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Speaker 1: This episode of Sugar Mamma's Fireplay is proudly brought to

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Speaker 1: you by moomoom, your ultimate investing partner. With low fees,

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Speaker 1: five customer support and chess sponsorship, you can invest with confidence.

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Speaker 1: Download the Moomoo app now and take control of your

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Speaker 1: financial future today. Welcome back to another episode of Sugar

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Speaker 1: Mama's Fireplay. Today, we're tackling a topic that I know

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Speaker 1: so many of you are curious about, shares versus property.

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Speaker 1: For so long, Australians have been told that property is

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Speaker 1: the ultimate investment. You can't go wrong with bricks and

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Speaker 1: watar How many times have I heard that? But is

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Speaker 1: that really the case?

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Speaker 2: To help us.

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Speaker 1: Unpack this, I'm thrilled to be joined by Michael McCarthy,

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Speaker 1: a renowned market strategist from Moomoom and Mumu is the

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Speaker 1: innovative online trading platform that is empowering every day investors

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Speaker 1: to take control of their financial future. So in today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're going to explore why shares might just offer a

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Speaker 1: few advantages over property. Weren't going to be talking about

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Speaker 1: historical returns, lower costs, franking, credits, diversification, liquidity, and so

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Speaker 1: much more. I might get a little bit passionate about

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Speaker 1: this because I think so many people really do underestimate

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Speaker 1: the value of Australian shares. Now, of course, this isn't

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Speaker 1: saying property is bad, far fromward, but it's about challenging

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Speaker 1: those traditional beliefs and opening your mind to so many

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Speaker 1: other options, but also other options to help you build

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Speaker 1: wealth and understand that property isn't the bill and end all.

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Speaker 1: And we're going to dive into the mindset of course

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Speaker 1: that holds so many people back from investing in shares

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Speaker 1: and explore how you can actually overcome these barriers to

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Speaker 1: help grow your own wealth in a smart, sustainable way.

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Speaker 2: So I'm a little bit excited.

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Speaker 1: Can we jump in right now together, Michael, I like

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Speaker 1: to start the episode. Never have a guest on the

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Speaker 1: show to ask you how you are? And it's not

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Speaker 1: just a service level how are you? It's a genuine

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Speaker 1: how are you going? Right now?

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Speaker 3: I'm going really well? Thank you can. I'm in a

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Speaker 3: sweet spot. I'm not old enough to be relaxed about things,

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Speaker 3: but young enough still to be able to do all

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Speaker 3: the things that I want to do. So it's a

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Speaker 3: perfect time of life for me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I like the sound of your sweet spot. I

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Speaker 2: need to be there more. Well, I don't, I need

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Speaker 2: to be there sooner.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, I'm really keen to talk about property

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Speaker 1: versus shares, and I have a feeling that we probably

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Speaker 1: share a common belief, but it really irritates me. And

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Speaker 1: I'm tell me, if you have the same problem when

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Speaker 1: people tell you that, you know, property is the only

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Speaker 1: way you can make money, it's there's no risk, you know,

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Speaker 1: this very sort of one dimensional opinion of property. So

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Speaker 1: I'm really keen to give our listeners, most importantly, some

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Speaker 1: facts so that they can sort of set the story straight.

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Speaker 1: I should say about really Australian shares versus property, because

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's just so much misinformation, there's so

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Speaker 1: much misunderstanding, and it's everyone just looks at it as

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Speaker 1: a tangible asset. So I am very excited about this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I'm just a little bit excited.

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Speaker 1: If you can't tell can we obviously before we begin,

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Speaker 1: it's general advice only here. This is, you know, educational

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Speaker 1: purposes only. If you hear something you think, ohy.

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Speaker 2: Should I be doing that?

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Speaker 1: Of course, go see a financial planner. But I want

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Speaker 1: to start with the historical returns because I said we're

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Speaker 1: going to focus on facts and figures here, because I

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Speaker 1: really want to arm our listeners with some valuable important information,

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Speaker 1: not just opinions. What are some of the historical returns

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Speaker 1: that you can tell us about shares versus property over

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Speaker 1: the long run.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot to unpack here, and I love

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Speaker 3: the way you bring the controversy can because this is

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Speaker 3: a controversial question and the reason for that is people

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Speaker 3: have vested interest on both sides of the question. Right.

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Speaker 3: People who sell property want to tell you property is

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Speaker 3: a better investment. People who sell shares want to tell

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Speaker 3: you that shares are a better investment. So to be

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Speaker 3: fair about this, we have to start by comparing like

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Speaker 3: forul life like. So we look at them as investments.

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Speaker 3: That is, you buy a house, you're not living in it,

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Speaker 3: you're renting it out, and you're getting a return on it.

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Speaker 3: That's an investment style. And comparing that to buying shares

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Speaker 3: and getting dividends on your shares. Now, there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of different studies over the years, so I went

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Speaker 3: for the longest study I could find.

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Speaker 1: I like that from I'm a long term investor. I

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Speaker 1: think that's more important than these little bite sized pockets

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Speaker 1: of fragments and type of time.

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Speaker 3: And so this study ran from nineteen twenty six to

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, ninety seven years worth of data.

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Speaker 2: I like the son of this same reliable and it.

