WEBVTT - The last path forward to Treaty

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven Am.

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<v Speaker 1>The call for treaty in this country stems as far

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<v Speaker 1>back as European settlement. Now in Victoria, for the first time,

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<v Speaker 1>First Nations people are sitting down with the government on

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<v Speaker 1>an equal playing field to negotiate. It's a nation leading

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<v Speaker 1>step towards justice, but it's under threat. After the failed

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<v Speaker 1>Voice referendum last year, the Victorian opposition has followed the

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland playbook and withdrawn their support. It casts an ominous

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<v Speaker 1>shadow over the process, one in which First Nations people

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<v Speaker 1>are once again being asked to act in good faith

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<v Speaker 1>with the power structures that have oppressed many for so long. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>Order Order journalist and my seven Am co host Daniel

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<v Speaker 1>James on the promise of Victoria's treaties. It's Monday now, Daniel.

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<v Speaker 1>You've been working on this story as formal treaty negotiations

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<v Speaker 1>begin in Victoria and this moment, it's a historic moment.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me a bit about the journey to

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<v Speaker 1>get here, because it's been a long time, hasn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>So the formal process of treaty has been in place

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<v Speaker 2>for about five years, but it stems much further than that.

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<v Speaker 2>It stems right back as far as eighteen thirty five,

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<v Speaker 2>when the Anti family first reached what is now known

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<v Speaker 2>as Portland and settled there for the first time, the

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<v Speaker 2>first European settlement in Victoria as we now know it.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to remember that Victoria was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>most populated paths of the continent before European arrival, and

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<v Speaker 2>the place was pretty much decimated within the space of

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<v Speaker 2>fifty years. Things like small pox, massacres, removal of land,

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<v Speaker 2>poisoning of water, disruption of waterways had a significant impact

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<v Speaker 2>on the population here. And so the formal movement really

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<v Speaker 2>commenced in Crinder, which was an Aboriginal mission just outside

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<v Speaker 2>of Melbourne, where people like William Barrack organized petitions, marched

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<v Speaker 2>and tried to represent their community for better conditions. My

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<v Speaker 2>own people up at Maloga Yorder, Yorder there were a

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<v Speaker 2>series of protests, but I'm also a letter written to

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<v Speaker 2>governors of New South Wales and governors of Victoria, just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to get parcels of land for our own people.

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<v Speaker 3>On Warren Jerry Woy Warren Country a display of the

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<v Speaker 3>enduring connection to land and culture. It's an historic first

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<v Speaker 3>for Australia negotiations for a legal agreement between a state

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<v Speaker 3>and its indigenous people.

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<v Speaker 4>Treaties are a bridge not just between us and the state,

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<v Speaker 4>but between the past and the future.

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<v Speaker 3>Treaty seen as an opportunity for truth telling that Aboriginal nations.

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<v Speaker 1>There's been a truth telling process as well, hasn't there

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<v Speaker 1>happening alongside preparations for treaty? So can you tell me

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<v Speaker 1>a bit about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you often hear the phrase that can't be treaty

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<v Speaker 2>without truth. And so in Victoria they established the Yurok

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<v Speaker 2>Justice Commission, which has the powers of a royal commission

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<v Speaker 2>to get written testimony, call witnesses, get access to government documents,

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<v Speaker 2>get access to archives and historical documents. And there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a huge array of different people provide testimony before that commission,

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<v Speaker 2>from the Police Commissioner who appeared before the Commission and

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<v Speaker 2>apologized to Aboriginal people for any harm done by Victorian

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<v Speaker 2>police since colonization, to the Henty family who were the

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<v Speaker 2>first family to settle in Victoria and commit crimes against

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<v Speaker 2>original people, all the way through to our Premier Jacenter Allen.

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<v Speaker 5>I did not know of the massacres. I'm ashamed to

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<v Speaker 5>say I did not. I have learned about the size

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<v Speaker 5>and scale of the murders and the massacres.

