Speaker 1: Good Evening.
Speaker 2: One of Channel nine's on air stars has revealed her
Speaker 2: former boss, Darren Wick, allegedly sexually harassed her in public,
Speaker 2: groping her and breathing heavily down her neck. In an
Speaker 2: emotional interview, the presenter spoke about how she was so
Speaker 2: distraught by the toxic culture under Wick that she raised
Speaker 2: it with a board member, but nothing was done. The star,
Speaker 2: who has agreed to tell her story but doesn't want
Speaker 2: to be named, said many female colleagues were revolted by
Speaker 2: Wick's behavior. She also claims that complaints about his alleged
Speaker 2: conduct were dismissed by a senior female executive.
Speaker 1: Who said that's just wiki.
Speaker 2: The revelation from one of nine's recognizable faces exposes the
Speaker 2: network to accusations that at the very highest levels it
Speaker 2: covered up or ignored a toxic culture that saw other
Speaker 2: female employees experience harassment by its news chief. Nine Chief
Speaker 2: executive Mike Sneezeby addressed the crisis engulfing nine in an
Speaker 2: all staff email today, where he said that inappropriate behavior
Speaker 2: in the workplace wasn't tolerated and that complainants wouldn't be
Speaker 2: victimized well. Darren Wick, the former director of News and
Speaker 2: Current Affairs. Left the network in March, claiming he was
Speaker 2: exhausted after four decades in the industry. Sky News has
Speaker 2: this week exposed allegations of his historical inappropriate conduct towards women.
Speaker 2: At nine and Today, a nine star took the courageous
Speaker 2: step of publicly revealing what she has been subjected to
Speaker 2: at the network. She said she was speaking to me
Speaker 2: to help with her healing process, but also to encourage
Speaker 2: change so that the next generation of women don't have
Speaker 2: to endure the same treatment. And the star spoke about
Speaker 2: the sexual harassment she allegedly experienced by Wick when he
Speaker 2: was intoxicated. She said, on the dance floor at the
Speaker 2: Gold Coast Logis after party, he was gropy. He had
Speaker 2: his hands everywhere, breathing heavily in my ear. I had
Speaker 2: to peel him off me. Any other man I might
Speaker 2: have kicked or pushed, but he was my boss. And
Speaker 2: she said Wick was often drunk and inappropriate. She said
Speaker 2: it was commonplace for him to drink heavily it functions,
Speaker 2: and he would often get in women's personal space.
Speaker 1: We were revolted by him.
Speaker 2: The presenter spoke about Nine's head of corporate affairs Victoria Buckan.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Buckan's role is Director of Communications and public Relations at nine,
Speaker 2: where she leads both corporate affairs and publicity, so it's
Speaker 2: not her role to manage or deal with HR issues,
Speaker 2: but multiple employees I've spoken to this week felt that
Speaker 2: her actions protected Wick, with whom she's good friends, and
Speaker 2: she was also often involved in managing talent well. The
Speaker 2: nine star told me today that Victoria Buckin's job involved
Speaker 2: working with the talent, including young women. She would brush
Speaker 2: aside any suggestion of inappropriate behavior, saying that's just wiki.
Speaker 2: I think she could have stood up to the sexist attitudes,
Speaker 2: but she was in cahoots with Darren Wick.
Speaker 1: She said.
Speaker 2: Planting stories was commonplace during contract negotiations as a way
Speaker 2: of diminishing talent and bullying them into submission. Management would
Speaker 2: then gaslight you, saying they had no idea how confidential
Speaker 2: details that only a few were privy to were leaked.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: It was at this point in our conversation today that
Speaker 2: the nine presenter became more upset when she spoke about
Speaker 2: how she tried to raise the toxic culture at the
Speaker 2: highest level, but nothing happened. The presenter even raised with
Speaker 2: a board member how the culture was affecting her mental
Speaker 2: health and her reputation. And she told me I once
Speaker 2: spoke in confidence to a board member expressing my desperation
Speaker 2: that my own bosses were planting lies that were incredibly
Speaker 2: damaging to my reputation and affecting my mental health.
Speaker 1: There was no.
Speaker 2: Assistance provided by the network to source the leaks, stamp
Speaker 2: out the toxic behavior, or change the culture.
Speaker 1: And after the board level, there's.
Speaker 2: Nowhere to go. And I was fearful of losing my job.
Speaker 2: Through tears and clearly emotional, the presenter said she felt
Speaker 2: completely powerless.
Speaker 1: Now this is extraordinary.
Speaker 2: A high profile woman was brave enough to raise what
Speaker 2: she described as a toxic culture at the highest levels
Speaker 2: a director of the board.
Speaker 1: No action was taken.
Speaker 2: Now, the board of Channel nine is chaired by a
Speaker 2: former treasurer, Peter Costello, and I contacted Costello, Victoria Bucken,
Speaker 2: and Darren Wick today for comment.
Speaker 1: They haven't responded.
Speaker 2: This week, at Sky News, we've revealed that Wick was
Speaker 2: hansy with nine employees at a Christmas party that he
Speaker 2: engaged in inappropriate conduct at the twenty nineteen lo disafter party,
Speaker 2: that nine engaged an external legal firm to investigate a
Speaker 2: fresh complaint against him this year. The firm was unable
Speaker 2: to substantiate it, but the board felt it best to
Speaker 2: let Wick go given his past behavior, and yet he
Speaker 2: was seen back in the nine newsroom in late April.
Speaker 2: Nine Chief ex Secutive Mike Sneezeby sent an email to
Speaker 2: staff today saying that many of you will have seen
Speaker 2: external media over the last few days that draws attention
Speaker 2: to our internal processes and policies regarding complaints about conduct.
Speaker 1: In the workplace.
