1 00:00:03,900 --> 00:00:06,720 Sean Alymer: Welcome to the Fair and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:06,930 --> 00:00:10,139 Sean Alymer: We've spoken on a couple of occasions now to Stefan 3 00:00:10,139 --> 00:00:14,790 Sean Alymer: von Imhof, the co- founder of alternative investing community fund Alts. 4 00:00:14,790 --> 00:00:18,149 Sean Alymer: co. He's taken us through a few unusual asset classes, 5 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,540 Sean Alymer: vinyl records, domain names, even a guide to investing in 6 00:00:21,540 --> 00:00:25,110 Sean Alymer: art from emerging artists to buying a tiny portion of 7 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:28,439 Sean Alymer: a household name. Today, it's all about investing in music. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,409 Sean Alymer: Of course, it all goes without saying that this is 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,528 Sean Alymer: general information only. You should always seek professional advice before 10 00:00:34,529 --> 00:00:38,580 Sean Alymer: making investment decisions. Stefan von Imhof, welcome back to Fear 11 00:00:38,580 --> 00:00:39,030 Sean Alymer: and Greed. 12 00:00:39,450 --> 00:00:40,830 Stefan von Imhof: Hey, thank you. It's great to be here. 13 00:00:41,370 --> 00:00:46,708 Sean Alymer: Okay. Firstly, how has music streaming changed the industry in 14 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:50,190 Sean Alymer: the way artists are paid? A fairly obvious question, but 15 00:00:50,190 --> 00:00:51,360 Sean Alymer: I'd like your take on it. 16 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:55,290 Stefan von Imhof: So, as we know, the vast majority of music today 17 00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:59,760 Stefan von Imhof: is consumed through streaming services such as Spotify, which is 18 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,070 Stefan von Imhof: the biggest, and Apple Music, and then some of the 19 00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:05,910 Stefan von Imhof: less popular platforms, Google Play, Bandcamp and stuff like that. 20 00:01:05,910 --> 00:01:08,759 Stefan von Imhof: Now, everyone knows, or I should say a lot of 21 00:01:08,759 --> 00:01:11,759 Stefan von Imhof: people have heard that artists don't earn much per stream, 22 00:01:12,359 --> 00:01:15,869 Stefan von Imhof: and that's true. The artists really don't earn a lot 23 00:01:15,870 --> 00:01:19,440 Stefan von Imhof: on a per stream basis. It's less than one half 24 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,610 Stefan von Imhof: of one penny per stream. That's what Spotify plays. However, 25 00:01:23,610 --> 00:01:28,470 Stefan von Imhof: what streaming has produced is a consistency, a remarkable consistency 26 00:01:28,889 --> 00:01:32,429 Stefan von Imhof: in the number of streams that are streamed per year. 27 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:35,160 Stefan von Imhof: So, what used to happen in the old days is 28 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,530 Stefan von Imhof: that artists would come out with an album and there 29 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:41,190 Stefan von Imhof: would be a huge spike when it was first released, 30 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:44,520 Stefan von Imhof: and then it would taper off into nothing over the 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,759 Stefan von Imhof: coming years. With streaming though, what we're seeing though is 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,770 Stefan von Imhof: it's just remarkably consistent, it's stable. And that's what has 33 00:01:52,770 --> 00:01:57,839 Stefan von Imhof: gotten people to take notice, that stability can be securitized 34 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:58,981 Stefan von Imhof: and turned into an investible asset. 35 00:01:58,981 --> 00:02:03,240 Sean Alymer: Okay. Are all artists on board? I seem to remember people 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,209 Sean Alymer: like Neil Young, for example, refusing to go on Spotify 37 00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:09,660 Sean Alymer: at some point. I'm thinking Taylor Swift even might've at 38 00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:12,240 Sean Alymer: one point not wanted to go on Spotify. I could 39 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,059 Sean Alymer: be 100% wrong there, Stefan. But are most artists on 40 00:02:15,059 --> 00:02:15,810 Sean Alymer: board with this? 41 00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:21,569 Stefan von Imhof: Most artists have definitely succumbed to the almighty streaming lords, 42 00:02:21,570 --> 00:02:25,740 Stefan von Imhof: yes. There are definitely some that don't and haven't, but 43 00:02:26,070 --> 00:02:30,540 Stefan von Imhof: it's pretty much the vast majority of artists that have, yeah. 44 00:02:31,050 --> 00:02:33,990 Sean Alymer: Okay. And is it the owner of the rights to 45 00:02:33,990 --> 00:02:36,540 Sean Alymer: the music, is it the singer, the songwriter? Who else 46 00:02:36,540 --> 00:02:38,820 Sean Alymer: actually gets some sort of income from this streaming? 