WEBVTT - Sharri | 22 May

0:00:07.040 --> 0:00:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Good Evening.

0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.400
<v Speaker 2>One of Channel nine's on air stars has revealed her

0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:15.560
<v Speaker 2>former boss, Darren Wick, allegedly sexually harassed her in public,

0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.720
<v Speaker 2>groping her and breathing heavily down her neck. In an

0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.439
<v Speaker 2>emotional interview, the presenter spoke about how she was so

0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.680
<v Speaker 2>distraught by the toxic culture under Wick that she raised

0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.760
<v Speaker 2>it with a board member, but nothing was done. The star,

0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.639
<v Speaker 2>who has agreed to tell her story but doesn't want

0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:39.000
<v Speaker 2>to be named, said many female colleagues were revolted by

0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Wick's behavior. She also claims that complaints about his alleged

0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:47.480
<v Speaker 2>conduct were dismissed by a senior female executive.

0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Who said that's just wiki.

0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:54.920
<v Speaker 2>The revelation from one of nine's recognizable faces exposes the

0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:59.040
<v Speaker 2>network to accusations that at the very highest levels it

0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.680
<v Speaker 2>covered up or ignored a toxic culture that saw other

0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:09.440
<v Speaker 2>female employees experience harassment by its news chief. Nine Chief

0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:14.080
<v Speaker 2>executive Mike Sneezeby addressed the crisis engulfing nine in an

0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.839
<v Speaker 2>all staff email today, where he said that inappropriate behavior

0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:22.200
<v Speaker 2>in the workplace wasn't tolerated and that complainants wouldn't be

0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:26.039
<v Speaker 2>victimized well. Darren Wick, the former director of News and

0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Current Affairs. Left the network in March, claiming he was

0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:34.479
<v Speaker 2>exhausted after four decades in the industry. Sky News has

0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:40.200
<v Speaker 2>this week exposed allegations of his historical inappropriate conduct towards women.

0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:45.760
<v Speaker 2>At nine and Today, a nine star took the courageous

0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:50.000
<v Speaker 2>step of publicly revealing what she has been subjected to

0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.120
<v Speaker 2>at the network. She said she was speaking to me

0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:57.120
<v Speaker 2>to help with her healing process, but also to encourage

0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.760
<v Speaker 2>change so that the next generation of women don't have

0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.279
<v Speaker 2>to endure the same treatment. And the star spoke about

0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.920
<v Speaker 2>the sexual harassment she allegedly experienced by Wick when he

0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.600
<v Speaker 2>was intoxicated. She said, on the dance floor at the

0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.600
<v Speaker 2>Gold Coast Logis after party, he was gropy. He had

0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:21.959
<v Speaker 2>his hands everywhere, breathing heavily in my ear. I had

0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to peel him off me. Any other man I might

0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:30.840
<v Speaker 2>have kicked or pushed, but he was my boss. And

0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:34.720
<v Speaker 2>she said Wick was often drunk and inappropriate. She said

0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.840
<v Speaker 2>it was commonplace for him to drink heavily it functions,

0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and he would often get in women's personal space.

0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.119
<v Speaker 1>We were revolted by him.

0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:48.760
<v Speaker 2>The presenter spoke about Nine's head of corporate affairs Victoria Buckan.

0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Buckan's role is Director of Communications and public Relations at nine,

0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:58.639
<v Speaker 2>where she leads both corporate affairs and publicity, so it's

0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.000
<v Speaker 2>not her role to manage or deal with HR issues,

0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:06.480
<v Speaker 2>but multiple employees I've spoken to this week felt that

0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:11.440
<v Speaker 2>her actions protected Wick, with whom she's good friends, and

0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.920
<v Speaker 2>she was also often involved in managing talent well. The

0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.840
<v Speaker 2>nine star told me today that Victoria Buckin's job involved

0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:24.880
<v Speaker 2>working with the talent, including young women. She would brush

0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:30.240
<v Speaker 2>aside any suggestion of inappropriate behavior, saying that's just wiki.

0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I think she could have stood up to the sexist attitudes,

0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.520
<v Speaker 2>but she was in cahoots with Darren Wick.

0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:37.880
<v Speaker 1>She said.

0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Planting stories was commonplace during contract negotiations as a way

0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:47.960
<v Speaker 2>of diminishing talent and bullying them into submission. Management would

0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:52.320
<v Speaker 2>then gaslight you, saying they had no idea how confidential

0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:57.360
<v Speaker 2>details that only a few were privy to were leaked.

0:03:58.240 --> 0:03:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.520
<v Speaker 2>It was at this point in our conversation today that

0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.160
<v Speaker 2>the nine presenter became more upset when she spoke about

0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.520
<v Speaker 2>how she tried to raise the toxic culture at the

0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:14.680
<v Speaker 2>highest level, but nothing happened. The presenter even raised with

0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>a board member how the culture was affecting her mental

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.640
<v Speaker 2>health and her reputation. And she told me I once

0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.600
<v Speaker 2>spoke in confidence to a board member expressing my desperation

0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.120
<v Speaker 2>that my own bosses were planting lies that were incredibly

0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.960
<v Speaker 2>damaging to my reputation and affecting my mental health.

0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:36.120
<v Speaker 1>There was no.

0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Assistance provided by the network to source the leaks, stamp

0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.880
<v Speaker 2>out the toxic behavior, or change the culture.

0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.320
<v Speaker 1>And after the board level, there's.

0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Nowhere to go. And I was fearful of losing my job.

0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:57.480
<v Speaker 2>Through tears and clearly emotional, the presenter said she felt

0:04:57.640 --> 0:04:59.480
<v Speaker 2>completely powerless.

0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Now this is extraordinary.

0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:06.479
<v Speaker 2>A high profile woman was brave enough to raise what

0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:10.200
<v Speaker 2>she described as a toxic culture at the highest levels

0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:11.520
<v Speaker 2>a director of the board.

0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:13.800
<v Speaker 1>No action was taken.

0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Now, the board of Channel nine is chaired by a

0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:22.560
<v Speaker 2>former treasurer, Peter Costello, and I contacted Costello, Victoria Bucken,

0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.440
<v Speaker 2>and Darren Wick today for comment.

0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.000
<v Speaker 1>They haven't responded.

0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.159
<v Speaker 2>This week, at Sky News, we've revealed that Wick was

0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.479
<v Speaker 2>hansy with nine employees at a Christmas party that he

0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:38.000
<v Speaker 2>engaged in inappropriate conduct at the twenty nineteen lo disafter party,

0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that nine engaged an external legal firm to investigate a

0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:46.440
<v Speaker 2>fresh complaint against him this year. The firm was unable

0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:49.719
<v Speaker 2>to substantiate it, but the board felt it best to

0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.440
<v Speaker 2>let Wick go given his past behavior, and yet he

0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.880
<v Speaker 2>was seen back in the nine newsroom in late April.

0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Nine Chief ex Secutive Mike Sneezeby sent an email to

0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.880
<v Speaker 2>staff today saying that many of you will have seen

0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.960
<v Speaker 2>external media over the last few days that draws attention

0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:14.239
<v Speaker 2>to our internal processes and policies regarding complaints about conduct.

0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:14.560
<v Speaker 1>In the workplace.

0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:17.200
<v Speaker 2>It is important for everyone at nine to know that

0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:21.320
<v Speaker 2>we don't tolerate inappropriate behavior in the workplace and want

0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.440
<v Speaker 2>to know if there is an appropriate behavior occurring so

0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.599
<v Speaker 2>that it can be addressed promptly.

