WEBVTT - Part 1: Inside Elon Musk's takeover of the US government

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<v Speaker 1>And we're going to be signing a very important deal today.

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<v Speaker 2>It's DOGE, and I'm going to ask Elon to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you a little bit about it. Acolytes of Elon Musk,

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<v Speaker 2>working in the Department of Government Efficiency are currently gutting

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<v Speaker 2>the US government, with Elon Musk claiming he'll find savings

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<v Speaker 2>of up to two trillion dollars the deficit.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've got a two twellion dollars deficit and if

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<v Speaker 3>we don't do something about this deficit, country's going bankrupt.

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<v Speaker 2>Department by department, DOGE staff, mostly young men from the

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<v Speaker 2>tech world, are sacking federal workers and gaining access to

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<v Speaker 2>some of the government's most sensitive information. Victoria Elliott is

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<v Speaker 2>a reporter for Wired covering platforms and power. She's been

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<v Speaker 2>tracking the Silicon Valley figures for reshaping the US government

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<v Speaker 2>and finding out what it means for the future of

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<v Speaker 2>her country. From Schwartz Media, I'm Daniel James. This is

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<v Speaker 2>seven am. It's Monday, March seventeen, and this is part

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<v Speaker 2>one of a two part interview Victory. You've been following

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<v Speaker 2>the workings of the Department of Government Efficiency al Maustage

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<v Speaker 2>as it's been gutting the US government. Can you paint

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<v Speaker 2>me a picture of what's been happening.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, first things first, is that what we

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<v Speaker 1>think of as DOGE used to be the US Digital Service,

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<v Speaker 1>and when Trump was inaugurated, he transformed that into a

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<v Speaker 1>new thing, the US Doage Service.

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<v Speaker 2>We want to get it done.

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<v Speaker 3>This is an order creating and implementing the Department of

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<v Speaker 3>Governmental Efficiency known as DOGE.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's a big one.

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<v Speaker 1>And then within that they created a temporary organization which

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<v Speaker 1>gives them the ability to hire special government employees. So

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<v Speaker 1>those are people brought in unlimited term contracts, generally for

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<v Speaker 1>around one hundred and thirty days, and they not subject

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<v Speaker 1>to the same transparency requirements as regular government employees, and

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<v Speaker 1>sort of the expectation is that they're there for a

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<v Speaker 1>limited duration that can be paid or unpaid, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you know they'll leave. And what it means is that

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<v Speaker 1>you sort of have this whole group mostly made up

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<v Speaker 1>of what appear to be special government employees, going from

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<v Speaker 1>agency to agency, starting with the Office of Personnel Management

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<v Speaker 1>the PM, which is sort of the HR service of

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<v Speaker 1>the government, and the General Services Administration, which handles things

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<v Speaker 1>like its properties and it's it and moving from there

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<v Speaker 1>out into these other agencies accessing their data as these

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<v Speaker 1>organizations are also being asked to reduce their manpower by

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<v Speaker 1>the Trump administration.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so, who are these DOGE staffers that are being

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<v Speaker 2>brought in and who are the exactly made? Where are

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<v Speaker 2>I from? And how have I recruited?

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<v Speaker 1>So initially with the sort of DOGE strikeforce that we

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<v Speaker 1>first saw, we were really looking at people who were

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<v Speaker 1>connected to Silicon Valley, oftentimes through Musk. So for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas shed who's at GSA, he worked for Tesla. The

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<v Speaker 1>engineers that we found at the Federal Aviation Administration, they

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<v Speaker 1>came from SpaceX. And then you have some of these

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<v Speaker 1>younger guys who were twenty five and under. Some of

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<v Speaker 1>them came from other tech companies. These young engineers were

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<v Speaker 1>reportedly hand picked by Elon Musk, and the oldest is

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<v Speaker 1>just twenty five years old, and some of them are

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<v Speaker 1>reportedly still in college. Seems like a recent high school

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<v Speaker 1>graduate is determining whether.

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<v Speaker 4>Career civil servants have sufficiently justified their jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>And Elon Musk has helping him. Mrs Young as nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>years old. They're very smart, located, they're like you.

