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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Pit Talk, brought to you by Shannon's.

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Speaker 1: On today's episode, Oscar Piastre is the new championship leader

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Speaker 1: after winning the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, and Max Mstaffen

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Speaker 1: rails against the penalty that cost him a shot at

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Speaker 1: victory after cutting the first chicune. My name is Michael Lamonado.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have your company, and the company of

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Speaker 1: my co host. His body clock is about as cooked

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Speaker 1: as Christian Horner's photographic attempt to exonerate Max with Staffan,

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Speaker 1: It's Matt Mayton.

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Speaker 2: Michael, it's good to join you as always, But if

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Speaker 2: I don't like how this podcast goes, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: produce a series of photographs, bring them to our next meeting,

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Speaker 2: and then explain to you why you were wrong and

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Speaker 2: I was right. And maybe I'll call in a reserve

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Speaker 2: driver to do a reenactment of my Grievances Alex album,

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Speaker 2: which is still one of my favorite f on stories.

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Speaker 2: But great to join you, and we were discussing this

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Speaker 2: off air before. What are we going to do with

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Speaker 2: ourselves on a Sunday where there's no Formula one on

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Speaker 2: this weekend because there haven't been many of them.

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Speaker 1: No, probably spend time with loved ones or something lame like,

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Speaker 1: because what do you do without formula on?

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Speaker 3: Now?

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Speaker 1: I'm very much looking forward to the weekend off. I

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Speaker 1: know that's not always popular opinion, but after the last

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Speaker 1: two time zones we've had, I'm really pumped for no

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Speaker 1: formula on this weekend. But you won't have to wait

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Speaker 1: long for it to come back around. Miami is only well,

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Speaker 1: if you really want to count down, it's probably only

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Speaker 1: about ten days away.

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Speaker 2: And not a bad time though, Miami, I've got to say,

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Speaker 2: because it scus nicely with the clock for us, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm a big fan of breakfast Grand Prix for

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Speaker 1: people who follow me here and elsewhere, and this very

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Speaker 1: much falls into that category. Six am. I think it

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Speaker 1: is maybe even o'clock anyway, that's probably next week.

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Speaker 3: It should be more of it, Yes, should be more

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Speaker 3: of it.

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Speaker 1: Really great if you're in New Zealand. Two just by,

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Speaker 1: just by the bye. But let's look at the Saudi

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Speaker 1: Arabian Grand Prix. Momentous moment for Australian motorsport because we

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Speaker 1: have an Australian back at the top of the Formula

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Speaker 1: One World Drivers championship standings for the first time in

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Speaker 1: fifteen years. It's Oscar Piastre. After getting so close in Bahrain,

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Speaker 1: he did the deal in Saudi Arabia, starting second on

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Speaker 1: the grid, beating Max Forstappen to victory. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: hold that Max Verstappen, first lap, first pass, and the

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Speaker 1: photographic attempt at to defend a little bit later on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, but I want to stick with the McLaren

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Speaker 1: and Piastre side of things here. It struck me, Matt,

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Speaker 1: that this was another very It was another Piastre performance,

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Speaker 1: wasn't it fundamentally very cool, calm and collected, Nothing too

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Speaker 1: exciting to quicken the heart rate. Nothing to out of

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Speaker 1: the ordinary or outlandish about this good move into the

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Speaker 1: first turn or a really great start really is what

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Speaker 1: fundamentally was. But this didn't actually feel like the absolute

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Speaker 1: comprehensive weekend it was and let's say China or even Bahrain.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it fell to me actually right up until

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Speaker 1: Q three when Lando Norris crashed and we will talk

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Speaker 1: about him in a moment. It was quite possibly the

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Speaker 1: second to quickest or the slowest McLaren driver this weekend.

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Speaker 1: Yet he's still walked away with the victory. How Signimian

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Speaker 1: do you think this result is quite aside from that

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Speaker 1: championship lead, but in the context of this maybe not

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Speaker 1: actually being one of the great Piastre weekend.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it was good in that he won

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Speaker 2: a race in a different way. And you look at

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Speaker 2: the way he's won races over the course of his

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Speaker 2: Formula One career, it's often been from a position of

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Speaker 2: dominance that he's built on through Friday and Saturday into Sunday.

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Speaker 2: This wasn't one of those weekends. As you mentioned, Norris

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Speaker 2: looked to me that the quicker McClaren up until it

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Speaker 2: really mattered in Q three for stapp and took poll.

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Speaker 2: This wasn't one of those sailing serenely to victory displays

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Speaker 2: by him that we had seen that in Bahrain just

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Speaker 2: seven days before that. So I think the one thing

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Speaker 2: we are starting to notice with Oscar is that if

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Speaker 2: there is a door that's prized open, even a crack,

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Speaker 2: he's going straight through it and there's no apologies and

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Speaker 2: he's not going to hold back. So I think he's

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Speaker 2: become a driver that he will really make others pay

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Speaker 2: for their mistakes or their transgressions. You can't give this

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Speaker 2: guy sniff because if he gets his nose in front,

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Speaker 2: we know that it's very coolly executed from there. And

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Speaker 2: you mentioned before that it wasn't an absolute thriller minute

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Speaker 2: ride of a Grand Prix. These are the sorts of

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Speaker 2: races he wins. We've seen that in the past, but

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Speaker 2: it was how he got to that position to me,

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Speaker 2: that was different and it bodes well because it shows

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Speaker 2: that there's more sort of arrows in the quiver if

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Speaker 2: you like to win these races. And I mean not

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Speaker 2: two race wins in seven days and you know we're

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Speaker 2: already looking at this. Yes, he's in the lead of

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Speaker 2: the World Championship. First Australian to win back to back

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Speaker 2: Grand Prix in eleven years. I had to go digging

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Speaker 2: through the record books for that since Daniel Ricardo do

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Speaker 2: that in twenty fourteen. It feels very sustainable. But it's

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Speaker 2: good to know that he can win races different ways because,

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Speaker 2: as you said, until that last part of Q three,

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Speaker 2: it looked like maybe this is a podium weekend, but

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Speaker 2: then it became something a lot better.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, best run of form. I really tried to go

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Speaker 1: back in the Stat's book for this one by an

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Speaker 1: Australian since Alan Jones in nineteen eighty to eighty one,

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Speaker 1: who was the last Australian to have three wins and

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Speaker 1: a podium in that combination. Because it's three wins and

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Speaker 1: a third from the last four races for Oscopias, I

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Speaker 1: can forget about the result of the Australian Grand Prix

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Speaker 1: because it didn't happen. It was a ninth place where

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Speaker 1: I was playing along at home. And that's the interesting

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Speaker 1: equation for me, is that up until until this weekend, really,

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Speaker 1: if we're trying to look at pastre season as a whole,

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Speaker 1: admittedly still so early on in the campaign that phrase,

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Speaker 1: you know, winning your titles on your worst days, that

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Speaker 1: ninth place was kind of hanging over him a little bit.

