Speaker 1: When we heard news that Barnaby Joyce was quitting the
Speaker 1: Nationals with a rumored moved to one nation on the
Speaker 1: cards when you would cover it with our friend in Canberra,
Speaker 1: Amy Remikis. But the more we talked about it, there
Speaker 1: was someone else who needed to hear from.
Speaker 2: Two Tony Winsor speaking Hello.
Speaker 1: Tony Daniel James from seven Am. Barnaby's old sparring partner
Speaker 1: and the former Member for New England. Tony Windsor was
Speaker 1: loading cattle when we called and he said a move
Speaker 1: to one nation would make perfect sense.
Speaker 2: Very pleased for him. That is finally found Israel home.
Speaker 2: You know, the sort of old western Queensland Emperor Marva
Speaker 2: will suit him with one nation. I think, I think
Speaker 2: why Barnaby Joyce a going to have difficulty is explaining
Speaker 2: why he's doing it. Traditionally he hasn't been a racist,
Speaker 2: and the very existent of one nation is about racism
Speaker 2: and the condemnation of the various religious groups, et cetera.
Speaker 2: You find someone to pick on and blame them for
Speaker 2: all the problems. I just get.
Speaker 1: Joyce's decision to quit the Nationals comes after months of
Speaker 1: speculation and very public declarations of admiration from Pauling Hanson
Speaker 1: in the media, all culminating with a waggy steak cooked
Speaker 1: on a sandwich press earlier this week, Tony windsor, when
Speaker 1: was the last time someone cooked you a prime cut
Speaker 1: of wag you at Parliament House?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't get over the two years wag steak
Speaker 2: was absolutely classic. And Joyce historically has always said that
Speaker 2: he was there to represent the people in the weatherboard
Speaker 2: and iron, you know they're not so well off, or
Speaker 2: the poor, and Hanson of course to represent those in
Speaker 2: the political process that bypassed and anybody that hates anything
Speaker 2: they could find a place to dwell there. And here
Speaker 2: they are eating the most expensive place of meat that
Speaker 2: you can buy in her office. I couldn't get over
Speaker 2: the graphics of all of that.
Speaker 1: If Joyce Lee flailing nationals for an ascended one nation,
Speaker 1: is he training another shot at power for a dose
Speaker 1: of publicity or will it be part of a new
Speaker 1: conservative force that will reshape the country. I'm Daniel James
Speaker 1: and you're listening to seven AM today. Contributing editor for
Speaker 1: The New Daily Amory Meekers on the ramifications of Barnaby
Speaker 1: bailing on the Nationals. It's Friday, November twenty eight.
Speaker 3: So after thirty years with the National Party, I am
Speaker 3: resigning from the party. That really leads me with a
Speaker 3: heavy heart, and I apologize for all the hurt that
Speaker 3: that will cause other people. I really do.
Speaker 1: Amy, thanks for joining me. We've known this was coming.
Speaker 1: But can you lay out for us what reasons Barnaby
Speaker 1: Joyce gave for his defection.
Speaker 4: He didn't really give a lot of concrete reasons. It's
Speaker 4: really just a vibes because Barnaby Joyce has got everything
Speaker 4: that he has wanted from the National Party and from
Speaker 4: the Coalition more broadly. His main argument when he kicked
Speaker 4: all of this off about five weeks ago was that
Speaker 4: he really really wanted them to scrap net zero. The
Speaker 4: reason it.
Speaker 3: Is incredibly bad is because what it is doing to
Speaker 3: our nation, the industrializing our nation, putting the poor into poverty,
Speaker 3: putting them out of their house, destroying farmland.
Speaker 4: They have done that, not just the Nationals but also
Speaker 4: the Liberal Party. And then it just became more of oh, well,
Speaker 4: he thinks they're not going far enough to fight for
Speaker 4: regional people. But he can't really give many concrete examples
Speaker 4: of what that means, because a lot of the retoric
Speaker 4: that we have heard from the coalition over the last
Speaker 4: couple of months has come straight from Barnaby's mouth. So
Speaker 4: really this came down to the fact that Barnaby was
Speaker 4: feeling slighted, that Barnaby Joyce felt like his ascendancy to
Speaker 4: the National Party leadership was completely cut off and over
Speaker 4: which it is. So in the end he just basically
Speaker 4: had a tantrum and quit.
Speaker 1: And if we look at his legacy with the Nationals,
Speaker 1: the decision by then to scrap net zero had Joyce's
Speaker 1: fingerprints all over it. Would that have happened without him?
