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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Mentor and I'm Mark Boris.

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Speaker 2: Jason Dimmon, Welcome to the Mentor, Mate, Thanks very much,

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Speaker 2: looking forward to having this chat.

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Speaker 1: Good to see you again. I didn't get to talk

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Speaker 1: to you much in was and it was in Vegas

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Speaker 1: when the ENERL launch was on for the Vegas round

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Speaker 1: opening round.

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Speaker 2: I don't think either it's got too much of a chance.

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Speaker 2: It was so much happening down there. It was pretty

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Speaker 2: cool though, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was fun, really exciting, like massive energy in places

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Speaker 1: like that, like huge amount of energy. And swift x

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Speaker 1: is of course, which is USCL swift x. I should

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Speaker 1: have said that earlier, but swift x is one of

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Speaker 1: the NRL's sponsors.

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Speaker 2: We're really enjoying that sponsorship. You know, it's a great

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Speaker 2: it's a great code. They really get into it, and

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Speaker 2: a lot a lot of our customers, you know obviously

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Speaker 2: in r L fans. So yeah, really enjoying it.

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Speaker 1: So cryptocurrency exchange, which is what Swiftexas. We'll have to

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Speaker 1: break that down because not everybody knows what and exchange is.

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Speaker 1: Not everybody really understands what cryptocurrency is. Other than that

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Speaker 1: it's a word that's getting thrown around all of these days.

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Speaker 1: But these exchanges, of course had a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a drama. Not your one, but others in particular one

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Speaker 1: in America had a bit of a drama two years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about right. It's two years ago. Look, it's

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Speaker 2: an exciting industry and it's only been around for fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: Probably the last four or five. People have really started

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Speaker 2: to get into it. They really got into it for COVID.

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Speaker 2: But to let people know, I mean, ultimately crypto a

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Speaker 2: digital currency. There's probably about thirty or forty thousand of

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Speaker 2: them out there. We only have four hundred and fifty

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Speaker 2: of them listed on our exchange. And basically, people have

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Speaker 2: their cash, come to us, deposit their cash with us,

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Speaker 2: and we go globally and source the crypto for them

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Speaker 2: and put it into their wallet, and then they can

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Speaker 2: retain that as an investment or they can trade on

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Speaker 2: that crypto. In simple terms, that's what we do.

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Speaker 1: It's you have good like a stock exchange sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: It's the new age stock exchange. It's the digital stock

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Speaker 2: exchange for digital assets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And whereas the stock exchange is the exchange for

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Speaker 1: listed shares in the stock exchange is the exchange for

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Speaker 1: shares in listed companies probably a better way of putting

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Speaker 1: it that are on there sub to the A six rules.

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Speaker 1: But I will go through. Just get you to step

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Speaker 1: us through that at a moment. But let's just a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a chat about yourself for a moment.

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Speaker 1: How long you been the CEO of swift swift.

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Speaker 2: X twelve months as CEO of there for twelve months

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Speaker 2: earlier than that, starting to work with the guys on

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Speaker 2: their journey. The two young founders Alex and Angus only

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Speaker 2: just turned thirty now. I joined them two years ago

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Speaker 2: on that journey and then took over a CEO twelve

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Speaker 2: months ago.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about alexand Angus. Angus, so

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Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about how Alex and Angers.

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Speaker 2: They met at coding camp a number of years ago

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Speaker 2: in Sydney. They were both coding, Yeah, just after school,

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Speaker 2: just after school the two of them did. Angus was

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Speaker 2: trading in crypto and saw that it was a really

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Speaker 2: quite a frustrating, clunky process to go through, and certainly

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Speaker 2: not many people would go through that unless you're a

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Speaker 2: real crypto nerd, especially back then. And Alex is this

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Speaker 2: sort of really downder Worth guy who wanted to democratize

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Speaker 2: financial freedom. He was frustrated as well as a young

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Speaker 2: guy coming through seeing how the traditional banking system and

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Speaker 2: the financial system was clunky. They got together, certainly got

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Speaker 2: together at a very good time, a great partnership. But

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Speaker 2: they also got together at the beginning or just before

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Speaker 2: Crypto went through one of its really big cycles through COVID,

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Speaker 2: and they built this, built the exchange with the whole

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Speaker 2: idea of democratizing financial freedom, making it easier for people

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Speaker 2: to invest in crypto, and that's where the journey started.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we just unpack it a little bit, or just

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Speaker 1: before I do that. Where were you during this period?

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Speaker 1: So their period their original period.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, during that period, I had an e commerce platform, Nito,

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Speaker 2: which became Australia's biggest and Telstra was an investor in that.

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Speaker 2: So there was all for a while I was over.

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Speaker 2: We grew that into fourteen countries and living in the

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Speaker 2: US for a while there with it all growing it

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Speaker 2: and selling what So it's an online platform for online retail,

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Speaker 2: so we had like yeah, no, no, so it was

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Speaker 2: e commerce.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but like a marketplace it was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, in essence, ours was the back end smarts

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Speaker 2: for companies like hose Link, like Edible Blooms, the man Shake,

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Speaker 2: and some of the Spotlight Anaconda. We had all of

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Speaker 2: those as clients, and Nito was a smart back end

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Speaker 2: role of that that enabled them to go onto the

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Speaker 2: website and purchase something, and then we had all the

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Speaker 2: banking rails and everything behind. So I guess moving into

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Speaker 2: crypto for me was not that distinct what I was doing.

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Speaker 2: So Telstra was an investor and we sold to a

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Speaker 2: North American company. I had also been investing in a

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Speaker 2: number of startups and scale up companies myself, so that

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Speaker 2: was kind of what I was doing. And interestingly enough,

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Speaker 2: about four years ago, my wife, who had a financial

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Speaker 2: education business and accounting practice that she sold into BDO,

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Speaker 2: was running the CEO school for CEOs and giving him

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Speaker 2: a lot of financial education. Alex attended that course. It

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Speaker 2: was about a twelve week course and she said to me,

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Speaker 2: you got to meet these young guys. A really interesting guy.

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Speaker 2: So I met him about four years ago and we

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Speaker 2: had some coffees and just sort of stayed in touch,

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Speaker 2: and then about two years ago he asked me to

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Speaker 2: sort of come on and help out so I sort

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Speaker 2: of started in a contracting role because I had a

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Speaker 2: number of other commitments and also on an ASX company

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Speaker 2: that has a big investment in India, so I didn't

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Speaker 2: have the ability to kind of do full time there.

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Speaker 2: And things went along and to a point where twelve

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Speaker 2: months ago, the guys thought they'd built something really great.

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Speaker 2: They could see the global opportunity, but they were thinking

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Speaker 2: they probably weren't the people that wanted to actually lead

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Speaker 2: it directly. And that's when I stepped in as CEO.

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Speaker 1: And were you a crypto trader?

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Speaker 2: I was in a crypto investor, not a deep crypto

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Speaker 2: djen like some people are, but definitely a crypto investor.

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Speaker 2: I got the bug a couple of years earlier, started

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Speaker 2: to really see this new form of money, new rails.

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Speaker 2: I was never one of these people who thought that

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Speaker 2: crypto was going to entirely debase a currency or entirely

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Speaker 2: take away from the financial system, but I thought it

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Speaker 2: would enhance it. So for me, I could just see

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Speaker 2: crypto could enhance the existing financial system. Very excited to Bitcoin.

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Speaker 2: I think it's, you know, the new digital goal for

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Speaker 2: a whole number of reasons. So yeah, I was on

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Speaker 2: the journey. I'd set up as well with my son.

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Speaker 2: He was a teenager and getting into tech himself, and

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Speaker 2: we set up a mining rig to mine bitcoin. So

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Speaker 2: I was starting to get the bug.