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Speaker 1: There are circumstances about that. That wasn't a meritorious ninth. There

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Speaker 1: was him spinning off the road and sort of copying

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Speaker 1: the bad deal, getting stuck in the grass, whereas Norris

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Speaker 1: was able to slither back onto the road and rejoin.

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Speaker 1: But nonetheless that was the result that was kind of

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Speaker 1: weighing him down. This was in inverted commas, his bad

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Speaker 1: day and still emerged with a victory, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's what's really heartening about this. He'll have worse days,

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Speaker 1: presumably in which victory won't be possible, because he can't

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Speaker 1: be just performing an absolutely race winning form every weekend

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Speaker 1: when it does feel quite close at the front, if

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Speaker 1: not just with Lando Norris, but from at least some

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Speaker 1: race weekends red Bull Racing as well. But yeah, the

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Speaker 1: fact that the performance was still strong despite maybe not

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Speaker 1: everything being aligned that I think was really promising here

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Speaker 1: for him, And you can contrast that directly with Lando Norris.

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Speaker 1: Not everything was perfectly aligned for him, although it was

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Speaker 1: pretty close and wasn't able to pull out the results.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at that qualifying crash now for Lander, because

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Speaker 1: that really twisted this weekend in a different direction and direction.

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Speaker 1: They don't think we were anticipating it felt like it

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Speaker 1: was always a chance of happening, wasn't it. After the

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Speaker 1: way he talked in Bahrain, we were so down in

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Speaker 1: himself where he had a genuinely bad weekend there did

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Speaker 1: manage to get unto the podium. He wasn't as disappointed

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Speaker 1: after this crash. He felt like he'd sort of turned

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Speaker 1: things around. But these back to back and not big results,

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Speaker 1: losing the championship lead. I mean, that's now forming an

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Speaker 1: integral part of this narrative, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's forming a pattern. I think it's what it's forming.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, once you could say, is you

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Speaker 2: know it's a one off. Now it's either a coincidence

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Speaker 2: or the beginning of a trend with him here. And

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Speaker 2: I noticed the way he handled this one as well,

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Speaker 2: relative to seven days previous. And I wonder, if you know,

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Speaker 2: with a little bit of clarity and hindsight, whether he

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Speaker 2: looked at the way he reacted so publicly to the

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Speaker 2: Bahrain disappointment thought or maybe I need to pull this

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Speaker 2: back a little bit. And you know, you and I

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Speaker 2: had spoken on this podcast last week about the race

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Speaker 2: being played between the years is between the white lines,

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Speaker 2: and psychologically he might have prized open a little area

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Speaker 2: of vulnerability there for Piastre to capitalize upon. So I

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Speaker 2: do wondering how much of that response on Saturday night,

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Speaker 2: Sunday morning, whenever it was in Saudi, when you crash,

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Speaker 2: whatever time Australian time it was, how much of that

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Speaker 2: was tempering how he really felt. But this circuit, because

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Speaker 2: it is so extreme. It's a place where small mistakes

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Speaker 2: have very, very big consequences. Like Suzuka is a similar track.

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Speaker 2: You wouldn't necessarily put Saudi in Zuzuka in the same breath,

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Speaker 2: but because Saudi is so new, But this is a

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Speaker 2: place where one momentary lapse of judgment or an error

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Speaker 2: can completely define your entire weekend. It was a relatively

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Speaker 2: clean race weekend for big shunts, which always surprises me

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Speaker 2: with Saudi because when I look at this track, you

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Speaker 2: do feel like you're watching it with your fingers in

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Speaker 2: front of your eyes a lot at the time because

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Speaker 2: it is so high speed in all those blind corners.

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Speaker 2: But it defined the weekend. But the question I thought

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Speaker 2: for you was that, you know, we see that Piastre's

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Speaker 2: in the lead now and is the better of the

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Speaker 2: two McLaren drivers. I'm wondering if it's kind of been

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Speaker 2: this way all along, and that Australia ninth place and

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Speaker 2: just those two points that he had there really distorted

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Speaker 2: the championship picture of perhaps the gap between these two drivers,

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Speaker 2: because you know, small stakes, big consequences. That was very

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Speaker 2: different because of the rain belting down in the final

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Speaker 2: sector at Albert Park, and turned it into a bit

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Speaker 2: of a lottery. It feels like it's taken Piastre four

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Speaker 2: races to get back to probably where he should have

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Speaker 2: been after Australia. But on the whole he has probably

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Speaker 2: made fewer mistakes and looks like the most polished of

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Speaker 2: the McLaren drivers. It's just taken us to round five

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Speaker 2: for him to be where he could have been a

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Speaker 2: couple of rounds earlier.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a good call, and you can

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Speaker 1: also see that in the obviously the raw points picture,

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Speaker 1: but when you consider how far behind he was in Australia,

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Speaker 1: it's been a thirty three point turnaround the Ansonia since then,

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Speaker 1: and that includes races in which he was behind Norris.

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Speaker 1: Obviously in Japan he lost points to Niros, but the

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Speaker 1: swing has still been strong enough to move him ahead

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Speaker 1: in just four race weekends. That's about eight point something

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Speaker 1: points a weekend, which is more than the differences been

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Speaker 1: first and second, which is interesting when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: still McLaren being just the fastest card. I haven't always

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Speaker 1: got the one two results a bit of a moot point,

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Speaker 1: but nonetheless it's been pretty much one way traffic in

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Speaker 1: Oscar's favor and yeah, I think to come back to

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Speaker 1: your point, it does feel like it's becoming a trend.