Speaker 4: No, it wouldn't have happened without him. But I think
Speaker 4: actual responsibility and the actual dirty fingerprints here belonged to
Speaker 4: the Labor Party. Labor actually kind of set this all
Speaker 4: in train when they decided to put up Barnaby Joyce's
Speaker 4: Private Member's Bill to scrap net zero up for debate,
Speaker 4: which is something that they did every single week that
Speaker 4: Parliament sat.
Speaker 3: I present the Repeal Net zero Bill twenty twenty five
Speaker 3: and explanatory memorandum. I move that this bill being now read.
Speaker 4: It was with the intent of causing as much internal
Speaker 4: rock within the Liberal Party and the Coalition more broadly
Speaker 4: as possible. They wanted to have as many Coalition MPs
Speaker 4: as they could have the opportunity to stand up there
Speaker 4: and talk about why they did not agree with the
Speaker 4: coalition's policy as well.
Speaker 5: I always stand by the comments of the Prime Minister.
Speaker 5: I like some of those opposite, I care never to
Speaker 5: stand by the commitments of their leader. I mean, yesterday
Speaker 5: we had the advising example of the Coalition running out
Speaker 5: of the chamber so they didn't have to vote differently
Speaker 5: on the net zero.
Speaker 4: No labor wanted this, They fostered it. They gave everybody
Speaker 4: the opportunity to create this situation, and Barnaby Joyce took
Speaker 4: a lot of glee in that. So he basically did
Speaker 4: what he does, which is wrecked the place, but also
Speaker 4: try and claim that he's doing it for the sake
Speaker 4: of people. This is just the people speaking, and everybody
Speaker 4: who speaks like mind within the coalition joined him. It
Speaker 4: became an untenable situation for Susan Lee to try and
Speaker 4: pretend that there wasn't a split. To save her leadership
Speaker 4: for a few more months at least, she agreed to
Speaker 4: allow the vote, and here we are.
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Amy Joyce is nothing if not while
Speaker 1: and he's seen the riding on the wall, especially with
Speaker 1: the Nationals calling for generational change within the Parliamentary party.
Speaker 1: So do you think they will be celebrating his departure.
Speaker 4: I've spoken to quite a few Nationals MPs and they're
Speaker 4: in two minds about it. There is the point of
Speaker 4: view that maybe the party room becomes a little bit
Speaker 4: more settled now that David Little Proud isn't being directly
Speaker 4: challenged by Barnaby Joyce. But there are still people like
Speaker 4: Matt Canavan who are in the Nationals party who were
Speaker 4: very much in the Barnaby Joyce mold of Nationals politicians
Speaker 4: who are going to continue that line of pushback.
Speaker 6: I suppose so support fine zero's dropping off a cliff.
Speaker 6: I mean, there was a poll this couple of weeks
Speaker 6: ago show that net zero and has net zero support.
Speaker 6: It's a big turnaround in just a few months, and
Speaker 6: I think Barnaby's played a big role in that and
Speaker 6: pointing out the fact that this net zero promise we're
Speaker 6: made is not delivering. It's just not working for the
Speaker 6: Australian people because they've seen there are.
Speaker 4: Others who feel that Barnaby Joyce is going to cause
Speaker 4: more problems for the Nationals outside of the party because
Speaker 4: he has no rains anymore. He can say whatever he
Speaker 4: wants and in doing so drag the Nationals further to
Speaker 4: the right or further to his position, just by sucking
Speaker 4: up that oxygen and saying why are they not doing this?
Speaker 4: But then there are others who were just kind of like,
Speaker 4: see you later. This has been an absolute mess. The
Speaker 4: Nationals are losing relevancy in their communities, they are losing members,
Speaker 4: and Barnaby Joyce is a big reason for that. So
Speaker 4: they're hoping that maybe they get a bit of a
Speaker 4: fresh start. But I think looking at the situation, that
Speaker 4: might be a bit of a naive hopeful view because
Speaker 4: the Nationals don't seem to be unhooking themselves from Barnaby's positions,
Speaker 4: despite the fact that he's no longer in the party.
Speaker 1: Coming up, If Hanson's and Joyce's powers are combined, how
Speaker 1: potent the force could one nation become. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: talk about Barnaby Joyce's values and his record. If you
Speaker 1: look at how he spent his political energy, what are
Speaker 1: the issues he really cares about and where does he
Speaker 1: naturally belong the issues.
Speaker 4: That Barnaby Joyce really cares about is Barnaby Joyce. There's
Speaker 4: no real giant philosophy to Barnaby Joyce's political decisions. He
Speaker 4: has been against marriage equality, you know, for the sanctity
Speaker 4: of marriage, despite what he was doing to his own marriage.