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Speaker 3: Was quoted by somebody I respect, doctor Shane Oliver, very

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Speaker 3: well known in Australia. I loved sharing, and his conclusion

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Speaker 3: over that very long period was that shares are the

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Speaker 3: superior return. Now, the difference wasn't huge. It was eleven

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Speaker 3: point three percent versus ten point nine percent. Now, that

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Speaker 3: doesn't sound very big, but when you allow for the

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Speaker 3: compounding of interest year on year, that point four percent

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Speaker 3: difference turns out to be a big difference in terms

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Speaker 3: of the money you would have earned if you'd put

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Speaker 3: one thousand dollars into property or one thousand dollars into

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Speaker 3: shares in nineteen twenty six. So that's the best study

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Speaker 3: I could find. I have seen plenty of others in

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Speaker 3: my searches. One of the more recent ones covered the

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Speaker 3: period nineteen ninety three to twenty nineteen, so it stripped

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Speaker 3: out the GFC effects. Sorry it had the gfcnup, but

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Speaker 3: it stripped out the COVID effects. Anyway, the net result

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Speaker 3: there was eight and a half percent versus seven percent,

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Speaker 3: so a bigger advantage for shares over that period, which

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Speaker 3: surprised me because that's a strong period of property growth.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And does those figures look at the net returns

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Speaker 1: because obviously it's very expensive to get into the property market,

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Speaker 1: like stamp duty is a bitch, you know, it's a

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Speaker 1: big setback.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't take into account those transaction costs costs. It's

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Speaker 3: hard to compare light for like you buy property once

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Speaker 3: and you sell it once, whereas with shares, people are

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Speaker 3: regularly turning over their portfolios or trimming them or reshaping them,

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Speaker 3: so the transaction costs aren't taken into account there, but

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Speaker 3: things like tax deductibility are, so we'd have to factor

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Speaker 3: those in. And of course they're very different kinds of investments.

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Speaker 1: Now, I spoke about the cost of investing in stamp duty,

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Speaker 1: and obviously one of the biggest advantages of shares is

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Speaker 1: the lower ongoing costs compared to property. Can explain why

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Speaker 1: this matters so much for investors.

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Speaker 3: It's crucial. Containing your costs is one of the aspects

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Speaker 3: of investment that is very often neglected. The reality is,

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Speaker 3: the cheaper your cost, the lower the friction of your transactions,

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Speaker 3: the better off you'll be in the long run because

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Speaker 3: that's money that you otherwise would have invested that you've

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Speaker 3: had to spend on the cost of the transaction. So

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Speaker 3: stamp duty and realistate agents commissions are a very significant

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Speaker 3: impediment to investment success. It doesn't mean but you can't

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Speaker 3: overcome them, but it's a hurdle that has to be jumped.

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Speaker 3: Whereas when you're talking about shares and it's three dollars

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Speaker 3: a trade, the transaction friction here is very very low,

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Speaker 3: so that gives you a lot more flexibility about how

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Speaker 3: you invest.

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Speaker 1: I'm just the wear and tear, you know, having to

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Speaker 1: get a you know, an apartment for example, of a

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Speaker 1: fresh coat of paint or the carpets now worn out,

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Speaker 1: and you can't no one's fault. It's just natural wear

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Speaker 1: and tear like that. They're expensive costs and you know,

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Speaker 1: I will admit I own property and I own shares,

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Speaker 1: and I never get a phone call about having to

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Speaker 1: chip money into my share portfolio ever, if anything that

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Speaker 1: pays me constantly, whereas I'm constantly having to I guess

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Speaker 1: fill the holes on the leaking bucket literally for you know,

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Speaker 1: investment properties. It's just so like just frustrating, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it just it really does impact your cash flow.

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Speaker 1: Interesting to a friend and she bought an investment property

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Speaker 1: because somebody told her to, and she's like, I just

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly being hit with bills, and then my tenant

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Speaker 1: moves out.

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Speaker 2: Then I'm stuck for three weeks.

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Speaker 1: Then I have to pay you know, the the property

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Speaker 1: manager and other you know, couple of weeks rental because

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Speaker 1: they found me a new tenant even though I've just

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Speaker 1: had three weeks without it and I've had to drop

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Speaker 1: the rent. It's it's just the constant dramas and headaches.

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Speaker 1: As I look at that and compare to my comparison

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Speaker 1: to my property and what I've also your personal experience,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just so much easier and I lighter,

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Speaker 1: more efficient, U super time.

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Speaker 3: You'll never get a bad tenant in the share port Polio.

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Speaker 2: That's so true. I love that.

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Speaker 1: All right. Can we talk about franking credits because you

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Speaker 1: know I am you know, I'm a huge fan of

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Speaker 1: Peter Thornhill. I've had him on the show a couple

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Speaker 1: of times. I know a lot of my listeners also

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Speaker 1: love Peter Thornhill. Franking credits are obviously very unique to

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Speaker 1: the strands share market, particularly with those industrial shares, and

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Speaker 1: you know the fact that they grow on average sort

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Speaker 1: of forty five percent per annum over the long run.

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Speaker 1: Can you just break down for our listeners, well, why

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Speaker 1: they're so important, how they can really boost your income.

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Speaker 1: That is obviously the dividend income, particularly right now with

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Speaker 1: inflation worries for retirement, it's.

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Speaker 3: Crucial, and franking credits is one of the key drivers

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Speaker 3: of share ownership. It's one of the reasons so many people,

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Speaker 3: particularly in retirement, own shares. It's that ability not just

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Speaker 3: to get the cash flow that comes with the dividends,

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Speaker 3: but those tax credits can be crucial. And the principle

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Speaker 3: underlying franking credits is very straightforward. The companies have already

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Speaker 3: paid tax on these profits, and because the tax has

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Speaker 3: been paid, the investor, the shareholder doesn't have to pay

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Speaker 3: tax on the money that's distributed to them as a dividend,

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Speaker 3: and that has the effect of increasing the value by

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Speaker 3: forty two percent. So if you get a ten dollar

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Speaker 3: dividend and it's fully franked and you're paying the top

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Speaker 3: tax rate, that real value is not ten dollars, it's

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Speaker 3: fourteen dollars twenty. And that big grossing up of franking

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Speaker 3: credits is one of the key reasons so many people

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Speaker 3: value dividends so highly. And one area where the income

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Speaker 3: that comes from shares is clearly superior to the rent

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Speaker 3: that's paid on properties.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think people always need to sit to realize

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Speaker 1: this for themselves, like have those two asset classes and

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Speaker 1: go hang on this one is just it's so much

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Speaker 1: more superior on so many different levels.

