1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: I got a welcome to another installment in the show. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Of course, it is the Project Tiffany, and Cook is 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: not here. She's in the hammock, she's in the jacuzzi, 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: she's anywhere but the virtual studio. But I tell you 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: who has rocked up driven straight to the virtual studio 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: in his ten year old Volvo station Wagon, which I 7 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: said I wouldn't talk about on air, but fuck it. 8 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: David James, Kevin Patrick Gillespie. 9 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: Good I mate. 10 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: I did ask you randomly off air what kind of 11 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: car and you were You were amused by that, and 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: I was just thinking, just because you're a kind of 13 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: a practical functional dude with a practical functional car, so 14 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't surprised at the answer. You've never been a 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: You've never been an ausy bogan concern with zero to 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: one hundred and the horsepower and Newton meters and all 17 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: that shit. 18 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: No. No, as long as it gets me from A 19 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 2: to B, then job done. 20 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. Have you been having a squiz at the Olympics. 21 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: I have. I have, indeed, because of my involvement with handball, 22 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: which I think we course once or twice. You know, 23 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 2: it's good having a two week long handball competition that 24 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: you can just tune in and watch for free on 25 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: Telly and with an English commentary no less, oh. 26 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: Really of course? And who's I mean who did well? 27 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Like I didn't see one minute of handball. 28 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: So it's so Denmark won the men and Norway won 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: the women, which and neither of those were particularly unexpected results. 30 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 2: But a lot of them are full of people who've 31 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: been there for a good decade or so, so it's 32 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: going to be a changing of the. 33 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: Guard, okay. And who how many countries in the world, 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Like if we look at you know, like for example, 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 1: I worked with the Melbourne Dixens and Melbourne Phoenix and 36 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: some of the Australian netballers and Collingwood in the National 37 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: Netball League. But if we look at netball as an 38 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: example as a sport globally, you know, it is an 39 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: international sport, but there's probably about four or five countries 40 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: that are really good at it, four or five that 41 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: are pretty good, five that are emerging, and then no 42 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: one else in the world gives a shit. What's the 43 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: equivalent with handball? Like how many countries really play it 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: and really are good at it? 45 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: There? Well, all of Europe play it, which is what 46 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: it tends to be called European handball. It's the I 47 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 2: think it's the third biggest participation sport in Europe behind 48 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 2: soccer or football as people like to call it, and 49 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: I think the other one there is basketball is a 50 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 2: big one, but so handball's behind that. The professional leagues 51 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: there are absolutely huge. A lot of the players that 52 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 2: were running around at the Olympics of you know, earning 53 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 2: tens of millions of dollars a year playing handball. There's 54 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: three million people in Europe play it. It's huge in 55 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 2: South America as well, probably the European influence there. North 56 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: America is pretty much like Australia, which is what's regarded 57 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: as a developing nation where you know, I guess, I 58 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: guess what Zimbabwe is to netball is what we are 59 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:09,679 Speaker 2: to handle. Yeah, but it's massively bigger than netball. Netball's 60 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 2: wildest dreams couldn't be that big. I mean the gold 61 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 2: medal match, so the final four matches in the women's 62 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: and men's comp at the Olympics were at a capacity 63 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: stadium with thirty thousand people, so you know, each each 64 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: match thirty thousand people. So it's a big sport. 65 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy, I am. I'm just trying to find 66 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: something now. I put up a post the other day 67 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: about about the relative kind of per capita medals. Like 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: a few people have put up a few things, but 69 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 1: at the time that I wrote it, which was I 70 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: think Friday night, nine pm or something, New Zealand with 71 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: a population of five million, they were doing very well. Yeah, 72 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: and they finished with nine gold medals, like five million. 73 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: You know, there's more than five million people where I live, 74 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: like in Melbourne, right, it's yea. And I'm thinking, then 75 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: I extrapolated that out, and I'm thinking, well, China has 76 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: when I looked to give or take one point four 77 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: and a bit billion, you know, And I was thinking, wow, 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: if they had a similar kind of per head ratio, 79 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: they'd be up to fourteen hundred gold medals, right, and 80 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: like if it was if Obviously it doesn't work that 81 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: way and there's a lot of variables around it. But 82 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, while I'm very proud of Australia and all that, 83 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: clearly I did no fucking work, neither did you. I 84 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: find that a funny thing. How oh, how well are 85 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: we doing? 86 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 2: Well? 87 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything I'm just the people. Yeah, yeah, 88 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: it's funny how we take ownership. 89 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: But anyway, and in my case, I'm not even watching Australians. 