WEBVTT - The Trial: Detective v defence

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<v Speaker 1>In the days following the deadly mushroom lunch, passwords were

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<v Speaker 1>put in place around hospitals and specialist divisions of Victoria.

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<v Speaker 1>Police were briefed they knew the storm that was about

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<v Speaker 1>to descend upon that.

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<v Speaker 2>Three people are dead and one man is fighting for

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<v Speaker 2>his life this morning after a suspected mushroom poison A

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<v Speaker 2>suspected mushroom poisoning inside where victims are from is a

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<v Speaker 2>really small town, just five thousand people.

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<v Speaker 1>In another day of his testimony, Stephen Eppingstaal took to

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<v Speaker 1>the stand to talk about dealing with the media a Noki,

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<v Speaker 1>your phone, diet books, subway footage and Facebook messages. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Brook Greenbert Craig, and this is the mushroom cook. It's

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<v Speaker 1>day twenty two of Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and once

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<v Speaker 1>again I'm joined by my colleague, court reporter Laura Pistol.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't believe we're nearing the end of week five.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we are. So it was quite a bitsy day

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<v Speaker 1>in court today. Detective Leading Senior Constable Stephen Eppingstall returned

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<v Speaker 1>to the sten and gave evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>His cross examination continued and defense barrister Colin Mandy really

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<v Speaker 2>took him through a number of topics, some of which

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<v Speaker 2>we flagged at the top of the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with the media coverage.

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<v Speaker 2>This was a topic Constable epping Stall was asked about

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<v Speaker 2>very early on today. Mister Mandy asked him whether or

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<v Speaker 2>not he agreed that there was significant media interest in

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<v Speaker 2>this case from very early on in the investigation. He agreed,

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<v Speaker 2>and he explained to the court that he briefed the

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<v Speaker 2>Victoria Police media unit and holding lines were prepared. He

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<v Speaker 2>also told the court that passwords were put in place

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<v Speaker 2>at the hospitals where the guests were being treated. He

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<v Speaker 2>said by August five, a week after the lunch, the

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<v Speaker 2>media were well and truly reporting on this case.

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<v Speaker 1>The jury heard that a media release was issued on

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<v Speaker 1>August six, confirming the homicide squad were investigating three deaths.

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<v Speaker 1>Constable epping Stall said a press conference was held on

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<v Speaker 1>all August seven with Detective Inspector Dean Thomas. Mister Mandy

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<v Speaker 1>then asked him whether the media were camped outside Aaron's

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<v Speaker 1>property and lean Gatha, including inside her property, and he replied, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>they did go into her property, but.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all that was really said about the media and

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<v Speaker 2>mister Mandy moved on to a different topic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, let's talk about the search warrant that was done

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<v Speaker 1>at Aaron's home on August five. We touched on this

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<v Speaker 1>in yesterday's episode, So Laura, can you tell us what

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<v Speaker 1>more we heard about it in court today.

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<v Speaker 2>So mister Mandy really used this part of today's cross

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<v Speaker 2>examination to try to pick holes in the police investigation.

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<v Speaker 2>The court heard today that Erin was not given any

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<v Speaker 2>notice of the search warrant. On August five, police arrived

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<v Speaker 2>at her house, told her what the warrant was in

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<v Speaker 2>connection to, and began their search. Mister Mandy asked Constable

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<v Speaker 2>Eppingstall about Erin's wabouts during the search, and he said

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<v Speaker 2>for the majority of the time she remained with him

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<v Speaker 2>unless she needed to go to the bathroom when one

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<v Speaker 2>of his female colleagues would take over. He told the

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<v Speaker 2>court that Erin was allowed to retain her phone because

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<v Speaker 2>she needed to make some arrangements in relation to her children.

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<v Speaker 2>He also explained that at one point Erin was given

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<v Speaker 2>permission to contact a lawyer from a room at the

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<v Speaker 2>front of her house with the door closed. Mister Mandy

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<v Speaker 2>asked whether or not this was for a period of

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen minutes, and Constable Eppingstall replied that it was his

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<v Speaker 2>recollection that it was about twenty minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>He was then specifically asked questions about a Nochi your phone.

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<v Speaker 1>Constable Eppingstall said he had a conversation with Erin about

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<v Speaker 1>that device during her record of interview. He confirmed it

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<v Speaker 1>was not located and therefore not seized.

