WEBVTT - #2015 Life After War - Heston Russell

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<v Speaker 1>Good a team. I hope you're bloody terrific. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>another installment of the Youth Project. Tiffany and Cook over

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<v Speaker 1>there at typ Central and Craig Anthony Harper here at

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<v Speaker 1>the other branch in Hampton, doing the very best that

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<v Speaker 1>I can. Just a shitkicker, trying to make ends meat.

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<v Speaker 1>I do what I can, tip, don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I It's been a while, So I h it's been

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<v Speaker 2>a while, hasn't it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, you and I haven't got together since the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast we did all two hours ago. Have you been good?

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<v Speaker 2>I've been good. I squeezed in a little twenty minute

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<v Speaker 2>stroll in what we just learned was eighteen degree sunshine.

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<v Speaker 1>Stroll as in stroll or sprint.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just a stroll, just a stroll. Really, I'm thinking

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go for rid.

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<v Speaker 1>I've had minimum vitamin D today, so I do need

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<v Speaker 1>to get out after this and just walk a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of laps of Hampton so that I might get some

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<v Speaker 1>vitamin D into me. But I tell you bloke who's

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<v Speaker 1>probably lacking none because he's in the fucking Sunshine State

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<v Speaker 1>and was beating his chest and bragging before we got

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<v Speaker 1>to know each other, So this could be a fucking nightmare.

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<v Speaker 1>The next forty five minutes. There we go, Heston, Welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the show, my friend.

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<v Speaker 2>A Craig Tiff, Thank you so much. From twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>degrees up here in Brisy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeh whatever, right, Well, I thought it was about twelve

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<v Speaker 1>or thirteen, and I just looked at the little weather

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<v Speaker 1>thing on my phone and it's eighteen in Melbourne, which

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<v Speaker 1>is pretty much tropical for this time of year. So

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<v Speaker 1>stop complaining, harps, that's the story. How's bris Vegas these days?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's good.

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<v Speaker 1>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>I grew up here and I just moved back here

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<v Speaker 2>April last year, and I met a place called Newstead

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<v Speaker 2>here at the gas works and they really done well

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<v Speaker 2>you activating the Brisy River and so much development going on.

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<v Speaker 2>It's got a good modern feel to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Where did you move back from Sydney?

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<v Speaker 2>So I spent most of my time living down in

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<v Speaker 2>Sydney per my military career and what I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>did for a couple of years after I got out

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<v Speaker 2>from that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now rather than me banging on with something that I

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<v Speaker 1>ripped off the Internet, which I do have steering at

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<v Speaker 1>me from the computer screen next to your face. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>what don't you do with the honor and give us whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>as much or as little as you want on the

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<v Speaker 1>Heston Russell kind of bio, and then we can expand

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<v Speaker 1>and go wherever we want because we have no rules here.

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<v Speaker 1>We can even say fuck. So enjoy that for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Who is he? All right? Heston Russell? So my mum

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<v Speaker 2>had a crush on Charlton Heston. That's where my name

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<v Speaker 2>came from, not from Hector Heston. Bloomenthal was fifteen years

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<v Speaker 2>old when I was born. So just to clear that

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<v Speaker 2>up quickly, we're talking Charlton Heston, Moses, ben Her, all

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<v Speaker 2>that good stuff, pre mra sort of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you now?

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<v Speaker 2>I am thirty six?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh you're My fucking shoes are thirty six. So but

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<v Speaker 1>tell people who Charlton Heston was, because there's quite a

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<v Speaker 1>like tiff. Do you know who he was?

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<v Speaker 2>Naw, he was, you know, he was again bad connotations,

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<v Speaker 2>but he was a Tom Cruise of his apes.

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<v Speaker 1>He was.

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<v Speaker 2>He was ben Her. He was Moses in Moses. He

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<v Speaker 2>was the original lead actor and planet of the Apes.

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<v Speaker 2>He was the male leading role star back in the days.

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<v Speaker 1>He was the goat really of leading men and rock star,

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<v Speaker 1>good looking Hollywood superstars. He was maybe, if not the first,

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<v Speaker 1>definitely one of the first, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean back in the days you know where

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<v Speaker 2>Ben hur was the real life chariot racing scene where

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<v Speaker 2>people died. He was the big blockbuster stuff back before

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<v Speaker 2>there was CGI and everything else in.

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<v Speaker 1>Between, exactly before there were special and effects. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>people used to actually get killed in the filming of movies.

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<v Speaker 2>Tiff no, no looks just google chart and heston and

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<v Speaker 2>he's no Patrick Swayze, Oh, come on, bro, go back

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<v Speaker 2>to his young staff. He was definitely your mother and

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<v Speaker 2>grandmother would have had a.

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<v Speaker 1>Saw what they would have gone off like a frog

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<v Speaker 1>and a sock, your mom and your grandmom. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there was speaking of people dying in movies. Here's some

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<v Speaker 1>trivia no one needs. There's a James Bond movie called

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<v Speaker 1>Live and Let Die. And there's a scene in that

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<v Speaker 1>movie where a boat does a jump and it's the

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<v Speaker 1>longest so literally like off a ramp and can you

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<v Speaker 1>just double check this, Tiff, Live and Let Die boat

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<v Speaker 1>jump actor or driver dies. So the guy that did

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<v Speaker 1>that stunt in the movie and they kept it in

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<v Speaker 1>the movie actually died. Wow, And they kept that. See

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<v Speaker 1>this's got nothing to do with special forces or Glorrior.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no for sure. Look, and I grew up here

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<v Speaker 2>in Brazil, went to school here, got out, went down

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<v Speaker 2>to Canberra for four years. When I joined the Army,

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<v Speaker 2>I went to the Defense Force Academy for three years,

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<v Speaker 2>the Royal Military College for one, got my commission, became

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<v Speaker 2>a Lieutenant lieutenant and went up to Townsville in an

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<v Speaker 2>infantry battalion for three years, where I deployed to East

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<v Speaker 2>Tymoor for Peace tam and that twenty ten I completed

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<v Speaker 2>selection into the Commandos to become a beret qualified commando

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<v Speaker 2>and I spent the majority of my years there where

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<v Speaker 2>I deployed to Afghanistan four times, Iraq, did a whole

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of domestic caniterrorism stuff and stuff in the Asia

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<v Speaker 2>Pacific region. And then I ended up coming back from

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<v Speaker 2>deployment to Iraq, moving over to the US to live

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<v Speaker 2>with my at the time secret boyfriend, and ended up

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<v Speaker 2>moving back to Australia when I brought a brand called

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<v Speaker 2>Barry's boot Camp over here to Australia and Singapore. And

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<v Speaker 2>fast forward lockdowns, breakdowns of relationships, my own sort of

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<v Speaker 2>mental health decline, failing in my transition from the military

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<v Speaker 2>mental health decline and suicidal ideation the end of twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty and ever since then, I've really sort of taken

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<v Speaker 2>the torch to the veteran welfare and support system, namely

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<v Speaker 2>the Department of Veterans Affairs and a bunch of legislation

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<v Speaker 2>which saw me campaign for the Royal Commission into Defense

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<v Speaker 2>and Veterans Suicide, which we won April last year, and

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<v Speaker 2>then also step up post the accusations of war crimes

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<v Speaker 2>against special forces, just to make sure that you know

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<v Speaker 2>we're actually focusing on the full story, that those who

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<v Speaker 2>do have things to enter for are actually gone taken

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<v Speaker 2>to court, not trial by media, while the other three

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<v Speaker 2>thousand plus people who being collectively punished weren't done something.

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<v Speaker 2>We campaigned and succeeded for a few things there. So

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<v Speaker 2>I now run a charity and up here Brisie with

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<v Speaker 2>my little three year old sausage dog Copper.

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<v Speaker 1>Awesome, we'll get onto TiO. What did you find?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I forgot. I forgot half way through what I

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<v Speaker 2>was googling.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't worry about it at the Moment's past.

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<v Speaker 2>Live and let die of boat stunt rather dies. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but I haven't found any you know, just living.

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<v Speaker 1>Live and let die James Bond tragedy or something. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>this really doesn't matter for the podcast, does it. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what we do, has don We just bloody. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit Joe Rogan esque. We're just freestyle and

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<v Speaker 1>we have a chat about anything. But all right, tell

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<v Speaker 1>me about your secret boyfriend. Hang on, tell me, I

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<v Speaker 1>just want to So that wasn't tell us about that?