90 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 1: Well that's exactly right, but you know there's a reason 91 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: for that. But yeah, they ended up with nine gold 92 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: medals in a country of you know, five million people. 93 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: When you think there's something like forty million people that 94 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: live in California or something. It's you know, it's fucking amazing. 95 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 2: But you always punches above their weight. I mean you 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: just look at them in the rugby for starters. Yeah, 97 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: you know, they're always they are a sports mad nation. 98 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 2: They they're the sports crazy state of Australia. They don't 99 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: like being referred to that way, but that's pretty much 100 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: how I think of them. 101 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: It's hilarious. 102 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 2: And what did you make of the Big Girl controversy? 103 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: Oh do you know what? Okay? Everyone, so we're talking 104 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: about the breakdown, to which in the Olympic call it breaking. 105 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to get in trouble. 106 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: I just gone have an opinion. 107 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: Harp, No, well my opinion, you know, like so part 108 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,280 Speaker 1: of me is like, well done. You had to go 109 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 1: when I first saw it, honestly, and this is just 110 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know if it was a parent or if 111 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: it was I don't know. I don't know. Look, I 112 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: think good on her for having a go, But and 113 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: people like I saw people coming out going, oh, stop 114 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: stop putting women down, and is that like for me, 115 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: it's got nothing to do with gender. It's got everything 116 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: to do with skill and ability. And yeah, I want 117 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: to sit on the fence because I don't want to 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: get in trouble. But yeah, well, clearly, clearly she wasn't 119 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: at the same level as the other competitors. I don't know, 120 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. 121 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: It's just isn't that Isn't that the equivalent of saying, 122 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: you know, qualifying for one hundred meters knowing that your 123 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: best time in one hundred meters is twenty seconds, and 124 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: you're going to be racing against people who do ten 125 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: seconds and then and then rather than running against them 126 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: and doing your twenty seconds, you decide, you know what, 127 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to skip. Yeah, you know, I don't know 128 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: if that's what happened. 129 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean obviously, well, you know, we're we 130 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: think about the Olympics. I'm generalizing, we think about the 131 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: best athletes on the planet with the best fitness, best strength, power, speed, 132 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: skill like the elite of the elite, and I don't 133 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: know like good on a like. I think good on 134 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: A for having a go, And I think if she's 135 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: happy and people enjoyed it, then I think it's good. 136 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 2: Well, I worry. I mean, I don't know breakdancing from 137 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: anything else. I know zero about breakdancing. I don't know 138 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 2: how good bad her and different her performance was. All 139 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: I'm talking about is a controversy about it. And the 140 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 2: thing that concerns me coming from I guess a sports 141 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: administration perspective, you know, being involved in handball is who 142 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 2: missed out on that place? Is the question that occurs 143 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: to me. You know, I struggle to believe that there 144 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: are very you know, I suspect there's a lot of 145 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: dance schools around Australia with lots of people who do breakdancing. 146 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 2: I presume I don't know anything about it, but I 147 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: presume there must be where there are no other people 148 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: to choose from. I don't know. 149 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think the answer to that is again, 150 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: so anyone listening to these two are white middle aged men. 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: We both will acknowledge it. We both acknowledge we do 152 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: not know anything about this, No, but what I think 153 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: I do know is that I think there was like 154 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 1: essentially trials, and she was she won. 155 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: I think she was the best, and then she deserved 156 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 2: to be there, didn't she exactly exactly? 157 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: So if that was the process and she came out 158 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: and she was the best of the people who tried 159 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: to qualify for the team, and she won that well, 160 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: got through that process being number one, then han't absent. 161 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: She deserves to be there. 162 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 2: Then really the only critique critique people can give her is, well, 163 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 2: you know, if you came through a fair trial process 164 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: just like everybody else, and you and you were the 165 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: one selected, then you have just as much right to 166 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: be there as anybody else. And and and then what 167 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: you're really doing is critiquing the artistry of what she did. 168 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: And given that this is a dance thing, not not 169 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 2: I mean I might inflame people by saying this, but 170 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 2: it's dance not sport in my view, then artistry is 171 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: part of the deal. So what you're really saying is 172 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: I don't like the routine she chose. 173 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think also, you know, the artistry slash 174 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: creative expression, like you think about like I've literally tried. 175 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: I've trained a bunch of Olympic athletes and one of 176 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: the girls that I trained was in I can't of 177 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 1: remember which games, but anyway, she was a synchronized swimmer. 