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<v Speaker 1>They're very smart thing. Others of them came from interning

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<v Speaker 1>with SpaceX, another from Pallenteer, which is run by Peter Teel,

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<v Speaker 1>who is a close Musk ally. He runs Palenteer, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a big a company that has billions of dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in government contracts, particularly with the military. And then outside

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<v Speaker 1>of Musk and his companies and the companies of his allies,

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<v Speaker 1>we're also seeing, you know, now as things have progressed,

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<v Speaker 1>more and more lawyers who are sort of more traditionally

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<v Speaker 1>Trump alined, people like people from the Heritage Foundation, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a conservative think tank, you know, people who are

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<v Speaker 1>backed by those entities. So DOUGE is technical staff, and

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<v Speaker 1>then on top of that, what we're now seeing is

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<v Speaker 1>sort of an expansion of its legal heft.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk to me about the excess that these staff as

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<v Speaker 2>have been receiving to do this task of cutting government waste,

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<v Speaker 2>as the administration would put it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So what we do know is that they are

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<v Speaker 1>getting into very sensitive systems. And so, for instance, at

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<v Speaker 1>the Treasury, we knew that one of the DOGE members,

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<v Speaker 1>Marco Ales, had access to really sensitive payment systems and

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<v Speaker 1>Treasury for those who are not in the US, you

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<v Speaker 1>know that controls like you know, getting your tax refunds

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<v Speaker 1>Social Security. We're looking at about six trillion dollars worth

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<v Speaker 1>of payments process through that system every year, and ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>like having someone in that system means they could have

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<v Speaker 1>theoretically turned that off.

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<v Speaker 4>We also have some breaking news this morning. We've talked

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<v Speaker 4>earlier in the show about USAID. It's uncertain fate. We've

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<v Speaker 4>just confirmed an email went out early this morning to

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<v Speaker 4>staff saying do not come in. Headquarters will be closed

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<v Speaker 4>this morning. You have to work remotely where and Elon

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<v Speaker 4>Musk is saying in his face is last night so

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<v Speaker 4>that Donald Trump agreed with him to shut down the

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<v Speaker 4>entire agency.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the big things that you know, we can

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<v Speaker 1>already see is with USAID. You know, that is an

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<v Speaker 1>agency that is created by and funded by Congress, that's

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<v Speaker 1>already been determined, people have voted on, and that's what

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<v Speaker 1>our budget is for. And the idea that DOGE could

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<v Speaker 1>go in basically shut off payments for that and shutter

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<v Speaker 1>the agency that has manifold effects and that changes people's lives.

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<v Speaker 1>There are people in other parts of the world who

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<v Speaker 1>will not receive medicine, will not receive food because the

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<v Speaker 1>US is not sending money that it had promised to.

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<v Speaker 2>Send coming up after the break. Job cuts won't save

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<v Speaker 2>a trillion dollars? So what else is in the firing line? Hi?

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<v Speaker 5>Ruby Jones. Here, seven Am tells stories that need to

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<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about the wave of government layoffs and cuts

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<v Speaker 2>that have been undertaged as part of this DOGE project.

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<v Speaker 2>What have we seen so far in terms of cuts

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<v Speaker 2>to employees and government layoffs.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we've seen a lot of riffs production enforces. All

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<v Speaker 1>the agencies were required to send in riff plans for

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<v Speaker 1>how they're going to cut staff. So even if the

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<v Speaker 1>riff hasn't happened yet, there are major plans to cut

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<v Speaker 1>staffing in government. And then of course we saw the

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<v Speaker 1>buyout offer, which you know told people you know, if

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<v Speaker 1>you agree to take a buyout, you'll get paid through September,

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<v Speaker 1>et cetera, which is I think particularly difficult because that's

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<v Speaker 1>something that Musk also did when he took over Twitter,

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<v Speaker 1>and as it turned out, a lot of former Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>employees had to fight tooth and nail for that agreement

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<v Speaker 1>to be honored after they left. And then on top

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<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, we're seeing thousands and thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>federal workers leave because this is demoralizing because even if

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<v Speaker 1>they are maybe not being targeted right now with reductions,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't want to work in this environment or they feel,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, morally uncomfortable working in this environment. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think we're seeing a massive reduction in the federal workforce

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<v Speaker 1>at a rate that we probably haven't seen, at least

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<v Speaker 1>not that I can remember in my lifetime.