0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Wik's departure from nine after twenty nine years was prompted

0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:37.120
<v Speaker 2>by the fresh complaint of inappropriate behavior by an employee

0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:41.360
<v Speaker 2>in the newsroom. But when Wick left the company, he

0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:44.920
<v Speaker 2>sound out a memo saying, after many long beach walks

0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:48.240
<v Speaker 2>and even longer conversations, I know in my heart that

0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.599
<v Speaker 2>this is the right time for me to step down

0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.720
<v Speaker 2>and leave night. I don't want to use the word

0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.080
<v Speaker 2>retiring because I don't know how to sit idle, but

0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to take a very long break from what

0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:03.840
<v Speaker 2>has been four decades of working as a journalist. He said,

0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm tired and need a rest. A NINEES director of

0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Television Michael Healy praised Wick's enormous impact, saying that his

0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.560
<v Speaker 2>recent work heading up the news division came at a

0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:23.320
<v Speaker 2>time of great transformation. Now I'm going to have more

0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.760
<v Speaker 2>on this story tomorrow night. We're going to keep investigating it,

0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.840
<v Speaker 2>including what the nine Board knew about any of these allegations.

0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Also the use of non disclosure agreements. More brave women

0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:36.640
<v Speaker 2>are coming forward every day.

0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to have more tomorrow night.

0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.200
<v Speaker 2>This is also the front page of the Daily Telegraph

0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.600
<v Speaker 2>when it comes through. When it lands, I'll show it

0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.880
<v Speaker 2>to you live on air. This story the front page

0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.200
<v Speaker 2>of the Daily Telegraph tomorrow now. Also ahead on the

0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:54.280
<v Speaker 2>program tonight, a report just handed down highlights the political

0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:56.240
<v Speaker 2>nature of Labour's funding.

0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:57.920
<v Speaker 1>For its mobile black Spot program.

0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Plus, terrorists glorify a Sydney bakery with her musk themed

0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.200
<v Speaker 2>birthday cakes for a child's birthday.

0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to have more on that in a moment.

0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.440
<v Speaker 2>And Peter Dutton says he's open to cutting ties with

0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the ICC after its decision to seek arrest warrants for

0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Israel's president Henry Ogas. Would join me live shortly, but

0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:21.960
<v Speaker 2>first let's bring in our panel tonight. Joining me former

0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and former Labor Senator

0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Graham Richardson.

0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to you both.

0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Look, let's start with this disturbing story in Sydney today.

0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:37.400
<v Speaker 2>Bakery is the center of a lot of media attention

0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.880
<v Speaker 2>for posting photographs of what appears to be a her

0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.959
<v Speaker 2>Musk themed birthday cake. My colleague Caroline Marcus broke this

0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:46.000
<v Speaker 2>story exclusively.

0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:46.600
<v Speaker 1>Have a look.

0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:52.160
<v Speaker 3>This cake was prepared by a Western Sydney bakery for a.

0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:52.960
<v Speaker 4>Four year old.

0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.720
<v Speaker 3>The child, dressed as a militant, appears to have had

0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.440
<v Speaker 3>a harms themed birthday party, complete with balloons, drinks and cupcakes.

0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Michael, this is a child's birthday party here in Australia.

0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Is this appropriate?

0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:16.200
<v Speaker 5>Well, now, of course it's not. It's disgusting and it's

0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.880
<v Speaker 5>the type of grooming of young people you'd expect to

0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.680
<v Speaker 5>see in Gaza. We know from the school books and

0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.400
<v Speaker 5>other publications that have come out of there that these

0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.680
<v Speaker 5>young kids are indoctrinated as soon as they get to

0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.440
<v Speaker 5>primary school and onwards into secondary school, so that this

0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.240
<v Speaker 5>has now come to Australia, this type of insidious grooming

0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.400
<v Speaker 5>is a shocking thing and it just shows you once

0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:43.040
<v Speaker 5>again what sort of far left fanaticism has crawled out

0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.840
<v Speaker 5>from under the rocks as a result of what's happened

0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.160
<v Speaker 5>in the Middle East. We see all these extremist views

0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:53.000
<v Speaker 5>at demonstrations, at universities and now even at kids' birthday party.

0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.200
<v Speaker 5>So this is a significant worry that this type of

0:09:56.240 --> 0:10:00.240
<v Speaker 5>mentality exists in Australia. It is extremely worrying, Shari and

0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:00.599
<v Speaker 5>rich O.

0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:04.960
<v Speaker 2>That's the concern that we're causing even more not us,

0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.960
<v Speaker 2>but that there will be even more division, even a

0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.480
<v Speaker 2>further erosion of social cohesion in the next generation. We

0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.400
<v Speaker 2>don't want the next generation to be bred on a

0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.000
<v Speaker 2>diet of anti Semitism.

0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.520
<v Speaker 6>No we don't. But if you give sucker and comfort

0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.199
<v Speaker 6>to harm us and those who support it, then that's

0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:28.120
<v Speaker 6>an inevitable result. And I really think we've already got

0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.880
<v Speaker 6>to take some very strong action. I'd be looking at

0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.640
<v Speaker 6>the status immigration status of some of these people. Any

0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.360
<v Speaker 6>way that we can get rid of them. We should

0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.240
<v Speaker 6>this is having these.

0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.400
<v Speaker 2>They're probably Australians. You can't kick out Australia.

0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.960
<v Speaker 6>No, you can't kick out Australians. I understand that. But

0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.320
<v Speaker 6>if you can, if they're not quite Australians yet, kick

0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.800
<v Speaker 6>them out. That's all I'm saying. If they are Australians,

0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.160
<v Speaker 6>then like, all you can do is make sure that

0:10:56.240 --> 0:11:02.360
<v Speaker 6>on shows like this we can out. Just make sure

0:11:02.400 --> 0:11:06.360
<v Speaker 6>that we get messages across that are decent, that are proper,

0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:12.360
<v Speaker 6>and just overrule them. That's all we can do.

0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.200
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately, I reckon the parents who bought their four year

0:11:16.240 --> 0:11:19.160
<v Speaker 2>old a birthday cake on not watching Sky News tonight.

0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:20.959
<v Speaker 2>Maybe the best we could do is give them all

0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 2>a free Sky News subscription so they can get a

0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:25.800
<v Speaker 2>bit of an education on anti Semitism.

0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:27.960
<v Speaker 6>That wouldn't be a bad idea.

0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Now there's been speculation around an early federal election. I

0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.480
<v Speaker 2>keep saying there's not going to be one, and today

0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.480
<v Speaker 2>the Prime Minister denied these rumors. In an interview with

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Joe Hildebrand in the Telegraph. He said, I think three

0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.880
<v Speaker 2>years is too short. What we're focused on is an elections.

0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:45.840
<v Speaker 2>What we're focused on is the need to provide that

0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.839
<v Speaker 2>cost of living relief. Our immediate task is to get

0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:53.600
<v Speaker 2>the job done and to get inflation down. Michael, he's

0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:56.480
<v Speaker 2>in black and white there saying that he is serving

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.360
<v Speaker 2>a full term. He's not going to go this year.

0:11:58.880 --> 0:11:59.560
<v Speaker 2>Do you believe him?

0:11:59.640 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 4>Yet?

0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:03.800
<v Speaker 5>He can always change his mind. He wouldn't be the

0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:06.320
<v Speaker 5>first to do that, Jarry. But no, I'm with you.

0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 5>I don't think there'll be in any election. There has

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.720
<v Speaker 5>to be an interest rate cut surely before he has

0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 5>an election. I mean, he can't go to the election

0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.040
<v Speaker 5>without a cut in rates. If there's a cut that shows,

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.960
<v Speaker 5>he can then say, look, we've got inflation under control. Finally,

0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.440
<v Speaker 5>things are getting better. Your best days are ahead of you.

0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.840
<v Speaker 5>But it's got to be before the next budget.

0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 3>Though.

0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.000
<v Speaker 5>He's not going to hand out another budget as sure

0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 5>as anything. There will not be a twenty twenty five

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.760
<v Speaker 5>budget before the election, will be after. Why because Charmers

0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.480
<v Speaker 5>are sort of well, Charmers is trying to make his

0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:37.320
<v Speaker 5>name on the basis, Hey, I'm a superstar, I've had

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 5>two surpluses before. He has to say to people. On

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:41.920
<v Speaker 5>the other hand, I'm a duffer. I've now got one

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.320
<v Speaker 5>hundred and twenty million dollars worth of deficits in the

0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.280
<v Speaker 5>next four budgets. So he doesn't want that message to resonate.