47 00:02:39,450 --> 00:02:44,850 Stefan von Imhof: Okay. So, music rights are extremely complicated. And just want 48 00:02:44,850 --> 00:02:47,668 Stefan von Imhof: to preface with saying that this is a very complex 49 00:02:47,669 --> 00:02:51,480 Stefan von Imhof: world. There's all sorts of different types of rights. The 50 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,900 Stefan von Imhof: biggest is what's known as a mechanical license or mechanical 51 00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:57,989 Stefan von Imhof: rights, and this is the most relevant, the most lucrative. 52 00:02:57,990 --> 00:03:01,350 Stefan von Imhof: This is any form of reproduction, whether that be CDs, 53 00:03:01,350 --> 00:03:04,710 Stefan von Imhof: vinyl records like we talked about earlier, or digital, which 54 00:03:04,710 --> 00:03:10,530 Stefan von Imhof: is iTunes, but of course, streamed through Spotify. Mechanical royalties 55 00:03:10,590 --> 00:03:13,739 Stefan von Imhof: are basically where most of the streaming money is made. 56 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:16,739 Stefan von Imhof: Now, those royalties can be split in all sorts of 57 00:03:16,740 --> 00:03:19,830 Stefan von Imhof: different ways. Sometimes the record label gets the lion's share, 58 00:03:19,830 --> 00:03:22,889 Stefan von Imhof: sometimes the artist gets all of it. There's all sorts 59 00:03:22,889 --> 00:03:26,880 Stefan von Imhof: of different situations, but mechanical rights are the name of 60 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,510 Stefan von Imhof: the game here. 61 00:03:27,809 --> 00:03:29,880 Sean Alymer: Okay. Now, before we get into how investors could get 62 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:34,380 Sean Alymer: involved, we have to take a little historical lesson involving 63 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,470 Sean Alymer: David Bowie. And I kind of remember this, but what's David 64 00:03:37,470 --> 00:03:38,670 Sean Alymer: Bowie got to do with all this? 65 00:03:39,420 --> 00:03:42,511 Stefan von Imhof: David Bowie, aside from being a rock god was- 66 00:03:42,510 --> 00:03:46,110 Sean Alymer: I'm sorry, Stefan, I agree. David Bowie, I think is my all- 67 00:03:46,110 --> 00:03:48,389 Sean Alymer: time favorite individual artist. 68 00:03:48,750 --> 00:03:52,169 Stefan von Imhof: Wow, that's so bold. That's awesome. God rest his soul. 69 00:03:52,170 --> 00:03:55,740 Stefan von Imhof: But he was also super innovative when it came to 70 00:03:56,220 --> 00:03:59,309 Stefan von Imhof: music as an asset class. So, he was the very 71 00:03:59,310 --> 00:04:04,139 Stefan von Imhof: first artist to actually conceive of selling his catalog and 72 00:04:04,139 --> 00:04:07,590 Stefan von Imhof: basically securitizing his catalog. And he did this, he teamed 73 00:04:07,590 --> 00:04:12,090 Stefan von Imhof: up with a gentleman named Pullman, and together they created 74 00:04:12,090 --> 00:04:15,030 Stefan von Imhof: what are known as Pullman bonds, or more appropriately known 75 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:18,930 Stefan von Imhof: as Bowie bonds. And so, this was basically a fixed 76 00:04:18,930 --> 00:04:22,618 Stefan von Imhof: income product where you basically, as an investor, you would 77 00:04:22,620 --> 00:04:25,080 Stefan von Imhof: get, I think it was about a 12% return from 78 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,509 Stefan von Imhof: investing in David Bowie's catalog. And that was the first 79 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:35,040 Stefan von Imhof: big example of music rights securitization. And it was actually 80 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,550 Stefan von Imhof: before streaming that this happened too. Now there's been all 81 00:04:38,550 --> 00:04:40,710 Stefan von Imhof: sorts of activity in that space since then, but he 82 00:04:40,710 --> 00:04:41,280 Stefan von Imhof: was the first. 83 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:43,349 Sean Alymer: Stay with me, Stefan, we'll be back in a minute. 