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Speaker 3: Well about it is I think that shares have disadvantages

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Speaker 3: that you can't negatively gear shares. You can. You can

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Speaker 3: borrow to buy shares and negatively gear them if you want.

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Speaker 3: So that tax aspect is the same. Both property and

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Speaker 3: shares are subject to capital gains tax, so in that

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Speaker 3: respect they're the same. But the big difference between shares

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Speaker 3: and property when it comes to tax is those franking credits.

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Speaker 1: And they're so valuable, particularly you know for self under retirees,

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Speaker 1: you know in pension phase where they don't pay any tax.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've had clients receive like seventy thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: in tax refunds because of purely because of franking credits.

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Speaker 1: Like that is a massive boost to your retirement income

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Speaker 1: and it gives you so much more longevity and sustainability

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Speaker 1: and financial independence. And part of my own financial investment

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Speaker 1: strategy myself is to build up my franking dividends.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the property miss.

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Speaker 1: And give them a bit of a challenge In Australia

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Speaker 1: there is such a cultural bias towards property and property investment.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think it is that so many people

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Speaker 1: just automatically assume that property is the best, the number

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Speaker 1: one most important asset to build wealth?

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Speaker 2: Is it because it's a tangible asset?

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Speaker 1: Is that?

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Speaker 2: Is it as simple and is it embarrassingly basic as that?

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Speaker 3: Well? I think there are a lot of threads to that,

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Speaker 3: but that is definitely one of them. People favor we're

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Speaker 3: human beings. People favor things that they can put their

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Speaker 3: hands on, you know, that they can touch and that's

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Speaker 3: a natural human thing. It's completely illogical. It's completely illogical. Right.

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Speaker 3: The house only has value because people believe it has value.

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Speaker 3: That's the same as money, that's the same as shares.

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Speaker 3: They only have value because people believe it. But people

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Speaker 3: think because they can touch a house, it's different. It's not.

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Speaker 3: But that is a normal human reaction. There are a

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Speaker 3: couple of other reasons why people seem to think that.

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Speaker 3: One of them is the experience. A lot of people's families,

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Speaker 3: their friends have had very good experiences investing in property,

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Speaker 3: and that's a good thing, but they would have been

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Speaker 3: better off in shares, and that's not visible. They see

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Speaker 3: the house, they see how well they've done, They see

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Speaker 3: them retirement, going on holidays every half year. They see

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Speaker 3: all that, and they think that it's come from property.

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Speaker 3: In so many cases it has, But they don't see

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Speaker 3: the share portfolios that actually underpinned you know, those those

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Speaker 3: fabulous holiday homes that people have on a coach somewhere,

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Speaker 3: or all those things. Because you see the house and

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Speaker 3: because people tell stories. I mean Sydney in particular is

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Speaker 3: a property obsessed city.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've got to a dinner party, that's all

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Speaker 1: I can't stand it. I'm boring.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's that shared success that that has

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Speaker 3: given them the reputation. Nothing wrong with being in property,

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Speaker 3: but if you want the better investment, in my view,

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Speaker 3: you must look at shares Queen.

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Speaker 1: Move on and talk about liquidity, because this is a

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Speaker 1: big one, you know, with property, and I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, particularly.

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Speaker 2: Young investors, don't realize this.

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Speaker 1: And I mean it's not and I don't mean that

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Speaker 1: in a meaning or patronizing manner, but you know, with

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Speaker 1: property it's expensive, asterhol You've got strata, you know all

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Speaker 1: the lovely expenses that come with it. And then of

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Speaker 1: course you might get special strata. If you need to

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Speaker 1: come up with some money and you don't have sufficient

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Speaker 1: emergency money, you can get stuck. Because it's not a

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Speaker 1: liquid asset. You can't. So you get a ten thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars special strata leven, you don't have to spare ten

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars lying around. You can't just sell the front

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Speaker 1: door or sell one bedroom, even though it is probably worth.

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Speaker 2: More than ten thousand dollars. You can't actually do that.

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Speaker 2: You're stuck.

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Speaker 1: You Whereas with shares, if you know you had to

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Speaker 1: you could really sell ten thousand dollars with the shares

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Speaker 1: and that money would be in your account in two

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Speaker 1: working days. Yeah, So a lot of people really, I guess,

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Speaker 1: ignore until it's maybe sometimes too late or they caught

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Speaker 1: out in that scenario where they have to suddenly come

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Speaker 1: up with money. Commit to the how the liquidity of

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Speaker 1: shares can actually add even more simplicity and efficiency and

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Speaker 1: flexibility into someone's investment strategy.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and the returns argument and the tax argument, and

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Speaker 3: you know that can all be had, but this is

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Speaker 3: where shares clearly come out on top. That ability to

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Speaker 3: liquidate your portfolio in a single day is very powerful.

