WEBVTT - Jews don’t want ‘thoughts and prayers’

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, December seventeen, twenty twenty five. Thoughts and prayers.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the easiest and most glib of social media platitudes.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd like to be seen expressing sorrow, but I won't

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<v Speaker 1>be going deeper. After the death of George Floyd, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a black square when the Iranian government murdered girls

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<v Speaker 1>for removing their veils, it was a performative haircut. Now

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<v Speaker 1>it's a lengthy post expressing shock and horror. It's something

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<v Speaker 1>that Jews have been telling us to expect, that racism

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<v Speaker 1>and suspicion morphing into bullets ripping through flesh. In the

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<v Speaker 1>aftermath of the weekend's Bonda Beach massacre, in which fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>people were murdered, including a ten year old girl, some

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<v Speaker 1>of the loudest performative mourners were people who've spent the

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<v Speaker 1>years since October seven, twenty twenty three, demonizing Israel and Zionists.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, and there's been a flood of

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<v Speaker 1>take care of yourself messaging from schools, workplaces and well

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<v Speaker 1>meaning people on WhatsApp advising parents to shield their children

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<v Speaker 1>from this news that's changed the world. They're going to

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<v Speaker 1>inherit today the Australians. Yonni Bashan joins me to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about how this story is changing as the sounds of

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<v Speaker 1>sirens fate. At six point forty seven pm on Sunday night,

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<v Speaker 1>bullets started flying at Bondai Beach, and well before any

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<v Speaker 1>of us really knew what was going on, we were

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<v Speaker 1>getting reports and calls about a big police event down

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<v Speaker 1>at the beach. You and I both work at The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian and across the country and in Sydney, all of

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<v Speaker 1>our staff suddenly clocked on, even the ones who weren't working.

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<v Speaker 1>I started filing stories. You raced down to Bondai Beach.

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<v Speaker 1>But it wasn't long on Sunday before opinions started to flow.

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<v Speaker 1>Once it was clear that this was a shooting, that

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<v Speaker 1>it had targeted Jewish people at a Hunnaker event, and

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<v Speaker 1>that many people were dead and seriously injured, social media

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<v Speaker 1>started lighting up with the old cliche thoughts and prayers,

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<v Speaker 1>people saying that they were shocked, and some of those

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<v Speaker 1>people were also posting amazing eyewitness vision of what they'd

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<v Speaker 1>seen that's been incredibly useful for us. What was your

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<v Speaker 1>reaction as you started to see those opinions coming in,

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<v Speaker 1>not just.

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<v Speaker 2>Facts, I mean, I think in the vacuum of fact,

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<v Speaker 2>opinion arrives. And we've seen that in so many other scenarios.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw it during the Bondi Junction stabbing event. That

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<v Speaker 2>was a mass casualty event, and everyone had an opinion

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<v Speaker 2>on the motivation for that before we eventually found out

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<v Speaker 2>who was behind it and what their motivation was. And

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<v Speaker 2>we saw the same thing with the Link Cafes age

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty fourteen, and there are still divided opinions over

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<v Speaker 2>what was cruly motivating that. In the end, with this

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<v Speaker 2>particular event, I took a moment when I was down

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<v Speaker 2>at the beach to sort of catch up on the facts, because,

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<v Speaker 2>as you would know, there are so many sources of

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<v Speaker 2>information rushing in at the same time, and when you're

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<v Speaker 2>standing at a police court and waiting for an event

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<v Speaker 2>to happen, such as are coming out or an eyewitness

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<v Speaker 2>to turn up, you can get lost in what's happening

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<v Speaker 2>around you, and you can forget that there are other

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<v Speaker 2>sources of information coming in from the hospitals, from the

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<v Speaker 2>police headquarters, from the politicians, and so I just took

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<v Speaker 2>a beat to step back, go through my phone, have

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<v Speaker 2>a look at Twitter, have a look at Instagram, see

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<v Speaker 2>some of the footage that was coming in. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>when I saw some of the opinions cropping up on