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<v Speaker 1>How was that? So you obviously couldn't be out and

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<v Speaker 1>open about that.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is the whole thing. I mean, I've just

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<v Speaker 2>spent the last two weeks going into a hand to

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<v Speaker 2>hand conflict over this lighting up the try to remembrance

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<v Speaker 2>rainbow colors type of stuff. I kept myself in close

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<v Speaker 2>at my whole military career. The best part about my

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<v Speaker 2>career was that it focused on what we call the

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<v Speaker 2>daily renewable contract. The focused on how you showed up

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<v Speaker 2>and your confidence and character as opposed to any other

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<v Speaker 2>label that even now you know, you just google me

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<v Speaker 2>and have a look at all the different labels, different

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<v Speaker 2>outlets in the media try and put on me and

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<v Speaker 2>people you know, to define them by traits that we

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<v Speaker 2>were born with, you know, differences that shouldn't define us,

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<v Speaker 2>but I used to define us because we'd like to

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<v Speaker 2>understand things. So I kept myself in the closet because

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<v Speaker 2>it was at a time I only first came comfortable

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<v Speaker 2>with my sexuality twenty fifteen, when I was thirty years old.

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<v Speaker 2>I was actually living in the US for a year

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<v Speaker 2>on exchange for their Special Forces, and it was the

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<v Speaker 2>first time I got to see professional gay men who

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<v Speaker 2>didn't wear their sexuality on their sleeve. I was in

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<v Speaker 2>LA hanging out with Disney producers, you know, big tech

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<v Speaker 2>people who I didn't know they were again until someone

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<v Speaker 2>else told me, and I got to see the difference

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<v Speaker 2>between that and otherwise Oxford Street and Sydney, which is

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<v Speaker 2>all I knew. All I knew was drag queens and middrifts,

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<v Speaker 2>and I do celebrate that side, and I now understand

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<v Speaker 2>that piece of that culture that needs to put their

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<v Speaker 2>identity on display when you've rejected or had people reject

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<v Speaker 2>your identity. But yeah, I kept that to myself. I

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<v Speaker 2>kept my personal life out of my work life. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what made me perform better. And I never wanted anyone

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<v Speaker 2>to judge me on anything other than how I performed

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<v Speaker 2>and showed up each and every day.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, an amazing mate, so good, so good.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's like, what was that? I mean that

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<v Speaker 1>moment that when was that twenty fifteen where you decided

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<v Speaker 1>to open that metaphorphoric door and walk through and go

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<v Speaker 1>that Ah, hey, guess what give us a snapshot of that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well? This is it. It was me becoming comfortable with

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<v Speaker 2>who I was. I was in the US and my

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<v Speaker 2>sister was actually living up in Banff, Canada, and I

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<v Speaker 2>flew to her and she's the first person I told

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<v Speaker 2>and love her. She's four years younger than me, and

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<v Speaker 2>she said, you know, as long as you're not doing

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<v Speaker 2>anything illegal and not hurting anyone, why does it matter

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<v Speaker 2>what you do? And she said, as long as you're okay?

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, she's just absolutely authentically amazing that I

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<v Speaker 2>told mum and she cried because she wanted to have

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<v Speaker 2>grandkids and I told her, apparently you can still do that,

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<v Speaker 2>and then she's all happy again. But what I never did,

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<v Speaker 2>I never came out. I never had a coming out.

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<v Speaker 2>I told those who I wanted to because I felt

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<v Speaker 2>like they needed to know, because otherwise I didn't want

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<v Speaker 2>them finding out for our other people, but I kept

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<v Speaker 2>it completely removed because again I didn't want it to

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<v Speaker 2>be a consideration because when I got back to the

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<v Speaker 2>US Craig, this is when the whole gay marriage vote

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<v Speaker 2>and pleposite was going on, and society was looking for

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<v Speaker 2>examples to use to be symbolic. You know, even within Defense,

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<v Speaker 2>we were looking to celebrate and raise up people who

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<v Speaker 2>were different in this diversity, and that was the last

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<v Speaker 2>thing I wanted into the Defense force. You are praised

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<v Speaker 2>publicly based on your performance, and to identify anyone on

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<v Speaker 2>anything other than the way they perform in their role

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<v Speaker 2>completely go against our culture. The defense culture is service,

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<v Speaker 2>service before self, the team before self. You know, there

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<v Speaker 2>is no individuality in that. There's individual excellence for the

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<v Speaker 2>benefit of the team. And again hence why a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of the sort of culture wars I've been fighting the

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<v Speaker 2>last couple of weeks because I also appreciate in this

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<v Speaker 2>space that unfortunately so much of this comes from trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I know what it was like literally rejecting

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<v Speaker 2>my own sexuality and not being comfortable with myself, and

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<v Speaker 2>how others have had that experience by others, and when

0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:32.520
<v Speaker 2>people come from that place of trauma. It all depends

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<v Speaker 2>who's around them once they reach that level of self actualization,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it turns into entitlement and a stick they use

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<v Speaker 2>to beat others and get back their pound of flesh

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<v Speaker 2>at or it turns into which I was fortunate enough

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<v Speaker 2>to now see it as a lens of responsibility over

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<v Speaker 2>a responsibility to show people that I'm the same person

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<v Speaker 2>to encourage those who feel like they can't be themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>but at all times to focus on that external purpose

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<v Speaker 2>and that team before looking to progress myself based on

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<v Speaker 2>something that I choose to be honest.

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<v Speaker 1>The hell good for you? And so, what's the did

0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.280
<v Speaker 1>you say that currently there's been a little bit of

0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.760
<v Speaker 1>who are around the lighting up that was at the

0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.959
<v Speaker 1>shrine in the city remembrance. Have you had to deal

0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:18.839
<v Speaker 1>with a bit of bullshit in the last couple of weeks?

0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:19.760
<v Speaker 1>If so, what was that?

0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So there's this big the Shrine of Remembrance down

0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.920
<v Speaker 2>there in Melbourne that was going to publicly display the

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:30.040
<v Speaker 2>LGBT rainbow lights on the external of the structure. It's

0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:36.040
<v Speaker 2>doing an internal display, an internal year long display on

0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.680
<v Speaker 2>LGBT i q A plus people within their service. But

0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:42.920
<v Speaker 2>they want to do this big external signaling essentially, and

0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.320
<v Speaker 2>they didn't consult with any of the veteran community. The

0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:48.559
<v Speaker 2>CEO of the shrine isn't a veteran in itself, and

0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:52.040
<v Speaker 2>they didn't consult with Victorian RSL. They didn't consult with

0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.360
<v Speaker 2>many openly gay veterans like myself are out there in

0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.720
<v Speaker 2>the media doing that thing, and a few of us

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.600
<v Speaker 2>just spoke up and said, hey, this isn't what we do.

0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.679
<v Speaker 2>You know, this is virtue signaling. This is jumping on

0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.200
<v Speaker 2>to a lot of these issues that are going on

0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:08.440
<v Speaker 2>in society. And people immediately put up the wall saying

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.640
<v Speaker 2>you know you saying not to do that is homophobic.

0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, hold on, I'm a home so settled down.

0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.520
<v Speaker 2>What it isn't is it's not people understanding our culture.

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.679
<v Speaker 2>It's projecting society's culture onto the shrine of remembrance. Is

0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.240
<v Speaker 2>there to commemorate service and sacrifice and bullets and bombs

0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.160
<v Speaker 2>do not discriminate people do and to individually identify people

0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 2>who served based on a demographic or a piece of

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.200
<v Speaker 2>them that has nothing to do with that responsibility, but

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.480
<v Speaker 2>comes down to entitlement and seeking personal example. I see

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.480
<v Speaker 2>personal promotion goes completely against our culture. And this is

0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.400
<v Speaker 2>at a time where I will take up the fight

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.640
<v Speaker 2>on culture left front and center, because if we don't

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 2>fight for those values that we believe in, like, what

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:48.480
<v Speaker 2>what are we fighting for?

0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:53.480
<v Speaker 1>How ironic? Well, firstly, that was incredibly well articulated, that

0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:59.079
<v Speaker 1>was bloody amazing. But how ironic that you kind of

0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:03.839
<v Speaker 1>get labeled homophobic? Any did you go? Hang on what?

0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, I've even had my own run ins with the

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.640
<v Speaker 2>heads of Marty Gorara and people like this who I've

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.480
<v Speaker 2>been told that I'm not gay enough to be seen

0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.840
<v Speaker 2>as an adequate representation of the community. You know, I

0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.600
<v Speaker 2>don't conform to the stereotype. You know, I come across

0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:24.040
<v Speaker 2>as quote sis male heterosexual who's actually homosexual. And this

0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:25.520
<v Speaker 2>is where I said at people and going, look, I'm

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Hester Russell, and I am who I am each and

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.440
<v Speaker 2>every single day. You know, I'm sorry that I don't

0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 2>conform to what you think. But I have that many

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 2>closeted homosexual gay men reach out to me from militaries

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>across the world saying how just seeing me being a

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 2>normal person and wearing my labels with responsibility not in toilerment,

0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 2>has made them feel so much more comfortable in them

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:51.360
<v Speaker 2>in themselves and not needing that public affirmation to make

0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.000
<v Speaker 2>them feel accepted, which, as we know in this day

0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.720
<v Speaker 2>and age, is what we actually need more young people

0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.480
<v Speaker 2>to do, to not rely on external affirmation, but to

0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.360
<v Speaker 2>be confident with who they are internally at an intrinsic level.

