1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: Eat worm. Oh that's three three, three oh three, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen. 2 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: Alright, four kid, when we get to twenty, I'm going 3 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 2: to try recording again. 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 3: You're ready eighteen and I did twenty good a. 5 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. I'm asher, but this play caused 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 2: me Dad, Good morning, Wolf King, Good morning? 7 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: How are you today? Good? 8 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 2: This episode, I'm going to ask people a question that 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: starts like this, what do you want a politician to 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: sound like? If you had someone who's in charge of everybody? 11 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: Right? Welve? 12 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 2: Would you like them to sound cranky? Would you like 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: them to sound friendly? Would you like them to sound 14 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: like someone you would trust? 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: What do you think trust? Trust? You're five? That's a 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: pretty good answer. 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: And if you're tallying up the words you're there were using, 18 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: would you want them to have words that were like 19 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: all about oh, how everything's a problem because the other 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: guy or they want to have we will do a 21 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 2: lot to talk more about how we're all together, we've 22 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: got to figure stuff. 23 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 3: Out, figure stuff out. 24 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, again, you're five. That's amazing. 25 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 2: So in this episode, those people who are who's these 26 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 2: kind of people, these leaders, we call them politicians, woof. 27 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 2: And there's an election coming up very soon, and I 28 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: speak to a politician in this episode. She's a mum 29 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: as well. I ask her very similar questions to what 30 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: other politicians get asked, but she answers with the words 31 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 2: community and people pretty much every answer, and that says 32 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 2: a lot about how she thinks about things. 33 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: But we'll get to that in a minute. 34 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: I have to play a commercial s, Wolfgang, can you 35 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 2: say back after the break back? 36 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: After good job, gooday, Welcome to the show. 37 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: This is better than yesterday, making it better every single 38 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: episode since twenty thirteen. 39 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 1: My name's Asha Ginsburg. Your name is We've got goods 40 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: bug hell mate. 41 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for helping me in the garden yesterday. 42 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: Tell people what we built yesterday. We built a dog 43 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: worb farb a dog worm farm or a dog poo 44 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: web far a dog pooh worm farm. It was very good. 45 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: And when we were putting it in the garden, I said, 46 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: because Mum was at work and I need to take 47 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 2: a photo of where to put it in the garden 48 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: said to dig a big hole. I said, hey, wolf 49 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 2: can you just jump over there and pretend to be 50 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 2: a dog poo worm farm and your impression of a 51 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 2: dog poo worm farm was extraordinary, Like it was amazing 52 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 2: standing among the bamboo. 53 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: I was very, very impressed. 54 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 2: I got to quickly say that on the eleventh of May, 55 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: our next Story Club show is happening and we just 56 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 2: locked in. This morning, we locked in another guest so 57 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 2: far we have. That's what I reckon. He's the guy 58 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: with the long hair and makes he cooks stuff, Hannah Riley. 59 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: She's an incredibly talented writer and comedian and Graciotto. Graciotto 60 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: locked in this morning. 61 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 3: Wolf. 62 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: That's exciting. 63 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: You don't know who she is yet, but she's super 64 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: cool and I'm very excited. We have more guests to 65 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: be announced. As soon as the holidays are over and 66 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: people will stopped camping and come back to civilization where 67 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: their phones work, the confirmations will. 68 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: Start coming in. But the next show is the eleventh 69 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: of May. 70 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 2: There's a link in the show notes to get around 71 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 2: that it's a part of the Sydney comedy First civil 72 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 2: and we cannot wait to be there. 73 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: So Allegra Spenders on the show today. 74 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: We recorded this live at south By Southwest last year 75 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 2: and it was fantastic. Now, before we get to Allegra, 76 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 2: I just did want to encourage you. I do talk 77 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 2: about it a little bit sometimes on this show. Take 78 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 2: the time if you would, I'd encourage you to use 79 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: something that the ABC has put together. It's called the 80 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 2: vote Compass. I'm always surprised by it because who I 81 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:39,119 Speaker 2: think I am versus who I actually am around politics 82 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: and policy are sometimes two different things. In my twenties, 83 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: I would have identified as a Greens vertict because that's 84 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: what I believed I was when I read the newspaper 85 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: or I listened to the radio and I compared myself 86 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: to what the kind of mainstream chat was about. 87 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: But it turns out I wasn't and I'm not. 88 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: If I vote on policy and not party, it changes. 89 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: The way I vote. Wolfe's learning how to read, so 90 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: he's reading words. What are you reading? Where are you 91 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: reading the numbers? 92 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: So when it comes to this election, I would encourage 93 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: you take ten minutes. Google up ABC vote Compass, pop 94 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: in your post code ticks and boxes. Man, you might 95 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: be surprised. So my guest today is Allegra Spender. She 96 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 2: is the incumbent member for the Sydney seat of Wentworth, 97 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 2: is the seat that I live in. She has been 98 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: on this show before. Actually every time she's been on 99 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: the show has been a live show, which has been great. 100 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: She is one of the Independence, the Teal Independence who 101 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: came in at a wave in the twenty twenty two election. 102 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: And I'm really happy to have this conversation because a 103 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: Legra talks about the reality of being a politician, including 104 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 2: the very best and worst parts of the job, the 105 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,160 Speaker 2: problems with the culture in camera, and why politicians are 106 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 2: often focused on probably not the most productive things. Allega 107 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 2: also shares her plans for solving issues like climate change. 108 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 1: And violence in the community. 109 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,679 Speaker 2: She tells us as well how we could be better 110 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: harnessing the power of the people in the community. Like 111 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: I said, we recorded this last year at the south 112 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: By Southwest conference, which was no mean feat so massive. 113 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: Thanks to the team from south By Southwest and the 114 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: Legras team as well for making this happen, because she's 115 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: an incredibly busy person as you'd imagine, and I couldn't 116 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 2: have been more grateful that she made the time to 117 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: do it with us. I hope you enjoy this conversation 118 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 2: and I will let the crowd on the day welcome 119 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 2: Allegra right. 120 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: Now here we are. How are you. 121 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 4: I'm very well, You're good. 122 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 3: Thanks for doing this. 123 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: You're a busy person anytime. 124 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 4: I really yeah, seriously. 125 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: I'm very grateful. 126 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: The last time I saw you, we were riding bicycles 127 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 2: up a hill in camera. 128 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 4: That is true. Actually I forgot about that, but that 129 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 4: was also important for good. 130 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 3: That's that's important to me. 131 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 4: You've brought that memory back to me. 132 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:57,600 Speaker 1: Thank you. 133 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 3: Ah, it was I saw the e bike smile. 134 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 2: I sit on the board of we Write, which is 135 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: a government facing industry body that advo case for cycling 136 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 2: infrastructure and things. You have some history with this building. 137 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: We're in the International Convention Center in Darling Harbor and Sydney. 138 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 3: What's your history with this building? 139 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 4: This is the building which is the reason I'm in politics, 140 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 4: because back in I think as twenty twelve, a friend 141 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 4: of mine was working in the environmental sector and he 142 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 4: had come to an agreement with Lenley's and the people 143 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 4: building this building to put solar panels on the roof 144 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 4: of this center and to actually offer them to community 145 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 4: members to buy into, particularly for renters and apartment dwellers 146 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 4: who couldn't otherwise put solar on their own roots say, look, 147 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 4: you can still actually buy into solar energy in terms 148 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 4: of the environmental impacts but also the returns. And so 149 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 4: I worked with that friend and a board to make 150 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 4: that happen, to put the biggest actually city based solar 151 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 4: ray in I think it was in the Southern Hemisphere 152 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 4: at the time. Yes, it's not bad, it's huge, and 153 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 4: it's and then. 154 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 3: Half a mega waite of those in the crowd. Yeah, 155 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 3: and I know this stuff. 