WEBVTT - The Stolen Generations never ended 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:06.840 For the pain, suffering and hurt of these stolen generations, 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:13.360 their descendants, and for their families left behind, we say sorry. 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.720 It's been eighteen years since Prime Minister Kevin Rudd made 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.400 a public national apology for the stolen generations. 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.600 To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:30.040 For the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry. 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.839 And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:40.640 proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry. We 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:45.080 today take this first step by acknowledging the past and 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:49.920 laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians, a 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.320 future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.200 past must never never happen again. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.600 As part of that commitment to right the wrongs of 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:01.920 the past, the Government set up the Closing the Gap 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.800 goals around a range of injustices faced by First Nations peoples. 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.000 One of those markers was reducing the number of Indigenous 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.959 children in out of home care. But nearly twenty years 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:15.360 into Closing the Gap, that number is not reducing, it's growing, 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.560 and today the number of Aboriginal Torres Strait Islander children 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.640 in out of home care is higher than the estimated 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:28.959 number of children removed during the Stolen Generations. I'm Daniel 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:34.199 James and you're listening to seven AM today Bungelung woman 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.600 lawyer and the former act Commissioner for Aboriginal and Tyrest 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.640 Right Islander Children and Young People, Vanessa Turnbul Roberts on 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:44.760 what needs to happen to keep First Nations children at home. 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:58.560 It's Thursday, April nine. Venessa, thanks so much for joining us. 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:02.280 When Kevin made that apology, there was a great sense 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.360 of catharsis around the nation. It was very emotional for 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.200 many of survivors, people related survivors and those of us 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.280 who just looked on of the Stolen generations. But there's 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.960 also a sense of hope that things may change. But 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.680 in that very same year the Prime Minister made this apology, 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:20.079 you were taken away from your family when you were 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.080 just ten years old. Can you tell us what happened. 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:27.359 I'm almost thirty and being near this age now reflecting 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:31.679 on that moment and reflecting on when Kevin Rudd gave 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.440 that national apology and the crisis that we are in 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:36.800 now as a nation when it comes to child removal, 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.640 when it comes to using punitive responses as opposed to 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:44.400 actually how we are holistically supporting families in communities, it 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.040 hits a different place. And for me, the night that 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:49.680 I was stolen from my father, that is a moment 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.320 in time where it's set the precedent of so much 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:56.280 of my work today, and it set the precedent of actually, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:01.720 Australia historically has a problem in its contemporary element has 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.800 a problem. And that was one of the most shattering 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.920 arts of my life and feeling what my father had 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:08.600 to go through, what my mother had to go through, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.240 and often what we don't talk about in child removal 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.560 is actually what siblings have to go through. And when 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.720 you take away your sibling and you separate that and 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.680 there is impact. There's impact on children that are left, 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.079 children that are taken, and the fact that there is 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.480 this whole system that has a significant amount of funding 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:28.200 and money allocated to it not responding in a way 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:28.840 that it should. 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.480 Tell me more about that experience. What impact does that 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.800 kind of trauma have on a person? 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.560 So I escaped what many call the family policing system, 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.600 some people call it foster care or out of home 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.240 care or the statutory care system. Here in Australia, and 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.480 I escaped that system at the age of eighteen, so 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:48.160 as soon as I could leave, I left. Many survivors, 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:51.280 including myself, talk about the harm of what's gone on 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.160 in foster homes, talk about the harm around what's going 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.560 on in terms of the physical, emotional sexual abuse around 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.720 children and young people in statutory care systems. We also 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:02.120 see it with our mental health facilities. We just have 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:04.920 to gather the data around who's entering these facilities, and 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:08.080 we just have to gather the evidence around who's incarcerated, 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.320 what's their story, what's their background. For me, when I 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.960 was ten and even prior to being ten, in our community, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:18.560 we grew up with three fundamental spaces that really shaped 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:22.119 what our community was. We had a prison next door, 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.799 We had a high sex offenders housing block, which still 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.359 exists today. And then we had one local underfunded community 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.359 service center. So the community service center was a space 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.200 where actually men in our community could go on access 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.080 whether you were if you were struggling, or you needed 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.080 an extra hand, you needed maybe an electricity voucher or 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.159 something to support you on your off week. That was 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:43.760 the place to go. That was the place that was 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:47.640 going to support you, but we also had a disproportionate 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.760 impact of the child welfare system visiting our communities, and 0:04:50.800 --> 0:04:52.560 we also had policing in our communities. 