Speaker 1: Sharing good evening. Will we start tonight with the breaking
Speaker 1: news that Labor Senator Fatima Payman, who defied Labor by
Speaker 1: crossing the floor to support the Greens on Gaza, will
Speaker 1: not be expelled from the party. An Albanesi spokesperson has
Speaker 1: told us that the senator says she maintains strong labor
Speaker 1: values and intends to continue representing the Western Australians who
Speaker 1: elected her as a Labor senator. There is no manated
Speaker 1: sanction in these circumstances, and previous caucus members have crossed
Speaker 1: the floor without facing expulsion. As reflected in our amendment,
Speaker 1: the government supports the recognition of a Palestinian state as
Speaker 1: part of a peace process towards a two state solution.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to come back to just how weak
Speaker 1: Albanesi is in a minute, but first to recap just
Speaker 1: this evening. Fatima payment has backed the Green's motion to
Speaker 1: recognize a state of palestein a move that only rewards
Speaker 1: her MUSS for its terrorism of October seven. And here
Speaker 1: she was speaking after the vote. I was not.
Speaker 2: Elected as a token representative of diversity. I was elected
Speaker 2: to serve the people of Western Australia and uphold the
Speaker 2: values instilled in me by my late father. Today I
Speaker 2: have made a decision that would make him proud and
Speaker 2: make everyone proud who are on the side of humanity.
Speaker 2: That is a prerogative for my party. I believe that
Speaker 2: I have upheld the party ethos and called for what
Speaker 2: the party's platform has stipulated.
Speaker 1: Now, other Labor politicians have been expelled in the past
Speaker 1: for crossing the floor, clearly an exception for Fatima Payment,
Speaker 1: and she showed utter contempt for the Prime Minister, taking
Speaker 1: aim at Albansi in her remarks. Now only thirteen Senators
Speaker 1: voted for this Greens bill payment, the Greens David Pocock
Speaker 1: and Lydia Thorpe, and the debate was ugly, with Lydia
Speaker 1: Thorpe yelling about Australia's complicity with so called genocide.
Speaker 2: Order order.
Speaker 3: As Senator thought, I asked you to come to order order.
Speaker 4: Order.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: Fatima Payment is now becoming well known for her anti
Speaker 1: Israel campaign at odds with official Labor Party policy. So
Speaker 1: despite Albanezy saying that the chance from the River to
Speaker 1: the Sea and into Fada had no place in Australia,
Speaker 1: Fatima refused to acknowledge that they were anti Semitic or inappropriate.
Speaker 1: This is a genocide.
Speaker 2: I see our performatively gesture defending the oppressor's right to
Speaker 2: oppress from the revetivis Palestine will be free.
Speaker 1: She's also praised activists who've set up encampments at universities,
Speaker 1: despite the fact they've resulted in Jewish students being harassed
Speaker 1: and intimidated. Many Jews feel unwelcome, with activists posting videos
Speaker 1: proudly online about chasing Zionists of campus, and just last week,
Speaker 1: Fatima Payman wrote an opinion piece in Al Jazeera where
Speaker 1: she called for Palestinian state without once mentioning her mus
Speaker 1: the October seven atrocities or the one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: hostages who are still cruelly held captive in Gaza. Now,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned, Labor Party policy has in the past
Speaker 1: meant that those who've crossed the floor are expelled. But
Speaker 1: we know Albani he is a weak leader, and he's
Speaker 1: chosen not to exercise his authority over Fatima payment. He
Speaker 1: still hasn't over Andrew Giles, despite scandals that should have
Speaker 1: seen him sacked multiple times over. The danger for Albanezi
Speaker 1: is that now that he's allowed Payment to cross the
Speaker 1: floor without consequence. He's effectively giving the green light to
Speaker 1: other politicians to do so in many other policy areas,
Speaker 1: from nuclear energy to a judicial inquiry into anti Semitism. Now,
Speaker 1: like I've said many times, we all want peace. No
Speaker 1: one wants this war. This war was forced on Israel
Speaker 1: when Hermas stole two hundred and fifty innocent people, including babies,
Speaker 1: young children, and teenage girls. Hamas is the governing body
Speaker 1: in Gaza, and it started this war when it brutally
Speaker 1: murdered more then one two hundred innocent civilians. Hamas could
Speaker 1: end this war immediately if it returned all of the
Speaker 1: hostages and surrendered. But the way to end this war
Speaker 1: isn't to reward the terrorists by giving them their own state.
Speaker 1: The suggestion is pure lunacy, and while ultimately there absolutely
Speaker 1: should be a two state solution, there can be no
Speaker 1: Palestinian state until a responsible governing body leads the Palestinian
Speaker 1: people to recognize a Palestinian state. Now, as the green suggests,
Speaker 1: as Fatima Payment wants to do, it turns the terrorists
Speaker 1: into freedom fighters. It turns October seven into Palestinian independent state,
Speaker 1: and it only sets back the prospect of peace by
Speaker 1: emboldening and strengthening the arm of the barbaric terrorists. Well,
Speaker 1: now let's turn to Juliana sanch who is today being
Speaker 1: celebrated by the Unions, the Greens, and the Teals as
Speaker 1: a hero journalist, when in reality he's an irresponsible traitor
Speaker 1: who risked the lives of American sources working in high
Speaker 1: risk war zones and oppressive regimes. There's no question Assange
Speaker 1: broke the law, but today he was released from prison
Speaker 1: in a plea deal done with the US. Assange has
Speaker 1: left the UK and flown to the Northern Mariana Islands
Speaker 1: where he'll sign the deal that'll see him walk free.
Speaker 1: He had been charged with conspiracy to obtain and disclose
Speaker 1: national defense information after publishing trobes of classified national security
Speaker 1: documents that related to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. That
Speaker 1: was back in twenty ten. There was no attempt by
Speaker 1: Assange to sip through the documents to protect the identities
Speaker 1: of sources, servicemen and women who are already risking their
Speaker 1: lives for the sake of our collective national security. And
Speaker 1: it's this that separates Assange from the occupation. I love journalism.
Speaker 1: Journalism is a commitment to the truth, but it requires
Speaker 1: careful and responsible investigation. It's not a careless document dump.