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<v Speaker 2>Who appeared earlier this year and was very frank and

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<v Speaker 2>very open about her lack of knowledge of what happened here.

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<v Speaker 5>And it brings me a sense of shame and distress

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<v Speaker 5>that this was done. This was done by people taking

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<v Speaker 5>all in the pursuit of taking land of first peoples.

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<v Speaker 2>So that europe Justice Commission feeds into the treaty process.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'll also have on the record forevermore what happened here,

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<v Speaker 2>and that will be hopefully available in schools and any

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<v Speaker 2>part of society that wants to learn about what happened here.

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<v Speaker 2>We now have a record what happened here.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So a lot of work, a lot of determination

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<v Speaker 1>to get to this point. The First People's Assembly of

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria have played a crucial role as well. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>tell me a bit about them and what the Assembly

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<v Speaker 1>has achieved.

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<v Speaker 2>The First People's Assembly of Victoria is a body that

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<v Speaker 2>represents traditional owner groups. They represent Aboriginal people from different

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<v Speaker 2>backgrounds from around the country that happened to be residing

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<v Speaker 2>in Victoria now. They were established about five years ago

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<v Speaker 2>and all this stems back to the Andrews government coming

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<v Speaker 2>into power around twenty fourteen, and when Daniel Andrews said yep,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, let's do a treaty. It took us aback

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit. But there has been a tremendous amount

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<v Speaker 2>of effort and work to get these formal structures in

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<v Speaker 2>place and to make sure that when we hit the

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<v Speaker 2>point of negotiating treaties, which started last week, that it's

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<v Speaker 2>an even playing field. So obviously the Crown is going

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<v Speaker 2>to have a tremendous amount of access to lawyers and

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<v Speaker 2>other legal agents. The same will be available to the

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<v Speaker 2>First People's Assembly. So there are thirty three members to

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<v Speaker 2>the Assembly. There are two co chairpersons, Rubenberg and Gara Murray,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've spoken to them recently about the way forward.

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<v Speaker 6>So we've got myself and Niagara as the co chairs,

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<v Speaker 6>and then we've also gotten to readA Wait yep, and

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<v Speaker 6>Indy Clark and Troy McDonald, so we're kind of spearheading things.

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<v Speaker 6>But all decisions come back to the whole chamber. It's

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<v Speaker 6>all thirty three that are involved in the discision.

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<v Speaker 7>You can't have thirty three people in the room negotiate.

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<v Speaker 6>That would be problematic, and the state has their team.

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<v Speaker 6>We expect the Premier will be involved in the discussions

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<v Speaker 6>as appropriate, as well as the minister Minister Hutchins, and

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<v Speaker 6>then there's a bunch of public servants, yes, sit alongside that.

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<v Speaker 6>We'll bring to the table. What we've heard are the

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<v Speaker 6>aspirations and it's a negotiation. You have to sit down

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<v Speaker 6>and have the discussion, which is really about self determination.

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<v Speaker 6>If there are key decisions about First peoples that need

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<v Speaker 6>to be made from a government lens, it shouldn't necessarily

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<v Speaker 6>be a minister who makes those decisions, should be elected

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<v Speaker 6>representatives of first people's making those decisions. So that's at

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<v Speaker 6>the very high level. If we look at some of

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<v Speaker 6>those kind of more practical outcomes, one idea we've heard

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<v Speaker 6>really strongly is around how do we make sure we're

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<v Speaker 6>supporting our elders. If you look at something like the

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<v Speaker 6>Seniors Card, which for the broader community have to be

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<v Speaker 6>sixty to access that, well, we only have limited access

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<v Speaker 6>to that if we have shorter life expectancy, so we

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<v Speaker 6>should have access to that earlier. How elders should be

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<v Speaker 6>able to access that earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually really a weird sort of paradigm because it's

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<v Speaker 2>not a place that Aboriginal people, particularly here in Victoria,

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<v Speaker 2>are used to having. We're not used to being able

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<v Speaker 2>to have access to that sort of power, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>what treaty is all about.