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:53.080 Nonstock. 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:55.360 No one wants to talk about racism and the way 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.159 structural racism has played one of the biggest fundamental roles 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:03.440 in child removal Todayalism in seventeen eighty eight, false idea 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.320 of protection leaning into the same paternalism twenty twenty six. 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.440 Well, let's talk about some of the numbers. Every year 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:14.560 the Productivity Commission releases data and Closing the Gap targets. 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:17.920 Target twelve aims to reduce the rate of abergin entristraate 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.080 Island the children and out of home care by forty 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.200 five percent by twenty thirty one. The reality is nowhere 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.920 near that, of course, and the situation is getting worse, 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.880 not better. Can you give us a snapshop of how 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:32.120 die the situation is at the moment. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:33.080 It's critical. 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.080 We're in the crisis and the people that are facing 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.040 that crisis the most is our children and young people. 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:42.600 Every time that we respond that the idea of separation 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.160 and disconnection is the solution, we are adding further risk 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:50.320 to that child's long term outcome and interest. So we're 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.040 then leaning from the outcomes of closing the gap, being 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.120 from the removal statistic through to where are you pipelining 0:05:57.120 --> 0:05:59.400 to then you're entering the statistics and closing the gap 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:05.200 around incarceration. Child removal is the undergraduate degree for an 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.640 honors degree into the youth justice system for a PhD 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:11.520 into the adult prison system. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.279 And that's what we're doing with our children and young people. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.200 And the fact that today, in this very moment in 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.800 twenty twenty six, that we have a higher rate of 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.520 forcible removal than the sole generations. That should be a 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.000 huge concern for this. 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:32.840 Nation coming up the pipeline from child protection to prison 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:40.000 and how it can be broken. Can I get you 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:42.760 just to explain a little bit more about why children 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:47.200 are funneled into the prison system, just to help people 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:51.960 at home understand how that connection actually works, so. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:56.120 When children are forcibly removed as a result of that 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.800 disconnection as a result of insirational trauma being triggered. And 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.719 Royal Commission to Child Protection was a really powerful reference 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.120 point that highlighted what's the impact of kids in care 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:10.160 and what's the pattern that we're seeing and a lot 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.000 of kids in care. When you are in that system, 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:15.600 the one thing you want to do is you want 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.000 to run back home. You want to run to someone 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:19.840 you know, and you want to leave, and you want 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.480 to flee safety. And then what we see is from 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:25.920 kids in care and then kids going into the criminal 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:31.240 justice system is such severe cultural disconnection, spiritual disconnection, people disconnection, 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.880 community disconnection, and family connection. And they're five really important 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.920 pieces of connection that you need as a young person, 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.680 as a child to really build your sense of regulation 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.240 and your sense of self and where you belong. And 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.240 any young person that is struggling with connection, you will 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.120 look for connection in some way, even if it's not 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:51.880 in the best way. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:53.600 And so that's when we're seeing a. 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.400 Higher rate of policing involved with our children and young people. 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.160 And it's that first incident or that second incident that 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:03.920 results in youth incarceration, and before you know it, because 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.520 of the higher rate of youth incarceration here in Australia, 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.520 what we then see is kids forming a connection with 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.160 each other in the midst of their disconnection, but. 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.120 It's then creating an environment. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.440 Where prison becomes their home and their norm, and then 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:21.520 that's increasing the recidivism rate of our kids because the 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:24.520 place that is consistent to them is the prison system. 