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Speaker 1: If you set up to mind the bitcoin that you did,

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Speaker 1: definitely have the bug. It's interesting you when we talk

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Speaker 1: about crypto, When we talk about bitcoin, they're sort of interchangeable,

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Speaker 1: and then sometimes we talk about the way that cryptocurrencies,

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Speaker 1: as you said, there's stacks of them, different types, but

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Speaker 1: how they operate in terms of the programming and the

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Speaker 1: software and the coding they sit on, which is sort

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Speaker 1: of a distributed system. And I don't know whether most

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Speaker 1: of our listeners would really understand the difference between the two,

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Speaker 1: And maybe this would be a good opportunity to talk

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Speaker 1: to someone about We're just leaving the exchange aside for

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Speaker 1: a moment, just in terms of crypto, what is the

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Speaker 1: attraction Because you mentioned traditional banking sometimes record referred to

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Speaker 1: as fiat fiat, But what's the difference between the way

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Speaker 1: the traditional banking system works in terms of systems electronics

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Speaker 1: system to talk about compared to say, the way, for example,

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Speaker 1: bitcoin works.

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Speaker 2: Look, I've got a good example there, Mark that I

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Speaker 2: could use it. I think most people would have experienced.

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Speaker 2: And you talk about the Swift network, which is that

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Speaker 2: global network that's been around for thirty to forty years

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Speaker 2: of transferring money between countries between companies. There's about twelve

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Speaker 2: different steps involved to transfer money bit one thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: overseas or to another company or be it ten million dollars,

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Speaker 2: so about twelve steps, and it will take between two

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Speaker 2: to four days for that money to go through the

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Speaker 2: banking system. So there's twelve different intermediary steps and into

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Speaker 2: ten million bucks in the bank, and I want to

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Speaker 2: send it to my grandma in India to buy a

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Speaker 2: block of lats, there's twelve steps, twelve steps along the

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Speaker 2: way take them to the additional banking It'll take three

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Speaker 2: to four days, and that will probably cost you close

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Speaker 2: to one thousand or fifteen hundred dollars to do it right.

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Speaker 2: Crypto the rails the blockchain that it operates on, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if it's Bitcoin or if it's a

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Speaker 2: theoryum or XRP.

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Speaker 1: So we're sitting on blockchain.

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Speaker 2: They're all sitting on a blockchain that is more peer

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Speaker 2: to peer, so it means from one from you to

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Speaker 2: your grandma directly cuts out those twelve steps. It's two

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Speaker 2: steps one to two steps instead of twelve. So you

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Speaker 2: can imagine there's a lot of people and processes that

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Speaker 2: are a lot of money that gets cut out along

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Speaker 2: the way and done within seconds and done for a

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Speaker 2: fraction of a dollar. That is really one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest use cases of crypto. Lots of others out there.

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Speaker 2: But if I was to try and explain to somebody,

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Speaker 2: why would you be wanting to look at the importance

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Speaker 2: of blockchain in crypto, I would say, just have a

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Speaker 2: look at the way we're sending money traditionally, and look

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Speaker 2: at what is being done now. Stable coins, which are

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Speaker 2: a form of crypto which are backed on a stable asset,

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Speaker 2: the US dollar, the Australian dollar, New Zealand dollar. Last year,

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Speaker 2: the total global volume of that or sorry value not volume,

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Speaker 2: was greater than the total value of transactions on MasterCard

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Speaker 2: and Visa Card put together.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So it's here, It's here to stay, and in fact

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Speaker 2: it's actually starting to really infiltrate the financial system. All

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Speaker 2: the big banks are using it in their trading desks.

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Speaker 2: They might be out there publicly saying, you know, retail

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Speaker 2: we're not sure about this crypto. We want to try

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Speaker 2: and block things with crypto, but their own trading desks

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Speaker 2: are using it. And as I said, there's no hiding

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Speaker 2: the fact that the value of cryptocurrency transactions last year

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Speaker 2: was bigger than master card and block chain glob globally. Yes, no, no,

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Speaker 2: not in Australia. I'm talking on the global rails.

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Speaker 1: So just in terms of blockchain, maybe it just give

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Speaker 1: us a minute or two explanation of what blockchain does

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Speaker 1: that the normal electronic systems in a normal banking system

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Speaker 1: don't do.

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Speaker 2: Look, the easiest way to look at blockchains is literally

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Speaker 2: as a physical block and each transaction is building on

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Speaker 2: the former one, so it's so distributed. So I think

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Speaker 2: you talked about it before. The traditional banking system is centralized,

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Speaker 2: and the blockchain in the crypto is essentially decentralized, so

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Speaker 2: those transactions are recorded on many computers around the world.

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Speaker 2: That's the blockchain on the blockchain, so very very hard

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Speaker 2: for those transactions to be erased, deleted, interfered with. So

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Speaker 2: that's number one, a much more secure system. It can

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Speaker 2: happen much faster because it's not just using a few computers.

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Speaker 2: It's using many computers, so that's the essence of it.

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Speaker 2: And then there's the visibility and the traceability of it.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you or of any of your

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Speaker 2: listeners have ever had to try and trace some of

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Speaker 2: that money that was transferred virgin possible on the blockchain.

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Speaker 2: It is highly traceable.

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Speaker 1: What following you Uber, you can see where it is.

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Speaker 2: That's another great example, and I mean I think that's

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Speaker 2: the new technologies that we've seen in business models Uber,

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Speaker 2: AIRB and B. They're very visible, transparency, big deal for

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Speaker 2: those things. It is and you can see it and trust.

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Speaker 2: Transparency and trust when you're talking financial as set's probably

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Speaker 2: a little bit harder to sometimes see exactly what's happening

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Speaker 2: and for us to understand it. In the traditional system, Yes,

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Speaker 2: in the traditional and we distrust the bank to do

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Speaker 2: it for us. We do, and look, it kind of works.

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Speaker 2: There's no doubt about it that the banking system works.

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Speaker 2: But it's clunky and it's unnecessarily expensive. What crypto and

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Speaker 2: the blockchain offers is a new way, a much more

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Speaker 2: secure way, a much quicker way, and a much cheaper way,

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Speaker 2: and more transparent and more transparent.

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Speaker 1: You can watch it. You can absolutely you can see

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Speaker 1: it happen.

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Speaker 2: You can see it. And the exciting thing is going

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Speaker 2: to be for global trade as well, and that's what

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Speaker 2: I talked about the stable coins and things like that.

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Speaker 2: It's going to give the big mining companies, agricultural companies,

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Speaker 2: and in fact the small traders as well that are

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Speaker 2: in regional Australia and regional countries that ability to deal

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Speaker 2: directly with supplies and see their money going through and

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Speaker 2: get money, will get their goods put on ships put

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Speaker 2: on planes much quicker. So cryptos had a real growth

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Speaker 2: and talked about a lot of retail investors and speculating

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Speaker 2: on it, and that's where it started. The interesting thing

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Speaker 2: is that the traditional financial system bonds and that which

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Speaker 2: started in the eighties and the nineties, started at an

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Speaker 2: institutional level and moved down and was eventually offered to retailers.

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Speaker 2: Crypto's exact reverse. Not necessarily sure why in some reasons,

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Speaker 2: But so cryptos started at retail, but is now very

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Speaker 2: much moving into the institutional space and starting to mature.

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Speaker 2: And you're seeing that, and we're starting to see countries

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Speaker 2: around the world regulate in the space as well. So

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Speaker 2: tell me about the exchange platform that has been established

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Speaker 2: for swift x and in relation to people who may

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Speaker 2: want to buy and or sell or exchange cryptocurrency. So

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Speaker 2: what does swift exes exchange look like. So it's a website.

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Speaker 2: You come on to the website, and in fact, one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we push really hard is education.

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Speaker 2: So we have a whole section of our website that

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Speaker 2: educates people about the asset class, how we suggest you buy,

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Speaker 2: how we suggest you trade, without giving financial advice, but

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Speaker 2: we certainly lay it all out there for people to

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Speaker 2: make their own decisions. We also have built a demo

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Speaker 2: mode so you can go in and without your actual cash.

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Speaker 2: But in essence, it's a website. You go on, you

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Speaker 2: can establish an account like you do pretty much in

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Speaker 2: any digital platform these days. You sign up for an account,

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Speaker 2: you transfer, you don't have to put anything into it,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to know. You can just simply an

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Speaker 2: account yep, there if you want to put something into it.

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Speaker 2: We obviously have codes that you can transfer money to

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Speaker 2: that money will be in your account within seconds, so

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Speaker 2: it gives people a high degree of confidence as well.

