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Speaker 1: Good a team. I hope you're bloody terrific. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: another installment of the Youth Project. Tiffany and Cook over

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Speaker 1: there at typ Central and Craig Anthony Harper here at

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Speaker 1: the other branch in Hampton, doing the very best that

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Speaker 1: I can. Just a shitkicker, trying to make ends meat.

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Speaker 1: I do what I can, tip, don't.

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Speaker 2: I It's been a while, So I h it's been

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Speaker 2: a while, hasn't it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you and I haven't got together since the

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Speaker 1: podcast we did all two hours ago. Have you been good?

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Speaker 2: I've been good. I squeezed in a little twenty minute

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Speaker 2: stroll in what we just learned was eighteen degree sunshine.

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Speaker 1: Stroll as in stroll or sprint.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just a stroll, just a stroll. Really, I'm thinking

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Speaker 2: I'll go for rid.

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Speaker 1: I've had minimum vitamin D today, so I do need

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Speaker 1: to get out after this and just walk a couple

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Speaker 1: of laps of Hampton so that I might get some

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Speaker 1: vitamin D into me. But I tell you bloke who's

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Speaker 1: probably lacking none because he's in the fucking Sunshine State

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Speaker 1: and was beating his chest and bragging before we got

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Speaker 1: to know each other, So this could be a fucking nightmare.

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Speaker 1: The next forty five minutes. There we go, Heston, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show, my friend.

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Speaker 2: A Craig Tiff, Thank you so much. From twenty four

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Speaker 2: degrees up here in Brisy.

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Speaker 1: Yeh whatever, right, Well, I thought it was about twelve

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Speaker 1: or thirteen, and I just looked at the little weather

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Speaker 1: thing on my phone and it's eighteen in Melbourne, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty much tropical for this time of year. So

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Speaker 1: stop complaining, harps, that's the story. How's bris Vegas these days?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's good.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I grew up here and I just moved back here

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Speaker 2: April last year, and I met a place called Newstead

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Speaker 2: here at the gas works and they really done well

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Speaker 2: you activating the Brisy River and so much development going on.

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Speaker 2: It's got a good modern feel to it.

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Speaker 1: Where did you move back from Sydney?

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Speaker 2: So I spent most of my time living down in

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Speaker 2: Sydney per my military career and what I sort of

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Speaker 2: did for a couple of years after I got out

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Speaker 2: from that.

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Speaker 1: Now rather than me banging on with something that I

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Speaker 1: ripped off the Internet, which I do have steering at

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Speaker 1: me from the computer screen next to your face. Now,

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Speaker 1: what don't you do with the honor and give us whatever,

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Speaker 1: as much or as little as you want on the

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Speaker 1: Heston Russell kind of bio, and then we can expand

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Speaker 1: and go wherever we want because we have no rules here.

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Speaker 1: We can even say fuck. So enjoy that for sure.

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Speaker 2: Who is he? All right? Heston Russell? So my mum

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Speaker 2: had a crush on Charlton Heston. That's where my name

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Speaker 2: came from, not from Hector Heston. Bloomenthal was fifteen years

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Speaker 2: old when I was born. So just to clear that

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Speaker 2: up quickly, we're talking Charlton Heston, Moses, ben Her, all

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Speaker 2: that good stuff, pre mra sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: How are you now?

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Speaker 2: I am thirty six?

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Speaker 1: Oh you're My fucking shoes are thirty six. So but

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Speaker 1: tell people who Charlton Heston was, because there's quite a

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Speaker 1: like tiff. Do you know who he was?

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Speaker 2: Naw, he was, you know, he was again bad connotations,

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Speaker 2: but he was a Tom Cruise of his apes.

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Speaker 1: He was.

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Speaker 2: He was ben Her. He was Moses in Moses. He

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Speaker 2: was the original lead actor and planet of the Apes.

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Speaker 2: He was the male leading role star back in the days.

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Speaker 1: He was the goat really of leading men and rock star,

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Speaker 1: good looking Hollywood superstars. He was maybe, if not the first,

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Speaker 1: definitely one of the first, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean back in the days you know where

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Speaker 2: Ben hur was the real life chariot racing scene where

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Speaker 2: people died. He was the big blockbuster stuff back before

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Speaker 2: there was CGI and everything else in.

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Speaker 1: Between, exactly before there were special and effects. You know,

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Speaker 1: people used to actually get killed in the filming of movies.

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Speaker 2: Tiff no, no looks just google chart and heston and

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Speaker 2: he's no Patrick Swayze, Oh, come on, bro, go back

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Speaker 2: to his young staff. He was definitely your mother and

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Speaker 2: grandmother would have had a.

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Speaker 1: Saw what they would have gone off like a frog

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Speaker 1: and a sock, your mom and your grandmom. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there was speaking of people dying in movies. Here's some

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Speaker 1: trivia no one needs. There's a James Bond movie called

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Speaker 1: Live and Let Die. And there's a scene in that

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Speaker 1: movie where a boat does a jump and it's the

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Speaker 1: longest so literally like off a ramp and can you

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Speaker 1: just double check this, Tiff, Live and Let Die boat

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Speaker 1: jump actor or driver dies. So the guy that did

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Speaker 1: that stunt in the movie and they kept it in

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Speaker 1: the movie actually died. Wow, And they kept that. See

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Speaker 1: this's got nothing to do with special forces or Glorrior.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no for sure. Look, and I grew up here

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Speaker 2: in Brazil, went to school here, got out, went down

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Speaker 2: to Canberra for four years. When I joined the Army,

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Speaker 2: I went to the Defense Force Academy for three years,

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Speaker 2: the Royal Military College for one, got my commission, became

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Speaker 2: a Lieutenant lieutenant and went up to Townsville in an

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Speaker 2: infantry battalion for three years, where I deployed to East

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Speaker 2: Tymoor for Peace tam and that twenty ten I completed

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Speaker 2: selection into the Commandos to become a beret qualified commando

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Speaker 2: and I spent the majority of my years there where

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Speaker 2: I deployed to Afghanistan four times, Iraq, did a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of domestic caniterrorism stuff and stuff in the Asia

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Speaker 2: Pacific region. And then I ended up coming back from

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Speaker 2: deployment to Iraq, moving over to the US to live

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Speaker 2: with my at the time secret boyfriend, and ended up

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Speaker 2: moving back to Australia when I brought a brand called

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Speaker 2: Barry's boot Camp over here to Australia and Singapore. And

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Speaker 2: fast forward lockdowns, breakdowns of relationships, my own sort of

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Speaker 2: mental health decline, failing in my transition from the military

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Speaker 2: mental health decline and suicidal ideation the end of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty and ever since then, I've really sort of taken

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Speaker 2: the torch to the veteran welfare and support system, namely

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Speaker 2: the Department of Veterans Affairs and a bunch of legislation

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Speaker 2: which saw me campaign for the Royal Commission into Defense

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Speaker 2: and Veterans Suicide, which we won April last year, and

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Speaker 2: then also step up post the accusations of war crimes

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Speaker 2: against special forces, just to make sure that you know

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Speaker 2: we're actually focusing on the full story, that those who

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Speaker 2: do have things to enter for are actually gone taken

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Speaker 2: to court, not trial by media, while the other three

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Speaker 2: thousand plus people who being collectively punished weren't done something.