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Speaker 3: If things start going wrong, either for you personally or

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Speaker 3: in the market, you can act, and if you act,

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Speaker 3: you can get results very very quickly. Whereas in a

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Speaker 3: property market slow down, you might be waiting years for

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Speaker 3: a good buyer to come along, and if you have

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Speaker 3: to sell, you might have to sell at a price

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Speaker 3: that is very painful for you. And that lack of

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Speaker 3: liquidity and property is a huge disadvantage. And you touched

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Speaker 3: on another aspect of it. You can slice off a

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Speaker 3: bit of your portfolio. You've got a sudden tax bill

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Speaker 3: out of nowhere you weren't expecting. You can sell a

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Speaker 3: little bit of your portfolio to cover that cash flow,

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Speaker 3: and then as you recoup the cash over time, you

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Speaker 3: can reinvest it back in the market. So, as you

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Speaker 3: point out, you can't do that with a property. So

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Speaker 3: it's not just the liquidity, it's the ability to reshape

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Speaker 3: your portfolio to suit your life at that given point

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Speaker 3: in time. That really makes shares a much more flexible

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Speaker 3: and powerful investment.

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Speaker 1: Particularly as well diversification. You know, if you've had one

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Speaker 1: stock in your portfolio to do incredibly well, and you think, okay,

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Speaker 1: I've got a huge exposure to this particular company, all

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Speaker 1: this particular industry. I want to take some money off

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Speaker 1: the table and move on to maybe the next best thing,

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Speaker 1: or you know, just spread my eggs.

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Speaker 2: You can do that with shares.

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Speaker 1: With property, you say you bought a property and did

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Speaker 1: very well from it, you've got to sell that whole

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Speaker 1: entire asset, whereas you could with the share portfolio, you

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Speaker 1: could maybe sell half of that holding and then spread

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Speaker 1: it across say five other companies.

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Speaker 2: You're really stuck.

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Speaker 1: And then of course you're triggering with property a massive,

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Speaker 1: big hit with the ato assuming you've made a capital growth,

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Speaker 1: you know you've got to pay that to the ATO,

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Speaker 1: so you take a massive step backwards when it comes

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Speaker 1: to releasing that particular asset in comparison to as you said,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of quarantine the losses if it's going down,

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Speaker 1: but you can also help strategically manage your tax by going, okay,

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Speaker 1: well if I sell this asset, I can you know,

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Speaker 1: offset the tax here. You can be a lot more

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Speaker 1: strategic actually mindfully and proactively plan those transactions with that.

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Speaker 1: You know the fact that shares are so incredibly.

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Speaker 3: Liquid, Oh absolutely, I mean it comes to things like

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Speaker 3: the capital gains tax discount. For example, being able to

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Speaker 3: sell on day three hundred and sixty six rather the

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Speaker 3: day three hundred and sixty four is crucial. And of

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Speaker 3: course you simply can't time a property sale like that

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Speaker 3: when it sells itselves. You can move it around if

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Speaker 3: you can, but you're committed to it, so it's not

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Speaker 3: just having all your money tied up and then getting

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Speaker 3: slugged when you finally do release the value that you've made.

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Speaker 3: But there's another aspect to it as well. When we

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Speaker 3: talk about property, is if every property is the same

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Speaker 3: but because every property is unique. So the property market

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Speaker 3: might be going up and you might be sitting in

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Speaker 3: a house.

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Speaker 2: It's not right, I know, it's sometimes I find it.

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Speaker 1: So it's little pockets, you know, you know, houses of

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Speaker 1: that particular you know, that particular side of the suburb

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Speaker 1: or that particular area, or even like particular price points.

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Speaker 1: People think that the property market all grows at say

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Speaker 1: seven percent or five percent, whatever the number you want

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Speaker 1: to use. Actually it doesn't work like that. There are

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Speaker 1: certain markets you know that you know, see five hundred

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Speaker 1: to seven hundred thousand other property market it might be booming,

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Speaker 1: but whereas something over a say two or three million

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Speaker 1: dollars may have softened. Like it, it doesn't all work

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Speaker 1: with this this return that just is unanimously across the

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Speaker 1: whole property market. There's so many complicated sectors and pockets,

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Speaker 1: and you know, depending on obviously what the market's doing

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Speaker 1: and what the economy is, and what people are looking

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Speaker 1: for and the type of people also in the market

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Speaker 1: that are shopping for like that drives those numbers, and

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Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's not like a sweeping blanket return.

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Speaker 3: No, exactly. And if you buy a house or an apartment,

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Speaker 3: you're committed to that one house or apartment. It might outperform,

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Speaker 3: it might underperform, but your risk is tied to that

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Speaker 3: one investment. Whereas if you buy a share portfolio, you

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Speaker 3: can diversify across sectors, you can diversify across industries, you

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Speaker 3: can diversify across national borders and across currencies to give

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Speaker 3: you a better risk profile for the returns you're seeking.

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Speaker 3: You don't have that opportunity in property. You're committed to

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Speaker 3: the one property, and if it doesn't do well, there's

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Speaker 3: not a lot you can do about it. So you

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Speaker 3: could be in that terrible situation where everybody's talking about

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Speaker 3: how the property market's rising and you're quietly sitting there thinking, well,

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Speaker 3: my property is not. That's not the same in shares.

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Speaker 3: In shares, you can quickly adapt and roll towards those

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Speaker 3: shares that are performing well, and you can get out

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Speaker 3: of the shares that are not performing well, so that

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Speaker 3: you've got much more flexibility and much more power to

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Speaker 3: control your risk when it comes to a share portfolio

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Speaker 3: as opposed to a property.

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Speaker 1: Look, we're going to talk about diversification because I think

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Speaker 1: it's really important because a lot of people don't really

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Speaker 1: know how to actually diversify your portfolio and why it

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Speaker 1: is so incredibly important. We're just going to take a

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Speaker 1: very quick break to talk about Moomo. Who are today's sponsors.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: As you know, moo makes investing simple and accessible for

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00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,920
Speaker 1: absolutely everyone. With moomour, you can trade over twenty two

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00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 1: thousand shares, ETFs and more across the ASX, US and

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong markets and with low fees and brilliant tools

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Speaker 1: designed to help you feel more confident when it comes

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396
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00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,280
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Speaker 1: your financial growth and your financial dreams. Michael, thank you

406
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Speaker 1: so much for talking to me about this it shares

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Speaker 1: versus property debate.

