talk for days
Speaker 6: and weeks now about you know, the potential new party
Speaker 6: and an independent Senate and all the rest of it.
Speaker 6: I think, you know, to be fair, I think MAT's right.
Speaker 6: I think this is a poll that will make a
Speaker 6: number of people in the government nervous. There is some
Speaker 6: good news in there for Labor. Albow is still a
Speaker 6: preferred prime minister everywhere but Queensland. Now that's a problem
Speaker 6: because there is a couple of seats that we need
Speaker 6: to hold on to in Queensland that are under a threat.
Speaker 6: But I think they will take some comfort in being
Speaker 6: ahead in all those other states and quite companably. But
Speaker 6: look to Matt's point about first term governments. You go
Speaker 6: back to Bob Hawk eighty four, John Howard in ninety six,
Speaker 6: Kevin Rudd slash Julie Gillard twenty eleven, and then Malcolm
Speaker 6: Tenble twenty sixteen. First term governments are normally pretty bad
Speaker 6: at getting re elected that first time. It's normally a
Speaker 6: lot closer when the reality seeing home to people that
Speaker 6: they tossed the old government out, the new government comes
Speaker 6: in and you know, the sun comes up and it's
Speaker 6: the same old country and things are hard to change.
Speaker 6: So traditionally first term governments don't go that well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look that's fair said. But I think, Matah, what's that, Matt.
Speaker 5: Well, I was just going to say that. I think
Speaker 5: the difference here is one. This has been close now
Speaker 5: for a while. It often gets closer close to the election,
Speaker 5: which I mentioned Kevin Rudd's situation had and Bob Hawk
Speaker 5: wasn't close until he called the election.
Speaker 1: He called it a bit early and people seem to
Speaker 1: take a front at that.
Speaker 5: But the other issue here is that the Anthony Alberanezi governor,
Speaker 5: and he has a couple of seat majority, only came.
Speaker 1: To government with the one seat majority. Have won to
Speaker 1: buy elections since.
Speaker 5: But now those other governments, the first terme governments have
Speaker 5: tended to have a bit more of a buffer. So
Speaker 5: I think that's why the government be quite nervous here.
Speaker 5: They kind of need to win seats somewhere to stay
Speaker 5: in the majority, because.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's important to say. One of the things
Speaker 2: that I'm curious about too is the drift that we
Speaker 2: see now to the LEF with the Greeds. You've got
Speaker 2: to eighteen to thirty four. Is eighteen thirty five's shifting
Speaker 2: massively now to the Greeds. That's got to be a
Speaker 2: big concern because you're going to start to pull the
Speaker 2: party a part at both ends here if you're not careful.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Look, this is something that the Labor Party's been struggling
Speaker 6: with for twenty something years now. We don't have a
Speaker 6: good answer for it yet, you know, we play whack
Speaker 6: a mole. The problem is that when the Green's win
Speaker 6: lower House seats, they tend to be pretty hard to
Speaker 6: extract from them, and we you know, I think the
Speaker 6: truth is we haven't got a great answer for how
Speaker 6: we deal with them. I think facing up to the
Speaker 6: core issues that attract Green's voters like climate change, like housing.
Speaker 6: More and more, I think it's moved away from refugee
Speaker 6: and climate change now I think it's gone to housing.
Speaker 6: I think that's got to be the answer, actually dealing
Speaker 6: with not the political policies and the bubble or the
Speaker 6: noise and the politics, but actually figuring out how do
Speaker 6: we get that generation of Australians into their own home.
Speaker 2: If not, I think, I think Sam, you have hit
Speaker 2: on something there, you said just a moment ago. The
Speaker 2: shift has been from climate and all that, which are
Speaker 2: fairly conceptual issues, to housing, which is the real thing.
Speaker 2: I think the first side of the politics that solves
Speaker 2: this housing issue gives young people a chance onto the
Speaker 2: house of the ladder. They will lock in a generation.
Speaker 2: That's just my thought. But you know who listens to me.
Speaker 1: You do.
Speaker 2: We're here on Palmery Live. Anyway. Let's move on to
Speaker 2: another issue, and it's an issue that just won't go
Speaker 2: away for labor, immigration detention. Now, there's a new report
Speaker 2: today from The Australian that the Federal Court has quote
Speaker 2: convened a special panel of judges to tackle a new
Speaker 2: wave of constitutional challenges engulfing the legal system in the
Speaker 2: wake of the NZYQ decision unquote. This means that next month,
Speaker 2: guess who is going to be the main character of
Speaker 2: the government's dramas again our old friend Andrew Giles. Sam.
Speaker 2: But he had a chance when this issue went to
Speaker 2: the back burner to relatively quietly shelve him, get him
Speaker 2: out of the way, at least take a scalp show
Speaker 2: is doing something, and he didn't, and it might hurt
Speaker 2: him again that he's still got Giles there. What do
Speaker 2: you think should you have let Giles go? No?
Speaker 6: I think I think the opportunity here is for Peter Dutton,
Speaker 6: I really do. I think if he can come to
Speaker 6: the table and show that he's not doctor No. You know,
Speaker 6: he is a constructive, engaging opposition leader and he can
Speaker 6: come and put forward a plan to solve this problem.