178 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: Her name is Bethany Walsh. And honestly, when I her 179 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: dad approached me and went, would you work with my daughter? 180 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: She's an Olympian? And I went, what sport? And he 181 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: told me and I went, not a sport, though, is it? 182 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: You know? I didn't really I didn't really think that. 183 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: I just my idea and then I I was completely wrong. 184 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: By the way, before anyone sends me an email, I 185 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: went and watched them, tray, I went and watched what 186 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: these girls have to do and how fucking strong and 187 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: fit and talented, and I mean, it is a demanding sport. 188 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: But then there are other things, like you know, I 189 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: think like we have these like contrasting events like the 190 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 1: Wimmens one hundred meters you know, or blokes hundred meters 191 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: where it's just power speed like which you know, is 192 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: like a completely athletic it seems to be event. And 193 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: then other things like you know, the rhythmic gymnastics, which 194 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: is still very strong, very fit, but a much more 195 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: kind of creative subjective. 196 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 2: There's no clear subjective elements, don't but it has objective 197 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: elements to it because it's part of the gymnastics stuff. 198 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: But it's also got some artistic subjective elements to it, 199 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: doesn't it. 200 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Well, Yeah, and I then there's the sports like you know, 201 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: weightlifting and rowing and basketball and sprinting and just watch. Yeah, 202 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: there's someone's whoever's got the best or the right number, 203 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: the lowest time or the heaviest weight or the most 204 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 1: points on the board that they just win as long 205 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: as they work within the rules. But then there's this 206 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: other thing where we go and even diving, Like I 207 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: look at the diving and I go, oh, that was 208 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: fucking incredible, and then they're like scored lower what do 209 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: I know? And someone else who I think, yeah, that 210 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: was You. 211 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: Can tell that there's a lot of subjectivity in something 212 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: like diving because you see them even the way they score. 213 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 2: You know, I don't know how many judges they have, 214 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: but it's like seven or eight judges, and then they 215 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 2: knock out the highest and lower scores, which tells you 216 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 2: that even the people who are professionals are judging this 217 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 2: get it wrong from their perspective, and that's why they 218 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 2: take out the highest and lower scores. Yeah. 219 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: Well, also even in the boxing, I watched fair bit 220 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: of boxing, and there was numerous times where of the 221 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: five judges, three awarded it to the blue corner and 222 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: two awarded it to the red corner. And they just 223 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: watched the same thing. And I'm like, sixty percent of 224 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: the judges said Brian one and forty said fucking Dave one, 225 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: and they just watched this. Yes, do you know what 226 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: I mean? So it ends up in a split decision. 227 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't think you and I intended to 228 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: bang on about the Olympics, but. 229 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: There we already didn't know. I thought it was interesting. 230 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: Look what it is is, it's a phenomenon that you know, 231 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: a few people have spoken about, let's just keep going 232 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: with a few people have spoken about the reality that 233 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 1: it generates billions of dollars, but the athletes don't get 234 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: any of that. And then then you look at the 235 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: even within countries, like if you win a gold medal 236 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: in Australia, I've seen two different reported numbers, but it's 237 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,199 Speaker 1: either fifteen or twenty thousand bucks, which to me seems 238 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: fuck all for an Olympic gold medal, but especially when 239 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: you if you're a first round loser at Wimbledon, I 240 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: think you get seventy or eighty grand if. 241 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: You're to get to winner. Pardon the trick is to 242 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 2: get to Wimbledon, I guess. 243 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but there's still like yeah, but still 244 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: you know it's you're losing a match of tennis and 245 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 1: you're getting one hundred or whatever. I guess so, But 246 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: but then you're winning an Olympic gold medal for Australia 247 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: and you get fifteen or twenty grand. Live in Singapore, 248 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: you get seven hundred and fifty grand. 249 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, although if you are at least an individual who 250 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 2: wins a gold medal at an Olympics, yes, you're probably 251 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: going to be able to turn that into some money 252 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 2: through sponsorships, endorsement, speaking career, et cetera, et cetera. 253 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, Like I think the technically all gold 254 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: medals are Olympic gold medals, they're all equal, but financially, 255 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: commercially they're definitely not all equal, are they in terms 256 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: of you know, like a a friend of mine is 257 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: an Olympic gold medalist, Lauren who won the Lauren Burns 258 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: who won the Taekwondo Olympic gold for US Australia in 259 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: the two thousand Olympics. And you know, she's a great athlete. 260 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: She deserved a gold medal. She's amazing. She's also got 261 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: a PhD. She's also a corporate speaker. But you know, 262 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: she will tell you she earns about nine dollars thirty 263 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: a year through that gold medal. You know, it certainly 264 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: doesn't hurt, but you know she has to work, she 265 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: has to study, she has to grind. 