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Speaker 2: We campaigned and succeeded for a few things there. So

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Speaker 2: I now run a charity and up here Brisie with

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Speaker 2: my little three year old sausage dog Copper.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, we'll get onto TiO. What did you find?

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Speaker 2: Well, I forgot. I forgot half way through what I

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Speaker 2: was googling.

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Speaker 1: Don't worry about it at the Moment's past.

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Speaker 2: Live and let die of boat stunt rather dies. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I haven't found any you know, just living.

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Speaker 1: Live and let die James Bond tragedy or something. You know,

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Speaker 1: this really doesn't matter for the podcast, does it. This

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Speaker 1: is what we do, has don We just bloody. It's

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Speaker 1: a little bit Joe Rogan esque. We're just freestyle and

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Speaker 1: we have a chat about anything. But all right, tell

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Speaker 1: me about your secret boyfriend. Hang on, tell me, I

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Speaker 1: just want to So that wasn't tell us about that?

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Speaker 1: How was that? So you obviously couldn't be out and

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Speaker 1: open about that.

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Speaker 2: So this is the whole thing. I mean, I've just

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Speaker 2: spent the last two weeks going into a hand to

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Speaker 2: hand conflict over this lighting up the try to remembrance

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Speaker 2: rainbow colors type of stuff. I kept myself in close

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Speaker 2: at my whole military career. The best part about my

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Speaker 2: career was that it focused on what we call the

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Speaker 2: daily renewable contract. The focused on how you showed up

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Speaker 2: and your confidence and character as opposed to any other

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Speaker 2: label that even now you know, you just google me

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Speaker 2: and have a look at all the different labels, different

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Speaker 2: outlets in the media try and put on me and

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Speaker 2: people you know, to define them by traits that we

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Speaker 2: were born with, you know, differences that shouldn't define us,

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Speaker 2: but I used to define us because we'd like to

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Speaker 2: understand things. So I kept myself in the closet because

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Speaker 2: it was at a time I only first came comfortable

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Speaker 2: with my sexuality twenty fifteen, when I was thirty years old.

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Speaker 2: I was actually living in the US for a year

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Speaker 2: on exchange for their Special Forces, and it was the

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Speaker 2: first time I got to see professional gay men who

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Speaker 2: didn't wear their sexuality on their sleeve. I was in

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Speaker 2: LA hanging out with Disney producers, you know, big tech

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Speaker 2: people who I didn't know they were again until someone

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Speaker 2: else told me, and I got to see the difference

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Speaker 2: between that and otherwise Oxford Street and Sydney, which is

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Speaker 2: all I knew. All I knew was drag queens and middrifts,

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Speaker 2: and I do celebrate that side, and I now understand

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Speaker 2: that piece of that culture that needs to put their

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Speaker 2: identity on display when you've rejected or had people reject

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Speaker 2: your identity. But yeah, I kept that to myself. I

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Speaker 2: kept my personal life out of my work life. That's

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Speaker 2: what made me perform better. And I never wanted anyone

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Speaker 2: to judge me on anything other than how I performed

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Speaker 2: and showed up each and every day.

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Speaker 1: But you know, an amazing mate, so good, so good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's like, what was that? I mean that

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Speaker 1: moment that when was that twenty fifteen where you decided

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Speaker 1: to open that metaphorphoric door and walk through and go

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Speaker 1: that Ah, hey, guess what give us a snapshot of that?

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Speaker 2: Well? This is it. It was me becoming comfortable with

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Speaker 2: who I was. I was in the US and my

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Speaker 2: sister was actually living up in Banff, Canada, and I

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Speaker 2: flew to her and she's the first person I told

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Speaker 2: and love her. She's four years younger than me, and

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Speaker 2: she said, you know, as long as you're not doing

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Speaker 2: anything illegal and not hurting anyone, why does it matter

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Speaker 2: what you do? And she said, as long as you're okay?

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Speaker 2: And you know, she's just absolutely authentically amazing that I

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Speaker 2: told mum and she cried because she wanted to have

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Speaker 2: grandkids and I told her, apparently you can still do that,

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Speaker 2: and then she's all happy again. But what I never did,

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Speaker 2: I never came out. I never had a coming out.

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Speaker 2: I told those who I wanted to because I felt

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Speaker 2: like they needed to know, because otherwise I didn't want

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Speaker 2: them finding out for our other people, but I kept

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Speaker 2: it completely removed because again I didn't want it to

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Speaker 2: be a consideration because when I got back to the

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Speaker 2: US Craig, this is when the whole gay marriage vote

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Speaker 2: and pleposite was going on, and society was looking for

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Speaker 2: examples to use to be symbolic. You know, even within Defense,

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Speaker 2: we were looking to celebrate and raise up people who

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Speaker 2: were different in this diversity, and that was the last

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Speaker 2: thing I wanted into the Defense force. You are praised

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Speaker 2: publicly based on your performance, and to identify anyone on

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Speaker 2: anything other than the way they perform in their role

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Speaker 2: completely go against our culture. The defense culture is service,

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Speaker 2: service before self, the team before self. You know, there

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Speaker 2: is no individuality in that. There's individual excellence for the

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Speaker 2: benefit of the team. And again hence why a bunch

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Speaker 2: of the sort of culture wars I've been fighting the

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Speaker 2: last couple of weeks because I also appreciate in this

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Speaker 2: space that unfortunately so much of this comes from trauma.

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Speaker 2: You know, I know what it was like literally rejecting

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Speaker 2: my own sexuality and not being comfortable with myself, and

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Speaker 2: how others have had that experience by others, and when

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Speaker 2: people come from that place of trauma. It all depends

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Speaker 2: who's around them once they reach that level of self actualization,

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Speaker 2: whether it turns into entitlement and a stick they use

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Speaker 2: to beat others and get back their pound of flesh

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Speaker 2: at or it turns into which I was fortunate enough

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Speaker 2: to now see it as a lens of responsibility over

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Speaker 2: a responsibility to show people that I'm the same person

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Speaker 2: to encourage those who feel like they can't be themselves,

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Speaker 2: but at all times to focus on that external purpose

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Speaker 2: and that team before looking to progress myself based on

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Speaker 2: something that I choose to be honest.

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Speaker 1: The hell good for you? And so, what's the did

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Speaker 1: you say that currently there's been a little bit of

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Speaker 1: who are around the lighting up that was at the

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Speaker 1: shrine in the city remembrance. Have you had to deal

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Speaker 1: with a bit of bullshit in the last couple of weeks?