Speaker 6: You know, at the end of the day, I imagine
Speaker 6: all the parties, possibly with the exception of the Greens,
Speaker 6: want these dangerous criminals to stay where they are, to
Speaker 6: stay in jail. So how do we ensure that they
Speaker 6: stay in jail? What's the answer? You know, I think
Speaker 6: there's an opportunity for Peter Dutton to come to the
Speaker 6: table and say here's my plan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but how anything to do that when you know
Speaker 2: when they had the new legislation and they dropped it
Speaker 2: on him at nine o'clock in the morning or seven
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning the day they were going to
Speaker 2: introduce it to Parliament.
Speaker 6: Under the plan I'm not you know reproscut Yeah, that happened,
Speaker 6: yees ago. That's done and dusted. But the chance is
Speaker 6: now here before all of these cases hit the courts,
Speaker 6: the chances now here for Peter dunt't to come forward
Speaker 6: and say, here's my plan for how you should solve it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, then that brings up Matt Canavan. Then you
Speaker 2: know the question of on the one hand, hitting Andrew
Speaker 2: Giles over and over again on this is politically very
Speaker 2: profitable in the short term, but in the long run
Speaker 2: there is that issue of what do you do to say, well,
Speaker 2: here's how we constructively solve it. What is the coalition
Speaker 2: going to bring forward on this as this develops?
Speaker 5: Well, well, James, I'm not quite sure why the government
Speaker 5: hasn't used the powers that were given to it before Christmas.
Speaker 5: I mean, so we're talking now more than seven years,
Speaker 5: seven months ago, and the Coalition was very cooperative that
Speaker 5: week it was all done quite quite quickly in light
Speaker 5: of that d Zyq decision that the government the day
Speaker 5: wasn't prepared for it.
Speaker 1: I remember one of the minister saying, well, look, we.
Speaker 5: Were told we were going to win, so that's why
Speaker 5: we hadn't prepared any legislation in the event we lose. Well,
Speaker 5: it's no way to govern a country to just do
Speaker 5: so by hoping for the best. You've got to prepare
Speaker 5: for the worst. And the government was called flat footed there.
Speaker 5: But as it may, the Coalition did help get that
Speaker 5: legislation through, just to rush it through just before Christmas.
Speaker 5: But to my knowledge, at least when I last checked
Speaker 5: a few weeks ago, and I haven't seen reports otherwise,
Speaker 5: the government has not used those increased powers or increased
Speaker 5: impro protection orders they could do to keep people in jail.
Speaker 5: As Sam said, So look, I'm sure the Coalation would
Speaker 5: look at other proposals.
Speaker 1: That legislation you.
Speaker 5: Mentioned didn't deal directly with that issue. It was a
Speaker 5: bit blunt and that's why we weren't so keen on it.
Speaker 5: But I'm sure we'd look at other proposals. I mean
Speaker 5: it's a bit hard to do so from opposition, I
Speaker 5: mean it's really got to come from governments and coverment departments.
Speaker 5: These are very technical areas and oppositions just don't have
Speaker 5: the staff and legal drafting.
Speaker 1: Expertise to do this. But yeah, that's why they're in government.
Speaker 5: I mean, but we're happy to help, especially given that
Speaker 5: this government has presided over the greatest release of foreign
Speaker 5: convicts onto our shore since the days of Arthur Philip.
Speaker 2: Well, that is a sort of a fair point though, so,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they did try to come to
Speaker 2: the party on that legislation. But the ultimate thing here
Speaker 2: is that Giles was caught flat footed. They thought that
Speaker 2: that High Court case, the Ends in YQ case, was
Speaker 2: going to come down in their favor. And yet if
Speaker 2: you go back and you read the final judgment, it
Speaker 2: was clear that you know, back in March last year,
Speaker 2: the Court was already singling, this isn't going your way.
Speaker 2: You gotta have something on deck to deal with this.
Speaker 6: Look, you might be you might well be right, and
Speaker 6: I dare say history has shown that you are right.
Speaker 2: That said, it is an extravinly right.
Speaker 6: But it's an extraordinary decision that the High Court brought us.
Speaker 6: You know, I don't think any government of any political
Speaker 6: flavor would have looked at this and said, oh no,
Speaker 6: that's okay to release these people with these criminal histories,
Speaker 6: just let them loose. I don't think anyone thought that
Speaker 6: was in any way likely. I don't think the opposition
Speaker 6: was saying, no, this is coming down, what are you
Speaker 6: doing about it?
Speaker 2: And nor should they? Yeah, you know, I just think
Speaker 2: we have to say that.
Speaker 5: Was well the Department was the Department had been warning
Speaker 5: the government of this potential.
Speaker 1: We know that mentioned how the hearings were going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do know that, Matt, and we also know
Speaker 2: that Albanese was very cagey about, you know, saying who
Speaker 2: these people were and said, oh no, no, that's a
Speaker 2: state matter. We're not going to get involved in that.