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Speaker 2: Whenever I transfer money between banks twenty four hours before

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Speaker 2: that money is there. This will be within seconds. You

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Speaker 2: will have transferred it out of your bank into swift

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Speaker 2: x in most instances, and it'll be there within seconds,

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Speaker 2: or you'll at least have a notification that we're waiting

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Speaker 2: on it from your bank, even if your bank holds

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Speaker 2: it up, so you'll transfer the money. There's a digital

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Speaker 2: or a virtual wallet. Think of it possibly as a

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Speaker 2: big circle, and you'll see how much fear you've put

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Speaker 2: on there. One thousand dollars of cash, five, ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: This stage is just it's just sitting there. It's just

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Speaker 2: normal money. It's just normal money. It's just normal money.

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Speaker 2: You'll then look through a list of assets and tick

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Speaker 2: the list Bitcoin, ethereum, XRP, whichever ones you might choose.

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Speaker 2: You can do one or more tick that list, and

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Speaker 2: in the background you'll say how much of it you

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Speaker 2: want to buy, will go out and work out what's

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Speaker 2: what's it currently selling for, and we'll deduct that off.

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Speaker 2: So if you had ten thousand dollars in there and

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Speaker 2: you wanted to buy five thousand dollars of XRP, it'll

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Speaker 2: deduct that off and you'll have, say nine hundred and

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Speaker 2: ninety eight dollars there of it, and you'll see in

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Speaker 2: your ledger how much cash you've got there, and you'll

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Speaker 2: see how much crypto. And then the other beautiful thing

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Speaker 2: about crypto and the swift x platform is every three

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Speaker 2: seconds we're updating that price to market to market, so

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Speaker 2: my stocks, I can only really look at my stocks

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Speaker 2: when they're trading during the trading hours of nine am

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Speaker 2: to four pm the Australian market, the US, the European whatever, crypto.

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Speaker 2: I open my swift x wallet and twenty four to

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Speaker 2: seven good, all bad, because let's face it, investments go

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Speaker 2: up and down, but I can see all of my

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Speaker 2: investments real time twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 1: It's giving you the value in says dollars or so

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Speaker 1: sort of, well.

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Speaker 2: It's giving you that. It's giving you the value of

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Speaker 2: that asset and then you'll be able to see it

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Speaker 2: back in terms of your portfolio in Aussie dollars as well.

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Speaker 1: You can convert about to dozzy dollars and say, like you,

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Speaker 1: I started ten grand.

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Speaker 2: It's all done automatically, so you'll be able to see

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Speaker 2: the value of your portfolio, your ten thousand dollars. If

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Speaker 2: it's going up, you'll see that maybe it's worth twelve

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Speaker 2: five hundred. You've still got that five thousand dollars of cash,

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Speaker 2: but it was your investment in your XRP that's gone

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Speaker 2: up to and a half thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So yeah, okay, So and if I'm moved to America,

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Speaker 1: can I still access it just the same, exactly the same.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: I would think of it.

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Speaker 1: Back.

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Speaker 2: We talked before a bit about Airbnb, Uber those sorts

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Speaker 2: of things. You access the same Uber app no matter

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Speaker 2: where you are in the world. You access your swift

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Speaker 2: x app no matter where you are in the world,

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Speaker 2: albeit with ex additional security provisions that we allow people

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Speaker 2: to turn on with facial recognition and those sorts of

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Speaker 2: things as well.

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Speaker 1: So can we talk about that just for a couple

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Speaker 1: of minutes. What are the security systems or that sort

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Speaker 1: of Obviously there's a code, or there's a facial recognition

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Speaker 1: or I don't know, fingerprint, What are you using to

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Speaker 1: make sure that it's me on my mobile phone on

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Speaker 1: the app? Looking at what I've got.

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Speaker 2: We're using quite a few things. The challenge often times

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Speaker 2: is how hard do you make it for people versus

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Speaker 2: what action friction. So we have just over fifty percent

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Speaker 2: of our customers that use two factor authentication. It is

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Speaker 2: something that we're constantly talking to them about. Why people

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Speaker 2: don't use it, I don't know, So you talk about

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Speaker 2: it on the swift x app. You could use a password,

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Speaker 2: so we give you the choice, and you can have

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Speaker 2: multiple layers of security, so you can have a physical password,

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Speaker 2: you can log out every single time, log back in

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Speaker 2: facial recognition, so we use biometrics with facial recognition, we

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Speaker 2: have two factor authentication, and then sitting behind the scene,

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Speaker 2: we have some pretty sophisticated monitoring tools that monitor your transactions.

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Speaker 2: So very similar to the very similar to the banks.

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Speaker 2: If you go overseas and haven't advised them, or you

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Speaker 2: have unusual credit card transactions, they may block it, they

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Speaker 2: may stop you, and we will do a similar thing.

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Speaker 2: Why if your transactions are looking suspicious, if we suspect

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Speaker 2: that you might be acting as a money mule or

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Speaker 2: something which you know, we've heard a lot about scams

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Speaker 2: and the likes. Swift Tex has got systems in the

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Speaker 2: background which will kind of recognize through algorithms and start

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Speaker 2: to block transactions until we can get in touch with

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Speaker 2: you and go through a series of identification steps to

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Speaker 2: make sure that it is you, to make sure that

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Speaker 2: that is a transaction that you're actually wanting to undertake.

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Speaker 1: So in my case, I download the app onto here,

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Speaker 1: I can put it anywhere, but I got onto here.

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Speaker 1: I open the app. The apps that may immediately send

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Speaker 1: me a text.

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Speaker 2: Yes, ye you, you'll have it. Within the app, you

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Speaker 2: get a number of notif caations. We'll also hopefully you

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Speaker 2: will have given us your mobile so you can have

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Speaker 2: texts and you'll have emails. What we never do and

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Speaker 2: is something we always say, we will never ask you

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Speaker 2: for your personal details via text.

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Speaker 1: So if someone does, you know that's a skin that's

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Speaker 1: a scam, that's so, And then I can I can

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Speaker 1: also opt to have facial identification of facial recognition out

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Speaker 1: of the app to open the app correct, yep, correct,

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Speaker 1: and I so UI metrics, I guess are the.

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Speaker 2: Most times you'd have some security on your phone to

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Speaker 2: get into your phone. Usually it's then within that the

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Speaker 2: swift x app. Ideally you will have turned on all

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Speaker 2: or as many as you're comfortable with security provisions as well,

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Speaker 2: so before you can open that app, before you can

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Speaker 2: trade or transact. There will be the biometrics, there will

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Speaker 2: be a pass code, there'll be two factor authentication, and

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Speaker 2: then depending on what you do within the app as well,

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Speaker 2: we may in behind the scenes block something and if

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Speaker 2: we deem it as unusual for your protection, we'll reach

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Speaker 2: out to you as well and try to get some

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Speaker 2: verification that that is you who wants to have that

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Speaker 2: transaction process. So it's a pretty deep layer of security

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Speaker 2: that we've put around it.

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Speaker 1: Very good. So I'm want to go the brain comes

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Speaker 1: straight back from the break and I want to talk

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Speaker 1: to you about So what are the risks? I mean

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Speaker 1: that you just addline a number of the mitigating things

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Speaker 1: that you use in relation to the app, the swift

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Speaker 1: x app, But what are the risks that you guys?

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Speaker 1: I mean risks, risks as a continuum, it doesn't stop.

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Speaker 1: There's always new things coming through. And what are some

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Speaker 1: of the risks that people need to be aware of.

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Speaker 1: How do you educate us? And I want to take

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Speaker 1: me through some of this education program. How do I

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Speaker 1: choose I'm not looking for a financial advice, but how

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Speaker 1: do you guide us as to crypto? Which currency we

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Speaker 1: may be considering, you know, should it be my bitcoin

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Speaker 1: and therefore why you mentioned earlier, could be the digital

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Speaker 1: goal of the future. And you know we've seen what

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Speaker 1: goal's done more recently, given all the uncertaintment, goals that

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Speaker 1: are an all time high at the moment. Sure is

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Speaker 1: crazy number, but you know what, we're there because you know,

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Speaker 1: we don't get a dividend out of crypto or digital currencies.