84 00:04:49,410 --> 00:04:52,320 Sean Alymer: My guest this morning is Stefan von Imhof, co- founder 85 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:56,789 Sean Alymer: of alternative investing community fund, Alts. co. So, we've seen 86 00:04:56,790 --> 00:04:59,400 Sean Alymer: some big sales in recent years. Justin Bieber apparently sold 87 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,719 Sean Alymer: his catalog for about $ 200 million. Bob Dylan, about $ 300 88 00:05:03,719 --> 00:05:07,140 Sean Alymer: million, US, of course, I think Bruce Springsteen was about 89 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,960 Sean Alymer: half a billion dollars. How does that work? 90 00:05:11,370 --> 00:05:13,979 Stefan von Imhof: I mean, these are huge, huge sales, and as artists 91 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:17,219 Stefan von Imhof: get towards the end of their life, they realize they 92 00:05:17,219 --> 00:05:19,950 Stefan von Imhof: have an opportunity to cash out at- 93 00:05:20,250 --> 00:05:23,039 Sean Alymer: Hold on. Hold on. Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen, I 94 00:05:23,039 --> 00:05:27,330 Sean Alymer: get. Justin Bieber, come on. How old is he? He 95 00:05:27,330 --> 00:05:28,799 Sean Alymer: must be late 20s or something, isn't he? 96 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:30,659 Stefan von Imhof: So, he's not towards the end of his life, but 97 00:05:30,660 --> 00:05:32,698 Stefan von Imhof: he's towards the end of his useful musical life, right? 98 00:05:32,700 --> 00:05:34,138 Sean Alymer: Right. Right. Yep. Yep. 99 00:05:35,309 --> 00:05:37,558 Stefan von Imhof: Katy Perry just sold her catalog as well. And so, 100 00:05:37,559 --> 00:05:39,509 Stefan von Imhof: I think they realize as they're starting to hang up 101 00:05:39,509 --> 00:05:44,010 Stefan von Imhof: the boots, it makes more financial sense for them to 102 00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:46,680 Stefan von Imhof: cash out than to hang on. And so, they're able 103 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,349 Stefan von Imhof: to sell. And you might be asking who's buying? 104 00:05:49,349 --> 00:05:49,950 Sean Alymer: Yeah, absolutely. 105 00:05:49,950 --> 00:05:52,230 Stefan von Imhof: I mean, these are huge numbers. So, there's a lot of 106 00:05:52,230 --> 00:05:54,779 Stefan von Imhof: private equity involved in this, a couple of hedge funds. 107 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:58,920 Stefan von Imhof: But the biggest is a fund called Hipgnosis and Hipgnosis was co- 108 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,779 Stefan von Imhof: founded by Nile Rodgers from Chic. And so, this is 109 00:06:03,779 --> 00:06:07,770 Stefan von Imhof: the biggest music rights investment fund in the world. And 110 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:11,160 Stefan von Imhof: so, they've bought hundreds upon hundreds of artists and thousands 111 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,819 Stefan von Imhof: of tracks. And they were the first to realize what 112 00:06:14,820 --> 00:06:17,339 Stefan von Imhof: a lucrative opportunity this can be, and they're the biggest 113 00:06:17,339 --> 00:06:18,060 Stefan von Imhof: buyer by far. 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,090 Sean Alymer: So, is that a group that someone can invest in, in 115 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:22,770 Sean Alymer: Hipgnosis Songs Fund? 116 00:06:23,250 --> 00:06:26,550 Stefan von Imhof: Yeah, you can invest in Hipgnosis as a regular everyday 117 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:30,839 Stefan von Imhof: investor. Absolutely. I mean, they've got Hipgnosis Songs Management. They've 118 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,900 Stefan von Imhof: got Hipgnosis Songs Fund. So, I mean, there's all sorts of ways 119 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:36,869 Stefan von Imhof: you can invest in them. But now what's happening, which 120 00:06:36,869 --> 00:06:39,330 Stefan von Imhof: is really interesting, is that there's all these new platforms 121 00:06:39,330 --> 00:06:43,440 Stefan von Imhof: coming up, which have taken the securitization a step further. 122 00:06:43,860 --> 00:06:47,428 Stefan von Imhof: And so, these platforms are now allowing basically anybody, not 123 00:06:47,428 --> 00:06:50,849 Stefan von Imhof: just accredited investors or not just sophisticated investors, but anybody 124 00:06:50,849 --> 00:06:54,150 Stefan von Imhof: with 100 bucks to invest in songs that they like, 125 00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:56,940 Stefan von Imhof: which is a really cool and fairly recent development. 