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:28.640 But it becomes a key crisis point because we don't 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:30.200 want our children to die, and we don't want our 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:32.800 people to die. And we have a country here where 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.640 we are now at the highest rate of Aberginal deaths 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:36.240 in custody. 0:08:36.720 --> 0:08:39.720 Australia has recorded the largest number of Indigenous deaths in 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:43.920 custody since nineteen seventy nine. New data shows one hundred 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:47.600 and thirteen people died in custody during the past financial year. 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.200 Thirty three of them were Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.880 As you mentioned, Vanessa, the figures in twenty twenty six 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.480 exceed the number of children estimated to have been removed 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:04.200 during the Stolen generations. How connected is this situation to 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:05.079 past practices. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:06.679 Very connected. 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.560 It's because of those past practices that actually we are 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.880 seeing the detrimental impacts in our communities when we look 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.600 at the data and the prevalence of how many abajahon 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:18.800 Tachu are under children. 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:19.520 Are being removed. 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.520 It's our little people, our little people, Daniel, that are 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.679 making up the jobs and the industry. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.600 And one chapter I write about. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.400 If you get the chance to read my book, is 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.000 I really bring together the way the industry focuses on privatization. 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:38.600 It's turned into a way that there is profit on 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.800 the back end of poverty. And what I share is 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:45.840 the moment that we start punishing poverty, the moment that 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:49.040 we start saying to families and in particular mothers that 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.200 are fleeing domestic and family violence, the worst thing that 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:56.479 you can do to any mother is remove their child, 0:09:56.800 --> 0:10:00.080 especially in a circumstance of domestic and family violence. The 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:01.880 best thing we can do when it comes to system 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:06.520 impact violence is actually say we've got a safe space, mum, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.280 We're not taking you. We want to make sure you 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:11.640 and bubb are safe and together, and actually getting the 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:18.200 right people to respond to the urgency where it's happening. So, 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.960 for example, in my case, when I was forcibly removed, 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:25.040 I had fifteen police officers and that police cars stormed 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.680 down our housing commissioned street. You would have thought there 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.079 was a murder that took place. I was just about 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:31.400 to close my eyes and go to bed. 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:32.040 I was just. 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.600 About to sleep, and my dad walks on the balcony 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.840 and he says, bub I'm so sorry, they're coming to 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:37.199 get you. 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:38.840 He just knew. 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.560 And as Blackfellow, as we get intuition, we get strength, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.160 we get messaging. And my dad felt something was about 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.640 to happen, and it happened, and there was no need 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.240 for policing to be involved in my removal. And on 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:57.800 a professional experience, what I often see is policing contact 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.200 me and say, Vanessa, we know we're not the best 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.280 respondent for this situation, but the department are putting it 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.000 on us, and then the police are putting it on. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:08.640 The department, and we've got two. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.080 Big, big organizations and bodies that are blaming each other 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.800 around who needs to be the respondent. And in a 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:18.680 situation like that, I do acknowledge sometimes there needs to 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.000 be other different safeguard mechanisms in place, depending on the circumstance. 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.520 But send someone in who can actually say, hey, Mum, 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.840 hey Dad, hey Nan, hey Annie, what is it that 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.400 you need in this moment and before it hits crisis point? 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.000 Because we can tell by all the research we're seeing 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:41.120 here in the pattern here, let's actually document slowly what 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.960 needs to happen, and then let's provide the support services 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.200 that are needed, and that stems from housing sustainability through 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:50.719 to our children and young people being connected to our 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.640 sovereign lands and culture. But I also see it with 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.840 non Indigenous kids as well, the struggle, the impact of 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.960 the system, the system actually acting as a perpetrator in 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.839 circumstances of removal. Because the crisis is actually against all children, 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:05.920 it just disproportionately impacts our kids. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:11.199 Never before have our children been put into legislation around 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.480 the protection of their rights, around them having a say 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:19.280 in the future of their well being and the systems 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.160 that surround them. 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:21.280 So part of my. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.120 Role will be to go out and talk to kids 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.040 and get their voices. We can bring those back. We 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:31.880 can do inquiries, make recommendations to Parliament around the systems 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.600 from the voices of the children Vanessa. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.800 Last week, the Federal government passed a new law that 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.200 gives the National Commissioner for Aboriginal Tristrateile, the Children and 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.520 Young People su and Hunter new powers to independently investigate 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.959 systemic issues within the child protection system. How effective do 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.479 you think this will be in reducing the over representation 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.760 of First Nation's children in the child protection system and 0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:57.760 in prisons. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:03.520 So Commissioner Hunter is an extraordinary leader and an extraordinary advocate. 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:08.679 Her background is within the social workspace, and the difference 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.160 I think when you have someone from that background versus 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.640 someone from a direct legal background, is you have someone 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.080 that's worked directly with children and young people and actually 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.440 seen the stories of our people and what our people 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.960 have gone through. And with Commissioner Hunter's new statutory powers, 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.200 the one thing that she has is key independence. And 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.920 I had the privilege of working behind the scenes around 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:34.920 advocating for that independence, along with Snake and other organizations 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.760 and independence and academics that were strongly advocating just how 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.240 important it is that Commissioner Hunter has that independence, and 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:47.360 it means that there can be high level political transparency 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:50.240 because here in this country we are really afraid to 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.720 talk about what's going on with children and young people, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.520 and we are not centering their rights at the front 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.800 of every single discussion and every single action. And she 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:03.640 has the power to intervene hold inquiries, and I have 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:06.120 no doubt that there will be times where she may 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.320 be met with criticism from different states and territories. But 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.360 as First Nations people, we urgently need someone that is 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:20.080 independent at the federal level and able to actually say no, 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:25.120 this isn't okay. We had the United Nations denied access 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.640 into prisons when they came to visit Australia. That itself 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:30.920 is a national disgrace because it's what are you hiding? 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.440 And now we have a federal commissioner, Commissioner Hunter, who 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:40.000 can turn around and say I'm holding an inquiry and 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.200 there is an onus of responsibility of the minister to 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.960 publicly table that in Parliament and it's all eyes on 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.200 our children, it's all eyes on incarceration. Now. It's a 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.920 huge job that she has, but I truly believe Commissioner 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:55.760 Hunter is going to be a strong stepping stone as 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:57.640 long as she's supported and as long as she is 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.960 backed by the right people lead some public accountability because 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.720 the country is yet to know about child and rival 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.680 and the country is yet to know around the pipeline 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.440 of incarceration. I mean, we look up children with their 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:11.000 baby teeth. Still, it's a pretty big disgrace. 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.080 Vanessa, thanks so much for the working that you do 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.480 and thank you so much for coming on seven am. 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.080 Thanks so much, Daniel, all the best. 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.000 Also in the news, US President Donald Trump has agreed 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.760 to suspend the bombing of Iran for two weeks in 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.760 an announcement coming just hours before his deadline for Tehran 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.320 to reopen the Straits of Hormus or face widespread bombing 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.720 of its civilian infrastructure. The two countries are now set 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:50.680 to enter talks in his Lumbabad. The White House is 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:53.880 called the ceasefire a victory for the United States, but 0:15:53.960 --> 0:15:56.400 Iran did not sign on to Washington's report a fifteen 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:01.320 point plan, which called for an end to uranium enrichment. Instead, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.840 negotiations were now received from Iran's own ten point proposal 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.120 built around a permanent end to the war, sanctions, relief, 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.120 and reconstruction, while the proposal's exact language on enrichment remains unclear. 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.360 Under the two weeks cease fire, the Straits of Hormus 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.200 will reopen on the condition that vessels coordinate with the 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:24.240 Iranian armed forces and ben Robert Smith has made his 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:27.720 first court appearance after being charged with war crimes. The 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.760 proceedings lasted just minutes, with lawyers for the decorated soldier 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.160 not applying for bail. The matter has been relisted for 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.440 June four, meaning Robert Smith will remain in custody for 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.560 at least two months. The forty seven year old is 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:43.160 accused of the murder of unarmed civilians while deployed in 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.480 Afghanistan between two thousand and nine and twenty twelve, as 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.760 well as failing to stop members of his unit from 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.840 killing three others. I'm Daniel James. You've been listening to 0:16:53.920 --> 0:17:03.560 seven Am. We'll be back tomorrow.