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Speaker 1: You don't get a dividend out of that, but they

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Speaker 1: do grow and you can make a profit, So you

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Speaker 1: may do that to be dividing, but it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: not like it's not like a coupon and you just

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Speaker 1: read coupon on you on your money, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: So what are the defensive measures might be reasons why

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Speaker 1: people do go into cryptocurrencies, and I like talked about

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Speaker 1: about that after the break.

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Speaker 2: Sounds great, looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm back from the break and we are talking

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Speaker 1: about all things crypto and swift text being the one

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Speaker 1: of the exchanges that you know are available for us

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Speaker 1: to use in relation to trading, buying, selling, just checking

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Speaker 1: our value of our crypto, the things that we've been

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Speaker 1: trading and or using. I guess I'd like to know

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Speaker 1: from you a lot of people are nervous about it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they get not about swift text, not about exchange. It

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Speaker 1: was just generally crypto. They're nervous about it. And because

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Speaker 1: there's you know, allegations of and I don't know if

437
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 1: it's true or not, but you know, this is a

438
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,120
Speaker 1: major criminal sort of trade. It's probably what it used

439
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 1: to happen anyway, probably not so much these days. But

440
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, criminals love to trade in crypto because there's

441
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: no cash, no actual folding money involved, and they can

442
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: get the money place anywhere in the world, or they

443
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,679
Speaker 1: can go on access it, I should say anywhere in

444
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: the world. You know, they might make some big drug

445
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: deal in Australia, some other drug person pays them in

446
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: crypto and they go and pick it up in I

447
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: won't suggest a country, but somewhere overseas and they turn

448
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: that back into cash at a local bank and away

449
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: they go. Or man. In fact, they might not know

450
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: about casually misgone by assets using the crypto. They might

451
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: come by a house or a resort or a ship

452
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: or something. Whatever these criminals do. I don't know what

453
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 1: they do, but you know, how do some of the

454
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: swift eggs get us around that, like, get that fear

455
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: out of our actual normal day to day processing of

456
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 1: what we've decided to about cryptocurrency. What do you tell us?

457
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: Look, I think you've raised a few good points there.

458
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: There's a little bit for me to unpack in terms

459
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 2: of fraud scams. There's actually more frauds and schemes happening

460
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 2: with cash, definitely and the traditional financial system. Having said

461
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: that that, there are frauds and schemes that definitely happen

462
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: within crypto. The industry was in its infancy fifteen years

463
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: ago and it was used in those days for a

464
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 2: large number of nefarious activities, but over the last seven

465
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: to eight years, and I don't think this is so

466
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,119
Speaker 2: I'm glad you've raised because I don't think this has

467
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 2: really come out in media, and potentially there are other

468
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: interested parties that sometimes continue to kind of pile on

469
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 2: to try and put the industry down all those who

470
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 2: don't want to but those who don't want it to

471
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: be in them don't want to see the industry succeed.

472
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 2: So what I will say around that is that the

473
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 2: industry is really conscious of that. The KYC, so the

474
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 2: Know Your Customer and the AML, the anti money laundering,

475
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 2: which is really global provisions. Each country has its own.

476
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: We're told as we meet with a number of the

477
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: banks that swift Ex's procedures are stronger and better than

478
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: a lot of the banks. Now, people don't generally know

479
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: that as a new industry to be fair much easier

480
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 2: than older industries that are building on legacy systems. So

481
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 2: for us, we have pretty strong identification metrics around that.

482
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: There are a lot of platforms TRM labs, chainalysis, and

483
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 2: a number of different platforms globally that are combining and

484
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: looking at all of the different transactions, bringing data together

485
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: and sharing that with federal authorities globally. So there's a

486
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: huge has been for the last seven or eight years,

487
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 2: huge crackdown on that. So what I would say to

488
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: people is it's generally a pretty safe industry from that

489
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 2: point of view, and a lot of works being done

490
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: by the industry to make sure that there are just

491
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 2: reputable players in it. Having said that, whenever you're dealing

492
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 2: with your own personal finances, you've got to have a

493
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,680
Speaker 2: heightened sense of awareness. It doesn't matter whether you're carrying

494
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 2: cash with you under your mattress or whether you're dealing

495
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,239
Speaker 2: entirely in the digital economy and crypto, and you have

496
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: no bank accounts, you've got to be We touched on

497
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: it earlier in terms of you know, the security on

498
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: the phone, et cetera, keip awareness. What I say to

499
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 2: people is just understand you've worked hard for your money,

500
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: don't let someone else take it. Always have a level

501
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: of kind of suspicion around it, and make sure you

502
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: deal with reputable players, ask questions as well. So I

503
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: think that's the base level what I would say in

504
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: terms of the idea of what do you invest in?

505
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 2: That's another interesting issue for us in the industry, and

506
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: particularly here in Australia, where there's up to twenty percent

507
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 2: of Australians already invested in crypto. Independent studies show there's

508
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: another fifteen to twenty percent, So we're going to have

509
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 2: forty percent of Australians invested in crypto in the next

510
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: twenty four months. We still don't have regulation in this country,

511
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: so we've spent forty years building up a financial planning

512
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 2: industry and telling people to go and speak to financial planners.

513
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 2: They don't have crypto on their approved product list, so

514
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: very hard for people to get independent financial planning advice

515
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 2: from regulated financial planners. So that's an issue, and that

516
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 2: also leads to the lack of understanding. It's probably why

517
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 2: swift tex is over indexed with our education page. Why

518
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: I'm talking to you, why I put a lot of

519
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 2: time talking to people and trying to help educate them

520
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 2: about the industry and help them get themselves educated. There

521
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: is definitely also some credible information on YouTube and social media,

522
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: but there's a lot of disinformation and lack of credibility.

523
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: So be discerning, like anything in life, if you're going

524
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: to make a big purchase, we'll spend your money, exercise

525
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 2: some level of caution and some level of their The

526
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 2: way I look at crypto is there's probably three different types,

527
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: the more or less the blue chip. If we relate

528
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,679
Speaker 2: back to the equities market, there's probably about twenty different

529
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 2: cryptos that.

530
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: I don't think are going to go anywhere.

531
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: They still have a level of volatility, but their volatility

532
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: is coming down because their use cases is becoming a

533
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 2: lot stronger. Then there's the for example coins, so we've

534
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 2: talked about bit coin, Ethereum, Solana, XRP, so there's some

535
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: of the ones that have been around for many years

536
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: and they have got some strong stability about them. Then

537
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: there's the old coins coins sit below them. There could

538
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 2: be Suey, there could be Polygon, a few of those.

539
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 2: Then there's the meme coins. Meme coins have some use cases.

540
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: If people are listening out there, you might have seen.

541
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 2: And this is not something that the industry has certainly endorsed.

542
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: But if a meme coin would be an example of

543
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: the doge coin would be exact that Elon Musk has

544
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: been involved in, or the Trump or the Millennia meme coin,

545
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 2: So that's an exact sample of that. What I say

546
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: about crypto is two things. One, it definitely was a

547
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: speculative asset when it first started. I think we talked

548
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: about earlier in this podcast. The use cases that I

549
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: started to show for using it. Each crypto project should

550
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: they don't all so if they don't have one, I

551
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't invest in them. A white paper, So every crypto

552
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: token should have out there on the website a white

553
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: paper which it talks about its use case. Why is

554
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: it useful now? XRP I'd mentioned is one that claims

555
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 2: a lot of its use case is good for making

556
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: payments for payments for well payments digital, between the company's governments,

557
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: et cetera. One is ethereum, which is used a lot

558
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: in gaming. So just to go really basic, they should

559
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: have a white paper that talks about that. But the

560
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: next point, and this is what swift x is working

561
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: a lot on because you touched on it before, and

562
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: this is the intersect we need to have with regulation.

563
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: We've got to be careful where regulation is and licensing.

564
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: At the moment, you're right, you go and buy it,

565
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: and all you're doing is sitting there waiting for that

566
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 2: asset to go up or down as an investment or

567
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: you're trading it. And a lot of people have very

568
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: successfully traded them. They've taken the feed out, they've used

569
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 2: it for a deposit on their house or buying buying

570
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: a full house. There's lots of stories of people trading,

571
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: lots of stories of people investing. But what's also happening

572
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: now and swift x is soon to be releasing crypto

573
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: back loans, so you can retain your crypto, your bitcoin

574
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand dollars a bitcoin, and we'll be lending

575
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: against that so you can get the continue to hold

576
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: that asset. If you think it's going to go up

577
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: and you'll be able to borrow against.