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Speaker 1: Whether Norris cracking is the trend or simply being overpowered

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Speaker 1: by Piastre is sort of the dominant trend. And then

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Speaker 1: that's just showing up in some mistakes or some Norris

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Speaker 1: mistakes are being shown up more vividly as a result

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Speaker 1: of that is something we'll learn over subsequent rounds. But

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Speaker 1: I thought, and it's an interesting point you made, sort

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Speaker 1: of has Norris exposed a little bit too much of himself?

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Speaker 1: I think that's going to be an ongoing question over

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Speaker 1: this year because if we don't see more of that,

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Speaker 1: I think that will be an obvious change of attitude

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Speaker 1: from him, because that has been the way he's gone

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Speaker 1: about his business psychologically for as long as he's been

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Speaker 1: in the sport. Really, if suddenly he closes up that,

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Speaker 1: you will have to conclude that is a conscious decision.

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Speaker 1: You're speaking to Dutch media. I think who asked him

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Speaker 1: after the Saudi Arabian Grand Prix if we be participating in.

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Speaker 1: I think he's at the Dutch National Day, King's Day

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Speaker 1: or something like that in the next week. If you

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Speaker 1: cast your minds back at twelve months, there was footage

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Speaker 1: of him on social media partying on some boat a

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Speaker 1: few days before the Miami Grand Prix, injured his nose.

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Speaker 1: He turned up with a bandage. He did win that race,

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Speaker 1: so we can't be too critical of him. But he

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Speaker 1: then revealed he's chosen now because of this title fight,

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Speaker 1: to stop drinking entirely that we know partying, he's really

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Speaker 1: knuckling down. That's obviously lauda bull like. He's taking it

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Speaker 1: very seriously. He's looking for every percentage game. But it's

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Speaker 1: also a little bit of information, isn't it That he

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Speaker 1: feels like to overcome anyone in this title fight, and

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Speaker 1: he does expect Maxis happen to be in the mix,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's fair enough. But he's had to

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Speaker 1: change himself from previous years, and if he's still coming

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Speaker 1: up a little bit short after that against Oscar who,

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Speaker 1: as far as we know, because he gives nothing away,

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Speaker 1: he's just doing the same thing he's been doing his

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Speaker 1: whole life, which is just turning up, driving fast and

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Speaker 1: going home. That's sort of another little interest peace to

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Speaker 1: the puzzle I think still has to unplay in that,

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Speaker 1: Like you say, what's eventually going to become a psychological

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Speaker 1: battle as well as one just on the track.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's interesting, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: For all? Weeno Piastri could be off, you know, just

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Speaker 2: finding some Dutch ancestry from VIO four and going out

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Speaker 2: having his own party on a boat and carrying on

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Speaker 2: and hitting his own nose on something, but he's less

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Speaker 2: likely to tell you about it. And I think that's

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Speaker 2: just the interesting approach with the way these two guys race.

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Speaker 2: And I covered a lot of Mark Weber's career and

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Speaker 2: one of Mark's sort of go to phrases among the

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Speaker 2: fifteen on your Bingo car that he would go through,

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Speaker 2: he said he was always he would always say I

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Speaker 2: will give nothing, you know, which means I'm giving absolutely

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Speaker 2: nothing away to anybody, meaning you blokes, which was the

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Speaker 2: media and any of his opponents. He wasn't going to

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Speaker 2: give you any piece of information that could be used

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Speaker 2: as a weakness or turned against him, will provide any

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Speaker 2: fodder that might sort of unseat his sort of rock

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Speaker 2: solid foundation. We know the way that Mark went racing,

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Speaker 2: which was to if he didn't have a quarter to

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Speaker 2: fight out of, he get out of paint Rush and

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Speaker 2: paint one for a five out of it is the

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Speaker 2: way he used to go about it. But Oscar's got

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Speaker 2: a very different mental approach. But I love the methodical

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Speaker 2: nature of what he's doing at the moment relative to

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Speaker 2: the peaks and troughs of the Norris roller coaster, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that you know, there's been a couple of times,

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Speaker 2: you know, all the car has been a bit difficult

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Speaker 2: to drive this week.

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Speaker 3: He's no, that's fine.

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Speaker 2: You know, he'll very subtly downplay things now, whether that's

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Speaker 2: just being him being completely honest and unfiltered, or whether

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Speaker 2: it's just another little opportunity to throw a little jab

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Speaker 2: in there perhaps to be different to the way Norris

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Speaker 2: is reacting to these things. That will probably never know

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Speaker 2: because he's never going to say. But the thing you

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Speaker 2: mentioned about Norris making adjustments, there's an admission there that

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Speaker 2: what I have done in the past is either not

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Speaker 2: good enough or I need to be better in certain

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Speaker 2: areas to get on terms with this guy and the

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Speaker 2: other garage, who outwardly is going to project nothing that's

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Speaker 2: going to be vulnerable. And I think we've just seen

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Speaker 2: that in the way he's raced over the past few

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Speaker 2: weekends and look for a guy we obviously know he's

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Speaker 2: got the Judy Series pedig Piastre, but he's not done

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Speaker 2: this at this level because he's not been around long

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Speaker 2: enough to do it.

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Speaker 3: But he's got all of.

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Speaker 2: The qualities and says the right things of someone who's

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Speaker 2: been in this numerous times. He's acting like a guy

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Speaker 2: who's twenty eight years old that's been in three championship

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Speaker 2: battles already, not a guy who's in this for his

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Speaker 2: first time. And I think that boats really well because

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Speaker 2: you know, we know this seat, there's nineteen more rounds

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Speaker 2: to go and five more sprints. This seague will go forever.

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Speaker 2: We're a long long way from the finish line. But

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Speaker 2: if he can keep that consistent, if that's just one

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Speaker 2: thing in his bag that he does the entire way through,

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Speaker 2: that is going to boat really well.

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Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, there's another one of those little Piastre

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Speaker 1: you know, is of my honest yeah, maybe a piastre

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Speaker 1: ism where he was told Lando Norris said in the

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Speaker 1: TVPN after the race that he thought the Red Bull

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Speaker 1: Racing car is actually faster than Piastri And no, I

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Speaker 1: don't think so I think.

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Speaker 3: And the thing I do love about him here as well.