Speaker 2: But let's go on because there's so much else to
Speaker 2: cover here. I want to talk about the French elections
Speaker 2: and the fallout of this is absolutely fascinating and I'm
Speaker 2: sure everyone at home you're across the story. Marie Le
Speaker 2: Penn's National Rally party looked set for a big win,
Speaker 2: but then the runoff results overnight show the country's actually
Speaker 2: going to the left, with the Macron Technocrats and a
Speaker 2: much further left party getting together doing deals to make
Speaker 2: sure they boxed the La penn party. And now there
Speaker 2: were some pretty wild scenes on the streets of France afterwards,
Speaker 2: and said, look, you gotta love the French left. They
Speaker 2: riot when they win, they riot when they lose, They
Speaker 2: riot on a day ending in why Matt Matt Canavan.
Speaker 2: First of all, give me your take on this. It's
Speaker 2: basically only in the urban cores that the left did well,
Speaker 2: but everybody else in France seems to be sick of
Speaker 2: Macran's managerialism and seemingly unlimited, uncontrolled immigration. Did the left
Speaker 2: unfairly gain the system here? Well?
Speaker 5: I like your opening there that saying to me that
Speaker 5: those protesters were protesting and being angry because they didn't
Speaker 5: have the reason to protest, but they thought that by winning,
Speaker 5: so very upset and decided to protest about it. But
Speaker 5: hopefully not too much damage is done in Paris, especially
Speaker 5: ahead of the Olympics. Well, look, I think French decide
Speaker 5: if you look at these election results, look looks as
Speaker 5: polarized as almost anywhere else. And we're world I mean,
Speaker 5: if you classify Macron's party has left and there's a
Speaker 5: question about whether he is his voters or at least
Speaker 5: a left. He tries to present himself as a centrist party.
Speaker 5: But if you put them on the left, you add
Speaker 5: up the parties of the right, you get about fifty
Speaker 5: to fifty between in the French population, and that's pretty
Speaker 5: much where he is around the world. As you say
Speaker 5: or suggested there, it's just the left seemed better organized
Speaker 5: and were able to coordinate who was going to run
Speaker 5: in which department I think they call them in France,
Speaker 5: and that meant to through a first part yeah through Okay,
Speaker 5: thank you James for helping me out there, but they
Speaker 5: were the first part of the post system. With the
Speaker 5: Republicans still running against the right wing party, still running
Speaker 5: against the National Front.
Speaker 1: That destroyed their opportunity.
Speaker 5: You've seen that in different election results as well. You
Speaker 5: see it with the electoral College in the US, so
Speaker 5: it's not uncommon. Organization is very important. Logistics is important
Speaker 5: in politics just as much as getting the number of
Speaker 5: votes is.
Speaker 6: That's right, is absolutely critical. I actually think the left
Speaker 6: was aided by the media speculation that this was going
Speaker 6: to be a Mary Lupin victory. Yes, that forced them
Speaker 6: to get their act together in a way that I
Speaker 6: don't think they were necessarily capable of beforehand.
Speaker 2: Well, and I mean, it's going to be really interesting
Speaker 2: to watch these two very different when it comes down
Speaker 2: to the fundamentals. Parties try and work together in some
Speaker 2: sort of government. But look look at the left wing coalition.
Speaker 2: You know, it's the People's Front of Judea and the
Speaker 2: Judea's People's Front. You know, they all hate each other.
Speaker 2: You've got the Communists, the Greens, the Socialists on Marsh,
Speaker 2: you know, and then they will hate each other like viciously. God,
Speaker 2: it feels like they are strained parliament. But you know
Speaker 2: there's another issue too here say, which you want to
Speaker 2: dive into, which is you know, if you look at
Speaker 2: the Marine la penn program, in many ways they say,
Speaker 2: oh it's far right, oh it's fascist, But in many
Speaker 2: ways the economics are very left wing. It's big government spending,
Speaker 2: it's big pensions, which of course we know are the
Speaker 2: big things the French people really care about is you know,
Speaker 2: that big pension. But the thing that the only thing
Speaker 2: that really distinguishes them most of all is their stamps migration.
Speaker 2: And the big question I have is why is it
Speaker 2: that despite open borders being wildly unpopular with most normal people.
Speaker 2: In most countries, immigration people always say tap the brakes, right,
Speaker 2: anty immigrant, but we do not like this uncontrolled flood.
Speaker 2: The elite and the centrists seem to have this as
Speaker 2: an article of faith that if some immigration is good,
Speaker 2: more is better, and anybody who thinks otherwise is you know,
Speaker 2: to be frank. You know, they call them far right,
Speaker 2: they call them all right, they call them a Nazi.