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.360
<v Speaker 1>How dare you not meet their expectations? How dare you

0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 1>not be how people think you? Stop being yourself? You

0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:09.320
<v Speaker 1>fucking rebel?

0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, what I love is, Craig, I haven't even had

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>a personal conversation with these people. It's all based off

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.920
<v Speaker 2>social media snippets, you know. That's the way we live

0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.000
<v Speaker 2>it at the moment. It comes down to what people

0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 2>perceive your brand to be without taking the time to

0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>have a physical conversation.

0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:27.160
<v Speaker 1>By the way, everyone over one hundred combat missions serving

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 1>with the Special Forces. I mean.

0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 2>I used to be cool. I tell people I used

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 2>to be cool.

0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>I think you still wear the cool badge pretty well. Right,

0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about something else. But so so much respect

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 1>for you being so transparent and great with all of that,

0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 1>because we all need to like, it's just nice to

0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.760
<v Speaker 1>know how you think and not that the way you

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.520
<v Speaker 1>think is the only way people should think but for

0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 1>you to know who you are and how you are,

0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.600
<v Speaker 1>and to have clarity about yourself and your identity and

0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 1>to be comfortable in that. I wish we were all

0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 1>that comfortable with whoever we are and how we are.

0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Let's come quickly, job in there, that's come. Like I

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 2>said September August twenty twenty, mate, I sat on my

0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.640
<v Speaker 2>lounge after a whole period of you know, de escalating

0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and living in authentic life to a point where I

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 2>was literally planned on how I wanted to take my

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 2>own life in the service of so many other veterans

0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 2>who are experiencing this mental health and suicide crisis. And

0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.880
<v Speaker 2>when you get to that point where you know, I've

0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:31.760
<v Speaker 2>been in one hundred combat missions, I've had plenty of

0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.560
<v Speaker 2>bad guys shoot at me and hit parts of my

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 2>equipment and all this. But the closest I came to,

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, being removed from this earth was by my

0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:41.440
<v Speaker 2>own hand. And when you reach that point of extreme

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.680
<v Speaker 2>sort of self rejection and get to that mental state

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.240
<v Speaker 2>of a place you really start to you really have

0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 2>the chance to sit there and do that self assessment

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:50.400
<v Speaker 2>and go, you know who I am, what do I

0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.680
<v Speaker 2>stand for what is the authentic version of me, because

0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 2>everything else is causing all of these issues to snowball

0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.320
<v Speaker 2>and progress further. And once you figure that out, and

0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 2>again do so through a lens of responsibility, not a hey,

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:04.520
<v Speaker 2>this is me, fuck you all, but like, this is

0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.360
<v Speaker 2>me and this is my responsibility. All the rest of

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 2>it is a bit of white noise, mate, as long

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 2>as you're working for the right reasons, which is helping others.

0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 1>In my opinion, what's it like being in the middle

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of combat when people are trying to kill you and

0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.720
<v Speaker 1>people are shooting at you? I mean, apart from shit

0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:21.160
<v Speaker 1>and terrifying, can you.

0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 2>Expand the best time in my life?

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>You know? We had a guy on TIF what was

0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 1>his name recently, I shouldn't know his name. He said,

0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 1>you never feel and he'd like you combat whole bunch

0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 1>of times and a similar space, but different story. He said,

0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>you never feel more alive than when someone's trying to

0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:42.400
<v Speaker 1>kill you. That's what he said.

0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I give this talk on leadership. People want to

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.720
<v Speaker 2>talk about combat leadership. Combat leadership is the easiest form

0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.000
<v Speaker 2>of leadership because there's immediate feedback. You know, if you

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:53.920
<v Speaker 2>don't do something you're going to get shot. You make

0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the wrong move, it's going to hurt you or your team.

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:00.400
<v Speaker 1>And when you say easy, come on, bro, So I mean.

0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.400
<v Speaker 2>That's Look, that's what I've been trained to do. You know,

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>my whole career was trained to do that. Imagine training

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 2>for you know, representational rugby and never getting to run

0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 2>on and play. I got to do that, and I

0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:11.920
<v Speaker 2>got to do that with a team that I worked with.

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, eighteen months beforehand. We're at this intuitive level

0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 2>of mental and emotional and physical connection to the way

0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.360
<v Speaker 2>in which we conducted our operations. You know, career leadership

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.240
<v Speaker 2>is the hardest when there's so much more time for

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:30.119
<v Speaker 2>people to question decisions. You know, combat leadership, your stuff up.

0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>Someone gets killed in your career leadership, your stuff up.

0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:35.960
<v Speaker 2>It grows and slowly eats away like a toxic cancer,

0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:40.040
<v Speaker 2>you know. And it's not that purpose and that motivation

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 2>isn't immediately there in front of you to manufacture and

0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.600
<v Speaker 2>generate and inspire people so much more. I often say this,

0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:50.920
<v Speaker 2>particularly the last couple of years of politics and everything else.

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I miss being overseas mate, because everything is so practical

0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 2>and pragmatic and relevant. If I tell people, Hey, I

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 2>need extra helicopter otherwise we can't get our dudes out

0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.640
<v Speaker 2>if someone gets injured. You get it. You know, you're

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:09.320
<v Speaker 2>able to justify these things. You're not sitting there playing politics,

0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, trading one thing for another. It's like, this

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>is why we need this, because this is the mission

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 2>we need to achieve. And you literally are going out

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.679
<v Speaker 2>there with people who are risking their lives to achieve this.

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:21.440
<v Speaker 2>They believe in it that much. And you could just

0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 2>imagine that collective mindset and motivation that comes with that,

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:27.800
<v Speaker 2>as well as being able to do you know what

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:29.960
<v Speaker 2>is a very masculine thing to do, you know, go

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.640
<v Speaker 2>out there and serve and protect and do all those

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.359
<v Speaker 2>sorts of things that you know require us to provide

0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.199
<v Speaker 2>physical courage. And very rarely in modern society do we

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.359
<v Speaker 2>ever get to show physical courage. It's that moral courage

0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 2>that we need. And once you are able to test

0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:46.960
<v Speaker 2>yourself and test yourself with those you love to be

0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.600
<v Speaker 2>around and are trained with that level of again the

0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.439
<v Speaker 2>different levels of self actualization, I realized being able to

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.920
<v Speaker 2>go into that on that one mission, on that one

0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.960
<v Speaker 2>deployment in twenty twelve, you know, we flew sixty seven mission.

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.800
<v Speaker 2>We killed one hundred and seventeen bad guys. I killed

0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 2>my share of those. And none of that is to celebrate.

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.879
<v Speaker 2>It's finally being tested at doing the job you've been

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 2>trained to do for the right reasons. And once you

0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:13.160
<v Speaker 2>do that, it really provides a perspective that is now

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.480
<v Speaker 2>my responsibility to bring forward into everything else we do

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 2>as well. If Nathan Bolton episode eight hundred and seventy two, everyone, jeez,

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:24.399
<v Speaker 2>you guys are busy.

0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, eight seventy two. What are we up to now?

0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Eight nine ish?

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:32.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, ish, yeah.

0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.920
<v Speaker 1>We do one every day, mate, We're a bit crazy.

0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.520
<v Speaker 2>That's great. Gives the mind engaged. There.

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.919
<v Speaker 1>We're three hundred and sixty five days of even Christmas,

0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:43.800
<v Speaker 1>New Year's Day, and New Year's Eve. We put out

0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:49.760
<v Speaker 1>episodes because we can. It's how we roll awesome. It's

0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.920
<v Speaker 1>always interested me. I'm not really asking a question, I'm

0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 1>just thinking out loud about something and maybe you can

0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:59.480
<v Speaker 1>roll off the back wet. I've always been fascinated, like

0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:04.000
<v Speaker 1>we grow in our culture where you know, thankfully now

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 1>there's a focus on you know, bullying and looking after

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.200
<v Speaker 1>people and keeping everyone safe and out of harm's way.

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.680
<v Speaker 1>And don't hurt people, and be kind and be thoughtful,

0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and these are all great ideas and constructs and kind

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.199
<v Speaker 1>of guidance principles. But then you and your mates you

0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:28.720
<v Speaker 1>get trained to kill people, understandably, because like it or not,

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:33.600
<v Speaker 1>that's fucking more. And so all of that kind of

0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 1>cultural and I guess in a way like moral and

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 1>ethical and perhaps spiritual kind of principles that most of

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.119
<v Speaker 1>us grow up don't hurt anyone, and definitely then you

0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:49.400
<v Speaker 1>have to kind of park that and then learn how

0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to kill people?