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Speaker 2: There's an economy of words with him as well, in

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Speaker 2: that whatever it is that's in the forefront of his

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Speaker 2: mind comes out, but then he doesn't feel the need

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Speaker 2: to really expand upon it, and there's often an uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: silence at the end of one of his quite short answers,

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Speaker 2: which is terrible for TV of course because dead air,

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Speaker 2: but it also makes the point there's like nothing more

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Speaker 2: to say, move on, and psychologically I think that's quite

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Speaker 2: interesting as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so plenty more to play out over that, but

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Speaker 1: certainly Piastre is going into this. It's not really a

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Speaker 1: little break, it's just a conventional one weekend off, but

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Speaker 1: after five and six it feels like a little mini

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Speaker 1: break the season before we head to Miami and then

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Speaker 1: the European part of the campaign. He ends up in

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Speaker 1: this break ahead in not only the championship but in

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Speaker 1: that little McLaren inter team battle. Before we move on

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Speaker 1: from this victorious race for Rosco Piastre, of course, we

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Speaker 1: have to go to Move of the Week, brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Shannons just the one race to recap this weekend,

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Speaker 1: The Saudi Arabian Grand Prix not absolutely boasting much passes.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't one of the action packed races. Was a

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Speaker 1: little bit ahead of the Japanese Grand Prix I suppose

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Speaker 1: at least, although not a lot, and it didn't have

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Speaker 1: that appeal of it being Suzuka. I don't know about you, Matt.

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Speaker 1: I've got to admit I struggled to identify hitting you

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Speaker 1: the corners on television at this circuit from one of

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Speaker 1: the other I couldn't agree more. But why do you

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Speaker 1: kick us off? What was your I can just smect

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Speaker 1: I know what it's going to be, but what was

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Speaker 1: your move of the way.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to do here. I'm going to try

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Speaker 2: and attempt a professional segue and set you up for

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Speaker 2: the next segment that I actually don't know what it is.

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Speaker 2: So this is me just throwing on in the air

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Speaker 2: and seeing what happens. But to my mind, move of

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Speaker 2: the week in Saudi there can only be one, and

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Speaker 2: it was lap twenty one when Oscar Piastri, after having

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Speaker 2: made his pit stop, stormed his way past Lewis Hamilton

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Speaker 2: and made Lewis Hamilton look like a guy who was

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Speaker 2: in his first Formula One season, not his nineteenth or

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Speaker 2: whatever it is, with an unbelievable pass through one of

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Speaker 2: those hard to identify sections of the Saudi Racetrack where

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Speaker 2: you go, I'm not quite sure what corner we're in,

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Speaker 2: and we've gone through it so quickly that we've gone

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Speaker 2: through three others before I've worked it out. But to

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Speaker 2: my mind, there was and it was quite I use

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Speaker 2: the word arrogant in a really endearing way here, because

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Speaker 2: there was just this I can put this car past

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Speaker 2: you wherever I should used to.

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Speaker 3: I love the pass.

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Speaker 2: Because I don't think he needed to make it there,

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Speaker 2: but he chose to make it there, and there was

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Speaker 2: just this sort of flex about it, as like I

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Speaker 2: can just pass you here and there's nothing you can

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Speaker 2: do about it. Yes, we're on different strategies and I'm

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Speaker 2: going to pass you eventually, but I'm going to pass

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Speaker 2: you there, and it's not a place where you see

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Speaker 2: people attempt to make passes. I love the audacity of it,

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Speaker 2: but I also love just the complete belief and the confidence.

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Speaker 2: So for me, that was overtake of the week. But

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking there's one other overtake on the low hanging

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Speaker 2: on the tree of overtakes that you might decide to

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Speaker 2: pick off here because it kind of was if you're

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Speaker 2: going where I think you're going. It kind of defined

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Speaker 2: how he got to this point in the race, didn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's very straightforward to what look before

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Speaker 1: I pick more renevotably it's going to be, which is

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Speaker 1: Oscar Piastre technically passing Max with Steffan at the first

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Speaker 1: she came, I said technically because he was judged to

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Speaker 1: have done it but didn't emerge with the lead. I

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Speaker 1: do want to go back a step because the Hamilton.

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Speaker 1: The pass on Hamilton was really interesting for another reason

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Speaker 1: to sort of go back to our previous segment, which

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Speaker 1: is that it came after he'd actually put up quite

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Speaker 1: a big defense Hamilton or Lando Norris in the first

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Speaker 1: into the race round about lap twelve to fifteen. I

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Speaker 1: think it was off the top of my head, which

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Speaker 1: I think actually defined Norris's race because he lost something

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Speaker 1: like four to five seconds from memory battling Hamilton there,

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Speaker 1: and he was only one second behind Charlock there at

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Speaker 1: the end of the race, So potentially that was where

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Speaker 1: his podium went missing, although we don't know if he

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Speaker 1: would have been able to pass their care of course, and

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Speaker 1: it's interesting for two reasons. One is that Hamilton defended

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Speaker 1: by playing with that DRS zone. You might this happens

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Speaker 1: every year. Really, the most famously happened in this race's

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Speaker 1: first year when he was battling with Maxistafan to try

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Speaker 1: and equal the title lead, and they almost crashed, or

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Speaker 1: they did crash in fact, didn't they playing with that

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Speaker 1: DRS zone at the final corner. I think it is

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Speaker 1: managed to hold off Norris for quite a few laps

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Speaker 1: by playing that game. It took Norris, to my mind,

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Speaker 1: too long to realize that was happening and as a

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Speaker 1: result lost time. But what was really interesting is that,

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Speaker 1: as I understand, is that the Norris's race engineer identified

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Speaker 1: that when Oscar Piastre is coming up behind Hamilton told

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Speaker 1: the team whatever, and Piastre was told this, and I

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Speaker 1: can't help but wonder whether he's like, oh okay, and

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Speaker 1: then subsequently just chose to pass Hamilton way before that

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Speaker 1: catch him by surprise in order to not get caught

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Speaker 1: up in that game. So maybe there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of knowledge there. I think you're right, he just chose

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Speaker 1: to pass him wherever he wanted to because he had

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Speaker 1: the speed, he knew he could do it. But it's

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Speaker 1: sort of interesting that he did something that Norris wasn't

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Speaker 1: able to sort of work his way out of quickly

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Speaker 1: enough and there you go. He managed to make that

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Speaker 1: pass that was potentially decisive in keeping himself ahead of

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Speaker 1: a stap And at the end of the race. But yes,

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Speaker 1: the overtake I think for me has to be that

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Speaker 1: first corner because he did everything he needed to do

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Speaker 1: to make the overtake, even though he didn't get ahead

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Speaker 1: of a Stappen, because the Stappin cup that he came

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Speaker 1: great start from him. We've got to remember starts to

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Speaker 1: mclan were pretty ordinary more often than not. Last year.