Speaker 2: It is important for everyone at nine to know that
Speaker 2: we don't tolerate inappropriate behavior in the workplace and want
Speaker 2: to know if there is an appropriate behavior occurring so
Speaker 2: that it can be addressed promptly.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Wik's departure from nine after twenty nine years was prompted
Speaker 2: by the fresh complaint of inappropriate behavior by an employee
Speaker 2: in the newsroom. But when Wick left the company, he
Speaker 2: sound out a memo saying, after many long beach walks
Speaker 2: and even longer conversations, I know in my heart that
Speaker 2: this is the right time for me to step down
Speaker 2: and leave night. I don't want to use the word
Speaker 2: retiring because I don't know how to sit idle, but
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a very long break from what
Speaker 2: has been four decades of working as a journalist. He said,
Speaker 2: I'm tired and need a rest. A NINEES director of
Speaker 2: Television Michael Healy praised Wick's enormous impact, saying that his
Speaker 2: recent work heading up the news division came at a
Speaker 2: time of great transformation. Now I'm going to have more
Speaker 2: on this story tomorrow night. We're going to keep investigating it,
Speaker 2: including what the nine Board knew about any of these allegations.
Speaker 2: Also the use of non disclosure agreements. More brave women
Speaker 2: are coming forward every day.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have more tomorrow night.
Speaker 2: This is also the front page of the Daily Telegraph
Speaker 2: when it comes through. When it lands, I'll show it
Speaker 2: to you live on air. This story the front page
Speaker 2: of the Daily Telegraph tomorrow now. Also ahead on the
Speaker 2: program tonight, a report just handed down highlights the political
Speaker 2: nature of Labour's funding.
Speaker 1: For its mobile black Spot program.
Speaker 2: Plus, terrorists glorify a Sydney bakery with her musk themed
Speaker 2: birthday cakes for a child's birthday.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have more on that in a moment.
Speaker 2: And Peter Dutton says he's open to cutting ties with
Speaker 2: the ICC after its decision to seek arrest warrants for
Speaker 2: Israel's president Henry Ogas. Would join me live shortly, but
Speaker 2: first let's bring in our panel tonight. Joining me former
Speaker 2: Victorian Liberal Party president Michael Kroger and former Labor Senator
Speaker 2: Graham Richardson.
Speaker 1: Welcome to you both.
Speaker 2: Look, let's start with this disturbing story in Sydney today.
Speaker 2: Bakery is the center of a lot of media attention
Speaker 2: for posting photographs of what appears to be a her
Speaker 2: Musk themed birthday cake. My colleague Caroline Marcus broke this
Speaker 2: story exclusively.
Speaker 1: Have a look.
Speaker 3: This cake was prepared by a Western Sydney bakery for a.
Speaker 4: Four year old.
Speaker 3: The child, dressed as a militant, appears to have had
Speaker 3: a harms themed birthday party, complete with balloons, drinks and cupcakes.
Speaker 2: Michael, this is a child's birthday party here in Australia.
Speaker 1: Is this appropriate?
Speaker 5: Well, now, of course it's not. It's disgusting and it's
Speaker 5: the type of grooming of young people you'd expect to
Speaker 5: see in Gaza. We know from the school books and
Speaker 5: other publications that have come out of there that these
Speaker 5: young kids are indoctrinated as soon as they get to
Speaker 5: primary school and onwards into secondary school, so that this
Speaker 5: has now come to Australia, this type of insidious grooming
Speaker 5: is a shocking thing and it just shows you once
Speaker 5: again what sort of far left fanaticism has crawled out
Speaker 5: from under the rocks as a result of what's happened
Speaker 5: in the Middle East. We see all these extremist views
Speaker 5: at demonstrations, at universities and now even at kids' birthday party.
Speaker 5: So this is a significant worry that this type of
Speaker 5: mentality exists in Australia. It is extremely worrying, Shari and
Speaker 5: rich O.
Speaker 2: That's the concern that we're causing even more not us,
Speaker 2: but that there will be even more division, even a
Speaker 2: further erosion of social cohesion in the next generation. We
Speaker 2: don't want the next generation to be bred on a
Speaker 2: diet of anti Semitism.
Speaker 6: No we don't. But if you give sucker and comfort
Speaker 6: to harm us and those who support it, then that's
Speaker 6: an inevitable result. And I really think we've already got
Speaker 6: to take some very strong action. I'd be looking at
Speaker 6: the status immigration status of some of these people. Any
Speaker 6: way that we can get rid of them. We should
Speaker 6: this is having these.
Speaker 2: They're probably Australians. You can't kick out Australia.
Speaker 6: No, you can't kick out Australians. I understand that. But
Speaker 6: if you can, if they're not quite Australians yet, kick
Speaker 6: them out. That's all I'm saying. If they are Australians,
Speaker 6: then like, all you can do is make sure that
Speaker 6: on shows like this we can out. Just make sure
Speaker 6: that we get messages across that are decent, that are proper,
Speaker 6: and just overrule them. That's all we can do.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I reckon the parents who bought their four year
Speaker 2: old a birthday cake on not watching Sky News tonight.
Speaker 2: Maybe the best we could do is give them all
Speaker 2: a free Sky News subscription so they can get a
Speaker 2: bit of an education on anti Semitism.
Speaker 6: That wouldn't be a bad idea.
Speaker 2: Now there's been speculation around an early federal election. I
Speaker 2: keep saying there's not going to be one, and today
Speaker 2: the Prime Minister denied these rumors. In an interview with
Speaker 2: Joe Hildebrand in the Telegraph. He said, I think three
Speaker 2: years is too short. What we're focused on is an elections.
Speaker 2: What we're focused on is the need to provide that
Speaker 2: cost of living relief. Our immediate task is to get
Speaker 2: the job done and to get inflation down. Michael, he's
Speaker 2: in black and white there saying that he is serving
Speaker 2: a full term. He's not going to go this year.
Speaker 2: Do you believe him?
Speaker 4: Yet?
Speaker 5: He can always change his mind. He wouldn't be the
Speaker 5: first to do that, Jarry. But no, I'm with you.
Speaker 5: I don't think there'll be in any election. There has
Speaker 5: to be an interest rate cut surely before he has
Speaker 5: an election. I mean, he can't go to the election
Speaker 5: without a cut in rates. If there's a cut that shows,
Speaker 5: he can then say, look, we've got inflation under control. Finally,
Speaker 5: things are getting better. Your best days are ahead of you.
Speaker 5: But it's got to be before the next budget.
Speaker 3: Though.