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Speaker 2: We just touched on diversification before.

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Speaker 1: The AD break, and I feel like so many people

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Speaker 1: don't really understand what diversification.

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Speaker 2: Really is and what it really looks like.

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Speaker 1: People think, oh, well, I've invested into a listed investment

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Speaker 1: COMMUNITYTF that's diversified. Yes, that technically is. But there's more

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Speaker 1: to be done than just that. You can't just necessarily

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Speaker 1: stop there. Can you explain what diversification is, how it

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Speaker 1: fits in, and how you use, for example, Mumu to

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Speaker 1: help diversify your own investment portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Diversification is a concept that frankly, most of us are

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Speaker 3: already familiar with. We've all heard the saying, don't put

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Speaker 3: all your eggs in one basket, and that's exactly what

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Speaker 3: diversification is. Not putting all your eggs in one basket.

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Speaker 3: It's spreading your investments across sectors, across industries, across markets,

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Speaker 3: across different kinds of assets. It's across national borders. International

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Speaker 3: investing in shares is one of the fastest growing areas

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Speaker 3: of our business at the moment, and many investors have

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Speaker 3: a particular focus on the US, but we're also finding

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Speaker 3: good interest in other countries, including lately Hong Kong because

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Speaker 3: of the China exposures. And it's that ability to get

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Speaker 3: exposures to different nations, to different investment themes. If you

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Speaker 3: wanted tech exposures here in Australia, once you got beyond

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Speaker 3: the top three or four names, you're really struggling for investments.

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Speaker 3: But if you've got access to the US markets or

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Speaker 3: the Hong Kong markets, you can find all the tech

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Speaker 3: exposes you want, so you can get investments that help

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Speaker 3: spread your risk. The whole point of investing that the

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Speaker 3: main aim is to maximize returns while minimizing risk, and

437
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,160
Speaker 3: diversification speaks directly to that ability to minimize risk.

438
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 1: So how many different investments would you recommend to help

439
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: a person build a diversified portfolio? I know, you know,

440
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 1: if I look at back in my financial planning days

441
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: running a practice, you know you'd sort of say thirty

442
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: stocks across you know, a variety of different industries. What

443
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: are you seeing now as the trend when it comes

444
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: to diversification.

445
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 3: Well, look correctly answer to how much should I diversify

446
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 3: depends very much on a person's situation. Somebody who's in

447
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 3: retirement and is looking to get income and remain pretty

448
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 3: capital stable that not to gain or lose too much

449
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 3: when the markets move might be very well spread out.

450
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,199
Speaker 3: They might have more than thirty stocks in their portfolio,

451
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 3: including some higher dividend paying stocks. Whereas somebody who's starting

452
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 3: out on their investment career and has plenty of working

453
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,320
Speaker 3: life to build their wealth and build their portfolio might

454
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 3: decide it's a good time to take some more risk,

455
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 3: and they've got plenty of time to earn back money

456
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 3: if they lose, and they might decide that three or

457
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: four high growth stocks that are higher risk but potentially

458
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,359
Speaker 3: higher reward might be suitable for them. So I'd certainly

459
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 3: agree that for most people, twenty to thirty stocks for

460
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 3: individual investment, even in a self managed super fund that's

461
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 3: under three million dollars, twenty to thirty stocks is often

462
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 3: seen as a sweet spot. But if you want more

463
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 3: concentrated returns that is higher risk for potentially higher returns,

464
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 3: diversify less. If you want to be assured and have

465
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 3: much lower risk, you'd spread beyond thirty stocks. Once again,

466
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: it comes down to what your investment goals are, where

467
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 3: you are in your investment journey, and what it is

468
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 3: that allows you to sleep peacefully at night. Get drives

469
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: the answer to how many stocks should I own?

470
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: And doing a risk profile as well.

471
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: There's a great way to do it.

472
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: Some people say that the share market is very volatile

473
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: and it's risky. You know, it's akin to gambling. What

474
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: are your thoughts on this perception and how do you

475
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: answer that when you come across someone that might say

476
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: that to you.

477
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 3: People do say that to me Kenna. In fact, I've

478
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: been involved in a number of late night, robust discussions

479
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 3: with fellow traders over all sorts of issues in the market,

480
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: but the question being, you know, is it gambling? Well?

481
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 3: Is the Reserve Bank of Australia gambling when it buys

482
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 3: Australian dollars because they're low? Is Warren Buffett gambling when

483
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: he invests, you know, billions of dollars in coca? If

484
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 3: your answer to that is yes, then yes, investing the

485
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: stock market is gambling. I come to this with a

486
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: unique perspective. Can Although I've been in share markets and

487
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: financial markets for forty years, I actually started my career

488
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: in numbers on the racetrack. My father was a bookmaker.

489
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,919
Speaker 2: Oh wow, in horse resting and missuming.

490
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: All of them. Because my father was a mathematician. He

491
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 3: wasn't an animal lover. He was a mathematician, and so

492
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: we worked at all of the tracks. We worked at

493
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 3: the gallops as we called them, the trots and the dogs,

494
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 3: or the dish liquors as theirs. So risk assessment has

495
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: been part of my life since the age of fifteen

496
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: your blood, yes, yes, So I see them all as

497
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: risk assessment opportunities. Whether it's in a casino or on

498
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: the board, on the stock exchange, or on the currency markets,

499
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 3: I see them all as risk assessment. People make judgments.

500
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: They're happy with risk assessment, but they don't like gambling.