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Speaker 1: Just absolutely nailed it at one of those tracks where

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Speaker 1: second is occasionally in a better position than Paul and

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Speaker 1: he capitalized on it. And good on here. But the

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Speaker 1: race winning move asterisk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well there's two things here. Do we think that

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Speaker 2: pole position is on the wrong side at Jedda because

433
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 2: I've maintained that it has been since day one, because yes,

434
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,440
Speaker 2: it's not the racing line, but it is the only

435
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 2: line in the first corner. And I'd have to go

436
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: back and have a look at the other race starts

437
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,360
Speaker 2: there to see if similar things had happened. I mean, look,

438
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 2: Piastri absolutely now that start and Vestapen was a little

439
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: bit tardy off the line, that's all that. That's all

440
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 2: it ended up being. But there was a bit of

441
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 2: a degree of inevitability about that first corner, because well,

442
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 2: we've seen how Verstapen rolls in situations like this, and

443
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, I wasn't surprised that it

444
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,840
Speaker 2: played out this way. I was a little bit surprised

445
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: as to how Red Bull responded, but perhaps you can

446
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 2: go into that. And because I thought they actually had

447
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,720
Speaker 2: an immediate opportunity to redress that and give Vestapan a

448
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 2: chance to win the race by not redressing that first

449
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 2: corner and then the subsequent safety current, the way the

450
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,040
Speaker 2: race played out, it only ever seemed to me like

451
00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,199
Speaker 2: Verstapan was only going to finish second, whereas if they

452
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 2: actually addressed it on the first lap, he could have

453
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 2: potentially still won that Grand Prix because he wouldn't have

454
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,800
Speaker 2: snooked himself strategically. But I wonder what you thought with that,

455
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 2: because I thought they took one of their own options

456
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 2: off the table. In a bit of a fit of

457
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, how dare this person pass me? And I

458
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 2: was forced off the track? Perhaps they should have played

459
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 2: that a little bit more cleverly.

460
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't. Because one of the questions

461
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 1: I've been asked a couple of times this week is

462
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: why didn't they just give it? Why? More to the point,

463
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: why weren't they told to hand it back? Because there

464
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: was a period of time in Formula One where that

465
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: was happening all the time. We'd hear the radio messages

466
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 1: on the TV saying, oh, race controls told us give

467
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: the position back because you'll probably get a penalty. And

468
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: Formula One moved away from that a couple of years.

469
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,880
Speaker 1: I think, didn't they where the race director or race

470
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 1: control no longer intervenes in that way. In fact, I

471
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: think it's a policy from even two race directors ago.

472
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: That's probably more of a commentary and how quickly were

473
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: going through race that's ten minutes ago exactly. That doesn't

474
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: excuse that doesn't explain why they chose not to. It

475
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: just explains why they weren't told to. And I'm sort

476
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: of in two minds about that. On the one hand,

477
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,679
Speaker 1: I think it's clean off. Race control intervenes a little bit,

478
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 1: and we just avoid time penalties being part of the

479
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: race because particularly the case if this was in the

480
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 1: second stint, obviously wouldn't be the start of the race

481
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: that way, but then you'd be adding up the seconds

482
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: after the flag and Max would across the line first,

483
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 1: we finishay or whatever, And I think that's a bit messy.

484
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I do like the idea that, well, no,

485
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 1: it's up to the driver and the team to make

486
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,920
Speaker 1: the sporting call one way or another and then live

487
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,239
Speaker 1: or die by that decision. And they didn't. And if

488
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: you want to be generous, you could say, well, the

489
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: safety guard came out so fast they didn't even really

490
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,000
Speaker 1: have a chance to weigh up those options to think

491
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: too much about it. Like, I kind of buy that,

492
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 1: but I also don't get the impression at all from

493
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,600
Speaker 1: the team that they were ever going to do that,

494
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 1: particularly not by the silly and strident defense of Christian

495
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 1: Horner after the fact. Now, of course it was after

496
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: the fact, but I don't get the impression at all

497
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: they would have done it. Max, with Staffan's response after

498
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 1: the race, suggests that he wouldn't have been open to

499
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: it either, and maybe there's something in that. Maybe Red

500
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: Bull thought, well, maybe we should ask him, and then

501
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,159
Speaker 1: they said to know, he's just he's not going to

502
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: do it. He's going to embarrass us. Let's not do that.

503
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 1: So sort of interesting two ways to think about it.

504
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: But the let's start with the MAX sided this before

505
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: we talking about Christian Horner. We can build up to

506
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: this photographic defense. But we've seen it before from him,

507
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: isn't It's not just like you say that we've seen

508
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: it this track before. This is a well known MAX tool,

509
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,160
Speaker 1: isn't it. And it's something we've seen before. And I guess,

510
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,679
Speaker 1: to be fair to him, in previous years he's been

511
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: allowed to get away with moves like this. No longer

512
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: according to these new unpublished driving guidelines is that allowed

513
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,920
Speaker 1: and these were changed after last year. But it's sort

514
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: of interesting to see a driver lose one of their weapons.

515
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's sort of part of the story here.

516
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so.

517
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you can't blame him for attempting

518
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 2: to exploit a loophole in the rule book. That's what

519
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: formula one's all about, quite honest, it's not what the

520
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 2: Formula one rule book says, it's what it doesn't say,

521
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 2: and that sort of determines how you go racing. Where

522
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: there are gray areas, they are there to be exploited.

523
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 2: And yes, we've had this amendment to the rules around

524
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: this because Max has that have turned into a bit

525
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: of an art form. I thought it was interesting, Well, A,

526
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: we know that he goes by this code, He's done

527
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 2: this before, so I was a little bit surprised that

528
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: maybe there wasn't a pre planned response within the team

529
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 2: because the chances of that happening at the first corner,

530
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 2: if for Stapen wasn't in front, I would have thought

531
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 2: were quite high, as simply because this is the way

532
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: he this is the way he races.