Speaker 5: He's not going to hand out another budget as sure
Speaker 5: as anything. There will not be a twenty twenty five
Speaker 5: budget before the election, will be after. Why because Charmers
Speaker 5: are sort of well, Charmers is trying to make his
Speaker 5: name on the basis, Hey, I'm a superstar, I've had
Speaker 5: two surpluses before. He has to say to people. On
Speaker 5: the other hand, I'm a duffer. I've now got one
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty million dollars worth of deficits in the
Speaker 5: next four budgets. So he doesn't want that message to resonate.
Speaker 5: So he's got to run off the back of his
Speaker 5: two wins. So it's going to have to be before.
Speaker 5: It's going to be March April next year.
Speaker 2: In my opinionship, I mean they're still the media economic
Speaker 2: fiscal art. Look, that's usually in Decembar. There could be
Speaker 2: a mini budget, but my IFO means that those numbers
Speaker 2: you know, can't be hidden. Richo Albanizi told Joe Hilda
Speaker 2: Brown today that he's not going to go to the
Speaker 2: election until he's fixed the cost of living. But he
Speaker 2: might never call an election.
Speaker 6: Then, ye say, it might be a long time before
Speaker 6: we see an election. I'll be a long time dead
Speaker 6: in that case. But look, I think Elbows, I think
Speaker 6: you'll go a full term or close to it. I
Speaker 6: don't think that he sees any great advantage in going early.
Speaker 6: You always get some resentment if you if you try
Speaker 6: and do that, and everybody likes Elbow, So why would
Speaker 6: he want to try and alienate any part of the unity?
Speaker 6: Good fellow, He should just keep going to being Elbow.
Speaker 6: That's all he needs to do.
Speaker 2: Everyone likes Albo except for probably ninety percent of our viewers.
Speaker 2: But yeah, everyone in your everyone in your world likes Aalbo.
Speaker 5: You've you've got to get out more. You got to
Speaker 5: get it out more, Graham.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to spend some time studio.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I do think he'll stay a
Speaker 2: full term one because I've got it on good authority
Speaker 2: from very senior sources. But secondly, for no other reason
Speaker 2: then he wants to keep flying around in Toto one.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to give up the perks of being
Speaker 2: PM anytime soon.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Labor Today has seized on the csio's latest report. It
Speaker 2: has painted a grim picture of how expensive nuclear would be.
Speaker 2: The report found that a large scale nuclear reactor would
Speaker 2: cost up to seventeen billion, it'd take almost twenty years
Speaker 2: to build, and it would produce electricity that would cost
Speaker 2: twice as much as renewables. Well, of course, Treasurer Jim
Speaker 2: Chalmers spoke about this today.
Speaker 7: Here is CSIRO has completely torpedoed this uncosted nuclear fantasy
Speaker 7: of Peter Dutton's. You know, nuclear costs more and it
Speaker 7: takes longer, and Peter Dutton won't tell us where the
Speaker 7: reactors are going to get. It makes absolutely no sense
Speaker 7: for Australia to go down the nuclear road.
Speaker 1: Michael.
Speaker 2: Is this CSIRO requirt a problem for Peter Dutton?
Speaker 5: Well, it's not helpful to him. But on the other hand, Shari,
Speaker 5: the CSIRO haven't got the credibility they had twenty or
Speaker 5: thirty years ago. They've been very politically active in the
Speaker 5: last fifteen or twenty years and it's always on the
Speaker 5: side of political activism. And we don't forget remember TENNISA
Speaker 5: years ago, that's fifteen years ago, they were predicting that
Speaker 5: every citizen in the cities was going to run out
Speaker 5: of water. They were saying the drought in Australia is permanent.
Speaker 5: Murray Darling basin was collapsing. They've sort of been on
Speaker 5: a global warming bent in the last ten or so years.
Speaker 5: Is it a surprise they've come out against nuclear power.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 5: I think they're probably much better authorities that know a
Speaker 5: lot more about nuclear power of the nuclear industry than
Speaker 5: the CSIRO, who've done a report on it. So is
Speaker 5: it helpful?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: But look, do people take the CSIRO as holy writ
Speaker 5: that they might have when I was younger, they absolutely
Speaker 5: do not, because they've been very much part of the
Speaker 5: sort of screaming cultural left on these environmental issues over
Speaker 5: more than a decade now, and they just don't have
Speaker 5: the credibility they used to now, Richo.
Speaker 2: I mean we've spoken about this previously and you've said
Speaker 2: you're open to nuclear you personally, you're open to nuclear
Speaker 2: being part of our energy mix. But the polling shows
Speaker 2: that it's still pretty unpopular. You know, around thirty five
Speaker 2: percent of people support it and an equal number don't
Speaker 2: support it. So the Coalition does have a big job
Speaker 2: ahead of them to convince Australians that this is the
Speaker 2: right path.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they do, and if they tried to do that,
Speaker 6: they waste an enormous amount of time when they could
Speaker 6: be talking about some things that might actually help them
Speaker 6: get into government. And so I don't think Dutton's that stupid.
Speaker 6: I hope not from the Liberal Party's point of view,
Speaker 6: because if he is, then I think Albow is just
Speaker 6: coasting through the victory. Again.
Speaker 2: Well he probably is anyway, according to you, because everyone
Speaker 2: loves the bloke.
Speaker 6: Disappoint he's a great fellow.
Speaker 2: Now, Farmer Labor Senator Nova Paris has resigned as co
Speaker 2: chair of the Australian Republican Movement in a stance against
Speaker 2: fellow CoA chair Craig Foster and his comments on Israel.
Speaker 2: The Herald broke this story, but Nova was on with
Speaker 2: Chris Keady earlier and here's what she had to say.
Speaker 8: I was quite disappointed with his commentary. And you know
Speaker 8: that his reference to maslaua of innocent Palestinians. You know,
Speaker 8: we should be upholding true and we should be upholding
Speaker 8: objective dialogue rather than smear tactics in inaccurate language around
Speaker 8: genocide and apartheid.