156 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 4: But what was interesting is ten years later when I 157 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 4: was approached as would I consider running for Wentworth And 158 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 4: the reason why they approached me was because of this job, 159 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: because I had been involved in the renewable energy industry 160 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 4: and they're like, oh, you know, have you heard of 161 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 4: a legraspender. She's interested in community and she's interested in 162 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: renewable energy, and so that's for me. I always tell 163 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 4: this story to kids, because you know, people are saying, well, 164 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: how do you get where you want to go? And 165 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 4: the truth is sometimes if you do the things that 166 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 4: matter to you, not because you know they're going to 167 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 4: lead you somewhere, but because they matter and they're worth 168 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 4: doing them in themselves, they will create other opportunities down 169 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 4: the road and that's what this has done. 170 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more. 171 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: The last time we were on the podcast, it was 172 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: right before that people decided would rather you than the 173 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 2: other guy. 174 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 3: You work very hard on climate action and camera. 175 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: What's the difference between what you thought you might face 176 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: in driving change and what you're actually facing. 177 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 4: I think one thing that surprised me about politics and 178 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 4: Canberra is how personal it is, and it really does 179 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 4: come back to people in terms of climate action. It's 180 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: actually really understanding the different players, the individuals, and how 181 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 4: to sort of create change within that. But I think 182 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 4: the other piece is also I always come back to 183 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 4: the piece that politicians are frankly you don't mean to 184 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 4: be mean here, but not necessarily very courageous. And what 185 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 4: makes a difference also in politics and how you do 186 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 4: drive change is actually continuing to work with the community, 187 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 4: because if the community doesn't back something, it's really hard 188 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 4: for politicians to back it. This is actually where working 189 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: with the community and driving and putting on pressure from 190 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: the community creates change. And that can be from things 191 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 4: like on climate action. Let's think about, you know, the 192 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 4: push towards electric vehicles and the push towards fuel efficiency standards. 193 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 4: It is actually the power of my community and other 194 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 4: communities who said, yeah, you know what, we think fuel 195 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 4: efficiency standards make sense. That started to push and help 196 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: the government to have courage to do this. So I 197 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 4: think it's about the personal, you understanding the personal, but 198 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 4: it's also about really harnessing the community as. 199 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: Well when you are trying to have conversations though with 200 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: people who have I don't know if you're looking at 201 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: federal seats towards or camping and stuff like that, where 202 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: literally all the employment is around the high economy of 203 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: the area is on coal. Are you able to have 204 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 2: conversations about the economic realities of not making a choice 205 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: now versus that choice being made for that community by 206 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: the market in twenty years fifteen years. 207 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 4: I think you have to have the conversation. I was 208 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: actually at the Bondai Bolo the other day and there 209 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 4: was a bucks party of young men or from the country, 210 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 4: almost all of them from the rural Australia, and so 211 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 4: one of them came up who he was interested in politics, 212 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 4: the groom to be. He was slightly ineborate and very entertaining, 213 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 4: but also very since conversation about you know, the challenges 214 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 4: in his community about renewable energy, about the concern about farmland, 215 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 4: And the truth is that you have to have the 216 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 4: conversation because I get it, like I get that, you know, 217 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 4: in some communities they don't really like the look of 218 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 4: solar panels. They don't want to see, you know, transmission lines. 219 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 4: But the truth is also we've got to be honest 220 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 4: about well, you know, in an ideal world, would I 221 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 4: have them either, maybe not, But the consequences of not 222 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 4: taking climate action are much worse. So we have to 223 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 4: be honest about that. And we need to also be 224 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 4: empathetic that these are people's lives. It does affect them, 225 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 4: and let's make sure that you work with them rather 226 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 4: than say, you know, I don't care that it affects you, 227 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 4: because I do care that it affects rural communities, and 228 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 4: I do think we actually need to make sure that 229 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 4: rural communities who are affected both you know, in terms 230 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 4: of loss of coal jobs or in terms of having 231 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: this new infrastructure, that they do get the support they 232 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 4: actually see some of the benefits of this transitions as 233 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 4: well as other communities. 234 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,560 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but if I ever meet 235 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 2: someone in that position, I usually ask Sometimes I don't 236 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 2: and I offer advice for their wedding day, their marriage. 237 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: What advice did you have for the young man? 238 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 4: I didn't Actually he didn't seek it. 239 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 2: We were too busy, right, What advice would you have 240 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 2: given it? 241 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: What advice is a marriage? My husband and I did 242 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 4: pre marital counseling and I think that's a good thing. 243 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 4: We were a lot of people do it, you know, 244 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 4: if you get married in the church, you know, with 245 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 4: a priest. We were not religious, we didn't, but we 246 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 4: did do pre marital counseling and they kind of almost 247 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 4: do a kind of an inventory of issues that might 248 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 4: come up and do you guys know how you feel 249 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 4: about these issues and have you thought about it and 250 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 4: have you talked about it? And they also gave the 251 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 4: advice to have a meeting every week, one on logistics 252 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 4: like how are you going to get stuff done this week? 253 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 4: And the other side is about you know, things that 254 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 4: are working and things that aren't working. So just saying, hey, 255 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 4: you know, the way you stack the dishwashers driving me insane, 256 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,040 Speaker 4: but you know, thank you for taking the kids to 257 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 4: school on Thursday. So that's that's the advice I've been given. 258 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 2: It makes me wonder like, would pre parliamentary counseling be useful. 259 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 4: I don't know that pre parliamentary counseling. It is a 260 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: job with it. For me, I've had enormous joy and 261 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 4: that's actually not what I didn't expect so much joy. 262 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 4: I thought there'd be a lot of shouting, a lot 263 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 4: of fighting, and there is that in Parliament. But you know, 264 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 4: the best part of the job is the people that 265 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 4: you meet, and you are there in some very both 266 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 4: beautiful and difficult moments in people's lives. One I'll never 267 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 4: forget is so you know, my electorate includes Bondi Junction, 268 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 4: which was obviously the side of that absolutely tragic killing 269 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 4: of six six people. And one of the parents of 270 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 4: a woman called Elizabeth Young was very passionate and in 271 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 4: her eulogy for her daughter, Jade Young, she spoke about, 272 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 4: you know, the need for support for people with complex 273 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 4: mental health needs, and I spoke about that in Parliament. 274 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: She got in touch and she came up to Parliament 275 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 4: and spoke with me and others in a forum about 276 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 4: you know, her experience of complex mental health needs and 277 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 4: why she cared and to sit there and listen to 278 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 4: somebody's story and personally and get to know somebody in 279 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 4: that situation through one of the most tragic and awful 280 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 4: experience of anyone's life. You know, I'll never forget it. 281 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 4: Through that engagement, I've had more people now come to 282 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: me and talk about as parents, you know, of adult 283 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 4: children living with complex mental health needs, and how difficult 284 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 4: it is. And it's very sad and very difficult, but 285 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 4: it is also part of the job is understanding what 286 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 4: people are going through and using that experience to drive 287 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 4: change and to make sure that these issues are actually 288 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 4: talked about. So I know that's a very tough example, 289 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 4: but you know, even the other day I went to 290 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 4: a local dementia care unit in Wentworth for people, you know, 291 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 4: just at the early stages of dementia, and I was 292 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 4: sitting there with a group of people who you know, 293 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 4: who have only been diagnosed, say, probably in the last 294 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 4: year or so, and they were playing, you know, doing 295 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 4: games and offering support to each other and making some 296 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 4: pretty funny jokes about what it's like living with dementia. 