Speaker 1: Journalists are also not captured by government propaganda, and they
Speaker 1: don't confuse bloodthirsty terrorists with freedom fighters. Assange is nobody's hero,
Speaker 1: as long term editor Alan Howe notes, recklessly dumping classified
Speaker 1: correspondence on a website is regarded by journalism as journalism
Speaker 1: by nobody. Assange describes himself as a journalist, editor, and publisher.
Speaker 1: He is neither a journalist nor an editor trained as either.
Speaker 1: He would have handled his infamous leaks more responsibly, but
Speaker 1: he is certainly a publisher in the manner that so
Speaker 1: is anyone who posts a photograph of their kids on
Speaker 1: social media. Yet Assange won the Gold Walkley, journalism's highest honor,
Speaker 1: for what for stolen classified documents. When he was on
Speaker 1: the run from the US, he was accused of being
Speaker 1: captured by the Kremlin. He even became a propaganda tool
Speaker 1: for Putin. Assange had a show on the Kremlin controlled
Speaker 1: Russian state television where his first guest was a leader
Speaker 1: of the jew hating terror group Hezbla. Assange described this
Speaker 1: terrorist as a freedom fighter, and it was hardly a
Speaker 1: tough interview. The Guardian reported at the time that the
Speaker 1: questions were clearly agreed in advance, some were softball, others fawning,
Speaker 1: with Nasrala's answers unchallenged, and The Guardian, the left leaning publication,
Speaker 1: by the way, strongly criticized Assange over this. They wrote,
Speaker 1: the mystery is why Assange should agree to become a
Speaker 1: pawn in the Kremlin's global information war. It seems extraordinary
Speaker 1: that Assange, described by RT that's Russian television as the
Speaker 1: world's most famous whistleblower, should team up with an opaque
Speaker 1: regime where investigative journalists are shot dead and human rights
Speaker 1: activists kidnapped and executed, especially in Chechnya and other Southern
Speaker 1: Muslim republics. Strange and obscene, That's the Guardian. Assange's values
Speaker 1: are compromised, confused, and his journalism, if you can call
Speaker 1: it that and I don't, is closer to anti Western
Speaker 1: propaganda than genuinely investigative. Despite his history, there's now a
Speaker 1: bipartisan view that he's done his time, and he probably has,
Speaker 1: and thanks to the plea deal with the US, he'll
Speaker 1: now walk free. Unsurprisingly, the Greens and the radical Left
Speaker 1: was celebrating today.
Speaker 6: There is no power on earth that can hold back
Speaker 6: truth when its time has come, and I want to
Speaker 6: pay enormous tribute to the courage of Julian Assange who
Speaker 6: stood his ground.
Speaker 7: Nissange has been a member of our union that the
Speaker 7: Media Entertainment Arts Alliance since two thousand and seven.
Speaker 3: His persistence and his commitment to the truth is what has.
Speaker 4: Got him out of that detention, and I.
Speaker 8: Think it's something that should be celebrated.
Speaker 3: Prime Minister.
Speaker 1: Is Julian Assange only coming home? Can you bear it?
Speaker 1: And Albin Easy himself took credit for the move.
Speaker 9: I've been very clear as both the Labor leader in
Speaker 9: opposition but also as Prime Minister that regardless of the
Speaker 9: views that people have about mister Osane's activities, the case
Speaker 9: has dragged.
Speaker 8: On for too long.
Speaker 9: There's nothing to be gained by his continued incarceration and
Speaker 9: we want him brought home to Australia and we have
Speaker 9: engaged and advocated Australia's interests using all appropriate channels to
Speaker 9: support a positive outcome, and I've done that since very
Speaker 9: early on in my prime ministership.
Speaker 1: Coalition Politician said it was good that this saga was
Speaker 1: finally coming to an end.
Speaker 10: We welcome that this saga has been brought to an
Speaker 10: end after a very long period of time. We welcome
Speaker 10: the guilty play which has allowed this deal to be reached.
Speaker 8: Personally, and I think now is the time to move on.
Speaker 8: But obviously I wouldn't be making him into any great saint. Ultimately,
Speaker 8: he put lives at risk. No lives were lost, but
Speaker 8: he did put lives at risk.
Speaker 1: Now, some Republicans today welcomed the Assige plea deal, but
Speaker 1: former US Vice President Mike Pence said that Assigne endangered
Speaker 1: the lives of our troops in a time of war
Speaker 1: and should have been prosecuted to the fullest extent of
Speaker 1: the law. He said, the Biden administration's plea deal with
Speaker 1: Assange is a miscarriage of justice and dishonors the service
Speaker 1: and sacrifice of the men and women of our armed
Speaker 1: forces and their families. There should be no plea deals
Speaker 1: to avoid prison for anyone that endangers the security of
Speaker 1: our military or the national security of the United States.
Speaker 1: Ever well as usual in the US, this wasn't simply
Speaker 1: a matter of the law or justice, but a question
Speaker 1: of politics.
Speaker 11: Now.
Speaker 12: If you're wondering why this has moved politically in the
Speaker 12: United States, it has become something of a course celebrity
Speaker 12: for libertarians, and they are shaping up to be a
Speaker 12: powerful vote at this election because both sides are losing
Speaker 12: supporters in favor of RFK.
Speaker 1: Junior An RFK celebrated the news today, while libertarian journalist
Speaker 1: Adam Crichton also said that Asian should be awarded for
Speaker 1: services to the truth. It's a take I strongly disagree with,
Speaker 1: although Adam will be expressing his view tonight on the show.
Speaker 1: This recasting of Assange as a truth telling hero is
Speaker 1: a fantasy when the reality is that Assange is a complicated, dark, twisted,
Speaker 1: and disturbed individual. As Michael Weiss wrote in The Atlantic
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, in the end, the man who reportedly
Speaker 1: smeared feces on the walls of his lodgings, mistreated his kitten,
Speaker 1: and variously blamed the ills of the world on feminists
Speaker 1: and bespeckled Jewish writers was pulled from the Ecuadorian embassy,
Speaker 1: looking every inch like a powdered sugar Saddam Hussein plucked
Speaker 1: straight from his spider hole. Now while we all want
Speaker 1: this saga to be over. Adam Crichton reports that Assange
Speaker 1: may reveal further secrets once his plea deal is signed.