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:49.120
<v Speaker 5>So he's got to run off the back of his

0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:51.720
<v Speaker 5>two wins. So it's going to have to be before.

0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.400
<v Speaker 5>It's going to be March April next year.

0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 2>In my opinionship, I mean they're still the media economic

0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.240
<v Speaker 2>fiscal art. Look, that's usually in Decembar. There could be

0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 2>a mini budget, but my IFO means that those numbers

0:13:03.120 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, can't be hidden. Richo Albanizi told Joe Hilda

0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Brown today that he's not going to go to the

0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.959
<v Speaker 2>election until he's fixed the cost of living. But he

0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:13.160
<v Speaker 2>might never call an election.

0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:18.280
<v Speaker 6>Then, ye say, it might be a long time before

0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.360
<v Speaker 6>we see an election. I'll be a long time dead

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:26.120
<v Speaker 6>in that case. But look, I think Elbows, I think

0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.040
<v Speaker 6>you'll go a full term or close to it. I

0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.600
<v Speaker 6>don't think that he sees any great advantage in going early.

0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.720
<v Speaker 6>You always get some resentment if you if you try

0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 6>and do that, and everybody likes Elbow, So why would

0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 6>he want to try and alienate any part of the unity?

0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 6>Good fellow, He should just keep going to being Elbow.

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:47.960
<v Speaker 6>That's all he needs to do.

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Everyone likes Albo except for probably ninety percent of our viewers.

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, everyone in your everyone in your world likes Aalbo.

0:13:57.640 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 5>You've you've got to get out more. You got to

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 5>get it out more, Graham.

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you got to spend some time studio.

0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 2>And you know what, I do think he'll stay a

0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.280
<v Speaker 2>full term one because I've got it on good authority

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 2>from very senior sources. But secondly, for no other reason

0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.640
<v Speaker 2>then he wants to keep flying around in Toto one.

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.680
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't want to give up the perks of being

0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:19.800
<v Speaker 2>PM anytime soon.

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Now.

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Labor Today has seized on the csio's latest report. It

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 2>has painted a grim picture of how expensive nuclear would be.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 2>The report found that a large scale nuclear reactor would

0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.120
<v Speaker 2>cost up to seventeen billion, it'd take almost twenty years

0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 2>to build, and it would produce electricity that would cost

0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:43.040
<v Speaker 2>twice as much as renewables. Well, of course, Treasurer Jim

0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Chalmers spoke about this today.

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 7>Here is CSIRO has completely torpedoed this uncosted nuclear fantasy

0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 7>of Peter Dutton's. You know, nuclear costs more and it

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 7>takes longer, and Peter Dutton won't tell us where the

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 7>reactors are going to get. It makes absolutely no sense

0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.520
<v Speaker 7>for Australia to go down the nuclear road.

0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Michael.

0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Is this CSIRO requirt a problem for Peter Dutton?

0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.120
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's not helpful to him. But on the other hand, Shari,

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 5>the CSIRO haven't got the credibility they had twenty or

0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.320
<v Speaker 5>thirty years ago. They've been very politically active in the

0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 5>last fifteen or twenty years and it's always on the

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.360
<v Speaker 5>side of political activism. And we don't forget remember TENNISA

0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 5>years ago, that's fifteen years ago, they were predicting that

0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:37.440
<v Speaker 5>every citizen in the cities was going to run out

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 5>of water. They were saying the drought in Australia is permanent.

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 5>Murray Darling basin was collapsing. They've sort of been on

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 5>a global warming bent in the last ten or so years.

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 5>Is it a surprise they've come out against nuclear power.

0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 4>No.

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.920
<v Speaker 5>I think they're probably much better authorities that know a

0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.400
<v Speaker 5>lot more about nuclear power of the nuclear industry than

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 5>the CSIRO, who've done a report on it. So is

0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:04.920
<v Speaker 5>it helpful?

0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 5>But look, do people take the CSIRO as holy writ

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 5>that they might have when I was younger, they absolutely

0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.200
<v Speaker 5>do not, because they've been very much part of the

0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:18.680
<v Speaker 5>sort of screaming cultural left on these environmental issues over

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 5>more than a decade now, and they just don't have

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 5>the credibility they used to now, Richo.

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 2>I mean we've spoken about this previously and you've said

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.160
<v Speaker 2>you're open to nuclear you personally, you're open to nuclear

0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.000
<v Speaker 2>being part of our energy mix. But the polling shows

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that it's still pretty unpopular. You know, around thirty five

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:39.120
<v Speaker 2>percent of people support it and an equal number don't

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 2>support it. So the Coalition does have a big job

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>ahead of them to convince Australians that this is the

0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 2>right path.

0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.440
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, they do, and if they tried to do that,

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 6>they waste an enormous amount of time when they could

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.280
<v Speaker 6>be talking about some things that might actually help them

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:58.600
<v Speaker 6>get into government. And so I don't think Dutton's that stupid.

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.760
<v Speaker 6>I hope not from the Liberal Party's point of view,

0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 6>because if he is, then I think Albow is just

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.439
<v Speaker 6>coasting through the victory. Again.

0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Well he probably is anyway, according to you, because everyone

0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:11.120
<v Speaker 2>loves the bloke.

0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.879
<v Speaker 6>Disappoint he's a great fellow.

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Now, Farmer Labor Senator Nova Paris has resigned as co

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 2>chair of the Australian Republican Movement in a stance against

0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.680
<v Speaker 2>fellow CoA chair Craig Foster and his comments on Israel.

0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:29.719
<v Speaker 2>The Herald broke this story, but Nova was on with

0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.960
<v Speaker 2>Chris Keady earlier and here's what she had to say.

0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 8>I was quite disappointed with his commentary. And you know

0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.040
<v Speaker 8>that his reference to maslaua of innocent Palestinians. You know,

0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.920
<v Speaker 8>we should be upholding true and we should be upholding

0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 8>objective dialogue rather than smear tactics in inaccurate language around

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:51.000
<v Speaker 8>genocide and apartheid.

0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:56.879
<v Speaker 2>Michael, this is actually devastating. Nova Paris has a huge

0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.560
<v Speaker 2>contribution to make to Australian life. People might agree with

0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:03.159
<v Speaker 2>her on everything, you know, whether it's a republic or

0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.200
<v Speaker 2>the Voice referendum, but she shouldn't have to leave a

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 2>job because of this.

0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:09.840
<v Speaker 9>No.

0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 5>Well, now he's going, he's announced he's going, So I

0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.000
<v Speaker 5>hope that's an opportunity for Nova to come back and

0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.800
<v Speaker 5>take her position back. But look what an extraordinary interview

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.760
<v Speaker 5>she gave. I must say I followed her career, but

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.880
<v Speaker 5>not that closely. But what an outstanding performance by her

0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.679
<v Speaker 5>to resign on this point of principle. When this fellow foster,

0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 5>who's part of the hards that left Glitteraties into every

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.600
<v Speaker 5>sort of progressive cause, is trying to get FIFA to

0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.960
<v Speaker 5>kick Israel out because he's worried about human rights and

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.200
<v Speaker 5>genocide and these things. Well, you know, as people have

0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.680
<v Speaker 5>said to him, Craig, have you written to them saying

0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.720
<v Speaker 5>North Korea should be kicked out of FIFA or Cuba

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 5>or China or Russia. No, again, he's part of this

0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 5>group of people that sees Israel as the problem. Jews

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 5>are the problem everywhere. Say to Craig, have a good, long,

0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.879
<v Speaker 5>hard think about what you've been doing, my friend, because

0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.760
<v Speaker 5>what you've done is disgraceful and you are on the

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.920
<v Speaker 5>wrong side of history. You know, whatever has happened in Israel, mate,

0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:17.600
<v Speaker 5>it pales into insignificant since what's happened in China, where

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.880
<v Speaker 5>millions were killed under male North Korea et cetera, et cetera,

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.520
<v Speaker 5>et cetera. So he's picking on Israel for goodness sake, mate.

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.680
<v Speaker 5>You know, think again, what a disgraceful performance by you,

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.360
<v Speaker 5>and a big tick to Nova Paris.