578
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: It, sort of like a margin line.

579
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: I guess you similar to a margin loan.

580
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: It leaves like buying against shares for correctly.

581
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 2: Yep, you're also going to have crypto back to credit

582
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: cards and be able to start to make payments as

583
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: well with crypto, and the other point you touched on

584
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: earning interest on it or a return of dividends like shares.

585
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: There is the concept in crypto of staking, so once

586
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: someone licensing approvals are through and some changes there, there's

587
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: an ability for customers to earn on a number of cryptos.

588
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: We talked about the blockchain before. The proof of stake

589
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: is a way of proving the transaction on the blockchain

590
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: and you get paid for putting your crypto out there

591
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: to do it. In simple terms, so there's a portion

592
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: of that like interest. Now it might be two or

593
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: three percent, it might be four or five percent or

594
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 2: fifteen percent or higher. It depends. It's the same as

595
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 2: traditional financial system. There's some risks involved with that. But

596
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: so we talk about the crypto project having a white

597
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: paper and a purpose and if that goes well, that

598
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 2: crypto should and is demand, you'll see the price of

599
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: that crypto go up. But in addition to that, I

600
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: talked about bringing the traditional financial system and the digital

601
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: financial system together, so that enables the margin lending on

602
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: the crypto. It enables the use cases for credit cards

603
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 2: and payments, which there are retailers starting to accept crypto

604
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: for payments now, and it enables the idea of earning

605
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: interest or staking revenue on your crypto. So you might

606
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 2: see now that there's a lot more use cases for

607
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: the crypto, just beyond the fact that it may go

608
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: up or down, or that it was a trading asset.

609
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: So this is what we're seeing is the maturing of

610
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: the industry.

611
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: So that's an interesting one. So let's say let's pick

612
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: a retailer and we won't retailer X and let's say

613
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: the Australian and let's say if they decide to accept crypto,

614
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: is it more likely that the exchange or whoever is

615
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: going to will issue a cryptocurrency credit card and then

616
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: you go to buy that item, perhaps online, with your

617
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency crypto credit card, and that credit card just goes

618
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: straight into your account and charges you. Like in my

619
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: own credit card at the moment, not being a credit

620
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: card like a debit card probably closer closer to or

621
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: or is it or is the retailer more likely to

622
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: charge you feit normal dollars, but the credit card converts

623
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: it into goes into your wallet and grabs out of

624
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: it whatever it is in bitcoin that needs to be

625
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: converted into fear to pay the retailer.

626
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 2: You've actually think you've actually no, so it'll we both.

627
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 2: There'll be both use cases that we'll be able to offer,

628
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 2: so you will be able to have it. And part

629
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: of this, you might see where we're going here is

630
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: the idea that you can do everything if you wish

631
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: within swift X, So if you wish, you can operate

632
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: entirely within that ecosystem, so like a MasterCard or absolutely

633
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: so the whole idea is with that card. And these

634
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 2: days not many of us are getting physical cards. We've

635
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: usually got digital card on our wallet, in our Apple.

636
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: Wallet for example.

637
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: So you will be able to go to the retailer

638
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: and the retailer can accept that in fear cash, in

639
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: which case, when it's ready to pay off your credit card,

640
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: that will be taken out of your crypto account account

641
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 2: or your wallet or alternatively, and what we're seeing is

642
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: particularly not so much in Australia yet, but we're seeing

643
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: it in Europe a lot, seeing it in Asia, starting

644
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,280
Speaker 2: to see it in the US where retailers are taking

645
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 2: some of the cryptos as a form of payment actual actually,

646
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 2: so there's no conversion.

647
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: Now.

648
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is, and this is we don't all

649
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: have the answer for it. But the exciting thing, and

650
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 2: one of the things that has drawn me to the

651
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 2: industry is how many different use cases. But if you

652
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 2: think about it, and most of us travel overseas, we've

653
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 2: got to go and get a travel card, we go

654
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: and convert currencies, et cetera. And there's significant I talked

655
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: earlier about how institutions and any of us that transfer

656
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 2: money internationally have these twelve steps. It's a similar lot

657
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: of friction costs when you're moving money internationally into different currencies.

658
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 2: If you think about it, the bitcoin, the XRP cryptocurrency

659
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: is are global. It doesn't matter where you are, So

660
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: this notion unless you're on ramping and off ramping, so

661
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 2: converting into cash, converting or into crypto, and vice versa.

662
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: The transaction fees are fractions, so you're actually not having

663
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: the conversion fee of the foreign currency exchange.

664
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: Who will take that risk? Though?

665
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: Well, you see, crypto is global, so you might get

666
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 2: some you might get some fees, but spending crypto anywhere

667
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 2: you won't need to have the exchange risk.

668
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: So if I'm the retailer and I'm accepting bitcoin.

669
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: Sorry, the volatility, the volatility risk you will accept as

670
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: the retailer. As a retail you'll accept the retailer. What

671
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 2: a lot of them are doing at the moment is

672
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: as soon as the transaction happens, the retailer is virtually

673
00:35:54,600 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 2: settling or batch settling into cash, so they're avoiding that risk.

674
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: Any Are there any people that there offering your hedging

675
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: these transactions?

676
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 2: There are as well, not at the not at the

677
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: retail level, but at the institutional hedging is becoming a

678
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: big market. The derivatives market, the global derivatives market is

679
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 2: larger than the spot crypto market by many times. So

680
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: these are the sorts of things when most of us

681
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: think about cryptos still, we think about it from a

682
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 2: retail perspective, because we think our own use cases which

683
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: are growing. And I guess what I've tried to highlight

684
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: in this conversation and just by the retails there is

685
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: that it's starting to permeate itself into the financial system

686
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,800
Speaker 2: and it's creating a more efficient, more transparent financial system.

687
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: It's slowly happening and people are starting to see it.

688
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: But I think you're going to find over the next

689
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: couple of years that it's really going to the use

690
00:36:58,080 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 2: cases and the work that's being done on the back.

691
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 2: I talk about the industry a bit and it's probably

692
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: similar to my use case. It's going from the suits,

693
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: from the hoodies to the suits.

694
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:07,959
Speaker 1: Right.

695
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: The industry is growing up. There are an incredible number

696
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 2: of people from traditional financial services that are disillusioned, a

697
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 2: lot of people early and late in their career that

698
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 2: are moving out, a lot of traditional financial players into crypto,

699
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 2: and that is turbo charging the industry. It was started.

700
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 2: Its giving liquidity, it's giving it liquidity, it's giving it

701
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 2: an understanding, it's helping with the risk side of things,

702
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 2: all of that sort of stuff and the maturity, and

703
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 2: it's helping with use cases. So it's definitely exciting industry

704
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: to be following.

705
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: So in I think it was twenty twenty two, maybe

706
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, we had the one of the world's

707
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: largest exchanges run in a bit of trouble with one

708
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 1: of its founders or through one of its founders, and

709
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: they actually end up resting one of this founder in

710
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,239
Speaker 1: I don't know, Cayman Islands or something like that, and

711
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: the issue was that he and others but some are

712
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: able to access money sitting in people's accounts in anticipation

713
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,439
Speaker 1: of them going to buy something.

714
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 2: That's largely what it was here. And I think they

715
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: excided him back from they did they go back and

716
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: he's in jail.

717
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: Now he is in jail, is okay? So what has

718
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: swift x done around that area to make sure that

719
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: anyone who deals in swift x or uses swift x

720
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: doesn't have to lay better than not worrying about that

721
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: sort of shit.

722
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 2: Look, whenever those instances go down in any industry, the

723
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,760
Speaker 2: bad actors cause people to be concerned. It also causes,

724
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: though good operators like swift x to really look in

725
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: wood and go, are we doing enough? What else could

726
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: we be doing? And how do we communicate that to people?

727
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 1: So, but you need a bad actor in the first place.

728
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 1: Some with bad.