Speaker 2: How come Look, I'm not sure that's entirely correct. Marie
Speaker 2: le Penn, over a very long political career twenty years
Speaker 2: or thirty years or something, has said some genuinely disturbing
Speaker 2: comments and has some genuinely disturbing views. And also, you know,
Speaker 2: we talk about fascists and communists in the Australian landscape
Speaker 2: like it's sort of student politics, right, Sure, when you're
Speaker 2: talking about it in Europe and France, you know, those
Speaker 2: ideas of fascism and communism have real historical context, and
Speaker 2: I don't think for twenty years until I don't know,
Speaker 2: six or seven years ago, Maria Lea Penn just did
Speaker 2: enough to distance herself from that, from that target, and
Speaker 2: she was happy to say, We're not happy to say
Speaker 2: that she was a fascist, but she certainly didn't run
Speaker 2: away from that tag as far and as fast as
Speaker 2: she should have. It just seems to strike me that
Speaker 2: all of these parties, you know, in the center and
Speaker 2: you know, set a left, set to right when you've
Speaker 2: got this issue of migration which seems to drive people
Speaker 2: to the far right, instead of saying, you know, well
Speaker 2: maybe we should do something about that and wind it back,
Speaker 2: then it's feminized people. I think that's pretty strange. We
Speaker 2: see the same thing happening in Australia.
Speaker 6: No, no, that's fair, and I think a lot of
Speaker 6: people that have those similar views when they start hearing
Speaker 6: people espousing those views of getting called racist, all of
Speaker 6: a sudden, they think, well, hold on, I'm not racists.
Speaker 6: You know, why are you saying that they're racist? If
Speaker 6: if that's me, No, No, I think they're There is
Speaker 6: some clearly some sense to a policy proposal, and Australia
Speaker 6: has some very tough bipartisan.
Speaker 2: Sure sure, sure, sure, But anyway, hey, let's move on
Speaker 2: because we've got more news here from here at home
Speaker 2: Alice Springs, where a snap three night curfew has been
Speaker 2: put in place following the alleged robbery of four off
Speaker 2: duty police officers, among other concerning stories, all alleged. Of course,
Speaker 2: here's what the NT Chief Minister, if a lawler had say, So.
Speaker 8: This curfew is about all of that, getting on top
Speaker 8: of the issues of crime, but also about returning people
Speaker 8: to country, returning people home to their own states as well.
Speaker 2: Matt Canavan, will this story, will these shocking tales out
Speaker 2: of the NT and Alice Springs get Prime Minister Anthony
Speaker 2: Albanisi onto the vip jet and to head out there
Speaker 2: and have a look at a talk people and see
Speaker 2: what's going on.
Speaker 5: Well, look, I don't know if it's that important for
Speaker 5: him to visit there. I do think it's important for
Speaker 5: the federal government to get more involved in this issue.
Speaker 5: It's obviously one that's not being controlled by the Northern
Speaker 5: Territory government. This has been going on now for years
Speaker 5: and there are outbreaks of violence and crime every few months.
Speaker 5: The Northern Territories are small jurisdiction and seems unable to
Speaker 5: tackle this on its own. And it's not right that
Speaker 5: Australians have their safety at threats as much as some
Speaker 5: would have in the war zone in this country, in
Speaker 5: the middle of this nation. So I think the federal
Speaker 5: I thought the federal government for a long time been
Speaker 5: saying this needs to get involved with the police, with
Speaker 5: austrain Federal Police, with possibly even army if necessary, if
Speaker 5: it's that bad, get them involved. And so another trip,
Speaker 5: another sightseeing visit for the Prime Minister is probably not
Speaker 5: that important, but actual boots on the ground, the assistances.
Speaker 5: And I think since the Voice has been running a
Speaker 5: million miles from Indigenous issues, which is very regrettable. Yeah,
Speaker 5: these train people have their say about the Voice, it's done.
Speaker 5: It needs to get over that and actually tackle the
Speaker 5: practical issues on the ground that face many Indigenous Australians
Speaker 5: and those other Australians who live near Indigenous communities.
Speaker 1: It has to be tackled.
Speaker 5: We have to have laura and order re established in
Speaker 5: Alice Springs. As I say that, all in territory government
Speaker 5: seems unable to do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does seem say like like, you know, since
Speaker 2: the Voice, Lever has been a bit m I A
Speaker 2: on this stuff, and to be fair of the national
Speaker 2: conversation has a bit am I on this stuff. But
Speaker 2: you know, Liverra's in power.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I think you need to undertake some
Speaker 6: deep policy work on these you sort of record spendings
Speaker 6: of housing for indigenous for the indigenous communities in the
Speaker 6: Northern Territory. I can't remember that was just before just
Speaker 6: after the voice. But you know, this, this curfew, I'm
Speaker 6: a little bit uncomfortable with it. I got to say,
Speaker 6: Alice Springs, is the size of almost comparable size of Paramount. Sure,
Speaker 6: and if there were half a dozen instances of crime,
Speaker 6: and absolutely vicious crime, and Matt's right, you need a
Speaker 6: greater interventionalist approach to stop that. No one here would
Speaker 6: be saying let's lock down Paramatta for three days now,
Speaker 6: maybe for twenty four hours to provide a circuit breaker. Maybe,
Speaker 6: But you know, I do genuinely worry at what point
Speaker 6: do we say as a government, Well, I think you're
Speaker 6: lock up and entire people like we saw during COVID.
Speaker 6: You know, let's just lock them up and yeah, crime
Speaker 6: will go to nothing.
Speaker 7: You'll see that.
Speaker 2: Sure, No, No, I get that, and we you know,
Speaker 2: we we do need to have a broader conversation beyond
Speaker 2: the stop gap solutions. You know, I get what we
Speaker 2: were saying. I'm gonna have to leave with the other.