266 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 2: Oh, I'd heard of her, so it's worth something. 267 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: Oh have you heard of her? 268 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: When you said her name? It rung a bell with me. 269 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well I think yeah she was. Who's 270 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: her dad? Was it Ronnie Burns? I think the Australian anyway, 271 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: So let's just quickly talk about what we were going 272 00:14:58,880 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: to talk about. 273 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: We're actually going to Yeah, yeah, well. 274 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned to me the just about chatting about the 275 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: what seems to be the increasing prevalence of you know, 276 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: people being people pulling knives on police and the subsequent 277 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, goings on of people with mental health issues 278 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: who are you know, either being tasered or shot or 279 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: and it seems like is it disproportionate in Queensland or 280 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: we just get more exposure to it. 281 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. I haven't done any sort of comprehensive 282 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: analysis of it. But what prompted me to raise this 283 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: with you is it's been on the news a bit 284 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: here in Queensland on the weekend because there's been a 285 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 2: police shooting of a fellow who pulled a knife on 286 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: police in a hospital and I think he survived it, 287 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: but there's been a lot of reporting about it because 288 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: they are saying this is the sort of third time 289 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: it's happened recently, and I think the Queensland Police Union 290 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: are saying there needs to be there needs to be 291 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 2: an inquiry in relation to mental health in Australia that 292 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 2: most of what police are dealing with when they go 293 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: out on calls now is dealing with people with mental 294 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: health issues. Now. He didn't cite any statistics for that, 295 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: so I don't know, but just going on his word, 296 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: and I guess head of the Police union probably knows 297 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 2: something about it, it does seem logical that a lot 298 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 2: of what police spend their time doing is dealing with 299 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 2: people with mental health issues in the community and So 300 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: what I did do is going to have a look 301 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 2: at the statistics on this and have the rates of 302 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: reported mental health issues in the community increase. So when 303 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: you talk about mental health issues in the community and 304 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: you start looking at the health statistics on it, they 305 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: divide him into sort of three groups, which is anxiety, depression, 306 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: what they call effective disorders, and drug abuse related disorders. 307 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 2: So mental health is a kind of a vague word 308 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: to use, and the media uses it a lot, but 309 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 2: it really only means those things. Right. There's people who 310 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 2: are schizophrenic slash psychotic and people who aren't. And this 311 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 2: is all seen as a spectrum. So anxiety is at 312 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 2: the light end of that spectrum. It progresses towards schizophrenia 313 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: and are sorry to psychosis, which is an isolator or 314 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 2: a single event of extreme paranoia, through to schizophrenia, which 315 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 2: is recurring events of extreme paranoia. Now those are all paranoia. 316 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: Is another way of saying anxiety about the intentions of 317 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: other humans. Right, So if you think about what anxiety is, 318 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 2: anxiety is an overestimation of risk. So you look at 319 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 2: the environment, and you all of us do this all 320 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 2: the time. We look at the environment and we estimate 321 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 2: a potential danger to us in that environment. And people 322 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: who don't have mental health issues, I guess you want 323 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: to call them normal. If you want estimate, to say, 324 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 2: the environmental risk. You might be looking around you now 325 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 2: and thinking about the environmental risk and see nothing that's 326 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 2: particularly threatening to you and nothing that's putting you in 327 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 2: fear of your life or any sort of danger to you. 328 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 2: But a person who is suffering from anxiety is overestimating 329 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 2: that same risk set in your environment. So I don't 330 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: know what's in your environment. There might be some electronics 331 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: to do with this podcast, for example, and a person 332 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 2: with extreme anxiety might be looking at those electronics and 333 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 2: be worried about being electrocuted. Even though you might say, 334 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: you know, I'm assessing the risk here as load and 335 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: non existent. What anxiety does is change the risk assessment 336 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 2: materior in your brain. And we've talked about before how 337 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: that happens. So that's because too many hits of dopamine 338 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 2: caused by either a too stressful environment or addiction raises 339 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: are tolerance level, which adjusts the input values for your 340 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 2: brain in terms of assessing risk. So the higher that 341 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 2: threshold goes, that is the more stress you are under, 342 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: or the more addiction you are exposed to, the worse 343 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,479 Speaker 2: you become at assessing assessing environmental risk. So the more 344 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: addicted you are, the more stressed you are, the more 345 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: likely you are to significantly overestimate the risk in your environment. 