0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.879
<v Speaker 2>Look, I don't even think you can compare Israel to

0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 2>any of those other countries.

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Israel is simply defending its.

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Citizens, defending itself after the most bar barrack terror attack

0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 2>we've seen in years.

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Correct, Richard Richo, what do you think?

0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:51.440
<v Speaker 2>I think Nova has been incredibly courageous in her defense

0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.560
<v Speaker 2>of the Jewish people, her fight against our di Semitism.

0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 2>She's actually received an enormous amount of hate and backlash

0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:00.199
<v Speaker 2>for it.

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:01.680
<v Speaker 1>Is standing so strong.

0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, she's a courageous woman and she's to be congratulated

0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.320
<v Speaker 6>for this. And I think Foster should hang his head

0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 6>in shame. I think it's a disgrace what he's done.

0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 6>And good on Nova, Peris. I think she's fabulous and

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.640
<v Speaker 6>I think Australia needs more people like that and less

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:20.200
<v Speaker 6>like Foster.

0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, indeed, all right, Michael Kroger, Graham Richardson, thank you

0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.280
<v Speaker 2>both for joining me tonight. Now still to come, Peter

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>Dutton is not ruling out cutting ties with the ICC

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:34.359
<v Speaker 2>after its decision to seek a rest warrance for Israel's

0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister. Henry Ogas, the esteemed economist and colomist, will

0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 2>join me next.

0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back.

0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm going to bring you now tomorrow's front page

0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:51.680
<v Speaker 2>of the Daily Telegraph. They've gone big on my story tonight,

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:55.480
<v Speaker 2>which I've written for The Telegraph as well on Darren Wick.

0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 2>They've got me too, scandal presenters Shock Logi's harassment claim

0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.120
<v Speaker 2>against former Network News boss Nine's wicked ways. So that's

0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:09.440
<v Speaker 2>the front page of the Daily Telegraph tomorrow, where Ben

0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:11.400
<v Speaker 2>English is the editor, and he's just said that through

0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.520
<v Speaker 2>to me. The full story is also up on our

0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Sky News website right now now. Peter Darten has today

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 2>said that he's open to cutting ties with the International

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Criminal Court, and this follows its shock decision to request

0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 2>arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyaho alongside her mus. It's drawing

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.919
<v Speaker 2>an equivalence between Israel and terrorists.

0:21:36.359 --> 0:21:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Now, I had a lot.

0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:39.480
<v Speaker 2>To say about this on our last night, and tonight

0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:42.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm joined by one of the world's best writers and

0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 2>thought leaders, economist Henry Ergas. Henry, I'm so delighted to

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.400
<v Speaker 2>have you join me tonight.

0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:49.760
<v Speaker 1>What is your.

0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.639
<v Speaker 2>Response to the ICC Chief prosecutor who claims that he

0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.960
<v Speaker 2>had reasonable grounds to believe that Netanyahoo and Yoav Gallant

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.440
<v Speaker 2>were criminally responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity?

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 4>Well, I was like many others. I was very surprised

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:20.719
<v Speaker 4>by his recommendation, and I wonder what the underlying elements

0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.080
<v Speaker 4>or cause of the ease. I think it raises any

0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:30.280
<v Speaker 4>number of issues. Amongst other things, there's a question about

0:22:30.320 --> 0:22:36.959
<v Speaker 4>whether the ICC has jurisdiction in respect of nat Yahoo

0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:42.000
<v Speaker 4>and the Defense Minister, given that Israel has a fiercely

0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:47.359
<v Speaker 4>independent and very effective judicial system, and there's an underlying

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:54.760
<v Speaker 4>principle that where allegations can be pursued through the national

0:22:55.359 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 4>judicial system, that is what should occur, rather than those

0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:05.320
<v Speaker 4>allegations being taken up in the ICC. And I think

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:11.280
<v Speaker 4>that's fundamental objection to this process, that what it implies

0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:17.880
<v Speaker 4>is that in any democracy, the ICC could take over

0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:23.480
<v Speaker 4>functions that really are best handled by its own judicial system,

0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:27.800
<v Speaker 4>and could do so in the cases of Nitta Yahoo

0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:32.520
<v Speaker 4>and the Defense Minister on ground being unlikely to meet

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:39.200
<v Speaker 4>the standards it has itself set for finding criminal liability.

0:23:40.240 --> 0:23:44.560
<v Speaker 2>But Henry, aside from the jurisdictional issues and the issues

0:23:44.560 --> 0:23:47.919
<v Speaker 2>of due process, you know, do you agree with the

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Wall Street Journal that said that this would be like

0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:54.879
<v Speaker 2>condemning Churchill and Roosevelt in World War Two for going

0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:57.199
<v Speaker 2>after the Nazis.

0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's certainly an important element of that. You just

0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:09.399
<v Speaker 4>need to read the things Churchill said, including when he said,

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 4>well we will basically bomb them to Smith areens. The

0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.440
<v Speaker 4>point about it really is that in a sense, war

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:23.920
<v Speaker 4>is war, and countries pursue wars. Countries like Israel Australia

0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:26.399
<v Speaker 4>for that matter of the US get involved in wars

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:31.199
<v Speaker 4>whether there are vital interests at stake. And if you

0:24:31.960 --> 0:24:34.240
<v Speaker 4>are involved in a war, the objective of the war

0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:37.840
<v Speaker 4>is to win, and you do what is reasonably necessary

0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.440
<v Speaker 4>to achieve that objective. That doesn't in and of itself

0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 4>justify war crimes. It obviously doesn't do that, but you

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 4>have to be very careful to ensure that you're being scrupulous.

0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and there's no evidence, of course that Israel has

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:02.760
<v Speaker 2>committed any crimes at all. In fact, all the evidence

0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.479
<v Speaker 2>points to it going far above and beyond what any

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>other country around the world has done to protect civilian life.

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Israel.

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:16.080
<v Speaker 2>Distributes leaflets warning people to evacuate before it moves into

0:25:16.119 --> 0:25:19.040
<v Speaker 2>an area. It has stayed on the phone to people

0:25:19.200 --> 0:25:22.320
<v Speaker 2>before they evacuate to make sure they've evacuated a building

0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.280
<v Speaker 2>before it strikes. You know, it goes above and beyond.

0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:30.320
<v Speaker 2>An analysis that others, much more across the figures than

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 2>I have have done, shows that actually the civilian death

0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:38.240
<v Speaker 2>toll proportionally is quite low in this war, and lower

0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 2>than others. But Henry, what do you think of the

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Australian Prime Minister's unwillingness to criticize the ICC while Joe

0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Biden and the UK and you know others around the

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:54.320
<v Speaker 2>world have said the decision is outrageous and incomprehensible.

0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:01.760
<v Speaker 4>Well, to my mind, the Prime Minister should take a

0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 4>stronger view, not merely because this decision raises so many

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:12.720
<v Speaker 4>questions of substance, but also because of the risks opposed

0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:19.399
<v Speaker 4>to Australia itself. If the ICC is allowed to essentially

0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:25.120
<v Speaker 4>intrude in domestic jurisdictions when it doesn't under its own

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:33.640
<v Speaker 4>charter have that right, then that will raise substantial problems

0:26:33.680 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 4>and risks, not really for the US but for Australia.

0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:43.680
<v Speaker 4>And so we need to be vigilant to maintain our sovereignty,

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:50.120
<v Speaker 4>including our sovereignty relative to the ICC. And that's why,

0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 4>on top of the all the other aspects of this decision,

0:26:55.600 --> 0:27:02.720
<v Speaker 4>why President Biden has been so strong his response, the

0:27:02.880 --> 0:27:07.879
<v Speaker 4>US isn't a number party to the ic C. But

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:11.800
<v Speaker 4>if the ICC pursues in this course, then there's no

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:18.680
<v Speaker 4>prospect whatsoever that Congress will ever accept the United States

0:27:19.880 --> 0:27:26.480
<v Speaker 4>becoming subject to ICC jurisdiction, and that in turn will

0:27:26.720 --> 0:27:31.239
<v Speaker 4>severely limit whatever the legitimate ambitions may be of an

0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:32.840
<v Speaker 4>entity such as the ICC.