Speaker 2: Sam Crosby, Matt Canavan Thank you so much for joining
Speaker 2: me tonight. Don't go anywhere because we have got another
Speaker 2: all star panel coming up after the break, including our
Speaker 2: Nick Cater and how the left again loves to call
Speaker 2: everything far right. Let's talk about that some more after
Speaker 2: the Welcome back to the program. James Morrow here filling
Speaker 2: in for Paul on Palmerray Live. Let's continue our debate
Speaker 2: and joining me now is child and adolescent psychologist Claire
Speaker 2: Row here in the studio and Nick Cater from the
Speaker 2: Menzies Research Center. But welcome to both of you. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Now, Nick, I want to start with
Speaker 2: you because you wrote a great piece in the Australian
Speaker 2: newspaper today titled spare us the far right Flannel It's
Speaker 2: nothing more than juvenile abuse, and you go on to
Speaker 2: criticize the recent demonization of anybody on the right, particularly
Speaker 2: in the wake of France's current election. Nick, this is
Speaker 2: juvenile abuse. What is this doing to our politics?
Speaker 9: Well, is going to black and white and black hats
Speaker 9: white hats, you know, good and bad. But this whole
Speaker 9: idea that the politics goes from the left to right,
Speaker 9: as you know, comes from the French National Assembly in
Speaker 9: the eighteenth century.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 7: It's an arcane idea.
Speaker 9: Politics doesn't fit in like that, but it suits the
Speaker 9: left if I can call them that, to keep on
Speaker 9: with this, because then they can say that anybody on
Speaker 9: the conservative side who's slightly more conservative than averagely.
Speaker 7: Conservative is on the hard right.
Speaker 9: And this is what they've been saying a cause ahead
Speaker 9: of the French elections yesterday, to try and scare people
Speaker 9: away from voting for Marine.
Speaker 7: La Penz party.
Speaker 9: They've been saying this is the first hard right government
Speaker 9: in France since the war. Give me a break, I mean,
Speaker 9: what is the RN got in common with the you know,
Speaker 9: the Fishi collaborationists who coz it up to the Nazis
Speaker 9: and deported ninety six thousand Jews.
Speaker 7: It's an absurd comparison.
Speaker 9: And in my piece this morning, as you know, I
Speaker 9: say they're actually talking about something else. What it is
Speaker 9: is that people like pen people like Victor Alban in Hungary,
Speaker 9: people like Milders in Holland, they just opposed this whole
Speaker 9: international project that the left is so keen on that
Speaker 9: all the decisions should be made at an international global level. No,
Speaker 9: they say they should be made at a local level,
Speaker 9: particularly on things like immigration. Of course, which is the
Speaker 9: big thing across Europe now. They want to decide who
Speaker 9: comes to their country and the circumstances under which they
Speaker 9: come quite simple.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean if you look at some of
Speaker 2: the anti semitism in the left side of politics in
Speaker 2: France right now, I think it's pretty shocking. And you know,
Speaker 2: you would certainly if you were a French Jewel right now,
Speaker 2: you'd probably be a lot more concerned about these results
Speaker 2: than if the so called fascist far right party got in.
Speaker 2: And I want to ask you, though, Claire as a psychologist.
Speaker 2: Sam Crosby was here before the break. He made the
Speaker 2: point that the media kind of probably drove a lot
Speaker 2: of the left vote because they scared people. But what
Speaker 2: is the effect of that kind of mass demonization of
Speaker 2: one side of politics that gives people this kind of
Speaker 2: shorthand to just write off a whole side of politics.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, I think, as Nick said, there's this tendency
Speaker 10: and movement towards our elections being run now on local
Speaker 10: national issues in the best interest of.
Speaker 11: National policies, on things.
Speaker 10: Like immigration or they run I think, yeah, okay, on
Speaker 10: global issues, but on ideologies, and once you're voting because
Speaker 10: you identify with an ideology of a party. It basically
Speaker 10: gives you a free right and permission to absolutely demonize
Speaker 10: the other side. It's this kind of notion that well,
Speaker 10: that's for the good of the collective that we have
Speaker 10: to do that.
Speaker 11: And yeah, I mean I do think of.
Speaker 10: Anyone who's right leaning, suddenly we add that kind of
Speaker 10: word far in front of it. Very few times are
Speaker 10: you describing someone I think is right. It's always far right,
Speaker 10: hard right, extreme right, And I think part of that
Speaker 10: is deliberate fear mongering. And then part of it, I
Speaker 10: think have they actually just lost touch with what far
Speaker 10: extreme right ease? Yeah, which is a complete as we know,
Speaker 10: you know, violent fascist dictatorship that somehow comes full circle
Speaker 10: to meet a left socialist dictatorship. But yeah, it's somehow
Speaker 10: like left aunt they're just described as lefties, sir.