346 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 2: And we call that anxiety, which is stress about risk 347 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 2: overestimating the danger to you. Now, what happens is that 348 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 2: if you allow that to go for too long, that 349 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 2: then transfers into an overestimator of the overestimation of the 350 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: dane of other humans. So you start to worry about 351 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: the intentions of others. So you might be in an 352 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,840 Speaker 2: environment where there's nothing there other than another person, but 353 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 2: you are overestimating the risk of that person. You start 354 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: thinking that they are there to do you harm, even 355 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: though there's nothing to a normal person sitting in the room, 356 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 2: there's nothing about them that suggests that they might do 357 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 2: you harm, you know them or whatever. As this risk 358 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: assessment gets pushed out of whack by addictional stress, you 359 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 2: start to have fears about the intention of others, and 360 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 2: when that becomes extreme it gets called a psychotic event, right, 361 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 2: which is that you are so upset or in fear 362 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: of your life because of the intention of another person 363 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: that you are forced to act against them. So you 364 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 2: are in a place where you've got to stop them 365 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 2: before they hurt you, even though there's nothing that would 366 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: suggest they are going to you know, in a normal assessment, 367 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 2: that's their view of things, and often when police called 368 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 2: out that's what they're encountering. They're encountering someone who's in 369 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:15,239 Speaker 2: that state. So a person who sees the police as 370 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: an imminent threat, and obviously they are, But to a 371 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: normal person, it's all I've got to do is stop 372 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 2: behaving weirdly and the police will stop being an imminent threat. 373 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: But that calculation is not possible when your brain's risk 374 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 2: assessment capability is out of whack. So the question is 375 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: has there been an actual increase in the things that 376 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: are being measured here, And the answer is very definitely yes. 377 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: So if we look at the last time it was 378 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 2: surveyed in two thousand and nine, estimated that there was 379 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: about eleven percent of the population we're suffering depression, anxiety, 380 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: or other serious mental illness, so usually drug related about 381 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: eleven percent in two thousand and nine at any given 382 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: moment in time, right, So, well, it's actually reportab within 383 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 2: the last twelve months. So in twenty twenty one when 384 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 2: they did the same survey again, it was nineteen percent. Wow, 385 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: that is so acid. So that's almost doubling in a 386 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: ten year period. So that's significant. You've gone from one 387 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 2: in ten people to one in five people in ten years. 388 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 2: And if that's what's going on in the environment, it's 389 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 2: little wonder that police are finding themselves increasingly facing people 390 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: who have no control over the fact that their brain 391 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: is telling them that these people are an imminent threat 392 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 2: to me, not just the police, but everybody around them, 393 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 2: and to me, that's a concern. It's a concern that 394 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 2: this is a surprise to anyone. It's a concern that 395 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: it isn't headline news every day of the week. And 396 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 2: it's a concern that the best anyone can ask for 397 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: is a Royal Commission into mental health. We don't need 398 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: a Royal Commission into mental health, which is what the 399 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: police union fellow was asking for. I could look at 400 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 2: those stats. I don't I'm not a Royal commissioner. I 401 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: just looked up the stats on the Australian Institute of 402 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: Health and Welfare's website. It tells the story immediately, which 403 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: is something is going on here. Now. You and I 404 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: have talked in the past about why would that be, 405 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 2: Why would suddenly the incidents of this stuff have doubled, 406 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 2: And we know the answer. We flooded the population with 407 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: the very things we know are just that threshold measure 408 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 2: of risk. We know that when you make someone an addict, 409 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,479 Speaker 2: which is why, by the way, drug related psychosis is 410 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 2: lumped in with these mental illnesses, when you make someone 411 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: an addict, you are just that threshold determinant of risk. Now, 412 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: before two thousand and nine, that was relatively rare. It 413 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 2: only affected one in ten people. Since two thousand and nine, 414 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 2: it's gone off like a rocket. What have we done 415 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 2: that has introduced massive amounts of addiction into the population 416 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,640 Speaker 2: since two thousand and nine. Any clues? 417 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I would think tech technology, scraps. 418 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: We've importantly, we've put access to software designed to addict 419 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 2: the human brain in the hands of every teenager in 420 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: the country, which is the point in life where this occurs, 421 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 2: that is where all addictions start. We've put devices in 422 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 2: their hands that are the equivalent of a dopamine button 423 00:24:55,119 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: that gives repeated, continuous hits of dopamine the thing we 424 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: know are just risk tolerance, and then we are surprised 425 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 2: when that is exactly what occurs. 426 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, I mean like when I listen to 427 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: you break this down, which I've listened to similar things 428 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: with you before, and it makes complete sense. Is there 429 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: anyone else sharing this gospel or sharing this this line 430 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: of thinking? Like is anyone else drawing these putting these 431 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: jigsaw pieces together like you do? 432 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: Like because yeah, you know you go on, you know 433 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 2: you finished and finish. 