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<v Speaker 2>my screen. And what surprised and slightly galled me was

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<v Speaker 2>that the people who were expressing these opinions, the thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>and prayers, the shock, not so much remorse, but certainly

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<v Speaker 2>they're surprised that an event like this would happen at

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<v Speaker 2>Bondo Beach were the very people who, in my mind

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<v Speaker 2>and in the mind of a lot of Jewish people

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<v Speaker 2>around Australia have been watching for the past two years,

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<v Speaker 2>animating this discussion and animating it to an extent where

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<v Speaker 2>we have felt unsafe, where it's been largely unsafe for

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<v Speaker 2>us to express our Jewish identity in a really wholesome

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<v Speaker 2>way and in a way that in Australia we've always

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<v Speaker 2>been able to do. It's never been a problem to

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<v Speaker 2>say to someone in this country that you're Jewish. It

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<v Speaker 2>now has been a problem for the past two years,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's something that I know a lot of Jews

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<v Speaker 2>are self conscious about. You can imagine it You're having

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<v Speaker 2>a conversation with someone you've never met before, and they

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<v Speaker 2>might ask you where you're from, and if you say

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<v Speaker 2>that you're from Israel, as I am at best, they

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<v Speaker 2>might be uncomfortable with that because morally responsible people are

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to have an opinion on wars that are taking

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<v Speaker 2>shape around the world. We're supposed to have an opinion

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<v Speaker 2>on Russia and Ukraine, We're supposed to have an opinion

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<v Speaker 2>on Israel and Kamas, And so when you express that

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<v Speaker 2>to someone, they don't really know what to say. And

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<v Speaker 2>on the other end of that spectrum of people who

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<v Speaker 2>have very strong opinions about that and might judge you accordingly.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's been tough.

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<v Speaker 1>It's been interesting watching you go through that. We're really

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<v Speaker 1>good friends, and I often get extremely annoyed and angry

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<v Speaker 1>on your behalf about slights that you're receiving or telling

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<v Speaker 1>me about or that I observe, and you are, I

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<v Speaker 1>think dealing with those with on a lot more of

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<v Speaker 1>an even keel than I am. I'm enraged and you

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<v Speaker 1>are dealing with it quite calmly. But do you actually

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<v Speaker 1>feel calm? And has your opinion change since Sunday?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think my opinion has changed the the thread

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<v Speaker 2>environment in this country. I think my feeling about the

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<v Speaker 2>threat environment was always very much deligned with what our

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<v Speaker 2>Jewish leaders had been warning and what the Israeli government

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<v Speaker 2>had been saying for quite a long time, which is

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<v Speaker 2>that a city in Australia will almost certainly come under

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<v Speaker 2>some form of attack motivated by hatred towards Jews at

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<v Speaker 2>some point in the future. And I remember distinctly, after

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<v Speaker 2>Alex Rivchin's home was attacked, he was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>first people to say, it's not a matter of if,

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<v Speaker 2>but when. And I don't think anyone quite expected that

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<v Speaker 2>what would happen at Bondi Beach A would occur, and

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<v Speaker 2>be that it would be of such a significant scale,

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<v Speaker 2>with such an intelligence failing underpinning at I think what

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<v Speaker 2>we expected was stronger leadership on the issue of anti

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<v Speaker 2>Semitism and what again remained so striking and galling about

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<v Speaker 2>this situation. I've just come back from a press conference

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<v Speaker 2>with the Prime Minister and I asked him, why haven't

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<v Speaker 2>you announced that a suite of anti Semitism measures that

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<v Speaker 2>can be instituted or rolled out at a point in

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<v Speaker 2>the future. Why Are we having a conversation about gun

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<v Speaker 2>laws right now? It seems rather like a distraction and

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<v Speaker 2>he wasn't really to give a very satisfactory answer on

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<v Speaker 2>that control.