297 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 4: And you know, that again is a huge privilege because 298 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 4: obviously it's incredibly frightening to have something like dementia, but 299 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 4: to see the courage with which they were addressing that. 300 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 4: You know, that is a massive privilege. So that's kind 301 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 4: of the joy I get, and to be honest, the 302 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 4: richness you understand from being an MP. 303 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: We were there that day. I was there with my son. 304 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: We went to the doctor, and then we met my 305 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 2: wife and my stepdaughter and they left forty five minutes 306 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: before it happened, and they were sitting right where it 307 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: all went down. To imagine myself at her eulogy offering 308 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: the empathy to the attacker, Oh my goodness, me like 309 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 2: that is unbelievable, But it does show that it can happen. 310 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: It shows that we have the capacity as humans to 311 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: have empathy for even people who have taken so much 312 00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 2: from us, and it is without it we don't move, 313 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: don't move forward when it comes to things like climate action, 314 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: and you're working with people who are fairly said in 315 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 2: their ways and maybe stakeholders that we don't know about yet. 316 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: You know, you can have all the empathy you can, 317 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: but then surely you might get a clue that something 318 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 2: else is going on. What are the obstacles that you're 319 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: seeing to climate action at the moment. 320 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 4: I'll be honest, I think mutting the waters and political uncertainty, 321 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 4: and I think, you know, for instance, if you look 322 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 4: at the nuclear debate going on right now, you know, 323 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 4: I see nuclear as a really important part of the 324 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 4: world's transition. But I think what I'm what is concerning 325 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 4: to me is, you know, speaking to an investor this week, 326 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 4: you know, in a big renewable energy investor, saying it's 327 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 4: when when there's a lack of certainty that you know 328 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 4: that we're actually going to continue on this path, when 329 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 4: we are actually committed to reducing emissions, that actually stops us, 330 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 4: you know, making the investments that we need. So I think, 331 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 4: you know, what we need to do now, right now, 332 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 4: is to go, look, we actually have made a huge 333 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 4: amount of progress. Grid is already renewable. It's actually really important. 334 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 4: But the next ten years really matters, and it matters 335 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 4: for climate. But it also matters, frankly because most of 336 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 4: the coal fire powerstations are going to close in the 337 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 4: next ten years, So we actually have to deal with 338 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 4: that as well now. And so just coming back to 339 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 4: the sort of reality of you know, what we actually 340 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 4: have to deal with, and then coming back to the facts, 341 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 4: this is not something we can just kick down the road. 342 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 4: We have kicked this can so far down the road 343 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 4: that you know it is. It's we've made it really 344 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 4: hard for ourselves, but we need to just keep pushing through. 345 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 2: There's a saying on Wall Street which I kind of 346 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 2: love that money is a coward. It doesn't like conflict, 347 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 2: it doesn't like instability, it likes things to be predictable. 348 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 4: That's good, it's a good line. 349 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: I love that you just wrote that down. 350 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 4: This is why I was writing a different note about. 351 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 2: Something else, milk bread pick up from jiu jitsu. 352 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 3: I love that. 353 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 2: You know, for example, there's a power station owned by 354 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 2: a chech company. They are fifteen different and banks to 355 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 2: cover it, and they wouldn't do it. Like that's fifteen 356 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 2: different sets of analysts around the world who have no 357 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 2: stake at all in Australian domestic politics are like, nope, 358 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 2: we're not going to do that. Surely the signals are 359 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: loud enough. And look, I'm not here or there on 360 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 2: nuclear but time wise and budget wise it doesn't stack up. 361 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 4: It's about the next ten years. Let's just get the 362 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 4: next ten years right first. 363 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: There's a bubble in every industry, all right. 364 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 2: I worked in radio for a long time, and once 365 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 2: I left radio, I got out, I was like, oh wow, 366 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 2: no one else gives a shit about radio. 367 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 3: But when you're in radio, it's like the only thing 368 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 3: in the world. 369 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 2: It's like real estate, Like all those guys want to 370 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: talk about is creating Come on the camera. Bubble is 371 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 2: definitely a thing you get career politicians, retail men, and 372 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 2: women who've been that since they were teenagers. What's your 373 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 2: What effect does that bubble have on taking action around 374 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 2: things like climate? 375 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 4: The bubble means that people, I think, lose touch with 376 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 4: of real people's lives and also lose touch with the 377 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 4: sense of what is kind of acceptable behavior. And I've 378 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 4: had this. I mean, I'll come back to climate, but 379 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 4: let me talk about behavior, because I had this conversation, 380 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 4: you know, with a lot of people going. You know, 381 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 4: what goes on in question time, the shouting, the sort 382 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 4: of name calling, all those things, it actually diminishes everybody. 383 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 4: It diminishes the country. But real people do not like this. 384 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 4: But I think if you've been in the bubble for 385 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 4: a long time, or if you're you sit there and go, 386 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: you know, my party a leader, you know the person 387 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 4: I wish I would be one day he behaves like this, 388 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 4: so therefore I will behave like this. It's because you've 389 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 4: lost touch with you know, how people really want to 390 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 4: behave And you know, I get that. Every time I 391 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 4: have actually friends or you know, even members of the 392 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 4: constitution of my community come to question time, they always 393 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 4: go is it always like that? It's losing touch And 394 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 4: I think coming you know, when people ask me you 395 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 4: are interested in politics, you know, how can how to 396 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 4: get into politics? I always say, Look, if you actually 397 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 4: spend you know, five, ten, fifteen, twenty years doing something 398 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 4: else and actually building skills and building experience in other 399 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 4: parts of you know, the community and our country, because 400 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: that will serve you well when you come in, if 401 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 4: you come into canber or you know, a different legislator 402 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: to really understand, you know, what are the practical problems 403 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 4: that people have rather than what are the kind of 404 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 4: political messaging that we need to get around this. So 405 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 4: that's that's I guess how I think of the camera 406 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 4: bubble is it loses touch with the reality of people's 407 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 4: lives and the realitive we expect. 408 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 3: You know, you went to Canberra. Part of your platform 409 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 3: was reform. 410 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 2: What do we lose by letting really important time with 411 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 2: everyone together to actually debate and come to a consensus. 412 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 2: What do we lose by not allowing that to happen, 413 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: and what needs to change for us to have those 414 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 2: kind of vital debates that we need to move forward. 415 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 4: What do we lose is, you know, we lose an 416 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 4: opportunity to talk about the important issues of the day. 417 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 4: We lose an opp unity actually to bring our country 418 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 4: together on difficult issues because we are facing you know, 419 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 4: climate is one of them, but there are many issues 420 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 4: that we as a country are facing where we are 421 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 4: more divided, you know, and feeling divided right now, and 422 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 4: where also people want government to be accountable. And when 423 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 4: we politicize and we play it like a theater and 424 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 4: people see Parliament like a theater, we actually lose the 425 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 4: seriousness of what is going on. And so I think 426 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 4: some of the best questions, for instance, in question time 427 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 4: are the really practical ones someone saying in my constituency, 428 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: this person has had this experience, you know, is this 429 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 4: what we're meant to be doing here? And that is 430 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 4: actually holding government to account on what is important and 431 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 4: what is real in people's lives and how they experience government. 