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:51.240
<v Speaker 2>Is there?

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 1>How does that work? Is their internal conflict? Is there?

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Like fucking don't blah lah lah, don't think about it.

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what how do you manage that? That's

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 1>a really good question. No one has ever actually asked

0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:05.679
<v Speaker 1>me anything that sort of touches on that question. And

0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it all comes down to purpose. So I've

0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:09.639
<v Speaker 1>just saying, you want to hire performance, you need a

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.880
<v Speaker 1>higher purpose. If you know why you're doing what you're

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.080
<v Speaker 1>doing for the right reasons, then all of that sort

0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:17.440
<v Speaker 1>of fades into the white noise. And particularly in.

0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:19.439
<v Speaker 2>Afghanistan, I knew why we were deploying, I knew the

0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.360
<v Speaker 2>mission we were doing, you know, we go out into

0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.440
<v Speaker 2>a target and we'd take fingerprints off things, or we'd

0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:26.959
<v Speaker 2>get someone's phone, and you know, we'd track down and

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.840
<v Speaker 2>capture or kill someone who'd manufactured and detonated an ID

0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 2>in a crowded marketplace and killed women and children, you

0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.840
<v Speaker 2>know the previous month, or you know, had built an

0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:38.679
<v Speaker 2>ID that had killed one of our guys or an

0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>American guys. You know, we didn't just go out there

0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:45.239
<v Speaker 2>indiscriminately getting people. It would take us a month, you know,

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.159
<v Speaker 2>or just at least a few weeks to develop and

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:51.120
<v Speaker 2>get all the intelligence together to justify these people as

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 2>properly bad people that we needed to capture or kill.

0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Fast forward through to my last appoyment to Iraq. We

0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:03.080
<v Speaker 2>were fighting isis dash Literally, the best way I can

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:06.440
<v Speaker 2>put it, is the true manifestation of evil on this earth.

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I won't tell you some of the things they did

0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.879
<v Speaker 2>to innocent women and children, but I've actually never felt

0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:14.320
<v Speaker 2>more there. I say it righteous in actually going out there,

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.679
<v Speaker 2>and the most enjoyment I've ever taken from my career

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.359
<v Speaker 2>is taking the fight to those people who are trying

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 2>to persecute fully and kill those who can't defend themselves

0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.280
<v Speaker 2>and being able to protect those who can't defend themselves

0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.440
<v Speaker 2>is where so much of that moral authority essentially comes

0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>from to enable us to do that, and again putting

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 2>that purpose and your immediate team before yourself. None of

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 2>those situations sort of ever registered into a personal mental

0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 2>health or an emotional health aspect for me, and I've

0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 2>still to this day have absolutely zero issues with any

0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of the combat and carnage I've seen. To be honest,

0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 2>I miss that all immersive and inspirational purpose and team.

0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:56.600
<v Speaker 2>If anything, you.

0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Know, it's weird. I mean that love and caring, compassionate

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>brother heston. What's weird is that people like you perform

0:23:05.520 --> 0:23:09.480
<v Speaker 1>great under pressure, but the average person or many average people,

0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:14.480
<v Speaker 1>don't perform really well under pressure. But then sometimes people,

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.080
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily you, but sometimes people like you come back

0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:21.520
<v Speaker 1>to mundanity suburbia where there's no war, there's no one

0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 1>trying to kill you, there's no immediate threat, and you

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.679
<v Speaker 1>take away the pressure and they're not as good as

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:30.640
<v Speaker 1>when they're under pressure. Is that right?

0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.160
<v Speaker 2>That's where I struggle, mate, That's where I literally struggled

0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:36.000
<v Speaker 2>in my mental health. I struggled for relevance. I went

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 2>from planning and coordinating gigantic missions, you know, doing no

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.200
<v Speaker 2>fail stuff through to waking up and the biggest responsibility

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:46.800
<v Speaker 2>I had was taking my dog for a walk that day.

0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:49.320
<v Speaker 2>That's where I struggled And what I realized is I

0:23:49.320 --> 0:23:53.119
<v Speaker 2>struggle without having a team. I struggle without having that purpose.

0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:57.879
<v Speaker 2>I struggle without having responsibility. And people don't rise to

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the occasion. They fall to their level of training. I've

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:02.639
<v Speaker 2>been taught that time and time again, and before I

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:05.080
<v Speaker 2>deployed on my first trip to Afghanistan, I've been through

0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:07.920
<v Speaker 2>seven years of training in the Army, eighteen months worth

0:24:07.920 --> 0:24:11.520
<v Speaker 2>of intensive training to do our job. There's so much

0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 2>that goes into that. It's not like you're just thrown

0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:16.760
<v Speaker 2>into battle in my role to go out there and

0:24:16.800 --> 0:24:20.320
<v Speaker 2>do it. So everything else is that de escalation and

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:23.840
<v Speaker 2>that decompression from that, and that is, to be honest,

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:27.040
<v Speaker 2>where defense actually is really failing a lot of soldiers

0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 2>in that sort of transition from defense process is one.

0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.080
<v Speaker 1>Of the challenges. Before I asked this question, So you

0:24:34.200 --> 0:24:38.479
<v Speaker 1>retired as you were a Special Forces major? Is that correct?

0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 1>How old were you when you became a major?

0:24:43.040 --> 0:24:45.080
<v Speaker 2>I was thirty one?

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Is that young? That seems really young.

0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I sort of. Well, going to school here in Queensland,

0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I graduated, I turned seventeen in November and when then

0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 2>went straight down and I passed selection as a twenty

0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:01.479
<v Speaker 2>four year old. Always been the sort of youngest in

0:25:01.760 --> 0:25:03.640
<v Speaker 2>everything that I've done. I was the youngest in my platoon.

0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:06.280
<v Speaker 2>But that's that's pretty much the absolute youngest you could

0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:06.919
<v Speaker 2>physically be.

0:25:07.520 --> 0:25:12.840
<v Speaker 1>Wow, amazing. We talk a bit on the show about identity.

0:25:12.880 --> 0:25:14.840
<v Speaker 1>While we talk more than a bit, but you know,

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:17.439
<v Speaker 1>that sense of who am I and what defines me?

0:25:17.480 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 1>And where do I get my sense of self from?

0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely?

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, And when I was a fat, insecure kid,

0:25:25.000 --> 0:25:26.880
<v Speaker 1>I had all this weight and then I last weight.

0:25:26.960 --> 0:25:28.600
<v Speaker 1>Then I used to for a long time we've spoken

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:30.560
<v Speaker 1>about this, I used to get my identity from what

0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:32.919
<v Speaker 1>I look like, my body and my biceps and all

0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:35.800
<v Speaker 1>that shit, and you know, then it was kind of

0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 1>from my business. And when you're a soldier and you

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 1>do what you do, it's kind of what you do

0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.359
<v Speaker 1>is pretty much who you are to a level. Am

0:25:45.400 --> 0:25:45.960
<v Speaker 1>I correct?

0:25:46.280 --> 0:25:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely mate? And that is where I've struggled my entire life.

0:25:50.160 --> 0:25:54.959
<v Speaker 1>And so then you're this Special Forces fucking literally trained

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:59.480
<v Speaker 1>killer who's done, you know, gone over there to serve,

0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 1>by the way, thank you for your service, gone over

0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>there and done all this incredible shit on our behalf.

0:26:04.840 --> 0:26:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Literally put your life on the line over one hundred times.

0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:11.120
<v Speaker 1>And then you come back and it's Wednesday, and you're

0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:14.520
<v Speaker 1>on the couch and you're not a soldier, and you're like, fuck,

0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 1>is it Netflix or is it a pizza? Or is

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:17.159
<v Speaker 1>it both?

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Is there a bit of that that goes well, this

0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.000
<v Speaker 2>is my struggles And you've hit the nail on the head.

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.720
<v Speaker 2>The military is fantastic at grabbing people off the street

0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:28.679
<v Speaker 2>and issuing them with a collective identity that makes you

0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:32.000
<v Speaker 2>subordinate to your team and subordinate to the purpose. What

0:26:32.119 --> 0:26:36.120
<v Speaker 2>they don't do is successfully reconstitute that individual identity when

0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 2>you leave, and you leave a giant organization that is

0:26:39.800 --> 0:26:42.679
<v Speaker 2>a not for profit, it is a full purpose organization,

0:26:43.080 --> 0:26:45.200
<v Speaker 2>and throws you into a world which is arguably for

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 2>profit in employment at least, and you are unable to

0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:51.320
<v Speaker 2>find that same level of personal satisfaction. And for me, mate,

0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:55.359
<v Speaker 2>I left the military and threw myself headlong into my

0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 2>identity being a gay man, you know, finally accepting myself

0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:02.280
<v Speaker 2>and in joining so much that I had deprived myself.