0:27:33.520 --> 0:27:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, Henry, I guess thank you very much

0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:39.840
<v Speaker 2>for joining me this evening. Now let's move on to

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:43.080
<v Speaker 2>a story that we broke on this program last year

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 2>that then sparked an investigation into Labour's mobile phone black

0:27:47.760 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 2>spots scheme. Now, the program promised to fix mobile phone

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:56.359
<v Speaker 2>black spots in regional communities, and last February we reported

0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:00.560
<v Speaker 2>that Labour stood accused of pork barreling by picking the

0:28:00.640 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 2>locations that would get funding. Have a look, rather than

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:08.840
<v Speaker 2>allowing communities to apply based on their need for improved

0:28:08.960 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 2>coverage based on their black spots.

0:28:12.080 --> 0:28:14.680
<v Speaker 1>The government seems to have hand picked.

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:19.399
<v Speaker 2>The fifty four specific locations. Tonight we can reveal the

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:25.120
<v Speaker 2>vast majority of locations being funded are in labor held seats.

0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:30.280
<v Speaker 2>As it turns out, forty of the fifty four locations

0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:31.159
<v Speaker 2>are in labor.

0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Electorates and just eleven.

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 2>Locations are in coalition held seats. Now, our report sparked

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:43.000
<v Speaker 2>an investigation by the Order to General and today it

0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 2>was handed down and it found that seventy four percent

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 2>of all target locations selected by Minister Michelle Roland were

0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:55.840
<v Speaker 2>in labor electorates. The report finds that departmental officials conducted

0:28:55.880 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 2>themselves appropriately, but it did highlight the political composition of

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:01.960
<v Speaker 2>locations picked.

0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 1>By the minister.

0:29:02.840 --> 0:29:05.680
<v Speaker 2>And I'm Joe now to discuss this by Shadow Communications

0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Minister David Coleman.

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:09.160
<v Speaker 1>David, thanks for your time.

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Look of the fifty four target locations for forty four

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:20.480
<v Speaker 2>were in marginal seats, so this was clearly a political program.

0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:23.280
<v Speaker 10>Oh one hundred percent, Shari, I mean this is hypocrisy

0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:27.120
<v Speaker 10>written large. Like before the last election, now, Prime Minister

0:29:27.160 --> 0:29:30.840
<v Speaker 10>Alberanzi was out saying funding shouldn't be allocated based on

0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:33.840
<v Speaker 10>seats being marginal. I mean the Order the General has

0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 10>found today that more than eighty percent of the seats

0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:41.680
<v Speaker 10>for which funding was allocated by Minister Rowlands were marginal seats,

0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 10>and even worse, seventy four percent of them were labor seats.

0:29:46.000 --> 0:29:50.560
<v Speaker 10>So I mean the minister here has done absolutely the

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 10>wrong thing. She has allocated funding based on politics, absolutely

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:58.920
<v Speaker 10>the opposite of what the government said they would do,

0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:00.960
<v Speaker 10>and they need to be called out on it.

0:30:01.640 --> 0:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>There were no damning findings though, were they Even though

0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:08.960
<v Speaker 2>they were political locations, it wasn't in breach of any laws,

0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:18.680
<v Speaker 10>The reporters found that the departmental officials acted appropriately and

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.320
<v Speaker 10>they had to deal with the hand that they were dealt.

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 10>And what the report shows very clearly is that the

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 10>so called target locations were not chosen by the department

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:34.720
<v Speaker 10>but by the minister. So the minister basically handed over

0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:37.400
<v Speaker 10>a list and said, here are the target locations. It

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.880
<v Speaker 10>just so happens that three quarters of them are in

0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 10>labor seeds and then the departmental officials did their jobs

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:46.840
<v Speaker 10>in appropriate fashion. But the bottom line here is this

0:30:47.080 --> 0:30:51.520
<v Speaker 10>is a massive pork barreling program that the Labor government

0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:53.840
<v Speaker 10>has put in place, and the Order the General has

0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 10>said very clearly that it's important to look at the

0:30:57.040 --> 0:31:00.760
<v Speaker 10>political composition of funding and that's exactly what's happened here.

0:31:01.040 --> 0:31:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, the reason we kept highlighting this issue

0:31:03.800 --> 0:31:06.160
<v Speaker 2>is because it was a case of pork barreling and

0:31:06.400 --> 0:31:09.800
<v Speaker 2>other regional communities who did have black spots, and they

0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>can be life threatening if it's a flood zone or

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:15.040
<v Speaker 2>a bush fire zone and people need to be able

0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:18.720
<v Speaker 2>to contact emergency services and they can't get coverage. That's

0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:21.800
<v Speaker 2>why this is a serious issue. And yet you know,

0:31:21.840 --> 0:31:25.160
<v Speaker 2>there were pot finds that Labor was allocating funding based

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 2>on politics rather than where was desperately needing that funding.

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>But David, I want to put to you though, that

0:31:33.000 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>both sides of politics engage in pork barreling. So do

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:40.120
<v Speaker 2>you think that if you're in government, you know, can

0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:44.400
<v Speaker 2>you commit to not giving funding to broke programs based

0:31:44.440 --> 0:31:48.160
<v Speaker 2>on politics, based on where we'll be politically advantageous.

0:31:50.520 --> 0:31:53.760
<v Speaker 10>I think it's incredibly important, Shari that funding is allocated

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 10>on a fair basis, on the basis of need, not

0:31:56.760 --> 0:32:00.160
<v Speaker 10>on the basis of marginality of seeds. That's what the

0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:03.880
<v Speaker 10>said they did. They have done the exact opposite, and

0:32:04.000 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 10>in the report it specifically talks about the fact that

0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:10.880
<v Speaker 10>communities were going to the department and basically saying, hey,

0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:14.040
<v Speaker 10>why can't we apply? And the reason they couldn't apply

0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:17.960
<v Speaker 10>was because they weren't on the minister's handpicked list. So

0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 10>it's very important that funding is distributed in a fair

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:23.000
<v Speaker 10>way and that's not what's happened here.

0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:25.720
<v Speaker 2>All right, David Coleman, thank you very much for joining

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:29.160
<v Speaker 2>us tonight, and we'll approach Michelle Roland about this and

0:32:29.640 --> 0:32:31.240
<v Speaker 2>thank you and we'll see if she can come in

0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:34.600
<v Speaker 2>the program tomorrow evening. Now after the break, the rogue

0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Labor senator who went against Prime Minister to repeat a

0:32:38.440 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 2>hate chant now has joined anti Isral protesters at Melbourne University.

0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Plus Labour's detainee Debarcle snowballs yet again. My fiery political

0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:53.080
<v Speaker 2>panel will be on right here live next.

0:32:57.960 --> 0:32:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back.

0:32:58.720 --> 0:32:59.000
<v Speaker 6>Well.

0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Labour's detaining crisis continues. Revelations today in the Papers that

0:33:04.280 --> 0:33:07.480
<v Speaker 2>another former detainee has been released back into the community

0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:11.800
<v Speaker 2>on a twelvemonth suspended sentence. This is despite the forty

0:33:11.800 --> 0:33:15.760
<v Speaker 2>two year old man breaching his curfew conditions and failing.

0:33:15.400 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 1>To maintain is uncle monitor.

0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.960
<v Speaker 2>The ex detainee also reportedly has a long and colorful

0:33:21.960 --> 0:33:26.280
<v Speaker 2>criminal record, and he had his visa counseled on character

0:33:26.320 --> 0:33:29.920
<v Speaker 2>grounds back in twenty seventeen. Well, let's bring let's bring

0:33:29.960 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 2>in tonight's political panel. Liberal Senator Holly Hughes, who looks

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>like she's got the yellow memo tonight, and Labor MP

0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Daniel Malino.

0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.520
<v Speaker 1>We're matching, Holly. Good to see you both. I love

0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 1>it's a little bit twitty.