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Speaker 1: If so, what was that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's this big the Shrine of Remembrance down

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Speaker 2: there in Melbourne that was going to publicly display the

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Speaker 2: LGBT rainbow lights on the external of the structure. It's

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Speaker 2: doing an internal display, an internal year long display on

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Speaker 2: LGBT i q A plus people within their service. But

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Speaker 2: they want to do this big external signaling essentially, and

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Speaker 2: they didn't consult with any of the veteran community. The

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Speaker 2: CEO of the shrine isn't a veteran in itself, and

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Speaker 2: they didn't consult with Victorian RSL. They didn't consult with

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Speaker 2: many openly gay veterans like myself are out there in

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Speaker 2: the media doing that thing, and a few of us

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Speaker 2: just spoke up and said, hey, this isn't what we do.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is virtue signaling. This is jumping on

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Speaker 2: to a lot of these issues that are going on

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Speaker 2: in society. And people immediately put up the wall saying

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Speaker 2: you know you saying not to do that is homophobic.

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Speaker 2: It's like, well, hold on, I'm a home so settled down.

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Speaker 2: What it isn't is it's not people understanding our culture.

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Speaker 2: It's projecting society's culture onto the shrine of remembrance. Is

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Speaker 2: there to commemorate service and sacrifice and bullets and bombs

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Speaker 2: do not discriminate people do and to individually identify people

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Speaker 2: who served based on a demographic or a piece of

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Speaker 2: them that has nothing to do with that responsibility, but

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Speaker 2: comes down to entitlement and seeking personal example. I see

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Speaker 2: personal promotion goes completely against our culture. And this is

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Speaker 2: at a time where I will take up the fight

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Speaker 2: on culture left front and center, because if we don't

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Speaker 2: fight for those values that we believe in, like, what

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Speaker 2: what are we fighting for?

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Speaker 1: How ironic? Well, firstly, that was incredibly well articulated, that

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Speaker 1: was bloody amazing. But how ironic that you kind of

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Speaker 1: get labeled homophobic? Any did you go? Hang on what?

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I've even had my own run ins with the

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Speaker 2: heads of Marty Gorara and people like this who I've

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Speaker 2: been told that I'm not gay enough to be seen

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Speaker 2: as an adequate representation of the community. You know, I

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Speaker 2: don't conform to the stereotype. You know, I come across

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Speaker 2: as quote sis male heterosexual who's actually homosexual. And this

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Speaker 2: is where I said at people and going, look, I'm

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Speaker 2: Hester Russell, and I am who I am each and

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Speaker 2: every single day. You know, I'm sorry that I don't

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Speaker 2: conform to what you think. But I have that many

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Speaker 2: closeted homosexual gay men reach out to me from militaries

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Speaker 2: across the world saying how just seeing me being a

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Speaker 2: normal person and wearing my labels with responsibility not in toilerment,

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Speaker 2: has made them feel so much more comfortable in them

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Speaker 2: in themselves and not needing that public affirmation to make

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Speaker 2: them feel accepted, which, as we know in this day

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Speaker 2: and age, is what we actually need more young people

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Speaker 2: to do, to not rely on external affirmation, but to

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Speaker 2: be confident with who they are internally at an intrinsic level.

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Speaker 1: How dare you not meet their expectations? How dare you

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Speaker 1: not be how people think you? Stop being yourself? You

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Speaker 1: fucking rebel?

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Speaker 2: Well, what I love is, Craig, I haven't even had

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Speaker 2: a personal conversation with these people. It's all based off

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Speaker 2: social media snippets, you know. That's the way we live

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Speaker 2: it at the moment. It comes down to what people

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Speaker 2: perceive your brand to be without taking the time to

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Speaker 2: have a physical conversation.

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Speaker 1: By the way, everyone over one hundred combat missions serving

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Speaker 1: with the Special Forces. I mean.

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Speaker 2: I used to be cool. I tell people I used

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Speaker 2: to be cool.

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Speaker 1: I think you still wear the cool badge pretty well. Right,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about something else. But so so much respect

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Speaker 1: for you being so transparent and great with all of that,

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Speaker 1: because we all need to like, it's just nice to

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Speaker 1: know how you think and not that the way you

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Speaker 1: think is the only way people should think but for

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Speaker 1: you to know who you are and how you are,

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Speaker 1: and to have clarity about yourself and your identity and

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Speaker 1: to be comfortable in that. I wish we were all

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Speaker 1: that comfortable with whoever we are and how we are.

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Speaker 2: Let's come quickly, job in there, that's come. Like I

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Speaker 2: said September August twenty twenty, mate, I sat on my

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Speaker 2: lounge after a whole period of you know, de escalating

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Speaker 2: and living in authentic life to a point where I

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Speaker 2: was literally planned on how I wanted to take my

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Speaker 2: own life in the service of so many other veterans

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Speaker 2: who are experiencing this mental health and suicide crisis. And

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Speaker 2: when you get to that point where you know, I've

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Speaker 2: been in one hundred combat missions, I've had plenty of

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Speaker 2: bad guys shoot at me and hit parts of my

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Speaker 2: equipment and all this. But the closest I came to,

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Speaker 2: you know, being removed from this earth was by my

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Speaker 2: own hand. And when you reach that point of extreme

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Speaker 2: sort of self rejection and get to that mental state

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Speaker 2: of a place you really start to you really have

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Speaker 2: the chance to sit there and do that self assessment

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Speaker 2: and go, you know who I am, what do I

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Speaker 2: stand for what is the authentic version of me, because

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Speaker 2: everything else is causing all of these issues to snowball

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Speaker 2: and progress further. And once you figure that out, and

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Speaker 2: again do so through a lens of responsibility, not a hey,

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Speaker 2: this is me, fuck you all, but like, this is

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Speaker 2: me and this is my responsibility. All the rest of

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Speaker 2: it is a bit of white noise, mate, as long

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Speaker 2: as you're working for the right reasons, which is helping others.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, what's it like being in the middle

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Speaker 1: of combat when people are trying to kill you and

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Speaker 1: people are shooting at you? I mean, apart from shit

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Speaker 1: and terrifying, can you.

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Speaker 2: Expand the best time in my life?

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Speaker 1: You know? We had a guy on TIF what was

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Speaker 1: his name recently, I shouldn't know his name. He said,

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Speaker 1: you never feel and he'd like you combat whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of times and a similar space, but different story. He said,

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Speaker 1: you never feel more alive than when someone's trying to

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Speaker 1: kill you. That's what he said.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I give this talk on leadership. People want to

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Speaker 2: talk about combat leadership. Combat leadership is the easiest form

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Speaker 2: of leadership because there's immediate feedback. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: don't do something you're going to get shot. You make

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Speaker 2: the wrong move, it's going to hurt you or your team.

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Speaker 1: And when you say easy, come on, bro, So I mean.