0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:04.639
<v Speaker 2>I fell in love. I'd never been in love throughout

0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:07.679
<v Speaker 2>my personal career, and then society wants that to be

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:11.560
<v Speaker 2>your label. And I've made my relationship become literally my identity.

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:14.000
<v Speaker 2>And then when I lost that relationship for four years,

0:27:14.400 --> 0:27:16.719
<v Speaker 2>I got sent back to that identity crisis. And what

0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I've learned time and time again is it then comes

0:27:18.920 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 2>down to the community you've built around you. Everything has

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:24.640
<v Speaker 2>to come back to those you surround yourselves that help

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.640
<v Speaker 2>you to either find your identity again or find your purpose.

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.720
<v Speaker 2>But everything does come back to who you are outside

0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 2>of any other label. And that's where you heard me

0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 2>say before I finally reached the point where I understand

0:27:35.840 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 2>that I am Heston Russell, and I get back to

0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:41.959
<v Speaker 2>that daily renewable contract. The day you rest on your

0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:44.960
<v Speaker 2>laurels is the day you become irrelevant. But it's so

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.840
<v Speaker 2>hard in this society. Mate. You know, before every interview,

0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>before every whatever, people like, hey, how do you want

0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:52.119
<v Speaker 2>us to refer to you? Hey? Tell us about you.

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.160
<v Speaker 2>It's like, what parts you know? I could stuff up tomorrow?

0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:59.680
<v Speaker 2>In my entire life of successes, I mean absolutely nothing

0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:03.040
<v Speaker 2>in this society. That's just show short term focused at

0:28:03.080 --> 0:28:06.280
<v Speaker 2>the moment, and that's an opportunity, but it's actually massive

0:28:06.280 --> 0:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>threat and you feel like it's his inauthenticity piece. Mate,

0:28:09.480 --> 0:28:11.600
<v Speaker 2>when I when I transition to the to the gay

0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:15.639
<v Speaker 2>version of me, everything is measured by you know, biceps,

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>speedos at pool parties, what your last Instagram post is.

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.199
<v Speaker 2>You're comparing yourself to the last version of yourself. And

0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 2>that's with these layers of in all authenticity creep in

0:28:24.920 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 2>social media is one of the worst things for it.

0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:29.760
<v Speaker 2>And just cutting through all that and you know, creating

0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.880
<v Speaker 2>your own content based off what you're doing as opposed

0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:35.400
<v Speaker 2>to just creating content for the sake of content. That's

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:37.000
<v Speaker 2>what sort of really helped me get back on this

0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:37.600
<v Speaker 2>right narrow.

0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Everyone that I talked to that's been in the military,

0:28:42.880 --> 0:28:47.400
<v Speaker 1>there's there's this I suppose it was the same for you,

0:28:47.440 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 1>but they seem to have this this level of connection

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:59.600
<v Speaker 1>and trust and loyalty with their you know, with their colleagues,

0:29:00.800 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 1>the tribe, with their tribe. Thank you like this. There's

0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:10.040
<v Speaker 1>this loyalty and trust and connection and I guess understanding

0:29:10.640 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 1>that you can't get outside of the military. Is that

0:29:14.160 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 1>a struggle.

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's when you've been through adversity with people. You know,

0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 2>true bonds are formed when you're under pressure, be that

0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.800
<v Speaker 2>physical pressure, be that you know, out in the cold,

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 2>shivering and feeling that freeze to death. You know, you

0:29:28.200 --> 0:29:30.240
<v Speaker 2>form bods when someone you're snuggling up to in the

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:34.800
<v Speaker 2>same sleeping bag just don't have those same pressure. So

0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 2>same particularly physical and mental pressures on the outside that

0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I've experienced during my time in service. A lot of

0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.600
<v Speaker 2>people have gone through some of those personal, mental and

0:29:44.640 --> 0:29:49.120
<v Speaker 2>emotional pressures doing COVID lockdown, feeling alone, isolated, everything else

0:29:49.120 --> 0:29:52.640
<v Speaker 2>in between, but particularly that physicality and the endorphins and

0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:55.680
<v Speaker 2>all the chemicals that go with going through that physical

0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:59.120
<v Speaker 2>adversity together and you know, training and progressing and being

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>like minded with it. You just don't find that on

0:30:01.720 --> 0:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>the outside because people's interactions are either within work, which

0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:08.600
<v Speaker 2>is designed for a purpose, or outside socially, where you

0:30:08.640 --> 0:30:10.760
<v Speaker 2>know you pulled in so many different directions. It's such

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 2>a finite and focused and high precious sort of situation,

0:30:14.680 --> 0:30:17.720
<v Speaker 2>and those bonds are for much faster and stronger.

0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:21.880
<v Speaker 1>How did your tribe respond when you came out?

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.120
<v Speaker 2>Well again, so I never had a whole coming out thing,

0:30:26.240 --> 0:30:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and I just gradually let people you know, I was

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:33.000
<v Speaker 2>just more liberal on my social media. Essentially, I made

0:30:33.000 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the rule that anyone who ever asked me, I'd tell

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:39.160
<v Speaker 2>them absolutely upfront. And you know, I actually attended a

0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 2>wedding with some of my old platoon guys that we

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:43.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of post all this and the amount of guys

0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.200
<v Speaker 2>who came up to me and just be like, dude,

0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 2>why the fuck didn't you tell us? Yeah, And it

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:52.840
<v Speaker 2>was from a place of we could only imagine what

0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>that was like for you, holding yourself back, like we

0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.760
<v Speaker 2>are so sorry that you didn't feel supported enough to

0:30:58.960 --> 0:31:01.080
<v Speaker 2>come out and be like that. That's so I said, hey, no, no, stop,

0:31:01.200 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm the one who wasn't comfortable with me. They have

0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 2>been the most amazing people, particularly in the Special Force

0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>aside of the house. You know, you're performing at the

0:31:09.000 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 2>elite level. And this is what I've realized. I was

0:31:12.240 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 2>bringing ninety five, ninety six percent of myself to everything

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that I was doing, but there was still, you know,

0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:18.320
<v Speaker 2>that four or five percent of me that was holding

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:22.560
<v Speaker 2>myself back. And my regret is that I hadn't allowed

0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 2>myself to be fully one hundred percent emotionally and mentally

0:31:25.000 --> 0:31:27.440
<v Speaker 2>aligned to what I was doing. But that's my own

0:31:27.480 --> 0:31:28.280
<v Speaker 2>development phase.

0:31:29.240 --> 0:31:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that if you had come out to them,

0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 1>I don't know earlier I'm not. I don't know if

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 1>this is I'm not suggesting you should or shouldn't do anything,

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:42.120
<v Speaker 1>but could that have proven a distraction and maybe that's

0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 1>why you didn't do it?

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Or yeah, again, it was all timing. So I came

0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:49.480
<v Speaker 2>back from the US at the end of twenty fifteen

0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:53.360
<v Speaker 2>fully prepared to live an openly gay life. But again,

0:31:53.920 --> 0:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>who you sleep with and what your sexual preference is

0:31:56.360 --> 0:32:00.640
<v Speaker 2>completely irrelevant to day to day. Within the military was

0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:03.600
<v Speaker 2>such a high operationally focused unit that you're not sitting

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.960
<v Speaker 2>there going, oh, by the way, guys, I'm gay and

0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:09.520
<v Speaker 2>like accept it. Like that again goes against our entire culture.

0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:13.600
<v Speaker 2>But the issue was that society was reaching in looking

0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:16.400
<v Speaker 2>for diversity for diversity's sake and also to progress those

0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 2>who were over those who weren't. At that same time

0:32:20.160 --> 0:32:22.960
<v Speaker 2>I was dealing with, I was running the commando selection course.

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:25.960
<v Speaker 2>We had just opened it up for women to finally

0:32:25.960 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 2>be allowed to apply for the selection course, and I

0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 2>was told by our general that I was to reserve

0:32:31.360 --> 0:32:35.560
<v Speaker 2>ten positions for female candidates, which for a selection course

0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:39.200
<v Speaker 2>goes completely against everything. There is a standard. That standard

0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:43.080
<v Speaker 2>comes from the operational requirement backcasting. And I did a

0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:46.600
<v Speaker 2>public consultation with the other support staff females in our unit,

0:32:46.640 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 2>and they burned it down in flames. They said, don't

0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:53.959
<v Speaker 2>you dare undermine our success by giving us a quota.