Speaker 2: Well, well they're just described to manstream. I mean, you
Speaker 2: know how many times do you hear the Green subscribes
Speaker 2: as a far left party on the ABC?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And I think perhaps this is why people don't trust
Speaker 2: much of the media, because the same people who tell
Speaker 2: you that Joe Biden's okay also tell you that they're
Speaker 2: far right. But let's move on to another issue here
Speaker 2: which I know you, Claire are really passionate about. This
Speaker 2: is social media and the social media debate around kids.
Speaker 2: Opposite leader Peter Dutt has of course said they want
Speaker 2: to lift the minimum age to sixteen to get on
Speaker 2: these things if elected. But now there's reports that many
Speaker 2: teenagers are coming out and criticizing the proposed policy. They
Speaker 2: say that social media is actually key to their healthy
Speaker 2: development and well being and creates a place where they
Speaker 2: can sos with friends, express themselves and access support. I mean,
Speaker 2: to me, that was just you know, going over to
Speaker 2: base houses back in the day. But I don't know
Speaker 2: if we do that anymore. What do you think about this?
Speaker 2: So are they the kids say.
Speaker 11: Exactly exactly?
Speaker 10: So I think you know, I'm a big advocate for
Speaker 10: no social media and in fact no smartphones under sixteen.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 10: The reason being is not just what they're exposed to
Speaker 10: on social media, it's what they're not doing. So I've
Speaker 10: got kids that I see that are on their phones
Speaker 10: five six, seven, eight hours a day.
Speaker 2: So if you go back, you don't want to see
Speaker 2: what my spreed time alert looks like you're working.
Speaker 10: I mean, these are you know, these are fourteen thirteen
Speaker 10: year olds, and you know they're supposed to be in school,
Speaker 10: and then where do they find these eight hours? So
Speaker 10: in a previous generation, what were they doing in those
Speaker 10: eight hours that they're not doing?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 11: Sure they were at their maid's place.
Speaker 10: Of course, kids are going to say, well, that's where
Speaker 10: I socialize because that's.
Speaker 7: All they know.
Speaker 10: That's all they know that that's how they've they've been
Speaker 10: socializing on this platform. And it's like we're telling them
Speaker 10: we're going to take away socialization.
Speaker 11: We're not.
Speaker 10: We're going to hopefully wind it back to a play
Speaker 10: based childhood, which I think ends too early at twelve
Speaker 10: years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think you're right. I think you're right
Speaker 2: about that. But at the same time, Nick Cator is
Speaker 2: some of the stuff about these limitations to social media.
Speaker 2: I also worry that in trying to fix the problem
Speaker 2: with teenagers, you know, and young people, they could wind
Speaker 2: up creating things that will suppress free speech and the
Speaker 2: ability of people to just you know, speak out about
Speaker 2: issues like we saw during the pandemic and at other times.
Speaker 2: Nick Cator, where do you stand on this whole thing?
Speaker 2: Should there be a minimum age for teens. And are
Speaker 2: you worried that, as with the E Safety Commissioner, which
Speaker 2: started about out being about children, that we could wind
Speaker 2: up having more regulation of adults that we don't need.
Speaker 9: Well, that's the problem, and I believe strongly there should
Speaker 9: be proper age limits on kids accessing social media, just as.
Speaker 7: Driving cars or drinking alcohol. Right, there's no no issue
Speaker 7: with that.
Speaker 9: But of course what we've seen in Australia is they
Speaker 9: set up an e Safety Commissioner with the express purpose
Speaker 9: of keeping kids safe online and with it about five minutes,
Speaker 9: you know, the mission creep had said in sure and
Speaker 9: that there are all these proposal, are therefore to be
Speaker 9: the sensor of a misinformation disinformation?
Speaker 7: No, no, no, no, adults. Adults have to.
Speaker 9: Take responsibility for themselves. Always saying here is that the
Speaker 9: evidence is very clear, James, You've seen it. You know,
Speaker 9: Jonathan Height's book lays this out quite clearly, that there's
Speaker 9: a spike in youth suicide, you depression, youth anxiety from
Speaker 9: twenty twelve when smartphones came in, and correlation is not causation.
Speaker 9: But I've looked at this closely and I'm convinced that
Speaker 9: that is occurring. So we just have to say thirteen
Speaker 9: is too young for Apple or Google to give you
Speaker 9: their own a kid of their own account. You can
Speaker 9: sit on the family account until you're at a decent
Speaker 9: age sixteen or seventeen. It suits the big tech companies
Speaker 9: that stuck people in early. But that, I think is
Speaker 9: what Peter Dutton is saying. Essentially, It really is just saying,
Speaker 9: you know, some stuff's too dangerous for kids' minds to
Speaker 9: be taken in to take in on their own.
Speaker 2: No, I think that's absolutely right. I think as well
Speaker 2: said there now. But let's say it stay on the
Speaker 2: kids here just for a second, because also we've had
Speaker 2: queens over Stephen Miles hitting out at opposition leader David
Speaker 2: Christoph Fooley's announced bit about adult time for adult crime.
Speaker 2: Let's have a quick listen to this.
Speaker 12: The LMP's own police spokesperson says that they see crime
Speaker 12: as the way to win seats, that his job as
Speaker 12: their police spokesperson is to exploit crime to win seats,
Speaker 12: and that's all David Christopherhilly is doing here with another
Speaker 12: slick focus group's political.