Speaker 4: He has been against privatization and then he's voted for it.
Speaker 4: He has been for farmers' rights, but then he's put
Speaker 4: mining ahead of that. He has been for investment, but
Speaker 4: now he's against net zero. Barnaby Joyce doesn't really have
Speaker 4: a position, but he does have excellent rhetoric. He's an
Speaker 4: accountant who has donned in a kubra and convinced everybody
Speaker 4: that he is a farmer. And he does a really
Speaker 4: good job of talking to people as if he is
Speaker 4: salt of the earth, the weatherboard and iron. That he's
Speaker 4: only ever talking about regional people and that he understands them,
Speaker 4: but he only reflects the views of the people who
Speaker 4: agree with him. So Barnaby represents Barnaby and in that case,
Speaker 4: I mean one Nation is probably an okay fit, especially
Speaker 4: if Pauline Hansen does retire, you know, she is not
Speaker 4: exactly young, she's tired, she doesn't come to a lot
Speaker 4: of the parliamentary sittings, and she's enjoying sort of a
Speaker 4: second career as a conservative darling, speaking at Mara Lago
Speaker 4: and Seapac conferences around the world. So he would enjoy
Speaker 4: one nation if he could lead it. But Barnaby Joyce
Speaker 4: has always had other people around him who were competent
Speaker 4: enough to clean up the messes, to keep all of
Speaker 4: the other responsibilities of running a party going. He's not
Speaker 4: going to have that in one nation. So it will
Speaker 4: be interesting to see if Barnaby Joyce can remain Barnaby
Speaker 4: Joyce if he does end up defecting to one nation
Speaker 4: as expected, or even if he maintains enough relevancy as
Speaker 4: an independent.
Speaker 1: I mean, let's talk about Barnaby whether he can be
Speaker 1: Barnaby with one nation.
Speaker 4: Do we want him to be Barnaby?
Speaker 1: It's a fair question that the same day he shared
Speaker 1: that now famous steak dinner with Pauline Hanson, Hanson had
Speaker 1: just been sanctioned for wearing a burker in the Senate.
Speaker 1: Do you think Barnaby Joyce shares those kind of values.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if they are values. I mean,
Speaker 4: is Barnaby Joyce islamophobic? I don't actually think he's thought
Speaker 4: about it. I think he looks at things purely on
Speaker 4: the politics, and he would have rationalized that as a
Speaker 4: stunt that Pauline Hanson has to do to invigorate her base.
Speaker 4: Would Barnaby Joyce do something similar? I don't think so.
Speaker 4: He usually sticks his knives into his colleagues rather into
Speaker 4: marginalized communities, but that doesn't mean that he's not going
Speaker 4: to excuse it. So if he does end up joining
Speaker 4: one nation, or indeed it just cozies up to them
Speaker 4: and Pauline Hanson continues doing these sorts of stunts, he
Speaker 4: would just rationalize them. He certainly wouldn't stand against it.
Speaker 1: Now. I think I'm stating the obvious here, Amy, But
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson and Barnaby Joiss are two very big characters.
Speaker 1: Let's look into the future. How do you think they
Speaker 1: would actually go working together?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean they did manage to cook a way
Speaker 4: goos steak on a sandwich press, so obviously they're a
Speaker 4: match made in heaven. I mean, my favorite thing about
Speaker 4: that photo op for anyone who hasn't seen it, is
Speaker 4: that they made sure to put the sax Assault, like
Speaker 4: the biggest sax Assault container you have ever seen, front
Speaker 4: and center.
Speaker 1: In the the tables everywhere.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, And both of them are very good at
Speaker 4: the visuals, very good at saying we are just like you.
Speaker 4: They are both very wealthy people who are very influential,
Speaker 4: who rub shoulders with some of the most wealthy and
Speaker 4: elite people in Australia, and both have convinced a large
Speaker 4: section of the Australian public that they are just every
Speaker 4: day lower middle class salt of the Earth battlers and
Speaker 4: so in that, you know, they share a lot of
Speaker 4: political I suppose, skill and cunning. Pauline Hanson, though, does
Speaker 4: not have a good track record of working with other
Speaker 4: big personalities, Mark Latham being the most recent example of that.
Speaker 4: Barnaby Joyce has never been comfortable as sharing the spotlight.
Speaker 4: And while they both at the moment are enjoying the
Speaker 4: the trouble that they're causing for the wider political scene,
Speaker 4: actually working together that is going to be something that
Speaker 4: I think they both struggle with.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's easy to pass this off
Speaker 1: as another Barnaby moment, but it is actually a huge step.