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<v Speaker 2>During this part of the cross examination, Constable Eppingstall was

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<v Speaker 2>asked about a number of devices and whether or not

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<v Speaker 2>they were seized. He confirmed again today in that another

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<v Speaker 2>phone that has been referred to in this case that

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<v Speaker 2>has been called Phone A, was also never located by police.

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<v Speaker 2>To refresh our listener's memories, this is the phone that

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<v Speaker 2>police say Erin used in the lead up to the

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<v Speaker 2>lunch with a SIM card that she had been using

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<v Speaker 2>for a number of years. Constable Eppingstall told the court

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday that phone record showed that this simcard was taken

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<v Speaker 2>out of Phone A on August five at one forty

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<v Speaker 2>five pm, that is the time of the search warrant,

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<v Speaker 2>and placed into another phone, that being a Nokia. It

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<v Speaker 2>was at this point that Constable epping stare was taken

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<v Speaker 2>to a photo that was captured during the search warrant

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<v Speaker 2>by police. It was a photo of an ottoman in

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron's house that was covered in charging chords and what

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<v Speaker 2>appeared to be devices. Mister Mandy pointed to one of

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<v Speaker 2>these devices on the ottoman and asked Constable epping Stall,

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<v Speaker 2>can I suggest that is Phone A in a case?

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<v Speaker 2>But Constable Eppingstall said he did not agree, saying that

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<v Speaker 2>if that device was a phone, it would have been

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<v Speaker 2>seized by police.

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<v Speaker 1>And just to summarize what Laura said, Phone A and

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<v Speaker 1>the Nokia phone were both not located or seized by police.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister Mandy had more questions for Constable epping Stall about

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<v Speaker 2>items not seized from Erin's home. He showed Constable epping

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<v Speaker 2>Stall a photo, again taken during the search warrant from

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<v Speaker 2>the study, which he also called the Lego room. Mister

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<v Speaker 2>Mandy claimed that two laptops could be seen in that photo,

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<v Speaker 2>but Constable epping Stall replied, if their laptops, this is

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<v Speaker 2>the first I'm learning of these items, reiterating to mister

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<v Speaker 2>Mandy that during the search he was with Erin and

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<v Speaker 2>was not looking for items himself, leaving that to his colleagues.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, let's move on to Erin's bank records.

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<v Speaker 2>This was a very brief exchange, but mister Mandy quizzed

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<v Speaker 2>Constable epping Stall about how many months of Erin's bank

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<v Speaker 2>records police had obtained. The court heard they had obtained

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<v Speaker 2>records from July one, twenty twenty three, through to August four.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister Mandy asked Constable Epping's no other periods of time.

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<v Speaker 2>He replied, no, and I can't explain why we didn't

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<v Speaker 2>go back further. Some of her bank records were then

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<v Speaker 2>shown to the court, specifically in relation to the troops

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<v Speaker 2>she made to a BP in Coldermeaede and a Doughnut van.

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<v Speaker 2>Later that same day.

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<v Speaker 1>On the topic of records, Constable epping Stall was questioned

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<v Speaker 1>about the analysis of Aaron's phone records conducted by digital

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<v Speaker 1>forensics expert doctor Matthew Serell.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's been a while since we've spoken

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<v Speaker 2>about doctor Cerel's evidence, and today we got back into

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<v Speaker 2>the nitty gritties of it. Earlier in the trial, doctor

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<v Speaker 2>Soerell told the jury that he was provided years of

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<v Speaker 2>call charge records from a phone belonging to Erin, as

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<v Speaker 2>well as about twenty days of what are called event

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<v Speaker 2>based Monitoring records or EBM. For sure, these EBM records

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<v Speaker 2>provide very granular detail, he said. And today Constable epping

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<v Speaker 2>Stall was asked why police only obtained days of these

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<v Speaker 2>records to give to doctor Serrell, and in response, Constable

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<v Speaker 2>epping Stall spoke quite a lot about how costly these

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<v Speaker 2>records actually are to obtain, and he said to the jury,

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<v Speaker 2>to get EBMs for a year we would be talking

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<v Speaker 2>well into six figures. And my boss isn't real keen

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<v Speaker 2>when I spend too much money. That comment from him

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<v Speaker 2>definitely prompted some laughs from the courtroom, and he went

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<v Speaker 2>on to say that the police have to be really

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<v Speaker 2>selective and targeted when it comes to these EBM records.