0:32:54.080 --> 0:32:56.440
<v Speaker 2>We want to earn that off our own bat and

0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.200
<v Speaker 2>particularly in that society. And that was that same sort

0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:01.360
<v Speaker 2>of context for me. There was also that time and

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.520
<v Speaker 2>space relevance where it just wasn't the right time to

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:07.200
<v Speaker 2>do that publicly. But the biggest thing was, Mate, I

0:33:07.280 --> 0:33:10.680
<v Speaker 2>had to become comfortable with it first. It's only once

0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.560
<v Speaker 2>we can become comfortable with ourselves can when you actually

0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.760
<v Speaker 2>withstand if people can't tolerate or it's just something new

0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:17.880
<v Speaker 2>for them to catch up on.

0:33:18.720 --> 0:33:22.000
<v Speaker 1>And when you think about it, it is, I mean,

0:33:22.160 --> 0:33:25.480
<v Speaker 1>for ninety nine percent of you know what I do

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 1>in my job, what you do in your job, what

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Tiff does, maybe even nearly it's not relevant. Like I've

0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:34.920
<v Speaker 1>never walked into a meeting or an environment or a

0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:38.960
<v Speaker 1>workshop or a conference and made a point to let

0:33:39.000 --> 0:33:42.720
<v Speaker 1>anyone know that, by the way, I'm heterosexual. I just

0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:45.280
<v Speaker 1>thought i'd put it out like it's not a thing,

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:48.600
<v Speaker 1>is it? So you shouldn't need to feel on any way.

0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, like required to open that door because

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:55.520
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't really make any difference to what you do.

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.400
<v Speaker 2>And that's my aspiration, you know. I said to one

0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:00.480
<v Speaker 2>of my guys, is like, hey, mate, why don't you

0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:02.480
<v Speaker 2>just come out and tell everyone about it. I'm like, mate,

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 2>do you come out and tell people you're heterosexual? And

0:34:05.200 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 2>he's like no. I said, exactly, why the fuck do

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:09.920
<v Speaker 2>I need to tell people sexual preferences? And he just

0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.799
<v Speaker 2>you watched them. He sat back and went, I don't know,

0:34:12.840 --> 0:34:14.640
<v Speaker 2>it's just what everyone does. I said, why do.

0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:17.399
<v Speaker 1>They do it? Yeah, because why do they do it?

0:34:17.480 --> 0:34:18.480
<v Speaker 1>What's your take on that?

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a way in which they feel permission to

0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 2>I guess progress that next level of self acceptance for

0:34:25.160 --> 0:34:28.759
<v Speaker 2>many many people. Unfortunately, it is also a way in

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:32.120
<v Speaker 2>which many people use to gain attention and gain affirmation.

0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Per our love languages. People need affirmation. They need to

0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:38.360
<v Speaker 2>feel permission to be different because they're made to feel different.

0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.720
<v Speaker 2>They're not sat down and taught hey, you know, difference

0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:44.239
<v Speaker 2>and diversity is actually empowerment, but you have to use

0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:47.000
<v Speaker 2>it with responsibility, you know, particularly if it's not something

0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.439
<v Speaker 2>you've earned, it's something you've been born with. My whole

0:34:49.440 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 2>aspiration is for this just to be so normalized and

0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:54.360
<v Speaker 2>we focus on the content and character of people, not

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:58.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, their sexual preference, you know, religion, skin color,

0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:00.879
<v Speaker 2>all these things. When I was a kid, we'll talk,

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:02.719
<v Speaker 2>never judge a book by its cover, But all we

0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:04.719
<v Speaker 2>do in society these days is put more and more

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.120
<v Speaker 2>labels on that cover and make that the measure of

0:35:07.120 --> 0:35:07.560
<v Speaker 2>the person.

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now, everyone, I've just looked at Heston's instapage and

0:35:13.760 --> 0:35:17.320
<v Speaker 1>hang on, steady on Champ. He's nine hundred people away

0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 1>from one hundred thousand. He's ninety nine point one thousand.

0:35:22.920 --> 0:35:27.359
<v Speaker 1>So jump on, follow, Follow the little fucker, give him

0:35:27.360 --> 0:35:29.239
<v Speaker 1>a bit of love, send him a message and tell

0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:32.080
<v Speaker 1>him he's ace because he's killing this podcast. Tell him

0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.399
<v Speaker 1>how awesome he is. But most importantly, hit the follow.

0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Hang on, I'm going to do it right now. There's

0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 1>you can you see the blue? Yeah? I can right

0:35:41.160 --> 0:35:45.000
<v Speaker 1>now live follow and I don't follow. Many people only

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:48.879
<v Speaker 1>follow about two hundred. Oh wow, so you are now

0:35:49.280 --> 0:35:51.520
<v Speaker 1>part of my tribe, whether or not you like it.

0:35:51.640 --> 0:35:54.799
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, mate. I was at one hundred and four

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:58.800
<v Speaker 2>thousand before the election, and then I got shadow bound apparently,

0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:02.040
<v Speaker 2>and I'm just dropping numbers every week, really blue tick

0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:03.879
<v Speaker 2>and all, mate, like it means nothing if.

0:36:03.800 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 1>You turn that around, peepsy, let's turn the big steering

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:11.680
<v Speaker 1>wheel around all in the ring. A couple of questions,

0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:15.520
<v Speaker 1>So tell me you came out of the military. Was

0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:21.640
<v Speaker 1>it in fifteen, twenty, seventeen, seventeen? Okay, so five years ago.

0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Now there's a weird question. But coming out of the military.

0:36:25.920 --> 0:36:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Before you came out of the military, you were obviously

0:36:29.120 --> 0:36:31.640
<v Speaker 1>had an idea in your mind of what that would

0:36:31.680 --> 0:36:34.359
<v Speaker 1>be like. Yeah, so the idea of what it would

0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:38.000
<v Speaker 1>be like post military. Give me a comparison with how

0:36:38.040 --> 0:36:42.160
<v Speaker 1>it actually was. How was it different to what you expected?

0:36:43.239 --> 0:36:46.399
<v Speaker 2>Two key things. One was, again in the military, you're

0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:49.320
<v Speaker 2>working for purpose, whereas on the outside everything is based

0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 2>on profit and there was a big sort of personal

0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:54.680
<v Speaker 2>disconnect with that. I never had to do that before.

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:59.320
<v Speaker 2>And second was just the value set. So service within

0:36:59.400 --> 0:37:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the military, particularly where I was, came down to responsibility, selflessness, leadership, teamwork.

0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.800
<v Speaker 2>They were those sort of core values, you know, courage,

0:37:07.840 --> 0:37:11.040
<v Speaker 2>physical and moral courage. And then into the outside world,

0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:15.480
<v Speaker 2>responsibility is replaced with entitlement. Selflessness is resplace, is replaced

0:37:15.480 --> 0:37:19.080
<v Speaker 2>with selfishness. You know, teamwork is replaced with dog eat

0:37:19.080 --> 0:37:23.200
<v Speaker 2>dog Leadership is replaced with risk avoidance, you know, abdication,

0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:27.960
<v Speaker 2>passing the buck. There's no accountability, all these things. And

0:37:28.040 --> 0:37:31.800
<v Speaker 2>so I found that completely different. And it's funny because

0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:33.799
<v Speaker 2>even though you're in the military, you're still living in

0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 2>wider society, but your outside living is more dwelling before

0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>you go back into it. At least it was for me,

0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:44.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, there was really that rejection of those values.

0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:46.680
<v Speaker 2>But unfortunately, what we're also trained to do so well

0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>is to assimilate into our new environment. And I found

0:37:50.680 --> 0:37:54.359
<v Speaker 2>myself getting on that gravy train, becoming entitled, getting you know,

0:37:54.400 --> 0:37:57.640
<v Speaker 2>fixated on how I looked, going out to parties, you know,

0:37:57.880 --> 0:38:00.640
<v Speaker 2>recreational drugs, all those things that are in society that

0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:03.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, we were drug tested every week on our

0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:06.840
<v Speaker 2>special Force of stuff, things like this, but you never taught,

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 2>you never had those adult conversations like hey, you're going

0:38:09.239 --> 0:38:11.320
<v Speaker 2>to go out in Sydney and every person, every bathroom

0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:13.600
<v Speaker 2>is going to be doing this stuff, and that's actually

0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.960
<v Speaker 2>the worst thing for your mental health as opposed to,

0:38:16.760 --> 0:38:19.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, just getting caught up in the short term

0:38:20.080 --> 0:38:22.879
<v Speaker 2>existence of it. And it really was a struggle. And

0:38:23.000 --> 0:38:26.359
<v Speaker 2>it was this whole collision of what we call this

0:38:27.239 --> 0:38:30.920
<v Speaker 2>moral injury or this dislocation from your values, combined with

0:38:31.520 --> 0:38:34.240
<v Speaker 2>being lonely, not having a team, not having a purpose

0:38:34.239 --> 0:38:36.799
<v Speaker 2>that understood you at an intrinsic level, with everything else

0:38:36.840 --> 0:38:39.919
<v Speaker 2>being focused so extremely and it was a whole new

0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:40.880
<v Speaker 2>identity shift.