Speaker 2: Michael, this is actually devastating. Nova Paris has a huge
Speaker 2: contribution to make to Australian life. People might agree with
Speaker 2: her on everything, you know, whether it's a republic or
Speaker 2: the Voice referendum, but she shouldn't have to leave a
Speaker 2: job because of this.
Speaker 9: No.
Speaker 5: Well, now he's going, he's announced he's going, So I
Speaker 5: hope that's an opportunity for Nova to come back and
Speaker 5: take her position back. But look what an extraordinary interview
Speaker 5: she gave. I must say I followed her career, but
Speaker 5: not that closely. But what an outstanding performance by her
Speaker 5: to resign on this point of principle. When this fellow foster,
Speaker 5: who's part of the hards that left Glitteraties into every
Speaker 5: sort of progressive cause, is trying to get FIFA to
Speaker 5: kick Israel out because he's worried about human rights and
Speaker 5: genocide and these things. Well, you know, as people have
Speaker 5: said to him, Craig, have you written to them saying
Speaker 5: North Korea should be kicked out of FIFA or Cuba
Speaker 5: or China or Russia. No, again, he's part of this
Speaker 5: group of people that sees Israel as the problem. Jews
Speaker 5: are the problem everywhere. Say to Craig, have a good, long,
Speaker 5: hard think about what you've been doing, my friend, because
Speaker 5: what you've done is disgraceful and you are on the
Speaker 5: wrong side of history. You know, whatever has happened in Israel, mate,
Speaker 5: it pales into insignificant since what's happened in China, where
Speaker 5: millions were killed under male North Korea et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 5: et cetera. So he's picking on Israel for goodness sake, mate.
Speaker 5: You know, think again, what a disgraceful performance by you,
Speaker 5: and a big tick to Nova Paris.
Speaker 2: Look, I don't even think you can compare Israel to
Speaker 2: any of those other countries.
Speaker 1: I mean, Israel is simply defending its.
Speaker 2: Citizens, defending itself after the most bar barrack terror attack
Speaker 2: we've seen in years.
Speaker 1: Correct, Richard Richo, what do you think?
Speaker 2: I think Nova has been incredibly courageous in her defense
Speaker 2: of the Jewish people, her fight against our di Semitism.
Speaker 2: She's actually received an enormous amount of hate and backlash
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 1: Is standing so strong.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she's a courageous woman and she's to be congratulated
Speaker 6: for this. And I think Foster should hang his head
Speaker 6: in shame. I think it's a disgrace what he's done.
Speaker 6: And good on Nova, Peris. I think she's fabulous and
Speaker 6: I think Australia needs more people like that and less
Speaker 6: like Foster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, all right, Michael Kroger, Graham Richardson, thank you
Speaker 2: both for joining me tonight. Now still to come, Peter
Speaker 2: Dutton is not ruling out cutting ties with the ICC
Speaker 2: after its decision to seek a rest warrance for Israel's
Speaker 2: Prime Minister. Henry Ogas, the esteemed economist and colomist, will
Speaker 2: join me next.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to bring you now tomorrow's front page
Speaker 2: of the Daily Telegraph. They've gone big on my story tonight,
Speaker 2: which I've written for The Telegraph as well on Darren Wick.
Speaker 2: They've got me too, scandal presenters Shock Logi's harassment claim
Speaker 2: against former Network News boss Nine's wicked ways. So that's
Speaker 2: the front page of the Daily Telegraph tomorrow, where Ben
Speaker 2: English is the editor, and he's just said that through
Speaker 2: to me. The full story is also up on our
Speaker 2: Sky News website right now now. Peter Darten has today
Speaker 2: said that he's open to cutting ties with the International
Speaker 2: Criminal Court, and this follows its shock decision to request
Speaker 2: arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyaho alongside her mus. It's drawing
Speaker 2: an equivalence between Israel and terrorists.
Speaker 1: Now, I had a lot.
Speaker 2: To say about this on our last night, and tonight
Speaker 2: I'm joined by one of the world's best writers and
Speaker 2: thought leaders, economist Henry Ergas. Henry, I'm so delighted to
Speaker 2: have you join me tonight.
Speaker 1: What is your.
Speaker 2: Response to the ICC Chief prosecutor who claims that he
Speaker 2: had reasonable grounds to believe that Netanyahoo and Yoav Gallant
Speaker 2: were criminally responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity?
Speaker 4: Well, I was like many others. I was very surprised
Speaker 4: by his recommendation, and I wonder what the underlying elements
Speaker 4: or cause of the ease. I think it raises any
Speaker 4: number of issues. Amongst other things, there's a question about
Speaker 4: whether the ICC has jurisdiction in respect of nat Yahoo
Speaker 4: and the Defense Minister, given that Israel has a fiercely
Speaker 4: independent and very effective judicial system, and there's an underlying
Speaker 4: principle that where allegations can be pursued through the national
Speaker 4: judicial system, that is what should occur, rather than those
Speaker 4: allegations being taken up in the ICC. And I think
Speaker 4: that's fundamental objection to this process, that what it implies
Speaker 4: is that in any democracy, the ICC could take over
Speaker 4: functions that really are best handled by its own judicial system,
Speaker 4: and could do so in the cases of Nitta Yahoo
Speaker 4: and the Defense Minister on ground being unlikely to meet
Speaker 4: the standards it has itself set for finding criminal liability.
Speaker 2: But Henry, aside from the jurisdictional issues and the issues
Speaker 2: of due process, you know, do you agree with the
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal that said that this would be like
Speaker 2: condemning Churchill and Roosevelt in World War Two for going
Speaker 2: after the Nazis.
Speaker 4: Well, it's certainly an important element of that. You just
Speaker 4: need to read the things Churchill said, including when he said,
Speaker 4: well we will basically bomb them to Smith areens. The
Speaker 4: point about it really is that in a sense, war
Speaker 4: is war, and countries pursue wars. Countries like Israel Australia
Speaker 4: for that matter of the US get involved in wars
Speaker 4: whether there are vital interests at stake. And if you
Speaker 4: are involved in a war, the objective of the war
Speaker 4: is to win, and you do what is reasonably necessary
Speaker 4: to achieve that objective. That doesn't in and of itself
Speaker 4: justify war crimes. It obviously doesn't do that, but you
Speaker 4: have to be very careful to ensure that you're being scrupulous.