Speaker 1: So it seems this perverted megalomoniac with a victim mentality
Speaker 1: will be free to unleash further anti Western propaganda and
Speaker 1: mayhem onto the world. And both Alan Howe and Adam
Speaker 1: Crichton will join me tonight on the show. To Alan Howe,
Speaker 1: Assigne is a winger. To Adam Crichton, he's a hero.
Speaker 1: They will debate this that's coming up. Also tonight, Clovermore
Speaker 1: moves to boycott Israel linked companies from the city of Sydney.
Speaker 1: If this is the only thing that could have made
Speaker 1: me dislike her more than I already did. But first,
Speaker 1: now let's go to tonight's panel National ZMP Keith Pitt
Speaker 1: and former Speaker of the House Bishop Welcome to you both. Look,
Speaker 1: let's start with this news tonight of Labor Senator Fatima
Speaker 1: Payment crossing the floor. Bronwin, what's your reaction to how
Speaker 1: she has sided with the Greens and also Albanese's weakness
Speaker 1: and not moving on.
Speaker 11: Her, Well, it just highlights the weakness she has defied
Speaker 11: the Prime Minister on what three occasions, now with the
Speaker 11: rivet of the Sea repetition and clearly in crossing the
Speaker 11: floor toot with the Greens on this motion. Now, the
Speaker 11: Labor Party people take a pledge, they take a pledge
Speaker 11: that they will be bound by the collective decision of
Speaker 11: the caucus. And that's why you have the perception that
Speaker 11: it is around that if they cross the floor they'll
Speaker 11: be expelled. If you look at the facts, people have
Speaker 11: been suspended subsequently lose their pres election, not expelled. But
Speaker 11: in this case, despite what Senator had to say today
Speaker 11: about tokenism, she is a token senator and she's treated
Speaker 11: like a token senator and the result of that is
Speaker 11: to make the primary to look even weaker because it's
Speaker 11: all about protecting the numbers in the seats where there
Speaker 11: are large Muslim voters in Western Sydney.
Speaker 1: Well, she says she's not a token senator. She says
Speaker 1: she's not confined. She'll stand up for what she believes in.
Speaker 1: And Keith, that's fair enough. We have freedom of speech
Speaker 1: in this country. But it has been a long time,
Speaker 1: I think over twenty years since someone has crossed the
Speaker 1: floor in the Labor Party. They do have rules around this,
Speaker 1: So could it now be a green light? Could it
Speaker 1: now be a free for all for any Labor politician
Speaker 1: to cross the floor.
Speaker 7: A sharing The Labor Party don't have just rules, it
Speaker 7: is iron bound. They do not allow their people to
Speaker 7: make their own decisions. In fact, even when they have
Speaker 7: a ballot, they have their union overlords standing next to
Speaker 7: them to make sure that they vote goes in the
Speaker 7: correct way. So this is incredibly brave by Fatima. I
Speaker 7: absolutely disagree with her completely and wholeheartedly. But on my
Speaker 7: side of politics, shari obedience is not a learned skill.
Speaker 7: I mean, we welcome people having views. Of course we
Speaker 7: want to see unity. If you remember the ministry, it's
Speaker 7: a requirement under the Westminster system that you will support
Speaker 7: the decision, but you get your sigh around the big table,
Speaker 7: particular if you're in cabinet. But I think this is
Speaker 7: a real problem for Anthony Albanezi. If he has lost
Speaker 7: control of what is union managed and union run members
Speaker 7: of Parliament, then that says everything about this Prime minister's
Speaker 7: leadership and Bromin is exactly right. It demonstrates even further weakness.
Speaker 1: And let's see.
Speaker 7: What happens in the next few days. But I think
Speaker 7: Fatima will find herself on the outside of the Labor
Speaker 7: Party very very quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Well, I mean the problem is that
Speaker 1: many in the Labor Party probably agree with her. There
Speaker 1: might be others who are in bold and to cross
Speaker 1: the flora as well. Bromb and Bishop. Let's turn to
Speaker 1: the reaction to Juliana Sanche's release today, or at least
Speaker 1: he's free from prison, expected to sign the plea deal.
Speaker 1: What do you think of what I've had to say
Speaker 1: about a Sanche?
Speaker 11: Well, I agree with very much with much of what
Speaker 11: you had to say. He's no hero to me, and
Speaker 11: I've never had much sympathy for him. However, when I
Speaker 11: see the way that the United States judicial system has
Speaker 11: been corrupted, when we look at the Trump trial and
Speaker 11: the way that Biden was treated differently on questions of
Speaker 11: secret papers, I would not want to see him surrendered
Speaker 11: into the jurisdiction of the United States without that plea deal,
Speaker 11: because I just think that what the United States has
Speaker 11: done with the way it has gone after Trump, has
Speaker 11: shown that you cannot trust their system and be fearful
Speaker 11: of it. So my attitude is he is no hero,
Speaker 11: but I wouldn't surrender him to that system. Next thing
Speaker 11: we've got to, however, contemplate, is where and what is
Speaker 11: he going to do now? Is he going to turn
Speaker 11: up on the ABC is or a host or whatever?
Speaker 11: Is he going to be paraded and lorded? Is a
Speaker 11: great hero of the left? Probably all of the above.
Speaker 11: So we have a problem that is going to have
Speaker 11: to be dealt with, and that's why it was important
Speaker 11: that you gave all the detail tonight that you did,
Speaker 11: because a lot of it is skimmed over.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Keith Pitt, what do you think are you expecting
Speaker 1: the Greens and others the ABC to celebrate Assange if
Speaker 1: he does come to Australia.
Speaker 7: I'm sure there'll be a great celebration by mister Assangeony's supporters,
Speaker 7: But it's not a decision about his criminality. This is
Speaker 7: simply about his Australian citizenship and what it stands for
Speaker 7: for every Australian. I don't care whether it's mister Assange
Speaker 7: or others. Fourteen years this matter should have been resolved
Speaker 7: and I think that's the key point. But I've seen
Speaker 7: your commentary and I know what you're sending your editorial
Speaker 7: shower and you make some very very strong points and
Speaker 7: to my mind, none of that has been determined, decided
Speaker 7: or even seen as part of the outcome. But we
Speaker 7: can't have Australian citizens who are locked up for indetermined
Speaker 7: amounts of time, and the Australian government does have a
Speaker 7: role to play to get those issues resolved. So yes,
Speaker 7: I think there'll be a celebration by mister Sangres supporters,
Speaker 7: but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's guilty or not guilty.