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<v Speaker 1>After the break the forces trying to tear treaties apart, Daniel,

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<v Speaker 1>like other Conservative parties across the country, most notably in Queensland,

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<v Speaker 1>the Victorian State Opposition have said that they will now

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<v Speaker 1>not support a treaty. So how are the First People's

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<v Speaker 1>Assembly dealing with that as they enter into these negotiations.

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<v Speaker 2>They are sad and by the Victorian Opposition here walking

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<v Speaker 2>away from it. There was bipartisan support for treaty for

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<v Speaker 2>a long time here, but on the back of the

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<v Speaker 2>referee theum it seems that the Liberal National parties seem

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<v Speaker 2>that there's some sort of semblance of political capital to

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<v Speaker 2>be gained by this, but for the Assembly of themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>They are hoping to include and speak to all members

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<v Speaker 2>of Parliament, including the opposition, as they move forward. When

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<v Speaker 2>I spoke to the co chairs last week, the Gara

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<v Speaker 2>Murray was also very honest and cognizant of the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that this is something that is hanging over the's head.

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<v Speaker 4>I feel sad. And when I look far to see

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<v Speaker 4>what's happening in Queensland for example, and even with maur

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<v Speaker 4>brothers and sisters, and seeing what's happening there today, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>within their parliament. But I think we're in a really

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<v Speaker 4>strong position to commend treating negotiations. But that's always in

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<v Speaker 4>our mind, I think, because we're often news as a

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<v Speaker 4>political football, we're often politicized.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, but what is the risk here if we look

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<v Speaker 1>ahead to the next Victorian election. I mean, is there

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<v Speaker 1>a chance that things could fall apart and all of

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<v Speaker 1>this work that has been done in good faith could

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<v Speaker 1>be in vain.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes. Unfortunately, it means that essentially that for people who

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<v Speaker 2>care about this, the next state election becomes another referendum

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<v Speaker 2>on treaty and truth telling in Victoria. So that' only

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<v Speaker 2>just walking away from the process. The Liberal National Party,

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<v Speaker 2>they're actually going to use it as a point of

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<v Speaker 2>difference as they move into the next election. And so

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<v Speaker 2>with the backing of the Herald Satan Sky News, which

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<v Speaker 2>broadcasts across regional Victoria, the scare campaign against treaty will

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<v Speaker 2>lift the profile of Nationals across the state in particular,

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<v Speaker 2>and if it's anything like the referendum debate, it's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be toxic and ugly. More than that, people will

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<v Speaker 2>get hurt, very hurt by this. Those who live through

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<v Speaker 2>the referendum know how painful it can be. And we

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<v Speaker 2>need to also remember, by the time of the next election,

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<v Speaker 2>the Labor government here would have been in power for

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<v Speaker 2>twelve years and so Australian political history tells us that

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<v Speaker 2>that's reaching the limit of ten years for governments in

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<v Speaker 2>this country. And so there are a number of things

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<v Speaker 2>stacked against treaty. There is the political opposition to it,

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<v Speaker 2>but there's also the political reality of what happens to

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<v Speaker 2>governments who have been around that long. And that means

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<v Speaker 2>that while negotiations will continue over the next two years,

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<v Speaker 2>what happens beyond the next election, depending who wins it,

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<v Speaker 2>is unknown.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so there's a real chance of a change in

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<v Speaker 1>government which would have a definitive impact on what happens

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<v Speaker 1>to the treaty negotiations going forward. But I want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit more about what you said around

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<v Speaker 1>the debate, the sort of the toxic debate that we

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<v Speaker 1>saw in the lead up to the vote on a

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<v Speaker 1>voice to Parliament federally, if we see something similar to