126 00:06:57,630 --> 00:07:00,870 Sean Alymer: Okay. So, just before we leave Hipgnosis, so the idea 127 00:07:01,170 --> 00:07:03,750 Sean Alymer: is that they've got the rights to thousands of songs. 128 00:07:04,410 --> 00:07:08,100 Sean Alymer: They're confident that people will keep using Spotify or whatever 129 00:07:08,339 --> 00:07:11,609 Sean Alymer: and there'll be a stream of money there. So, I 130 00:07:11,609 --> 00:07:14,310 Sean Alymer: invest in Hipgnosis knowing that they own the song and they'll get 131 00:07:14,370 --> 00:07:17,070 Sean Alymer: half a penny every time it's played. So, there's your 132 00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:19,410 Sean Alymer: income. So, that's right, what I'm saying there? 133 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,630 Stefan von Imhof: That's basically right, but then you're also betting on your 134 00:07:21,630 --> 00:07:26,160 Stefan von Imhof: ability to resell that securitized asset in the future. 135 00:07:26,460 --> 00:07:26,611 Sean Alymer: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 136 00:07:26,611 --> 00:07:29,970 Stefan von Imhof: So, you're basically betting on an artist, right? You're betting that 137 00:07:30,209 --> 00:07:31,830 Stefan von Imhof: this person is not just relevant today, but they will 138 00:07:31,830 --> 00:07:33,960 Stefan von Imhof: stand the test of time. Now that's a lot easier 139 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,230 Stefan von Imhof: to do with bands like Springsteen for example, or Pink 140 00:07:37,230 --> 00:07:39,929 Stefan von Imhof: Floyd's trying to sell their catalog right now. And I 141 00:07:39,929 --> 00:07:42,359 Stefan von Imhof: don't want to be biased, but I believe that Pink 142 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,510 Stefan von Imhof: Floyd will continue to be relevant 28 years from now. Right? 143 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:47,400 Sean Alymer: What about Justin Bieber? Come on, Stefan. 144 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:51,420 Stefan von Imhof: Well, so I don't know. It's a good question. If you want to make 145 00:07:51,420 --> 00:07:52,230 Stefan von Imhof: that bet, go for it. 146 00:07:52,770 --> 00:07:55,650 Sean Alymer: Right. Okay. So, tell me about the $ 100 idea though. The 147 00:07:55,650 --> 00:07:58,050 Sean Alymer: idea that I've got $ 100 and so this is the 148 00:07:58,050 --> 00:08:01,049 Sean Alymer: next step in securitization. I don't totally understand that part. 149 00:08:01,349 --> 00:08:03,719 Stefan von Imhof: So, what a lot of companies have started to do, 150 00:08:03,719 --> 00:08:06,029 Stefan von Imhof: I shouldn't say a lot, there's been a handful of 151 00:08:06,029 --> 00:08:09,420 Stefan von Imhof: companies that have started to use something called Regulation A 152 00:08:09,450 --> 00:08:13,680 Stefan von Imhof: in the US, which was a law passed about seven 153 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,380 Stefan von Imhof: or eight years ago. It made it easier to securitize 154 00:08:16,380 --> 00:08:19,110 Stefan von Imhof: all sorts of different assets and let anyone invest in 155 00:08:19,110 --> 00:08:22,199 Stefan von Imhof: those assets. And so, this Reg A has been used 156 00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:26,400 Stefan von Imhof: to securitize everything from collectibles to real estate to all 157 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,010 Stefan von Imhof: sorts of different things. Now, music is a perfect fit 158 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:32,610 Stefan von Imhof: for this because music's so emotional and personal and people 159 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,200 Stefan von Imhof: really ... They love Beyonce, but they have literally no ability, 160 00:08:37,410 --> 00:08:39,780 Stefan von Imhof: until these platforms that come along, they have had literally no 161 00:08:39,780 --> 00:08:43,170 Stefan von Imhof: ability to invest and own a slice of Beyonce's songs. Well, 162 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:45,809 Stefan von Imhof: now they can. And all in the past couple of 163 00:08:45,809 --> 00:08:48,540 Stefan von Imhof: years, some big names have come together in the music 164 00:08:48,540 --> 00:08:51,929 Stefan von Imhof: industry to launch a number of different platforms that allow 165 00:08:52,110 --> 00:08:56,340 Stefan von Imhof: basically anyone to invest in songs that they love. And 166 