Speaker 1: All right, well let's turn to Matt Keen. He's made
Speaker 1: news this week. Of course, I'm Bronnan Bishop. I'm keen
Speaker 1: to hear your view on this. Do you think he
Speaker 1: was a traitor?
Speaker 11: Yes, and good riddance to bad rubbish. I mean, this
Speaker 11: is a man who was nobody who became a member
Speaker 11: of parliament, became in powerful positions in a Liberal government.
Speaker 11: He was there because he was put there by the
Speaker 11: Liberal Party. He otherwise was a nobody. But as I've
Speaker 11: said very often in his politics, Malcolm Turnbull was the
Speaker 11: organ grinder, Matt King was the monkey, and so ALBINIZI
Speaker 11: has appointed the monkey to the job.
Speaker 1: Very close relationship Turnbull and macan very close still see
Speaker 1: whether Matt Kean tries to work for Turnbull in some capacity.
Speaker 11: I think he probably will. I don't know this new
Speaker 11: job pays all that much.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll have to see whether it is or isn't
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest, but probably Labor wouldn't care about that, Keith.
Speaker 1: Not even the Greens welcomed Matt Kean's appointment today despite
Speaker 1: the fact that his renewable energy targets, his emissions targets
Speaker 1: are basically as high as the Greens. I mean, he's
Speaker 1: supported a seventy percent emissions reduction target, Shari.
Speaker 7: If it wasn't for the fact that it's unlawful and
Speaker 7: on you, mister Kane was looking for a while and
Speaker 7: or to pass the hat around to getting gone a
Speaker 7: lot earlier that.
Speaker 1: The other problem.
Speaker 7: Here is all of the decisions that he's made previously
Speaker 7: are now tainted on what basis were they made. It
Speaker 7: was easily acting because at heart he's a true Labor believer,
Speaker 7: and to have the Greens his appointment, well that says
Speaker 7: a lot because it takes quite a lot of effort
Speaker 7: for the Greens not to support an appointment like that,
Speaker 7: and ultimately the people of New South Wales and Australia
Speaker 7: are going to pay the price. He was one of
Speaker 7: the ones who shut down expansion of the coal sector
Speaker 7: in New South Wales, intermittent wind and solar zones which
Speaker 7: are just devastating regional areas of New South Wales. And
Speaker 7: you can't run this country on part time power, and
Speaker 7: that is what mister Keane supports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just very very quickly, Branwyn, do you think he
Speaker 1: should be expelled from the Liberal Party. He won't be.
Speaker 1: I know he won't be. Do you think he should
Speaker 1: be if.
Speaker 11: It causes great drama and reflects away from the important
Speaker 11: message that Peter Dutton is putting forward. I wouldn't be bothered, all.
Speaker 1: Right, Fromwan Bishop Keith Pitt, thank you both very much
Speaker 1: for your time. Now coming up, in another outrageous attempt
Speaker 1: by a Clover Moore to stamp out common sense and
Speaker 1: endorse racism, the City of Sydney moves to boycott Israeli products.
Speaker 1: Shatow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson would join me to
Speaker 1: discuss this and his reaction to Fatima payment crossing the floor.
Speaker 1: Welcome back. Well, let's bring in shadow Home Affairs Minister
Speaker 1: now James Patterson, James, good to see you. Look, let's
Speaker 1: start with tonight's breaking news. The Albanesi government has said,
Speaker 1: or the Prime Minister's office has said, that he's not
Speaker 1: going to expel Fatima payment from the Labor Party, despite
Speaker 1: her crossing the floor to support the Greens on their
Speaker 1: motion to recognize a state of Palestine emotion that only
Speaker 1: rewards her muss for the terrorism of October seven. But again,
Speaker 1: this is Albanesi not exercising any authority over the party.
Speaker 1: What's your reaction to firstly this Greens motion and also
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister's response to it.
Speaker 10: We'll Scharie. It was a typically divisive stunt by the
Speaker 10: Greens which shouldn't have been entertained by any person of
Speaker 10: goodwill towards the Israel Palestine issue, and it's extraordinary that
Speaker 10: a Labor backbencher decided to vote for it. Make no mistake,
Speaker 10: this is another very big test of the Prime Minister's
Speaker 10: leadership and one that looks like he's set to fail.
Speaker 10: This is a direct challenge to his authority as Labor leader,
Speaker 10: and if he fails that, if there are no consequences
Speaker 10: for senator payment, they're not just in your eyes and
Speaker 10: my eyes will be a week will he be a
Speaker 10: week prime Minister? But in the eyes of his own
Speaker 10: caucus members, they'll understand the consequences for a Labor MP
Speaker 10: or senator if they cross the floor. That's very clear.
Speaker 10: No MP or senator has crossed the floor in a
Speaker 10: Labor Prime minister for over thirty years, and the last
Speaker 10: time they did so under Bob Hawk, there were serious
Speaker 10: consequences for them. So if she can get away with this,
Speaker 10: then every other Labor MP and senator will be thinking, well,
Speaker 10: maybe I can get away with this in the future,
Speaker 10: and his authority over the party will be completely shattered.
Speaker 1: If it's not already. Let's return to today's top story,
Speaker 1: Julian Assange walking free. This is now he's now flown
Speaker 1: to a US Ireland where he's going to enter a
Speaker 1: plea deal. We then don't have confirmation of his movements.
Speaker 1: We expect he might return to Australia. Do you support
Speaker 1: this outcome? Say?
Speaker 10: I thought your editorial tonight was very compelling on this issue. Julian. No,
Speaker 10: Sange is no hero, but it is a welcome thing
Speaker 10: that this has finally come to an end. I noted
Speaker 10: has come to an end because misters Sange has finally
Speaker 10: agreed to plead guilty to the charges against him, which
Speaker 10: are very serious national security charges. He could have entered
Speaker 10: into a plea deal at any point during his long incarceration.