0:33:43.680 --> 0:33:48.000
<v Speaker 2>How are you, Daniel, Let's start with you. Look, this

0:33:48.080 --> 0:33:51.040
<v Speaker 2>seems to be getting worse for the government. Every week

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:54.120
<v Speaker 2>there's another scandal with one of these detainees.

0:33:57.160 --> 0:33:59.440
<v Speaker 9>Back to a point that I feel we've covered a

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:03.200
<v Speaker 9>few times before, which is that this was the result

0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:06.160
<v Speaker 9>of a High Court case which we opposed, and a

0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 9>lot of this has flowed from that, so it was

0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:11.720
<v Speaker 9>something which the government opposed. I also want to stress

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:14.680
<v Speaker 9>that this is a system which was set up based

0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:17.200
<v Speaker 9>upon a bill that we put forward, but which a

0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:19.520
<v Speaker 9>number of amendments were made to which we accepted from

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 9>the opposition. So it was basically a system that was

0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 9>set up with both major parties voting for it. We

0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:29.880
<v Speaker 9>basically accepted the amendments put forward by the opposition. So look,

0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:34.759
<v Speaker 9>it's a system which is operating according to the parameters

0:34:34.800 --> 0:34:37.720
<v Speaker 9>that both sides voted on. I think that's really important

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 9>context here.

0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, let's get Holly's response to that. I mean,

0:34:41.440 --> 0:34:43.319
<v Speaker 2>do you agree with that? Do you accept it.

0:34:43.360 --> 0:34:45.800
<v Speaker 1>Are you just as responsible for this crisis?

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 11>No, absolutely not, because when this all happened, Alberinezi was

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:55.760
<v Speaker 11>on one of his many jaunts overseas and Richard Miles

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:59.720
<v Speaker 11>was in fact the acting Prime Minister and he came

0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:02.840
<v Speaker 11>to who mister Dutton early one morning and said, please

0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:07.280
<v Speaker 11>help us. We need some legislation here. And mister Dutton

0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:11.920
<v Speaker 11>and our team put together a series of proposals, gave

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:15.759
<v Speaker 11>them to the government, who then had the legislation drafted.

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 11>This was, remember, supposed to be the toughest set of

0:35:18.200 --> 0:35:21.120
<v Speaker 11>reforms that had ever been put forward in this area

0:35:21.200 --> 0:35:24.320
<v Speaker 11>by Clara O'Neill. This was drafted by the Labor Party.

0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:26.680
<v Speaker 11>This was put up to the Parliament by the Labor Party.

0:35:26.680 --> 0:35:30.080
<v Speaker 11>This is their legislation, So the legislation is in play.

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:34.040
<v Speaker 11>What is interesting about what's happened today is clearly the

0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:38.480
<v Speaker 11>political will or the will coming from the Minister Andrew Giles,

0:35:38.480 --> 0:35:41.000
<v Speaker 11>the man who is in perpetual hiding. It would now

0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:46.440
<v Speaker 11>seem but the Commonwealth Prosecutor once again has made no

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:51.680
<v Speaker 11>claim for this person to be on remand they've supported

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:54.520
<v Speaker 11>bail applications. I mean, how many times do these people

0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:58.440
<v Speaker 11>need to breach either their curfew conditions or break the

0:35:58.560 --> 0:36:02.719
<v Speaker 11>law before this common Wealth government will enforce the legislation

0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.960
<v Speaker 11>that is there. These breaches were punishable by one year

0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:10.160
<v Speaker 11>in jail each. Yet this guy's been let out again

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:14.680
<v Speaker 11>with no objection from the Commonwealth prosecutor to we'll just

0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:15.319
<v Speaker 11>say how you.

0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Go next time.

0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:18.080
<v Speaker 11>Well, next time it might not just be a curfew

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 11>breach and that is squarely at the fate of this government.

0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's the issue, Daniel Malino. You know that

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:28.520
<v Speaker 2>the people are concerned about that the minister is taking

0:36:28.640 --> 0:36:32.040
<v Speaker 2>the advice in many cases of this community Safety Board

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.440
<v Speaker 2>that might not recommend an ankle bracelet or might not

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:39.319
<v Speaker 2>oppose bail. And you know, Anthony Alberinezi prides himself on

0:36:39.440 --> 0:36:42.760
<v Speaker 2>not losing any ministers to scandals. But on the other hand,

0:36:42.920 --> 0:36:46.400
<v Speaker 2>isn't he starting to look weak for not sacking Andrew

0:36:46.440 --> 0:36:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Giles or Clara O'Neil.

0:36:49.600 --> 0:36:53.320
<v Speaker 9>But look, I think fundamentally we have a system of government,

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:56.960
<v Speaker 9>without wanting to state the obvious, where we have a parliament,

0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:00.759
<v Speaker 9>an executive, and a legislature and a judiciary and some

0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:06.960
<v Speaker 9>functions we leave separate from the executive. Now, the system

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.120
<v Speaker 9>that was set up again according to this bill, was

0:37:09.160 --> 0:37:13.319
<v Speaker 9>that there be this tribunal and that the minister not

0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 9>sign off on the detail of every single decision.

0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Actually, the actually the board's role is to give him

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:24.720
<v Speaker 2>recommendations and it's up to him to take their advice

0:37:24.840 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 2>or not.

0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 9>But we also, I think have seen a number of

0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:32.719
<v Speaker 9>instances where prosecutors have made decisions which I think some

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:35.399
<v Speaker 9>in the media have questioned. And again I just think

0:37:35.400 --> 0:37:38.880
<v Speaker 9>we've got to be a bit careful about imagining that

0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:43.080
<v Speaker 9>ministers or politicians are going to second guess prosecutors at

0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:44.879
<v Speaker 9>every step of the way. I mean, I think we've

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:47.680
<v Speaker 9>got to figure out what system do we want and

0:37:47.719 --> 0:37:49.759
<v Speaker 9>if the opposition is now saying that they want a

0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:54.920
<v Speaker 9>totally different system, than happy to hear it. But this

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:57.400
<v Speaker 9>was again something which both sides voted on.

0:37:58.320 --> 0:37:59.239
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's move on.

0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:04.319
<v Speaker 2>Now we've seen that the Senator Fatima Payman, she was

0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:07.080
<v Speaker 2>the one who repeated that hate chant last week, even

0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:10.160
<v Speaker 2>though Anthony Albanezi said, you know, chancer from the river

0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>to the Sea have no place in our streets.

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 1>Where she has now appeared at.

0:38:13.719 --> 0:38:17.839
<v Speaker 2>The University of Melbourne where Auntie Israel protesters are occupying

0:38:18.040 --> 0:38:19.120
<v Speaker 2>one of the buildings.

0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Have a look. My conscience has been uneasy for far

0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:28.920
<v Speaker 1>too long and I must call this out for what

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:29.319
<v Speaker 1>it is.

0:38:30.520 --> 0:38:34.479
<v Speaker 8>This is a genocide from the river to the sea.

0:38:34.920 --> 0:38:37.280
<v Speaker 6>Palestine will be free.

0:38:38.000 --> 0:38:40.560
<v Speaker 2>And those were her comments before. And we're going to

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:43.080
<v Speaker 2>show you now a picture of her at the University

0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>of Melbourne today. There it is the os run it Holly.

0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Is it appropriate that she's turned up to protest it

0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:52.160
<v Speaker 2>this encampment?

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:55.680
<v Speaker 12>No, it's not at all.

0:38:55.719 --> 0:38:58.440
<v Speaker 11>She's a West Australian senator. I'd be very intrigued as

0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:01.800
<v Speaker 11>to what parliamentary business she thought she was doing in Victoria,

0:39:01.880 --> 0:39:07.680
<v Speaker 11>particularly at Melbourne University today attending a protest and what

0:39:07.920 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 11>is the camping that's been occurring in this university which

0:39:11.800 --> 0:39:15.200
<v Speaker 11>they've blocked the second encampment they tried to do today.