533
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

534
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: About you, but the way they handled it in the

535
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: moment and then afterwards, particularly with the Christian Horner's family

536
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: photo album coming to the post race press conference, how

537
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 2: much of that was a team not willing to have

538
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: that difficult conversation with a very adamant driver. If you

539
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,240
Speaker 2: had another team and another driver in that position, would

540
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: they have handled it the same way? I would suggest not,

541
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: because there's this obsession with plaicating the Verstapen persona in

542
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: this respect. You knew that he was going to be

543
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: annoyed about it. You knew he was going to fire

544
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 2: up about it, and you know that's not the time

545
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,959
Speaker 2: to perhaps sell the bigger picture with something like this,

546
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: Whereas I'm thinking, if it's Mercedes and it's George Russell,

547
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 2: or if it's Good Lord of Ferrari's on the front

548
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: and or Rover Race if it was Ferrari, what are

549
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 2: their drive? Is that a difficult conversation and is the

550
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 2: person behind the wheel potentially going to be more reasonable

551
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: in the way they addressed that, or is this purely

552
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 2: that particular driver in that particular team with the subtext

553
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,239
Speaker 2: of everything else that's going on behind the scenes, and

554
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: they desperately need him right now because they're not where

555
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 2: they were, and so on and so forth. I wonder

556
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 2: if another team and driver would have handled it differently, because,

557
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 2: as we were saying before, I just think that had

558
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 2: you've addressed that on lap one, he may still have

559
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 2: finished second in this Gral Prix to Piastre. We just

560
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 2: don't know if that McClaren was faster in Cleve Air.

561
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 2: We know it was another race really dictated by dirty air,

562
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 2: but when they didn't elect to address the first corner

563
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: and then the race played out once the safety car

564
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 2: had gone off the track, to my mind, it was

565
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: only ever going to be a case of a stuff

566
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: and finishing second. I don't think that he he boxed

567
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: himself into a corner, perhaps through his own sort of

568
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: adamant nature or stubbornness on this. But look, I know

569
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: you're dying to talk about Christian Horde's photos here. I'm

570
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: trying to think the Silverstone twenty twenty one was the

571
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 2: first time I seem to remember this happening, but there

572
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: have been some others where they will come. Anytime you

573
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: come to a post race press brief with props, I

574
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: think it's in a completely different, really different category of

575
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: press de brief. But what did you think about that?

576
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: Because to me it was a little bit half hearted almost.

577
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 2: I'm not sure they quite believed what they were selling

578
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,160
Speaker 2: in that regard, but they were going through the motions

579
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,679
Speaker 2: and the theatrics of it because they needed to on

580
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: a level more than actually thinking it might work.

581
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last one I remember is him is Christian

582
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: Horner whipping out some telemetry last year in I.

583
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 3: Want to say Mexico, Mexico.

584
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mexican being a penalty you got for pushing Norris

585
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: off the track, I think yes, and the exact same thing.

586
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 1: And now this is a real if anyone next time

587
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: this happens, because there will be a next time you

588
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,199
Speaker 1: play this game at home, because it will happen. Is

589
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: this is exactly how it plays that he walks here,

590
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: he does his press comerence, these photos of the celemety

591
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: or whatever is the smoking gun. He says, here is

592
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: the black and white evidence. He has his little speel

593
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: about this and that, and then the question comes, so

594
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: are you going to appeal? And then he says no,

595
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So it's like all this evidence

596
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: you've got to all you an interesting evidence, but it's

597
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 1: not worth appealing, which tells everything you need to know

598
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: to go back to your point about how genuine this

599
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: was an attempt at a real defense of the move

600
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: as opposed to appearing to be on the side of

601
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 1: your driver. And what's clearly a nonsense argument because there

602
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: have been times as well, and you can always tell

603
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: with Christian Horna in the past when the I don't

604
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: want to say the relap. The relationship was less fractuos

605
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's a personal relationship problem. It's

606
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: purely just the tenuousness of Vestapan's long term future at

607
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 1: Red Bull Racing. At Horner's trying to move around now,

608
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 1: I meantimes when you could see he knows his drivers

609
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 1: is in the wrong. This happens in the wrong, and

610
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: he says, ah, you know he suspenses always are it's

611
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: probably just a racing incident. Yes, to come out with

612
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: photos is you can see he's taking this to another

613
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: level when I couldn't find anyone anywhere and I still

614
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: am yet to find anyone anywhere who thinks that the

615
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: staffen should have got away with that move, because the

616
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: logical extension is, well, then you just do that every

617
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: time you're being overtaken, you just cut the chicne, you'd

618
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: open the brakes, which is what Max did to try

619
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: to get to the apex first in inverted Commas, despite

620
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 1: the fact he had no intention or no capability of

621
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: making the corner and then arguing the point afterwards. And

622
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: that's the there's sort of this irony in the photograph

623
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: Christian Horner did choose, which is an onboard photograph and

624
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: you can see it areous journalists are published it online.

625
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 1: It shows shows Max for Staffan's front actual ahead of

626
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: Piastre's front axle at what he says is the apex

627
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: of the corner. Ironically, the racing guidelines, and this was

628
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: quoted in the steward's documents, say it doesn't have to

629
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: be front axual ahead to claim the corner app to

630
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: be ahead of the mirrors, because I think, I guess

631
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: that's sort of like the driver's eye line view. And

632
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: the photo shows the Piastre is ahead of the Staffan's mirrors.

633
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: So all Christian Horner's photo has done is proved that

634
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: the stewards were correct in their interpretation of the rules.

635
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: And it also shows that Max has no chance of

636
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: making that conducause if you didn't look at the replay,

637
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: or if you looked at the telemetry which Christian Houna

638
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: didn't print out, you see that he was never going

639
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 1: to make that corner, that he'd chosen early enough not

640
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: to make it.

641
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

642
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 2: Funnily enough, the telemetry didn't make an appearance at the

643
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: press conference when it has in previous cases. But I

644
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: go back, so it was Mexico where Max was doing

645
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: this on multiple quarters, multiple times because things were getting

646
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: a little bit unhinged last year.

647
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 3: But we can go back to Saudi in twenty twenty one.

648
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: You referenced it before.