Speaker 10: And while it's true, as many people say that this
Speaker 10: has gone on for a long time, the reason why
Speaker 10: it's gone on for a long time is that he
Speaker 10: was evading lawful extradition requests by hiding in the ecuador
Speaker 10: own embassy and then challenging them through every level of
Speaker 10: the UK courts, which is entitled to do so. It
Speaker 10: is welcome it's coming to an end. It is a
Speaker 10: credit to the United States as a rule of law
Speaker 10: democracy that they are showing such leniency towards someone accused
Speaker 10: of such a serious crime. And frankly, it dispels the
Speaker 10: myth of the United States critics that it is such
Speaker 10: an evil raser. And when, frankly, had mister Sience done
Speaker 10: this in Russia, a patron of his, the consequences for
Speaker 10: him would have been much more severe than this.
Speaker 1: Do you think he has actually done his time? I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: he wasn't free, but he hasn't technically been in prison.
Speaker 10: Well, if it's good enough for the US Justice Department.
Speaker 10: That's a matter for them. The crime has committed against
Speaker 10: the United States government and their intelligence secrets, and so
Speaker 10: really that's a matter for them. But no one in
Speaker 10: Australia should make the mistake that he's some sort of
Speaker 10: hero to be celebrated or as you say, a journalist.
Speaker 1: Indeed, now Labour has waded out it's crackdown on vapes
Speaker 1: to gain the support of the Greens. This would see
Speaker 1: vapes available at chemists pharmacies without a prescription. It would
Speaker 1: make Australia the first country to ban their sale outside
Speaker 1: of pharmacies. James, Pharmacists are reportedly outraged. What do you
Speaker 1: think of this deal that Labour has struck over vapes
Speaker 1: with the Greens.
Speaker 6: Area.
Speaker 10: It's a grubby deal that's fallen at the first hurdle.
Speaker 10: The government didn't even bother to consult with the people
Speaker 10: that they expect to participate in it to sell it.
Speaker 10: And if pharmacists refuse to sell vapes then effectively what
Speaker 10: you're having is an extension of the prohibition model, which
Speaker 10: we know has failed. What we need to do with
Speaker 10: vaping is exactly what we've done with cigarettes. Treat it
Speaker 10: as a retail product, strictly regulated sale, put it in
Speaker 10: plane packaging, tax it and spend some of the revenue
Speaker 10: that will gain from that excise as we have proposed
Speaker 10: on a two hundred and fifty million dollar law enforcement
Speaker 10: package with a new task force put stood up by
Speaker 10: the ABF, the Border Force and the Australian Federal Police
Speaker 10: to crack down on this illegal vaping market, but also
Speaker 10: the illegal tobacco market, which has seen rampant gang violence
Speaker 10: across our country, particularly in my home state of Victoria,
Speaker 10: where forty tobacconists in the last year have been set
Speaker 10: on fire or exploded. This is a government that's totally
Speaker 10: failed when it comes to vaping, totally failed when it
Speaker 10: comes to community safety, and we've got a much better
Speaker 10: plan to fix.
Speaker 1: It, all right, James Patterson. Always great to have you
Speaker 1: on the show. Thank you very much. Now, in an
Speaker 1: extraordinary foray into foreign politics, uncalled for foray into foreign politics,
Speaker 1: the City of Sydney Council and its Mayor Clovermore is
Speaker 1: now going to look at counseling contracts with companies linked
Speaker 1: to Israel. The Herald reports that Lord Mayor Clovermore has
Speaker 1: supported a Green's motion last night to audit divestments and
Speaker 1: ensure the Council didn't invest in or profit from so
Speaker 1: called human rights violations, which apparently includes the and I
Speaker 1: quote illegal occupation of the settlements in Palestinian territories and
Speaker 1: the supply of weapons. Meanwhile, anti Semitism is exploding in California.
Speaker 1: Outside a synagogue yesterday there were shocking and terrifying scenes
Speaker 1: of hatred towards Jews. I mean, this footage, if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen it already, is truly despicable. Let's bring in
Speaker 1: now liberal MP Julian, Lisa Julian, thank you very much
Speaker 1: for your time. Look, let's start with those scenes outside
Speaker 1: synagogue in La just yesterday. How upsetting were they? And
Speaker 1: do you think the authorities, I mean, Joe Biden issued
Speaker 1: a statement saying it was reprehensible. The antisemitism isn't on.
Speaker 1: But yet again we're just not seeing the strength of
Speaker 1: law enforcement in LA. It's the same situation here. You're
Speaker 1: absolutely right, Cherry.
Speaker 5: Ever since the seventh of October, the disappointing sense of
Speaker 5: abandonment that Jews have had right across the world, from
Speaker 5: law enforcement agencies, from governments, from university vice chancellors from
Speaker 5: bodies that are set up to deal with racism.
Speaker 1: It's just been extraordinary.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 1: All we want to see.
Speaker 5: Is people to enforce the law so that Jewish people,
Speaker 5: whether they're in America or in this country, can live
Speaker 5: their lives free of harassment and intimidation. And yet to
Speaker 5: people going to a synagogue to protest and cause those
Speaker 5: ugly scenes that you were showing earlier is a very
Speaker 5: distressing thing. As the sort of antisemitic demonstrations that we've
Speaker 5: seen in Australia. It's reminiscent of those drive through, those
Speaker 5: convoys of hate that occurred at the end of last year.
Speaker 5: People drove through suburbs of high Jewish populations in order
Speaker 5: to intimidate people. It's not long.
Speaker 1: You know, everyone can have whatever view they want about
Speaker 1: the war, but when you're attacking Jewish people outside of
Speaker 1: synagogue that's got nothing to do with Israel, that's just Jews,
Speaker 1: and it's just what makes it so terrifying, truly terrifying.
Speaker 1: Now let's turn to clover More and her spot her
Speaker 1: support basically for a boycott of Israel and Israeli products.
Speaker 1: I mean, how can the lord mayor of the city
Speaker 1: of Sydney take such an offensive position.
Speaker 5: Well, Chari, this is someone who's been Lord mayor for
Speaker 5: too long. We've got council elections coming up in a
Speaker 5: few weeks in New South Wales. This is somebody who's
Speaker 5: looking for relevance and this looks like a complete political
Speaker 5: stunt to me. We expect our local councils to be
Speaker 5: engaged in roads, rubbish and rates. We don't expect them
Speaker 5: to make foreign policy.