0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:44.919
<v Speaker 1>Was there a this is a dramatic question, but fuck

0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:48.600
<v Speaker 1>it was there a grieving? Like when do you feel

0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:52.319
<v Speaker 1>like there was a grief period? Because there was a

0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:54.040
<v Speaker 1>loss or a sense of loss.

0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 2>I think, particularly for me, I've been operating at such

0:38:57.160 --> 0:38:59.560
<v Speaker 2>a high and fast level that you know, it's the

0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I call pendulum swing. You've got to swing away. And

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:04.759
<v Speaker 2>I really enjoyed that first year living in the US. Again,

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:08.799
<v Speaker 2>I'd never been personally in love or fulfilled my personal needs.

0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:11.759
<v Speaker 2>I always focus on those professional so I really loved

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:14.200
<v Speaker 2>and enjoyed that. But then once that pendulum starts to

0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:16.399
<v Speaker 2>swing back to its resting place, you sort of sit

0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:19.399
<v Speaker 2>there going well, this is all enjoyment and I fulfilled that,

0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:23.000
<v Speaker 2>but I'm actually missing that deeper level of purpose and

0:39:23.080 --> 0:39:26.200
<v Speaker 2>value and giving back and service. I was missing that

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:28.799
<v Speaker 2>element of being able to serve, to put the needs

0:39:28.840 --> 0:39:31.200
<v Speaker 2>of others before me, And that is where I have

0:39:31.320 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 2>really struggled. And that's where I missed my tribe. That's

0:39:33.719 --> 0:39:37.360
<v Speaker 2>where I drive past and army barracks and remember and

0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:39.840
<v Speaker 2>wish I could drive on and go do PT in

0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:41.919
<v Speaker 2>the morning at seven point thirty, which is the time

0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 2>every base does PT. Just go join in a group

0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:47.920
<v Speaker 2>and go do PT. Go and be equal, go and

0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:50.959
<v Speaker 2>be accountable. Do you miss that? You really do miss

0:39:50.960 --> 0:39:51.799
<v Speaker 2>that authenticity?

0:39:52.480 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 1>And so as part of your mission purpose fill in

0:39:57.000 --> 0:40:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the blank, to create your own tribe it is.

0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 2>And I struggle with that, mate, And I you know,

0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I have my meeting, my weekly meeting with my psychiatrist

0:40:06.520 --> 0:40:07.799
<v Speaker 2>actually before having miss chat.

0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you're going to talk to a psych before

0:40:10.680 --> 0:40:12.960
<v Speaker 1>you talk to me, that's a great time, because I'm

0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.720
<v Speaker 1>a fucking hand I'm a handful. So well done.

0:40:15.960 --> 0:40:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. My issue these days is again my love language

0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:21.360
<v Speaker 2>is active service, and I love doing things for people.

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:23.880
<v Speaker 2>So I continue to build relationships based on me being

0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:26.440
<v Speaker 2>able to do things for them and in order in return,

0:40:26.760 --> 0:40:29.200
<v Speaker 2>people get coming to me looking for ways in which

0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:30.759
<v Speaker 2>I can help them. But the way in which I

0:40:30.800 --> 0:40:33.319
<v Speaker 2>feel love is actually quarterly time. People who want to

0:40:33.360 --> 0:40:35.160
<v Speaker 2>be around me and be with me just for the

0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:37.360
<v Speaker 2>sake of hanging out with you. Again, That's why I

0:40:37.360 --> 0:40:39.520
<v Speaker 2>have a three year old dog. So I actually really

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:42.600
<v Speaker 2>struggle informing those connections with people that aren't based off

0:40:42.640 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 2>any form of service. That's where you know, I contemplate

0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:48.440
<v Speaker 2>going back and joining a rugby team or joining a

0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:52.000
<v Speaker 2>water polo team. Finding that camaraderie where your actions are

0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 2>that which define you as opposed to anything you say

0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.400
<v Speaker 2>or any perceptions otherwise, something I'm still working on and

0:40:59.440 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I really need to.

0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you live down here and not up in

0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 1>the bloody tropics, you know we could hang.

0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Out coming down there in November, putting together.

0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Hit me out buddy, you and me breakfast arm wrestling

0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:17.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, no arm wrestling, I reckon you might have it.

0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.279
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, So as much or as little as you

0:41:22.320 --> 0:41:27.439
<v Speaker 1>want to tell me about twenty twenty when you momentarily thought, fuck,

0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:28.760
<v Speaker 1>do I want to be here anymore?

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Yep? So I literally had been other day at the

0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:37.960
<v Speaker 2>park of the day with my dog and came home

0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:39.479
<v Speaker 2>and I've got a message from one of my former

0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:43.799
<v Speaker 2>guys who told me that a person we knew who

0:41:43.800 --> 0:41:46.759
<v Speaker 2>I deployed Canisteen with beforehand and tried to take his

0:41:46.800 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 2>own life and tried to overdose, and he had his

0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.960
<v Speaker 2>young son in the back room. And there was a

0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 2>long string of by that stage, known more guys who'd

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:59.080
<v Speaker 2>taken their own lives than we lost in combat, And

0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:01.960
<v Speaker 2>there were so many factors going on. I was in

0:42:02.080 --> 0:42:04.080
<v Speaker 2>eighteen months worth of a fight with the Department of

0:42:04.160 --> 0:42:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Veterans Affairs. I was alone. I was suffering from depression

0:42:08.080 --> 0:42:11.520
<v Speaker 2>anxiety that I refused to ever see a psychologist to

0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:15.160
<v Speaker 2>admit any weakness as opposed to vulnerability. And it took

0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:17.480
<v Speaker 2>me to a place where I just sort of sat

0:42:17.520 --> 0:42:20.600
<v Speaker 2>down and applied every ounce of my professional planning skills

0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:24.280
<v Speaker 2>to pull apart what was going on. And the scariest

0:42:24.280 --> 0:42:27.560
<v Speaker 2>part is I had the sharpest moment of clarity I've

0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.840
<v Speaker 2>had I'd had in you know, three or four years,

0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:33.680
<v Speaker 2>where every ounce of me decided that what I needed

0:42:33.719 --> 0:42:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to do was to be the next veteran to take

0:42:36.040 --> 0:42:38.319
<v Speaker 2>their own life. I needed to write a letter to

0:42:39.040 --> 0:42:41.799
<v Speaker 2>Senator Lambee, who I'd connected with, and all of this

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:44.480
<v Speaker 2>in order to and at this stage, I had, you know,

0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:47.239
<v Speaker 2>seventy five thousand followers on social media, and I'd been

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:49.600
<v Speaker 2>on the news a couple of times supporting veteran things,

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:53.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I was this picture of biceps and

0:42:53.480 --> 0:42:55.400
<v Speaker 2>Barry's boot camp and all this stuff as well. I

0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 2>needed to use my profile to be that next veteran

0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:01.360
<v Speaker 2>suicide that would finally get cut through because I was

0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:03.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, when people say this, I was one of

0:43:03.320 --> 0:43:05.600
<v Speaker 2>those people that no one would have ever expected it

0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to sort of happened to. I wasn't sitting there drinking

0:43:08.000 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 2>myself into misery. I was excelling at the top of

0:43:11.520 --> 0:43:14.799
<v Speaker 2>my performance. And you know, for that five or ten

0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 2>minutes or fifteen minutes, whatever it was, I was sitting

0:43:17.440 --> 0:43:21.080
<v Speaker 2>there so clear and set on my mission and purpose.

0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:24.240
<v Speaker 2>And it really helped me appreciate and understand that suicide

0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:27.360
<v Speaker 2>can just happen like that. You know, it can just

0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:30.279
<v Speaker 2>take that mental shift where you literally think you are

0:43:30.360 --> 0:43:35.279
<v Speaker 2>doing the right thing. And as a story goes, my

0:43:35.360 --> 0:43:38.080
<v Speaker 2>dog came and literally put his head on my lap.

0:43:38.120 --> 0:43:42.080
<v Speaker 2>It was my time to feed him. And as I've realized,

0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:44.680
<v Speaker 2>for me, it was that service someone else needed something

0:43:44.680 --> 0:43:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of me. That sort of actually snapped me out of

0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that moment. And I sat there and I read the

0:43:48.040 --> 0:43:50.080
<v Speaker 2>email that I'd written in all of this and just went,

0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:53.319
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck are you doing, you idiot? Why are

0:43:53.360 --> 0:43:56.239
<v Speaker 2>you outsourcing? Just cut through? Why not get out there

0:43:56.280 --> 0:43:58.799
<v Speaker 2>and be that voice yourself? And that was that.