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<v Speaker 3>That's not true. The report is not accurate. The meeting

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<v Speaker 3>yesterday had front and center a commitment Prime Minister today

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<v Speaker 3>can be in a meeting a national cab following the

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<v Speaker 3>evil anti Semitic terrorist attack directed at members of the

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<v Speaker 3>Jewish community celebrating Hahne Gert Sydney's Blondo Beach. This is

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<v Speaker 3>talking document that was.

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<v Speaker 2>Present State prints to push you, and I can tell

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<v Speaker 2>you from my conversations with people overseas, people in Israel

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<v Speaker 2>and elsewhere, they have woken up this morning and texted

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<v Speaker 2>me saying, are we really having a conversation about gun

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<v Speaker 2>law reform? Twenty four hours after what happened to Bondopage.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that's really striking. And I do wonder

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<v Speaker 2>as well if the information that we obtained from the

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<v Speaker 2>press conference about the presence of an ISIS flag might

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<v Speaker 2>provide the Prime Minister with an escape hatch down a

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<v Speaker 2>separate path away from hardcore anti Semitism into just pure Judadism.

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<v Speaker 4>I also confirmed that the vehicle which is registered to

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<v Speaker 4>the younger male attained IEDs. But I also confirm that

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<v Speaker 4>it contained two homemade ISIS flags.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be a shame too, because this isn't just

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<v Speaker 2>a matter of puatism. It's he shouldn't be attempting to

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<v Speaker 2>separate what occurred, or he shouldn't try to delineate between

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<v Speaker 2>this being an ISIS motivated attack, or this being a

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<v Speaker 2>Hamas motivated attack or an Iranian motivated attack. It was

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<v Speaker 2>attack that specifically targeted Jewish people, and that's not within dispute.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the idea of antisemitism being racism, or being a

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<v Speaker 1>deliberate targeting of Jews, and any attack on Jews being

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<v Speaker 1>an act of anti Semitism, all those ideas are actually

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<v Speaker 1>not that clear in the minds of some people apparently,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're clear to me. Like the Hamas attack on

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<v Speaker 1>October seven, was that resistance or whether he oppressed people

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<v Speaker 1>sort of breaking out, No, it was an antisemitic terrorist

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<v Speaker 1>attack clearly because the victims were Jews overwhelmingly. There were,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, some non Jews who were caught up in

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<v Speaker 1>the chaos, including some Muslim security guards and people like that.

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<v Speaker 1>When those heartbroken emojis and prayer hands. I think what

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<v Speaker 1>you've identified in a piece for The Australian is the

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<v Speaker 1>hypocrisy of those people you were speaking about before. We're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about people like Abbi Chatfield, Mary Costikidas, Randa abdel Fhatar,

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<v Speaker 1>people who have spoken loud and clear about their dislike

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<v Speaker 1>of Israel, their belief that Zionism is evil and that

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<v Speaker 1>Zionism is somehow a genocidal project, as opposed to just

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<v Speaker 1>being what it actually is, which is the belief that

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish people deserve a homeland. So why do you think,

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<v Speaker 1>given their views are pretty clear, I would say they

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<v Speaker 1>were verging towards, if not actually anti Semitic. Why bother

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<v Speaker 1>with the prayer hands and the broken hearts and the

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<v Speaker 1>shock and horror.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great question, and that was again so surprising

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<v Speaker 2>and striking about it. That's why when I saw it,

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<v Speaker 2>I thought to myself, your hypocrites. You are the people

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<v Speaker 2>who've been building this for the past two years. And

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<v Speaker 2>I want to give these people that benefit of the doubt.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to imagine in my heart of hearts that

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<v Speaker 2>this is not the outcome they wanted. And I don't

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<v Speaker 2>think you would believe that either. I don't think most

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<v Speaker 2>ripe thinking people would assume that this was an outcome

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<v Speaker 2>that any one of these people wanted. These people are activists,

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<v Speaker 2>and they have a specific goal in their mind, and

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<v Speaker 2>they have a certain type of language and rhetoric that