0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:19.000
<v Speaker 11>It is absolutely inappropriate. But again this is a failure

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.560
<v Speaker 11>of alber and easy to show any leadership. Remember the

0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:25.200
<v Speaker 11>Labor Party used to be pretty strong and abiding by

0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:29.080
<v Speaker 11>caucus rules. Well, Fatima Payment is now pushing those out

0:39:29.160 --> 0:39:33.400
<v Speaker 11>the window. She's going against what the Labor Party's policy is.

0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:36.440
<v Speaker 11>She's in complete breach of what their caucus has agreed

0:39:36.480 --> 0:39:40.279
<v Speaker 11>to when it comes to Israel and Palestine, and yet

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:43.360
<v Speaker 11>nothing has been done and she still sits on a

0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:45.040
<v Speaker 11>Foreign Affairs and Trade committee.

0:39:45.040 --> 0:39:46.040
<v Speaker 1>He has done nothing.

0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:49.120
<v Speaker 11>It is leak week leadership, and of course we know

0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:53.360
<v Speaker 11>this is driven by internal politics. For four Southwest Sydney seats.

0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:56.799
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, Daniel should she have turned up

0:39:56.840 --> 0:40:01.120
<v Speaker 2>to an encampment where we know students have anti Semitic

0:40:01.360 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 2>comments and slogans.

0:40:04.520 --> 0:40:06.920
<v Speaker 9>Well, can I just preface my answer by saying that

0:40:07.000 --> 0:40:11.960
<v Speaker 9>on the weekend I attended the Victorian State Labor Party conference.

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:15.759
<v Speaker 9>Attended through the front entrances I think anybody should have the.

0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:16.279
<v Speaker 7>Right to do.

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:20.000
<v Speaker 9>There was a lot of pushing and shoving and jostling.

0:40:20.239 --> 0:40:22.640
<v Speaker 9>There was a lot of over the top behavior, a

0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:26.560
<v Speaker 9>lot of swarming and screaming in my face. I think

0:40:26.560 --> 0:40:29.279
<v Speaker 9>when they realized I was a federal MP and look

0:40:29.440 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 9>for me, let's.

0:40:30.880 --> 0:40:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Just see a space view.

0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Is that there were pro Palestinian protesters there. That's what

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:36.520
<v Speaker 2>you're referring to, Yes.

0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, yeah, And look it led to me reflecting on

0:40:40.400 --> 0:40:44.399
<v Speaker 9>that balance between I think what's a very important part

0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:48.360
<v Speaker 9>of our democracy, which is the robust competition of ideas,

0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:51.719
<v Speaker 9>the right to protest. I think clearly what happened on

0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:54.920
<v Speaker 9>the weekend across the line and what I think, and

0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:57.839
<v Speaker 9>I think, look, you've talked about this Sharhi in other

0:40:57.920 --> 0:41:01.040
<v Speaker 9>contexts and other MPs as well, but I simply wanted

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:01.759
<v Speaker 9>to reflect that.

0:41:02.480 --> 0:41:04.160
<v Speaker 4>Look, for me, there.

0:41:04.080 --> 0:41:08.319
<v Speaker 9>Is a creeping extremism to some of the language and

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:11.520
<v Speaker 9>the demeanor and indeed at times the physicality of the

0:41:11.560 --> 0:41:14.000
<v Speaker 9>discussion and the way in which people are conducting themselves.

0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:17.399
<v Speaker 9>So look, what I think in general is we need

0:41:17.440 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 9>to have a broader discussion about the way in which

0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.520
<v Speaker 9>we as a community discussed this issue where there are

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:26.120
<v Speaker 9>highly varied, very strongly held views, but we as a democracy,

0:41:26.120 --> 0:41:28.560
<v Speaker 9>you need to be able to have a discussion about

0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:32.839
<v Speaker 9>those in a way that is peaceful and that is respectful,

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.080
<v Speaker 9>and that is as empathetic as possible. And so what

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:38.600
<v Speaker 9>I would say is, in general, look, there have been

0:41:38.640 --> 0:41:42.319
<v Speaker 9>a number of instances where I think things, Oh, I.

0:41:42.280 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Think we're just losing Daniel's audio there. Look, in my opinion,

0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:51.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, free speech is essential, sure, but there's no

0:41:51.480 --> 0:41:53.359
<v Speaker 2>place for hate speech and there's no.

0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Place for violence.

0:41:54.840 --> 0:41:57.280
<v Speaker 2>All Right, we'll leave it there with our political panel

0:41:57.320 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 2>tonight Holly Hughes and Daniel Melino.

0:42:00.120 --> 0:42:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Now after the.

0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:03.879
<v Speaker 2>Break, more from Donald Trump's historic hush money trial as

0:42:03.960 --> 0:42:08.240
<v Speaker 2>testimonies finally come to a close. The Australians Adam Crichton

0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:16.520
<v Speaker 2>will join me live from Washington after the break. All right,

0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:19.399
<v Speaker 2>now to the US, where Donald Trump's historic hush money

0:42:19.440 --> 0:42:23.120
<v Speaker 2>trial is finally nearing its end and his defense team

0:42:23.360 --> 0:42:26.919
<v Speaker 2>rested their case today. Many in the media were disappointed

0:42:26.960 --> 0:42:31.120
<v Speaker 2>when the former president chose not to testify and this

0:42:31.239 --> 0:42:35.360
<v Speaker 2>brought testimonies to a close. But Donald Trump Junior did

0:42:35.400 --> 0:42:37.720
<v Speaker 2>have this to say outside of court.

0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:43.280
<v Speaker 12>What's going on here is an absolute force and anyone

0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:47.600
<v Speaker 12>in America should be embarrassed at the absolute miscarriage of

0:42:47.920 --> 0:42:50.840
<v Speaker 12>justice that we're seeing here. The star witness in this

0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:54.920
<v Speaker 12>case is a what nine times convicted liar and now

0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:59.920
<v Speaker 12>an admitted thief. That is who they're hanging the entire case.

0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:03.560
<v Speaker 12>The other one happens to be a porn star. Not exactly,

0:43:04.320 --> 0:43:08.800
<v Speaker 12>not exactly the ultimate form of jurisprudence here.

0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:14.000
<v Speaker 2>And of course he's referring there to trump'sformer fixer and lawyer,

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.640
<v Speaker 2>Michael Cohen. With the Australians Washington Correspondent Adam Crichton joins me.

0:43:18.719 --> 0:43:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Now, Adam, great to suit.

0:43:20.040 --> 0:43:20.160
<v Speaker 13>You.

0:43:20.560 --> 0:43:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Look, the jury's now going to start.

0:43:22.120 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 2>Deliberations next week. What can we expect. How long do

0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:27.399
<v Speaker 2>you think it's going to take?

0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:30.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, look, that's right.

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:32.960
<v Speaker 13>The jury gets a six week break. Now they come

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:36.000
<v Speaker 13>back on Tuesday for the closing arguments, which the judge

0:43:36.000 --> 0:43:38.800
<v Speaker 13>thinks will take just one day. So therefore it's quite

0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:41.520
<v Speaker 13>conceivable that by the end of next week we have

0:43:41.640 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 13>the verdict from this jury. Look what's going to happen.

0:43:44.000 --> 0:43:46.680
<v Speaker 13>I mean, it's interesting most of the legal scholars on TV,

0:43:46.760 --> 0:43:50.600
<v Speaker 13>the experts, they don't think that the prosecution has reached

0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:54.080
<v Speaker 13>the level of beyond reasonable doubt. And these include many

0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:57.360
<v Speaker 13>kind of Democrat aligned experts. But you just can't predict

0:43:57.440 --> 0:44:00.439
<v Speaker 13>the jury. There's seven men, there's five women. Interesting, there's

0:44:00.480 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 13>two lawyers on the jury, so that can sometimes throw

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:07.040
<v Speaker 13>a curveball. But basically it just comes down to what

0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:09.520
<v Speaker 13>they think, whether they're going to believe Michael Cohen or

0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:12.839
<v Speaker 13>Donald Trump. That's really all it comes down to. And look,

0:44:12.880 --> 0:44:16.920
<v Speaker 13>this jury, remember, is drawn from a voting area that

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:20.160
<v Speaker 13>I think voted for ninety percent for Joe Biden in

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:23.280
<v Speaker 13>twenty so it's quite possible that there are very few

0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:25.000
<v Speaker 13>Trump supporters of the jury.