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Speaker 2: That's Look, that's what I've been trained to do. You know,

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Speaker 2: my whole career was trained to do that. Imagine training

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Speaker 2: for you know, representational rugby and never getting to run

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Speaker 2: on and play. I got to do that, and I

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Speaker 2: got to do that with a team that I worked with.

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Speaker 2: You know, eighteen months beforehand. We're at this intuitive level

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Speaker 2: of mental and emotional and physical connection to the way

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Speaker 2: in which we conducted our operations. You know, career leadership

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Speaker 2: is the hardest when there's so much more time for

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Speaker 2: people to question decisions. You know, combat leadership, your stuff up.

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Speaker 2: Someone gets killed in your career leadership, your stuff up.

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Speaker 2: It grows and slowly eats away like a toxic cancer,

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Speaker 2: you know. And it's not that purpose and that motivation

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Speaker 2: isn't immediately there in front of you to manufacture and

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Speaker 2: generate and inspire people so much more. I often say this,

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Speaker 2: particularly the last couple of years of politics and everything else.

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Speaker 2: I miss being overseas mate, because everything is so practical

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Speaker 2: and pragmatic and relevant. If I tell people, Hey, I

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Speaker 2: need extra helicopter otherwise we can't get our dudes out

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Speaker 2: if someone gets injured. You get it. You know, you're

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Speaker 2: able to justify these things. You're not sitting there playing politics,

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Speaker 2: you know, trading one thing for another. It's like, this

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Speaker 2: is why we need this, because this is the mission

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Speaker 2: we need to achieve. And you literally are going out

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Speaker 2: there with people who are risking their lives to achieve this.

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Speaker 2: They believe in it that much. And you could just

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Speaker 2: imagine that collective mindset and motivation that comes with that,

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Speaker 2: as well as being able to do you know what

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Speaker 2: is a very masculine thing to do, you know, go

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Speaker 2: out there and serve and protect and do all those

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Speaker 2: sorts of things that you know require us to provide

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Speaker 2: physical courage. And very rarely in modern society do we

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Speaker 2: ever get to show physical courage. It's that moral courage

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Speaker 2: that we need. And once you are able to test

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Speaker 2: yourself and test yourself with those you love to be

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Speaker 2: around and are trained with that level of again the

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Speaker 2: different levels of self actualization, I realized being able to

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Speaker 2: go into that on that one mission, on that one

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Speaker 2: deployment in twenty twelve, you know, we flew sixty seven mission.

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Speaker 2: We killed one hundred and seventeen bad guys. I killed

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Speaker 2: my share of those. And none of that is to celebrate.

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Speaker 2: It's finally being tested at doing the job you've been

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Speaker 2: trained to do for the right reasons. And once you

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Speaker 2: do that, it really provides a perspective that is now

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Speaker 2: my responsibility to bring forward into everything else we do

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Speaker 2: as well. If Nathan Bolton episode eight hundred and seventy two, everyone, jeez,

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Speaker 2: you guys are busy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, eight seventy two. What are we up to now?

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Speaker 1: Eight nine ish?

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Speaker 2: Yes, ish, yeah.

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Speaker 1: We do one every day, mate, We're a bit crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's great. Gives the mind engaged. There.

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Speaker 1: We're three hundred and sixty five days of even Christmas,

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Speaker 1: New Year's Day, and New Year's Eve. We put out

405
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Speaker 1: episodes because we can. It's how we roll awesome. It's

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Speaker 1: always interested me. I'm not really asking a question, I'm

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Speaker 1: just thinking out loud about something and maybe you can

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Speaker 1: roll off the back wet. I've always been fascinated, like

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Speaker 1: we grow in our culture where you know, thankfully now

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Speaker 1: there's a focus on you know, bullying and looking after

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Speaker 1: people and keeping everyone safe and out of harm's way.

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Speaker 1: And don't hurt people, and be kind and be thoughtful,

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Speaker 1: and these are all great ideas and constructs and kind

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Speaker 1: of guidance principles. But then you and your mates you

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Speaker 1: get trained to kill people, understandably, because like it or not,

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Speaker 1: that's fucking more. And so all of that kind of

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Speaker 1: cultural and I guess in a way like moral and

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Speaker 1: ethical and perhaps spiritual kind of principles that most of

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Speaker 1: us grow up don't hurt anyone, and definitely then you

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Speaker 1: have to kind of park that and then learn how

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Speaker 1: to kill people?

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Speaker 2: Is there?

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Speaker 1: How does that work? Is their internal conflict? Is there?

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Speaker 1: Like fucking don't blah lah lah, don't think about it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what how do you manage that? That's

426
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Speaker 1: a really good question. No one has ever actually asked

427
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Speaker 1: me anything that sort of touches on that question. And

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Speaker 1: I think it all comes down to purpose. So I've

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Speaker 1: just saying, you want to hire performance, you need a

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Speaker 1: higher purpose. If you know why you're doing what you're

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Speaker 1: doing for the right reasons, then all of that sort

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Speaker 1: of fades into the white noise. And particularly in.

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Speaker 2: Afghanistan, I knew why we were deploying, I knew the

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Speaker 2: mission we were doing, you know, we go out into

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Speaker 2: a target and we'd take fingerprints off things, or we'd

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Speaker 2: get someone's phone, and you know, we'd track down and

437
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 2: capture or kill someone who'd manufactured and detonated an ID

438
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 2: in a crowded marketplace and killed women and children, you

439
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: know the previous month, or you know, had built an

440
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,679
Speaker 2: ID that had killed one of our guys or an

441
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 2: American guys. You know, we didn't just go out there

442
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,239
Speaker 2: indiscriminately getting people. It would take us a month, you know,

443
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 2: or just at least a few weeks to develop and

444
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 2: get all the intelligence together to justify these people as

445
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: properly bad people that we needed to capture or kill.

446
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: Fast forward through to my last appoyment to Iraq. We

447
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: were fighting isis dash Literally, the best way I can

448
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 2: put it, is the true manifestation of evil on this earth.

449
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,120
Speaker 2: I won't tell you some of the things they did

450
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 2: to innocent women and children, but I've actually never felt

451
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 2: more there. I say it righteous in actually going out there,

452
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,679
Speaker 2: and the most enjoyment I've ever taken from my career

453
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 2: is taking the fight to those people who are trying

454
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 2: to persecute fully and kill those who can't defend themselves

455
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 2: and being able to protect those who can't defend themselves

456
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 2: is where so much of that moral authority essentially comes

457
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: from to enable us to do that, and again putting

458
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: that purpose and your immediate team before yourself. None of

459
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: those situations sort of ever registered into a personal mental

460
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: health or an emotional health aspect for me, and I've

461
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: still to this day have absolutely zero issues with any

462
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 2: of the combat and carnage I've seen. To be honest,

463
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: I miss that all immersive and inspirational purpose and team.

464
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,600
Speaker 2: If anything, you.