729
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: Unfortunately you need them, and fortunately they're still out there

730
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: and will continue. So I think back to that thing.

731
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 2: You know, people that want to get involved in this industry,

732
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: they need to do their research, look at reputable players,

733
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: look at players that are out there doing the right thing.

734
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: But the traditional financial markets have always had the client

735
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 2: money's rule and the separation of client assets from company assets.

736
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: That's something that swift x takes really seriously. We know

737
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: every cent of a client of customers money and that

738
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 2: does not get mixed with our own. So we have

739
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 2: our own separate ledges. We know what's our company money

740
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: and we know what's our customers money. There's a lot

741
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 2: of work going into that whole custody area, and that's

742
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 2: another area once the regulation comes in in terms of it,

743
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 2: and in the traditional financial model there's been a lot

744
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 2: of separation of that. So there's a lot of custody

745
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: players now, third party highly reputable custody players as well,

746
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: where people can or wear the asse sets are actually stored,

747
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 2: so and a lot more transparency around since since the

748
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: blow up off that company.

749
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: Are you talking about are you talking about the sort

750
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: of like the likes of perpetual trust in those sorts

751
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 1: of organizations.

752
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 2: Or they're probably not getting into it. But yes, they

753
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: have a place in which they play in the traditional

754
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: financial services, but in similar similar concept ye. So there's

755
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: a custodians custodians yea, the whole custodi or model that

756
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: people are comfortable with and used to in traditional financial services.

757
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: It adds cost, but it does add.

758
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 2: Security and it's an important trust layer. And that trust

759
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 2: layer is being built into the into the crypto landscape.

760
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 1: Now. So how is swift Eggs dealing with the regulatory environment?

761
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: Are they on the front foot?

762
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: Are they talking to Australian governments about the possibilities to

763
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 2: make it let's maybe build a layer and an additional

764
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: layer of trust where you guys with the Australian regular Regulator.

765
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 2: I think we've touched a fair bit in this conversation

766
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 2: around education and the government and the opposition need that

767
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: education as well. Swift x is one of the operators

768
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 2: here in Australia and we have a couple of industry associations,

769
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 2: so between the Digital Economy of Australia, the Decal we

770
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 2: called Fintech Australia and the Tech Council of Australia, So

771
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 2: three large industry bodies that do talk a lot about policy.

772
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: So we're members of those three. We accompany them to

773
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: a number of meetings with current government and opposition and

774
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,919
Speaker 2: it's been a real education process. So swift x has

775
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: We've really linked in to have the conversation because I

776
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: think it's important for Australians and I think it's important

777
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: not only from a consumer protection perspective. I talked about

778
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: the financial planning need for financial planners to be able

779
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 2: to give advice, but I also see that blockchain and

780
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: crypto and digital assets can become a fifth major economic

781
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: pillar for Australia. It's very unlikely Australia is going to

782
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 2: become a manufacturing hub, but something like blockchain and crypto,

783
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: where we're using our intellectual capital, if we get the

784
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: legislation right where it's sufficiently innovative but it's got consumers

785
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: protections built in. And now that we're in the hybrid

786
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,600
Speaker 2: working environment and we've got pretty good satellite technology and communication,

787
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: we can attract the brightest brains and create an ecosystem

788
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: in this country and data centers and data centers and

789
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: all of those sorts of things. We have power for

790
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: four a robust economic pillar of the Australian governments Australian economy.

791
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: So I think back to the government side of things.

792
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: I think the governments and whether it be the current

793
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: government or the opposition, needs to look at this from

794
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: an economic pillar productivity perspective, because I think it's a

795
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: real opportunity there, and then from the consumer protection so

796
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 2: swift X leans in because we've got a responsibility for

797
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: our customers' money. We've got a response ability for over

798
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: one point one million Australians.

799
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 1: Now you've got that many customers.

800
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,400
Speaker 2: Now we've got over one point one million customers, So

801
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 2: we take it very seriously. We're here for a long

802
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 2: time and we're building a sustainable business. So for us,

803
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: it's important to be sitting around the table with government.

804
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: This is new technology. I didn't grow up with it.

805
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: I've had to teach myself with it. So many of

806
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 2: us are in that environment. So I think educating government,

807
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: educating opposition. What I'd say in Australia pleasingly is that

808
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: there is bipartisan support, so both sides of government acknowledged

809
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 2: the need for the industry to be regulated. The problem is,

810
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: as we have with many governments, so many things get

811
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 2: in front of it. And I do think the Australian

812
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 2: population is being done a bit of a disservice at

813
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: the moment because we've been kicking around the possibility of

814
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: legislation and we've had a framework. We've had a couple

815
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: of frameworks proposed for the last four or five years.

816
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 2: So it's important now that with the new government we

817
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: get in and make sure that they're sufficiently educated and

818
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: that that actually brings something in to help with the

819
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: productivity and to help with the consumer protection.

820
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: I thing will happen because I remember in there was

821
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: two thousand and one the then Minister for Finance who

822
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 1: was Joe Hockey, who was in charge of consumer protection

823
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: for in financial transactions or in transactions online transactions. Actually

824
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 1: I was asked to chair a task forced into online

825
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: transactions and consumer protection and at that stage laws around

826
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 1: consumer protection for online purchases, and we actually were tasked

827
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: with putting together a set of recommended conventions that online

828
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 1: vendors must adhere to, for example, like silly things not

829
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: silly labeling. For example, a prepair of pajamas you might

830
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: buy online from an online vendor if it's going to

831
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: be sold in Australia to an Australian consumer, then that

832
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: online vendor must say if it's flammable or not flammable,

833
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: or what's the return policy or what's the spam policy?

834
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: Once I buy something, can they then start spamming me

835
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: with stuff? Et cetera. And we recommende recommendations as opting in,

836
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 1: as opposed opting out, and those sorts of things. But

837
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: it wasn't after very long though that I'd say would

838
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: have been maybe five years. You know, it sounds like

839
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: a long comment. It wasn't really really very long that

840
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: we started to turn those recommendations into legislation. And my

841
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: gut feeling is if it's sort of built up as

842
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: a consumer protection type argument from you guys, that the

843
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: government probably will call for a task force and get

844
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: an inquiry done, and then off the back of that

845
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: recommended legislation, and I'll probably say, you know, appro has

846
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: got to regulate it, or someone's got to regulate it,

847
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: because once it's sort of regulated, it just feels a

848
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 1: bit more comfortable.

849
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: I think you. I think you're right, and as an

850
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 2: industry in general, we're very supportive of it. We actually

851
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 2: understand the value of legislation. I think we've got to

852
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: be careful in this country not to overregulate so that

853
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 2: we stifle innovation, and that's something that I think Australia

854
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 2: has done sometimes to industries. But at the same time

855
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: we have to get consumer protection. And the most important

856
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: thing I think that governments can do is create an

857
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 2: environment of certainty for business so that it can get

858
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 2: on and deliver within those parameters. And when you've got

859
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: that uncertainty, that's when you have more bad actors. You

860
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: have a risk of more bad actors and you have

861
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 2: a risk of losing innovation and getting behind the rest

862
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 2: of the world. So I think it is something, but

863
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: you're right. I believe it's happening. It's a push and

864
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 2: the positive thing is that both sides of Parliament are

865
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: supportive of it and the industry is supportive of it.

866
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 2: So there really is no reason that we shouldn't have

867
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: regulation for crypto very clearly set out here in Australia.

868
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 1: But knowing governments as I sort of do, especially more recently,

869
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: unless it's understandable, which is your job. Unless people understand

870
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: what crypto is and blockchain is and what a swift

871
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 1: x exchange is and how it operates, the government need

872
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: people like you to continue to educate everybody, because government

873
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: won't continue to educate because's nothing inter for them. Continue

874
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: to educate Australians as to what cryptocurrency is all about

875
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: and why they should and you have to go to

876
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: exchange to do the transactions, why that's important and as

877
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: sooner or later one or either one of the parties

878
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: whoever wins and who is going to win this next election,

879
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: will probably have to do it because there's going to

880
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: be pressure on them from Australian consumers as Australian consumers

881
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: use cryptocurrency more.

882
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:54,879
Speaker 2: What's tell me some of the things before we close off?