432 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: Just on occasion every now and again, when I'm watching 433 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 2: the Fuddley going on, I'll look up on YouTube Keating 434 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: and I'll watch. 435 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 3: Him say to John Houston, I'm going to do you slowly. 436 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. 437 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 2: I mean it's all it's all wrestling, it's all. 438 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 4: It's all positioning, it's all. It's it's like it's funny, 439 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,360 Speaker 4: but it doesn't mean it's actually productive. 440 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 2: It's like the most recent political debates in America, people 441 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,199 Speaker 2: are panning them because they were boring or they should be. 442 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: You know, people, I don't want. 443 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: To anyone to destroy, you know, because I want a 444 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 2: candidate it couldn't be destroyed. Not I want a candidate 445 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 2: that destroys someone to get what they want. 446 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 3: That's not it. It is. 447 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 4: And I think one of the hard things is the 448 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 4: more outraged, the more anger you have, both in parliament 449 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 4: but also on social media. You know, there more reaction 450 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 4: you get, and so what we have to do And 451 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 4: I think this is certainly what I'm trying to do, 452 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 4: and I know others are. It's saying how do you 453 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 4: kind of stick in the nuance, like you know, stick 454 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 4: with this of complexity, saying you know that we do 455 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 4: not have easy quick wins on so many difficult issues. 456 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 4: You know, they are hard, they take work, and you 457 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 4: know there's not one line that's going to fix them. 458 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 4: But we need to, you know, need to work practically 459 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 4: on on this and actually we have to be clear, 460 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 4: but we also need to we can't dump it down 461 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 4: to the point that it's actually it's not real anymore. 462 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 4: I mean, and I'll use housing as an example, because 463 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 4: we have had you know, we have a failure of 464 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 4: public policy in housing for the last twenty plus years. 465 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 4: And this is an area where we have had generation 466 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 4: after generation of state, federal, local government saying, oh this, 467 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 4: you know, home first, home buyers, grant, oh this is 468 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 4: this is what's going to fix it, and you know, 469 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 4: none of it has. And that's why we lose trust 470 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 4: is because everyone says this is, this is the Promised Land, 471 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 4: and the never it never is. 472 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: How do you have conversations with people? 473 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, there was an article this morning 474 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 2: in the news about who wanns how many houses? How 475 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 2: do you have a conversation in the House of Parliament 476 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 2: when most of the people own way more than the 477 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: house they live in. 478 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I think one of the areas that 479 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 4: I've been pushing and we're actually going to see I'm 480 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 4: hoping to see some effort in This is actually about 481 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 4: getting real Australians, different people together and having citizens assemblies 482 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 4: or conversations about what are the trade offfs on housing 483 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 4: because there are trade offs here like it. Not everybody 484 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 4: wants the same thing. But the truth is the system 485 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 4: as it is means that our younger generations are being 486 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 4: locked out and we have to face that. I don't 487 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 4: think we can ignore that. We actually have to deal 488 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 4: with it, but we need to find a way to 489 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 4: come together as a country around this. So one of 490 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 4: the big questions is how do you get the voices 491 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 4: of everyday Australians more into the public debate and how 492 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 4: do you help everyday people talk about those trade offs 493 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 4: and work out what they think is fair. And so 494 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 4: there is this idea of citizens assemblies, like randomly selecting people, 495 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 4: bringing them together, getting them to talk through some of 496 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 4: these issues, listen to experts and then put forward reform ideas. 497 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: And you know, I know there's a new not for 498 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 4: profit in democracy Court Amplify that is trying is looking 499 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 4: to do some of that work, and I think they're 500 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 4: going to be doing that in housing. I think that's 501 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 4: really exciting, because you know, in politics it can't be 502 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,359 Speaker 4: a bubble. It actually has to make it reference to 503 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 4: people's lives, and that means actually also listening to people 504 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 4: and letting them have a voice on some of those 505 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 4: complicated trade offs that we need to face. 506 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: I'm enormously passionate about the OPE Exhortician and citizens assemblies, 507 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: and the thing I love about it most is that 508 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 2: you literally randomly select people from the community, but you're 509 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 2: sent them at a table and are room much like this, 510 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: and they only progress to the next stage when they 511 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 2: all come to an agreement, all right, So they need 512 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: to have the conversations to make each other feel okay, 513 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: and it takes time, but ultimately what you get is 514 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: these six hundred people or so many come together and 515 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: hand over and then going we all think this is 516 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 2: a great idea, and because they've been randomly selected from 517 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: across the community, it truly is an indication of how 518 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 2: the community feels, and sometimes it's very different what has 519 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: been assumed it is. 520 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 4: And I think they've used this for those people who 521 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 4: haven't been following this. They've used this in places like Ireland, 522 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 4: to deal with a controversial issue in a Catholic country 523 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 4: of abortion, and they use that process of saying look, 524 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 4: you know, of bringing people together, listening and coming to 525 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 4: a consensus view to actually reform abortion laws in Taiwan. 526 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 4: They've done incredible work actually doing this really at scale, 527 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 4: actually engaging people because I had I think it was 528 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 4: a nine percent trust in politicians and democracy, and that's 529 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 4: because politicians and democracy seem so far away. But if 530 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,639 Speaker 4: you're listening and bringing people together and they have a 531 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 4: voice and they actually but they also they can't just 532 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 4: you know, shout from the rooftops. They actually have to 533 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: listen to other people have different views and moderate and 534 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 4: find common ground. Then I think we have an opportunity 535 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 4: to do this better. So I'm excited by what amplifies 536 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 4: doing this. I'm really pushing this idea and these sorts 537 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 4: of concepts in the Parliament because we need to find 538 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 4: different ways of actually having the conversation across the country, 539 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 4: not just in our bubble. 540 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 2: The tailwine these things very interesting because you know, they're 541 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 2: using a very very interesting digital platform po l L 542 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 2: dot I police. It allows at scale, like thousands of 543 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 2: people to come together and come to an idea, and 544 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 2: it has increased the trust in politicians enormously. Our governmental 545 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 2: system was designed for like when the fastest message could 546 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: be sent on horseback, and they vaguely adapted to when 547 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 2: the news came twice a day, once printed out that 548 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: you read over your cup of tea and your cigi, 549 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 2: and once at six pm, and then only the eight 550 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,479 Speaker 2: stories that made it on the three different channels, and 551 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 2: that was all the news of the day. 552 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 3: And that's how we've made out decisions. 553 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,640 Speaker 2: What kind of things do you think we could implement 554 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: solutions that have worked overseas that we could implement here. 555 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 4: So something I did the other day at a small 556 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 4: local level was just get one hundred people in a 557 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 4: room on an issue, and then in groups of ten 558 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 4: you get them to make some of the trade offs. 559 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,880 Speaker 4: And so I think, actually, just at that local level, 560 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 4: I think is really really important. But I do think 561 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 4: in you know, we should be looking at these more 562 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 4: of the digital solutions because in places like Taiwan, they've 563 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,360 Speaker 4: literally engaged you know, I was listening actually a podcast 564 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 4: about this. They send a text message to two hundred 565 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 4: thousand people saying what's your view on an issue? And 566 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 4: then they randomly select maybe four hundred of those people 567 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 4: to come together and talk to in small groups around 568 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,719 Speaker 4: these issues, to listen and learn from each other, and 569 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 4: then try and sort of come together on different solutions. 