Speaker 1: It'd be as.
Speaker 5: Silly as us talking about garbage collection here in Canberra.
Speaker 5: And I think Clover Moore and the City of Sydney
Speaker 5: Council have demonstrated while they should play no role in
Speaker 5: foreign policy. What's particularly bad about this motion and this
Speaker 5: whole boycott, devestment and sanctions movement, is that you never
Speaker 5: hear people saying, oh, we should boycott North Korea, or
Speaker 5: we should boycott Russia, or we should boycott to Syria
Speaker 5: when it's committing human rights abuses. It is the singling
Speaker 5: out of Israel. And when you single out Israel and
Speaker 5: you apply a different set of standards to Israel, it
Speaker 5: apply to any other country. That is one of the
Speaker 5: modern manifestations of anti Semitism and I'm sick of seeing
Speaker 5: local councils think that they can dictate the foreign policy
Speaker 5: of this country.
Speaker 1: They can't.
Speaker 5: Clover Moore needs to stick to her knitting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, and I agree with you. Time for her
Speaker 1: to go sixteen years if it's around that, it's enough.
Speaker 1: It's long enough now. There've been reports this week, and
Speaker 1: we covered it here on the show last night as well,
Speaker 1: that some members of the University of Sydney encampment were
Speaker 1: allegedly members of an extreme Islamist group his Bookteria. It's
Speaker 1: not categorized as a terror group in Australia, but it
Speaker 1: is in the UK and elsewhere. The University of Sydney's
Speaker 1: vice Chancellor, Mark Scott made a deal with this fringe group.
Speaker 1: They're now going to be privy to its defense and
Speaker 1: security related research activities online. Julian, you're taking a very
Speaker 1: close interest in the anti Semitism on university campuses. What
Speaker 1: do you make of Mark Scott's capitulation to this extremist
Speaker 1: group and the fact that he hasn't even returned the
Speaker 1: phone cause of Jewish leaders over this matter.
Speaker 5: I think the University of Sydney has treated with the
Speaker 5: Jewish community with absolute contempt, and they've demonstrated that their
Speaker 5: leadership is not fit to run a university. In my view,
Speaker 5: the idea that you would basically capitulate to an organization
Speaker 5: which is listed as a terrorist organization in the United Kingdom,
Speaker 5: an organization which celebrated the seventh of October terrorist attacks,
Speaker 5: an organization which was actually announced the deal that was
Speaker 5: done with Sydney University. It wasn't announced by the Vice Chancellor.
Speaker 5: It was announced by this organization. And at a time
Speaker 5: when we're wanting our best and brightest minds to work
Speaker 5: on AUCUST, and that includes our universities, the idea that
Speaker 5: you would give an organization which is effectively an extremist
Speaker 5: organization the right to run their ruler over every defense
Speaker 5: contract that the University of Sydney has is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: And here we are.
Speaker 5: I think it's the Sydney University basically ruling itself out
Speaker 5: of having any participation in AUCUST by having struck this deal,
Speaker 5: and it is an insult to Jewish Australians who have
Speaker 5: been asking the Vice chancellor for months to deal with
Speaker 5: the encampments on his university. We need to see university
Speaker 5: leaders standing up to this bullying, and this just shows
Speaker 5: the hardier bully, the more you'll get out of Sydney University. Look.
Speaker 1: I played the clip on the show last night of
Speaker 1: that group at their own press conference and they chanted
Speaker 1: Ali Wakhbar about twenty times. No mention of Australia, nothing
Speaker 1: about the Australian anthem. I mean, Julian, you put this
Speaker 1: all together, what we're seeing from Mark Scott, what we're
Speaker 1: seeing from clover More, the lack of action from the
Speaker 1: Albanezy government, you know, the riots outside of synagogue in California.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have any message of hope, because
Speaker 1: I tell you I'm feeling very depressed about all of
Speaker 1: this at the moment.
Speaker 5: Look, Sherry, there's lots of hope out there. What gives
Speaker 5: me hope is the number of people that contact me,
Speaker 5: that stopped me in the street, Academics and university administrators
Speaker 5: from around the country who have been telling me that
Speaker 5: I'm on the right track with my Judicial Inquiry bill,
Speaker 5: that it's the right thing. You know, I think ordinary
Speaker 5: Australians look agast at this. There is this growing sense
Speaker 5: of lawlessness in our country, of which the government's failure
Speaker 5: to deal with anti Semitism is just one species of it.
Speaker 5: Whether it's the knife attacks on clergymen in Western Sydney
Speaker 5: or the knife attacks in Bondi, whether it's the lawlessness
Speaker 5: in indigenous communities, whether it is people smugglers thumbing their
Speaker 5: nose at our borders, whether it is the return of
Speaker 5: unions on building sites. The level of general lawlessness is increasing.
Speaker 5: And what we've got is a government that is dominated
Speaker 5: by the left, that is basically capitulating and not taking
Speaker 5: strong stands on law and order issues. And that's to
Speaker 5: the detriment of all of us. We've got to have
Speaker 5: liberty in this country, but you can't have liberty.
Speaker 1: Without order, all right, all right, Well, set indeed and
Speaker 1: keep fighting on your judicial inquiry. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for joining me, Julian Lisa. Now coming up that debate
Speaker 1: I promised, Adam Crichton versus Alan Howe on Julian Assanche.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned after this quick break well to debate the
Speaker 1: two sides of the Julian Assange spectrum. Let's bring in
Speaker 1: now the Australians Washington correspondent Adam Crichton and long term
Speaker 1: editor at The Australian, Alan Howe. Welcome to you both. Adam,
Speaker 1: you've got a very different take on mine when it
Speaker 1: comes to Julian Assigne. In fact, you think he should
Speaker 1: be awarded for his commitment to telling the truth. He
Speaker 1: is your hero, Adam Crichton.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, look, I should he should be I think.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's made the world much much better informed.