883
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 2: What are some of the exciting things that you guys

884
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: are involved in a swift tech in terms of the

885
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 2: future of crypto and training on exchanges. Look, I'm just

886
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,320
Speaker 2: really excited and that's what's brought me at this stage

887
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 2: of my career into this industry is I just see

888
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: that it's a real coming together. This is something that

889
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 2: we're seeing once in a lifetime in terms of modernizing

890
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 2: the traditional financial system. This is going to revolutionize payments,

891
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: going to revolutionize investments, the transfer of money and the

892
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: visibility of it for both individual consumers, small business, global corporations,

893
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: and governments, so that's what's exciting me. Lots of projects

894
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: from a swift X perspective an Australian company. The two

895
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: founders I mentioned before hometown is Brisbane, but we now

896
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 2: have people working in Canada, in the Philippines, in England

897
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: or the UK, in New Zealand and South Africa and

898
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: throughout Australia, so we're starting to really build Crypto's global

899
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: swift x is definitely we've just recently closed a transaction

900
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: with buying New Zealand's largest exchange, so easy Crypto has

901
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,919
Speaker 2: become part of swift x, so we've got about sixty

902
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: percent now as in a roll up, and they also

903
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 2: had operations in South Africa, and there's a number of

904
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: other transactions that swift x is in the middle of.

905
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: So we're looking at growing and I think that that

906
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: level of growth because crypto is so global, makes a

907
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,879
Speaker 2: lot of sense from that point of view. So we're

908
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: definitely going down that path in terms as a company.

909
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: Other geographies that we're looking at, other aspects of the

910
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: industry I touched on a little bit earlier. For me,

911
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: it's really important bringing the ability to have financial freedom.

912
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,840
Speaker 2: That's what swift X really stands for we're a crypto

913
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 2: first company. We're really passionate about delivering world class financial education,

914
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 2: and we're really passionate about delivering world class service customer service.

915
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 2: However people want to interact with us, we want them

916
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: to be able to interact with us. So we're building

917
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 2: out those pillars of the business. We're moving into that

918
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 2: regulated environment that we talked about, but we're expanding our

919
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,800
Speaker 2: product lines as well, so we will soon be launching

920
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: the area of credit cards, crypto backlending. We're underway working

921
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 2: with how we are able to offer a return on

922
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: people's crypto that they have on the exchange, and we're

923
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: also looking into to the derivatives side of things. So

924
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,359
Speaker 2: there's a lot of product initiatives that we're doing. There's

925
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 2: a lot of geographic expansion that Swifts is doing. And

926
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: the other big thing, one of the big passions that

927
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 2: I've got and trying to bring the whole team is

928
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: this vision of how do we bring digital so the

929
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 2: DeFi together with trad fire traditional finance, and I think

930
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 2: there's some exciting initiatives and exciting projects that we're looking at,

931
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: working and bringing to market over the next twelve to

932
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: eighteen months.

933
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: And just so everyone doesn't get too weird about the terminology.

934
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: Def I just mean it's decentralized finance as opposed to

935
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 1: centralized finance, which is how the banking system, the current

936
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: banking system.

937
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: That's the best, that's the best analogy. Yes, using it,

938
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 2: it's a decentralized As a consumer, you have more control,

939
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 2: you have more visibility over that system, and there are

940
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: less intermediaries in there, and there's a lot more peer

941
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: to peer, so you're reducing those you're reducing the costs,

942
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 2: you're getting control, and you're right, there's less centralized control

943
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 2: from it, so you.

944
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: Know, you're less reliable upon one entity. That's it. That's

945
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 1: all one system or one.

946
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: Particular system, and those points of failure, so there's there's

947
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 2: a broadening.

948
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: And did your team of Swift Swift X get excited

949
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: when Trump got voted in and he put out his

950
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,799
Speaker 1: meme meme, He's Trump Meme and the Millennium meme. Did

951
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: you guys get excited about that sort of stuff and

952
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: what Trump is going to do for decentralized finance globally.

953
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 2: We have gone through a range of emotions since since

954
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 2: that Trump went to succeeded in victory. What I will

955
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,120
Speaker 2: say is that the US particularly, but globally, there's been

956
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 2: a one to eighty degree shift since Trump came in.

957
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: I think what he did do well for the industry

958
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: was say that he was a crypto first president, so

959
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: I think he stamped his authority on that. I think

960
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 2: he's done some really good things with the SEC in

961
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: terms of at the moment he's in Exchange, which is

962
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,800
Speaker 2: the enforcer, which is like our asset here in Australia,

963
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 2: and what and what he has said to them is

964
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: a do no harm rule. So crypto in the United

965
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 2: States still doesn't have clear legislation. There were a lot

966
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: of legislative cases being brought against crypto companies that were

967
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 2: somewhat questionable, maybe they were politically motivated. He's virtually taken

968
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 2: all of that away, and he said unless you are

969
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,799
Speaker 2: blatantly ripping off consumers, then the SEC is not going

970
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,600
Speaker 2: to go after you. So I think that's an important

971
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 2: statement and setting it out. However, I think on the

972
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,040
Speaker 2: other side of things, I would say that most people

973
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: in the industry probably weren't supportive of a Donald Trump

974
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 2: or a Malenia Trump. Mean coin when he brought them out,

975
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 2: how he brought them out as president.

976
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 1: No one's unaccepted.

977
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 2: Look at this stage, I think it's one of those things.

978
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 2: It's hard to see the use case. They're exciting. Potentially,

979
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,880
Speaker 2: when you say the use case, you know that someone

980
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,839
Speaker 2: would accept them as payment for something. I can't see

981
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 2: anybody accepting it because it's fairly volatile. Maybe they have

982
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 2: a historical and they will go up like a piece

983
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 2: of art in time over value. But besides that, yeah,

984
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 2: I don't think there's a practical real world use case

985
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: for them. So I would say that lots of people

986
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 2: in the industry are very happy that Trump is pro crypto,

987
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: and he did those things I talked about before in

988
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: terms of the regulator and giving some more certainty to

989
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,720
Speaker 2: the industry. I don't think there's probably too many people

990
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 2: in the industry who are key for him to be

991
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: bringing out too many more mean coins. And I think

992
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 2: what we've seen in the disruption and uncertainty in the

993
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: so crypto certainly spiked when we saw the sea of

994
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 2: read in November of the Republicans and Trump winning Wall

995
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:19,880
Speaker 2: of States. There was a massive rise and rally in crypto.

996
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:23,439
Speaker 2: But like most asset classes. Now, the way he's gone

997
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: about the tariffs and everything like that, the asset class

998
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 2: is certainly pulled back. So there's been a mixed bag.

999
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 2: There's been a mixed bag. But I think I always

1000
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:35,279
Speaker 2: take a longer term view, and that is that ultimately

1001
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 2: for the industry, there's a lot of positivity around it

1002
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 2: that the industry can move forward and it can innovate.

1003
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 2: And if the industry is allowed to innovate in the US,

1004
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: in Australia and globally, consumers will end up benefiting from it.

1005
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 2: And that's what this is also about. How do we

1006
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 2: go on a world stage? Last question, Jason, but how

1007
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 2: did we go on a stage? Like Jason Timman, do

1008
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: you turn up on behalf of a c of swift

1009
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: x to the Dubai conference that was recently held for crypto?

1010
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 1: I mean, do you do? You go there and you

1011
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: know it's not scrup but tell about swift eggs and

1012
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 1: tell them what Australia is doing.

1013
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 2: As as CEO, I've got to balance my time. One

1014
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: thing is definitely attending conferences, and it's global conferences for

1015
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 2: that very reason. So I've recently come back from Paris

1016
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 2: Blockchain Week so certainly spending a lot of time in

1017
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 2: the European community. I'm heading over to Toronto in two

1018
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 2: weeks as Consensus, which is another global conference there, and

1019
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: I'll be in Singapore at Token twenty forty nine later

1020
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: this year. I didn't go to Dubai, which is just

1021
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 2: basically currently recently.

1022
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: I think it was the end of there was an April.

1023
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, just in April, yep, yep, now, but it was now.

1024
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: But I was there last.