0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:29.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, either way, it's kind of impossible to find any

0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:31.800
<v Speaker 2>members of the jury who would not have an opinion

0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:34.880
<v Speaker 2>on Donald Trump. I mean, he's one individual that I

0:44:34.960 --> 0:44:38.600
<v Speaker 2>haven't met anyone who doesn't either hate him or love

0:44:38.680 --> 0:44:39.399
<v Speaker 2>him now.

0:44:39.440 --> 0:44:40.480
<v Speaker 1>I Meanwhile, the.

0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Trump campaign is reportedly threatening legal action against a fictionalized biopic,

0:44:46.280 --> 0:44:47.200
<v Speaker 2>The Apprentice.

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:49.600
<v Speaker 1>Tell me what this is about?

0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.680
<v Speaker 13>Yeah, So this film tracks the rise of Donald Trump

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:57.240
<v Speaker 13>in the nineteen seventies in the nineteen eighties in New York,

0:44:57.600 --> 0:45:00.560
<v Speaker 13>and it generally paints him as an absolutely horrible human being.

0:45:01.200 --> 0:45:04.960
<v Speaker 13>There are parts in there where he rapes his first wife, Ivana,

0:45:06.080 --> 0:45:08.520
<v Speaker 13>and apparently the scene is quite shocking. There were gaps

0:45:08.560 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 13>apparently at the carn Film Festival when it was played. Interestingly,

0:45:12.160 --> 0:45:14.840
<v Speaker 13>there's no distributor yet for this film, so that probably

0:45:14.880 --> 0:45:18.160
<v Speaker 13>suggests that it's really more an exercising TDS or Trump

0:45:18.200 --> 0:45:21.200
<v Speaker 13>derangement syndrome. I would say for the producers and the directors,

0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:25.120
<v Speaker 13>I mean, it's probably not going to even hurt Donald Trump.

0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:27.640
<v Speaker 13>I mean, to some extent, we've seen his rise. I mean,

0:45:27.680 --> 0:45:30.000
<v Speaker 13>he generally benefits from these sort of attacks from the

0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:32.320
<v Speaker 13>so called elites. So I don't think it's going to

0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:33.719
<v Speaker 13>hurt him. I don't think he's going to win or

0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:35.880
<v Speaker 13>lose any votes at the carn Film Festival.

0:45:36.520 --> 0:45:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Well apparently at the Cairn Film Festival. I mean the

0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:41.959
<v Speaker 2>film was apparently well received and it was even given

0:45:41.960 --> 0:45:42.880
<v Speaker 2>a standing ovation.

0:45:43.000 --> 0:45:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Have look, so.

0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:57.319
<v Speaker 2>That's what it takes to win awards, Adam, you know,

0:45:57.480 --> 0:46:00.439
<v Speaker 2>produce a film about Trump raping someone, no, his first

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.080
<v Speaker 2>wife as it turns out. Now I want to ask

0:46:03.120 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 2>you about Julian Assigns. This is quite an amazing development.

0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Yet again, he's won the right to appeal his extradition

0:46:09.640 --> 0:46:12.600
<v Speaker 2>to the US. This comes after the High Court judges

0:46:12.680 --> 0:46:16.480
<v Speaker 2>ruled that he could be prejudiced there under the Constitution's

0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:19.239
<v Speaker 2>First Amendment because is Australian.

0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:21.680
<v Speaker 1>Explain this for us.

0:46:21.920 --> 0:46:25.120
<v Speaker 2>Why would the fact that he's Australian mean that he

0:46:25.200 --> 0:46:29.440
<v Speaker 2>could appeal his extradition to the US, where he'd surely

0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:32.200
<v Speaker 2>end up in prison And he says he fears for

0:46:32.239 --> 0:46:34.160
<v Speaker 2>his life if he were to end up in prison.

0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:39.239
<v Speaker 13>Well, basically, there's a principle in American jurisprudence that if

0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:41.960
<v Speaker 13>you're not a US citizens you're not necessarily given the

0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:44.400
<v Speaker 13>protections of the Bill of Rights, so free speech in

0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 13>this case, and obviously that's a huge part of the

0:46:46.600 --> 0:46:49.879
<v Speaker 13>charges against Jewan Massage and his lawyers in the UK.

0:46:50.120 --> 0:46:52.880
<v Speaker 13>They wanted the US government to provide guarantees to the

0:46:52.880 --> 0:46:57.000
<v Speaker 13>British government that he would have First Amendment rights, free

0:46:57.040 --> 0:47:01.600
<v Speaker 13>speech rights. But my understanding is the reissue swerrences were

0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:04.000
<v Speaker 13>not strong enough for the court in the UK, and

0:47:04.040 --> 0:47:06.320
<v Speaker 13>so they're going to allow him to appeal the whole extradition,

0:47:06.560 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 13>which of course could take many many more months and weeks.

0:47:08.920 --> 0:47:10.680
<v Speaker 13>This has already been so drawn out. I mean, you

0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:12.520
<v Speaker 13>have to feel sorry. At least I feel sorry for

0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:16.200
<v Speaker 13>him on one level. I mean, it just takes so

0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:19.640
<v Speaker 13>long for the judicial system to work.

0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:21.800
<v Speaker 4>You know, what are his prospects.

0:47:21.800 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 13>I mean, generally the British judges have been extremely bad

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.600
<v Speaker 13>for assumed. They generally side all the time with the

0:47:27.680 --> 0:47:30.640
<v Speaker 13>US government. So I mean, I don't think his prospects

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.880
<v Speaker 13>are necessarily great. Just because there's an appeal, we have

0:47:33.920 --> 0:47:34.480
<v Speaker 13>to wait and see.

0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:38.359
<v Speaker 2>All right, Look, just finally, before you go, Adam, you've

0:47:38.400 --> 0:47:41.759
<v Speaker 2>written your column for The Australian tomorrow on the who

0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>pandemic Treaty. This is starting to gain traction, but in

0:47:46.960 --> 0:47:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Australia we don't really know what it's about.

0:47:50.080 --> 0:47:52.279
<v Speaker 1>Are we going to sign up to it? Explain this?

0:47:54.920 --> 0:47:57.400
<v Speaker 13>Yeah, look, I mean it's extraordinary how little media attention

0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:00.560
<v Speaker 13>this gets. I mean it's a pretty significant change. You know,

0:48:00.640 --> 0:48:03.640
<v Speaker 13>there'll be no changes to the World Health Organization's regulation

0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:07.480
<v Speaker 13>since two thousand and five. These are binding agreements between

0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:10.120
<v Speaker 13>nations on how to deal with pandemics and basically there's

0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:12.080
<v Speaker 13>a treaty that's going to be voted upon next week

0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:16.640
<v Speaker 13>in Geneva, which will significantly increase the parent influence of.

0:48:16.600 --> 0:48:17.680
<v Speaker 4>The World Health Organization.

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:19.440
<v Speaker 13>Now, you know, my view is it did a terrible

0:48:19.520 --> 0:48:21.400
<v Speaker 13>job during the pandemic. We don't need to give it

0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:26.000
<v Speaker 13>any more power. A little scrutiny of these changes.

0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean exactly.

0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:30.920
<v Speaker 2>The WHL told everyone to continue travel. That opposed the

0:48:30.920 --> 0:48:34.520
<v Speaker 2>travel bands said the virus wasn't infectious COVID, there was

0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:37.680
<v Speaker 2>no human anyway. Adam Crichton, thank you for joining us. Now,

0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:40.120
<v Speaker 2>if you missed my exclusive on Channel nine at the

0:48:40.160 --> 0:48:43.080
<v Speaker 2>start of the program, head to the Sky News website.

0:48:43.120 --> 0:48:45.879
<v Speaker 2>We'll have more on the show tomorrow night. But right

0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:50.560
<v Speaker 2>now here's pon Murray. I'll see you tomorrow at eight