Speaker 3: He released all of those documents, He published all of
Speaker 3: those documents which someone else gave him. I might add,
Speaker 3: he didn't steal them. Chelsea mang gave him all of
Speaker 3: those cables. And sure it caused a huge amount of
Speaker 3: embarrassment to the US government because we learned that they
Speaker 3: were lying about various things. They're engaging in various activities
Speaker 3: that they shouldn't have been. So sure, you know, if
Speaker 3: the charges is causing embarrassment to the world's most powerful government,
Speaker 3: then that's real. But you know, I think the benefit
Speaker 3: of what he's done is great. And also just to
Speaker 3: point out, I mean, most mainstream newspapers in the US
Speaker 3: have done the same things as the SIMS has done.
Speaker 3: They've published classified information, whether you go back to you know,
Speaker 3: to the Pentagon papers or the Watergate, et cetera. But
Speaker 3: in those cases there wasn't the same level of pursuit
Speaker 3: that we've seen in the case of assamch So And
Speaker 3: I think you know it's partly because he's a foreigner,
Speaker 3: and you know he's maybe a nasty person, some people say,
Speaker 3: but that's all completely irrelevant to you to the case
Speaker 3: at hand.
Speaker 1: Alan, How what do you think of the comments Adam
Speaker 1: Crichton has just made.
Speaker 4: Well, I hope if I've come up in court on
Speaker 4: serious charges that Adam is the judge, he's clearly a
Speaker 4: very bad bloke. He's done some very bad things. He's
Speaker 4: compromised the entire Western alliance of diplomatic cables and communications.
Speaker 4: These are very important effect. We've seen how important they
Speaker 4: are just this year with a couple of terror plots
Speaker 4: being uncovered in Paris and lead up to the Olympic
Speaker 4: seare Now, these are robust, and sometimes they're purole, but
Speaker 4: they transfer information between allied governments in a very important way.
Speaker 4: It was Julian Sanger's ambition to slice that system off
Speaker 4: of the knees to destroy it. Daniel Elsberg who published
Speaker 4: the Pentagon Papers. Now, the Pentagon Papers didn't endanger anyone's life,
Speaker 4: it bruised the egos and Watergate similarly bruised egos. But
Speaker 4: the release of the information by WikiLeaks, you know, I
Speaker 4: mean Julian Sads neither an editor nor a journalist, and
Speaker 4: were either and trained in either, he wouldn't have released
Speaker 4: those willie nilly. But it was the US evidence before
Speaker 4: the court and Woolwich when he broke in his bail,
Speaker 4: that the release of that information has led to two
Speaker 4: of their ages disappearing.
Speaker 1: I did, well, Adam, isn't that right that this was
Speaker 1: a careless document dump that risked lives, It risked sources
Speaker 1: who literally put their life on the line to serve
Speaker 1: our cause.
Speaker 3: Well, look, certainly that argument is often made, but look
Speaker 3: in the fourteen years this stuff's been out there, you know,
Speaker 3: there's basically been no damage at all. So I think
Speaker 3: I think the argument is I mean, sure it's a
Speaker 3: you know, it's a valid theoretical argument, but you know,
Speaker 3: the are those who attack Assans. They claim that, you know,
Speaker 3: he's caused enormous danger for various people, But I just
Speaker 3: don't see that that's been born out in reality. And frankly,
Speaker 3: even if it's true, then that's the price of you know,
Speaker 3: knowing the truth.
Speaker 1: You know, it's an unforceund it can't be the price
Speaker 1: of knowing this gets down to it. You can report
Speaker 1: it in a responsible way. You can remove the names
Speaker 1: of identities, You don't have to publish every single document
Speaker 1: that's in your possession. You can tell the story carefully. Yes, look, yeah, look, I.
Speaker 3: Mean certainly, you know, we can make an argument he
Speaker 3: should have redacted this or should have redacted that. But
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, it's happened, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's been published, it's out there, and so we can
Speaker 3: just analyze what's there. And I just don't think the
Speaker 3: damage has been done that was claimed. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: quite extraordinary.
Speaker 4: Really.
Speaker 3: There's hundreds of thousands of documents, hundreds of thousands of names,
Speaker 3: is my understanding, and you know, there's really not that
Speaker 3: much damage. I mean, I think it comes down to
Speaker 3: a philosophical point of view, and then whether you think
Speaker 3: the state is the master and citizens of the servants
Speaker 3: or not. I mean, I just don't think the government
Speaker 3: should be able to keep all these secrets. You know,
Speaker 3: basically take our money, you know, through taxes, and then
Speaker 3: basically lie to to the taxpayers, and you know, do
Speaker 3: all these crazy things overseas and you know, the argument
Speaker 3: basically just bails down to, well, the US are the
Speaker 3: good guys, so they should be able to.
Speaker 1: That's Adam the argument you're basically but when we do it,
Speaker 1: it's Adam. The argument you're basically running is that we
Speaker 1: should have no classified secrets that we had should not
Speaker 1: have no class Well, because we pay it should be.
Speaker 1: But let's bring Alan, Let's bring Alan how back in
Speaker 1: on this. Alan, you've written extensively about assign's history. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us in a concise way some of his
Speaker 1: some parts of his questionable background.
Speaker 4: Well, he committed crimes in Melbourne in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 4: and the judge was very lenient to him, saying that
Speaker 4: pretty much saying, look, he was just seeking self aggrandizement.
Speaker 4: Wasn't criminal activity, even though it was a crime, and
Speaker 4: he could easily have gone to jail back then in
Speaker 4: the later nineties. His behavior, well, he broke the Bail
Speaker 4: Act in the UK. It's a very serious crime. And
Speaker 4: I think it's ironic that Bradley Manning became Chelsea Manning,
Speaker 4: became became a female, but manned up and faced those
Speaker 4: charges twenty two charges she pleaded guilty to. Ten was
Speaker 4: convicted of seventeen and one of them was aiding the enemy.
Speaker 4: Now you can't just say that. Let's dispose the idea
Speaker 4: that julianasane as a journalist. Of course he's not. No
Speaker 4: one considers just irresponsibly downloading hundreds of thousands of documents
Speaker 4: onto website. That's not journalism. Never has me And people
Speaker 4: may have lost their lives, almost certainly did. We won't
Speaker 4: know who they are because we didn't know who they
Speaker 4: were then. And he hated enemies, he particularlyated any enemy
Speaker 4: of the United States. A lot of people said, oh,
Speaker 4: he hasn't committed a crime there, you know, why should
Speaker 4: he be facing charges there will? In fact, he did
Speaker 4: commit crimes against the US system. He did aid the
Speaker 4: enemies of the US, and the enemies of the US
Speaker 4: are our enemies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed they are. I wish we had more time
Speaker 1: for today. We've just completely out of time. We'll get
Speaker 1: you back on both of you perhaps in the future.