Speaker 2: Slogan, Claire, you're the child development expert here, who do
Speaker 2: you come down on here.
Speaker 10: Well, I do think that there needs to be a
Speaker 10: relook at not necessarily change what we've already got, but
Speaker 10: the ability for magistrates to actually put in tougher sentences
Speaker 10: they have. We give magistrates a discretion of you know,
Speaker 10: minimum sentencing up to maximum sentencing. The issue is that
Speaker 10: it's not being currently used. And I know that child
Speaker 10: protection groups will say that, you know, early contact with
Speaker 10: the law, it's just going to increase the likelihood of reoffending.
Speaker 10: I'm talking for the ones that are chronic reoffenders already.
Speaker 10: It's not our first go to and I don't think
Speaker 10: that ten year old should be having life sentences. Of course,
Speaker 10: not that's not helping anyone. It's not keeping society safe.
Speaker 10: It's certainly not rehabilitating that kid. But when you've got
Speaker 10: teens that are constant reoffenders and all they get is
Speaker 10: a slap on the wrist and they walk out the
Speaker 10: next day and they're violent again, there's no repercussions there
Speaker 10: or deterrence.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, look, that's fair enough. Now, before I let you
Speaker 2: guys both go here, I want to talk about a
Speaker 2: story which I find fascinating because you know, I fly
Speaker 2: back and forth to New York a fair bit. And
Speaker 2: I know, Nick, I think eure overseas at the moment too.
Speaker 2: There's a new trend where people just sit there and
Speaker 2: watch the flight map. And I got to say this.
Speaker 2: I do this myself. It's called raw dogging a flight,
Speaker 2: Nick cater, I gotta say I'm a raw dogger. I
Speaker 2: just watched the flight map. I don't watch any movies.
Speaker 2: What do you think about this trend? Are you a
Speaker 2: movie guy? Or do you just watch the map?
Speaker 7: Look, I sort of get it, James.
Speaker 9: I mean, I love going on long flights because you're
Speaker 9: cut off, right, you don't you don't have to answer emails.
Speaker 9: I mean, I hate the fact they're bringing in Wi
Speaker 9: Fi onto planes.
Speaker 7: I'd rather they didn't. It is that time to switch off.
Speaker 7: And flight mats are fantastic, aren't they.
Speaker 9: I mean I flew in from city to hell Sinky
Speaker 9: and suddenly discovered I was coming in from the north, Like,
Speaker 9: how does that work? How do you arrive from the
Speaker 9: north the hell sinky? But yeah, I mean that's a
Speaker 9: bit of but yeah, I sawt of get it. But
Speaker 9: I couldn't sit there and do nothing. I must have
Speaker 9: been I do have to have something going on a
Speaker 9: book or usually a laptop working.
Speaker 2: Claire, I just did JFK to Tokyo to Sydney and
Speaker 2: I just stared at that map and it was so nice.
Speaker 2: Is this psychologically helpful? Healthy? Or am I just like
Speaker 2: completely crazy here? I know we don't see crazy anymore.
Speaker 10: Well, it is psychologically healthy, but it's you know, do
Speaker 10: what I say, not what I do, because that would
Speaker 10: drive me nas And if the baby's crying behind me
Speaker 10: and I've got someone talking to me, I need to
Speaker 10: put in the movie or the headphones or the music.
Speaker 11: But it is it is nice just to have a
Speaker 11: switch off, like Nick said.
Speaker 10: Of no stimulation, no one can get to you. I
Speaker 10: don't want to connect to the Wi Fi. But yeah,
Speaker 10: it is psychologically healthy. But if you're staring at that map,
Speaker 10: I reckon that it'd increase my anxiety.
Speaker 2: Indeed, I don't well fair enough, Look, I just like
Speaker 2: to watch the map. I like to know where I am.
Speaker 2: I like the speed, I like the direction. I love
Speaker 2: all of that stuff. Claro, Nick Cater, thank you so
Speaker 2: much for being on. Now stick with us because we've
Speaker 2: got a lot more to talk about coming up next.
Speaker 2: Find of the payment is the manifestation of identity politics
Speaker 2: in this country. So what does this mean for the
Speaker 2: future of Australia. Parnell Beginners joins us next. Welcome back
Speaker 2: to the program. James Mara here for Paul Murray Live Now.
Speaker 2: Last night I was talking about Fatima payment and the
Speaker 2: rise of sectarian politics and why it makes me so
Speaker 2: nervous to think that people would vote along religious lines.
Speaker 2: Paul McGinnis wrote a fantastic article with The City Morning
Speaker 2: Herald over the weekend talking about this precise issue, saying
Speaker 2: that Australia will lose if Payman's identity politics wins. And
Speaker 2: I am so glad to say she joins us here
Speaker 2: on this set tonight, Pardow. Let's talk about this issue
Speaker 2: of identity politics, religion and particularly Islam. Now. One of
Speaker 2: the things that you talk about in your peace is
Speaker 2: political Islam versus regular Islam and what this means in
Speaker 2: the body politic.