00:08:56,340 --> 00:08:57,660 Stefan von Imhof: they have some good ones on there too, which is 167 00:08:57,660 --> 00:08:58,468 Stefan von Imhof: really, really cool. 168 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,420 Sean Alymer: Okay. So, let's bring this back to investing, particularly around 169 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:05,880 Sean Alymer: the risks here. So, it's all fun and it sounds 170 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,639 Sean Alymer: great to do it individually or through a fund, but 171 00:09:08,639 --> 00:09:11,880 Sean Alymer: of course, having the right artist selection and quality must 172 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:12,720 Sean Alymer: be a big part of this. 173 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,109 Stefan von Imhof: Selection's huge. And I think that was the challenge that 174 00:09:16,109 --> 00:09:17,669 Stefan von Imhof: a lot of these platforms faced is how do you 175 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:20,429 Stefan von Imhof: get the good stuff? Right? How do you avoid getting 176 00:09:20,429 --> 00:09:23,280 Stefan von Imhof: the stuff that Hipgnosis didn't want or the big funds didn't 177 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,220 Stefan von Imhof: want? Right? And so, it just took time. And so, I 178 00:09:26,220 --> 00:09:29,160 Stefan von Imhof: think the platforms have largely solved the selection problem. Now, 179 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,889 Stefan von Imhof: there's some really great investible songs out there, stuff that 180 00:09:31,889 --> 00:09:35,370 Stefan von Imhof: we would all recognize. I think the bigger risk is 181 00:09:35,730 --> 00:09:38,040 Stefan von Imhof: not that any of this stuff is going to lose 182 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:43,078 Stefan von Imhof: popularity. Streaming isn't going anywhere. It's that an individual artist 183 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,900 Stefan von Imhof: may not be as desirable in the future or may 184 00:09:45,900 --> 00:09:49,139 Stefan von Imhof: not be as loved in the future. I don't have 185 00:09:49,139 --> 00:09:51,690 Stefan von Imhof: a crystal ball. I think there's only so much research 186 00:09:51,690 --> 00:09:54,208 Stefan von Imhof: you can do on that. Ultimately, it's a belief. Right? 187 00:09:54,208 --> 00:09:56,730 Stefan von Imhof: We don't really know what the future's going to hold 188 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,650 Stefan von Imhof: 30 years from now. Right? But- 189 00:09:58,770 --> 00:10:00,960 Sean Alymer: David Bowie will always be loved, Stefan. You know that. 190 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:03,240 Stefan von Imhof: I think so. So, that's why you want to stick to 191 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,828 Stefan von Imhof: the blue chip stuff if you can. Right? So, I 192 00:10:04,830 --> 00:10:08,461 Stefan von Imhof: think personally, Beyonce, I think she's pretty timeless. Right? 193 00:10:08,461 --> 00:10:08,881 Sean Alymer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 194 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:11,759 Stefan von Imhof: So, you want to stick to the big names. 195 00:10:12,059 --> 00:10:14,939 Sean Alymer: Okay. Liquidity, can you get it in and out easily? 196 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,010 Stefan von Imhof: Okay. So, as of today, that's a little less easy 197 00:10:20,010 --> 00:10:22,349 Stefan von Imhof: than it could be and should be, but I know 198 00:10:22,349 --> 00:10:26,880 Stefan von Imhof: these platforms are working very hard to increase that liquidity 199 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,840 Stefan von Imhof: and to basically bring market makers into the scene, which 200 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,660 Stefan von Imhof: will guarantee a buyer for every seller. Now, this isn't 201 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,350 Stefan von Imhof: live yet. These haven't happened yet, but I know for 202 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:39,479 Stefan von Imhof: a fact that these platforms are working very hard to 203 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,149 Stefan von Imhof: do exactly that. And once they do, that will give 204 00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:45,358 Stefan von Imhof: these marketplaces, these platforms that much needed liquidity, so you 205 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,150 Stefan von Imhof: know you can sell at basically anytime. That doesn't really 206 00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:50,640 Stefan von Imhof: exist today, but it certainly will and can in the future. 