Speaker 1: Adam Crichton, Alan Howe really appreciate it. Thank you very much. Now,
Speaker 1: just before we go to a break, some wonderful news. Now,
Speaker 1: our regular Sky News guest and colleague journalist at Jenna
Speaker 1: Clark has welcomed a beautiful baby boy with her partner
Speaker 1: Chris Dott. Louis was born on Thursday night in Perth
Speaker 1: Weagh nearly three point four kilograms. Is very sweet as
Speaker 1: you can see here, and both Ja and Chris are
Speaker 1: thrilled to bits with the new addition to their family.
Speaker 1: And I hope both of you enjoy every moment of
Speaker 1: this special time in the baby bubble. And don't worry.
Speaker 1: As far as I know, no one has ever died
Speaker 1: from a lack of sleep. But seriously, there's nothing that
Speaker 1: brings more happiness to the heart than a little newborn snuggle.
Speaker 1: And don't we neat joy in our lives right now?
Speaker 1: Congratulations to you both. Now after the break, allegations continue
Speaker 1: to evolve Channel nine, Sophie Elsworth will join me next.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. Let's bring in the Australians and
Speaker 1: media writers. Sophie Elsworth. Now, Sophie, great to see you. Look,
Speaker 1: let's turn first to the comments from Fairfax former owner
Speaker 1: John B. Fairfax, who was an owner of the Citney
Speaker 1: Morning Herald, which is obviously now merged with Channel nine,
Speaker 1: and he spoke out about the scandal that's been engulfing
Speaker 1: nine what did he have to say? That's right, Charry.
Speaker 13: He spoke to my colleague James Madden, resulting in this
Speaker 13: fallout from Channel nine, and basically said that it cast
Speaker 13: a shadow over media ethics, this whole disaster with nine,
Speaker 13: these allegations of misconduct and inappropriate behavior by staff at
Speaker 13: the network, and he said it's bad for the company
Speaker 13: and bad for the company's governance. Now a lot of
Speaker 13: people still associate Fairfax with nine, although that it is
Speaker 13: no longer, people still get confused and think it is
Speaker 13: part of nine. But these are pretty cutting words from
Speaker 13: a mister Fairfax, given he was involved with newspapers, with
Speaker 13: the newspaper element of what is now nine for such
Speaker 13: a long time, and Charry's you and I both know
Speaker 13: this saga that is engulfed nine Entertainment is far from over,
Speaker 13: with that independent review well underway.
Speaker 1: Indeed, So let's talk about that now, the external review.
Speaker 1: Many women are coming forward with their own stories allegations
Speaker 1: of harassment, bullying, sexual harassment as well. At nine. You've
Speaker 1: been reporting on this. What can you tell us about
Speaker 1: how extensive this process is?
Speaker 13: Well, Sharry, it appears from what I have gathered in
Speaker 13: my colleague James Madden. This appears to be an extensive
Speaker 13: problem of inappropriate behavior, all allegations. Of course at the network.
Speaker 13: It's not just in the news division. There's people coming
Speaker 13: forward to in other parts of the business, Sharry, and
Speaker 13: a lot of women very very concerned even to go
Speaker 13: to you know, present their story to the review.
Speaker 1: They're worried about.
Speaker 13: Their anonymity, and people won't come forward. We have not
Speaker 13: got nine staffers, former or you know, current staffers to
Speaker 13: come on the record to speak of their time there,
Speaker 13: apart from Kerry Anne Kenneley who spoke to my colleague
Speaker 13: James Madden. People are fearing for their jobs over this, Sharry.
Speaker 13: This is such a frightening situation for many people to
Speaker 13: speak up.
Speaker 1: I mean many women are speaking out, no question, but
Speaker 1: just not on the record because they are worried about
Speaker 1: their jobs. Sophie, we've been covering Julian Assange tonight. Of
Speaker 1: course he will now be free. The left is celebrating
Speaker 1: him as a journalist, but he only did a document dump.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is journalism?
Speaker 13: Well, Sharry, I agree with your editorial on this tonight.
Speaker 13: I would really doubt that you describe Julian Assange as
Speaker 13: a journalist. I think that's a pretty loose description of
Speaker 13: a journalist, although a lot of people do tend to
Speaker 13: call themselves journalists today if they just turn a computer
Speaker 13: on and write a few words. But look, I'm just
Speaker 13: glad Shari, like many people, that this case appears to
Speaker 13: be coming to an end, because it's a saga that
Speaker 13: has gone on for far.
Speaker 1: Too long in my view. I mean, he won the
Speaker 1: Gold Walkley Award, the highest award in journalism. They gave
Speaker 1: it to Julian Assigned several years ago. I mean, what
Speaker 1: does they say about the credibility of the Walkleys.
Speaker 13: Well, Shari, it sort of shows that the Walkleys have
Speaker 13: become a bit of a farce. Really, they're heavily skewed left.
Speaker 13: They parade the ABC and many journalists there. They don't
Speaker 13: really like conservative journalism, and I don't think the Walkles
Speaker 13: is what it once used to be with some of
Speaker 13: the things that's happened with the Walkleys over the years.
Speaker 1: I mean, just this year there was a pro Palestinian
Speaker 1: activist as co host. I mean, the Book of the
Speaker 1: Year was given to a book that was strongly anti Israel.
Speaker 1: This is an objective journalism and Also, Shari, don't forget
Speaker 1: they dumped their sponsors. They're no longer working with Ampole
Speaker 1: of the sponsors they had outrage over that. It's become
Speaker 1: more of a political outfit in some ways, and I
Speaker 1: think it damages what has been very highly regarded in
Speaker 1: journalism for a very long time. All Right, indeed, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. I'll see everyone at
Speaker 1: home tomorrow at eight. Don't miss the show. A former
Speaker 1: hostage will be on live. But right now, here's Paul Murray.