Speaker 13: Yeah, and that's really important to understand, I think, because
Speaker 13: I think a lot of people in Australia have only
Speaker 13: come across a non political ISTHM. So in the public
Speaker 13: sphere in Australia we see people like ed Husick and
Speaker 13: Ali whose practice of their religion is really non political.
Speaker 13: They put it within a framework of Australian values, in
Speaker 13: which case nobody has any objection to anybody holding a
Speaker 13: particular faith, the faith that they practice. But then there
Speaker 13: is another type of Islam which we see mainly manifesting
Speaker 13: in countries which are you know, unmentionably horrible sometimes you know,
Speaker 13: in countries which are water on, like serio sectarian countries
Speaker 13: like Afghanistan and so on. And this kind of political
Speaker 13: Islam tends to tends to be aiming towards establishing a caliphate. Now,
Speaker 13: I don't want to be alarmist about this in Australia.
Speaker 13: I think it's really important not to be alarmist because
Speaker 13: but we do have to be aware that there are
Speaker 13: these two trends of Islam. And when political Islam comes
Speaker 13: in contact identity politics, then we have to be especially
Speaker 13: aware that people are aligning themselves with a set of
Speaker 13: values that can be put above the liberal democratic values
Speaker 13: of Australia which are so important to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what strikespeare is really interesting in
Speaker 2: this whole debate here, and this whole discussion, is that
Speaker 2: you've got this weird situation where the Greens on the
Speaker 2: hard left are the first ones to scream about, you know,
Speaker 2: the Australian Christian lobby, or to say, you know, when
Speaker 2: Tony Abbott was Prime Minister, Oh, his Catholicism is influencing
Speaker 2: his government, or Scott Morrison's Pentecostalism and all of that,
Speaker 2: you know, very viciously. And yet they seem to be
Speaker 2: making common cause with people with a political religious program
Speaker 2: that's really retrograde.
Speaker 13: Well I'm not sure they know what they are making
Speaker 13: common cause with, because as you've seen, you know, there
Speaker 13: have been a lot of jokes made about.
Speaker 11: The Queers forgot.
Speaker 13: So there is a real question as to whether they
Speaker 13: understand the religion that they have aligned themselves with. When
Speaker 13: they when they argue for her Mask, when they claim
Speaker 13: that her Mass is actually just a freedom fighting organization.
Speaker 13: There is not really a great deal of understanding, a
Speaker 13: great depth of understanding of the religion or the organization,
Speaker 13: or the region the entire region of the Middle East
Speaker 13: in this. So that is the first part to start with.
Speaker 13: I mean, you'll see that ever since Fatima Payman left
Speaker 13: the Labor Party, the left has been claiming that everybody else,
Speaker 13: including the incredibly right wing, Sydney Morning.
Speaker 11: Herald has has been.
Speaker 13: Has been, has been islamophobic for criticizing Fatima Payman's actions, right,
Speaker 13: and they're doing that because there is a sort of
Speaker 13: knee jerk reaction in Australia still where to claim for
Speaker 13: those groups to claim that any analysis of a situation,
Speaker 13: or any any attempt to put and act into the
Speaker 13: broader context of a politics or a cultural movement that's
Speaker 13: happening worldwide can be seen if it affects a Muslim
Speaker 13: person as Islamic phobe.
Speaker 2: But it is just because then you know, the City
Speaker 2: Morning Herald, people on the sort of the general left
Speaker 2: as well, you know, the ABC, all these sorts of people.
Speaker 2: When they look at Islam, they see something exotic and
Speaker 2: different versus you know, and that's why they treat that
Speaker 2: differently and want to protect it versus something that they
Speaker 2: see as mainstream, like Christianity, like something that.
Speaker 13: They don't understand and haven't come into contact with. And
Speaker 13: you know, look, I mean I would not want to
Speaker 13: trash Islam wholesale. Look, Islam obviously had a wonderful renaissance
Speaker 13: and we and we have it to thank for many
Speaker 13: of the early scientific innovations that humans have based much
Speaker 13: of our cultural learning on the mathematics and so on. However,
Speaker 13: in the modern world it is not that force of
Speaker 13: and when you.
Speaker 2: See it in places like you know, Germany, for example,
Speaker 2: it becomes quite retrograde.
Speaker 13: Right, and you know that is precisely the thing. It
Speaker 13: has become a sort of retrograde is exactly the right word.
Speaker 13: Retrogregade action against a sense that that the Islamic world
Speaker 13: is threatened by the West. Now, the West doesn't feel
Speaker 13: generally as threatened by the Islamic world, but there is
Speaker 13: this sort of sense of a clash of cultures which
Speaker 13: tends to be felt more in the Middle East. Indeed,
Speaker 13: we're acting on that in Germany or in western countries.
Speaker 2: Part now we're going to have to leave there. Parnal Beginnis.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, brilliant piece and seeing morning Harold
Speaker 2: check her out every Saturday or every Sunday. Sorry, thank
Speaker 2: you so much. Now that's it for me tonight. Stay
Speaker 2: tuned for the late debate. I'll be back tomorrow night
Speaker 2: and the rest of this week and next week. Have
Speaker 2: a great night.