207 00:10:51,059 --> 00:10:53,850 Sean Alymer: What about regulation? Is there enough? Is there too much? 208 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,569 Sean Alymer: Is there fit for purpose regulation in this stuff? 209 00:10:57,929 --> 00:11:00,809 Stefan von Imhof: So again, the Regulation A, the Reg A as it's 210 00:11:00,809 --> 00:11:03,240 Stefan von Imhof: called, or Reg A- plus as it's known, that basically 211 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,819 Stefan von Imhof: created the framework for all of this, and that's been 212 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:07,499 Stefan von Imhof: in place now for a little under a decade. So, 213 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:08,760 Stefan von Imhof: we're well- established there. Yeah. 214 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,300 Sean Alymer: Okay, Stefan, before we go, we've talked previously about tequila, 215 00:11:12,780 --> 00:11:15,059 Sean Alymer: nothing to do with music. Well, maybe they go well together. 216 00:11:15,059 --> 00:11:15,718 Stefan von Imhof: A little bit. Yeah. 217 00:11:15,809 --> 00:11:18,360 Sean Alymer: Yeah. You've recently made some moves in this space, is 218 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:18,720 Sean Alymer: that right? 219 00:11:19,139 --> 00:11:23,458 Stefan von Imhof: Yeah. Tequila is North America's fastest- growing spirit, and it 220 00:11:23,458 --> 00:11:25,530 Stefan von Imhof: has so many of the same properties as wine and 221 00:11:25,530 --> 00:11:27,809 Stefan von Imhof: whiskey, but you don't have to wait as long for 222 00:11:27,809 --> 00:11:30,270 Stefan von Imhof: the maturity. You're talking about three to four years for 223 00:11:30,270 --> 00:11:33,659 Stefan von Imhof: tequila to become anejo or extra anejo. As opposed to 224 00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,610 Stefan von Imhof: wine, 10 years. Whiskey it can be up to 40, 225 00:11:35,610 --> 00:11:38,219 Stefan von Imhof: right? So, we're big fans of tequila as an alternative 226 00:11:38,219 --> 00:11:41,458 Stefan von Imhof: investment. And so, as the world continues to develop a 227 00:11:41,458 --> 00:11:44,098 Stefan von Imhof: taste for it, and as people realize how delicious it 228 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:46,500 Stefan von Imhof: can be, not just the really bad Cuervo stuff we 229 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,300 Stefan von Imhof: all had in uni, but it can be really, really 230 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:49,588 Stefan von Imhof: nice on the high end again. 231 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:51,000 Sean Alymer: Some of it still has that stuff, right? 232 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,809 Stefan von Imhof: It can be quite enjoyable on the high end. It took 233 00:11:54,809 --> 00:11:56,909 Stefan von Imhof: me a while to realize that. But yeah, I think 234 00:11:58,049 --> 00:12:00,720 Stefan von Imhof: the numbers don't lie. This is a great spirit to consider 235 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,870 Stefan von Imhof: investing in, and our fund has invested in a couple 236 00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:06,960 Stefan von Imhof: of barrels in Tequila, Mexico, the city of Tequila, Mexico. 237 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,690 Sean Alymer: Fantastic. Stefan, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 238 00:12:10,290 --> 00:12:11,370 Stefan von Imhof: Always great to be here. Thank you. 239 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:15,420 Sean Alymer: That was Stefan von Imhof, co- founder of alternative investing 240 00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:19,590 Sean Alymer: community fund Alts. co. That's A- L- T- S. co, C- 241 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:22,110 Sean Alymer: O. This is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Remember, 242 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:24,450 Sean Alymer: this information is general in nature, and you should seek 243 00:12:24,450 --> 00:12:27,929 Sean Alymer: professional advice before making any investment decisions. Join us every 244 00:12:27,929 --> 00:12:29,939 Sean Alymer: morning for the full episode of Fear and Greed, Australia's 245 00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:32,789 Sean Alymer: best business podcast. I'm Sean Aylmer. Have a great day.