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<v Speaker 2>they're using. I guess the issue is is that Jewish

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<v Speaker 2>leaders and Australians in general, you don't need to be

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<v Speaker 2>an ally of the Jewish community to say this. They've

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<v Speaker 2>been saying to these people, your language is hate field,

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<v Speaker 2>you are using specific terms like globalized, the Intifada, and

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<v Speaker 2>you were deliberately trying to cancel a certain group of

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<v Speaker 2>people from polite society, those people being Zionis. This use

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<v Speaker 2>of the word Zionism as a cover for Jews has

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<v Speaker 2>been one of the most insidious phrases to enter the

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<v Speaker 2>modern lexicon. I mean, the word Zionism has been around

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<v Speaker 2>for decades, but it's usage now in common parlance has

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<v Speaker 2>been such that I'm deeply cynical about the way that

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<v Speaker 2>most of these people use it.

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<v Speaker 4>To me.

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<v Speaker 2>When I hear zionis, so just hear jew.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as you've written, it's a fancy word for Jew.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm assign I believe that Israel has a right

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<v Speaker 1>to a homeland, just like I think that you are

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<v Speaker 1>a feminist although you're not a woman, because you believe

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<v Speaker 1>that women should be equal.

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<v Speaker 2>That would be their cover, wouldn't it. Yeah, Well, when

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<v Speaker 2>I refer to Zionist, I'm not specifically referring to Is.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm referring to anyone who happens to have a belief

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<v Speaker 2>system aligned with Zionism or who believes in Zionism. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's rubbish. I think they know what they're doing

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<v Speaker 2>when they use the term Zionism. They're talking about us.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up more of my conversation with Jonni Bishan, I

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<v Speaker 1>think there's something more cynical at the base of the

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<v Speaker 1>blooming in content about Zionism or zios. It's I think

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<v Speaker 1>a group of people who identified a vacuum in the

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<v Speaker 1>culture or an opportunity in the cult to get a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of likes and go viral. They were talking about

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<v Speaker 1>Black Lives Matter, then they were talking about trans rites,

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<v Speaker 1>then they started talking about October seven. Some people in

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of online commentary space I think on social media,

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<v Speaker 1>and Runner abdel Feta would be one, have been talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Palestine four years. This is clearly an issue that

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<v Speaker 1>she deeply believes in even though I disagree. Abby Chatfield,

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<v Speaker 1>on the other hand, was not a scholar of the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East before October seven, twenty twenty three. Clementine Ford,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, fits into the same basket. So isn't

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<v Speaker 1>there a very cynical exploitation of this crisis in the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East where a really rational opinion to have would

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<v Speaker 1>be this is horrible. I hate the fact that everybody's dying,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's way too complex for me to have an

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<v Speaker 1>opinion on.

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<v Speaker 2>With or to just say what happened on October seven

0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.160
<v Speaker 2>was horrible and I could never possibly support the actions

0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.680
<v Speaker 2>of hamas prescribe terrorist group. And when I hear about

0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.559
<v Speaker 2>the rapes that occurred at the Nova festival, when I

0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.800
<v Speaker 2>heard about the indiscriminate killings or the families that were

0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.040
<v Speaker 2>burned in their homes, yes, that is absolutely horrible. And

0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.680
<v Speaker 2>then it would be just as justifiable position to say

0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I also don't like war, and I don't like what

0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Israel's done in Gaza, and I don't like seeing a

0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.559
<v Speaker 2>really high civilian death count. That's something that no one

0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:11.520
<v Speaker 2>wants to see. Israelis don't want to see it either.

0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.760
<v Speaker 2>The part that's so perverse and deranged to me is

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.960
<v Speaker 2>that throughout this conflict, you and I would have encountered people,

0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.720
<v Speaker 2>either at rallies or doing our jobs, or people we

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:22.640
<v Speaker 2>meet at the pub or wherever, who seem to just

0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.920
<v Speaker 2>have a very galvanized view on this conflict. It's polarized.