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<v Speaker 1>The jury also found out how Constable epping Stall found

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<v Speaker 1>out about I Naturalist, and this was after a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with doctor Tom May when they were just generally speaking

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<v Speaker 1>about death cap mushrooms. Doctor May went on to tell

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<v Speaker 1>him that he had actually cited death caps in Outrim

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<v Speaker 1>in May twenty twenty three, and he posted this sighting

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<v Speaker 1>to the citizen website I Naturalists.

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<v Speaker 2>There have been several clips of CCTV footage tended in

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<v Speaker 2>this trial and today Constable epping Stall was quizzed about

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<v Speaker 2>another one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, he was asked about CCTV footage obtained from a

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<v Speaker 1>subway store in leen Gatha on the night of that

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<v Speaker 1>deadly lunch. He told the court on Tuesday, the footage

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<v Speaker 1>shows Aeron dropping off her son at seven twenty two

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<v Speaker 1>pm and picking him up eleven minutes later. But in

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<v Speaker 1>court today three images were shown to the jury. The

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<v Speaker 1>first one was of Erin's son, the second one was

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<v Speaker 1>the still of a boy from inside subway, and the

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<v Speaker 1>third image was of another photo of Eron's son. Mister

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<v Speaker 1>Mandy suggested to Constable epping Stool that that boy depicted

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<v Speaker 1>inside subway in the second photo was not Eron's son.

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<v Speaker 1>He replied, I believe it to be him, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a matter for the jury.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was really all that was said about the

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<v Speaker 2>subway before mister Mandy took Constable epping Stall to another topic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, more messages were shown to the jury between Aaron

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<v Speaker 1>and her online friends. The jury heard there were around

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and eighty six pages of messages from this

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<v Speaker 1>group chat that had been extracted by police.

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<v Speaker 2>To jog our listener's memories. These are the messages that

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<v Speaker 2>Erin was having with these online friends that concerned her

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<v Speaker 2>estranged husband, Simon and his parents Don Gale, in the

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<v Speaker 2>context of the child support dispute that she was having

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<v Speaker 2>with him. The jury has previously been shown quite a

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<v Speaker 2>number of these, but today mister Mandy tended more of

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<v Speaker 2>those messages. This is what Aaron writes in one exchange.

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<v Speaker 2>It's her words, it's not her voice. I suspect the

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<v Speaker 2>best thing I can do is just forget about all

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<v Speaker 2>of them and live my life. Simon is probably loving

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<v Speaker 2>how upset I am about all of this. In response,

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<v Speaker 2>one of her friends replies, I'm so sorry, Erin. It's

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<v Speaker 2>so funny hard when you're not believed or understood. I

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<v Speaker 2>went through similar with my ex in laws. Mister Mandy

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<v Speaker 2>asked Constable Eppingstall whether he agreed that there was an

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<v Speaker 2>enormous amount of context surrounding these messages. Mister Mandy also

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<v Speaker 2>on to suggest that this was a group chat where

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<v Speaker 2>a number of the participants were talking in similar ways,

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<v Speaker 2>venting to each other about their lives, and Constable Eppingstall

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<v Speaker 2>said that was a fair assessment.

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<v Speaker 1>Lastly, the purchasing of diet books were briefly mentioned in

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<v Speaker 1>court today. Once again we didn't get a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>of context about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Mister Mandy mentioned today that Erin's weight was recorded when

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<v Speaker 2>she was admitted to Lea and Gatha Hospital on July

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<v Speaker 2>thirty one. After that, he told the court that police

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<v Speaker 2>had obtained Erin's receipts from the online bookstore book Topia.

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<v Speaker 2>He then asked Constable epping Stare whether he agreed that

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<v Speaker 2>a large number of the books Erin had purchased related

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<v Speaker 2>to diets. He said that was correct. At the end

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<v Speaker 2>of the day today, Justice Christopher Beale told the jury

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<v Speaker 2>that there was an issue that needed sorting out before

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<v Speaker 2>mister Mandy could continue the rest of his cross examination

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<v Speaker 2>with Constable epping Stall, so it's expected that he will

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<v Speaker 2>return to the witness box tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 1>To stay updated on the case, go to the mushroomcook

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<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au MHM