Speaker 2: Yes, and there's no evidence, of course that Israel has
Speaker 2: committed any crimes at all. In fact, all the evidence
Speaker 2: points to it going far above and beyond what any
Speaker 2: other country around the world has done to protect civilian life.
Speaker 1: I mean, Israel.
Speaker 2: Distributes leaflets warning people to evacuate before it moves into
Speaker 2: an area. It has stayed on the phone to people
Speaker 2: before they evacuate to make sure they've evacuated a building
Speaker 2: before it strikes. You know, it goes above and beyond.
Speaker 2: An analysis that others, much more across the figures than
Speaker 2: I have have done, shows that actually the civilian death
Speaker 2: toll proportionally is quite low in this war, and lower
Speaker 2: than others. But Henry, what do you think of the
Speaker 2: Australian Prime Minister's unwillingness to criticize the ICC while Joe
Speaker 2: Biden and the UK and you know others around the
Speaker 2: world have said the decision is outrageous and incomprehensible.
Speaker 4: Well, to my mind, the Prime Minister should take a
Speaker 4: stronger view, not merely because this decision raises so many
Speaker 4: questions of substance, but also because of the risks opposed
Speaker 4: to Australia itself. If the ICC is allowed to essentially
Speaker 4: intrude in domestic jurisdictions when it doesn't under its own
Speaker 4: charter have that right, then that will raise substantial problems
Speaker 4: and risks, not really for the US but for Australia.
Speaker 4: And so we need to be vigilant to maintain our sovereignty,
Speaker 4: including our sovereignty relative to the ICC. And that's why,
Speaker 4: on top of the all the other aspects of this decision,
Speaker 4: why President Biden has been so strong his response, the
Speaker 4: US isn't a number party to the ic C. But
Speaker 4: if the ICC pursues in this course, then there's no
Speaker 4: prospect whatsoever that Congress will ever accept the United States
Speaker 4: becoming subject to ICC jurisdiction, and that in turn will
Speaker 4: severely limit whatever the legitimate ambitions may be of an
Speaker 4: entity such as the ICC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Henry, I guess thank you very much
Speaker 2: for joining me this evening. Now let's move on to
Speaker 2: a story that we broke on this program last year
Speaker 2: that then sparked an investigation into Labour's mobile phone black
Speaker 2: spots scheme. Now, the program promised to fix mobile phone
Speaker 2: black spots in regional communities, and last February we reported
Speaker 2: that Labour stood accused of pork barreling by picking the
Speaker 2: locations that would get funding. Have a look, rather than
Speaker 2: allowing communities to apply based on their need for improved
Speaker 2: coverage based on their black spots.
Speaker 1: The government seems to have hand picked.
Speaker 2: The fifty four specific locations. Tonight we can reveal the
Speaker 2: vast majority of locations being funded are in labor held seats.
Speaker 2: As it turns out, forty of the fifty four locations
Speaker 2: are in labor.
Speaker 1: Electorates and just eleven.
Speaker 2: Locations are in coalition held seats. Now, our report sparked
Speaker 2: an investigation by the Order to General and today it
Speaker 2: was handed down and it found that seventy four percent
Speaker 2: of all target locations selected by Minister Michelle Roland were
Speaker 2: in labor electorates. The report finds that departmental officials conducted
Speaker 2: themselves appropriately, but it did highlight the political composition of
Speaker 2: locations picked.
Speaker 1: By the minister.
Speaker 2: And I'm Joe now to discuss this by Shadow Communications
Speaker 2: Minister David Coleman.
Speaker 1: David, thanks for your time.
Speaker 2: Look of the fifty four target locations for forty four
Speaker 2: were in marginal seats, so this was clearly a political program.
Speaker 10: Oh one hundred percent, Shari, I mean this is hypocrisy
Speaker 10: written large. Like before the last election, now, Prime Minister
Speaker 10: Alberanzi was out saying funding shouldn't be allocated based on
Speaker 10: seats being marginal. I mean the Order the General has
Speaker 10: found today that more than eighty percent of the seats
Speaker 10: for which funding was allocated by Minister Rowlands were marginal seats,
Speaker 10: and even worse, seventy four percent of them were labor seats.
Speaker 10: So I mean the minister here has done absolutely the
Speaker 10: wrong thing. She has allocated funding based on politics, absolutely
Speaker 10: the opposite of what the government said they would do,
Speaker 10: and they need to be called out on it.
Speaker 2: There were no damning findings though, were they Even though
Speaker 2: they were political locations, it wasn't in breach of any laws,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 10: The reporters found that the departmental officials acted appropriately and
Speaker 10: they had to deal with the hand that they were dealt.
Speaker 10: And what the report shows very clearly is that the
Speaker 10: so called target locations were not chosen by the department
Speaker 10: but by the minister. So the minister basically handed over
Speaker 10: a list and said, here are the target locations. It
Speaker 10: just so happens that three quarters of them are in
Speaker 10: labor seeds and then the departmental officials did their jobs
Speaker 10: in appropriate fashion. But the bottom line here is this
Speaker 10: is a massive pork barreling program that the Labor government
Speaker 10: has put in place, and the Order the General has
Speaker 10: said very clearly that it's important to look at the
Speaker 10: political composition of funding and that's exactly what's happened here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the reason we kept highlighting this issue
Speaker 2: is because it was a case of pork barreling and
Speaker 2: other regional communities who did have black spots, and they
Speaker 2: can be life threatening if it's a flood zone or
Speaker 2: a bush fire zone and people need to be able
Speaker 2: to contact emergency services and they can't get coverage. That's
Speaker 2: why this is a serious issue. And yet you know,
Speaker 2: there were pot finds that Labor was allocating funding based
Speaker 2: on politics rather than where was desperately needing that funding.
Speaker 2: But David, I want to put to you though, that
Speaker 2: both sides of politics engage in pork barreling. So do
Speaker 2: you think that if you're in government, you know, can
Speaker 2: you commit to not giving funding to broke programs based
Speaker 2: on politics, based on where we'll be politically advantageous.