0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, mate, we're very glad you made that decision. And

0:44:03.920 --> 0:44:04.960
<v Speaker 1>what's your dog's name?

0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Copper? Copper, like the color like the metal copper.

0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, thank god? Is it a he?

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hey, he's a good boy.

0:44:13.160 --> 0:44:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank god he came over and interrupted you, bloody the

0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:20.000
<v Speaker 1>rabbit hole that you were going down. Thank goodness for him,

0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:24.320
<v Speaker 1>and thank goodness. All right, now tell us about Voice

0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:26.000
<v Speaker 1>of a Veteran. What is it? What do you do,

0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:29.439
<v Speaker 1>how does it work? How can we help if we can?

0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So, Voice of a Veteran actually just ended up

0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:34.880
<v Speaker 2>being a podcast and a social brand that I started

0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:38.120
<v Speaker 2>up to start talking about my own mental health decline.

0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I then even then needed a platform that wasn't me

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:45.319
<v Speaker 2>talking directly talking from a platform as a veteran, and

0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:48.520
<v Speaker 2>just took off when me telling my mental health story

0:44:48.560 --> 0:44:52.240
<v Speaker 2>really started to help so many other alpha masculine males,

0:44:52.440 --> 0:44:55.799
<v Speaker 2>and then very strong other females step forward and say, hey,

0:44:55.840 --> 0:44:58.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, I now have mission to acknowledge that I've

0:44:58.280 --> 0:45:00.840
<v Speaker 2>been struggling, and part of it has then been making

0:45:00.880 --> 0:45:03.319
<v Speaker 2>sure that the continuation of that journey for them is

0:45:03.360 --> 0:45:06.600
<v Speaker 2>through a lens of responsibility, not entitlement, because so many

0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.239
<v Speaker 2>of my problems came from again outsourcing all of my

0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:13.600
<v Speaker 2>problems solving to departments, agencies, politicians, and it's about getting

0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:17.120
<v Speaker 2>back to solving those problems yourself. That led us to

0:45:17.200 --> 0:45:19.640
<v Speaker 2>campaign for the Royal Commission, and I've then set up

0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:23.440
<v Speaker 2>the charity Veterans Support Force. It's the website is VSF

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:27.040
<v Speaker 2>dot org dot au where we are a charity organization

0:45:27.120 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and we support veterans and their families during the current

0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:33.919
<v Speaker 2>Royal Commission. We do projects, we do surveys, we've done

0:45:33.920 --> 0:45:38.160
<v Speaker 2>some campaigning up to government, we do community activities, We

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:40.680
<v Speaker 2>support veterans who want to engage with the Royal Commission

0:45:41.080 --> 0:45:43.720
<v Speaker 2>and off that that is where I find my projects

0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 2>with purpose back for the community of my people. So

0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:49.359
<v Speaker 2>I want to get involved. Head to VSF dot org.

0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:54.040
<v Speaker 2>Dot au and otherwise it's whatever else comes across my

0:45:54.120 --> 0:45:58.279
<v Speaker 2>table that I find purpose doing and jump on board.

0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Awesome. Do youv dot org dot? Are you? Is this

0:46:03.160 --> 0:46:05.520
<v Speaker 1>your and I mean I know this year is your

0:46:05.560 --> 0:46:08.480
<v Speaker 1>purpose and your passion, but is this also your career?

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Do you do corporate stuff? Do you do like how

0:46:11.560 --> 0:46:12.360
<v Speaker 1>do you make a buck?

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So that's been and to be honest, I've only

0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:16.600
<v Speaker 2>actually had to start looking at that. So I did

0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:21.799
<v Speaker 2>the lead up into politics, which was unsuccessful this year,

0:46:22.480 --> 0:46:24.279
<v Speaker 2>and up until that time, I've just been sort of

0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:27.800
<v Speaker 2>living off savings that I screwled away, very conscientious throughout

0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 2>my career. So I'm actually at that point where VSF

0:46:30.280 --> 0:46:32.759
<v Speaker 2>stuff is all voluntary. What I do do to earn

0:46:32.800 --> 0:46:35.160
<v Speaker 2>a buck is I go in and do corporate speaking.

0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:38.040
<v Speaker 2>I give it a speech on leadership, and my website

0:46:38.080 --> 0:46:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Heston Russell dot com is where most people go to

0:46:40.480 --> 0:46:44.880
<v Speaker 2>get info on that. But corporate speaking workshops, even helping

0:46:44.920 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 2>out recruiters select people, that's the stuff I love. Anything

0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:52.000
<v Speaker 2>to do with people and teams and particularly leadership is

0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:55.879
<v Speaker 2>my number one topic because no amount of technology or

0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:58.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, outsourcing innovation is going to help that. It

0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:01.840
<v Speaker 2>comes down to people and purpose motivations. That's how I

0:47:01.880 --> 0:47:02.359
<v Speaker 2>earn a buck.

0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>And what do you do for fun mate? Do you

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:07.200
<v Speaker 1>still train? Do you still lift heavy? Shit? Are you

0:47:07.239 --> 0:47:09.359
<v Speaker 1>still jacked? I can only see you from the kind

0:47:09.400 --> 0:47:11.640
<v Speaker 1>of the chest up, but you look like a fucking

0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:15.120
<v Speaker 1>hell mate. I shipped away.

0:47:15.200 --> 0:47:18.120
<v Speaker 2>Just I'm getting I'm getting back into it, you know,

0:47:18.200 --> 0:47:22.000
<v Speaker 2>particularly after the campaign, I actually let myself go. You know,

0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:25.000
<v Speaker 2>my mental and physical health sort of went by the wayside.

0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:27.520
<v Speaker 2>That sort of happened to those hyper periods. But I

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.160
<v Speaker 2>try and get to the gym every day. I really

0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:32.960
<v Speaker 2>enjoy going to the gym and working out. I enjoy

0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:36.000
<v Speaker 2>a bit of sort of group fitness, And to be honest,

0:47:36.560 --> 0:47:40.719
<v Speaker 2>I've spent the last two years so focused on the

0:47:40.760 --> 0:47:43.360
<v Speaker 2>purpose side of the house, campaigning for those things we

0:47:43.440 --> 0:47:47.160
<v Speaker 2>spoke about, and then the politics piece that the rest

0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:49.520
<v Speaker 2>of this year is actually focusing on me. I actually

0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:52.359
<v Speaker 2>got a contract to write a book on my own

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:56.080
<v Speaker 2>memoir last year and it's finally due to get published

0:47:56.080 --> 0:47:58.160
<v Speaker 2>by the end of this year. So that's been a

0:47:58.160 --> 0:48:02.120
<v Speaker 2>real passion project as well. But I'm in the rebuild

0:48:02.160 --> 0:48:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and refocused face. And that said, fitness is such a

0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:07.120
<v Speaker 2>huge part of that fitness and nutrition that I need

0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:09.960
<v Speaker 2>to get back to. Absolutely well.

0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Mate, when you come to Melbourne, we'll lift some heavy

0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:15.040
<v Speaker 1>shit as well as have a coffee. It's really good

0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to meet really good to meet you, great to chat

0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:20.320
<v Speaker 1>to you. What you're doing is awesome. Thanks for sharing

0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:24.200
<v Speaker 1>some of your story with us and maybe we'll get

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 1>you back again. I reckon, there's a lot more we

0:48:26.040 --> 0:48:27.120
<v Speaker 1>could unpack.

0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for letting me chack Craig, thanks to let me

0:48:29.520 --> 0:48:31.640
<v Speaker 2>have I call this my mental fitness session, so thanks

0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>for just let me have that chat with you. And

0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.120
<v Speaker 2>there we go. Mate, you've got a man here. You

0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:38.719
<v Speaker 2>go elusive. I like it.

0:48:41.360 --> 0:48:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Heston Russell Voice of a Veteran. Is that the name

0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:44.960
<v Speaker 1>of the podcast?

0:48:45.520 --> 0:48:48.160
<v Speaker 2>It's now just called the Heston Russell Podcast.

0:48:47.960 --> 0:48:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Heston Russell and Russell Podcast and VSF dot org, dot

0:48:53.600 --> 0:48:58.840
<v Speaker 1>au TIF. Very good scouting by you, good job.

0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Tip, pretty happy, Thanks Hestin, Thanks Harps.

0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:05.319
<v Speaker 1>I feel like you might be on roll with the

0:49:05.360 --> 0:49:08.439
<v Speaker 1>punches soon and you might be back at TYPO. Will

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:13.600
<v Speaker 1>talk in a minute, but for the minutes. Thanks everyone, Heston,

0:49:13.960 --> 0:49:15.400
<v Speaker 1>thanks so much. We appreciate you.

0:49:15.680 --> 0:49:16.760
<v Speaker 2>Thanks great. Thanks Jeff