434 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: I was also this is like an adjacent conversation. But 435 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,239 Speaker 1: the other thing that occurs to me with all of this, 436 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: and so andswer which one you want first, is that 437 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: like on top of the people with elevated anxiety and 438 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: paranoia and situational whatever that the cops go into, then 439 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: there's the cops themselves that have been anxious and traumatized 440 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: and potentially elevated. Like I work with police, and that 441 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: there aren't too many cops who don't have their own trauma. 442 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 1: Who are you dealing with something? Because of they need 443 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 1: to be perpetually hyper vigilant. 444 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 2: I mean, well, remember the other way to induce this 445 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,760 Speaker 2: state is of stress. So they're going the other pathway, 446 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 2: which is if you're constantly exposed to stress, then you'll 447 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: have the same thing. Now that's by design, by the way, 448 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 2: because you want to be hyper vigilant and hyper alert 449 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 2: if you are in an environment where you are constantly 450 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 2: in very real danger. So that is a pro evolutionary thing. 451 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 2: It's not good for your mental health, you know, which 452 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 2: is why. 453 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: It's it's good for in the moment survival, But it's 454 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: a nervous system all for anything over the long time, no. 455 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 2: Because it leaves that risk. The risk assessment doesn't change 456 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 2: as soon as you are in a non threatening environment. 457 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 2: So it's it's the same thing as happens with addiction, 458 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 2: which is that you are left with that risk assessment 459 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: set too high. And so the other interesting thing is 460 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: that there's massive crossover then between someone who's in that 461 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,639 Speaker 2: state and addiction. So a person exposed to chronic stress 462 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: is most likely to be addicted to something. Someone who 463 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 2: is addicted to something is most likely to be in 464 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: a situation of chronic stress. So there's massive overlap between 465 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: those two things. 466 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: Well, obviously there's no quick solution, but and this is 467 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 1: very left field, but do do police in Coinsland carry tasers. 468 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: They do, yes, right, and and the use of those 469 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 2: has increased. I think I saw in the story about 470 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,399 Speaker 2: this that the use of those has increased massively in 471 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 2: the last year or so. 472 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean it's a you know, 473 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure no one wants to be tasered, but I'd 474 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: rather be tasered than shot with a bullet. 475 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, the guidelines for use of a taser 476 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: is a policeman is only supposed to draw it when 477 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: they feel under imminent threat. Yes, so under personal threat. 478 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 2: So it's so the fact that it's being used more 479 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 2: frequently tells you that there's more threat. It's a more 480 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 2: threatening environment. Yeah. So, you know, the problem we've got 481 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 2: here is that we now have, you know, in the 482 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,119 Speaker 2: space of a decade, double the number of people in 483 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 2: the population who are likely to be a threat, and 484 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: we are doing nothing about that. We are you know, 485 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 2: we've done it using a device designed to create exactly 486 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: this issue, and we are doing exactly nothing about it. 487 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 2: So don't expect solutions to appear soon, no matter how 488 00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 2: many Royal commissions are held. 489 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: And also, you know, the use of tech is not 490 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,719 Speaker 1: going to go down. No, No, people are not going 491 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: to be using these things less. 492 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: I mean, well, because because it's addictive. 493 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. So what's the answer then, 494 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: or what's part of the answer. 495 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 2: The part of the answer is exactly the same answer 496 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 2: as if we were having this conversation I don't know 497 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 2: fifteen years ago when I first wrote about sugar, the 498 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: answer would be exactly the same. Stop using it. Understand 499 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 2: And people say, well, you know, how do I do that? Well, 500 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 2: you have to understand where it is and how you're 501 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 2: ingesting it. You know, if you talk to a smoker, 502 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 2: for example, no one accidentally shoves a cigarette in their 503 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 2: mouth and lights it. They understand exactly what they're doing. 504 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 2: And when we have this conversation with people, like I 505 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 2: said fifteen years ago about sugar, you know, it's the 506 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: accidental ingestion. It's not understanding what you're doing that's the problem. 