Speaker 1: This is a man who was once Deputy Prime Minister
Speaker 1: as a member of the National He's been part of
Speaker 1: governing the Coalition for many years he's been in power.
Speaker 1: So is he ultimately giving up any ability to influence
Speaker 1: policy now?
Speaker 4: I don't think he's giving up any ability to influence
Speaker 4: policy because the Nationals have been influenced by One Nation
Speaker 4: for about thirty years now. It's one of the reasons
Speaker 4: the Coalition as a whole has shifted further to the right,
Speaker 4: because the Nationals have had to shift further to the
Speaker 4: right to fight off one Nation. But he is, Barnaby
Speaker 4: Joyce is giving up any chance of a legacy, and
Speaker 4: by that I mean any chance of a legacy that
Speaker 4: seems sent and impactful because one Nation does stunts. One
Speaker 4: Nation has not been a mainstream party for the thirty
Speaker 4: or so years it has been in Australian politics. A
Speaker 4: lot of Barnaby's power has come from being in the mainstream.
Speaker 4: A lot of his regular TV spots, which is what
Speaker 4: has seen him elevated into the position that he is
Speaker 4: culturally in our politics, has been because he is part
Speaker 4: of a mainstream party. He's probably won't see the same
Speaker 4: amount of attention paid to him. Now that he's sitting
Speaker 4: outside the tent, he'll be brought in from time to
Speaker 4: time whenever they need, you know, a dose of Barnaby
Speaker 4: to liven things up. But that's the same way that
Speaker 4: we see Pauline Hansen used, so he may have actually
Speaker 4: dealt himself out of some of that relevancy.
Speaker 1: And finally, Amy, you know, we know One Nation is
Speaker 1: already shaping up as a political force individual politics. But
Speaker 1: how much bigger could they become if Joyce actually ends
Speaker 1: up joining them? Is there a chance for growth?
Speaker 4: I'm not sure that Joyce would appeal to any more
Speaker 4: people who are currently not already attracted to One Nation,
Speaker 4: so I don't think you're going to see too much
Speaker 4: change there. Barnaby Joyce was held back from traveling in
Speaker 4: the last election, and that is because Barnaby Joyce outside
Speaker 4: of some of those core electorates. You know, we're talking
Speaker 4: like Hinkler in Queensland, his own of New England, you know,
Speaker 4: some in the mid North coast, that sort of area.
Speaker 4: Outside of those electorates, here's a net negative. He was
Speaker 4: seen as bringing down the vote. He does not appeal
Speaker 4: to women, he does not appeal to younger voters. He
Speaker 4: does not appeal to anyone who believes in renewable energy
Speaker 4: as a transition source. There's a lot of negatives that
Speaker 4: come with Barnaby Joyce. So I think that under Pauline
Speaker 4: Hanson we'll see one Nation continue to hold that kind
Speaker 4: of high watermark. But we're also two years out from
Speaker 4: the next election. For Labor, year two of a parliament
Speaker 4: cycle is usually where they do a lot of their action.
Speaker 4: They just got through the environmental laws. They're starting to
Speaker 4: ride a little bit higher in the polls themselves, and
Speaker 4: Anthony Albanzi is certainly doing much better against Susan Lee
Speaker 4: as preferred prime minister. There's a lot of time for
Speaker 4: Barnaby Joyce to tank and so there's a lot of
Speaker 4: time for one Nation to tank with him.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get the popcorn out and see what happens. Amy,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4: We all enjoy a little treat at the end of
Speaker 4: a long parliamentary year.
Speaker 1: Also in the news, Labor has passed its environmental laws
Speaker 1: with support from the Greens. The Green secured some amendments
Speaker 1: and return for their support, having high risk land clearing,
Speaker 1: original forest agreements added to federal laws rather than being
Speaker 1: handled by the states. Colon gas projects will also need
Speaker 1: federal approval for water use and won't be able to
Speaker 1: be fast tracked. We'll have a full report on the
Speaker 1: new laws tomorrow and Australia is not projected to meet
Speaker 1: as twenty thirty Climate Target or as twenty thirty five
Speaker 1: Climate Target climate change when is to Chris Bowen delivered
Speaker 1: the news in his annual Climate Statement to Parliament, but
Speaker 1: defended the government, saying it's normal for there to be
Speaker 1: a gap between targets and emissions and that new policies
Speaker 1: will be implemented to improve the result. Australia recently committed
Speaker 1: to cad emissions by between sixty two and seventy percent
Speaker 1: by twenty thirty five. The outlook projects emissions were likely
Speaker 1: for by just forty eight percent. I'm Daniel James. This
Speaker 1: is seven am. See you tomorrow.