0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.760
<v Speaker 2>That would probably be the better word, in which if

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.440
<v Speaker 2>you have a view about Israel's war in Gaza, you

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.720
<v Speaker 2>cannot possibly have a view about Kamas. I've found it

0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.640
<v Speaker 2>really hard to find a person who can say to me,

0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I really don't like Kamas. Horrible people wish they weren't

0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:42.800
<v Speaker 2>involved in anything to do with the administration of Gaza,

0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:44.480
<v Speaker 2>wish they would just go away. I also don't like

0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:47.040
<v Speaker 2>what the Israeli government is doing in Gaza either. I

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.959
<v Speaker 2>just wish this war'ld end. I'm finding a very limited

0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.960
<v Speaker 2>number of people who occupy that middle space. Everything so polarized,

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 2>but people don't talk about what doesn't rate. And we're

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.080
<v Speaker 2>in the same business. We're in the entertainment business. We

0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 2>want to speak to our readers about what they want

0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:00.240
<v Speaker 2>to hear, and we want to also te them what

0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:01.000
<v Speaker 2>we think they should hear.

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I think the tone of that conversation too, has really

0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:10.080
<v Speaker 1>created a fear about news content or about coverage of

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.160
<v Speaker 1>this war among people who shouldn't be afraid of the news.

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm because I'm a parent exposed to a lot of

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.920
<v Speaker 1>communications directed at parents. Here's how you know, Five ways

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.480
<v Speaker 1>that you can talk to your kids about what happened

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.120
<v Speaker 1>at Bondi Beach. How about turning off news media for

0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.720
<v Speaker 1>a couple of days, keep your kids close, and change

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:30.959
<v Speaker 1>the subject. Is the tone of communications I'm seeing and getting,

0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and I think a lot of that is very well meaning.

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, kids are scared. It is really scary. But

0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:40.680
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that after the attack on Pearl Harbor

0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.280
<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen forties that parents in America or Australia

0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.920
<v Speaker 1>turned their televisions off and told the kids not to watch.

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't think after JFK's assassination in the sixties or

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 1>the Vietnam War, that parents were telling their kids they

0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:56.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't need to worry about this, go and read a

0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 1>book like these kids are going to inherit the world

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.160
<v Speaker 1>that we've created for them. They need to know about

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.160
<v Speaker 1>what's going on. In my view, do you remember learning

0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:06.640
<v Speaker 1>about the news? Are engaging with the news as a

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:08.280
<v Speaker 1>kid and what that was like for you.

0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, I remember that, particularly in this country. I think

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.120
<v Speaker 2>we've been extremely lucky. We're not exposed to weekly terrorist

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.720
<v Speaker 2>attacks of the kind that I know are occurring in

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 2>other parts of the world, and particularly where I'm originally from,

0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 2>in Israel, And I know that in Israel, similar efforts

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.400
<v Speaker 2>to shelter and mollycoddle children after a terrorist attack don't

0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.920
<v Speaker 2>really exist. There's very much focus on resilience, in just

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.480
<v Speaker 2>getting out and living your life and thumbing your nose

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 2>at terrorists by getting on with life. I just think

0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>that is something that we're not used to in this country.

0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if that should be I despise the

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 2>term of the new normal. I don't think we're entering

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 2>a new normal. I think this is an anomalous, horrific

0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>event that occurred on Sunday. It'll be up to parents

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.680
<v Speaker 2>as to what they want to expose their children too.

0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 1>But there's a way to talk to kids about these

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.200
<v Speaker 1>kinds of things where you focus on the heroes and

0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.080
<v Speaker 1>the helpers. You talk about mister Akhmed, the tobacconists who

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 1>tackle one of the shooters to the ground. You you

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 1>talk about the Bond Eye detective who hid behind a

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.280
<v Speaker 1>tree and shots our crime dead. You talk about the

0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 1>off duty corps who rushed to Bond Eye, the uniformed officers,

0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the ambulance, the off duty doctors who found themselves compressing

0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 1>wounds in doing CPR. In any dramatic event, you can

0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>always find a ray of light to help kids get

0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 1>through it. But they have a right to know what's

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:20.000
<v Speaker 1>going on.