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<v Speaker 2>So Himes will tripping the headcamt site because Dige is

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<v Speaker 2>promising the cut one, potentially two trillion dollars from the

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<v Speaker 2>federal budget, and where else will Dodge fond the sightings

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<v Speaker 2>that they're promising.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, here's the thing. Two trillion dollars is more than

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<v Speaker 1>the entire discretionary budget in twenty twenty three, and by

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<v Speaker 1>that I mean the budget ballparks around seven trillion dollars,

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<v Speaker 1>and most of that is locked in. It is entitlement spending,

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<v Speaker 1>so Medicare, Medicaid, social Security, it's interest on debt, and

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<v Speaker 1>some of its military spending. Everything else, whether that's USAID,

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<v Speaker 1>the Department of Energy, or the National Institutes of Health,

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<v Speaker 1>every other government service is in that one point seven

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<v Speaker 1>trillion of discretionary funds. So initially Musk said they were

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<v Speaker 1>going to try and put two trillion. It's now down

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<v Speaker 1>to one trillion. But even then, you're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>get into that without doing things like cutting social Security,

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<v Speaker 1>cutting retired people's benefits. And there's a reason that Musk

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<v Speaker 1>has now recently sort of started floating language around how

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<v Speaker 1>maybe those sort of benefits need to be curtailed.

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<v Speaker 3>Which is most of the federal spending is entitlements. So

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<v Speaker 3>that's like the big one to eliminate is that that's

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<v Speaker 3>the sort of half trillion, maybe sixcess seven hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>Billion a year.

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<v Speaker 1>A thing that I think a lot about is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>Musc will go on Twitter and be like, oh, we

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<v Speaker 1>were spending five million dollars on you know, insert name

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<v Speaker 1>of project. That sounds really stupid or wasteful right, five

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars, But five million dollars compared to seven trillion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars is nothing. Foreign aid, for instance, constitutes less than

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<v Speaker 1>one percent of the US budget, less than one percent.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like going to the airport with an overstuffed bag

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<v Speaker 1>and when they tell you I'm so sorry your bag

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<v Speaker 1>is overweight, you say, I'll just take out my underwear.

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<v Speaker 1>It will make no difference. You will still pay that

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<v Speaker 1>overcharge fee and you will not have underwear. Giving people

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<v Speaker 1>the raw numbers in that way is misleading, because of course,

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<v Speaker 1>any normal American who makes sixty five thousand dollars a

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<v Speaker 1>year is going to think wasting five million dollars on

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<v Speaker 1>some country that they've never been to feel stupid. But

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for someone like Musk, who is a centi

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<v Speaker 1>billionaire who has hundreds of billions of dollars, even for him,

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<v Speaker 1>five million dollars is nothing. He could say, he could

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<v Speaker 1>fund that whole program. So I think it's really misleading,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that's all sort of part of the game.

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<v Speaker 2>This is part one of that interview with WAD reporter

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<v Speaker 2>Victoria Elliott. In part two, we find out the reel

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<v Speaker 2>end game for Doje and Ela Musk.

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<v Speaker 1>Musk has spent several years talking about how quote unquote

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<v Speaker 1>unelected bureaucrats are the problem. But for someone like Musk

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<v Speaker 1>and many other people in Silicon Valley many other rich people,

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<v Speaker 1>those unelected bureaucrats are also the people that enforce rules.

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<v Speaker 1>They tack them, they investigate them when their companies do

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<v Speaker 1>something wrong. Musk and people like him benefit from these

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<v Speaker 1>agencies being gutted, specifically because they no longer have the

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<v Speaker 1>power to keep businesses like his in check.

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<v Speaker 2>Part two is in your feed right now. Look for

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<v Speaker 2>what happens to America if DODE succeeds. I'm Daniel James.

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<v Speaker 2>This is seven am. Thanks for listening.