501
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 3: I'd argue they're exactly the same thing, and that without risk,

502
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 3: there's no reward. Yeah, people want to eliminate risk, but

503
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 3: they don't understand if you do that. And one of

504
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 3: the worst things I see in the investment space on

505
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: the personal level is people who invest only in cash.

506
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 3: Oh I know, and it destroys them over time because

507
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 3: the share market goes up, other markets go up, and

508
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: cash stays the same. And easily five percent does not

509
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 3: save them from the ravages of inflation.

510
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: You know what really worries me about that is that

511
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: people don't realize until it's too late. Yes, and the

512
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: penny's dropped and you're really stuck and you've lost time

513
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: and you're not necessarily in position to be able to

514
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: recover back to what you should be at. And this

515
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: is why financially see is so important. One of the

516
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: main drivers of the Sugar Mama platform is just to

517
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: actually give people the right information that can make great

518
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: decisions for the long term. And that's not to say

519
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: obviously cash is the worst investment ever, It's extremely important appropriate,

520
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: particularly for emergency money those short term goals. But if

521
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: you want to build wealth, stop playing in the savings

522
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: pool and learn how to invest in an intelligent way

523
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: for long term wealth. You spoke about obviously risk, I'm

524
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 1: interested to know how do you personally use mumou to

525
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: help mitigate your risk and to also diversify it, Like,

526
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: what are the key features you use within mumu to

527
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: build your wealth and stay in that sweet spot that

528
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: we spoke.

529
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: About it at the beginning. Well, so I use a

530
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: strategy that's very common. So, like a lot of Australians,

531
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: I have a surf managed super fund and so I

532
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 3: manage my own and I use what a lot of

533
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 3: Australians use, and that is a core plus satellite approach.

534
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: In other words, I've got a stable core of investments

535
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: that I'm in for the long haul. Now. They tend

536
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: to pay reasonable dividends, not necessarily the highest paying dividends.

537
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 3: There are a number of ETFs involved, and there's some

538
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 3: international exposures in that core, and that core doesn't really

539
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 3: change much of me. Well. Over the years, I've tried

540
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: to pick good businesses to invest in and stick with

541
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 3: those businesses through the thick and the thin, and then

542
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: around that core investment portfolio I put satellites. Now, one

543
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 3: of the ways I use the the Move platform to

544
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 3: help me with the identification of investment opportunities. I go

545
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: to the low end of the market and I search

546
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 3: the Australian share market by reverse engineering the prices. So

547
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 3: I start with the lowest price stocks first of all.

548
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 3: And you know, I think it's fair to say there's

549
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: some dross amongst them. There's some really potentially toxic investments,

550
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: but there are a few gems and the movie platform

551
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: helps me find them because it has the financial information

552
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 3: that allows me to gauge whether or not I should

553
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: be investigating further.

554
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: So you're like, one man's trash is another man's treasure

555
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: you're looking for, you know, the diamond in the rough,

556
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: the one that's been discarded, maybe innocently, is actually an

557
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: absolute gem.

558
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:02,239
Speaker 3: Yes, or even undiscovered. I'd love undiscovered. My background as

559
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: a derivatives trader really serves me here because I was

560
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 3: trained in a very unconventional style of trading derivatives. And

561
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: I won't boy you with the details of it, but

562
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 3: I used to say that my life is a search

563
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: for despair and denial because they were the two indicators

564
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: that often led me to an investment that, for whatever reason,

565
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: was being shunned that wasn't economic and meant that I

566
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: could invest in it. So I use the Movemove platform

567
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: to find those treasures amongst the trash, as you put it,

568
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 3: and the other thing I use it for. And this

569
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: is definitely not for everybody. I've been trading derivatives since

570
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety three. I've studied in this area, this is

571
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 3: where my master's degree is. This is not for everybody.

572
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 3: But I used the options finder on the Moomoo platform

573
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: because the opportunity to trade us options is very powerful

574
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: for me as an experienced trader. It generates alpha for me,

575
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: which is what portfolio I managed to say when they

576
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 3: get an excess return. So it's an opportunity to make

577
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 3: an excess And once again I won't board our listeners

578
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: with the technical details, but essentially I look to make

579
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: very small investments that might grow very large, but in

580
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 3: most cases will erode to zero.

581
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: So this is part of your satellite strategy.

582
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: That's right, And so I only commit a very small

583
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: part of the portfolio to it. I expect to write

584
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: it off and that it'll be made up for by

585
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: returns on other investments. And if it comes good as

586
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 3: about one in fourteen at the moment, do I get

587
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 3: a nice kicker to the returns on my portfolio that year?

588
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: Can I see you?

589
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: A personal question and obviously feel free to decline this

590
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: because your IP. But what percentage of your portfolio is

591
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: core and what percentages satellite?

592
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: That's a fair question and I can answer that it varies.

593
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: It varies depending on where we are in the cycle.

594
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 3: So the moment I'm over ninety percent core.

595
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: That sounds quite safe.

596
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm concerned about the short term outlook for the market.

597
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 3: So I've really battened down the hatches and most of

598
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 3: the rest of it is cash.

599
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 2: To be frank, why did Why are you worried? What

600
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 2: are your alarm bells right now?

601
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: Sir John Templeton was possibly the first global fund manager

602
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties, he invested heavily in Japan from

603
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: the US. He was also a philanthropist and a leading

604
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: investor in almost every way, and he famously said that

605
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 3: bull markets are born in despair. They rise on skepticism,

606
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 3: they mature on optimism, and they die on euphoria. And

607
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: the mood that I'm seeing in the US in particular

608
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 3: at the moment, but in share markets generally is euphoric. Really, Well,

609
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: look what happened after November five, after the US election.