465
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: Know, it's weird. I mean that love and caring, compassionate

466
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: brother heston. What's weird is that people like you perform

467
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: great under pressure, but the average person or many average people,

468
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: don't perform really well under pressure. But then sometimes people,

469
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: not necessarily you, but sometimes people like you come back

470
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: to mundanity suburbia where there's no war, there's no one

471
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: trying to kill you, there's no immediate threat, and you

472
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 1: take away the pressure and they're not as good as

473
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: when they're under pressure. Is that right?

474
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,160
Speaker 2: That's where I struggle, mate, That's where I literally struggled

475
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: in my mental health. I struggled for relevance. I went

476
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: from planning and coordinating gigantic missions, you know, doing no

477
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 2: fail stuff through to waking up and the biggest responsibility

478
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 2: I had was taking my dog for a walk that day.

479
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: That's where I struggled And what I realized is I

480
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 2: struggle without having a team. I struggle without having that purpose.

481
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: I struggle without having responsibility. And people don't rise to

482
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 2: the occasion. They fall to their level of training. I've

483
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: been taught that time and time again, and before I

484
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: deployed on my first trip to Afghanistan, I've been through

485
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 2: seven years of training in the Army, eighteen months worth

486
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: of intensive training to do our job. There's so much

487
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: that goes into that. It's not like you're just thrown

488
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: into battle in my role to go out there and

489
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: do it. So everything else is that de escalation and

490
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 2: that decompression from that, and that is, to be honest,

491
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: where defense actually is really failing a lot of soldiers

492
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: in that sort of transition from defense process is one.

493
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 1: Of the challenges. Before I asked this question, So you

494
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 1: retired as you were a Special Forces major? Is that correct?

495
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: Yes?

496
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: How old were you when you became a major?

497
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: I was thirty one?

498
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: Is that young? That seems really young.

499
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I sort of. Well, going to school here in Queensland,

500
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: I graduated, I turned seventeen in November and when then

501
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 2: went straight down and I passed selection as a twenty

502
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 2: four year old. Always been the sort of youngest in

503
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 2: everything that I've done. I was the youngest in my platoon.

504
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: But that's that's pretty much the absolute youngest you could

505
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 2: physically be.

506
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: Wow, amazing. We talk a bit on the show about identity.

507
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: While we talk more than a bit, but you know,

508
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 1: that sense of who am I and what defines me?

509
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: And where do I get my sense of self from?

510
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

511
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 1: You know, And when I was a fat, insecure kid,

512
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: I had all this weight and then I last weight.

513
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: Then I used to for a long time we've spoken

514
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: about this, I used to get my identity from what

515
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,919
Speaker 1: I look like, my body and my biceps and all

516
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: that shit, and you know, then it was kind of

517
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: from my business. And when you're a soldier and you

518
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: do what you do, it's kind of what you do

519
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: is pretty much who you are to a level. Am

520
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: I correct?

521
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely mate? And that is where I've struggled my entire life.

522
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 1: And so then you're this Special Forces fucking literally trained

523
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 1: killer who's done, you know, gone over there to serve,

524
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: by the way, thank you for your service, gone over

525
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 1: there and done all this incredible shit on our behalf.

526
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,600
Speaker 1: Literally put your life on the line over one hundred times.

527
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: And then you come back and it's Wednesday, and you're

528
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: on the couch and you're not a soldier, and you're like, fuck,

529
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: is it Netflix or is it a pizza? Or is

530
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: it both?

531
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: Is there a bit of that that goes well, this

532
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 2: is my struggles And you've hit the nail on the head.

533
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: The military is fantastic at grabbing people off the street

534
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: and issuing them with a collective identity that makes you

535
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: subordinate to your team and subordinate to the purpose. What

536
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 2: they don't do is successfully reconstitute that individual identity when

537
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: you leave, and you leave a giant organization that is

538
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 2: a not for profit, it is a full purpose organization,

539
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: and throws you into a world which is arguably for

540
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 2: profit in employment at least, and you are unable to

541
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: find that same level of personal satisfaction. And for me, mate,

542
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 2: I left the military and threw myself headlong into my

543
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: identity being a gay man, you know, finally accepting myself

544
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: and in joining so much that I had deprived myself.

545
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: I fell in love. I'd never been in love throughout

546
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 2: my personal career, and then society wants that to be

547
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: your label. And I've made my relationship become literally my identity.

548
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: And then when I lost that relationship for four years,

549
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,719
Speaker 2: I got sent back to that identity crisis. And what

550
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 2: I've learned time and time again is it then comes

551
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: down to the community you've built around you. Everything has

552
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: to come back to those you surround yourselves that help

553
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 2: you to either find your identity again or find your purpose.

554
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 2: But everything does come back to who you are outside

555
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: of any other label. And that's where you heard me

556
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: say before I finally reached the point where I understand

557
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: that I am Heston Russell, and I get back to

558
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,959
Speaker 2: that daily renewable contract. The day you rest on your

559
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: laurels is the day you become irrelevant. But it's so

560
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 2: hard in this society. Mate. You know, before every interview,

561
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: before every whatever, people like, hey, how do you want

562
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 2: us to refer to you? Hey? Tell us about you.

563
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: It's like, what parts you know? I could stuff up tomorrow?

564
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 2: In my entire life of successes, I mean absolutely nothing

565
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 2: in this society. That's just show short term focused at

566
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 2: the moment, and that's an opportunity, but it's actually massive

567
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 2: threat and you feel like it's his inauthenticity piece. Mate,

568
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: when I when I transition to the to the gay

569
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: version of me, everything is measured by you know, biceps,

570
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 2: speedos at pool parties, what your last Instagram post is.

571
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: You're comparing yourself to the last version of yourself. And

572
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: that's with these layers of in all authenticity creep in

573
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 2: social media is one of the worst things for it.

574
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 2: And just cutting through all that and you know, creating

575
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: your own content based off what you're doing as opposed

576
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 2: to just creating content for the sake of content. That's

577
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: what sort of really helped me get back on this

578
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: right narrow.

579
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: Everyone that I talked to that's been in the military,

580
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: there's there's this I suppose it was the same for you,

581
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: but they seem to have this this level of connection

582
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: and trust and loyalty with their you know, with their colleagues,

583
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: the tribe, with their tribe. Thank you like this. There's

584
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: this loyalty and trust and connection and I guess understanding

585
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: that you can't get outside of the military. Is that

586
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: a struggle.