0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>I think, of course they do. But I think you're

0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 2>right too that we should be maximizing the stories of courage, bravery, loyalty,

0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 2>service duty. Those are things that are missing from all

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:30.480
<v Speaker 2>the Hollywood movies now. All the Hollywood movies we see

0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 2>now about depressing things about betrayal and anger and murder,

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 2>and we should be talking about more positive things, and

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 2>we should be talking about the positives arising out of this.

0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.680
<v Speaker 2>And the stories that are arising out of what occurred

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:42.400
<v Speaker 2>on Sunday are just utterly extraordinary, and they continue to

0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.800
<v Speaker 2>develop in a similar fashion. We talk about how to

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.160
<v Speaker 2>solve this issue moving forward. In terms of educating people

0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:51.440
<v Speaker 2>about anti Semitism. One of the things that surprises me,

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:55.240
<v Speaker 2>particularly about the left side of politics or the progressive left,

0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.440
<v Speaker 2>is that they have been so willing to embrace certain

0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 2>minority groups. I don't need to name any particular one,

0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:05.960
<v Speaker 2>but academic institutions, childcare centers, corporations have gone out of

0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:10.200
<v Speaker 2>their way to accommodate certain minorities in the spirit of

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 2>social justice and in the spirit of inclusion. Why is

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 2>it so hard to do that for a minority population

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.080
<v Speaker 2>like the Jews, which is subject to actual violence, not

0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:22.720
<v Speaker 2>just microaggressions. I don't understand why the progressive left has

0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:24.520
<v Speaker 2>been so willing and capable to do that for some

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.640
<v Speaker 2>groups but not for others. In fact, the progressive left

0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 2>seems to be decidedly against doing that for the Jews.

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how on earth did anti semitism, which is a

0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:36.880
<v Speaker 1>form of racism, become a progressive value. It's ridiculous. I

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.560
<v Speaker 1>think the answer can only be that there's in our society, sadly,

0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.160
<v Speaker 1>a latent fear and hatred of Jews, and if you

0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:46.960
<v Speaker 1>scratch the surface, it comes bubbling up.

0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm also somewhat convinced that there is a certain derangement

0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>that exists amongst these people in which they think that

0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 2>talking about Zionism and Zios and genocide and ethnic cleansing

0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>has no concert quins, and that they are entirely valid

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.440
<v Speaker 2>and justified in expressing themselves in that way. I think

0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:07.800
<v Speaker 2>what I'd like to see from our Prime Minister, from

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.720
<v Speaker 2>our leaders, is someone to just say you have to

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.280
<v Speaker 2>stop doing that. This isn't a freedom of speech issue.

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.560
<v Speaker 2>This is an issue of hate and incitement. This is

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.399
<v Speaker 2>not protest anymore. There is a difference, and this is

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>what I wrote about in the piece. There is a

0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 2>difference between protest and criticism of government handling of a

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.360
<v Speaker 2>war and incitement to violence. And for the people who

0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 2>still need to be convinced that their words have consequences,

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.159
<v Speaker 2>you just need to look at Bondo Beach. It's happening.

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:30.959
<v Speaker 2>This is real, and you don't just need to look

0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.159
<v Speaker 2>at Bonda Beach. The Jewish community saw this coming. We

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 2>saw it happening in Washington. Two people were murdered there,

0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and we saw it happen in Manchester. It was only

0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.000
<v Speaker 2>a matter of time before it came here. What we

0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:41.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't know was that it was going to be an

0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 2>order of magnitude bicker over here several perhaps.

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Janni Bijon, thank you very much.

0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.720
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Johnny Bichan is a senior journalist with The Australian. You

0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>can check out his reporting right now at the Australian

0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:57.840
<v Speaker 1>dot com dot a u