570 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 4: I think that's super exciting. So I think we need 571 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 4: to look at both the digital ways, which I know 572 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 4: is of amplifiers looking at, but I also think we 573 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 4: need to make sure we do the personal ways and 574 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 4: those sorts of efforts at the community level as well. 575 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 2: I'm someone who I appreciate and a relish possibility, and 576 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: the idea of using that technology for that purpose seems 577 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 2: a far more clever idea than sending text messages saying 578 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 2: there's a vote of all legals coming keep our borders safe, 579 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 2: vote liberal today on election day? Do you remember getting 580 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 2: that text? I only spat out my sausage. You talked 581 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: about citizens assemblies. What issues particularly do you think you'd 582 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: like to hear on a national level on a citizen's Assembly. 583 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 4: I think definitely has because of the tradeoffs and because 584 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 4: people are in different positions on this, I think we 585 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 4: could also do it on area I'm really interested in, tax. 586 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 4: You know, how do we make sure that the tax 587 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: system really works for each generation. How do we make 588 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 4: sure the tax system actually helps drive innovation, but also 589 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 4: how to make sure that the tax system also drives 590 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 4: climate action. I think that's an area where we could 591 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 4: definitely do it. It's in the tricky ones because you know, 592 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 4: when I talk to people, you know what I'm always 593 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 4: amazed in is, you know, there's a lot of subtlety 594 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 4: in people's views, and there's a lot of people accept 595 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 4: that these are quite difficult trade offs that have to 596 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 4: be made and not everyone gets everything they want. And 597 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 4: I think people are willing to have those conversations because. 598 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 2: The digital tools we were just speaking out well and 599 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 2: truly being used against democracy. Anyone that owns a phone 600 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: during the voice referendum would know this. You know, I 601 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: think I posted something and like, I'm getting six ten 602 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: comments a day from a post three weeks ago from 603 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 2: someone whose parents mister and missus six seven five five 604 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 2: five two were really really outraged that I was doing this. 605 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 2: And no, now, like it's very clearly some nefarious stuff 606 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 2: going on. How can we protect ourselves against these digital 607 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,479 Speaker 2: tools being used against us? 608 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, I mean I think again, looking at what 609 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,959 Speaker 4: happens overseas, there's this idea of pre bunking, saying okay, 610 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 4: if you know, for instance, if you're concerned that an 611 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: election you know, is going to be the results of 612 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 4: you're meddled with or you know meddled with or you 613 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 4: know undermined, you know, how do you prebunk? How do 614 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 4: you get out in advance evidence and sort of letting 615 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 4: people know, hey, this is going to this is probably 616 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 4: going to happen, but this is what we're doing about it. 617 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 4: And so I think getting getting involved in this, But 618 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 4: I think the truth is the more that your community 619 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 4: is engaged in politics and the more the more that 620 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 4: I think you have actually a greater chance of protecting 621 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 4: yourself against those things. 622 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 3: What was your experience as we got closer to the 623 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 3: Voice for referendum? 624 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 4: Look at when I saw a lot of a lot 625 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,479 Speaker 4: of misinformation, a lot of pieces out there, but we 626 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 4: don't we don't trust politicians, but we do trust our friends. 627 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,239 Speaker 4: And so I think this is where actually again the 628 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 4: power of you know, if you care about something, you 629 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 4: can make a big difference by talking to the people 630 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 4: you know about this and sharing that knowledge and also 631 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 4: you know, and being armed like and I think for 632 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 4: our kids again, the point is for them to not 633 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 4: just feel like they're sort of passive consumers, but get 634 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 4: them armed and get them interested, get them involved. That's 635 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 4: the power. 636 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: It was a colossal swing from what was overwhelmingly yes 637 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: to know what do we not know? What do we 638 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: not know about what was going on for that to happen. 639 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 4: Certainly some of the advertising that happened was there, But 640 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 4: I mean there are so many different reasons why I 641 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 4: think the voice went unfortunately, was wasn't successful. And you know, 642 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 4: I was a big supporter of that, and I think, 643 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 4: you know, if I look at you know, Wentworth really 644 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 4: voted yes. Why do I think we voted yes? Partly 645 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 4: is you know, the community we are, But partly is 646 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 4: also you know, we were really active. We had you know, 647 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 4: a thousand volunteers out in the community having those conversations. 648 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 4: And I think that actually really that mobilized. The biggest 649 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 4: lesson actually I took is is you know those final 650 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 4: polls that showed that despite some of the misinformation, Aboriginal 651 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 4: torostrat is under people in remote and regional communities overwhelmingly 652 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 4: voted for this, and so that message that Aboriginal Toros 653 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 4: straight Islander people want a want to say on policies 654 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 4: that particularly affect them is one that we can't lose, 655 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 4: even though the voice didn't pass. And that's because it 656 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 4: just makes sense. You know, there's no point trying to 657 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 4: help someone or do something that's in theory meant to 658 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 4: support someone if you don't ask them effort it's actually 659 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 4: what they need, because if it's not what they need, 660 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 4: you know, you get your hide waight to nothing. And 661 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 4: we've had that literally for generations. 662 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but when we were getting 663 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: closer and close out referendum, I the issue aside how 664 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 2: easily manipulated it was, and it was all above board, 665 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 2: you know, made me worry for the security of our 666 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: democracy of what we have here in Australia as we're 667 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: heading towards another election. You mentioned advertising before, and you've 668 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 2: talked about money in politics. What you know you have 669 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 2: this idea of like we've got to sort this, do 670 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 2: optly out, it's not good for anybody. Finance reform, campaign 671 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 2: finance reform where you know you've been trying to make. 672 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 3: Some moves there. 673 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, and look, I think we will see legislation on this. 674 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 4: I think it's about transparency. Where's the money coming from 675 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 4: this of limits. I think on the level of pay 676 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 4: Clive Palmer and one hundred million dollars, that's a lot 677 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 4: of money from one, yeah, one Senate seat, there's a 678 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 4: huge investment. And then also lies in political advertising. But yeah, 679 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 4: those are some of the areas that I think we 680 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 4: really do need to see elector reform, but also making 681 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 4: sure that different people can stand. And for me, the 682 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 4: main point is that you know, competition's good, whether it's 683 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 4: between supermarkets or anywhere else. Nobody wants this of calls 684 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 4: and will worse of politics to be the only choices 685 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 4: out there. And I think it's really important that whatever 686 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 4: we do, and there will be reforms in this parliament, 687 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 4: still make sure that people from different backgrounds and different 688 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 4: you know, parties and different you know, new kind of 689 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 4: groups can also stand. I think that shakes things up 690 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 4: and that's a good thing. 691 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,760 Speaker 3: How would you describe the dooptly up close? 692 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 4: The win is the politics. I'll try and look at 693 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,479 Speaker 4: each issue on each issue's merits and you know, and 694 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 4: I'm sure in my community there are a bunch of 695 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,479 Speaker 4: issues where people don't agree with me, but I do 696 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 4: try and have a strong reason for that. A sort 697 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 4: of rationale, considered stakeholders, all those pieces. I think, you know, 698 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 4: the great fear people have, and the fear I've seen 699 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 4: up close, is that the win is actually the political win, 700 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 4: it's not actually the policy win. So if you can, 701 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 4: if you can make a political point, it's worth it, 702 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 4: even if it's actually it means nothing at all in 703 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 4: a policy level. And I think that's that's the most 704 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 4: disappointing part. And I think that's the piece, you know, 705 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 4: we constantly have to kind of come back to, which 706 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 4: is about This isn't about you know, politics and about 707 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 4: someone's career and whether they can be a cabinet minister. 