587
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: Well, it's when you've been through adversity with people. You know,

588
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 2: true bonds are formed when you're under pressure, be that

589
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 2: physical pressure, be that you know, out in the cold,

590
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: shivering and feeling that freeze to death. You know, you

591
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: form bods when someone you're snuggling up to in the

592
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 2: same sleeping bag just don't have those same pressure. So

593
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: same particularly physical and mental pressures on the outside that

594
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: I've experienced during my time in service. A lot of

595
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: people have gone through some of those personal, mental and

596
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:49,120
Speaker 2: emotional pressures doing COVID lockdown, feeling alone, isolated, everything else

597
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 2: in between, but particularly that physicality and the endorphins and

598
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: all the chemicals that go with going through that physical

599
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: adversity together and you know, training and progressing and being

600
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: like minded with it. You just don't find that on

601
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: the outside because people's interactions are either within work, which

602
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: is designed for a purpose, or outside socially, where you

603
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: know you pulled in so many different directions. It's such

604
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 2: a finite and focused and high precious sort of situation,

605
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: and those bonds are for much faster and stronger.

606
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: How did your tribe respond when you came out?

607
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: Well again, so I never had a whole coming out thing,

608
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: and I just gradually let people you know, I was

609
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: just more liberal on my social media. Essentially, I made

610
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: the rule that anyone who ever asked me, I'd tell

611
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: them absolutely upfront. And you know, I actually attended a

612
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: wedding with some of my old platoon guys that we

613
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: sort of post all this and the amount of guys

614
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: who came up to me and just be like, dude,

615
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: why the fuck didn't you tell us? Yeah, And it

616
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: was from a place of we could only imagine what

617
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: that was like for you, holding yourself back, like we

618
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: are so sorry that you didn't feel supported enough to

619
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 2: come out and be like that. That's so I said, hey, no, no, stop,

620
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 2: I'm the one who wasn't comfortable with me. They have

621
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: been the most amazing people, particularly in the Special Force

622
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: aside of the house. You know, you're performing at the

623
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: elite level. And this is what I've realized. I was

624
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: bringing ninety five, ninety six percent of myself to everything

625
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: that I was doing, but there was still, you know,

626
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: that four or five percent of me that was holding

627
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: myself back. And my regret is that I hadn't allowed

628
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: myself to be fully one hundred percent emotionally and mentally

629
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: aligned to what I was doing. But that's my own

630
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 2: development phase.

631
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: Do you think that if you had come out to them,

632
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: I don't know earlier I'm not. I don't know if

633
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: this is I'm not suggesting you should or shouldn't do anything,

634
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: but could that have proven a distraction and maybe that's

635
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: why you didn't do it?

636
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: Or yeah, again, it was all timing. So I came

637
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: back from the US at the end of twenty fifteen

638
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: fully prepared to live an openly gay life. But again,

639
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 2: who you sleep with and what your sexual preference is

640
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: completely irrelevant to day to day. Within the military was

641
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: such a high operationally focused unit that you're not sitting

642
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: there going, oh, by the way, guys, I'm gay and

643
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: like accept it. Like that again goes against our entire culture.

644
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: But the issue was that society was reaching in looking

645
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: for diversity for diversity's sake and also to progress those

646
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: who were over those who weren't. At that same time

647
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 2: I was dealing with, I was running the commando selection course.

648
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 2: We had just opened it up for women to finally

649
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: be allowed to apply for the selection course, and I

650
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 2: was told by our general that I was to reserve

651
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: ten positions for female candidates, which for a selection course

652
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: goes completely against everything. There is a standard. That standard

653
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 2: comes from the operational requirement backcasting. And I did a

654
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: public consultation with the other support staff females in our unit,

655
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 2: and they burned it down in flames. They said, don't

656
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 2: you dare undermine our success by giving us a quota.

657
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: We want to earn that off our own bat and

658
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 2: particularly in that society. And that was that same sort

659
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: of context for me. There was also that time and

660
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: space relevance where it just wasn't the right time to

661
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: do that publicly. But the biggest thing was, Mate, I

662
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 2: had to become comfortable with it first. It's only once

663
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: we can become comfortable with ourselves can when you actually

664
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: withstand if people can't tolerate or it's just something new

665
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: for them to catch up on.

666
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: And when you think about it, it is, I mean,

667
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: for ninety nine percent of you know what I do

668
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: in my job, what you do in your job, what

669
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: Tiff does, maybe even nearly it's not relevant. Like I've

670
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: never walked into a meeting or an environment or a

671
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: workshop or a conference and made a point to let

672
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 1: anyone know that, by the way, I'm heterosexual. I just

673
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: thought i'd put it out like it's not a thing,

674
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: is it? So you shouldn't need to feel on any way.

675
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, like required to open that door because

676
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make any difference to what you do.

677
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: And that's my aspiration, you know. I said to one

678
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: of my guys, is like, hey, mate, why don't you

679
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 2: just come out and tell everyone about it. I'm like, mate,

680
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 2: do you come out and tell people you're heterosexual? And

681
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: he's like no. I said, exactly, why the fuck do

682
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 2: I need to tell people sexual preferences? And he just

683
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: you watched them. He sat back and went, I don't know,

684
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: it's just what everyone does. I said, why do.

685
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 1: They do it? Yeah, because why do they do it?

686
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: What's your take on that?

687
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: It's it's a way in which they feel permission to

688
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: I guess progress that next level of self acceptance for

689
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: many many people. Unfortunately, it is also a way in

690
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: which many people use to gain attention and gain affirmation.

691
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 2: Per our love languages. People need affirmation. They need to

692
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 2: feel permission to be different because they're made to feel different.

693
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 2: They're not sat down and taught hey, you know, difference

694
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,239
Speaker 2: and diversity is actually empowerment, but you have to use

695
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 2: it with responsibility, you know, particularly if it's not something

696
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 2: you've earned, it's something you've been born with. My whole

697
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: aspiration is for this just to be so normalized and

698
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 2: we focus on the content and character of people, not

699
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: you know, their sexual preference, you know, religion, skin color,

700
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 2: all these things. When I was a kid, we'll talk,

701
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 2: never judge a book by its cover, But all we

702
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 2: do in society these days is put more and more

703
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: labels on that cover and make that the measure of

704
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 2: the person.

705
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, now, everyone, I've just looked at Heston's instapage and

706
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: hang on, steady on Champ. He's nine hundred people away

707
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: from one hundred thousand. He's ninety nine point one thousand.

708
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: So jump on, follow, Follow the little fucker, give him

709
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: a bit of love, send him a message and tell

710
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: him he's ace because he's killing this podcast. Tell him

711
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: how awesome he is. But most importantly, hit the follow.

712
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: Hang on, I'm going to do it right now. There's

713
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: you can you see the blue? Yeah? I can right

714
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: now live follow and I don't follow. Many people only

715
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 1: follow about two hundred. Oh wow, so you are now

716
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: part of my tribe, whether or not you like it.

717
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 2: Thank you, mate. I was at one hundred and four

718
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 2: thousand before the election, and then I got shadow bound apparently,

719
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: and I'm just dropping numbers every week, really blue tick

720
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: and all, mate, like it means nothing if.

721
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: You turn that around, peepsy, let's turn the big steering

722
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: wheel around all in the ring. A couple of questions,

723
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: So tell me you came out of the military. Was

724
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: it in fifteen, twenty, seventeen, seventeen? Okay, so five years ago.