Speaker 10: I think it's incredibly important, Shari that funding is allocated
Speaker 10: on a fair basis, on the basis of need, not
Speaker 10: on the basis of marginality of seeds. That's what the
Speaker 10: said they did. They have done the exact opposite, and
Speaker 10: in the report it specifically talks about the fact that
Speaker 10: communities were going to the department and basically saying, hey,
Speaker 10: why can't we apply? And the reason they couldn't apply
Speaker 10: was because they weren't on the minister's handpicked list. So
Speaker 10: it's very important that funding is distributed in a fair
Speaker 10: way and that's not what's happened here.
Speaker 2: All right, David Coleman, thank you very much for joining
Speaker 2: us tonight, and we'll approach Michelle Roland about this and
Speaker 2: thank you and we'll see if she can come in
Speaker 2: the program tomorrow evening. Now after the break, the rogue
Speaker 2: Labor senator who went against Prime Minister to repeat a
Speaker 2: hate chant now has joined anti Isral protesters at Melbourne University.
Speaker 2: Plus Labour's detainee Debarcle snowballs yet again. My fiery political
Speaker 2: panel will be on right here live next.
Speaker 1: Welcome back.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: Labour's detaining crisis continues. Revelations today in the Papers that
Speaker 2: another former detainee has been released back into the community
Speaker 2: on a twelvemonth suspended sentence. This is despite the forty
Speaker 2: two year old man breaching his curfew conditions and failing.
Speaker 1: To maintain is uncle monitor.
Speaker 2: The ex detainee also reportedly has a long and colorful
Speaker 2: criminal record, and he had his visa counseled on character
Speaker 2: grounds back in twenty seventeen. Well, let's bring let's bring
Speaker 2: in tonight's political panel. Liberal Senator Holly Hughes, who looks
Speaker 2: like she's got the yellow memo tonight, and Labor MP
Speaker 2: Daniel Malino.
Speaker 1: We're matching, Holly. Good to see you both. I love
Speaker 1: it's a little bit twitty.
Speaker 2: How are you, Daniel, Let's start with you. Look, this
Speaker 2: seems to be getting worse for the government. Every week
Speaker 2: there's another scandal with one of these detainees.
Speaker 9: Back to a point that I feel we've covered a
Speaker 9: few times before, which is that this was the result
Speaker 9: of a High Court case which we opposed, and a
Speaker 9: lot of this has flowed from that, so it was
Speaker 9: something which the government opposed. I also want to stress
Speaker 9: that this is a system which was set up based
Speaker 9: upon a bill that we put forward, but which a
Speaker 9: number of amendments were made to which we accepted from
Speaker 9: the opposition. So it was basically a system that was
Speaker 9: set up with both major parties voting for it. We
Speaker 9: basically accepted the amendments put forward by the opposition. So look,
Speaker 9: it's a system which is operating according to the parameters
Speaker 9: that both sides voted on. I think that's really important
Speaker 9: context here.
Speaker 2: Well, well, let's get Holly's response to that. I mean,
Speaker 2: do you agree with that? Do you accept it.
Speaker 1: Are you just as responsible for this crisis?
Speaker 11: No, absolutely not, because when this all happened, Alberinezi was
Speaker 11: on one of his many jaunts overseas and Richard Miles
Speaker 11: was in fact the acting Prime Minister and he came
Speaker 11: to who mister Dutton early one morning and said, please
Speaker 11: help us. We need some legislation here. And mister Dutton
Speaker 11: and our team put together a series of proposals, gave
Speaker 11: them to the government, who then had the legislation drafted.
Speaker 11: This was, remember, supposed to be the toughest set of
Speaker 11: reforms that had ever been put forward in this area
Speaker 11: by Clara O'Neill. This was drafted by the Labor Party.
Speaker 11: This was put up to the Parliament by the Labor Party.
Speaker 11: This is their legislation, So the legislation is in play.
Speaker 11: What is interesting about what's happened today is clearly the
Speaker 11: political will or the will coming from the Minister Andrew Giles,
Speaker 11: the man who is in perpetual hiding. It would now
Speaker 11: seem but the Commonwealth Prosecutor once again has made no
Speaker 11: claim for this person to be on remand they've supported
Speaker 11: bail applications. I mean, how many times do these people
Speaker 11: need to breach either their curfew conditions or break the
Speaker 11: law before this common Wealth government will enforce the legislation
Speaker 11: that is there. These breaches were punishable by one year
Speaker 11: in jail each. Yet this guy's been let out again
Speaker 11: with no objection from the Commonwealth prosecutor to we'll just
Speaker 11: say how you.
Speaker 1: Go next time.
Speaker 11: Well, next time it might not just be a curfew
Speaker 11: breach and that is squarely at the fate of this government.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the issue, Daniel Malino. You know that
Speaker 2: the people are concerned about that the minister is taking
Speaker 2: the advice in many cases of this community Safety Board
Speaker 2: that might not recommend an ankle bracelet or might not
Speaker 2: oppose bail. And you know, Anthony Alberinezi prides himself on
Speaker 2: not losing any ministers to scandals. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: isn't he starting to look weak for not sacking Andrew
Speaker 2: Giles or Clara O'Neil.
Speaker 9: But look, I think fundamentally we have a system of government,
Speaker 9: without wanting to state the obvious, where we have a parliament,
Speaker 9: an executive, and a legislature and a judiciary and some
Speaker 9: functions we leave separate from the executive. Now, the system
Speaker 9: that was set up again according to this bill, was
Speaker 9: that there be this tribunal and that the minister not
Speaker 9: sign off on the detail of every single decision.
Speaker 2: Actually, the actually the board's role is to give him
Speaker 2: recommendations and it's up to him to take their advice
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 9: But we also, I think have seen a number of
Speaker 9: instances where prosecutors have made decisions which I think some
Speaker 9: in the media have questioned. And again I just think
Speaker 9: we've got to be a bit careful about imagining that
Speaker 9: ministers or politicians are going to second guess prosecutors at
Speaker 9: every step of the way. I mean, I think we've
Speaker 9: got to figure out what system do we want and
Speaker 9: if the opposition is now saying that they want a
Speaker 9: totally different system, than happy to hear it. But this
Speaker 9: was again something which both sides voted on.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on.