649
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 2: That was an absolutely insane race because of Max's complete

650
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: refusal to even allow anything other than a reasonable overtake,

651
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: and you know we had the braake testing incident in

652
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: the DRS zone and all of that nonsense. That race

653
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: was completely unhinged because of the way that rule was

654
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 2: being exploited. That really crossed the line that night from

655
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: being a genuine sporting race into some sort of bizarre,

656
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, not particularly funny comedy. It was ridiculous at

657
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: that point. But you yes, you can see the photos.

658
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 2: That's fine, But there's Piastre's on the inside and he's

659
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: got the corner. If you just roll out of the

660
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: break and go straight on because there's a bitch of

661
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: a run off on the outside, then yes, you are

662
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: going to be in the next corner sequence. When you've

663
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 2: got a switchback term one like you do it in

664
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, you're going to be the car ahead and

665
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 2: you can always do that. Well, he pushed me off

666
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: the track, how much break are we using at this point.

667
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 2: That's what the still photos don't tell you. And so

668
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: if that's going to be the way he operates in

669
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: situations on first laps where he's going to be passed

670
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: and you can just flick through the circuits in your head,

671
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: you know, the ones where this could potentially be something

672
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 2: that comes up. Then you know, this is why we

673
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: have tweaks to rules. But I do wonder if the

674
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 2: photo producing element of all of this was just a

675
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 2: bit of a well, we'll just kind of try it on.

676
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 2: But if it doesn't work, and it's probably not going

677
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: to at least we've got our guys back very publicly,

678
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 2: and it can be look, you know, we support you

679
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: no matter what. You know, Please don't go elsewhere if

680
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 2: we don't give you a nice car, etc. There was

681
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: a little bit of that because it was I'm not

682
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: sure they quite believed it, but they went through with

683
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 2: it anyway.

684
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, exactly right. I think that really sums it up. Well,

685
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: there's one other element that I'm it's a bit of

686
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: a hobby horse for me, and Christian Horn was the

687
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: only one I think left using the phrase let them race.

688
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: People have been watching Formula one for a little longer

689
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: or not even that long, really dating back to late

690
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: twenty tens and into twenty twenty one when it really

691
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: hit its peak. Let them race was a philosophy of

692
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: governing racing essentially, and this was it was really, really

693
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: was pre pandemic because it was instituted, if memory serves, essentially,

694
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: when F one felt like it was in a little

695
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: bit of a rut, the sages winning everything, people thought

696
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: the sport was becoming a little bit stale. Let them

697
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: race was a real loosening of the racing guidelines to

698
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: allow more of this kind of stuff where you know, okay,

699
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: race a little bit with a bit more instinct, a

700
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: little bit less race control intervention. But it hit its peak,

701
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: as I said in twenty twenty one, when you've got

702
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,719
Speaker 1: races like Saudi Arabia, even the flash points in Brazil

703
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: between Hamilton and Verstapen. It was usually between Hamilton Verstapen,

704
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: things just became a little bit unhinged and a little

705
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: bit out of control. And let them races subsequently been

706
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: wound back as a concept because the drivers are much

707
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: more willing now to allow a little bit of intervention

708
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: from race control to ensure consistency most importantly, but also

709
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: just the rules of governor. And we go back to

710
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: it was again Mexico, or after Mexico last year, or

711
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 1: around between the US and Mexico last year. But the

712
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: drivers had a meeting with race Control, and you remember

713
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: that nineteen of twenty of them agreed that we needed

714
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: tighter rules. And you can guess who the twentieth was,

715
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: him be Staffen. And that's fine, like he's got his

716
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: own opinion, he's perfectly entitled to it, but let them

717
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: race is now so out of step with the approach philosophily, philosophically,

718
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: with the way the sport's going that I thought Christian

719
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: Horner bringing that up was just a bit disingenuous or

720
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: at best a little bit dated, and it just is

721
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: not the way the sport's moving at the moment. Now

722
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: you can argue that it should go back that way

723
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: if you like, that's fine, but I think that sort

724
00:31:57,800 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: of almost sums up the problem when we approach some

725
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: of my stappens. This is by no means the most egregious.

726
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: He hasn't been doing anything too wacky this year yet,

727
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: But to keep arguing for an approach that has been

728
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: actively moved away from, largely because of the actions of

729
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: your driver. Actions like this just feels like it misses

730
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: the point, and I do wonder whether we're going to

731
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: get more of this this year. I think Max starting

732
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: from the back foot means we're probably not going to

733
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: see the kind of elbows out stuff we saw last

734
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 1: year when it felt like he was losing a bit

735
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: of momentum relative to Norris. I think he's a little

736
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: bit more knuckled down when you know he's a little

737
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: bit fighting from a corner. But we'll wait and see.

738
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: It's remains to be seen. I thought his reaction after

739
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: the race was actually a bit surprising, to be honest.

740
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: But there's yeah, there's a lot going on there that's

741
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: more than simply a driver and a team being unhappy

742
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: with a penalty.

743
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,960
Speaker 2: Before we move on, because we could talk about this

744
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: for another three hours. There's two things that I thought

745
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: of here. Modern day circuit design, where you don't have

746
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 2: grass or gravel on the outsides of turn one anymore,

747
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 2: so that allows this sort of thing to become more prevalent,

748
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: particularly straight tracks. You mentioned in Telagos in twenty one.

749
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: Also that year it was at a particular corner of

750
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 2: that circuit. There's not a lot of runoff on a

751
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: lot of the corners at Intelargos, but where that was

752
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: going on down at thirty four, that's where there's the

753
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 2: biggest runoff of the circuit. So no great surprise there.

754
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: They're both like four miles out in the tarmac runoff

755
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: out there.

756
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: There's that part of it.

757
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 2: But I'm wondering, now we would need to put ourselves

758
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: in a situation where someone had outmaxed Max and done

759
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: something similar at the first corner from a position of advantage.

760
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 2: This generally happens with the stapp and when he's a

761
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 2: position in a position of advantage a in the championship

762
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: last year, as you mentioned, when he was desperately hanging

763
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: on B in this race because he was on pole,

764
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: he wasn't second. If someone does to him what he

765
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: has done to someone down the track, I'll be very

766
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: curious to see what his response is, and I'll be

767
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 2: very curious to see what the team's response is and

768
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 2: Christian Horner's response. But then I'm thinking about this, and

769
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 2: I'm struggling to think of too many situations where someone

770
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 2: is going to be as I guess provocative and push

771
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 2: things as much as this. I don't know if we've

772
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: got someone that's going to fight like that against him necessarily,

773
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: particularly this season where the RedBull clearly isn't the quickest

774
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: car and he's out performing the expectations of what it

775
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 2: should be doing. But if we get that situation, I'll

776
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: be super curious to see how it's handled and if

777
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: any photographs get brought to the lust races.