725
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: Now there's a weird question. But coming out of the military.

726
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: Before you came out of the military, you were obviously

727
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: had an idea in your mind of what that would

728
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: be like. Yeah, so the idea of what it would

729
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: be like post military. Give me a comparison with how

730
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: it actually was. How was it different to what you expected?

731
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: Two key things. One was, again in the military, you're

732
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 2: working for purpose, whereas on the outside everything is based

733
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: on profit and there was a big sort of personal

734
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: disconnect with that. I never had to do that before.

735
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 2: And second was just the value set. So service within

736
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: the military, particularly where I was, came down to responsibility, selflessness, leadership, teamwork.

737
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 2: They were those sort of core values, you know, courage,

738
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 2: physical and moral courage. And then into the outside world,

739
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 2: responsibility is replaced with entitlement. Selflessness is resplace, is replaced

740
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: with selfishness. You know, teamwork is replaced with dog eat

741
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: dog Leadership is replaced with risk avoidance, you know, abdication,

742
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: passing the buck. There's no accountability, all these things. And

743
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 2: so I found that completely different. And it's funny because

744
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: even though you're in the military, you're still living in

745
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 2: wider society, but your outside living is more dwelling before

746
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: you go back into it. At least it was for me,

747
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: you know, there was really that rejection of those values.

748
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: But unfortunately, what we're also trained to do so well

749
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 2: is to assimilate into our new environment. And I found

750
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 2: myself getting on that gravy train, becoming entitled, getting you know,

751
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 2: fixated on how I looked, going out to parties, you know,

752
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: recreational drugs, all those things that are in society that

753
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: you know, we were drug tested every week on our

754
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: special Force of stuff, things like this, but you never taught,

755
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 2: you never had those adult conversations like hey, you're going

756
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: to go out in Sydney and every person, every bathroom

757
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: is going to be doing this stuff, and that's actually

758
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: the worst thing for your mental health as opposed to,

759
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 2: you know, just getting caught up in the short term

760
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 2: existence of it. And it really was a struggle. And

761
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 2: it was this whole collision of what we call this

762
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 2: moral injury or this dislocation from your values, combined with

763
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,240
Speaker 2: being lonely, not having a team, not having a purpose

764
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: that understood you at an intrinsic level, with everything else

765
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 2: being focused so extremely and it was a whole new

766
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: identity shift.

767
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,919
Speaker 1: Was there a this is a dramatic question, but fuck

768
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: it was there a grieving? Like when do you feel

769
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: like there was a grief period? Because there was a

770
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: loss or a sense of loss.

771
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 2: I think, particularly for me, I've been operating at such

772
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 2: a high and fast level that you know, it's the

773
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 2: I call pendulum swing. You've got to swing away. And

774
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed that first year living in the US. Again,

775
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,799
Speaker 2: I'd never been personally in love or fulfilled my personal needs.

776
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: I always focus on those professional so I really loved

777
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 2: and enjoyed that. But then once that pendulum starts to

778
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,399
Speaker 2: swing back to its resting place, you sort of sit

779
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 2: there going well, this is all enjoyment and I fulfilled that,

780
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: but I'm actually missing that deeper level of purpose and

781
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: value and giving back and service. I was missing that

782
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: element of being able to serve, to put the needs

783
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: of others before me, And that is where I have

784
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: really struggled. And that's where I missed my tribe. That's

785
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 2: where I drive past and army barracks and remember and

786
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: wish I could drive on and go do PT in

787
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 2: the morning at seven point thirty, which is the time

788
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: every base does PT. Just go join in a group

789
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 2: and go do PT. Go and be equal, go and

790
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,959
Speaker 2: be accountable. Do you miss that? You really do miss

791
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: that authenticity?

792
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: And so as part of your mission purpose fill in

793
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: the blank, to create your own tribe it is.

794
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: And I struggle with that, mate, And I you know,

795
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 2: I have my meeting, my weekly meeting with my psychiatrist

796
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 2: actually before having miss chat.

797
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: Well, if you're going to talk to a psych before

798
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: you talk to me, that's a great time, because I'm

799
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,720
Speaker 1: a fucking hand I'm a handful. So well done.

800
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. My issue these days is again my love language

801
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: is active service, and I love doing things for people.

802
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 2: So I continue to build relationships based on me being

803
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 2: able to do things for them and in order in return,

804
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: people get coming to me looking for ways in which

805
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 2: I can help them. But the way in which I

806
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 2: feel love is actually quarterly time. People who want to

807
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: be around me and be with me just for the

808
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 2: sake of hanging out with you. Again, That's why I

809
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: have a three year old dog. So I actually really

810
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: struggle informing those connections with people that aren't based off

811
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: any form of service. That's where you know, I contemplate

812
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 2: going back and joining a rugby team or joining a

813
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: water polo team. Finding that camaraderie where your actions are

814
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: that which define you as opposed to anything you say

815
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: or any perceptions otherwise, something I'm still working on and

816
00:40:59,440 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: I really need to.

817
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: Well, if you live down here and not up in

818
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: the bloody tropics, you know we could hang.

819
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 2: Out coming down there in November, putting together.

820
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 1: Hit me out buddy, you and me breakfast arm wrestling

821
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: you know, no arm wrestling, I reckon you might have it.

822
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So as much or as little as you

823
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:27,439
Speaker 1: want to tell me about twenty twenty when you momentarily thought, fuck,

824
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,760
Speaker 1: do I want to be here anymore?

825
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 2: Yep? So I literally had been other day at the

826
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: park of the day with my dog and came home

827
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 2: and I've got a message from one of my former

828
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: guys who told me that a person we knew who

829
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 2: I deployed Canisteen with beforehand and tried to take his

830
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: own life and tried to overdose, and he had his

831
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: young son in the back room. And there was a

832
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 2: long string of by that stage, known more guys who'd

833
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: taken their own lives than we lost in combat, And

834
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 2: there were so many factors going on. I was in

835
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 2: eighteen months worth of a fight with the Department of

836
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: Veterans Affairs. I was alone. I was suffering from depression

837
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 2: anxiety that I refused to ever see a psychologist to

838
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: admit any weakness as opposed to vulnerability. And it took

839
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: me to a place where I just sort of sat

840
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: down and applied every ounce of my professional planning skills

841
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: to pull apart what was going on. And the scariest

842
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: part is I had the sharpest moment of clarity I've

843
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 2: had I'd had in you know, three or four years,

844
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 2: where every ounce of me decided that what I needed

845
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: to do was to be the next veteran to take

846
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 2: their own life. I needed to write a letter to

847
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: Senator Lambee, who I'd connected with, and all of this

848
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 2: in order to and at this stage, I had, you know,

849
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 2: seventy five thousand followers on social media, and I'd been

850
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 2: on the news a couple of times supporting veteran things,

851
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: and you know, I was this picture of biceps and

852
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 2: Barry's boot camp and all this stuff as well. I

853
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 2: needed to use my profile to be that next veteran

854
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 2: suicide that would finally get cut through because I was

855
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 2: you know, when people say this, I was one of

856
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: those people that no one would have ever expected it

857
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 2: to sort of happened to. I wasn't sitting there drinking

858
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 2: myself into misery. I was excelling at the top of

859
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: my performance. And you know, for that five or ten

860
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 2: minutes or fifteen minutes, whatever it was, I was sitting

861
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: there so clear and set on my mission and purpose.