Speaker 2: Now we've seen that the Senator Fatima Payman, she was
Speaker 2: the one who repeated that hate chant last week, even
Speaker 2: though Anthony Albanezi said, you know, chancer from the river
Speaker 2: to the Sea have no place in our streets.
Speaker 1: Where she has now appeared at.
Speaker 2: The University of Melbourne where Auntie Israel protesters are occupying
Speaker 2: one of the buildings.
Speaker 1: Have a look. My conscience has been uneasy for far
Speaker 1: too long and I must call this out for what
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 8: This is a genocide from the river to the sea.
Speaker 6: Palestine will be free.
Speaker 2: And those were her comments before. And we're going to
Speaker 2: show you now a picture of her at the University
Speaker 2: of Melbourne today. There it is the os run it Holly.
Speaker 2: Is it appropriate that she's turned up to protest it
Speaker 2: this encampment?
Speaker 12: No, it's not at all.
Speaker 11: She's a West Australian senator. I'd be very intrigued as
Speaker 11: to what parliamentary business she thought she was doing in Victoria,
Speaker 11: particularly at Melbourne University today attending a protest and what
Speaker 11: is the camping that's been occurring in this university which
Speaker 11: they've blocked the second encampment they tried to do today.
Speaker 11: It is absolutely inappropriate. But again this is a failure
Speaker 11: of alber and easy to show any leadership. Remember the
Speaker 11: Labor Party used to be pretty strong and abiding by
Speaker 11: caucus rules. Well, Fatima Payment is now pushing those out
Speaker 11: the window. She's going against what the Labor Party's policy is.
Speaker 11: She's in complete breach of what their caucus has agreed
Speaker 11: to when it comes to Israel and Palestine, and yet
Speaker 11: nothing has been done and she still sits on a
Speaker 11: Foreign Affairs and Trade committee.
Speaker 1: He has done nothing.
Speaker 11: It is leak week leadership, and of course we know
Speaker 11: this is driven by internal politics. For four Southwest Sydney seats.
Speaker 2: What do you think, Daniel should she have turned up
Speaker 2: to an encampment where we know students have anti Semitic
Speaker 2: comments and slogans.
Speaker 9: Well, can I just preface my answer by saying that
Speaker 9: on the weekend I attended the Victorian State Labor Party conference.
Speaker 9: Attended through the front entrances I think anybody should have the.
Speaker 7: Right to do.
Speaker 9: There was a lot of pushing and shoving and jostling.
Speaker 9: There was a lot of over the top behavior, a
Speaker 9: lot of swarming and screaming in my face. I think
Speaker 9: when they realized I was a federal MP and look
Speaker 9: for me, let's.
Speaker 1: Just see a space view.
Speaker 2: Is that there were pro Palestinian protesters there. That's what
Speaker 2: you're referring to, Yes.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, And look it led to me reflecting on
Speaker 9: that balance between I think what's a very important part
Speaker 9: of our democracy, which is the robust competition of ideas,
Speaker 9: the right to protest. I think clearly what happened on
Speaker 9: the weekend across the line and what I think, and
Speaker 9: I think, look, you've talked about this Sharhi in other
Speaker 9: contexts and other MPs as well, but I simply wanted
Speaker 9: to reflect that.
Speaker 4: Look, for me, there.
Speaker 9: Is a creeping extremism to some of the language and
Speaker 9: the demeanor and indeed at times the physicality of the
Speaker 9: discussion and the way in which people are conducting themselves.
Speaker 9: So look, what I think in general is we need
Speaker 9: to have a broader discussion about the way in which
Speaker 9: we as a community discussed this issue where there are
Speaker 9: highly varied, very strongly held views, but we as a democracy,
Speaker 9: you need to be able to have a discussion about
Speaker 9: those in a way that is peaceful and that is respectful,
Speaker 9: and that is as empathetic as possible. And so what
Speaker 9: I would say is, in general, look, there have been
Speaker 9: a number of instances where I think things, Oh, I.
Speaker 2: Think we're just losing Daniel's audio there. Look, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: you know, free speech is essential, sure, but there's no
Speaker 2: place for hate speech and there's no.
Speaker 1: Place for violence.
Speaker 2: All Right, we'll leave it there with our political panel
Speaker 2: tonight Holly Hughes and Daniel Melino.
Speaker 1: Now after the.
Speaker 2: Break, more from Donald Trump's historic hush money trial as
Speaker 2: testimonies finally come to a close. The Australians Adam Crichton
Speaker 2: will join me live from Washington after the break. All right,
Speaker 2: now to the US, where Donald Trump's historic hush money
Speaker 2: trial is finally nearing its end and his defense team
Speaker 2: rested their case today. Many in the media were disappointed
Speaker 2: when the former president chose not to testify and this
Speaker 2: brought testimonies to a close. But Donald Trump Junior did
Speaker 2: have this to say outside of court.
Speaker 12: What's going on here is an absolute force and anyone
Speaker 12: in America should be embarrassed at the absolute miscarriage of
Speaker 12: justice that we're seeing here. The star witness in this
Speaker 12: case is a what nine times convicted liar and now
Speaker 12: an admitted thief. That is who they're hanging the entire case.
Speaker 12: The other one happens to be a porn star. Not exactly,
Speaker 12: not exactly the ultimate form of jurisprudence here.
Speaker 2: And of course he's referring there to trump'sformer fixer and lawyer,
Speaker 2: Michael Cohen. With the Australians Washington Correspondent Adam Crichton joins me.
Speaker 1: Now, Adam, great to suit.
Speaker 13: You.
Speaker 1: Look, the jury's now going to start.
Speaker 2: Deliberations next week. What can we expect. How long do
Speaker 2: you think it's going to take?
Speaker 4: Yeah, look, that's right.
Speaker 13: The jury gets a six week break. Now they come
Speaker 13: back on Tuesday for the closing arguments, which the judge
Speaker 13: thinks will take just one day. So therefore it's quite
Speaker 13: conceivable that by the end of next week we have
Speaker 13: the verdict from this jury. Look what's going to happen.