708 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 4: This has got to be about what's good for us 709 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,800 Speaker 4: on a long term basis, what is backed by the evidence, 710 00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 4: backed by the experts, but also informed by community views. 711 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 4: That's what people I think are seeking, and that's you know, 712 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 4: certainly why I got into politics. 713 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 2: We need to take a quick commercial Breakwolfgang. We're going 714 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,839 Speaker 2: to play some ads here say that load. 715 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: They got to play some ads. 716 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to play some ads. You and a 717 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: bunch of your colleagues got in at the same time 718 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 2: and certainly put the wind up the incumbents who have 719 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: been working quite hard to keep control of the situation though. 720 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: I mean Gie used to play water poland we were 721 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 2: across the harbor at some super hoity toity school and 722 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,360 Speaker 2: it was a grand final and a couple of calls 723 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 2: went the other team's way. It was like, come on, ref, 724 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: what's going on? Then we figured out the ref is 725 00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 2: the other team's coach. 726 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 3: Hang on it. What does that come close to. 727 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 2: Describing the fiddlery that's going on around trying to stifle 728 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 2: the cross bench. 729 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 4: I think some days, yes, that's certainly it feels like that, 730 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 4: and it's also you know it's it really does. But 731 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 4: you I think the thing you still come back to 732 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 4: the power of the people, Like you know, if you can, 733 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 4: if you can play all those games, but if you 734 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 4: can work with your community, that's what mate matters really 735 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:26,720 Speaker 4: the most. 736 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: But to the point where stifling like changing who gets 737 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 2: to speak on the day, because we've got control all 738 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,919 Speaker 2: that kind of stuff, the kind of things are getting 739 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,919 Speaker 2: extacked against these individual exactly right, what. 740 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 3: Do we need to know? What kind of things is happening? 741 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 3: What do we need to know about it? 742 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,239 Speaker 4: Look, I think it's actually a lot of it's the 743 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 4: shouting down so you do get just just the behavior 744 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 4: in Parliament, which is again stacked around you know, major 745 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 4: parties arguing with each other. But I think actually pulling 746 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 4: back the curtain on that is is really powerful. And 747 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 4: then it's also about you know, access to sort of information, 748 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 4: like Anthony Albanezi decides how many staff you get, and 749 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 4: it's like, well, you know he doesn't you know, he 750 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 4: doesn't want annoying cross bench. It's actually one of the 751 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 4: first things he ever did was say, you know what, 752 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 4: we're not going to give you too many stuff. And 753 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 4: I think that's on the basis of you know, making 754 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 4: sure that we can't you know, do you know if 755 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,959 Speaker 4: we don't give you many staff, or maybe you won't 756 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 4: be able to do as much as as you otherwise 757 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 4: would like to. And so we've just pushed back on 758 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 4: then you know, us volunteers, you know, raise money in 759 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 4: other ways because you know, I'm not coming to Parliament 760 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 4: and then just you know, get get told well, I'm sorry, 761 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 4: you don't have the resources to do your job properly. 762 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 4: You've got to find different ways. 763 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: And by the resources, we're talking like okay, so I've 764 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 2: got this proposed bill, I'm going to need to take 765 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 2: time to actually scrutinize it exactly right and go through it. Yeah, 766 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 2: so I can come back to you and go, hang 767 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 2: on a second, here, this it's not so good. Twenty 768 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 2: instagraunt doesn't look like this graph is not real. Yeah, 769 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 2: but if you don't have the resources, you can't. 770 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:48,359 Speaker 4: You can't do it. But that's what we're incredible. We've 771 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,400 Speaker 4: got the Lee lucky to have amazing volunteers you know, 772 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 4: who help us on that who help us on for instance, 773 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 4: you know we you know refugees and and you know 774 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 4: people whose visas have been stuck, people who actual helping 775 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 4: out of the goodness of their heart. Our office try 776 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 4: and deal with those community issues as well and actually 777 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,320 Speaker 4: just be a good local member. 778 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: We talked about having conversations with people that are uncomfortable. 779 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but there's been no more 780 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,439 Speaker 2: an uncomfortable conversation I have since October the seventh last 781 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: year than what happened on October the seventh last year, 782 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,280 Speaker 2: and what has happened since. You can't avoid these conversations 783 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 2: that I have been I don't know about you, but 784 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: I've been self editing more than I ever have. I 785 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 2: avoid conversations with people that I know that I love, 786 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 2: I value O friendship, and so I'm worried that if 787 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 2: I have a conversation and say things that are on 788 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 2: my mind, I might ever speak to them again. We're 789 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 2: seeing the results of what happens when we don't have 790 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: these hard conversations. You are your constituency is one of 791 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 2: the largest populations of a Jewish community in Australia. 792 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 3: Second Aliener in Melbourne. 793 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 2: You want a fairer you campaign on fair and more 794 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,400 Speaker 2: inclusive society. What do we need to know about the 795 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,839 Speaker 2: kind of conversations that you are having and. 796 00:37:58,800 --> 00:37:59,799 Speaker 3: What I should should ask? 797 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 2: What have you had to get better at to have 798 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 2: the kind of confidence and conversations with people who are 799 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 2: for very good reason terrifying and people who are for 800 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 2: very good reason outraged. 801 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 4: Two words that come to mind are humility and compassion. 802 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,840 Speaker 4: It's an incredibly difficult conflict. It is playing out in 803 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 4: Australia in ways that are awful and are hurting many people. 804 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:27,760 Speaker 4: And I think really starting from that basis, I actually 805 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 4: had dinner last night with some friends who had some 806 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 4: Lebanese friends and some Jewish friends, and we had someone 807 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 4: that we were talking about the conflict overseas, and you know, 808 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,360 Speaker 4: the truth is that this affects many Australians in a personal, friends, 809 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,360 Speaker 4: family way, and so this, you know, it's is that 810 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 4: sort of humility and compassion. And there's that old expression. 811 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 4: You've got, you know, two ears and one mouth, and 812 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,360 Speaker 4: you should use them in those In that proportion is 813 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 4: first trying to seek to understand where people are coming 814 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 4: from and then to be understood. I think in terms 815 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 4: of how to as a country stay together, we need 816 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 4: to listen first to each other, and then I think 817 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 4: we also need to look at how do we as 818 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 4: a country stay true to what makes Australia special. And 819 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 4: one of those is that you are welcome here regardless 820 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 4: of background. As I said, I represent the biggest Jewish community, 821 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 4: one of the biggest Jeish communities in the country. Had 822 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 4: a big group of students together the other day and 823 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 4: I was asking them what's important to them, and two 824 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 4: Jewish students talk said, you know, anti Semitism, because they 825 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 4: were walking down the street. They're scared to where their 826 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 4: uniforms and you know, a guy sort of pulled over 827 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,840 Speaker 4: and basically, you know, swore of them for being Jewish. 828 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,360 Speaker 4: You can have whatever view you want in the conflict, 829 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 4: but you can also say, you know what, that is 830 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 4: not okay in this country. We as a country need 831 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 4: to come back to be strong on our values and 832 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 4: we need to listen and learn and it is really hard. 833 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 4: And lastly, it's some of the you know, some of 834 00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 4: my the sort of local rabbis were talking to me 835 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 4: about experience of actually sitting down and talking to sort 836 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 4: of Palestinian and Muslim people and they're just listening to 837 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 4: each other. They're not even necessarily trying to resolve these 838 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 4: or you know, change each other's minds on issues. What 839 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 4: they're doing is listening. And this rabbi was saying, this 840 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 4: is uncomfortable, it's not easy to do, but I know that, 841 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 4: you know, this is what we as a country need 842 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 4: to do. We need to be able to listen to 843 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 4: each other. We need to go out to create spaces 844 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 4: where we can have discussions and retain our ability, you know, 845 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 4: to have relationships. And you know, we're trying to work 846 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 4: on doing some of that in my community and building 847 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 4: empathy and understanding, and I think it's it's really important. 