610
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: The markets went crazy. They're already at record levels and

611
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: they've let in some cases twenty or thirty percent above

612
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: their record highs on the back of the election of

613
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: the new president and the new Congress.

614
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: And so when do you see this potential pullback and

615
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: buying opportunity? Well, what do you what's that magical moment

616
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: where you're like, all right, I'm going from ninety ten

617
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 1: to like seventy thirty.

618
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 3: Well, here's here's the tough part about it being a

619
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 3: qualitative measure like euphoria. It's very hard to time. Yeah, right,

620
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 3: And I reminded to time and define well exactly. So

621
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: the defining I'm okay with. I've been around for four

622
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: decades now, and so I've sort of seen a lot

623
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: of market cycles and I'm pretty confident my reading on euphoria.

624
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: And I do note that Berkshire Hathaway has sold a

625
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: lot of holdings and accumulated a very large pile of cash.

626
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 3: And it reminded me of nineteen eighty seven, now a

627
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 3: bit of history. For the younger listeners, that'd be just

628
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: about everybody but me in nineteen eighty seven. In March

629
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: of nineteen eighty seven, the markets had been in a

630
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: three year bull run and things were looking very very rosy.

631
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Everyone was positive. Taxi drivers were asking about what shares

632
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 3: they should be buying, and at that time Australia's richest man,

633
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,959
Speaker 3: mister Kerry Packer, sold out every share he owned in

634
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 3: March of nineteen eighty seven. Now in October of nineteen

635
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: eighty seven, we had the Black Monday crash and the

636
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: share market in Australia. And remember it's above the eight

637
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: thousand mark. The share market at that time was at

638
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 3: twenty three hundred and fifty two. That was the high,

639
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: and it fell to below eight hundred. It was horrific. Now,

640
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: mister Packard missed out on fifteen percent of the gains

641
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 3: between March of eighty seven and October of eighty seven,

642
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: the market had gone up another fifteen percent. But when

643
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 3: he avoided the sixty five percent plus fall in the

644
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: market and had cash to buy bargains, he did the

645
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: deal of a lifetime when he brought back Channel nine

646
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 3: from alman Born.

647
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: One thing I always think as an investor, I'd never

648
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: get greedy. I don't want to pick the per top

649
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: and I don't want to pick the bottom. I'm in

650
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: it for the long run. It's such a danger in

651
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: trying to get the absolute like squeeze every single scent

652
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 1: out of your portfolio, like you're never going to get

653
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: it right, or if you do, you're going to get

654
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: it wrong the next seven times ahead of that, and

655
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: just don't be greedy, be.

656
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 3: Intelligent, You're so right. Don't pick tops and bottoms. That's

657
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: the way it's often put. Professional traders say, finess and die.

658
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: Oh I like it when you try and finess that

659
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 3: last little bit and get that last little bit extra

660
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: the market against you, And yes, you lose a lot

661
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: of what you would have had.

662
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know that sounds harsh, but you know,

663
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: when you're trying to build wealth, you know you want

664
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: it to obviously pull every single dollar out of your

665
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: portfolio and be as smart and strategic as possible, but

666
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: it can come with so much regret and you know

667
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: things are out of your control to a certain degree.

668
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 1: How do you use moomur yourself, like when it comes

669
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: to just your building that core portfolio? Like what you know,

670
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: for a new listener that's not ready to start building

671
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: a satellite portfolio and use that type of strategy, which

672
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: is I think a brilliant one. How would they use

673
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: the Movio app and to build that portfolio like you

674
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 1: have the core that.

675
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 3: Is well, the think about it is it very much

676
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 3: depends on where a person is in their investment journey.

677
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 3: So for me, I start with the macro, I look

678
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 3: at the globe, and I look at the big trends

679
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 3: of driving markets, and then I work my way down

680
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: to some themes and then I and often I'll then

681
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: take part in the community forums on the movie platform.

682
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 3: And then once I've sort of got a sense of

683
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: what the market's thinking, I start thinking about individual stocks

684
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: and I use the screeners on the Momoo platform to

685
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 3: identify the stocks that I want. Now, the screens are

686
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 3: very powerful. They can screen on all sorts of different criteria.

687
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 3: Whether you measure companies fundamentally, you want to know things

688
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 3: about the cash flow, their profitability, their return on equity.

689
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 3: That's one way and our screens will do that. But

690
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,399
Speaker 3: you can also put in technical analysis signals. So if

691
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: you like, for example, head and shoulders formations and think

692
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 3: that they tell you something, you can use that as

693
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: a criteria on a screen and identify charts that have

694
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 3: that pattern that you're looking for. So, whatever way you

695
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: use to choose the stocks, the screeners are very powerful.

696
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 3: And one of the things we have noticed on the

697
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: platform is a huge growth in ETF investment, and it

698
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 3: just makes sense economically. In one transaction, you can get

699
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: a tailed exposure, whether that's a favored tech stock falling

700
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 3: or whether that's to a portfolio of stocks that represents

701
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 3: the ASEX two hundred. You can get that in one

702
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 3: transaction and hold that and so identifying which ETFs are

703
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 3: best for you is a key and once again the

704
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: screens will help. You can go into the ETF section

705
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: of the moon Move platform and it'll give you thematics investment,

706
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 3: thematics and if that's if thematic you're looking at. You

707
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: click on that, it brings up a list of applicable

708
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: atfs ETF sorry ETFs, and you then click on the ETF.

709
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 3: You can drill through to find out more detail about

710
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 3: how it performs and you can see chart of it

711
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 3: at the same time.

712
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: And I love this on app So you can literally

713
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: do this like sitting on the bus or the train

714
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: on your way to work, or lying in bed at night,

715
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: you know, or when you wake up in the morning.