862
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,240
Speaker 2: And it really helped me appreciate and understand that suicide

863
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 2: can just happen like that. You know, it can just

864
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: take that mental shift where you literally think you are

865
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: doing the right thing. And as a story goes, my

866
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: dog came and literally put his head on my lap.

867
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: It was my time to feed him. And as I've realized,

868
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: for me, it was that service someone else needed something

869
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: of me. That sort of actually snapped me out of

870
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: that moment. And I sat there and I read the

871
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: email that I'd written in all of this and just went,

872
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: what the fuck are you doing, you idiot? Why are

873
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 2: you outsourcing? Just cut through? Why not get out there

874
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: and be that voice yourself? And that was that.

875
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: Well, mate, we're very glad you made that decision. And

876
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: what's your dog's name?

877
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 2: Copper? Copper, like the color like the metal copper.

878
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank god? Is it a he?

879
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, he's a good boy.

880
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: Thank god he came over and interrupted you, bloody the

881
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: rabbit hole that you were going down. Thank goodness for him,

882
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: and thank goodness. All right, now tell us about Voice

883
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 1: of a Veteran. What is it? What do you do,

884
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 1: how does it work? How can we help if we can?

885
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? So, Voice of a Veteran actually just ended up

886
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 2: being a podcast and a social brand that I started

887
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 2: up to start talking about my own mental health decline.

888
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: I then even then needed a platform that wasn't me

889
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 2: talking directly talking from a platform as a veteran, and

890
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: just took off when me telling my mental health story

891
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 2: really started to help so many other alpha masculine males,

892
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 2: and then very strong other females step forward and say, hey,

893
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: you know, I now have mission to acknowledge that I've

894
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 2: been struggling, and part of it has then been making

895
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 2: sure that the continuation of that journey for them is

896
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: through a lens of responsibility, not entitlement, because so many

897
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: of my problems came from again outsourcing all of my

898
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 2: problems solving to departments, agencies, politicians, and it's about getting

899
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 2: back to solving those problems yourself. That led us to

900
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 2: campaign for the Royal Commission, and I've then set up

901
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 2: the charity Veterans Support Force. It's the website is VSF

902
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 2: dot org dot au where we are a charity organization

903
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: and we support veterans and their families during the current

904
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 2: Royal Commission. We do projects, we do surveys, we've done

905
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: some campaigning up to government, we do community activities, We

906
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 2: support veterans who want to engage with the Royal Commission

907
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 2: and off that that is where I find my projects

908
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: with purpose back for the community of my people. So

909
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,359
Speaker 2: I want to get involved. Head to VSF dot org.

910
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 2: Dot au and otherwise it's whatever else comes across my

911
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 2: table that I find purpose doing and jump on board.

912
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: Awesome. Do youv dot org dot? Are you? Is this

913
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: your and I mean I know this year is your

914
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 1: purpose and your passion, but is this also your career?

915
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: Do you do corporate stuff? Do you do like how

916
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: do you make a buck?

917
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? So that's been and to be honest, I've only

918
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: actually had to start looking at that. So I did

919
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: the lead up into politics, which was unsuccessful this year,

920
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: and up until that time, I've just been sort of

921
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 2: living off savings that I screwled away, very conscientious throughout

922
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 2: my career. So I'm actually at that point where VSF

923
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,759
Speaker 2: stuff is all voluntary. What I do do to earn

924
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 2: a buck is I go in and do corporate speaking.

925
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: I give it a speech on leadership, and my website

926
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 2: Heston Russell dot com is where most people go to

927
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: get info on that. But corporate speaking workshops, even helping

928
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: out recruiters select people, that's the stuff I love. Anything

929
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: to do with people and teams and particularly leadership is

930
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,879
Speaker 2: my number one topic because no amount of technology or

931
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: you know, outsourcing innovation is going to help that. It

932
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: comes down to people and purpose motivations. That's how I

933
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: earn a buck.

934
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: And what do you do for fun mate? Do you

935
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: still train? Do you still lift heavy? Shit? Are you

936
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: still jacked? I can only see you from the kind

937
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: of the chest up, but you look like a fucking

938
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: hell mate. I shipped away.

939
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: Just I'm getting I'm getting back into it, you know,

940
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: particularly after the campaign, I actually let myself go. You know,

941
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: my mental and physical health sort of went by the wayside.

942
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 2: That sort of happened to those hyper periods. But I

943
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 2: try and get to the gym every day. I really

944
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: enjoy going to the gym and working out. I enjoy

945
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: a bit of sort of group fitness, And to be honest,

946
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: I've spent the last two years so focused on the

947
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: purpose side of the house, campaigning for those things we

948
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: spoke about, and then the politics piece that the rest

949
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: of this year is actually focusing on me. I actually

950
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,359
Speaker 2: got a contract to write a book on my own

951
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: memoir last year and it's finally due to get published

952
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: by the end of this year. So that's been a

953
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 2: real passion project as well. But I'm in the rebuild

954
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: and refocused face. And that said, fitness is such a

955
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: huge part of that fitness and nutrition that I need

956
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: to get back to. Absolutely well.

957
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: Mate, when you come to Melbourne, we'll lift some heavy

958
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: shit as well as have a coffee. It's really good

959
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,880
Speaker 1: to meet really good to meet you, great to chat

960
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: to you. What you're doing is awesome. Thanks for sharing

961
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: some of your story with us and maybe we'll get

962
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: you back again. I reckon, there's a lot more we

963
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 1: could unpack.

964
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 2: Thanks for letting me chack Craig, thanks to let me

965
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: have I call this my mental fitness session, so thanks

966
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: for just let me have that chat with you. And

967
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 2: there we go. Mate, you've got a man here. You

968
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 2: go elusive. I like it.

969
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 1: Heston Russell Voice of a Veteran. Is that the name

970
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: of the podcast?

971
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: It's now just called the Heston Russell Podcast.

972
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: Heston Russell and Russell Podcast and VSF dot org, dot

973
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: au TIF. Very good scouting by you, good job.

974
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: Tip, pretty happy, Thanks Hestin, Thanks Harps.

975
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: I feel like you might be on roll with the

976
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,439
Speaker 1: punches soon and you might be back at TYPO. Will

977
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: talk in a minute, but for the minutes. Thanks everyone, Heston,

978
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: thanks so much. We appreciate you.

979
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 2: Thanks great. Thanks Jeff