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<v Speaker 1>that in Victoria in the lead up to the next election,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the impact of that likely to be on

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<v Speaker 1>relations between First Nations people and Victoria and the people

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<v Speaker 1>who represent them.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I lived through the Marboe debate and the Scare

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<v Speaker 2>campaign related to that, and then of course we all

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<v Speaker 2>lived through the referendum debate last year, which was kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like Marboe on steroids in terms of the tone

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<v Speaker 2>of conversations about Aboriginal people, largely not too or with

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<v Speaker 2>Aboriginal people. If the refereendum resulved in destroy the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of reconciliation in Vittoria, then the closing down of the

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<v Speaker 2>truth and treaty process will people have come forward shared

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<v Speaker 2>their stories, many of them very very painful stories. They've

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<v Speaker 2>shared their experiences with the same authorities that may have

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<v Speaker 2>caused them harm in the first place, and the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that they've done that shows how deeply these people care

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<v Speaker 2>and are committed to this process. So to scrap all

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<v Speaker 2>of it, to scrap a potential new way forward would

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<v Speaker 2>break a lot of hearts and do irreparable damage to

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<v Speaker 2>reconciliation here. And I would argue around the country as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and that means that all the good faith that First

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<v Speaker 2>Nations people have put into this process will have been lost.

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<v Speaker 2>If this was to be successful in Victoria, it would

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<v Speaker 2>be the first time that there has been true self

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<v Speaker 2>determination by with and for Aboriginal people anywhere in the country,

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<v Speaker 2>acted body that will oversee things that impact us impact

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<v Speaker 2>First Nations people in Victoria. If that doesn't work, then

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<v Speaker 2>it gives all the cynics and all the people that

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<v Speaker 2>are skeptical about self determination the excuse that they need

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<v Speaker 2>never to go there again.

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<v Speaker 7>And I would argue that it would.

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<v Speaker 2>Make having a national treaty almost impossible in most.

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<v Speaker 7>Of our lifetimes.

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<v Speaker 2>It would just feeding to the narrative that we've had

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<v Speaker 2>around the voice that First Nations people are just Australians

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<v Speaker 2>like everyone else, and then don't deserve anything beyond what

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the country are given, despite what has

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<v Speaker 2>happened to them.

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<v Speaker 7>In the name of the Crown.

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<v Speaker 1>Precarious times ahead, Daniel bit Nerve Racking, thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for your time today.

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<v Speaker 7>Thanks Reby.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news today, the five remaining Bali nine

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<v Speaker 1>prisoners in Indonesia will be transferred to Australia within months.

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<v Speaker 1>The Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi asked Indonesia's new President, Probo

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<v Speaker 1>Subianto to transfer the convicted drug traffickers to Australia when

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<v Speaker 1>he met with him on the sidelines of the APEC

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<v Speaker 1>conference in Peru. Two of the Ballei nine, Andrew chan

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<v Speaker 1>and Major and Sukamaran, were executed by firing squad in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen in Indonesia after multiple attempts to save their

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<v Speaker 1>lives were rejected. Another member died in prison, and one

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<v Speaker 1>has already been brought back to Australia. Cabinet Minister Don

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<v Speaker 1>Farrell says the remaining prisoners will continue to serve their

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<v Speaker 1>life sentences on return to Australia, and laws to force

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<v Speaker 1>social media companies to deal with misinformation on their platform

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<v Speaker 1>have been scrapped by the government. The Communications Minister Michelle

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<v Speaker 1>Roland has confirmedment failed to get support for the bill

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<v Speaker 1>from the Coalition at Greens and several cross Bench senators.

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<v Speaker 1>Mss Roland said the bill would have dealt with harmful content,

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<v Speaker 1>but the coalition described it as an attempt to CeNSE

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<v Speaker 1>the speech. I'm Ruby Jones, this is seven am. See

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<v Speaker 1>you tomorrow,