716
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: It can literally be done in the moment, and you

717
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: don't need to be sitting there spending hours looking at

718
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,959
Speaker 1: screens on a desktop, you know, cross referencing, running excels Bridge.

719
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: Everything's there for.

720
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 3: You absolutely, and in fact, Moumou was the first AI

721
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 3: enabled platform. Now that artificial intelligence worry some people, they

722
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: worry about where it's going. Perhaps one day the machines

723
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 3: will take over. I'm here to say no, they will not.

724
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 3: AI is just a bunch of algorithms that do jobs

725
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 3: that you ask them to do, and so we use

726
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 3: AI on the moomou platform to put the relevant information

727
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:52,719
Speaker 3: in front of the investor as they're looking for it.

728
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: So if you put Meta, for example, the US stock

729
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,919
Speaker 3: that's so popular, the owner of Facebook and another app

730
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 3: apps that are very popular. If you put Meta into

731
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 3: our platform, not only will you see it's stock code,

732
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 3: but you'll see related information and related tradeable instruments, so

733
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 3: that if you just want to invest straight into MATA,

734
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 3: you can go straight into that. But if you wanted

735
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 3: to tailor your investment or perhaps look at a portfolio

736
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 3: of stocks that are similar to MATA that are wrapped

737
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 3: in an ETF, you can find that on the Meumu platform.

738
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 3: So we use the AI to put the relevant information

739
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 3: in front of you, whether that's a chart for you,

740
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 3: whether that's the financial information about the company, or whether

741
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 3: that's something else about the company and it's related stocks.

742
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 3: That information is brought to the front when you select

743
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: a stock. So we'll be using the power of AI

744
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 3: to put the most important information in front of investors.

745
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: All right, as we wrap up today's episode, for our

746
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: listeners who really want to get into shares and understand

747
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: that property isn't for them or it's just something that's

748
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: just doesn't float their boat. If they want to start

749
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: investing in shares but don't necessarily have much money to

750
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: get started, what are your tips, Like, you know, what

751
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: would you say to your son or your daughter or

752
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, my eleven year old son, Like, what would

753
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: your advice be to them about getting started in shares

754
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: with a small amount of money.

755
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you've raised a good point which

756
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 3: we haven't touched on yet. You do need a lot

757
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: of money to get into the property market, but you

758
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 3: can get into the share market with as little as

759
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars, so you can start at a much

760
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 3: earlier point in your investment career, if you want to

761
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 3: put it that way. But what I would say is

762
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: do some paper trading.

763
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: Yes, so you can do that through the movie.

764
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's a very popular module. In fact, we run

765
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: paper trading competitions regularly in conjunction with our global partner Nasdak,

766
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: so that you can test your ideas, not just in

767
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: the market, but against fellow traders and investors, and a

768
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 3: lot of people get a real kick out of that.

769
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: We just conclude to putition even going, I think at

770
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 2: the moment.

771
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: Absolutely so we've just completed one and there's another one

772
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 3: starting very soon, and we run them regularly because they

773
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 3: are a powerful learning experience. You can read all the

774
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 3: books you like, or read all the web pages you like,

775
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: but until you actually start picking stocks and purchasing them

776
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: and seeing how they go, you haven't really come up

777
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 3: with you know, you haven't got to a point where

778
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 3: you can say you've got a good formula. So being

779
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,120
Speaker 3: able to paper trade is ideal because in paper trading,

780
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 3: you're playing with paper money. There's no real money at risk.

781
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 2: It's a dress rehearsal.

782
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 3: There we go the perfect analogy. That's exactly what it is.

783
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 3: So you can do all the things that you would

784
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 3: do in making an investment. Identify it, execute it, monitor it,

785
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: see how it goes and nobody ever gets hurt because

786
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 3: it's all on paper. Now, that means you don't get

787
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: the rewards either, So if you're picked well and it

788
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: goes up, you don't get paid either. But It's a

789
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: great way to test your ideas before you actually put

790
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 3: your money at.

791
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 2: Risk, and then you are ready and prepped for opening night.

792
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: I love the analogy.

793
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: Well, look, Michael, thank you so much for coming on

794
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: today's episode. I really appreciate it, and I mean your opinions,

795
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: your insights, your facts and figures are incredibly important, and

796
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: particularly right now when so many people feel overwhelmed, you know,

797
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: with all the different opinions and you know, statements, and

798
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: you know, I guess seeing the herd mentality as well,

799
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: particularly obviously around property. So I think for people hearing

800
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: today's episode, they'll realize that, okay, property isn't the bill

801
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: in it all, there is actually something quite possibly far

802
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 1: moot more superior, efficient, effective, and just so much easier

803
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: both financially, mentally and energetically, I will say, and I'm

804
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: saying that from someone who has, you know, fingers in

805
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: both pies. So thank you for this, and today again

806
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 1: a huge thank you to Mumoo for sponsoring this episode

807
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: of Sugar Mama's Fireplay. As I have said, if you

808
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 1: are looking for a smarter, easier way to invest, Moomu

809
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: has you covered and they have low fees incredibly intruitive tools,

810
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: many of different ones as well which I've used personally,

811
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: and of course expert driven insights. So even if you're

812
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: just a tiny bit interested, join the Mumu community today.

813
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: Just simply download the app and start your journey towards

814
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: financial freedom with Mumu. I promise you. Investing has never

815
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: been simpler and more inspiring.

816
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone for listening.

817
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: To today's episode. This is Sugar Mamma's fireplay. I will

818
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: see you next Monday, and of course please take a

819
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: moment to leave a rating and review and let us

820
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 1: know what you would like to hear more of. I

821
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: am here to help you, I'm here to guide you.

822
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm here to motivate you. This is Sugar Mama's fireplay

823
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: Chow for now.