1025
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: Year with those massive rains when there was lots of

1026
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 2: flood floods last year. So I certainly spend an element

1027
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,759
Speaker 2: and valuable for people to go to just generally people

1028
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 2: who are interested, absolutely, and there's some great ones here

1029
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:04,520
Speaker 2: in Australia. There's the Australian Crypto Convention, which last year

1030
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: was here in Sydney, has been in Melbourne, has been

1031
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 2: on the Gold Coast. So there's some good conferences in Australia.

1032
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:13,840
Speaker 2: What I would say, I think back to it. For me,

1033
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,920
Speaker 2: it's about educating yourself. If you want to get involved,

1034
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: you get a new asset. This is a new asset class.

1035
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 2: You know. In my career I've been involved and still

1036
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: am involved in a number of different asset classes. So

1037
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 2: for me, I think it's an important asset class to

1038
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 2: be part of my portfolio, but I've got to understand it.

1039
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 2: I think the best way I've ever understood assets, and

1040
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: I've made money and lost money, but is by actually

1041
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 2: investing in them. So I think that's one thing, but

1042
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:40,919
Speaker 2: at a level you were comfortable at. But the other

1043
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 2: thing is I like to do my research, So going

1044
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 2: to conferences is really good. Also, one in Singapore called

1045
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 2: It's Token forty nine is total, so that's going to

1046
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 2: be the end of October. Okay this year an easy

1047
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 2: one to get up to. The big thing is the

1048
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 2: crypto community globally, compare to a lot of industries, is

1049
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 2: still relatively small, so you're getting a lot of people

1050
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: in crypto that are traveling to these conferences. So it's

1051
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:12,719
Speaker 2: a really good opportunity to listen to a diverse concentration

1052
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 2: of people, good concentration of speakers. And for me, building

1053
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 2: a global exchange and a global crypto first new age

1054
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 2: kind of financial services company really important for me to

1055
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 2: see what's happening, what I'm seeing. Do we get on stage,

1056
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: I mean as a country.

1057
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: Looks.

1058
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 2: Australia was in the early stages of crypto held in

1059
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 2: quite high regard because we've been so slow to legislate,

1060
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:42,320
Speaker 2: we've been slipping down further and further. And then when

1061
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 2: you look at the global side of things, they're interested.

1062
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 2: You know, people globally are interested in what Australia is doing,

1063
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 2: what the APAC region is doing. So yeah, we do

1064
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 2: get opportunities to get on stage. So once again, I'll

1065
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 2: come back to it. The swift X is swift X

1066
00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: and the industry it's so global, So that's why we've

1067
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 2: does participate in those areas. And as I say, I

1068
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 2: think there's a real opportunity for people to learn a

1069
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 2: lot by going to these conferences.

1070
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: And a lot of them actually online too. You can

1071
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: pay a lesser amount of money. I just watch the

1072
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: whole thing.

1073
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 2: You can watch the whole thing, so people don't need

1074
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 2: to think they actually have to travel.

1075
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: Physically, musically travel. I know the Dubai on was online

1076
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 1: as well. You can be watching it a lot there.

1077
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: Well, Jason, that was actually quite for me, quite fascinating.

1078
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:35,280
Speaker 2: And I've had a long interest in crypto and you

1079
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 2: know I have participated let's call it some not so well,

1080
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 2: not so successful others are more successfully in terms of

1081
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 2: various currencies. Of course I had no idea what I

1082
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 2: was doing, but I was just picking what I thought

1083
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,640
Speaker 2: was popular. I thought that was one way of de

1084
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 2: risking it because there's more participants in a bitcoin et

1085
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 2: cetera etheroereum. But the one final thing on what do

1086
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 2: you want to ask you? And I think is an

1087
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: important one in terms of volatility, maybe you could just

1088
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 2: quickly explain and maybe call out at least one currency,

1089
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: that cryptocurrency that is tied to the US dollar.

1090
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 1: Importance of maybe tying a currency to either another currency

1091
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: like a fear currency, or certainly tying it to gold

1092
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: the price gold in no way sort of consumers or

1093
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 1: people who might want to participate, and it can feel

1094
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot more safer.

1095
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: So two of the currencies there are the usd T

1096
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: and usd C, so there are two stable coins that

1097
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 2: are actually tied essentially to the US dollar. So they're

1098
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 2: an interesting one to have a look at. There is

1099
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: also in Australia now where we're getting a couple of

1100
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 2: different ones that are coming up. One is a UDD

1101
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:54,520
Speaker 2: so it's an Australian one, and there's a couple of

1102
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 2: others that are in the process of standing up. So

1103
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 2: there are so those stable coins. Certainly if they change listened,

1104
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 2: you could be able to get you can you get

1105
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: access to those on the change, get access to the

1106
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 2: modern platform. Look, the volatility question is definitely there. What

1107
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 2: I will say is that history has shown that those

1108
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 2: cryptocurrencies that have been around longer and have continued to grow,

1109
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 2: and we touched on them, the bitcoins, the ethereums, the solanas,

1110
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 2: the xrps, the volatility is coming down, so they don't

1111
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 2: have the same level of volatility. But just in terms

1112
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 2: of everybody listening, from January twenty twenty to January twenty

1113
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 2: twenty five, so a five year period, Bitcoin went up

1114
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: twelve hundred percent. It's still that fastest growing act we've

1115
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 2: ever seen over that five year period. So even though

1116
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 2: it's had lots of volatility, the worst performing period ever

1117
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 2: for bitcoin, if over a twelve month period, was a

1118
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 2: twenty three percent increase. So I think if you have

1119
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,360
Speaker 2: a look at look at the asset class and had

1120
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: a portion of it in your portfolio, the alpha that

1121
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,520
Speaker 2: most of us talk about in the investment world, that

1122
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 2: that return can do a lot for your investment portfolio,

1123
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 2: even with a very small portion of it. The other

1124
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: thing we're seeing, and you know, we talk about use cases,

1125
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 2: what I'm starting to see in the industry is seeing

1126
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 2: a lot of treasury type balance sheets for companies that

1127
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,800
Speaker 2: may be sitting on cash are allocating five or maybe

1128
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 2: ten percent of that cash to bitcoined.

1129
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: I've sent a few of the big hedge funds doing

1130
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: it too.

1131
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 2: And we're seeing even more charities that have their investment

1132
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 2: pools that are starting to look at maybe five percent,

1133
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: maybe five percent of what their investment is are they

1134
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 2: putting into. In fact, forty seven percent of hedge funds

1135
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 2: now have some sort of crypto investment. So well, that's

1136
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 2: what have to This is happening, and the more they

1137
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 2: put liquidit it into it, the more liquidity goes into

1138
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 2: the currency, the more the currency be stabilized. So and

1139
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 2: the more rises as well, we should go up. That's

1140
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: the mathematical time. And I think you're right Mark, that

1141
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 2: sort of stuff will happen. But we have a four

1142
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: trillion dollar Australian superannuation industry here, which I think is

1143
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 2: a great backbone for retirement savings for Australians, which is

1144
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 2: not touching the asset class yet around that aspect of regulation.

1145
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: So I think once you see them getting into the

1146
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 2: asset class, and the studies that we've seen is over

1147
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 2: eighty percent of people that have superannuation are asking this

1148
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 2: superannuation fund, hey, how do we get access to this

1149
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: asset class. So there's some really they're asking the question.

1150
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:35,760
Speaker 2: So I think what we're seeing is a lot of

1151
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 2: pent up demand. So you know, we talk about the

1152
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 2: future of it. I think there's so many use cases

1153
01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 2: that I've touched on, and I think, you know, broadly

1154
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 2: as an asset class, we're just going to sort of

1155
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: see the mass adoption of it happening over the coming years.

1156
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: Jason Timman, who did a good case to educate us

1157
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: on a crypto but importantly telling us what swift deex

1158
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: is excited about in that currency environment, in that new

1159
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 1: age garrancy that and it is disruptive and swift x

1160
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: is doing a great job. And by the way, thanks

1161
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: very much for being a sponsor. And then because the

1162
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: anal needs sponsors like you, and all of these things

1163
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: are important for our fans, our players, our clubs and

1164
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: just make everything might work much better. So congratulations and

1165
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: thanks very much, thank you Mark,