778
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. I think I'm struggling to

779
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: think of any drivers who really take it to or

780
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: pass the limit in some cases as Max does. We

781
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 1: don't know, because, for example, Oscar Piastri hasn't had that

782
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: much time at the front, and other drivers too. I

783
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: feel like Oscar Piastri might be his sternest test. We

784
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: know Lando Norris doesn't like to race like that. He's

785
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: been explicit about that it's not the way he wants

786
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 1: to go about it, but sometimes that changes, you know.

787
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: The last and I'm sure there have been other examples

788
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: of it, I'm completely sure, but the last one that

789
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: springs to mind is twenty twenty one, funnily enough, and

790
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: the Abu Dhabi finale, where if memory serves Vstaffan was

791
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: on the inside, Hamilton was the outside. I can't remember

792
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: the corner and it wasn't quite like this, but Verstaffan

793
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: kind of claimed the corner and Hamilton cut the corner,

794
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 1: and in that year of let them race, the steward

795
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: said that's fine, and Max was very unhappy about that

796
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: at the time. Obviously winning the championship meant he didn't

797
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: care too much after the fact. But you know, the

798
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: shoe was on the other foot, has been on the

799
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: other foot before, and at that time Red Bull and

800
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: Max thought, all, maybe that rule needs to be tightened up.

801
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: So I know that's going back quite a few years.

802
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, first lap into the back straight, I remember it well.

803
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: I've tried to remove most memories of twenty twenty one

804
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: from my memory. Not one of the great nights, I

805
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: would have to say, A working and B for Formula one.

806
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: But yeah, you're completely right. The shoe was on the

807
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: other foot then, but with the rules being adjudicated as

808
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: they were then, then it was a play on nothing

809
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 2: to see here, so interesting.

810
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: Well, let's see sir looking backwards, Matt and look forwards

811
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: a little bit more forwards in fact, because it's time

812
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: for the crystal Ball brought to you by Complete Home Filtration,

813
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: looking forward to a non f one weekend. But of

814
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: course there are no limits to the predictions we make

815
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: in this segment. So why do you kick us off, mat.

816
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 2: Hm because I'm in my two wheelheadspace today. Has got

817
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: the Spanish Motor GP coming up this weekend. Ducati could

818
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:06,240
Speaker 2: equal Honda's most number of consecutive wins by one manufacturer

819
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: in Grand Prix racing this weekend twenty two races in

820
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven and ninety eight. Jucati currently on twenty one.

821
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: So is there going to be anyone that beats to Cati.

822
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to say no, and they're going to equal

823
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: that record. But my crystal Ball of the week is

824
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 2: I bel I feel that Herrath is really a Yamaha track,

825
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 2: no real massive straits like we've seen in the past

826
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 2: couple of rounds in Qatar and in Austin. So my

827
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: crystal ball has a Yamaha on the podium of the

828
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,320
Speaker 2: Motor GP race in Harrath, and I would love to

829
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: say it's going to be Jack Miller, but I think

830
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: it's going to beat Fabio Quatturo.

831
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: Either way, I think it would be a good story.

832
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: Fantastic a Yamaha getting back on the podium. Yes, I

833
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: really thought you were going with this. Was Dakati going

834
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: to before they get the final hurdle here of equaling

835
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: the record.

836
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 2: Well, that would just be a nicer story, that would

837
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 2: that would be very very silly. I think short of

838
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,959
Speaker 2: there being a deluge Vrain, I think Dukati keeps winning

839
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: races until they change the rules for twenty two years aver.

840
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: That's I'm going to take one step backwards to go

841
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: two steps forwards here. I'm going to make a prediction

842
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: for the Miami Grand Prix which based very much on

843
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: what we've learned from Saudi Arabia, which is that Lance

844
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: Stroll is going to extend his record of Q one

845
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: knockouts to seventy six. This is a little record that

846
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: I think when someone under the radar at the weekend

847
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: that no driver in F one history or in the

848
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: history of this qualifying format obviously has been eliminated in

849
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 1: Q one more than Lance's Stroll, which is not the

850
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: kind of records you want. He surpassed Kevin Magnuson, He's

851
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: the previous record holder on seventy four. Obviously, and it

852
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 1: was interesting. He's defense afterwards, well, of course I'm not

853
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: driving a great car, which I'm sure his dad wouldn't

854
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: have been tough to hear about. But then someone's done

855
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: the maths. I think I should probably credit the race here.

856
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: Compared him to his teammates over the years, and he's

857
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 1: essentially been knocked out in Q one twice as often

858
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: as they have, and his teammates combined have made Q

859
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: three the top ten by roughly the same number of times,

860
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: seventy five, seventy something like that, So not a great

861
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: excuse he it's the shame. I actually thought he started

862
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: the season quite well, but the last few races have

863
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: been very dare I say vintage Lance.

864
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 2: Oh Man as career epitaphs go, that's yeah, pretty a

865
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 2: grim and be appropriate. But we're talking about low hang

866
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 2: you fruit before I think that's actually on the ground

867
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 2: and you've just picked it up. You haven't even picked

868
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 2: it off the tree at this point.

869
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 3: But no fair play.

870
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: It's the surest fire crystal ball prediction either of us

871
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: has made so far, So I do like your chances

872
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: so much.

873
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: On the ground, it's it's pretty much a.

874
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: Potato decomposed yes.

875
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: It's decompussy. Well, on that note, that's all the time

876
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: we've got for Pittalk today. You can subscribe to pittok

877
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and you can leave

878
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: us a rating and review as well. This weekend, just

879
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 1: one race. It's the Spanish Motorcycle Grand Prix and it's

880
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: at the very civil time of ten pm Eastern time

881
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: on Sunday night. You can keep up to date with

882
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: all the latest F one, Supercars and Moto GP news

883
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: at Fox sports dot com dot are you from Matt

884
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: Clayton and me Michael Lomonado. Thanks very much for your

885
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 1: company and we'll catch you next week.