848 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 4: Right now. 849 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to mess up the quote, but the 850 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 2: former Prime Minister of Israel. It's Agribbin. He got was 851 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 2: assassinated by someone on the right, Jewish go on the right. 852 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 2: Someone was upset to him for speaking or having dialogue 853 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 2: with a Palestinian leaders leadership. 854 00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 3: So how do you talk to the enemy? 855 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: So the only way you have, he says, by talking 856 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 2: to the enemy like this is it like you have 857 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 2: to have conversations as difficult and uncomfortable as they are. 858 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 2: They Well, I'm glad that your job is to have 859 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 2: those conversations, as I'm terrible at them. 860 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 4: It's really hard, it's incredibly hard, and you know, and 861 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 4: I know it's I know that you know I disappoint 862 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 4: and offend, and you know I have all sorts of people, 863 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 4: have all sorts of views, and what I say and 864 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 4: what I don't say and what I should say, and 865 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,800 Speaker 4: you know, and but I'm trying to still listen and learn. 866 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 4: And except that I've made all sorts of mistakes in this. 867 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 2: You mentioned earlier, being the CEO of this renewable energy 868 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 2: company which put these you know, half a giglore on 869 00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 2: the on the roof. Founder is to say, how does 870 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 2: this job compare to your most intense days? You know, 871 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 2: as the GM of a massive fashion retail vampire and 872 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,560 Speaker 2: you know, a thousand kind of nuances of lease agreements 873 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 2: all over the country and supply chains and you know, 874 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 2: dealing with the stuff that happens here. How does this 875 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 2: job compare with your life in the private sector? 876 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 4: Look, I think so I used to run a fashion company. 877 00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 4: It was in clear and fashion basically, you know, if 878 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 4: you did something well, you'd watch sales go up. If 879 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 4: you did something badly, you watch sales go down. As 880 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 4: really immediate and in some ways much clearer the lines 881 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,800 Speaker 4: now of driving change, they're harder. You need more people involved. 882 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,720 Speaker 4: You know, it's a bigger canvas. You're talking about changes 883 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 4: across the country and so it's less immediate. But I 884 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 4: think what I love about the job the most is 885 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 4: the diversity, and it's all the different people that you meet. 886 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 4: You know, I talked about you know, Elizabeth Young and 887 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 4: the dementia person I spoke, you know, I was yesterday. 888 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 4: I was being briefed on, you know, the tech industry 889 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 4: and how does innovation work in that space and how 890 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 4: does that affect you? You know, how does that is 891 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 4: driven by superannuation laws? You know, I took to a 892 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,840 Speaker 4: lot of economists. But then I will you speak to 893 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 4: local age care provider and some of the challenges they're facing, 894 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 4: or you know, go and visit a childcare So that's 895 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 4: that's the joy and the challenge of the job is 896 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 4: the breadth the range of people you meet and the 897 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 4: range of issues you have to deal with. 898 00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 3: What are people not realize about the workload of this job? 899 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 4: That's huge. You can do this job twenty four to 900 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,280 Speaker 4: seven and still not be done. So I think it's 901 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 4: also about then prioritizing what are the issues that you 902 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 4: care the most about and how do you focus on those, 903 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 4: but also the issues frankly your community cares the most about, 904 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,800 Speaker 4: and making sure that you're listening to them on those issues. 905 00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 2: There's a thing that happens and YouTube people who are 906 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,359 Speaker 2: far more successful than may call audience capture where they 907 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 2: see the download numbers go up if they start saying 908 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,240 Speaker 2: outlandish stuff, and so they keep doing outland your stuff 909 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 2: even though it's. 910 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,319 Speaker 3: Not true to who they are. 911 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 2: And I'm sure that can kind of creep in when 912 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 2: it comes time to election time again, how do you 913 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 2: insulate yourself from that? 914 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 4: I think that is really hard because, as I said, 915 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,360 Speaker 4: you know, outrage saying, you know, saying things that sound 916 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 4: good but aren't real is extremely tempting, I think in politics, 917 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 4: because you get rewarded for it. And so I think, actually, 918 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 4: you know, someone said to me, you know, it's actually 919 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 4: trying to stay true. Actually, my sister in law was 920 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,960 Speaker 4: saying she'd met someone who said, you know what, I 921 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 4: don't always agree with Allegra, but you know she does 922 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 4: have you know, I think that she's actually thought through 923 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,560 Speaker 4: and tries to articulate reasonable reasons for things. And I'm 924 00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 4: like that that is something I'm such a compliment. It's like, 925 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 4: that's what I'm actually trying to do. I'm trying to 926 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 4: hold onto that. And so I think you just have 927 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,560 Speaker 4: to try and hold onto your values. And this happens 928 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,799 Speaker 4: in many different jobs. Like you know, you do have 929 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,720 Speaker 4: to hold on to your values because there are always 930 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 4: you know, temptations in business, no doubt in trowviz. You know, 931 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 4: all these things that will draw you away from what 932 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 4: you think are the right way of doing things, and 933 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 4: you kind of have to keep on being pulled back. 934 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 4: I think to those values. 935 00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,120 Speaker 2: When it comes to doing an intense job like yours, 936 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 2: you probably have to work on your coping mechanisms. I 937 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,080 Speaker 2: was at an event Camber not long ago, and David Pocock 938 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 2: is clearly making time every day to punish some barbells. 939 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:55,359 Speaker 1: Just resist. 940 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 2: His tailor is busy right the geometry to make sure 941 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:00,520 Speaker 2: he's such fit isy static. 942 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:01,839 Speaker 1: Do you get? 943 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 3: Do you make? Yeah? 944 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 2: I guess you have to make time. You have to 945 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 2: deliberately program time to look after yourself. 946 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 4: I think that's right. So I run every almost every day. 947 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 4: That's how I keep mentally on top of things. Actually 948 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 4: like it is the most important sort of mental health 949 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 4: regime I have. But also I think one of the 950 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,279 Speaker 4: things you have in politics is you know, you need 951 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 4: to be able to listen to criticism, listen to perspectives, 952 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 4: and then still come back to what do you believe? 953 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 4: And I think you do need to build that resilience. 954 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,359 Speaker 4: You know that people, you know, certainly online people can 955 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,720 Speaker 4: be absolutely foul. I don't read most of the comments, 956 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 4: so I think that's one advice people gave me. And 957 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 4: listen to people's views, but you have to kind of 958 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 4: come back to why is this important? Why do you care? 959 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:47,879 Speaker 4: And you kind of kind of keep have to keep 960 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,720 Speaker 4: on coming back to that centered piece but also sometimes 961 00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,840 Speaker 4: you're wrong, Like sometimes I'm wrong, and I need to 962 00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 4: be able to hear that and need to be able 963 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:56,279 Speaker 4: to say, you know what, I think I made the 964 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,600 Speaker 4: wrong decision here and actually accept that. 965 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:04,480 Speaker 2: Just on the the running thing once again, Andrew Hubeman, 966 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,600 Speaker 2: who makes a podcast, he published his workout plan, like 967 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 2: this is what I do. What's the allegraspender MP workout plan? Yeah, 968 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,399 Speaker 2: you know how many what's the volume that you're talking about? 969 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,520 Speaker 3: What's the distance I do? 970 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 4: Sort of I probably do five to ten k's matt 971 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 4: five or six days a week, and so I just 972 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,279 Speaker 4: basically get up in the morning and go for a run, 973 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,359 Speaker 4: just because running is the simplest thing you can do. 974 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 4: You just need to put on your shoes, head out 975 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 4: the door and then and come back. So so yeah, 976 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:33,560 Speaker 4: that's that's basically way to do it. 977 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:34,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. 