507 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: And once you know what you're doing, people are smart 508 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 2: enough to stop it. You know, people are smart enough 509 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 2: to stand back from an addiction once they understand that 510 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 2: it is an addiction and do something about it. Most 511 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: people will People are not self destructive. Most people will say, 512 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 2: I actually don't want to do this. I don't want 513 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: my brain messed with. I want to step back from it. 514 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 2: But at the moment, the prevailing narrative is not only 515 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 2: is this safe, this is necessary, and we have to 516 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,360 Speaker 2: give our kids these devices to use in schools. We 517 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: have to be able to step back from that and 518 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 2: realistically say, no, oops, sorry, made a bit of a mistake, 519 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: accidentally distributed highly addictive stuff to school children. But it's okay, 520 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: we're on it. We'll stop doing that now. 521 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: But I guess the difference between you know, in the 522 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: cigarette analogy, the difference is that you know, technology is 523 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: integrated into every like literally every component of our existence now. 524 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 2: But a person who smokes a cigarette today knows exactly 525 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: what they are doing and they don't care. Okay, they 526 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 2: know what they're doing, they know the potential damage. They 527 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 2: know it's addictive, which is why there's only about thirteen 528 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: percent of people who still do it. But and there'll 529 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: be a component of that no matter what you're talking about, 530 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 2: people who will say, you know what, I know it's addictive. 531 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 2: I don't care. I enjoy it. It's a pleasurable thing 532 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 2: for me. I need it. I'm doing it anyway. I 533 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 2: don't care but the vast majority of people who indulge 534 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: in addictive behavior don't want to be doing it, and 535 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: once they know that that's what they're doing, they will 536 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 2: take steps to stop doing it. 537 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:46,959 Speaker 1: I feel like with and this is just a feeling, 538 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: not a bloody fact, but I feel like with technology, 539 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, people will be listening to this, nodding along, 540 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: going yeah, people should do something about that, but it's not. 541 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 2: Well, there's an asset test, isn't there, you know, And 542 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 2: this is the one I put out to people when 543 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 2: I speak to groups, which is people will often say, 544 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 2: I'll say, you know what all you've got to do 545 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 2: is stop doing it, you know, stop using Instagram. People 546 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 2: not their heads and say yeah, yeah, I can stop 547 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 2: doing that, no worries at all. And I say, oh, excellent, 548 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 2: all right, so just delete the app from your phone. 549 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 2: I'll go, yeah, yeah, I can do that, and you'll say, oh, 550 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 2: that's good. But you know, I know you're thinking in 551 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: the back of mind, I can just reinstall later if 552 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 2: I get desperate. So now delete your account then, and 553 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: people start having a rob. 554 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah that's different, isn't it. That's different. 555 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: That's permanent. 556 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So so I know we're going to wind up. 557 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: But pursuant to this, your honor, have you been and 558 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: I know your kids are mostly older now, but have 559 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: you consciously kind of created framework or rules or you know, 560 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: standards in your house with your kids around all this stuff? 561 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,880 Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, absolutely so. One of the books I wrote 562 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: about this teen Brain, which was the first one I wrote, 563 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 2: I think, came out twenty sixteen something like that. It 564 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: actually described what we do in our household and we unfortunately, 565 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 2: they attended a school where devices were mandatory, so hipads 566 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: were mandatory. So it took every gram of willpower and 567 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: sticking to the cause approach to things to regulate their 568 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 2: use of those, because they come home with the device right, 569 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 2: and then they're off to their bedroom or whatever. And 570 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 2: unless you're prepared to ride them like a pony on 571 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 2: this stuff right and get that device back and put 572 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: it in a public place and make sure it is 573 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 2: not touched again and keep monitoring it, then they're just 574 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 2: too quick and it's too easy and too portable unless 575 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 2: you are. So. One of my kids, the eldest, who 576 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 2: were sort of pre this area, created a little stand 577 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 2: he made out of wood which which they could all 578 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 2: sit on to be charged, and it was just made 579 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: it really really easy to keep an eye on, you know, 580 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,800 Speaker 2: you just had to be able to count. Then, right, Okay, 581 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 2: there's four kids and there's four devices. That's it. They're 582 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: all in that in one place. I know it. If 583 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 2: one's missing, you know, you've got to go hunting. But 584 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 2: that's just what the device the school required them to do. 585 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 2: With phones, we ban them entirely, not in I mean, 586 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 2: they had phones, but they were the twenty dollars cheapies 587 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:34,839 Speaker 2: you get from came up. But all they can do 588 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 2: is make and receive phone calls. They didn't have the 589 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: kind you know, they didn't have smartphones, and which was 590 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 2: fortunate because when the only thing a phone does is 591 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,919 Speaker 2: make and receive phone calls, it gets lost a lot. Yeah, 592 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 2: so it was good that they were cheap, yes, yes. 593 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: And now that now that there will some of them 594 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: are how old is your youngest? 595 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: My youngest now are twenty Well they're turning twenty one 596 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:58,399 Speaker 2: this year. 597 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: Okay, so all your are adults, and do they ever 598 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: talk to you about growing up in that environment and 599 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 1: their pleasure or displeasure or at that, you know, is 600 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: it like I'm glad you did that, dad, or you 601 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: were a fucking tyrant dad. 602 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't ever expect to be thanked for stuff like 603 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 2: this by your kids. I they now because they're adults. 