Speaker 13: I mean, it's interesting most of the legal scholars on TV,
Speaker 13: the experts, they don't think that the prosecution has reached
Speaker 13: the level of beyond reasonable doubt. And these include many
Speaker 13: kind of Democrat aligned experts. But you just can't predict
Speaker 13: the jury. There's seven men, there's five women. Interesting, there's
Speaker 13: two lawyers on the jury, so that can sometimes throw
Speaker 13: a curveball. But basically it just comes down to what
Speaker 13: they think, whether they're going to believe Michael Cohen or
Speaker 13: Donald Trump. That's really all it comes down to. And look,
Speaker 13: this jury, remember, is drawn from a voting area that
Speaker 13: I think voted for ninety percent for Joe Biden in
Speaker 13: twenty so it's quite possible that there are very few
Speaker 13: Trump supporters of the jury.
Speaker 2: Well, either way, it's kind of impossible to find any
Speaker 2: members of the jury who would not have an opinion
Speaker 2: on Donald Trump. I mean, he's one individual that I
Speaker 2: haven't met anyone who doesn't either hate him or love
Speaker 2: him now.
Speaker 1: I Meanwhile, the.
Speaker 2: Trump campaign is reportedly threatening legal action against a fictionalized biopic,
Speaker 2: The Apprentice.
Speaker 1: Tell me what this is about?
Speaker 13: Yeah, So this film tracks the rise of Donald Trump
Speaker 13: in the nineteen seventies in the nineteen eighties in New York,
Speaker 13: and it generally paints him as an absolutely horrible human being.
Speaker 13: There are parts in there where he rapes his first wife, Ivana,
Speaker 13: and apparently the scene is quite shocking. There were gaps
Speaker 13: apparently at the carn Film Festival when it was played. Interestingly,
Speaker 13: there's no distributor yet for this film, so that probably
Speaker 13: suggests that it's really more an exercising TDS or Trump
Speaker 13: derangement syndrome. I would say for the producers and the directors,
Speaker 13: I mean, it's probably not going to even hurt Donald Trump.
Speaker 13: I mean, to some extent, we've seen his rise. I mean,
Speaker 13: he generally benefits from these sort of attacks from the
Speaker 13: so called elites. So I don't think it's going to
Speaker 13: hurt him. I don't think he's going to win or
Speaker 13: lose any votes at the carn Film Festival.
Speaker 2: Well apparently at the Cairn Film Festival. I mean the
Speaker 2: film was apparently well received and it was even given
Speaker 2: a standing ovation.
Speaker 1: Have look, so.
Speaker 2: That's what it takes to win awards, Adam, you know,
Speaker 2: produce a film about Trump raping someone, no, his first
Speaker 2: wife as it turns out. Now I want to ask
Speaker 2: you about Julian Assigns. This is quite an amazing development.
Speaker 2: Yet again, he's won the right to appeal his extradition
Speaker 2: to the US. This comes after the High Court judges
Speaker 2: ruled that he could be prejudiced there under the Constitution's
Speaker 2: First Amendment because is Australian.
Speaker 1: Explain this for us.
Speaker 2: Why would the fact that he's Australian mean that he
Speaker 2: could appeal his extradition to the US, where he'd surely
Speaker 2: end up in prison And he says he fears for
Speaker 2: his life if he were to end up in prison.
Speaker 13: Well, basically, there's a principle in American jurisprudence that if
Speaker 13: you're not a US citizens you're not necessarily given the
Speaker 13: protections of the Bill of Rights, so free speech in
Speaker 13: this case, and obviously that's a huge part of the
Speaker 13: charges against Jewan Massage and his lawyers in the UK.
Speaker 13: They wanted the US government to provide guarantees to the
Speaker 13: British government that he would have First Amendment rights, free
Speaker 13: speech rights. But my understanding is the reissue swerrences were
Speaker 13: not strong enough for the court in the UK, and
Speaker 13: so they're going to allow him to appeal the whole extradition,
Speaker 13: which of course could take many many more months and weeks.
Speaker 13: This has already been so drawn out. I mean, you
Speaker 13: have to feel sorry. At least I feel sorry for
Speaker 13: him on one level. I mean, it just takes so
Speaker 13: long for the judicial system to work.
Speaker 4: You know, what are his prospects.
Speaker 13: I mean, generally the British judges have been extremely bad
Speaker 13: for assumed. They generally side all the time with the
Speaker 13: US government. So I mean, I don't think his prospects
Speaker 13: are necessarily great. Just because there's an appeal, we have
Speaker 13: to wait and see.
Speaker 2: All right, Look, just finally, before you go, Adam, you've
Speaker 2: written your column for The Australian tomorrow on the who
Speaker 2: pandemic Treaty. This is starting to gain traction, but in
Speaker 2: Australia we don't really know what it's about.
Speaker 1: Are we going to sign up to it? Explain this?
Speaker 13: Yeah, look, I mean it's extraordinary how little media attention
Speaker 13: this gets. I mean it's a pretty significant change. You know,
Speaker 13: there'll be no changes to the World Health Organization's regulation
Speaker 13: since two thousand and five. These are binding agreements between
Speaker 13: nations on how to deal with pandemics and basically there's
Speaker 13: a treaty that's going to be voted upon next week
Speaker 13: in Geneva, which will significantly increase the parent influence of.
Speaker 4: The World Health Organization.
Speaker 13: Now, you know, my view is it did a terrible
Speaker 13: job during the pandemic. We don't need to give it
Speaker 13: any more power. A little scrutiny of these changes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean exactly.
Speaker 2: The WHL told everyone to continue travel. That opposed the
Speaker 2: travel bands said the virus wasn't infectious COVID, there was
Speaker 2: no human anyway. Adam Crichton, thank you for joining us. Now,
Speaker 2: if you missed my exclusive on Channel nine at the
Speaker 2: start of the program, head to the Sky News website.
Speaker 2: We'll have more on the show tomorrow night. But right
Speaker 2: now here's pon Murray. I'll see you tomorrow at eight