978 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 4: I listened halftimes half the time, to podcasts, half the 979 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 4: time to music, so and I'm very sort of daggy 980 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 4: in my music, Like it's sort of I've just rediscovered maniac, 981 00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 4: which I think is from flashdowns and that's not very cool, 982 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,240 Speaker 4: but it is really fun. 983 00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 2: When you're at seven k's and it's two degrees in 984 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,919 Speaker 2: camera and you're like, I'm not going to get an uber, 985 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to keep finish this say. 986 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,280 Speaker 4: Often it will start with the podcast and go okay, 987 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 4: that podcast and take me twenty minutes. Then I get 988 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,760 Speaker 4: to listen to sort of you know, sort of poppy music. 989 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,640 Speaker 4: And now my daughters are like filling my feed with 990 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,840 Speaker 4: all sorts of Taylor Swift and everything else. So this 991 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:10,920 Speaker 4: is now all coming into. 992 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,680 Speaker 2: My vietailer Swift. I've got Megan the Stallion. Very different, 993 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 2: very very different. Speaking of your family, you mentioned it, 994 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 2: what's the what do we need to know at the 995 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,680 Speaker 2: cost of this job on your family? 996 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 4: You know, like a lot of jobs. Look, it's got 997 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 4: a cost to me. It's the and the kids and 998 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 4: my husband. We've got it's about eighteen weeks in parliament 999 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 4: Monday to Thursdays, so that's it's a fair amount. It's 1000 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,359 Speaker 4: just under a third of the year, so it's a 1001 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,680 Speaker 4: non zero costs. It's pretty significant. But I also kind 1002 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 4: of I know that there are a lot of people 1003 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,920 Speaker 4: out there who work overnight, who do all these other jobs, 1004 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 4: who you don't have very big responsibilities and just you know, 1005 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 4: and just give a lot to their work as well, 1006 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 4: So you know, I chose to do it, and what 1007 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,280 Speaker 4: I try and do is create a lot of boundaries 1008 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,799 Speaker 4: around it. Go okay, during the week in when I'm 1009 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,560 Speaker 4: in Sydney, I then go out to Night's a week 1010 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 4: for work. You know, I only do so many hours 1011 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 4: on the weekend on events and stuff like that. And 1012 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 4: it doesn't mean I have to say no to things. 1013 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 4: But I also need to make sure that I can 1014 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 4: go to my kids basketball game and you know all 1015 00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:12,959 Speaker 4: those other stuff as well. 1016 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 3: You can't. 1017 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 2: There's no money that can pay for you to be 1018 00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:20,319 Speaker 2: there when your kid either wins or losers and you 1019 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 2: talk to them about how to handle that, Like, you 1020 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 2: can't pay. 1021 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,800 Speaker 3: Anybody anything to do it to miss that moment. 1022 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 4: You've got to fund the balance. I do think you 1023 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 4: want people in politics who are trying to deal with 1024 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 4: the same challenges all of us are. And the truth 1025 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,480 Speaker 4: is that what is most important to most people is 1026 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 4: their friends and their families and the people they care about. 1027 00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:38,760 Speaker 4: And you know that's what people want you to protect 1028 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 4: when you get into politics. 1029 00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,320 Speaker 2: All right, last question you mentioned earlier. Politics is pretty 1030 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:49,040 Speaker 2: easy to play when you're using fear. As we're reactionary animals. 1031 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 2: We are alive because we're their justcends of the most 1032 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 2: jumpy ancestors. 1033 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:52,919 Speaker 3: That we had. 1034 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,560 Speaker 2: It's very hard to play when you're trading in possibility. 1035 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,360 Speaker 2: All right, but let's try what's kind of poss ability 1036 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 2: that we have as a country. 1037 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,160 Speaker 3: What are some things that you would like us to 1038 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 3: see that we could be. 1039 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 4: Look, I think we are a wonderful country. And I 1040 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,480 Speaker 4: know I always feel like I sound American when I'm 1041 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 4: saying we're one of the best countries in the world. 1042 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:13,840 Speaker 4: That we are, I think we genuinely are because I 1043 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,279 Speaker 4: can't think awhere else you know, you want to live. 1044 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 4: I think that we actually have all the values and 1045 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 4: we actually have the resources now to be able to 1046 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 4: live the values we want. I want us to be 1047 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 4: a place where, you know, where everyone can have a 1048 00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,800 Speaker 4: good life and you don't have to be the CEO. 1049 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,080 Speaker 4: You can be you know, someone who is caring for 1050 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 4: other people, someone who is you know, healthcare worker, childcare worker. 1051 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,000 Speaker 4: You can have a good life in this country, and 1052 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,360 Speaker 4: we've been that country. But we are losing that a 1053 00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,080 Speaker 4: bit at the moment. I think we have to come 1054 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,239 Speaker 4: back to that that you know you can have that 1055 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 4: I think we have to look at the future in 1056 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,160 Speaker 4: terms of the clean you know, of energy transition. 1057 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 2: Go. 1058 00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 4: This is an opportunity, not a threat. It's not going 1059 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 4: to be easy. We should have started a long time ago, 1060 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 4: you know. But we are a country. We are ingenious. 1061 00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 4: You know, we have incredible natural resources. You know, we've 1062 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,560 Speaker 4: got great some great wind you know, for this transition. 1063 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 4: You know, we can turn this, you know, can turn 1064 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:08,640 Speaker 4: this for us. And I think we can be a 1065 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,759 Speaker 4: country that you know, innovates. I mean, you and I 1066 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 4: were just in the green room with someone who's creating 1067 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 4: a heart out of als. This is coming out of 1068 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,799 Speaker 4: Sydney in Australia. Like, we have some of the most 1069 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,440 Speaker 4: thoughtful and exciting and innovative people in this country. And 1070 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 4: I think we need to back ourselves and lots of 1071 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,520 Speaker 4: look overseas and you know both you know, in sort 1072 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,160 Speaker 4: of innovation in culture. So I think we can sort 1073 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,239 Speaker 4: of really push ourselves further both to say we've got 1074 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,480 Speaker 4: good values, we've got a strong multicultural society. You know, 1075 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 4: people want what we've got. We've got to be proud 1076 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 4: of that, and I think we can build on it. 1077 00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 3: You're backing yourself to run again, Yeah, definitely. 1078 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:44,760 Speaker 4: Of course I'm running again. 1079 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 3: Happy to hear a respender. 1080 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,200 Speaker 4: Thank you very much exactly. 1081 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,680 Speaker 2: That was a leg responder. Thank you very much to 1082 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,960 Speaker 2: everybody that made that show happened. It was quite the 1083 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,359 Speaker 2: team at south By south West and the Legal Spenders team. 1084 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 2: We all work real hard to make that happen. On 1085 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:05,880 Speaker 2: the day, Monica Chapman did a lot to make it 1086 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 2: happen as well, So thank you all for making that occur. 1087 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't happen every day. 1088 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 2: You get a sitting MP, come all the way to Sydney, 1089 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,520 Speaker 2: sit down in front of a live crowd and have 1090 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,920 Speaker 2: a conversation like that, and I hope it gave you 1091 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,000 Speaker 2: a bit of a different perspective on what it is 1092 00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,880 Speaker 2: to do that job and the things you sacrifice to 1093 00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:23,959 Speaker 2: say yes to that job. The elections very very soon, 1094 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 2: Like I said, I would encourage you to check out 1095 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 2: the vote compass. 1096 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:29,319 Speaker 1: It's an extraordinary tool. 1097 00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,040 Speaker 2: And I would also encourage you to think about the 1098 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 2: policy that matters most to you. There's no wrong answers. 1099 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:36,480 Speaker 2: What's right for you is what's right for you. What's 1100 00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:37,759 Speaker 2: right for me is what's right for me. There's no 1101 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 2: wrong answers. 1102 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 1: We've got to go. 1103 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 2: We're gonna go meet Wealfy's big sister and maybe go 1104 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 2: to smoothie. 1105 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: What do you think? 1106 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,640 Speaker 2: No, what else are you going to do today? 1107 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:51,040 Speaker 1: Painting? 1108 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:51,359 Speaker 3: Oh? 1109 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,239 Speaker 2: That's good because I need the roof here done and 1110 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:54,799 Speaker 2: there was a bit on the wall over there. 1111 00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: Can I get you up a ladder? 1112 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 4: Yes? 1113 00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,160 Speaker 2: Are you talking about the kind of painting that involves 1114 00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,320 Speaker 2: pieces of paper and watercolor? Not house paint, house paint, 1115 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 2: house paint. 1116 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: Let's go. I can't wait. Mom's going to be thrilled. 1117 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,040 Speaker 1: Have an excellent week. 1118 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,240 Speaker 2: I'll see you back here Monday. 1119 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:10,640 Speaker 1: Bye.