604 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,959 Speaker 2: You know, they have their own phones, they use them, 605 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: and they probably spend way too much time on them. 606 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 2: But I think I can detect that they're not addicted 607 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 2: to them. And that's because a critical thing to remember 608 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 2: about this is it is growth stage dependent. All addictions 609 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 2: start between the onset of puberty and about eight to 610 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: nine years later. So that's because that's the particular part 611 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 2: of the growth of the human brain when something that 612 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 2: protects us against addiction is turned off, and that is 613 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 2: turned off to allow puberty to happen and to allow 614 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,000 Speaker 2: a certain part of the brain to grow. This has 615 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 2: been known long before we had devices that all addictions 616 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 2: start in the teens. Alcoholics became alcoholics in their teens. 617 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 2: All smokers became smokers in their teens. It's not just 618 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 2: you know, anecdotes, that's what the evidence says. So it 619 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 2: is singularly the worst possible time to expose anybody to 620 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 2: anything potentially addictive, and yet that's exactly what we are doing. 621 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's when the door's open widest last one before 622 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: we go with all of these what seems to be 623 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 1: an upsurge in knife attacks if we're correlating it to 624 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, in some way, and the increase in mental 625 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: health anxiety, depression, drug related mental health to doubling in 626 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 1: ten years, blah blah blah, and one of the byproducts 627 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: of that might be these knife attacks. But at the 628 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: same time, or it's just interesting to note that the 629 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: vast majority of the knife attack ers men. So yeah, like, well, 630 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: maybe that's not true, but like I rarely, you know, 631 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: all of the stuff that we see on the news 632 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,760 Speaker 1: is invariably it's men with knives. 633 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if you've noticed, Craig, but there's 634 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 2: a difference between men and women, and it's. 635 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: A lot when you're sarcastic, it's a good thing that 636 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: you're in another state. You on the nose. 637 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 2: There's a there's a key difference. It's a really really 638 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 2: important difference. It's a little hormone called testosterone, and testosterone 639 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:44,839 Speaker 2: has a significant effect on impulse control. So when you're 640 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 2: loaded to the eyeballs with testosterone, as any male, particularly 641 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 2: a male between the start of puberty and sort of 642 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:57,720 Speaker 2: their early thirties. Is they have significantly less impulse control 643 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 2: than a female of the same and I'm talking massively less, 644 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 2: which is which is why violent crimes tend to be 645 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 2: committed by people who fit that age and gender. And 646 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 2: it's it's that when you wire someone to consider the 647 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 2: world more dangerous than the average person would regard it, 648 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 2: and then you dial their impulse control down to zero, 649 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: predictable things happen. 650 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: M So I mean, yeah, so it's that combination really, 651 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: because we're not even though women are subjected to the 652 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: same stressors and I would think anxiety depression and you know, 653 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: is as high or higher in some instances, but they're 654 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: not running around with knives. So another significant factor is 655 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 1: that is that is testosterone? 656 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 2: Well absolutely, and you see it come through in suicide statistics, 657 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: so yes, you see. I mean I really don't like 658 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 2: referring to it as success, but success suicides are more 659 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 2: often performed by males. 660 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: And such a crazy term that that isn't it? It's like, yeah, 661 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: but that is the term, So don't send us an 662 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: email because that is the term that is used everyone. 663 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's it's the same thing at play, which 664 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 2: is less impulse control, more testosterone, more ability to complete 665 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,800 Speaker 2: the act. And you see that in the methodology of suicide. 666 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:39,439 Speaker 2: It's chosen as well. So females frequently will choose a 667 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 2: you know, like an overdose or something that doesn't involve 668 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 2: a violent, you know, attack on themselves, whereas a male 669 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 2: will will have no concerns about it being a train whatever. 670 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 2: I don't want to talk about this in detail, but 671 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 2: it's but there are very obvious differences to that. There's 672 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 2: a lot of research on why, and it does come 673 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: back to that difference in testosterone loading and impulse control. 674 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, amazing. Well we started on a high and 675 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: finished kind of on a low. But it's all interesting. 676 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: It's all interesting, and just quickly back to something momentarily 677 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 1: more positive. Thirty seconds. So, how did the Australian handballers go? 678 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: There were no Australian handballs Australia for an Olympics in 679 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 2: a pink fit honestly, Oh really, So there's I think 680 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 2: there's sixteen countries make it qualify to the Olympics, and 681 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 2: the qualification pathways very long and through various pathways. Australia 682 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 2: would have almost zero hope of it. We were there 683 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 2: in two thousand because we're the host country, and we'll 684 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 2: be there in twenty thirty two because we'll be the 685 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,719 Speaker 2: host country. But that'll be baud it. I'd say, all right, 686 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,399 Speaker 2: might appreciate you as year later.